Errol Dobler (6:49)

It's good to see you. It's good to see you. Yeah. Super excited that you asked me on and this is a topic, right, because it doesn't matter who's listening, right. Business people are probably listening, but if the housewife or the house dad is listening, he's like, I could apply this at home to my 8 year old for sure. It is universal and that's what makes it so powerful.

Scott Joseph (7:11)

Yeah, I absolutely love it. All right, so let's get right into this. Like, all right, so you served as a Navy seal, right? Led the FBI counterterrorism operation. Counterterrorism operations. But now you're working with business and executive teams for the most part. What experiences you know most shaped your philosophy around decision making and problem solving. The.

Errol Dobler (7:39)

You know, when you start a leadership consulting business, the hardest part is to articulate at least yourself, well, what do I stand for? What am I going to talk to people about? Right? And if you can't articulate it, you don't have it. I know it intuitively. I can execute it. So that took a long time, Right. And so I had to say, okay, wait, what do I believe and why do I believe it? Why will it work for people? So I just had to reflect back. So I obviously made a lot of mistakes as a young leader, especially in the SEAL teams, but I was also had some very good strengths. And one of the things I built my reputation on was Errol Dobler. For all of his faults, once he gets on that battlefield, he can make Good, fast decisions, calmly. That's what I became known for, right? The troubles I would get in when I wasn't working were a whole different story, right? And that's all young man stuff. So I had to then reflect and say, okay, great, if I have that reputation, that's a great reputation to have. What am I thinking while all this is happening? And I just broke it down, right? Every scenario that I went through to include then the FBI, right? Because I was in a lot of, you know, and for me, combat situation is any situation where if you don't do it right, somebody could get hurt or killed. So knocking on a bad guy's door to me is combat. So I broke it down. I said, okay. I was always aware of how I was feeling. I was always aware of my emotion. Always. This scares the crap out of me. And what. And then I went through, I said, okay. And I always knew my intuitive action based on that emotion. So, for example, I knew that when I was angry, I tended to naturally lash out in a very unhealthy way. So when I felt anger, I knew, don't act on that. You've got to think about that a little more, okay? As opposed to stress or pressure, I knew that I automatically calmed down and saw things so I could trust that. So once I felt the stress, I'm like, go through your things. If I felt anger, my next step was, okay, lashing out is not your behavior. What's the right behavior for this situation? And I just had to decide. It is to be calm, it is to walk away, it is to ask questions. Whatever it was. I decided on a behavior and then I made a plan. That's smack right? Here's now this. I've got my emotion under control. I know how I need to act now. What is my plan to get through this? And then a reflection. That's it. That's what I did every single time in every situation. To include unknowingly. I suffered from traumatic brain injury for over 20 years without even knowing it. When I finally got diagnosed, the injury was so bad, the doctor said, you have to tell me about this process of yours. Because the part of your brain that is responsible for your emotional recognition does not work. It's dormant. There is no energy going to it. You should be destitute, you should be a homeless person because you technically have no capacity to process your emotions. So I walked him through this process and he goes, you saved your own life. And then it's a whole different story. There is now a non pharmaceutical treatment to Heal that intranasal insulin. But my point is, I was doing that without even knowing it because he asked. He goes, well, how often do you do this process? And I said, every time I walk into a room, I have to do it because I know if I don't, then I will just act intuitively on an emotion. And now I'm just flipping a coin whether I get a good. So that's how it happened. Right. That's how I developed it. And I had to just do a lot of reflection on what was good about the things I did and what was bad and how did I take advantage of and then advantage of the good and mitigate the bad. And that was it. That was the process. Might even serve. I answered your question so well.

Scott Joseph (12:00)

We're going to get into specifics like. Yeah, I think you answered it because I'm asking. What I was asking is like, what experiences did you have that translate over? Right.

Errol Dobler (12:11)

And it was all the combat experience and it was all the TBI stuff. And then applying it in a very methodical fashion to every.

Scott Joseph (12:19)

Well, you said something that's. I, I think, and I've heard you say this before and, but it's from the moment you said it, I remember thinking, yeah, that that's legit. If you didn't prioritize and plan with a good strategy, people die when, when you're going on a mission and you're on the SEAL team and I, I'm assuming they don't put you through that type of training because it's easy. One mess up. It could cost a lot of lives. And so the, the, what you took from that, that experience easily translates to business because the best I can, I can almost guarantee you the best business strategists and planners, the ones writing the process, right? Here's the strategy, here's what it looks like, here's how it's going to get played out. They don't, they're not as much pressure as they're on under. They're not under the same. It's not life or death pressure that you were under.

Errol Dobler (13:23)

Right. But it's the same pressure to get it right. And, and, and I, and I'm glad you brought that up because I get that a lot. Hey, what you did was life or death. I just manage money. I'm like, we're not, it's not a competition. Okay. Because what you do is your figurative life or death, right? It is the life of your business, it is the life of your salary. That means the life or death of your Family life. So I have to remind people, don't undercut the importance of what you do. It's not a challenge. I tell the stories I tell because they're so impactful. Like, nobody gets bored. It's like, holy crap. Right. So I've got your attention because it's a very extreme story, whichever one I tell you. But then we go to now, here's how it applies to you. So stop comparing the consequences. It's, that's not what we're doing. Right. And I think it's important for everybody to recognize that what is your stressor might be my safe place and vice versa. So it's not a competition. We, the process meets you where you are.

Scott Joseph (14:27)

Yeah, that makes sense. So let me ask you, and I want to get into this process that you've developed. But before we do, I got a couple quick questions. I, I feel like a lot of leaders today really struggle with indecision. So in all your coaching, have you been able to identify first off, do you see that? And then what's some of the root causes to that that you think are there?

Errol Dobler (14:56)

Yeah, it all the time. Right. I, I, I, I overthink it. I'm afraid to take the, you know, all the things that you hear. Right.

Scott Joseph (15:04)

And they're paralysis through an app from analysis.

