Buried Bones Podcast – "Take the Wheel Pt. 1"

Date: May 7, 2025
Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson (journalist, true crime author), Paul Holes (retired cold case investigator)

Episode Overview

In this first installment of a two-part series, Kate and Paul delve into the mysterious 1935 death of Hollywood icon Thelma Todd. Framed by the glamour and secrecy of Golden Age Hollywood, the episode dissects the circumstances surrounding Todd’s sudden death in her luxury car, found in a garage above her seaside café in Pacific Palisades. Leveraging modern forensic theory alongside rich historical context, the hosts probe whether Todd’s demise was suicide, accident, or something more sinister—setting the stage for a deep-dive into Hollywood conspiracy, conflicting autopsies, and gendered power dynamics of the time.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the Case and Thelma Todd

• Background:

  • The setting is Pacific Palisades, California, 1935—an exclusive enclave for Hollywood’s elite (17:14).
  • Thelma Todd: A major film star at 29, known for “Lucy and Ethel”-style slapstick, 120 features and shorts, business ventures, and strong personal presence (17:14–24:25).
  • Todd was pioneering in branding—her “Sidewalk Cafe” used her name, unusual for the time (23:32).
  • Kate watched Todd’s films to “feel a deeper connection to our victim,” underscoring the importance of victimology in historical cold cases (19:58).

  "Who the victim is...sometimes can lead to the investigation to determine who’s responsible."
  —Paul Holes (19:58)

2. The Day of Discovery

• Sequence of Events:
  • Monday, December 16, 1935: Todd’s assistant/housekeeper, Mae, finds Todd dead—slumped over the wheel of her luxury Lincoln in the garage above the house (17:14, 38:15).
  • Mae checks several places, not alarmed initially due to Todd’s active nightlife—but grows concerned when Todd misses work at her bustling café (24:53–27:46).
• Witness & Victimology Discussion:
  • Paul emphasizes the role of those closest to the victim (“law enforcement needs to do a better job listening to the families”—27:46).
  • Importance of routine: Mae’s knowledge of Todd’s habits helps construct timelines and signals when something is “off” (27:46).

3. The Setting and Key Relationships

• Physical Geography:
  • The café/apartment is at the bottom of a steep hillside; Roland West’s house (director, Todd’s lover) is at the top—a difficult climb for Todd, who had a heart condition (34:45).
  • The complex living arrangements:
    • Thelma Todd co-owns the apartment above the café with director/lover Roland West, who still lives with his wife, actress Jewel Carmen. All are business partners (33:11–34:45).
    • Paul flags the "triangle" as potentially a motive source or red flag (33:11).

4. Discovery & Forensic Observations

• The Crime Scene:
  • Todd is discovered wearing her Saturday night gown and mink, with jewelry, consistent with last being seen Saturday night (42:23).
  • Car is off, key in “on” position, unaltered valuables, garage doors closed.
• Immediate Theories:
  • Broken nose and bleeding: Police theorize she fainted and hit her face on the steering wheel (39:10).
  • Paul lists possible causes for flushed complexion and injuries: “Could be carbon monoxide, heart failure, or a violent act like strangulation” (39:59).
• Notable Quote:

  "It is unusual to see a homicide victim just seated in a car, slumped over the steering wheel, if it’s not a gunshot victim."
  —Paul Holes (41:10)

5. Autopsy & Medical Details

• Key Findings:
  • Dr. JP Sampson examines body—concludes death about 12 hours prior (46:21).
  • Coroner offers different estimate: up to 30 hours dead (50:28).
  • Autopsy: Todd’s organs and blood are "scarlet red," and her blood’s 75–80% saturated with carbon monoxide—consistent with carbon monoxide poisoning, not trauma (47:44, 48:11).
• Scientific Context:
  • Paul explains that with old combustion engines, cars will cut off once air is depleted—supporting accidental carbon monoxide poisoning (43:40–45:41).
• Notable Quote:

  "This is almost diagnostic...the question is, is it accidental, is it natural, or was there violence that left her unconscious and then inside the garage?"
  —Paul Holes (48:11)

6. Emerging Questions & Surprises

• Clothing, Timeline, and Access:
  • Clothes unchanged since Saturday night—challenges the time-of-death estimates.
  • Todd had a heart condition, would not have climbed the hill (34:45, 56:04).
  • A driver dropped her at the bottom of the hill after her Saturday night event—so how did her car end up at the top garage, and how did she get there? (56:04)
  • Todd had recently received threats, suggesting possible motive for foul play.
• Manner of Death:
  • Paul: While homicide seems less likely based purely on autopsy, “all types of manners of death are on the table”—suicide, accident, natural causes, homicide (49:49).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On working cold cases:

  "Victimology is huge... sometimes can lead to the investigation to determine who's responsible.”
  —Paul Holes (19:58)

• On Thelma’s business sense:

  “She was one of the first celebrities to use her brand... That was not usual.”
  —Kate Winkler Dawson (23:32)

• On autopsy clues:

  “If the pathologist is doing proper documentation, if he's saying she's been dead for 30 hours, then he should be listing the characteristics.”
  —Paul Holes (54:38)

• On all possible theories:

  “Fundamentally, you've got a fractured nose, bleeding out of the mouth and carbon monoxide poisoning... all types of manners of death potentially are on the table.”
  —Paul Holes (49:49)

• On the mystery's complexity:

  “There are a lot of suspicions about her death. There were a lot of things that investigators thought were really odd and her mother really thought was odd.”
  —Kate Winkler Dawson (54:56)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Thelma Todd’s career, personality, and business ventures: 17:14 – 24:25
• Todd’s relationships and living/ownership arrangements: 31:21 – 34:45
• Discovery of the body and interpreting the scene: 36:20 – 42:23
• Garage, car, and engine technicalities: 43:40 – 45:41
• Autopsy and the carbon monoxide conclusion: 47:44 – 49:49
• Discussing timeline uncertainty and possible scenarios: 50:28 – 52:39
• Cliffhanger—Could it be suicide, accident, or murder? 54:56 – end

Tone & Style

Conversational, accessible yet professional; respectful of the victim while maintaining the classic “whodunit” intrigue. Kate brings warmth, historical context, and empathy; Paul provides methodical modern forensics insights, cutting through speculation with grounded expertise.

Summary & What’s Next

This episode lays out the complicated web around Thelma Todd’s final days—her Hollywood stardom, layered personal relationships, and the forensic ambiguities of her death. With evidence pointing toward carbon monoxide poisoning but plenty of murkiness around her last movements (particularly how she and her car ended up at Roland West’s garage), Kate and Paul agree that all theories remain on the table. The stage is set for the next episode to tackle further investigation—the origins of the threats against Todd, the movements of those close to her, and whether justice can still be found for a case nearly a century old.

"The plot thickens." —Paul Holes (56:06)

For diagrams, maps, and pictures, visit @buriedbonespod on Instagram.