The Murder of Maria Buel

Summary

Buried Bones – "The Murder of Maria Buel"

Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson & Paul Holes
Date: January 28, 2026
Duration: ~1 hour

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Buried Bones, Kate Winkler Dawson (journalist and crime historian) and Paul Holes (retired cold case forensic investigator) examine the 1832 murder of Maria Buel (also known as Maria Gardner). The case, set in rural Gustavus, Ohio, unpacks complex family dynamics, child abuse, and the murder of a teenage girl by her stepfather, Ira Gardner. Through a 21st-century lens, the hosts dissect patterns of coercion, control, community response, and the limits of justice and mental health understanding in early 19th-century America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Historical Scene (08:13–10:25)

• The case revolves around the Gardner family in 1832, living on a 200-acre rented farm.
• Ira West Gardner (stepfather), Anna Logan Gardner (mother), their two children, and Anna’s two children from a previous relationship, including Maria, are central to the story.
• Maria, 16, reportedly left the house "in a disordered state," and never returned.

2. “A Piece of Work”: Ira’s Threats and Character (10:21–13:56)

• Ira displays controlling and menacing behavior, threatening revenge if Maria does not return. Direct quote:
  • "I will be revenged of her if I have to follow her to hell... Maria has got to come home and live contented or I will be the death of her." (10:25, Kate reading Ira’s words)
• Paul reacts to Ira’s volatility:
  • “My initial reaction was, well, Ira’s a piece of work... I have concerns about her safety when she returns.” (11:50, Paul Holes)
• Discussion about men’s emotional expression in the 1830s and unique period language/context.

3. A Pattern of Abuse & Community Tensions (16:36–23:06)

• Maria had accused Ira of years of sexual abuse, telling the landlord he had “abused [her] in a manner that would send him to the penitentiary.”
• Kate: “She has accused him of sexual assault, possibly for several years... I think he was emotionally and physically and sexually abusive with her.” (17:20)
• Neighbors, especially Mrs. Mills, try to intervene and shelter Maria, encouraging Ira to let her go.
• Anna, Maria’s mother, recognizes danger and oscillates between hope for safety and fear for her daughter's well-being.

4. Coercion, Control, and Victimology (23:06–26:21)

• Paul details patterns of grooming, coercion, and control by abusers:
  • “There is a pattern... having grooming behaviors... and then as you mentioned before, there’s this coercive control...” (22:19, Paul Holes)
• Kate shares her teaching experience addressing victim blaming:
  • “It is not a woman who loves to be in love, and she’s blinded by love. That’s not it. That’s somebody who’s being controlled, and men are controlled, too.” (23:06, Kate)
• Maria tries to avoid being alone with Ira; Mrs. Mills and Anna understand the risks.

5. Failed Interventions and Rising Escalation (24:37–31:59)

• Neighborhood men and the landlord try to chaperone or assist Maria, which further antagonizes Ira:
  • “The first one that puts his hand on me is a dead man as quick as he does it. I don’t want you to interfere with my family concerns.” (25:49, Kate reading Ira’s words)
• Paul: “He is now trying to mitigate the presence of these other men through these verbal threats.” (26:21, Paul Holes)
• Maria makes a desperate escape through a window, as Ira screams, “If you do, you will go as a corpse.” (32:01, Kate)

6. Emotional Traps, Practical Obstacles, and Community Dilemmas (33:02–37:47)

• Maria is trapped emotionally and geographically; transportation and anonymity are impossible in her environment.
• Anna suspects that bringing Maria back could be either safe or fatal (“...there’s a 50, 50 chance of things going badly here, and maybe Maria shouldn’t come home.” – 19:10, Kate).
• The hosts explore the complexity of Anna’s role—balancing fear, hope, and survival for her whole family.

7. The Murder (39:32–40:49)

• On August 8, Maria returns to retrieve belongings under relative calm; Ira stabs her twice with a butcher knife in front of family and neighbors.
  • “He stabs her... [Maria] has been stabbed once in the left breast and once in the stomach... Ira yells, ‘I have done it. I have got my revenge.’” (39:49, Kate)
• Maria dies ten minutes later, surrounded by mother and neighbors.
• Ira admits the attack, blaming it on his "passion" and accusing others of failing to wait until he “got over it.” (40:49, Kate)

8. Insanity Defense, Head Injury, and Trial (41:26–54:02)

• Ira pleads not guilty by reason of insanity; community and medical testimony cite a traumatic brain injury (TBI) from a previous accident.
• Kate draws a parallel to Phineas Gage, the classic TBI behavioral change case:
  • “I understand erratic behavior. I even understand violent behavior. But it is clear... he did sexually assault her. And I just don’t see how that would fall under any of those things.” (50:39, Kate)
• At trial, sexual assault within the household is, shockingly, not a crime in 1832 Ohio.
• Jury finds Ira fully culpable; he is convicted of first-degree murder and executed by hanging. The insanity defense does not absolve him, though execution is delayed briefly. (54:02, Kate)

