Buried Bones: “Prime Time Crime PT 2”
Podcast: Buried Bones
Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson & Paul Holes
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Episode Summary:
In this second part of their deep dive into the murder of TV star Bob Crane, journalist Kate Winkler Dawson and retired investigator Paul Holes dissect the intricacies—and the failures—of the investigation into the infamous 1978 Scottsdale, Arizona case. Through forensic hindsight and modern investigative expertise, the hosts re-examine evidence, suspects, and police decisions, debating whether justice was ever really possible in Crane’s unsolved murder.
Episode Overview
Kate and Paul continue their exploration of Bob Crane's mysterious death, focusing intently on the evidence against the prime suspect, John Carpenter, as well as the forensic and investigative missteps that hampered the case. Through insightful discussion and expert analysis, they reflect on what might have been if the case were handled with today’s standards, painting a vivid portrait of the pitfalls of 1970s policing and how vital proper evidence collection and open-minded investigation are to achieving justice.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Recap and Context of Bob Crane’s Murder
- Bob Crane, former TV star, was found brutally murdered in 1978, Scottsdale, Arizona.
- Circumstances: Discovered by a co-star in his apartment, hit twice on the head, cord from a VCR wrapped around his neck. Scene was very bloody, no signs of forced entry.
(05:10–06:50) - Crane’s secret life: Large volume of sexual material and equipment found, suggesting a hidden, possibly dangerous lifestyle.
2. Autopsy Details and Missed Forensic Opportunities
- Autopsy findings: Abundant dried blood, suspected semen-like substance on Crane’s body (never tested).
“Police later theorized the killer may have masturbated over Crane’s dead body... but it was a theory. And they never tested the semen."
— Kate Winkler Dawson (07:08) - Paul criticizes inadequate evidence collection, especially the failure to gather sexual evidence from Crane’s body and bedsheets.
“There’s all sorts of DNA from these various sexual encounters…so you need to collect that evidence up front.”
— Paul Holes (08:17) - Discussion on the limitations of 1970’s investigative practice and missed avenues for identifying possible perpetrators through evidence on scene.
3. John Carpenter: Relationship & Motive
- Police zero in on Carpenter: Electronics salesman, close friend to Crane, provider of video equipment, and participant in sexual exploits.
(12:52–18:02) - Crane’s son suggests Carpenter had become a “pain in the ass” to Bob, who was considering distancing himself—potential motive for Carpenter.
- Carpenter and Crane: Transactional relationship—Crane gets electronics for his hobby, Carpenter gets access to Crane’s Hollywood lifestyle and women.
- Carpenter’s shifting alibi: “He’s unaccounted for from 3am until 8am when he checks out of the hotel and goes to the airport. So there’s this five hour window... he could have absolutely carried out this murder for sure.”
— Kate Winkler Dawson (17:18)
4. Forensic Evidence in the Rental Car
- Scottsdale police focus on Carpenter’s rental Chrysler Cordoba (similar to eyewitness descriptions, a possible white Cadillac).
(20:26–24:43) - Blood stains and potential tissue found in the rental car (passenger door, power window switch), but investigators failed to adequately collect or preserve bio-evidence.
“They took a photo of it but never collected it.”
— Kate (28:27) - Paul points out the evidence is inconclusive, particularly the supposed “brain matter”:
“This mass could be anything. I literally cannot conclude what it is.”
— Paul Holes (29:08) - Later, ABO blood testing from the car returns as type B (rare, matches Bob Crane), but Paul notes blood type is not conclusive—at best, weakly inclusive:
“Depending on the ethnicity, who knows who’s been bleeding inside this rental car…”
— Paul Holes (34:05)
5. Missed Evidence & Modern DNA Testing
- 1990s: Cold case detective discovers an uncollected biological sample in crime scene photos—leads to Carpenter’s arrest, but only based on photographs.
“That was the brain matter one that you looked at. The point of that photo is that they didn’t keep the evidence. There’s no way of identifying what that actually is.”