Errol Dobler (15:06)

Yeah. And, and you know, then either nothing gets done and that creates its whole new set of problems, or I just then, oh, let's do this, you know. And so again, we break down the process. So my first set of questions is around emotions. Well, how do, how do you feel when you're up against this? I feel nervous. I feel afraid. Why? I feel afraid I'll make the wrong decision. I'll feel afraid that I'll get exposed to somebody who doesn't know what to do. You know, the list goes on. Right. And so for everybody listening, they're going through their own list. Like, oh, yeah, that's the first thing. Like, okay, cool. Then you have to validate for people it's okay to feel that way. It's just a feeling. You are allowed to feel insecure. You are allowed to feel less than at that moment. You are, because that's what has happened. But then my next question to them is, now, what do you do when you feel that way? They're like, I just told you, I can't make a decision. I just sit there. Great, what do you want to do? I want to be able to make a decision. Okay, that is what we're going to work on. It's so Simple. Okay. But they've walked through the process. I get, oh, my God, I feel this way. Errol just told me it's okay to feel that way. I didn't know that. I thought I was supposed to hide that shit. Right. And then I identified. Here's what I do when I feel that way. Is that a good behavior or bad behavior? I don't like it. Let's. Let's pick a new one. Well, I want to make a decision. Great. That is now your new behavior to make decisions. But I don't know how to make a decision. Here is smack. Here is your process to help you make the decision. Right. And the new behavior is to prioritize. I will. I got a million things to do. What's. What's the one I'm putting off? Because that's probably the most important one. And now follow the planning process. It will set you free. Okay. But it starts with acknowledging where that indecision comes from. People just need to hear it's okay to feel that way and identify how they're acting. And I don't like that behavior about myself. And now we're just going to work on making decisions, and that's it. So now it's when they're working with me, like, okay, Scott, what's the issue at hand today? I got to fire somebody. Great. Why haven't you done it? All the BS that you're going to tell me. You said we were going to act on things, so now we're acting on it. What's the plan? We go through smack. When are you going to do it? Tomorrow. Done. Call me after it's over. Right. That's it. Somebody has got to help you get through that block.

Scott Joseph (18:03)

It's such a good. Errol, that's such a good analogy right there. Because I think there's a lot of leaders that feel. Don't feel comfortable with conflict or conflict management. And letting someone go probably is right there at the top of that list. No one likes to do that. So, yeah. It's probably the number one reason you hang on to people that you should not be hanging on to is you just don't want to deal with it.

Errol Dobler (18:28)

Yeah. Because you're. Because it's hard. But here's the one thing I say to people that's outside the process when that comes up. Right. Because I don't want to let them go. They can articulate why all day long. I need to let him go. The consequences. I just say, welcome to leadership. I don't know what you want me to say from here, but that's it. That's the game. This is what you signed up for. And if you can, that's fine too. You just now know you can't be in this position of leadership and be effective. That's allowed. Think he can. You're just afraid. Now we go back to the beginning. I am afraid. That's my emotion. What I do, rinse and repeat.

Scott Joseph (19:09)

So I want to. I want to go back to this, I guess, emotional awareness that you brought up. And you've talked us through a little bit about how it applies in this everyday life situation. But walk us through or explain to us how it works in what most people would say is a high pressure situation or environment, like, you know, in combat.

Errol Dobler (19:36)

Right? I mean, I'll give you an example. I'll give you a good example. Not that I would give you a bad example, but I'll give you one. Because some are.

Scott Joseph (19:44)

Some are better than others.

Errol Dobler (19:47)

So what, what everybody's not gonna like to hear is this, is this becomes the ability to do that. The ability to think calmly under pressure, make good, fast decisions, right? Any idiot can solve a problem and leave a path of destruction behind them, right? That's not leadership. Leadership is solving that hard problem quickly, calmly, and having the machine still moving forward. Right. It is a. It is a cultural thing, right? And to have it become a cultural thing, you know, you need to work on it and it's got to start from a place that's not good, Right. I can't give you the three things to do to automatically become good under pressure. I can give you the process and I can walk you through for a couple of months, right? And then we keep working on. So I'll give you an example. When I was in the FBI, I worked counterterrorism, and this was at the height of the war on Terror. I was there. I was in New York City in 2003 to. Until I transferred to, I don't know, 2010, something like that, right? That was, that was it. The war on terror was on. The FBI was now doing its thing in New York City, the epicenter. That's where everybody wanted to attack. So it was high pressure, right? So me and my partner got a lead that this guy in the Bronx knew somebody who we needed to talk to, right? Whatever. The details don't matter, but we needed to go talk to a bad guy who was not, did not know he was on our radar. And we were just going to surprise him by knocking on his door. And we knew he could be A violent guy. So me and my partner walk up the door and I went through the process, even unknowingly, right? I go, I'm scared shitless. This guy's going to come out with a broken bottle and we're going to have to kill him. And he's like, so am I. That's the situation. What's the mission, right? We talk through what are we trying to accomplish on this thing. All right, here are the things we're going to do, the actions, right? What happens if this goes wrong? Contingencies, okay? So we started preparing, visualizing, but making our plan before we even got there. Acknowledging what we're afraid of, should we even do it. Situation, set of circumstances, dictating need for action. We just went through all the things that can go wrong. Are we still going to knock on this door? Yes. Fine. Knock on the door, identify ourselves. The guy goes, hold on, I'll be right there. And I look, I go, he's coming out to shoot us. I go, should we bounce? And he goes, let's play it out, but let's be ready, right? Constantly going through the scenarios, we just went from one plan to another. When we're doing that, we're focusing on what we need to do, not how hyped we are, okay? That automatic guy comes out, opens the door, he's got a broken bottle. I said I was afraid that was going to. The guy has a broken bottle, and he starts coming after us. So we both pull our weapon. Pulling your weapon is about the scariest thing in the world to do. But we had talked about if that happens, we're going to have to draw down. And then when you draw down, you have to be ready to pull the trigger. That's it. So we walked into this going, we might have to kill a guy. The ability to articulate what you're about to do, what you will do if is a stress reducer in and of itself gives you someplace else to focus than the emotion. And it gives you confidence that you've got a plan to handle the situation. So automatically you reduced stress. This guy came out, he comes out. Now we're in a narrow hallway. So me and my partner are like this. I go, get behind me. I got it. He goes, okay. And there's a thing called the seven foot rule. All right, seven feet, or is it 21ft? It's 21ft. If somebody gets within 21ft now you're at risk of them getting to you before you could shoot them. That's it, right? That's Based on data.

Scott Joseph (24:16)

Seven yards. Seven yards. Yeah. Yeah.