9. The Role of Anna and the Community (55:40–60:49)

• A contemporary poem by Maria’s friend Phoebe Glider later lays blame on both Ira and Anna for Maria’s fate.
• The hosts discuss the tragic, complex role Anna played, possibly as both another victim and an insufficient protector:
  • “There’s a level of culpability on Anna. She recognizes the danger that Ira poses... But... she’s also got, you know, four kids that she’s looking out for and Maria is one of those four...” (56:49, Paul)
• Community, despite attempts, fails to protect Maria. Paul notes: “It’s just unfortunate that [Ira] couldn’t have been somehow isolated, evaluated, treated prior to him killing Maria.” (60:49)
• Kate reflects on the timelessness of coercive family violence and the tragic historical precedent for cases that still echo today.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ira’s chilling threats:
  • “I will be revenged of her if I have to follow her to hell... I can find her. I will follow her to the end of earth.” (10:25)
• Paul on the abuser’s manipulation:
  • “He is demonstrating that coercive control by going, I’m not going to be using an intermediary here. It’s only me and Maria... he’s kind of keeping her in his bubble.” (22:19)
• Kate on contemporary relevance:
  • “I feel like I’ve read this case over and over again over the decades... and there’s still something to me about reading these cases that feel very contemporary, like they could have just happened yesterday, but then realizing it was 1832.” (58:48)
• Paul on Anna’s impossible choice:
  • “There’s a level of culpability on Anna... but there are studies that show... these victims end up getting into situations they don’t know how to get out of. I just kind of wonder if... there’s a lot more abuse that Ira was inflicting on her that may also be factoring in her mind...” (56:49)
• Paul on justice for victims:
  • “For me, I think guilt is right... the mitigating factor is just his mental illness. And I think that that mitigating factor should have impacted the sentencing and not the guilt.” (54:48)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Historical Context & Family Setup: 08:13–10:25
• Ira’s Threats & Pattern of Abuse Emerge: 10:25–16:36
• The Community Intervenes: 18:10–23:06
• Patterns of Coercion & Control: 22:19–26:21
• Escalating Showdowns & Maria's Escape: 31:19–33:02
• Return for Belongings & Ira's Attack: 39:32–40:49
• Discussion of Insanity & Head Injury: 41:26–54:02
• Trial Outcome & Societal Reflections: 54:02–60:49

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Tone & Style

The episode is compelling and empathetic, blending gentle humor (as in Paul’s request for cases with photos or forensics), deep expertise, and profound sensitivity when addressing abuse and social failings. Both hosts maintain a balance between historical analysis and modern victim advocacy.

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Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The murder of Maria Buel is a tragic case rooted in domestic violence, societal limitations, and historical ignorance of both child protection and mental health.
• The episode underscores the timelessness of abuse dynamics—control, manipulation, and systemic failures to protect victims—while mourning the fate of a girl failed by nearly everyone around her.
• The legal landscape of early 19th-century America offered little justice for victims like Maria, a stark contrast to contemporary standards, yet disturbingly, with familiar echoes in modern cases.

Highly recommended for listeners interested in historical true crime, social justice evolution, and the nuanced storytelling and expertise Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes always deliver.

Transcript

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who spent the last 25 years writing about true crime.

[Paul Holes]

And I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator who's worked some of America's most Complicated cases and solved them.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most compelling true crimes.

[Paul Holes]

And I weigh in, using modern forensic techniques to bring new insights to old mysteries.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime cases through a 21st century lens.

[Paul Holes]

Some are solved and some are cold. Very cold.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

This is buried bones. Hey, Paul.

[Paul Holes]

Hey, Kate. How are you?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I'm doing really well. We are at the end of January, and it's very, very cold. And it's probably 75 degrees here. It's so cold, I can't even.

[Paul Holes]

75? Come on.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

No, it's a little colder than that.

[Paul Holes]

But.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

But we don't, you know, we don't get crazy, cold weather. So I have a dream, and you tell me if it's a realistic dream or not. Okay?

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I dream of having, like, a farm or a ranch or something in New England with enough property so that I can snowmobile all across that property and travel everywhere on a snowmobile, even to the little town that, you know, we'll be living outside of, which, you know, is to be determined later on. Is that realistic, or is snowmobiling a lot more complicated and impossible to. Are you going to kill my dream here?

[Paul Holes]

No, I. In fact, I've never been on a snowmobile, so I have no personal experience on what's possible or not.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

You've never been on a snowmobile, really?

[Paul Holes]

I've never have.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Do people not use those often in Colorado? Again, this is going to kill my dream a little bit.

[Paul Holes]

Well, not around the city, no, but, you know, you can. You can definitely. You see people who will take the snowmobiles out. You know, see them on trailers, and they're going out, you know, into the woodlands, if you will, to snowmobile. And then there's adventures that you can, you know, hire people to go out on snowmobiles. And we even considered doing that at one point, but I just haven't done it. You know, I'm obviously familiar with snowmobiles and can kind of guess as to what you can do. If you've got, you know, enough open space or trails that the snowmobiles will fit on, you could probably get anywhere you need to go on that type of property.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, don't talk any more about it because I think you're going to throw up some kind of a weird red flag. Like you investigated a case where someone intentionally ran over someone's leg with a snowmobile or something like that.

[Paul Holes]

Again, I've never had a crime scene in the snow, so I can't I can't even claim that I've got a case involving a snowmobile.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Will you ever get called into an active case in Colorado? I mean, is that what you're kind of doing now if they needed your help?

[Paul Holes]

Well, when you say an active case, like I have gone out to some cold case crime scenes and assisted local authorities, but in terms of being called out to a case that just happened, I don't see that occurring. At least there isn't a. There would have to be a pre arrangement that I would be available to go out and right now there, there isn't. And you know, unless they have something really weird, you know, I don't have the relationship with local law enforcement here in Colorado that I did back, you know, in my old jurisdiction where, you know, people, of course I was active at the time, so there's that difference. But the people knew what my, my areas of expertise were and when they would catch a case, you know, that they thought I could assist on from the very beginning, you know, I would get the phone call in the middle of the night and I'll be like, okay, I'm coming out.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Do you miss those? Do you miss the phone calls in the middle of the night? I mean, every once in a while, would you take one if somebody hurt?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, no, for sure. You know, there is a, there's an adrenaline dump when you have something like that happen. As I got older, you know, the lack of sleep and stuff became problematic. But when you get the call and you're going, wow, this is an interesting case, then the adrenaline starts going and getting out on the crime scene and having to think, you know, that's, that's the big thing is we gotta, we gotta take this step by step. And also just having, there's an ego boost knowing that these are people who want me out here because of, you know, what I'm capable of doing, you know, so there is, it is something that I absolutely miss, but I don't miss the lack of sleep. And even when I was still working in the last year, oh, we had a very interesting serial killer emerging in an apartment complex. It was 3am in the morning and I was just standing there going, I've been here, done this before. I really want to go home and get some sleep.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Oh yeah. So you had that moment where you just said this at some point. It seems like an unsustainable lifestyle, but it's sustainable for people for decades and decades. Stay in it, right?

