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Prime Time Crime PT 1 - Buried Bones - a historical true crime podcast with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Prime Time Crime PT 1

Buried Bones - a historical true crime podcast with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes

Wed Jul 09 2025

Summary

Buried Bones – “Prime Time Crime Pt 1”

Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson & Paul Holes
Date: July 9, 2025
Episode Focus: The 1978 murder of TV star Bob Crane in Scottsdale, Arizona – a deep forensic and historical dive, exploring the case’s complexities, the victim’s controversial life, and the investigative missteps that followed.

Main Theme

The episode kicks off a two-part exploration of the unsolved murder of Bob Crane, famed star of Hogan’s Heroes. With journalist Kate Winkler Dawson and cold case investigator Paul Holes, the case is re-examined with a modern forensic lens, investigating what went wrong in the original inquiry, the sensational and complicated personal life of the victim, and the pool of possible suspects.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Anecdotes & Setting the Stage

Birds and Influence: Kate describes a family of birds nesting at her home, segueing into a discussion about habits passed down from parents. Paul reminisces about his father’s influence on his lifelong workout routine.
- [04:11–07:54] “...starting at like, age 12, I started lifting weights, you know, and that just kind of has stuck with me.” – Paul Holes.

2. 1970s Background & Crime Scene

Scottsdale, AZ in 1978: Known for affluence, heat, and relative safety, police in the area weren’t seasoned in handling major crimes.
Victim Introduction: Bob Crane, former star of Hogan’s Heroes, was working a dinner theater run in Scottsdale.
- [09:49] “We’re going to the 70s and we’re going to Arizona and Scottsdale. And this is a very big case. So it’s a two parter for us.” – Kate.

3. Discovery of the Body [22:24–33:59]

Victoria Berry’s Discovery: Co-star Victoria Berry finds Bob Crane dead in his apartment after he failed to answer the door. She describes a shocking, bloody scene, with Crane in bed, bludgeoned and tied with an electrical cord.
- [28:52] “At first I thought it was a girl with long dark hair because all the blood had turned real dark. The whole wall was covered from one end to the other with blood.” – Kate reading Victoria’s account.
Paul’s Forensic Analysis:
- Lack of blood smears or sign of struggle suggests Crane was likely killed while sleeping or otherwise incapacitated.
- Two linear head wounds, likely caused by a blunt object.
- Blood spatter and patterns suggest minimal post-attack movement.
- The electrical cord was tied post-mortem, likely to guarantee death.
  - [34:43] “This is a common thing...the offender...doesn’t know if [the victim] is dead or not and is making sure...by applying a ligature.” – Paul.

4. Crime Scene Investigation Flaws [39:20–41:54]

Police Inexperience:
- Scottsdale PD lacked a homicide unit, didn’t secure the crime scene, allowed Victoria to remain, and the medical examiner disturbed evidence improperly.
- [40:13] “...as you started talking about Scottsdale...they may have been in over their head. 1978 Scottsdale PD, it’s possible...medical examiner–why is a pathologist climbing all over this bed? That’s a no-no.” – Paul

5. Key Suspect: John Carpenter [44:36–48:19]

Phone Calls Raise Suspicion:
- Within hours of the discovery, a man named John Carpenter (not the director, but a close friend of Crane’s) calls the apartment. He’d been with Crane the previous night, then left for LA. His lack of curiosity when told something had happened raises police suspicion.
- [46:35] “Do you think that not asking what this incident was...should be alarming? He had just been with this guy 12 hours earlier...” – Kate
- [47:41] “That would make it suspicious if there was some sort of messaging...that Carpenter should have picked up on.” – Paul
Timeline Problems:
- Carpenter’s shifting account of what time he left Crane (initially 1am, later 2:45am) puts him in the likely time of death window.

6. Sex, Videotape, and Motive [50:58–56:03]

Shocking Discoveries:
- Police find hundreds of nude photos and videos of Crane having sex with women, some with knowledge, some not. Electronics expert Carpenter had set up the equipment.
- Possibility of commercial or blackmail motive is raised.
- [52:00] “Are they producing porn? Is this a business venture?...Is there any type of sexual paraphilia, unusual sex acts that they are filming?” – Paul
Hauling the Evidence:
- The sizable cache was surprising given Crane’s short stay in Scottsdale; it’s unclear whether he transported all the material from LA.

7. Additional Suspects

Wife & Jealous Exes:
- Crane’s tumultuous marriage and serial infidelity are discussed. A local woman’s jealous ex and her boyfriend (with a similar car to a reported sighting) are noted, but neither emerges as a strong suspect.
Targeted Attack, Not Robbery:
- No valuables stolen; only missing item is a tripod, suggesting a focused, personal motive.