Errol Dobler (24:19)

Okay. And we're already inside of that. And so now I'm going through a new plan because he's walking towards me. All right? Situation. That's the situation. What is my mission? I had to go through several iterations on the spot. I said, my mission is to get him to stop walking and just to talk to me for a second. That was it. And I went through what my actions would be. Most importantly, what's the contingency? He keeps coming. And that answer was, now I've got to pull the trigger. Okay. And he starts walking towards me. I said, man, if you take another step, I'm going to be forced to shoot you. I'm just telling you that. Just give me a second. Give me one second just to talk to you. And he goes, okay, mission complete. Got it. And now I said, here's why we're here. Right? And I went, I'm not here for you, okay? I'm not here for you. I said, as a matter of fact, I'm not going to arrest you for what you just did. I'm not. We can sit, drop watch. And I put it down. I put my holster in, but I knew he was behind me, right. So I was going to go down, but it was part of the contingency. It's my point, okay? And I said, I just put it down. So we dropped it. I go now. I go, we're not done. I go, because I still have a gun. You can't come closer. Let's talk from here. And he goes, okay. And then we talked. And so. But my point is that was just the process. That's how we stayed calm. Making a plan, acknowledging, first I'm scared and now what? That's fine to be scared. You are allowed to be scared, but you're just not allowed to freeze up. You got to have a plan of action that will help you move forward with all that stuff. So makes sense, right?

Scott Joseph (26:20)

Yeah. So when you. When you make the switch over to coaching these executive teams and these pro athletes and you develop smac, I'm assuming that you just went back and said, all right, and you thought of a scenario like that. Right. And said, all right, what was my process for evaluating some type of complex problem and how can I break this down to do it in business? And you came up with. Is that accurate?

Errol Dobler (26:47)

Yeah. So smack is a smac, is the. The planning process we use in the sale themes. So all I did was just so simple.

Scott Joseph (26:57)

Hold on. So it's actually called the exact same thing.

Errol Dobler (27:00)

Yep.

Scott Joseph (27:00)

Okay. Beautiful. Love it. All right.

Errol Dobler (27:02)

Yep. And it's. All I did was modify it and simplify it a little bit. Right. It gets very complicated in a military operation, as you can imagine, but that's all I did. I was like, this is the planning process for everything. This is literally the process we use to make sure we achieve victory, that people stay alive, and that we're, you know, we're good enough moving forward. Right. That's it. So why wouldn't this work for everything? And it does.

Scott Joseph (27:33)

Yeah. I put. I highlight. Listen, I highlighted it. We have a ebook on. I don't. Did you download the ebook?

Errol Dobler (27:38)

I saw.

Scott Joseph (27:40)

All right, so I gave you a big highlight. I even put it in a nice call out box. I don't know if you appreciate it, but I love it. I love this process. So let's walk. You know, let's break it down for everybody so they can actually learn from it and. And then start working through it and try to apply it.

Errol Dobler (28:01)

And. And here's what I'll tell you. And I actually work with Tom Drexler a lot. And as we were going through smack, right, Because Tom's been at the business Bourbon Cigars. He's like, yeah, I like it. We went through it. He's like, oh, we're kind of doing it wrong at Business Bourbon and Cigars. I go, we're not doing it wrong. There's just not enough. We're introducing a concept. Right. And that's all we can do with the amount of time that we have. Because his point was, this is way more complicated and harder than I thought. I go, it's very hard. It is the most simple process to do something that's very hard. Right. So. And I just want everybody to know that, because I love introducing it to Business Bourbon Cigars, but you know me, I want to get on the mic and walk everybody through it, but we don't have time.

Scott Joseph (28:53)

Well, now, perfect example, right? When we went through the first one. The reality is it makes no sense at business Bourbon Cigars to work through the contingency, the command and the communication style, because that all has to be done back at the office with your teams anyways. And so that would be an example of a modification that clearly simplifies it at the event versus what you're probably dealing with in real life at work.

Errol Dobler (29:20)

Yeah. And here's where it gets hard, though, right? So let's. We'll break it down. Situation, set of circumstances, dictating a need for action. That is the that is the situation. What does that mean? I give you a scenario. This thing is happening. The response is either, so what? So what? We don't need to do anything, right? We've got a competitor moving right across the street from us. Set of circumstances dictating need for action. Maybe. Maybe the answer is who cares? We don't care. We do our thing. Oh great. We don't have to worry about it. Good to know. Good to know that we don't have to waste our time worrying or acting on something more likely. And it could be an opportunity. Right. It's a set of circumstances dictating need for action. So first thing is, is anybody saying who cares? Because if you are good, move on. You've just saved yourself a lot of time. More often than not, it's something we need to deal with. So somebody gives you the scenario. Tariffs are being put on all our goods. Set of circumstances dictating a need for action. Well, yet we got to do something about this. Okay, what do we got to do? Fine. What is our mission? If you have identified that you need to act on something based on the situation, then you have to define what you want to accomplish. Great. The tariffs are being put on us. What is our mission? Our mission is to not have the cost go to the customer. Our mission is to not let this sink us. Right, Whatever, it doesn't matter. But that's the thing. You've got to decide what you want to accomplish based on the situation. You can have several missions. You can't have one big long run on sentence that has the missions kind of mixed in there. They've got to be broken out. Okay. Because there will be several things. Now typically you'll have to prioritize. We got to do this mission first, then this one, then I think a.

Scott Joseph (31:21)

Good visual that people can put in their heads. If anybody's familiar with the IT world, right, they've got this big 90 day project and within that project they've got what you're going to define as missions, right? And they call them sprints, which are two week things. So in other words, they're just many projects that as we go, they get me closer to the big one.