[Paul Holes]

Oh, yeah. You know, and, and I've, you know, I've got some homicide friends, if you will, that they've been in the, the industry as long as I have and are still being called out. And I'm just like, oh, I don't know how you do it.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, this was a long, strange road from my dream of driving a snowmobile around my property.

[Paul Holes]

But if you have that much property, maybe you'd find a body or two out there.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Oh my gosh, Paul. Hopefully from hundreds of years ago. And that's about it. We'll see. And on that note, we are gonna go. I'm dragging you back into the 1800s. I feel like I've lulled you into some sort of comfort of having photos because we were in the 1900s and now we are. No photos. Zero photos. Sorry, no photos. But this is a really, I think, good story that people. I've had multiple people say, can you guys talk about this? Which is a little surprising. But I think that you'll see the family dynamics and particularly the person is pretty interesting. Okay, let's go ahead and set the scene. We are in Ohio. We're in Gustavus, which is a rural agricultural area in Trumbull County, Ohio. And this is 1832. This is one of our older cases for sure. We are talking about the Gardner family. And it is 39 year old IRA West Gardner and his wife the same age, and her name is Anna Logan Gardner. And they've been married about eight years. So for 1832 they got married late in life. It's because Anna was married before. So they have four children total. Two from a relationship that Anna had before they were married. And then they had two kids together.

[Paul Holes]

Two of their own.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, two of their own. And they live on a. This is my dream, Paul. 200 acre plot of farmland that Ira rents from someone else. And we'll meet that someone else in a little bit. So the central part of the story is a young girl named Maria, and she is Ira's stepdaughter and Anna's daughter from the first relationship. So on August 6, she leaves their house in what had been described at that time as a disordered state. And that just meant she was sort of disheveled, she wasn't dressed properly, she seemed a little out of it. It does not mean assaulted necessarily. It just means, you know, that she was not in a normal state of mind where you would find her.

[Paul Holes]

How old is Maria?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

She is 16.

[Paul Holes]

16, okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So it looks like she's run away and her stepfather really got upset when she didn't come home. So someone saw her leave, and then she didn't come back. And this is what he says. And I know this is gonna sound confusing at first, but this is sort of the way the relationship goes. He says, I will be revenged of her if I have to follow her to hell. You outwitted me last night, but I will out general you today. And he says, Maria has got to come home and live contented or I will be the death of her. I will have my revenge. You may think you can get her so far away that I cannot find her, but that will be of no use. I can find her. I will follow her to the end of earth. I think he's screaming this into the ether. I don't know. He's ranting and raving about her. And I will say, this does involve a boy. The relationship between them is complicated. So Anna and Ira had been married for eight years, which means that Ira had known Maria since she was eight years old.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

There is a pattern of emotional abuse that kind of starts a little bit further back. But what we know of is what happens back in June. What is your initial kind of knee jerk reaction from what Ira is saying, which is really, you know, demanding that she comes back and making some threats?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, well, my initial reaction was, well, Ira's a piece of work. You know, he's probably talking to Maria in harsh tones all the time. You know, if, you know, she's leaving the house in this disheveled state, like she's just had it, you know, what preceded her leaving the house? You know, I have concerns about her safety when she returns. Then, of course, now there's these threats, indirect threats, maybe, you know, to whoever Maria, you know, met up with. So, you know, Ira seems like a hothead. I didn't realize that men during this era were so emotional, you know, of course, you know, there's always been that typical suppression of men showing their emotions, you know, over the last, I don't know, generations. But back in the 1830s, they're throwing themselves down on the floor. I couldn't imagine doing something like that.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, and let's not forget what my expertise is, which is in crime. So you're putting people into awful positions. So even if you read things from the 1700s, even if you read them between the founding fathers, there's a lot of sort of capitulation in some end. And there's, you know, there's a lot of flowery language to a point where sometimes it's hard to know if they're friends or colleagues or lovers when you really read some of this language and that's why it's important to know the context of the era where you're working in is okay, is this normal like you and I have talked about when we talked about a murder case and you know, a potential suspect had signed initials on a letter that didn't implicate him in any way and he put his initials down and we were speculating whether or not this was a case where, you know, he was trying to hide his identity when in fact most people signed with their initials in the 1800s. That was very common. So the historical context is important. That being said, Ira's reaction is over the top. Even for 1832. I would say it was a pretty extreme reaction, especially the threats.

[Paul Holes]

Sure. No, and that's how I took it. It was like, wow, okay.

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

A lot of this starts back in June. So two months earlier, Maria had been sick and needed some sort of antibiotic. It sounded like it was maybe a sinus infection or something. And he said, no, I'm not taking you to the doctor, I'm not getting you any kind of medicine. Simply because she had met up with a man who people just called Mr. Roberts. I don't know how, you know, invested she was in him. But the bottom line is that Ira does not like her talking to men or boys. Certainly, you know, this has been sort of an ongoing thing back and forth ever since Maria came of an age where she could actively date. And there had been rumors two months later that Maria actually really liked this 20 year old named Tunis Spears and they were planning to elope. One thing that I think we can talk about is and was never particularly proven, you know, there's a revelation that's made that Maria makes about her stepfather. I'll say straight away, she has accused him of sexual assault, possibly for several years. She told the landlord this and she says abused in a manner that would send him to the penitentiary. But you know, you've got contemporary sources saying, well, he just tried and it didn't happen. I don't believe that. I think he was emotionally and physically and sexually abusive with her. So I wanted to make that clear straight away, just because I think it does give us context about his behavior moving forward. Versus it being a surprise later on in the story, you know, about this behavior, too.

