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- [00:00]
Ryan
So would you say like, if you had it to do all over it again, maybe a. I don't say a better process, but I can't come up with a better way to say it's a better process would be you go first and you make a referral. And then let's say they don't offer a referral fee. Would it be appropriate then to go to that person, say, hey, so I know I sent you this person. Do you have like a referral type arrangement? I could probably send you more people like that if you do and if they're, if they're like no, then maybe you don't. Obviously you're not going to actively try to send them some, but if they're like, oh yeah, we do.
- [00:44]
Roland Fraser
Hey everybody, we've got a kind of a quick business lunch for you today because we've got some time constraints, so we're going to run down something that is based off of a live event that we did for Black Friday at epic. Our, our kind of buying businesses and consulting for equity and selling businesses company. And, and I wanted to just kind of brainstorm this with you, Ryan, but what, what the concept of the event was was conversations to Cash. And the, the kind of, the thesis of it is that you're out there. I did research and it's, it says that the average person in the United States comes into contact with 213 businesses every year. And that means the people that are shut ins, that are not out there buying anything, you know, all of those people. So I think the average is probably higher for like the, you know, the normal person or the person that's probably listening to this podcast. But you're coming into contact with hundreds of businesses every year and usually it's as a consumer. But if you're curious and you have some idea of, if you have some idea of how you might help the business, if they have needs that they express to you, then you, and you also have a place to connect them to, then there's a lot of money that's just being passed over because you're not thinking about this. And so the idea was, and I'd like to hear your take on it, the idea was that really just out there living your life without actually having to do much of anything that you're not doing now, changing the way that you have conversations with the people who own businesses that you're interacting with or anybody at any business, whether they own it or not, can potentially lead to an opportunity to help them and get paid for making a Connection. Tell me your thoughts and any experiences you have on that.
- [02:53]
Ryan
I don't have a ton of direct experience because normally I'm the, you know, business owner and I'm fortunate that I know you. And so we're doing different kind of deals at a, at a, at a slightly higher level. I like the idea. I know, I know. The single biggest constraint when we're trying to help people who do want to get in the business of acquiring businesses is they get intimidated by the deal side of things, that they're almost. They get excited about the opportunity, but then when they get on the other side of it, they realize that, oh, but if I get, what if I get a deal? Like, what if I actually find a deal I'm not going to know how to close on, I'm not going to know how to do it. It's a bit like, you know, I've done, you know, people who, who taught, you know, dating advice and they've said like, one of the biggest problems that they have is like, if they actually can, can show men how to approach, you know, a female or a possible, you know, partner, the guys get really nervous because they're like, okay, if I, if I manage to, you know, drum up the courage to talk to this person, then what? Then I actually have to continue the conversation that's even more terrifying. Like now how do I have a relationship? Ah, so, so yeah, that, I think it, it removes a lot of that. I guess where that brings me back around to is if I'm incredibly introverted. Just the idea of having that initial conversation, that initial opener, even that seems a little bit scary. So how do you get somebody past, you know, past that? And I guess a follow up to that is how can I add enough value to where I'm, I'm going to generate any revenue whatsoever from this thing? Because I don't, I also don't want to be, and you, and I have known this, you don't want to be that person who's like, you know, oh, I can introduce you to this person. What's it worth to you? You know, that kind of connector type person is just sort of a tool, you know, that nobody really likes. So maybe you could speak to that a little bit.
- [04:52]
Roland Fraser
Yeah. And I think that it's real. I'm really happy you raised that because I think when you are holding opportunity hostage to get paid, you're always going to be unpopular. And I think that that's the case even with real estate brokers. I don't think most people like real Estate brokers, because they're selling their house and it's something they have a big investment in. And now they're going to have to pay a percentage of the gross proceeds, not the equity, but the gross proceeds, to this person who is going to bring a buyer. And that the value proposition there is, I have a buyer, and I won't introduce them to you unless and until you pay me a lot of money. And there's resentment about that. But I think when it's. When it's less like that, when it doesn't feel like you're being held hostage, it's okay. So, for example, if somebody's looking for an executive in their company to fill a position, that's a need that they actually have, and I'm not going to charge them to connect them to someone that can help them, but I am going to. And I kind of stumbled into this. But like, the search firms, recruiters will pay you a fee when somebody engages them to help them find somebody for the business. So there's a firm that if somebody's looking for an executive, like they're looking for a chief marketing officer or something like that, and they say, there's a firm that we've used that I think could be helpful to you if you'd like. I'll make a connection. And they send me five grand. I've got. If they get a contract to search, if you. I was trying to think of some of the others. Marketing consultant for a SaaS company. There's a SaaS company that wanted help. I connected them to the marketing consultant, got paid a $20,000 referral fee multiple times for businesses that are interested in selling. I'll connect them to a broker, and the broker will pay a referral fee. And that can be 20, 30, 50,000 or more. And so did you have these deals.
- [07:02]
Ryan
Worked out ahead of time, though?
- [07:04]
Roland Fraser
Yeah, yeah, I do now. I mean, but I didn't. You know, it's like, what happened? The recruiting company, they just said, hey, we're going to send you five grand for referring. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And they said, yeah, and if you ever want to do it again, we'll continue to send you five grand for everybody that you refer. I was like, wow, I know a lot of people that are looking for help. And I actually used the company first, had a good experience with them, and then referred them, and then they sent me money. And I was like, okay, that's so.