Errol Dobler (31:48)

That's right. And, and, and so, and people tell me that like, oh, Errol, we, we, we do sprints. Reiterate, I go, great, as long as you have situation, mission actions, command, contingency, communication inside your sprint, you're good. Right? That's it. Okay, so now you've got to have your mission. I'll give you an Example, on my side job, I am the CEO of a company called svi. It's a deep tech company and we, we are in. In our fundraising rounds. Okay. But we've got a product that nobody else has. It's a man portable facial recognition that goes out to range that doesn't exist anywhere in the world. But we've also got this technology that we're putting on a chip that enhances this LiDAR capability. It's. It's quite fascinating. My point is, my question as I came on to see CEO was, well, why are we having so much trouble getting people to invest? This sounds revolutionary, right? Set of circumstances dictating need for action. We just can't seem to get anybody to understand. Great, tell me your pitch. And I'm like, oh, this doesn't make any sense right now. This, these guys are brilliant. The mission was we've got to hone this pitch. That's it. Nothing else happens until we get this pitch right. And it wasn't revolutionary. It was just, what's the mission? Based on the situ. The situation is, we're jumbled. We got people diving. It's not the organization in our pitch. Great. The mission is to solidify the pitch. Yeah, but, yeah, but nothing. Because nothing happens if we don't have a good pitch. We spent two weeks rehearsing every day new decks. How many fucking decks, Errol, is this going to take? It's going to take as many till it gets. Right, right? That's it. Because that is our mission. And I give us two weeks and we got it. It's not perfect, but that was the mission, Right? So if you have a mission, you need to have a set of actions that you need to undertake to accomplish that mission. So in my example with the pitch, our actions are going to be every day we're going to, you know, whatever. They were right. Every day, everybody put out the things that we need to do. Everybody. You simplify what this is, right? These are the actions that we're going to take that are going to simplify the pitch. Okay, great. What's next? And this all sounds like common sense, and it is. But now as you're listening to this, think about how often you do this. Okay? Right. So what's next? Well, if you have a set of actions, we need to have a deadline. Now you bring up the IT world. They are notorious for not putting deadlines on themselves.

Scott Joseph (34:41)

Yeah.

Errol Dobler (34:41)

Hey, man, we just.

Scott Joseph (34:43)

The good teams do. But, but you're 80%. Yeah, 80, 20 rule. Yeah, yeah. You're 100%.

Errol Dobler (34:51)

The good teams do. That's why they're good teams.

Scott Joseph (34:56)

That's right.

Errol Dobler (34:57)

They don't even know. So, okay, great. So in my example, you will do this action, and it'll be completed by this date. And it might be the end of the day tomorrow, might be this afternoon, whatever it is. And then the other. Okay, so now you have your actions, which also includes your due date. And then what did I just do? C command, who's in charge of that action? Right, Scott, you're doing that. You're doing all the research on. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, great. And it's due tomorrow. Okay, communication. The next C. When will we meet to go over the status of the actions? We will meet at the end of every day for 15 minutes. Over. Zoom. These people will be on the call, and we'll update. We'll do that every day for the next two weeks. That's our communication plan. And finally, see, contingencies. What can go wrong? Okay, this is the bread and butter to everything. If you have good contingencies, all you do, a number of things happen. First, mindset. If you're thinking about all the things that can go wrong after you've put your good plan together, right? Hey, if this. If we do these things, this will work. If everything goes perfect, Right? This will work. We know that's not always the case. What can go wrong? You start constantly thinking, talk about what can go wrong. Now all of a sudden, you've got two things you're planning in advance. Well, this could go wrong. Great. Well, let's get a little side plan for that. Oh, that went wrong. Well, we know what to do. No issues, keep moving through. Also allows you the ability to not get freaked out when something goes wrong that you weren't expecting. What do I mean by that, Covid? Right. All of a sudden, on March 21, the world shut down.

Scott Joseph (36:59)

Right?

Errol Dobler (37:01)

That was it. And now you say, what do we do? We didn't plan for this. Well, all you have is a new situation, a new set of circumstances dictating the need for action. And you've got to make new missions to adjust for what's happening. So it's just a mindset. Oh, we didn't expect that. That's just a new situation. Great. Rinse and repeat. What's our mission? What are the actions? Once we get that done, now we're back on track. That's the process. That is the smack process.

Scott Joseph (37:34)

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So this community, it's real, it's welcoming and it's built for entrepreneurs who want to level up, learn and grow together. You're going to walk away not only with a game plan for your business, but also a group of genuine, high caliber relationships that are going to take your business even further than anything you've ever imagined. So I've got a special offer for you today. The first five people that are watching or listening to this episode are going to receive 50% off their ticket to attend the next retreat. Don't miss out. This opportunity is limited. Spots always fill up fast. So visit me+Ultra.com BBC50 or click the link in the show notes and you'll get a 50% discount code. Then secure your spot for Business Bourbon and Cigars Leadership Retreat. You know, I was saying earlier that we normally don't cover the C's in Business Bourbon Cigars, the Communication, the contingencies and. And who's in command, because it needs to be done with the team. But what I love about the process there and how it works within smack, it's almost like a lot of contingencies or potential problems come up. Because let's say you go in and, all right, you've worked to identify your situations. And by the way, I want to come back to that. In, in, in, in. Because you do a good job of articulating. You know, we can come up with all kinds of projects as business leaders, but we don't have the capacity to get them all done. So I want to come back to that. But, you know, as I was saying, we, we come up with our situations and then our missions and why we chose that mission, right? And then we come up with our action plan. But when we get into our tables and we start working with other peers in the actual mastermind part of it, you might Errol, hey, that's a great idea. I did a similar plan, but I got to tell you, when we did that, we ran into problems here, here and here. And all of a sudden, if I'm. What you should be doing, and when what the most people do is they start writing down, we gotta be prepared for this, this. And you're almost getting a lot of these contingencies right there at your table with all these experts. And so I love it. And then, of course, you go back to your teams and you can plan for, for, for those things. But go. I want to go back to the situation for a second. Because as business leaders, it's easy to come up with all kinds of ideas, new products, services, whatever, it might be a new process improvement. But our teams only have a certain amount of capacity to get things done. And we've. You and I have talked about this a lot. How many times have you seen companies, and this is rhetorical, but how many times have you seen companies, they come up with an idea, here's our plan to do it, and within sometimes weeks, but let's just say a month or two, it's done, no one completes it, and it becomes the culture that we don't complete projects. And the reason, usually a lot of the times is because we have so many projects going on, nothing gets done. And so when you're going, what is your rule of thumb when you've got all these situations? How do you identify the mission or missions that need to actually be planned out and worked on? How do you prioritize?

Errol Dobler (42:47)

It's a multifaceted question. First, the Situation, Right. People get. People gloss over the situation a lot. This is what happens. I see business, Bourbon, cigars. People will say, what's the mission? The mission is we want to grow our business. No, that's not the mission or that's not the situation. I'm sorry, what is the situation? Situation is we want to grow our business. No, that's not the situation. The situation is you're not making enough money the way you're doing business right now. That's the situation. Oh, shoot. What's the mission? We got it. We got to expand. We got to grow. That's the mission. Based on. You're not making them. Right. So people conflate them, which is, by.