[Paul Holes]

Not shocked.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah. Ira is jealous, it sounds like, of every man that she gets involved with, and she has run away. So eventually, Mrs. Mills, who's a neighbor of the Gardner's, alerts Ira for some reason that Maria has been staying with her family. So this is not Mr. Roberts family. This is not Tunis family. This is, you know, another neighbor. She said she tried to persuade Ira to accept her choice to move out, that she's 16, she can make her own decisions. I'm not quite sure that was the case in 1832, particularly in a rural family. You know, in the book that just came out, the center's all about. That's the same year that my main character, Sarah Maria Cornell, is murdered. And the first freedom that many women got was working on the east coast in these factories and these mills. Most of the time they were relegated to working on farms, kind of almost forced labor. Certainly, you know, they had some freedom, but I don't know about the choice of the person they end up marrying necessarily in this time period. But on the other hand, Mrs. Mills is there, and she knows it maybe better than I do, for sure, you.

[Paul Holes]

Know, but it sounds like Mrs. Mills is trying to intercede and maybe understands the dynamics between Ira and Maria.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, this is more of like kind of victimology story and a criminal profiling where you can kind of explain what's going on as we move forward here, because there are very few times where I think we have so much detail about someone's behavior before the inciting incident happens. So Mrs. Mills goes to Ira and says, straighten up. She's leaving. Get used to it and concentrate on your other kids. And he says, okay, except that Maria needs to meet with me one more time in private in their home to have a talk. And Maria's mother, Ira's wife, goes to Mrs. Mills, who is, you know, sheltering Maria, and she says, if Maria comes home, things will go well. If not, they will go wrong. So she's saying there's a 50, 50 chance of things going badly here, and maybe Maria shouldn't come home.

[Paul Holes]

Anna obviously knows that there's a possibility Ira is going to fly off the handle.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Maria refuses to be alone with him. They are standing together outside of Mrs. Mills barn. IRA explodes. He comes to the Mills property. He stands outside their barn, and he says, you need to come out to Maria. He's screaming at her. And then he says to the Mills, I will see her if I have to. Wait this Seven years. I must see her and will have my revenge if it is not this. Eight years. Hearing these words, Maria agrees to speak with him in the barn, but she wouldn't go home with him. And we don't know what the discussion was in the barn, but I don't think they necessarily left her alone with him. He was just very unstable.

[Paul Holes]

It's like there's a pathology there. There's something off about him, at least with what I'm hearing. So it'll be interesting to see how this develops. But I've got concerns about his mental.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Stability during this stalemate where she says, I'll talk to you, but I'm not going home with you. The neighbors decide they want to get her shoes from her parents because she hadn't had them in several days. And that might seem silly, but, you know, in 1832, these are folks who probably didn't have very much money. This was her one pair of shoes, it sounds like, and she needed them back. But Ira says, no, I'm not going to give anybody anything except Maria. So obviously we see this as controlling. There is a push pull here that I don't think we've really had detailed in this way before, where he is making demands and then he's saying, okay, and then he's making demands and going back and forth. And Maria is just trying to get out of the situation, but she's physically out. She's physically out away from him.

[Paul Holes]

At this point in this day and age, you know, he is been sexually abusing a child. Right. And there is a pattern that these types of offenders do in terms of having these grooming behaviors, you know, to try to, you know, get the child and other family members to be accepting of the. The interaction that the offender is having with the child. And then, as you mentioned before, there's this coercive control where they try to, in essence, manage every aspect of this child's life. And so he's demonstrating that coercive control by going, I'm not going to be using an intermediary here. It's only me and Maria, you know, and that way he's kind of keeping her in his bubble.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

One of the things that I do with my true crime podcast class is, you know, we talk about stories, not just with podcasts, but we just talk about true crime stories that are impactful and what are the responsibilities of the content creators to those stories? There are many stories like this, but, you know, there's a few stories that float out about women who, you know, have men in their lives who turn out to be terrible, but they keep coming back. And every time I talk to my students about them in the past, they would say, why would she do that? I don't understand. And, you know, and so I finally had to go through this process of explaining coercion and control, and it really changes their way of thinking when they look at these stories. And it's important when we tell these stories to explain why this is happening. It is not in the case I'm talking about. It is not a woman who loves to be in love, and she's blinded by love. That's not it. That's somebody who's being controlled, and men are controlled, too. That's somebody who is being controlled. And so to see this happening in this time period, it's another reminder. This has always been happening, but it can happen from a distance. She is out. She is technically safe. But he manages to pull her back in, back and forth, over and over again. And it's interesting to see it unfold.

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[Paul Holes]

But he's standing outside his neighbor's house yelling in, you know, in a very dramatic overtone. You know, there is an aspect to that which has got to be scary to the neighbors. You know, what is this man capable of doing?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let's see how this unfolds. To me, it sounds like Maria does everything she possibly can to make this a good situation, safe situation for her. So Ira, in his agitated state, he leaves. He goes onto his own property. Remember, he's renting it. He goes to his landlord, who's a friend of the family. His name is Rivarez. And he says to him, help me get Maria back home. And Riveras didn't want to. He was really hesitant. And he said, I have heard things about you and what you've done to Maria in this time period. This would have been, you know, not discussed very openly at all, Sexual assault claims. And, you know, I've told you some of the words that people used. Outraged for a word for rape. A sex maniac is code. So Riveras says, I've heard about some of this stuff. And of course, Ira denies it. He says, I would never hurt her. And he said, you know, if she comes home, Rivera said, I will help you, but you have to promise that you're not going to touch her and you're going to keep her safe. And of course, Ira says yes. So on the evening of August 7th, Riveres goes to Maria, who trusts him, and she says, okay, I will come and collect the belongings myself. And she takes two men with her. So not just Riveras but two other men. She goes to the farm and Ira freaks out again and yells a lot of threats. He says the first one that puts his hand on me is a dead man as quick as he does it. I don't want you to interfere with my family concerns.