— Kate (36:23) - Prosecution’s case collapses at trial in 1994 due to lack of physical evidence and inability to confirm blood/tissue identity.
- Modern DNA testing (2010s): Journalist John Hook submits remaining samples for analysis. Result: DNA does NOT match Bob Crane. Main profile is an unknown male; Bob Crane eliminated.
“If Bob Crane’s blood is inside Carpenter’s rental car, I’m going, okay, yeah, he’s the killer. But if it comes back and it’s not even Bob Crane’s blood, then it’s just spurious, you know, and they got nothing on Carpenter, to be frank.”
— Paul Holes (45:36)
6. Failures of the Investigation
- Police and prosecution heavily criticized for focusing solely on Carpenter and failing to explore other leads or collect/preserve evidence properly.
- Scottsdale PD described as “overmatched” and lacking experience in major crime scene handling.
“This case was not handled right based off of what you told me. But I’m not going to cast … bad things about Scottsdale PD from 1978, but I can guarantee … Phoenix PD has very experienced investigators.”
— Paul Holes (47:08) - Lessons: Agencies should recognize their limitations and seek help from larger or more experienced departments in complex investigations.
7. Takeaways & Reflections
- Kate and Paul critique the consequences of prosecutorial overreach and poor evidence management:
“You take a weak case to court and you get an acquittal, you’re done.”
— Paul Holes (46:00) - The importance of humility and collaboration in police investigations:
“Get over yourself about taking the lead … call in help when you need it.”
— Kate Winkler Dawson (59:11) - The need for rigorous evidence tracking, professionalism, and experience as crime scene standards evolve.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the “brain matter” photo:
“I literally cannot conclude what it is … that doesn’t look like what I have personally witnessed in actual homicide cases where I can test it and know what it is.”
— Paul Holes (39:10–39:44) -
On the significance of weak blood evidence:
“Depending on the ethnicity, who knows who’s been bleeding inside this rental car, Depending on the ethnicity background, one third … could be type B. … All it is is a weak inclusion from a physical evidence (standpoint).”
— Paul Holes (34:05) -
On small-town agencies handling big cases:
“…Agencies need to recognize what they’re good at and when they might want to reach out for help…”
— Paul Holes (47:08) -
On the importance of thorough evidence searches:
“Did you really look… or is your property technician just telling you, ‘there’s nothing on the shelf under that case file number’? Then I’d go, well, you need to go back and you need to look. You didn’t look.”
— Paul Holes (60:29)
Important Timestamps
- 05:10: Recap of Bob Crane’s death, sex addiction, possible motives
- 07:08–08:17: Autopsy findings, untested evidence, critique of forensic process
- 12:52–18:02: Examination of John Carpenter’s relationship with Crane and motive
- 21:29–24:43: Description and critique of crime scene sketch and rental car analysis
- 27:21–30:55: Blood and “tissue” evidence in Carpenter’s rental car—discussion on forensic reliability
- 32:25–36:43: 1990s re-investigation, “brain matter” photo as weak probable cause
- 38:22–41:57: Trial, prosecution’s inability to prove tissue/blood is from Crane
- 45:36–49:42: Modern DNA testing exonerates Carpenter, evidence destroyed/exhausted
- 56:52–59:11: Lessons learned, reflections on police experience, humility, and collaboration
Final Reflection
Kate and Paul leave listeners with cautionary takeaways about historical police work and forensic science. While both believe John Carpenter remains a strong suspect, they agree the failings of the initial investigation and a weak prosecution almost certainly doomed the case to its famous status as an enduring Hollywood mystery. The Bob Crane investigation now stands as a case study on the dire consequences of botched evidence, investigative tunnel vision, and the relentless passage of time in cold cases.
Buried Bones continues to spotlight the intersection of history, expertise, and the evolution of justice—reminding listeners of the high cost when lessons aren’t learned.