Scott Joseph (43:25)

The way, one of the great reasons we love having Errol there, because he helps people through this. So go ahead and.

Errol Dobler (43:33)

It's hard. People get insulted. I'm like, that's not situation. That's your mission. Why are you doing that? Well, because we suck. Okay, now we're getting somewhere, right?

Scott Joseph (43:43)

Where's your situation?

Errol Dobler (43:45)

Where's your situation? Nobody knows what the hell we're doing. Your.

Scott Joseph (43:50)

Your mission is not to suck.

Errol Dobler (43:53)

Yeah. So there's a couple of things, right? The first is obvious. Look, you've got to use common sense when you're prioritizing, okay? Look, what's the hardest thing? What's the scariest thing? That's probably your priority. Okay? That said, we've got these initiatives. We think they're all important, which can happen. Which one do we pick? Which one can. All I say is smack it, right? And you go through the actions, and the big thing is going to be command, right? Okay, now you've got four names on the first set on the first mission. Four names doing the actions. Now go smack the second one. Oh, we've got the same four names for those. Go smack the third one. Ah, same people. We literally don't have enough people or time to do these at the same time. We don't. We could actually do two at the same time, though. I. You just said now you. All you have to do is decide which one and then why that one? Right? Will that one solve a lot of other problems? Because that's the one you need to focus on. All right? So when you're not sure, smack it and you're going to see command and. Or time. We need this amount of time to do this action. And then you go to the second one. You're like, we need this amount of time. Oh, my God. And we've got one name doing four actions. We don't have. Why can't we do it? Because we don't have the people. So we got to pick one. Then it's prioritize, execute to completion, move on to the next. That's the hardest part for people especially.

Scott Joseph (45:40)

Yeah.

Errol Dobler (45:41)

They feel like they're not doing everything they can be doing. Well, no, but what about other things?

Scott Joseph (45:46)

As a leader, if you really care, you just want. You want all your problems solved. So you. If you know they're out there, you're like, I. People used to make fun of me, all right, Errol. I used. They used to tell me, people on my team used to sit there and say, everything to Scott's a top priority.

Errol Dobler (46:03)

That's right. That's right. That was good feedback.

Scott Joseph (46:07)

I didn't listen well back then, though.

Errol Dobler (46:09)

Listen right back then. But again, I'll give you the other. Another example, right, with this company, svi, that I'm working the pitch. There is so much work to be done. And I said, nothing else gets done until we get this pitch done. That's it. That's the priority. We don't move on to the next thing. They got to their credit, it's a seasoned bunch of people. They're like, ok, you're right. That's it. And then we got it done. And then we moved on to the other stuff. And it didn't seem like that big a deal. It seemed like a huge, big deal inside of those two weeks. Like, yeah, but we're not doing this other stuff. I just. All I had said is, you gotta trust me. This is why you hired me. You gotta trust me. And sure enough, at the end of two weeks, I was like, hey, that wasn't that big of a deal. And now we got this out of the way and we can move on. Welcome to leadership. You've got to get. You got to. You got to hold the people, you got to hold the line.

Scott Joseph (47:10)

And it doesn't. Just because you got one done doesn't mean you automatically go to the second one or whatever one was the top priority at that time. Because a new issue, a new situation might come up that's all of a sudden trumps that, right? It might, yeah.

Errol Dobler (47:24)

And that's fine. But you've all got to be able to articulate it. Hey, this new thing came up. Let's do that. Stop. Okay. Are we willing to stop the previous priority? Because that's what's going to happen and now it just creates good, logical discussion. Right. Is this situation important enough to trump what we were just doing? If everybody Agrees, I go, do you live with it?

Scott Joseph (47:47)

You know, I think I speak for almost every business leader out there or owner. You know, it would be great if teams could proactively solve small and big problems without. Why do they always have to get. Why do I, I say always, why do these situations? Because everybody should. If you're running an organization, the data should be transparent in my, you know, if, if our KPIs or our goals are here, then every team should have some type of KPI or measurement that shows a result. We're either helping our team is helping or hurting the overall big goal. Right. So, and if you're not, then why aren't you figuring out the situations and then coming up with missions and smacking those things? So my question to you is, what's the best way that a business owner or leader could create the type of environment. Right. Where teams started solving problems proactively instead of always just pushing, pushing them up to management.

Errol Dobler (48:56)

Pushing them to management, or waiting to be told what to do?

Scott Joseph (48:59)

Correct.

Errol Dobler (49:00)

Right.

Scott Joseph (49:00)

Yeah.

Errol Dobler (49:01)

And that's, that's a big one. Right. I see the beauty of my job with Ice Cold Leader is I don't see too many unique problems. They're usually pretty much the same. Right. So it gives you a lot of validation to tell people. And, you know, when people say, well, what industry do you work? I'm like, I work every industry. I don't have a niche because the problems are always the same. I work with the problems. But to answer your question, that now becomes a culture issue. This is where we use culture and smack at the same time. So the first thing is the leader's got to be able to articulate, here's what we're doing, here's our culture. Everybody's just sitting around waiting to be told what to do. And we say, we're going to do something, we never do it. That's what we do. For better, for worse, that is our culture. And everybody will go, yep. Right. So you've got to be able to articulate what's happening, what you're doing, and it's, it's painful. So that's good. That's the first thing. What will our new culture be? Our new behavior? We are going to work on initiative and autonomy. I want people taking initiative. Great. How do you get people to take initiative? Right. This is it. It's great to say, I want my people to take initiative. We work with initiative and autonomy. Go. The answer. That's not the answer. Because the question is, how do I do that? Now here's the answer. So you've established what you want, you've based it on what you've seen. So now that's how you get your buy in, right? Because everybody goes, yep, that's what we do. And now we say, fine, smack the leader for now. Identifies the situation and the mission. Here's what's happening, here's what we want to accomplish. And then says, scott, come back and tell me how we're going to do it. That's it. By definition, I have just instilled initiative and autonomy by saying, now you tell me how we're going to do this. We're not looking to trick them. You can introduce the elements of smac. You can say, hey, I'm going to, I want to hear the actions when their date, who's in charge of what, when. We're all going to review this stuff and some things that can go wrong, right? You're, you're kind of just giving them the answer to the test and then they come back and they give you the worst plan in the history of the world. But guess what? They made a plan.

Scott Joseph (51:21)

That's right.