[Paul Holes]

This is Ira posturing to these men. You know, he is trying to control the situation. He recognizes Maria is protecting herself. And when these men are now coming onto his property to assist Maria in getting her belongings, he is now trying to mitigate the presence of these other men through these verbal, in essence, these verbal threats.

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So what is the thinking around what Riveros does to help? He's heard these allegations. Of course, Ira denies them. He knows Ira and the family really well. Well enough to bring up something that would have been really brave of him to bring up at that time period. But he still helps him. So what is that thinking?

[Paul Holes]

Do you think I'm putting myself in Rivera's position? You've got this Ira that he knows well knows. Ira can be unhinged. So there's going to be a component if I don't cooperate with what Ira is asking for. There could be consequences to Rivera's either physically, the interaction or even the business relationship because Ira is renting from Rivera's. Right. So there is a financial relationship between these two. There also could just be this not completely believing all the allegations or putting false trust. And I think it's false trust that what Ira is saying. Is he saying, no, you know, nothing like that has happened and I'm not going to. I will never hurt her, you know, so maybe Rivera's is believing Ira in that, that mindset. So it's, I think it's complicated from, you know, the kind of the, these layers and the relationship that Ira and Rivera have with each other.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, Ira waits for Maria to make it into the house with the chaperones, either outside or inside the house, but kind of away from Maria. When he starts screaming, what I told you, he screamed like, I'm gonna kill you if you come near me. All of that. Maria hears this and does the right thing for herself. She immediately tries to get out the window, but he says, you cannot go from here. If you do, you will go as a corpse. And one of the men has a hoe as a weapon, and he tells Ira, we're leaving and we're taking her with us. But he then promises to search for Maria into the night. I mean, this is terrifying.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, for sure.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And this is something that. That happened yesterday probably and will happen tomorrow, probably to all sorts of people, not just women, either.

[Paul Holes]

Well, not only is there the control element, you know, but the language he's using, he is purposefully inflicting fear. You know, you're going to be a corpse. I will, you know, hunt you into the night, or whatever that last statement was. You know, this is now putting an emotion into Maria about her personal safety. You know, when is this going to happen? You know, when is stepdad all of a sudden going to come through my window at the neighbor's house? You know, and when I think about some of these offenders that like to call their victims on the phone afterwards, what are they doing? They're purposefully letting the victim know I'm still around. And they purposely make statements that scare the victims. That's what Ira is doing to Maria.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So Maria gets out the window, essentially, and leaves with these men because one of them's threatening Ira, and he yells at her. She doesn't get anything out of the house. So the next day, Ira's not letting it go, of course, and he's begging Riveras to help him get Maria at the house, back to the house. He says, I won't hurt her. He already said that. And Rivera says, I'm gonna pay for Maria's independence. She's not gonna be dependent on you anymore. And, you know, probably he maybe offered Ira some money, too, just to let just be done. And in 1832, she would have, you know, been able to kind of get away and be anonymous. But the Property itself is 200 acres, so you can imagine how difficult it could have been. She could have gotten on a wagon, I suppose, but it would have been difficult for her to be able to do a significant amount of traveling to get away. And she has her mom, and she has three siblings, too. So there's like, this emotional trap that she's in. And then also, you know, she is petrified that this stepfather of hers knows everybody that she knows and that she's never going to be able to get away from this.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, there's just the practical aspect that transportation back then, you know, that's horse and carriage, right?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah.

[Paul Holes]

I mean, it would take these neighbors, you know, their willingness to try to get her further away from the threat, and, you know, it's like, well, what would that mean to them down the road?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Absolutely. So Rivera walks to the farm. He says to Maria, she's safe, and I will take you back to the gardener's property. Ira greets her with kind words. Then he and Rivera go set off to work. But by the time they returned for lunch, Maria had already left. And it sounds like Ira had wanted to speak with her. I'm not sure what changed on this trip where he was willing to leave her alone in the house to get her stuff, but he seemed this time willing to leave, go to work, and then come back. And then he freaked out again because she wasn't there, and he was expecting her to be there. So what accounts for the change in that sort of behavior?

[Paul Holes]

He may just have realized that the previous behavior did not work. Him coming off as unhinged, caused Maria to bring two adult males, one armed with a hoe. And so now he's purposely de escalating, maybe with the hope that he can get Maria back into the house without the threat of other men possibly being present as protectors.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, he gets very upset, and he screams at his wife. He says, she needs to come back. You need to go get her. And Anna is exasperated, and she says, if she comes, will you let her get her clothes and let her go in peace? And he says, oh, of course. And she goes to go get Maria. And I was just thinking, what are people thinking in this situation? You know? Now, I don't know about the dynamic between Anna and Ira. If there is a similar dynamic of abuse. There has to be some kind of abuse. I mean, this can't be just isolated, I would assume, to Maria, I suspect.