8. Forensic Limitations [58:44–61:30]

Paul cautions:
- The absence of forced entry isn’t proof the victim knew the killer. Forced entry could have occurred with no external damage (e.g., a push-in or a weapon).
- [61:15] “So that’s where it’s hard to draw a firm conclusion. Oh, Crane must’ve known the offender and let him in...” – Paul

Notable Quotes

On Forensic Crime Scenes:
- “What Victoria is seeing is spatter, which comes from the blows to his head... to the inexperienced person... that may be overwhelming.” – Paul Holes [30:23]
- “Climbing all over the bed? That’s a no-no…” – Paul Holes, criticizing the medical examiner [40:13]
On Crane’s Lifestyle:
- “Now they say this guy’s a pervert and has got some pretty big issues...” – Kate [56:03]
- “Are they producing porn? Is this a business venture?” – Paul [52:00]
On Police Focus & Flawed Inquiry:
- “The Scottsdale PD does get a little bit of praise for just, for trying to sort through this scene...” – Kate [41:54]
- “It’s a cluster. None of this should be happening.” – Paul [40:47]
Episodic Hook:
- “This case is turning out to be more interesting than what I realized.” – Paul Holes [62:16]

Important Timestamps

04:11–07:54: Personal connections, generational habits
09:49–13:00: The 1970s setting, victim profile
22:24–29:05: Victoria Berry discovers the body
29:05–34:05: Paul’s forensic blood spatter analysis
34:05–37:23: Cord tied around Crane’s neck; forensic reconstruction
39:20–41:54: Investigation missteps
44:36–50:03: John Carpenter’s calls and shifting timeline
50:58–56:03: Discovery of sex tapes, implications for motive
58:44–61:30: Alternative suspect possibilities, critique of police focus

Memorable Moments

Paul’s forensic walkthrough – a play-by-play on interpreting blood patterns and crime scene photos, demystifying what “blood everywhere” actually means in context.
Kate’s pop culture/generation reflections – relating the emotional impact of learning TV heroes aren’t always as they appear.
Discussion of the sensational elements – clandestine videotaping, consent, and questions about sexual addiction, especially by today’s standards.

Overall Tone and Flow

The episode is a spirited and empathetic exchange blending Paul’s insightful crime scene expertise with Kate’s storytelling and journaling instincts. Both probe the assumptions of the original investigation, patiently untangling facts from supposition, and resisting sensationalism in favor of evidence.

The hosts maintain a conversational, friendly tone, occasionally injecting humor and expressing wonder at the period’s attitudes and investigative gaps. The complex, human side of the case—victim flaws, police inexperience, the wild social whirl of the 1970s—remains ever-present.

To Be Continued…

Part 1 ends with the case at an impasse: John Carpenter is the leading suspect, but other possibilities linger. With the promise of more revelations regarding Bob Crane’s life and legacy—plus further investigation of Carpenter—the hosts tease even deeper mysteries for Part 2.

“Don’t Google anything about Bob Crane.” Kate [62:34]

For more case documents and images, visit @buriedbonespod on Instagram.

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Transcript

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Paul Holes (30:23)

Well, I can see, you know, the one photo that's an overall photo that shows him laying on the bed and shows the wall behind him, you know, towards the wall that's towards the head of the bed. I am seeing what is likely blood spatter. And so that's, you know, maybe to the inexperienced person who's not used to seeing, you know, a homicide scene, that may be very overwhelming to see a fair amount of blood spatter that is up on the wall. But it's not like this room. Like there's just been this huge battle between two combatants that are bleeding and there's blood smears and furniture overturned. No, you know, this appears that it's very akin to possibly, you know, he was asleep and somebody came in and bludgeoned him. And there's no fight whatsoever. And the, the blood that Victoria is seeing is. Is spatter, which comes from the blows to his head. So when we start talking, you know, blood patterns, blood spatter occurs when there's a pooled blood source. So imagine if you have, let's say, a, a puddle, right, and you stomp in that puddle. Now you can get spatial with Bob Crane's head, he's going to have to have received a blow that would cause blood to pool in a wound. So that first blow does not create spatter. But now that he's bleeding, the second blow and the third blow potentially could produce the spatter that I somewhat seeing on the wall behind him. The pillow behind him is interesting. There's a very large blood stain on that pillow. That pillow has been moved by the time this photo was taken. And let me just at other photos just to see if it shows the pillow in a different position. So that very large blood stain on the pillow suggests that it was closer and possibly had had been up against his head or his head had been on it at one point after he bled. I would need to see more in terms of his injuries and the blood patterns to determine what the final resting position of that pillow was when the offender left the crime scene. But in essence, you know, he's received at least, you know, several blows. I'm seeing, you know, hemorrhaging to his left eye that suggests that, you know, he's got skull fracture, he's got, you know, cerebral hemorrhaging occurring. You know, it's possible orbital fractures. And so now you see the, you know, the extent, obviously this is a fatal bludgeoning. I don't know how many blows at this point or what the weapon is. There is a photo of what appears to be two linear blood deposits. I believe that's on top of the. Yeah, that's on the bed. That's on the edge of the bed with a ruler, suggesting that these linear blood deposits are roughly. One is roughly 8 inches long, the other is possibly 12 inches long. The shape of this linear shape. Shape possibly could be from the weapon. Let's say the weapon is something akin to a baseball bat or a, a wood dowel. And after inflicting the blows, the blood being transferred onto the weapon, it was placed on this bed sheet maybe twice. This linear blood pattern is too indistinct to draw any conclusion as to, well, what is the weapon, if that's even from the weapon. But right now, that would be my, my initial assessment.