Errol Dobler (51:22)

We've started, okay? We have started the process.

Scott Joseph (51:28)

Now sometimes, hey, sometimes a bad plan or idea is what spurs a good one.

Errol Dobler (51:34)

It's a start. It's a new culture.

Scott Joseph (51:37)

That's right.

Errol Dobler (51:37)

Now here's the question. We get Errol. What happens if they come to me with this awful plan that won't work? I, I, I'm going to crush their spirit. If I am like, that's dumb. That will never work. Here's what we're going to do. What do I do then? Contingency questions. If you know, as the leader, this won't work. If you, because you know for a reason, you've been there, you've done it, right? But you're trying to learn to delegate and you just ask questions. Oh, I see. You want to, I see. You want to have us all jump off the bridge. Well, what will we do if we all die? This is a ridiculous example. Right, but, Right, but, oh, what will you do if we all die? As opposed to, that will never work because we'll all die if we jump off the bridge.

Scott Joseph (52:25)

Right?

Errol Dobler (52:25)

Two different things. Yeah, If I ask you that. Okay, cool. What will you do if we all die when we jump off the bridge? I'm making you think still. I never thought of that. Okay, Is that action, is that going to be a good action for us? No. Come back to me in an hour. Well, that's it.

Scott Joseph (52:42)

Let me tell you what I love about that, gosh, that just is a leader that makes. You're no longer that leader. That's just because when we force our opinions, our way of doing it and all, all leaders, if they've got any fight in them at all, probably influence very strongly what they want to get done. But that's just such an elegant way, non threatening way to get it done. And I, I go back to. Let's just say it's not business, right? All right, what do we do? What are you going to do if we all die? That might be some type of like now it's not smart ass question. Because in your situation, in some type of, you know, war type of conflict, you still got to accomplish the mission. And so the reality is that is a possibility. We could jump off this bridge and die. Then what are you going to do? How? What's your plan to accomplish the mission? And it forces people to. And so you can translate that easily to business, right? Our job, our mission is to increase sales by 20%. What happens if your strategy does not produce more leads, does not close more deals, does not whatever, right.

Errol Dobler (53:56)

One of your actions is, and let's make ridiculous examples. So it's just easy, okay? One of your actions to increase sales is to go to each one of our customer and tell them how dumb they are. Okay. Okay, Great. Good. I hear you. I see where you're going with this. What happens if you insult everybody and they cut us off as a customer? What happens if that. If you insult them and they say we don't want to do business? Well, what will we do? Well, we won't do that. Is that not a possibility? Well, it is a possibility. Great. What will you do if that happens?

Scott Joseph (54:29)

What's our contingency?

Errol Dobler (54:31)

Shit. Well, if we do that, then we lose all our customers. Okay, let's not do that. All right. Come up with a new plan.

Scott Joseph (54:40)

Love it.

Errol Dobler (54:40)

That's it.

Scott Joseph (54:41)

Love it. Right?

Errol Dobler (54:42)

The contingency will tell you whether you want to go forward with that or not. Can you live with the results?

Scott Joseph (54:47)

All right, so some of the early. I got. I want to ask this. So when we go, let's go back to business. Bourbon Cigars. Remember the early times when you were teaching everybody this? Right? And we start working through it and to your point, the Tom Drexler, by, by the way, phenomenal Me plus Ultra member. And just a quick story on him, how long.

Errol Dobler (55:06)

He's a killer.

Scott Joseph (55:07)

Oh, this man is plumbing H vac electric through an eight year process. I love telling this. Eight year process, eight years of growth. Went from top line revenue, three to four million dollars. Right? And in eight years, got to 56 million, a hundred percent residential. And I always emphasize that because it's not like he's getting these big commercial jobs. It was all.

Errol Dobler (55:40)

It's un.

Scott Joseph (55:40)

It is. And it's all based on just continually working his process. And so how long have you been working with him now?

Errol Dobler (55:48)

We, We've been. We've been talking for a couple months. Right? We're. We're kind of. Yeah, we're kind. But. But here's. And I want to bring this up because he's a great example. Errol, what can you possibly teach Tom Drexler based on that? Right? He's clearly got it. And when he said, hey, you know, I kind of want to hear what you got going, I thought that to myself, I got what? I don't get what. And, but here was the deal. What he realized was because now he's. He's buying some businesses, right? But he doesn't want to be in the weeds all the time. And what he realized was he wasn't very good at delegation. He just saw a problem and fixed it, and that was it. And he's not looking, right? I said, I go, tom, we got to figure out something so you can start enjoying the fruits of your labor, right? You don't need to be in the weeds. And all it was was you set the situation in mission. You got to tell your people how they're going to do it. And now all you have to do is get on a call a couple times a week to get an update on their plan. Tom is brilliant, right? And he goes, holy crap, I never thought of it like that. So there's always something, right? There's always something. And now that's really hard for him to do, to instill initiative and autonomy in his people by simply saying, here's the mission. You got to come back to me with the plan.

Scott Joseph (57:23)

Yeah, I. What you're saying is, and it's so hard when you're dealing with something because you're in it and sometimes surrounding your. That's why it's so important to surround yourself with the right people. Because, you know, for him to go to you, you. You're not in his business, but you can just quickly. Because you're not in it. In his business. Every day you can sit there and look and hear what he's saying, and it's easier for you to sit there and say and help him because you're like this is what you're trying to accomplish. This is your mission, so why wouldn't you just do this? And he's a smart enough guy to figure that, but when you're in it, sometimes you just. You can't see the forest because of all the trees. Right?

Errol Dobler (58:11)

Yeah. And. And here's. Here's the beauty. And this is a little self promotion, but it's important. Here's the beauty of the process. Because when I went through that with Tom, we started with emotions. We started with, what is your culture? What do you do? We started with, what's your behavior? And I know this is going to happen now because I've done it a gazillion times. I knew what he needed to do on our first call, but if I said to him, tom, you got to start delegating, and here's how he'd be like, okay. But what we did was we went through the process and he came to it himself. He's like, I micromanage. I. I do it all myself. I don't know how to delegate. I was like, okay, how are we going to fix that? He's like, I don't know. Smack. Load up the smack. And he was like, jesus, right? It was. So he had to come to it himself. That's. That's where. That's where my process separates it from everything else out there. I put you through the pain. I know what you need because I've seen it a million times. But if I don't make you come up with it yourself, you may not buy in. Once you come to it yourself, you're like, oh, this is what I got to do, what I need you for. I'm like, oh, you don't need me, I guess, right?