[Paul Holes]

That there is at least, you know, pretty significant verbal abuse going on between Ira and Anna. You know, out of law enforcement, when you're dealing with, you know, these offenders that are abusing kids or in a domestic violence situation, we see this pattern of behavior over and over again. And you kind of brought it up, too, that even though the victim is being abused in a variety of different ways, the victim also just continues to stay within that relationship. And you know, so Anna previously had told the neighbor that, you know, if Maria comes home, it could either go very good or very bad. And so now I believe that Anna is sensing at this moment in time that Ira is in his good place. Right. He's got the good emotional state. And so Anna's now saying, okay, he's de escalated. He's now back to just being the nice Ira, knowing sometime down the road he's going to flip back into that.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Rage state, but hoping, I'm sure, that Maria is long gone at that point. And Anna is sitting here realizing that she's losing her daughter. Her daughter's. If she can go, she's never coming back to the situation. So that must have been very difficult for her too.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, sure.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And in 1832 it was very hard to get a divorce. And also, I have to presume she's completely dependent financially on him. Although I will say Ira does not like hard work. And you know, he works with Riveras. And Rivera complains a lot that Ira is not wanting to lift logs and do things that he's supposed to be doing. And so they don't have a ton of money. They have less money than they should, probably because he's not a hard worker. So now this is the day. It's mid afternoon Wednesday, August 8, and Ira, as usual, Ira and Revis are working together, repairing some township roads. And he seems like everything is okay with Ira. He's complaining about the hard work and complaining about money. About noon, the two of them go back to Ira's house. Anna had made them lunch. It sounds like Rivera ate it and Aira didn't. He just, you know, wasn't hungry that day. So Rivera lays down to rest. But soon there is a piercing scream. He bolts to the door and he sees Ira at the fence with a butcher knife. And Maria falls to the ground. So he's stabbed her. She returned to get her belongings and he stabbed her with a butcher knife. She has been stabbed once in the left breast and once in the stomach. And he rushes from the house, Rivera's and wrestles the knife from Ira. And Ira yells, I have done it. I have got my revenge. So when I was first reading this story, I was thinking, I hope that this is her killing him. But I know realistically it's more likely the other way around.

[Paul Holes]

I'm interested in knowing what did Maria do that Ira is. So where he's having to call it, this is revenge, you know, how is he perceiving the world? You know, did he just take it as such a slight against him that she ran away. That could be. But, you know, it was obvious, you know, as you were telling the, you know, the case and Ira's personality. This is somebody who is very capable of going unhinged and committing homicidal violence. I truly suspected Maria was going to end up dead when she came back into the house. It's just sad. But Ira was able to manipulate the situation to a point to where the other adults allowed Maria back.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So then she survives for about 10 minutes. Her neighbor is there, her mother is there, and everybody saw this. Ira's not hiding it. There's a crowd that gathers, including one of the men who had been the chaperone for Maria on the farm the day before. And Ira says this, which really ticked me off. He says to the man, you ought to have kept her away a day or two until I got over it, knowing, as you did, that I was in a passion.

[Paul Holes]

All right, so there's almost a bipolar aspect to starting to emerge with Ira. And Anna definitely knows it. You know, she. She sees his high, she sees his lows. You know, she sees him get aggressive, and they get docile. So he's. He's going through these. These mood swings. But there's more, obviously. There's more than that. He's. He's, you know, abusing Maria and he's threatening her. Yeah, he probably should have been institutionalized well before this. This homicide occurred.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, this story does not end here. There is a question about that, because he will plead not guilty by reason of insanity. So I think the way this unfolds is important. You already know what his behavior. You've already kind of said it's the highs and lows, up and down, and very, very erratic. The neighbors hold him at the house until there's a constable that shows up. And the guy arrests the constable, arrests him. From there, he goes to the Trumbull County Jail in Warren, Ohio. When he is en route, Rivera rides with him. And now we talk about premeditation, because he says that I was carrying around a knife for two days, waiting for the opportunity to use it, and I didn't have the opportunity. He says right before he stabbed her, he heard a voice whisper, don't kill her. And he said, I ignored it. And there are weapons that neighbors find. There's an ax and a pitchfork propped up against the fence on the property. And Ira had placed them there the night before. And he said that if he had known where Maria was that night, that he would have used them to murder Her. He's stashing weapons everywhere.

[Paul Holes]

An offender that is, you know, demonstrating a level of premeditation doesn't necessarily negate that you are dealing with an offender that has mental health issues. It just tells me that this is not an offender that has gone into, you know, a deep psychosis where they are no longer aware of the reality of the world around them. You know, and. And now we have plenty of examples of these disorganized psychotic offenders and how they. I mean, they just literally will lash out with homicidal violence at anybody that were to cross their path during that. That time frame. That's not what's going on with Ira. But I. I do think that if he were to be psychologically analyzed, there probably would be a diagnosis of some sort of. You know, and I'm not. I use the term bipolar, and all I'm doing is describing sort of the rage versus docile characteristics versus labeling him as having some sort of bipolar personality disorder. But there is an aspect to that. You know, he's 39 years old, and, you know, the idea of the voice. And then it was like, okay, now are we dealing with somebody who's developing schizophrenia? But there's something going on there where him pleading not guilty by reason of insanity. At this point in time, I am not, like, offended that that's a stance that the defense has taken. Now, does it truly rise to the legal definition today of insanity? Part of that is, did the defendant know right from wrong? Do they demonstrate that their acts are wrong? And I think Ira knows right from wrong. He knows that killing Maria is wrong. But there is a mental health thing going on with him where it's like, okay, now there's somewhat of a mitigating factor in my mind about Ira.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let me tell you some things. First, Ira did not want attorneys. He said, I have committed the deed. She was innocent, and has nothing to cause me to do the deed. So now he's flipping again.

[Paul Holes]

So he's almost, like, pleading guilty, right?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, as soon as he kills her, he shows remorse. Whether that is authentic or not, that is what I'm hearing. He gets three attorneys who are really good anyway, and that's where we end up with the insanity defense. And sounds like there's some background there, because there are an awful lot of people who say he has not been well for years because he had an accident that involved really doing some damage to his brain. And it made me think of that classic case that you talk about, the guy who had the railroad tie driven into his head. So, you know, we'll talk about that accident, too. So I don't know about the mental health aspect, but there is a documented accident where this man got really hurt. Do I think that leads you to sexually abuse your stepdaughter? No, but the erratic behavior is something else.