Kate Winkler Dawson (41:54)

The Scottsdale PD does get a little bit of praise for just, for trying to, to sort through this scene. Nothing's missing, as I had mentioned before. Nothing of value at least, except for this tripod. They don't find any signs of forced entry. The front door was unlocked. And the sliding glass door that leads to this pool, this public pool, are both unlocked, locked. Okay, so Bob was a security freak in the 70s. He locks his doors, which sometimes we didn't lock our doors in the 70s. Definitely not when we were on our farm. So that makes of course investigators think that the killer knew him. Perhaps it was a friend. Of course they're going to look at the young woman who was coming to his house. So, you know, there's a. A lot of possibilities, but this is where they're heading so far. They think that the killer fled through the front door after killing Bob. And I'll tell you why. So there's a reporter named John Hook who I'll mention several times. He ends up writing a book about this. And he says that there were small spots of blood on the inside doorknob and the lock. There's a coroner's report that suggests that he died between 3am and 8am but likely closer to 3am him. Let's get to our first suspect. And it is not Victoria. Victoria is never considered a suspect at all. So around 3:15. So she finds him around 2. She calls the police around 3:15, Victoria is giving the police her statement in the kitchen. She hung out for quite a long time there. I mean, okay, sorry. I'm sure they learned a lesson with that. Although I don't know if she disturbed anything. But still, you know, you're right. All of the blood deposits and everything. She's in the kitchen and the phone rings. His home phone. On a hunch that Bob's killer could be calling to figure out what's going on, there is a police detendant who says, go ahead and answer the phone, but don't say anything about Bob's death. She picks up the phone and the person on the other end is a guy named John Carpenter. Not the horror film director, but a different John Carpenter. So Bob and John are friends and Victoria knows John. And John works in sales for some big electronics companies. So he works for Sony and Kenwood. And he's got some big celebrity clients, including Bob. That's how they met. And I just thought to myself, I did not know that celebrities needed a electronics go to guy. Maybe they do.

Kate Winkler Dawson (56:03)

That's a lot of equipment and all of that. And it says it looks likely that he was just there. It could have been even just for a few weeks. We don't know. So let me, let me go through and tell you some other stuff that's going on here. So now they say this guy's a pervert and has got some pretty big issues. And of course, John Carpenter, being his electronics guy, is going to get pulled into this. So they start asking questions about his wife, who is an actress named Patricia Olsen, who goes by Patty. Marriage was on the rocks. She knows all about his serial cheating. She says that the two had actually tried to. In their marriage. They were going to, but. And they had been talking about this, it sounds like, for a while, because he was cheating and she was tired of it. I don't know if she knows about all these photos and videos. I don't know if she's one of the people on these photos or videos. So then she says, and this is where John's involvement could come in. According to the police, she says that they were recently reconciling. They wanted to make the relationship work. That he went into therapy trying to get a handle on what is described in, I think, the newspaper reporting as a sex addiction. I don't even know if they used that phrase in the 70s in therapy maybe. In any case, the police don't consider her a viable suspect. She's not there. And, you know, I'm sure she was shocked about hearing about these 500 photo videos happening. Bob had slept with another suspect, a Scottsdale woman who had a really jealous ex boyfriend at One point, this guy taped a mutilated newspaper photograph of Bob Crane to his ex girlfriend's back door after this guy found out that she was sleeping with Bob Crane. But the man, you know, who's not named by reporters, isn't ever really considered a strong self. There are also reports from a furniture mover who says that police saw a man leaving Bob's apartment that morning, June 29th, and he was found at 2:00 later that day. According to this tipster, the man had left the scene in a white Cadillac with a California license plate. So I will say I'll put this one more thing in here. Victoria, the Victoria, her boyfriend, who she ends up marrying later on is a guy named Alan Walter Wells. He drove a white Cadillac with California plates, although probably in the 70s, you could throw a rock and hit one of those. He was never tied to this. So, I mean, this is, what I'm saying is there's this array of people, plus every woman who, you know, found out that he was a sleazebag, who.