Scott Joseph (59:25)

So I'm going to start incorporating this into our Me plus ultra virtual meetings. Because, like, when I do the hour prep call with someone that might be in the hot seat, I don't. I don't give as much advice on the virtual meetings because I'm with them an hour ahead, just one on one a week prior. And so. But I don't ask these. I don't phrase it this way. Like, a lot of times, I'm like, you should probably do this. I'm going to approach it differently based on this. I wrote that down. I wrote it down.

Errol Dobler (59:57)

And it's a skill because I start getting leaders to say, I said, you got to ask more questions. And the question is not, hey, have you considered doing it this way? Which is your way? That's not the question. That is A question. The other question is not, why are you so fucked up? That's not. That's not the question.

Scott Joseph (60:16)

Yeah.

Errol Dobler (60:17)

The question needs to be, what will happen if this goes wrong? Because you know it's not going to work.

Scott Joseph (60:22)

Yeah, I love it.

Errol Dobler (60:23)

That's the question.

Scott Joseph (60:24)

So if you remember back when we first started doing this, we were pretty. I think people assume, because we're trying to teach them how to work it, the process, that we're so rigid with it. So talk to me about where flexibility kind of works. Fits in there.

Errol Dobler (60:44)

So. Yeah, and that's. And it. That is a great point. Because what I tell people is first thing when I put you through the paces, right? So when we do smack in my course, in my eight week course, we spend a week on each element, right? And I don't say, right, we got the video. They watch the videos. Okay, here it is. I got it. I don't say, build a smack plan. I don't do that. What I say is, every time you do one of the elements of smack, you know, log it in our app, right? Log. What does that mean? Every time you're talking about a set of actions, log it. Every time you mention a mission or every time you're rolling over a situation, log it. What I want them to realize is they do most of this stuff already without even realizing it. Okay. And they're like, wow, I do do this a lot. And I go, right, what don't you do a lot? Like contingencies. Communicate. Right. They'll always have something they don't do a lot. And now we say, great, now focus on doing those things. What I tell people is smack is a guideline. Account for the elements. Not don't have a big dissertation on each element, account for it. So in other words, situation. Okay, we got that. We're all clear on that. I don't need to talk mission. Nope, those are clear. Got it. Actions. Know those. Those. We got those. Okay, good. Contingencies. We haven't hit contingencies. Okay. Hey, guys. Right? What will you do if this goes wrong? Oh, we haven't talked about command. Hey, just quick question. Who's doing these things? Oh, good. Right. So I tell people, it doesn't matter how you apply it. You could write sma, ccc and cool. Or you can just go through your head, be like, did we account for that? Do we account for that? Do we account. Okay, Good God. It doesn't matter. Just know those are the. Those are the only elements that matter in mission accomplishment. That's it. When you're in a meeting, Errol. Our meetings suck. Write down sma, CCC and just click off. When one of those things is mentioned in the meeting, you are going to be distraught to realize, oh my God, I haven't checked one of the elements of SMAC. What did we just discuss for 45 minutes? Right? So the flexibility is just that, how you apply it. But I hate to tell you, you got to apply, right? The art is whatever your personality says, give them the answers to the test. Say you're going to ask your actions, your whatever, it doesn't matter. Do it your way. Yeah, but that's the only way to do it.

Scott Joseph (63:29)

So for planning, so let me ask you, so if there's somebody listening or watching, I don't know, they feel overwhelmed. Maybe they just feel like they've hit a plateau or stuck in any way. Most of them probably, if they really self assessed, probably would say that they react to situations more than they are being proactive. What's the first step you'd advise them to take?

Errol Dobler (63:56)

Okay, let me do it with an example. Okay. I've got a client and they're big. Like for example, they were responsible for building the Raider Stadium, right. That did all the electrical work and all the engineering and all that stuff, right? And when I was talking to the project managers, they were like, Errol, you gotta teach us how to fight these fires. Because all we do is fight fires. I'm like, I can do that. But the question is why are these fires started? And so then they explained, well, the statement of work, right? There's they thought one thing, we thought the other, we didn't include it. So now we got to hit them with the change order, right? Yep.

Scott Joseph (64:36)

And which, which drives up cost and makes things take longer to get done.

Errol Dobler (64:41)

Yeah, take longer to get done. The relationship is doing this. So they're stuck. They're like we, it's. I don't know what to do anymore because this is all we do. And we. I said, why are these starting? We. Iterate, iterate. It got back to there's not enough detail in the statement to work or the proposals, the initial proposals, they were half passing them, right. Boilerplate. Throwing a number out there, right? Hey. And then dealing with the problems on the, on the back end. So. And that it was, it was getting them stuck. The project, they didn't know what to do. And I said, look, you're in a bad spot for sure, but you can go back to the beginning to a degree on this. You can go back to the client and say, here's why we're getting into all this. Because our statement of work was vague. Our fault, Our fault. Can we. Instead of now us hitting you with these bills, can we just go through it again? Let us get a statement of work that has detail, okay? And that's going to fix. That's going to mitigate what's happening right now. Okay. We're probably going to have to hit you with some change orders, but at least we're going through it together. Okay? And then the next time we do this, we will start this process from the beginning. Puts out the fire now, the whole company, right? They came up, I knew what it was, and I just said, boy, it seems to me that if you guys spent a little more time on the front end, you wouldn't have these problems. They have revamped everything and they're now crushing it. Projects, right? Going through faster relationships with clients. The front end, the clients are like, you guys are the best. So it's an example where the project managers were stuck because all they were doing was putting out fires. And they just said, you got to go figure out why the fires are happening. Let's do that together. And then it wasn't their issue, it wasn't their fault. That allows them to be unstuck, like, oh, it's not my fault, but I could fix it. So I think that helps to answer the question. But you got. There's something sticking you. What is it? And why you got to go back to the beginning.

Scott Joseph (67:02)

I love what you just said because earlier you were talking when you were kind of going through the SM A CCC with smac, you were going up with, how do you prioritize and come up with your mission and why? And one of the things you said was, well, if we solve this, will it solve a lot of other issues? And the scenario you just said, it hit home for me. Think of all the potential situations or potential missions that you think are missions, but they're really situations that you. That just from that scenario you just gave us. All right, Our problem is we got. Our mission is we gotta go quit reacting to all these fires or we've got to create a better client experience or we got to make more money, right? All these things that you're thinking of, all this thing. And the reality is you have one mission here and the one you just said, let's clean up it up front and do this. But look at all the things it solved. To your point, if we do this one thing, will it solve other situations and. Or Accomplish other missions too. It's a perfect example of that.