[Paul Holes]

Sure. You know, and you brought up Phineas Gage, and that's a classic example in psychology of a very law abiding man who ends up having this iron rod driven by an explosive from underneath his jaw up the top of his head, and it damaged a portion of his brain to where now he is demonstrating risky behaviors and violent behaviors that was. Was diametrically opposed to what he was like prior to that type of accident. You know, so this is where with Ira, you know, part of evaluating his crime is, okay, well, when did this accident occurred? It occurred prior to, you know, this latest incident with Maria. But did it occur prior to him starting the sexual abuse on Maria?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Right.

[Paul Holes]

Or demonstrating other, you know, moments of rage like he was demonstrating recently? So, you know, that I'm sure there's probably when this goes to trial, there's a battle of medical experts and psychological experts that are in essence saying opposite from each other.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah. So like I said, this is no forensics in this case. And I know how much you love forensics. There's no photos in this case. I know you like photos, but I picked this case beside the fact that a lot of people wanted to hear about it, just because I think the circumstances are really fascinating. Fascinating. So here's the timeline, what you were talking about. The Murder happens in 1832, and he had known Maria because he and Anna were married. Now, I have to do math. I think it is about 1824. In 1825 or 1826, people could not settle on this. Ira was loading wheat onto his wagon. He fell, had a hard fall off the top of the wagon, hit his head, and it bled profusely. Ever since then, he has constantly complained about really intense headaches. And family members everywhere said his behavior totally changed. At times he was out of his mind, according to his brother Elijah. And he testified to this. For example, Elijah said that about a year or two years after this accident, Ira was sick with jaundice. He said that he was despondent and sitting under a hedge. I think Anna must have told him that she was married to the father of Maria and the other sibling that was his stepchild. But he found out that Anna never married the man. So Maria and the other sibling were illegitimate. And this would have been a really bad thing in 1832. And it would have brought shame onto the family. So, you know, this was him very upset about this.

[Paul Holes]

But Anna could have kept that secret from him. So she must have felt that it benefited her and her daughters by divulging it. Does that make sense?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Maybe.

[Paul Holes]

But this, he. She is divulging this to him after he's had this traumatic brain injury.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Correct.

[Paul Holes]

And so she probably sees firsthand him flip a switch when she divulges it. You know, she sees the bad Ira.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Come out along those lines. Ira was so upset and his brother described dramatic about this that he was going to pick up and move to Michigan and leave them behind. Next year, he and Anna would have their first child and then their second child. So he didn't end up doing that. But Elijah thought that his despair was overly dramatic and unnerving. To put that into context, I told you how serious it would be to have an illegitimate child in 1832. So Elijah must have thought that this was way too over the edge, because any man would probably be in despair over this. And so whatever Ira's reaction was must have been really big, to a point where Anna was really frightened, and she asked Elijah to stay with them for a few nights until he calmed down. Okay, so this was the beginning of what they were saying was really erratic behavior from him just within, you know, the year or so that he had this accident. So that would have made Maria about 10 at this point, you know, and it really does.

[Paul Holes]

I mean, obviously, you know, these brain injuries could influence behavior, but also, there could have been just a natural development of mental health issues that Ira was just starting to experience. That has nothing to do with him falling off of that, you know, wagon back in the day.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, I understand erratic behavior. I even understand violent behavior. But it is clear from everyone that he either tried or, according to Maria, he did sexually assault her. And I just don't see how that would fall under any of those things. Brain injury or mental health.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. You know, and I bet that you'd probably find experts on one side or the other that would make arguments against it. But, you know, at this point, you know, Maria is. Is. Is a victim. And now comes down to, well, how much is Aira going to be held responsible for the. I mean, the murder of Maria? You know, obviously there's the preceding sexual assault, but chances are they can't charge that at this point in time. But it's. It's the actual murder that's eyewitnessed.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, well, I have a Disturbing disclosure for you, there is no charging anyone for sexual assault because it is not illegal to sexually assault someone within your household.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, really?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So he's not going to be charged? Yep. So, you know, they can bring it up, but it doesn't play into this whether he killed her or not, whether he's, you know, insane or not.

[Paul Holes]

So it's more of socially unacceptable versus criminal for sexual assault back in the day.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And of course, we know, you know, that there was no sexual assault considered between husband and wife at all. So let me tell you one little thing. The year that this happens, actually, a couple of months before this happens, there's a man named Mr. Lewis who testifies that when Ira and Mr. Lewis were walking, that Ira suddenly staggered and he fell into a ditch, almost caught himself. He said that he has an intense pain at the back of his head that was causing him to lose balance. And not long after that, maybe about a month after that, is when all of this starts? Well, no, probably about six months after that, is when all of this starts to happen. But once we get into the trial, we do have the battle of the experts. You have two doctors who examine his head. They find a depression and a protuberance at the back of his skull, but there's no scarring. So it's unclear whether these are malformations that have been caused by an injury or something he was born with or developed. Who knows? The prosecutor says this is bullshit. And the accusations that he had possibly molested or raped Maria, they're inconsequential, as I told you, because sexually assaulting someone in the same household is not considered a crime, and those are not investigated. So this is a one day trial. The jury deliberates for about two hours. And what do you think they came back with?

