Buried Bones – "Turn Back the Page: The Christmas Mystery"

Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson (journalist), Paul Holes (retired cold-case investigator)
Date: December 24, 2025
Theme: The mysterious 1945 Christmas Eve house fire that killed—or possibly didn’t kill—the Sodder children in Fayetteville, West Virginia. Kate and Paul dissect the historical case, weigh evidence, and debate whether tragedy struck via arson, accident, or conspiracy.

Episode Overview

In this "Christmas Mystery" episode, Kate and Paul revisit the infamous Sodder family fire. Five children disappeared after their home was reduced to ashes on Christmas Eve 1945. The pair investigate suspicions of arson, explore conspiracy angles tied to the family's Italian-American community and political tensions, and scrutinize how botched investigation and unreliable forensic practices of the era cast doubt on the official explanation—leaving unresolved whether the Sodder children were murdered or spirited away.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday True Crime and Understaffed Investigation

• Setting the Scene:

  • Christmas 1945, Fayetteville, WV.
  • The Saddu (Sodder) family, Italian-American, ten children.
  • George Saddu, outspoken anti-Mussolini immigrant, may have attracted local enemies.
  • Holiday staffing shortages in emergency services play a pivotal role in the case.
  • “When people in our stories have enough forensic experience, things tend to go wrong here.” (Kate, 09:05)

• Relevance of the Christmas Setting:

  • Fewer staff on duty in both journalism and law enforcement during holidays (06:56).
  • Family strife and economic stress often spike during the holidays, increasing tensions and, historically, violent crime (05:46).

2. Strange Threats & Possible Motives in the Community

• Political Tensions Pre-Fire (10:55 – 13:43):
  • George, respected in his community, became divisive due to his anti-Mussolini stance (10:55).
  • Multiple public disputes with other Italian-Americans, sowing bitter feelings.
• Mysterious Visitors (13:08 – 19:58):
  • A job-seeker warns cryptically that George’s “fuse boxes…are going to cause a fire someday.”
  • Local insurance salesman, after a heated Mussolini argument, tells George:

    “Your goddamn house is going to go up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed. You're going to be paid for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini.” (17:11)

  • Children spot a man watching them from a parked car days before the fire, adding to the family’s unease.

3. The Night of the Fire: Sequence of Events

• Unusual Pre-Fire Activities (19:58 – 23:54):
  • 12:30 am: A mysterious phone call from an unknown woman, laughter and clinking glasses in the background.
    • Possible "confirmation call" to check if the family is home before the attack?
    • “That’s rude first… but I would not eliminate the possibility this was somebody trying to check are they actually home...” (Paul, 22:07)
  • Lights on, doors unlocked, curtains open—Jenny (the mother) notes out-of-place details after the call.
• The Fire Starts:
  • Jenny hears a “bang on the roof” and something rolling (“Sounds like a Molotov cocktail,” Paul, 23:54).
  • Fire quickly engulfs the house; only five of ten children make it out.
  • Strange obstacles:
    • Ladder always kept by the house is missing (later found 75 feet away).
    • Two work trucks are inexplicably disabled, preventing rescue.
    • Telephone lines are discovered cut.
  • Witness reports:
    • Unidentified man seen near the house with a block and tackle (possibly tampering with trucks?).

4. Emergency Response Failures & Suspicious Evidence

• Fire Department Delays (33:11 – 36:21):
  • Chief F.J. Morris claims he can’t drive the fire truck alone; must wait for his crew, resulting in a seven-hour delay.
    • “Seven hours just seems not feasible to me.” (Kate, 36:19)
    • “It’s absurd as far as I’m concerned.” (Paul, 36:21)
  • House reportedly burns to the ground in 45 minutes, faster than typical, especially for such a large (wooden) structure.
• Potential Accelerants and Tampering:
  • House contained a 55-gallon drum of gasoline in the basement—possible target for arson.
  • “If you have a fire fueled by this 55 gallons of gas… preplanning, intent, wanting this fire to kill as many people… as possible.” (Paul, 40:06)

5. Aftermath: No Remains, Official Rulings, and Early Bulldozing

• The Central Mystery (41:18 – 43:18):
  • Despite “days and days of searching,” no teeth or bone fragments from any of the missing children are found.
  • Quick bulldozing: Family levels the site within four days, building a memorial—potentially destroying evidence, raising conspiracy theories (44:37).
• Police Conclusion:
  • Coroner rules deaths accidental, caused by supposed faulty wiring, despite utility company assurance wiring was safe.
  • Thief Lonnie Johnson admits cutting phone wires to steal tools, but is not tied to the fire (47:58).

6. Contradictory Evidence & Theories

• Physical Evidence and Arson

  • Green, hard rubber object found months later resembles a military-style incendiary device (“pineapple bomb”) (49:56).
  • Paul is skeptical: fire scene was poorly searched if this was missed.