Errol Dobler (68:14)

That's, that's the priority is, you know, some of the examples I give when I say combat example for all this. Right. I thankfully I've never been involved in this, but we know it happens all the time on the battlefield. Somebody jumps on a grenade, literally gives their life for everybody else. Now when that happens, we applaud, we honor that person, right? We do all the things. But if I'm the leader, my next question after we have show the proper respect to that person is why the did he have to jump on the grenade to begin with? Why? Because now we got to go back to the beginning. What did we do that created that situation? Now, the answer may have been nothing. It's just war. But we better talk about it. Okay, same thing. Why are we putting out all these fires? I can help anybody put out a fire. That's not solving the bigger problem, right?

Scott Joseph (69:05)

Great.

Errol Dobler (69:05)

That's the process, man.

Scott Joseph (69:07)

I gotta tell you, as usual, I could spend hours just sitting here talking business with you. And of course the stories for the sealed eggs are always great when we're at the events. Everybody he just the different trade stories.

Errol Dobler (69:24)

Yeah, it's. Look, and this is the other thing that I try to help people with. When are you having your leadership discussions? Right? Because when people go through my course and they say, okay, what else are I go, let's do, let's do follow ons. Let's do once every two weeks. Well, what are we going to work on? We're going to work on leadership issues. We're going to talk about how are we leading, right? Not what the widget is. Did we hit the. Okay, you know, where is our culture? Are we doing it? Are we representing it? It's. I could do like you, I could talk about this shit all day, man.

Scott Joseph (69:56)

I loved it. You talked about a lot today. The audience is. If it's. You talked about a lot of stuff, but you gave very specific examples and steps that need to happen. So if that isn't all right there on your, your head, in your head to where you're like, yeah, I can go back and do this. You need to re watch this. And of course, you know, we have a time stamped in our show notes and stuff like that. So they're going, all right, here's where they start talking about smack and, and different things like that. Because you discuss tactical frameworks, mindset shifts that are critical for leadership under pressure. I just think there's so much that people can apply here. And I've seen it in action. I've seen it work, and I love it. I love what you've done. It's been a big help in. In our business, Bourbon Cigar events as well. So for everyone tuning in, if you've ever. We talked about this too. If you've ever felt paralyzed, you know, by tough decisions or overwhelmed by the weight of solving problems, man, if today's. If today's episode did not give you the tools to help you move forward, might be time to think of another career. The, you know, because I gotta tell you, is it. This is the stuff. So whether it's smack emotional awareness.

Errol Dobler (71:26)

Or.

Scott Joseph (71:26)

The reminder that clarity, you know, comes from action as well. You said get a plan going. Here we go. It's the kind of thinking, I think, that separates average leaders from the exceptional ones. So if you guys out there, that's. So if you want to learn more about how Arrow can help you, your teams, and high performance masters when it comes to learn these techniques from, you know, high performance masters when it comes to decision making and leadership, you can find the. I encourage you to go to ice coldleader.com so ice coldleader.com and of course, he's all over social media as well. You know, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. What else you on?

Errol Dobler (72:14)

Yeah, you know, if I got right, just for a cheap plug, you know, look, we've got a course we put people through, right? Call me, ask about it. But my book, I schooled leader leading from the inside out. It Chronicles. First part is my story, how this happened, right? And then the rest of the book is everything we just talked about, right? The process, the example, so on and so forth. So, you know, it's on audio. It's, you know, obviously the book, you know, Amazon and Barnes and Nobles, all that stuff. But it's a good place to start, right? Especially the audiobook. Throw it in and you'll be like, I just. I promise you it'll get you thinking differently. And that's all we want, people thinking different.

Scott Joseph (72:52)

Well, heck, we can take this as a step further. Arrow will be live and in person. All right. At the next business Bourbon and Cigars leadership retreat this October 14th through the 16th, it's gonna be in Louisville, Kentucky. So if you're serious about scaling your business and really pushing your leadership to the next level, this is not something you want to miss. I mean, I work very hard trying to get people there because I know once they get there and they experience what we do at this event, I mean, you've seen the Real Tom Drexler and you. That's a perfect example of the relationships that form. And they form, they're strong and they happen quick. It's, it's what brings me the most joy in life right now. And, and so if you want to join a select group of entrepreneurs and executives for it's an exclusive experience filled with strategies for innovation, you know, sustainable growth, client centric leadership. I'm going to make, I'm going to make an offer for people today. I want you to visit me+Ultra.com backslash bbc50 and we'll also put the link in the show notes. But the first five people who are watching or listening to this, we're going to give them 50% off full access ticket. So all the masterminds, all the activities, all the excursions, you'll be able to talk one on one with arrows as long as you can keep his attention.

Errol Dobler (74:26)

Yeah, look, let me, look, let me add to that plug because it is I, you know, me and you stumbled on each other. And even since I've been involved, business Bourbon and cigars has changed, evolved, grown. And nobody is pitching anybody. We're just building relationships. We're exchanging ideas. Three of my top clients currently have come from business purpose scars, not me pitching them. Hey, it's just Errol, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing because it makes a little sense. Well, what do you think about this? Just very organic. Everybody just sharing ideas and the in person event. And they're fun too.

Scott Joseph (75:10)

They're fun.

Errol Dobler (75:11)

So I, if you're listening and you're like, well, wait a second, 50%, trust me, that is a deal that you need to check out.

Scott Joseph (75:19)

Yeah. So go to it guys. It's, it's. Listen me+Ultra.com backslash BBC 50. Get on there right away and, and we'll see you in October in Louisville, hopefully. So I want to thank everyone for tuning in. Cheers everyone. Thank you so much for listening to business Business Bourbon and Cigars. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with other business owners and friends. And if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the show on YouTube and your favorite podcast player. My goal is to bring you conversations each week that challenge you and give you a no nonsense approach to growing your business. Make sure to join me next week on Business Bourbon and Cigars. And for more information on our latest episode episodes, masterminds and events, head to business bourbon cigars podcast.com Again, that's business bourbon cigars podcast.com.