[Paul Holes]

I don't see how they couldn't come back. They had to choose guilty because you literally have Rivera see him stab Maria. You know, so now the question is, you know, first, I don't know if they, you know, differentiate it between first degree, second degree murder, manslaughter back in the day, but there is no question that this homicide occurred and they have witnesses to it. The question is, okay, what is his culpability in the homicide? Considering the fact that he's claiming not guilty due to insanity?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They say that he has full culpability in this homicide and he is convicted of first degree murder and he's sentenced to death. It is delayed because the attorneys say that, you know, he. This had not been premeditated. There are two doctors who Said that Ira might have had a predisposition to insanity. And there are people who sign a petition, they delay the execution for a month, but ultimately he ends up being hanged. And so that debate between, you know, where that line is and what your responsibility is, whether, you know, you did right or wrong, what effect a head injury has. Lots of people have head injuries. They don't sexually assault and murder their stepchildren. That's what I think makes this case really interesting.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. And especially with the limitations that they had back in the day in terms of doing these types of evaluations. I mean, they're just feeling the outside of his head and says, well, that deformity could. Could be congenital or that could be, you know, a result of the injury. For me, I think guilt is right. You know, that's. As I explained before, there's no question that Ira did it. And then the mitigating factor is just his mental illness. And I think that that mitigating factor should have impacted the sentencing and not the guilt. And so I think the death sentence and then the very quick execution afterwards probably shouldn't have happened in this case. But I have no issue with him being, you know, life. You know, life without parole for Maria's murder.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah. And in prisons in that time period, it would have been worse than being executed, I would have to say. Being in one of these prisons would have been awful. So he was buried in an unmarked grave. I think the thing that a lot of people know is that there's a poem that was attributed to a poet named Phoebe Glider. She was one of her friends, and it was published in 1943. And it condemns Ira's sexual abuse and what Phoebe believes is Anna's complicity and the role in convincing Maria to return home over and over again, you know, with these promises from Ira. And she's described as lamb like and sending her back home to slaughter. So there is that idea. Her mother failed her.

[Paul Holes]

Right.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

The community failed her. You have all of these people, I mean, over shoes, you know, and. And her belongings. And Maria is listening to these people because she's 16, and 16 is absolutely considered an adult.

[Paul Holes]

Absolutely.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

In 1832. But she wasn't. She didn't know anything. And so you have these older adults, men saying, it's okay, we'll keep you safe. And they didn't.

[Paul Holes]

I agree with that. There's a. A level of culpability on Anna. She recognizes the danger that Ira poses. But also there is the situation that Anna finds herself in. Not that I would relieve Anna of any type of parental responsibilities in protecting Maria from Ira. But there are studies that show, and I'm now going into more of your serial predator aspects where you have women that assist these predators in their crimes. You know, and, and Dr. Park Dietz has a great article what he calls, you know, compliant victims of the sexual status, where a lot of what's going on is that these victims end up getting into situations they don't know how to get out of. And I just kind of wonder if, if there's something like that going on with Anna and there's a lot more abuse that Ira was inflicting on her that may also be factoring in her mind that I need to get Maria back here just so I save the rest of my family.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, absolutely. I mean, we were just talking about the incident, I told you where he was so angry at her he wanted to move to Michigan. When he finds out about, you know, the illegitimacy of the kids and that she continued to be married to him for six, seven more years. You know, so she felt trapped, I'm sure in some way, but it doesn't mean don't protect your child. It's so complicated. Without knowing more, I can't imagine everybody there was not. Was abused, I'm sure.

[Paul Holes]

Well, and that's where I think Anna's having to look out for herself. She's also got, she's also got, you know, four kids that she's looking out for and Maria is one of those four, you know, so what is Ira going to do to the other three kids if Anna doesn't cooperate and try. Try to get Maria back into the household?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking, I was thinking the math here in 1827 is when they had their first kid. So Maria's murder happens in 32. So you've got a five year old and probably a three year old maybe. Oh, man. Trapped on a 200 acre farm, which I know sounds like you can go anywhere. You can't. You can't even get off that property easily, you know, maybe so. I feel like I've read this case over and over again over the decades, you know, this sort of case. And there's still something to me about reading these cases that feel very contemporary, like they could have just happened yesterday, but then realizing it was 1832 and hearing these people's names and the way that Maria moved people and at the same time how manipulative Ira was and how naive or culpable or whatever the community was to this sort of manipulation and erratic behavior. And then you've got, you know, the, the other part of the, you know, having a brain injury and all of that stuff, it's just so relevant now. And that's why the lack of forensics and the lack of photos, hopefully I've made up for with the story.

[Paul Holes]

Well, no, for sure, because I think it brings out just, you know, know, the complexities that that can occur both, you know, within the actual crime, but what's leading up to that crime. How is the community responding, you know, how are these neighbors responding? How is Anna responding? And then the legal side, you know, how is this going to, you know, work out from a criminal charging and a sentencing standpoint? It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray in this case, you know, and I, you know, fortunately it looks like Ira was in essence taken out and that saved others from possibly, you know, being hurt, particularly Anna and the other kids. It's just unfortunate that he couldn't have been somehow isolated, evaluated, treated prior to him killing Maria.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Right, Absolutely. Well, what a hard case. And I know we'll continue to have hard cases, but with you by my side, Paul, holes will make it through and I'll try to get you into the 1900s as quick as possible.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, get me some photos.

[Paul Holes]

Get me some evidence, you know, please.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Give me some autopsy photos. I'm just asking for a photo, you know, maybe a microscope image, something hand.

[Paul Holes]

Drawn, sketch, you know.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

All right, I will see you next week with a new case.

[Paul Holes]

Awesome. Thanks, Kate.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Thanks. This has been an exactly right production.

[Paul Holes]

For our sources and show notes, go to exactlyrightmedia.com buriedbones sources.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Our senior producer is Alexis Amorosi.

[Paul Holes]

Research by Alison Trouble and Kate Winkler Dawson.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

[Paul Holes]

Our theme song is by Tom Breyfogel.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Paul Holes]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, George Oliver Hard Stark and Danielle Kramer.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at. Buried Bones Pod.

[Paul Holes]

Kate's most recent book, all that Is Wicked, A Gilded Age Story of Murder and the Race to Decode the Criminal Mind is available now.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And Paul's best selling memoir, Unmasked My Life Solving America's Cold Cases is also available now.

[Paul Holes]

Listen to Buried bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts.

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