• Bones and Forensics:

  • In 1949, a re-examination uncovers four vertebrae not burned in the fire; later suspected to be cemetery fill dirt contamination, not the missing children (59:30 – 62:57).

• Science Versus Belief:

  • Ginny conducts at-home "experiments," burning animal bones to test cremation theories (“Ginny’s experiments are faulty completely.” – Paul, 52:44).
  • Forensic experts and historians debate whether, under the fire conditions, five children could have been entirely incinerated in 45 minutes.

7. The ‘Missing Children’ Sightings & Rumors

• Eyewitnesses:

  • Reports of children seen both in the flaming house and alive in a car on the road, and in various towns with unfamiliar adults in the weeks after.
  • Motel staff claims seeing them with Italian-speaking adults after the fire.
  • “It’s so hard to put a lot of credibility on these witness statements. Can’t dismiss them either.” (Paul, 55:11)

• Investigator Stunts & Questionable Actions

  • Fire chief claims to find a human heart, but it’s beef liver he buried himself, supposedly to "give closure" to the family (56:21).
  • The insurance salesman who threatened George sits on the coroner’s jury that rules the deaths accidental.

8. Theories and Suspects: What Happened to the Sodder Children?

• Did the Children Burn?
  • Official narrative: Fire too hot, bodies cremated—yet lack of bone fragments and evidence casts doubt.
• Or Were They Taken?
  • Family and community suspicion: children kidnapped or whisked away (political revenge?).
• Unresolved Leads:
  • 1949: Vertebrae found are not matched to the Sodder children, possibly due to grave fill dirt.
  • 1968: Family receives a photo labeled with Louis’s name and other cryptic information, suggesting one child survived—but likely a hoax.
    • “I’m not buying this photo at all. …This sounds more like…nut jobs out there” (Paul, 65:41).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are going to be heading into a time period that’s really going to be interesting. And also a family. There’s a lot of stuff happening where we have to figure out what happened.”
  — Kate, 07:16

• “Families get together, family strife rears its ugly head. Somebody ends up dead.”
  — Paul, 05:46

• “Your goddamn house is going to go up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed. You are going to be paid for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini.”
  — Insurance salesman’s alleged threat, 17:11 (Kate reading)

• “Finding the pineapple incendiary device… being found days later… just, to me, there was an incomplete search of this arson scene from the very beginning... I lean towards, you know, the kids were killed in the fire and they are likely their remains are still at that location.”
  — Paul, 68:39

• “We really do always seem to come back… to how competent are our investigators at the time?”
  — Kate, 67:35

• “If I were to get involved in this case today... I’d be looking to see if I could find siblings or… people at the cousin level who have pursued genealogy… There are ways we could possibly solve this mystery.”
  — Paul, 65:34

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:56 – Holiday/Christmas context and crime-solving challenges
• 10:55 – George’s anti-Mussolini stance and community tensions
• 13:08 – First mysterious threat and job-seeker
• 17:11 – Insurance salesman’s explicit threat
• 19:58 – Kids stalked by mysterious stranger
• 23:54 – The night of the fire begins: strange phone call, noises on the roof
• 27:35 – Rescue attempts blocked; ladder and trucks disabled
• 33:11 – Emergency response failures; 7-hour delay
• 36:19 – House reduced to ashes in 45 minutes
• 41:18 – Aftermath: missing children, no remains found
• 44:37 – Family bulldozes site after only four days
• 47:58 – Thief admits to cutting phone wires (but denies arson involvement)
• 49:56 – Rubber object found, possible incendiary device
• 52:42 – Ginny’s at-home bone-burning experiments
• 55:11 – Contradictory witness reports: children seen “after” the fire
• 56:21 – Fire chief’s faked evidence (beef liver “human heart”)
• 59:30 – Smithsonian investigates bones found in 1949
• 65:04 – 1968 photo mailed to family; hoax suspected
• 67:35 – Reflections: legacy of the case, unresolved questions

Conclusion & Takeaways

• The fate of the Sodder children remains one of the great American true crime mysteries:
  • Were the children killed in a meticulously orchestrated arson, or kidnapped in a politically and personally motivated vendetta?
  • The inadequacy of the investigation—botched emergency response, poor forensic recovery, and community conflicts of interest—left fundamental questions unresolved.
• Both Paul and Kate agree: With modern DNA and genealogical testing, answers may remain within reach, even 80 years later.
• The episode ends on a somber note: “Ultimately, George and Ginny die not knowing what happened… the missing five kids are still the biggest mystery in this case.” (Kate & Paul, 67:35–69:50)

Memorable Close

• Kate: “This is not the traditional Christmas story that I enjoy, but this was, man, an important story. I feel like I really… learned a lot… We need a couple weeks off from this because this is tough.” (69:50)
• Paul (on his upcoming Hawaii trip): “I will be on a beach in Waikiki and I will raise a glass of bourbon thinking about you and looking forward to when we get back together.” (70:17)

For further evidence and images, follow @buriedbonespod on Instagram.

End of Summary