- [07:32]
Ryan
So would you say, like, if you had it to do all over again, Maybe a, I don't say a better process, but I can't come up with better way to say it's a better process would be you go first and you make a referral and then let's say they don't offer a referral fee. Would it be appropriate then to go to that person, say, hey, so I know I sent you this person. Do you have like a referral type arrangement? I could probably send you more people like that if you do. Yeah. And if they're, if they're like, no, then maybe you don't. Obviously you're not going to actively try to send them some, but if they're like, oh yeah, we do, is it appropriate then to be like, well, great, I can keep doing that. Any chance I can get a little love for the person I just sent you? Yeah, I mean, that seems fine, right?
- [08:22]
Roland Fraser
Yeah, and here's absolutely. And yes, it's better because it's not random, which is mine, like.
- [08:28]
Ryan
But yeah, you already delivered.
- [08:30]
Roland Fraser
Right. And what I like about it is that you're not holding hostage the connection. You're not, you're not telling that person, hey, I got somebody. I think this is, this is the wrong approach. So somebody says, hey, I'm looking to hire a marketing officer. And you know, somebody that's really good with that. And, and you go to that person and you say, hey, I've got somebody that I think might want to use your services. If you pay me this, I will connect you. I think that feels bad. Whereas, because there's a, it's the, you're holding the opportunity hostage. I think the, the networking way to do it is either do the first one for free so you have the experience and feedback and you feel good about the people, use them yourself ideally. And, and then you can have the conversation that you said, which is, which is kind of like our, know our pipe wrench offer for, for buying businesses where you say, you know, hey, I know we've sent you a whole lot of business before, would love to continue to do that. And also imagine if I was actively trying to do it because I've just been doing it. I've just been sending you referrals because I think you have a good service, but I'd actually like to do that. And we don't want to build somebody else's brand. So we're thinking about going into that and we're going to buy your company that way. That's, that, that's the pipe wrench offer. But for a referral without even thinking about Acquiring their business. It's just the same thing. It's like, hey, I referred, I referred Ryan to you and I heard you did a good job. You know, I meet a lot of people like Ryan and if that would be interesting to you, I would actually, I could probably put some time and effort into it if it made sense for me to do that and, and send you a lot of Ryan's and you. And I recently had a conversation with a company about that and they were like, actually they, they did what the scouting company did, right? They, they said, they said, well, actually we're gonna pay you. And we're like, yeah, that's nice. You know, and then we're like, oh, well, okay. We can probably think of lots of people like that, right? So I like that. Yeah.
- [10:36]
Ryan
And I do think that's smart because the, the inverse of this is also true. If you have a, if, if you're a business and somebody sends you a referral, you would be wise. And I think this is important to consider. If based on what we're talking about, if you think it's rude to ask or if you think it's weird, you know, for somebody to do this, I'll give the, I'll give the, the same advice to the businesses that are out there. If somebody sends you a referral, you would be wise to pay them a commission. Even if they don't ask.
- [11:05]
Roland Fraser
Yes.
- [11:06]
Ryan
Because that is going to incentivize them to continue doing it. And you want, you should pay them a commission that is approximately what you would pay anyway to acquire that customer. Because they're probably going to convert at a higher rate. They're probably going to be better behaved, you know, and this person. And it's a risk free thing. And so yeah, you're right. This, this other company, we sent them a deal and they're like, hey, move. You know, here's what we're going to pay you on this one and here's what we'll continue to pay for all the other ones. We didn't ask for it. We didn't really even expect it. But you better believe we're going to be busting our butts to send them more people now as a result of them doing that out of the kindness of their heart. Await out of the kindness of their pocketbook.
- [11:47]
Roland Fraser
Yeah. And then, and those are kind of one timey type things. It also applies to joint ventures. One of the first times that, that I again stumbled, it's like, it's like I'm not really as smart as I Feel like I would like to be with these things. It just seems like you kind of stumble into them. But a friend of mine was. Ran a call center and they were looking for new products to sell. And he asked me, he said, you know, hey, do you know anybody that's in this space? He was in the real estate space and that has any kind of product? And I was like, well, what kind of product are you looking for? He's like, I don't know, something that, you know, helps any of our people do things faster, better, stronger, you know, higher volume, whatever. I said, I said, not off the top of my head, but let me think about it. And he said, well, think about this. I'll pay you 50% of anything that we sell of any product that you refer to me that I don't have a cost on because he usually just gets a commission. So he's just basically saying, I'll pay you half of what I get. I was like, wow. And he had a, you know, like a hundred and some people and a big floor of a building and lots of expenses and did speeches every day about, you know, motivation and stuff. I was like, that's a, that's a pretty, that's a pretty generous thing. He said, yeah. He said, we have the margin, it's important to me and it's just an add on to things we're already doing anyway, so. So to me, it's found money. And I was like, okay, that's great. And then maybe two weeks, three weeks later, I was at an event, and at the event I got introduced to somebody that had a real estate automation software. And I started talking to them and they said, yeah, we've got this really cool thing and it does this and this, but we're trying to get it out to the market. Do you know anybody that might want to, to help us sell that and distribute it? I was like, well, I have a couple of ideas. Let me think. And they said, well, if you've got anybody, we'll pay you 50% of anything that we sell our share. And I was like, okay. And so I connected them and the thing that amuses me is, so there's 100% of the sale, 50% on the salesperson side I got 50% of. So I got 25% of the sale. 50% on the software side, I got 50% of the sale. So I got 50% for making the connection. The seller got 25% and the software company and then the sales people got 25%, which worked out pretty great for Me, it was like the very first time that they offered it. The first month I got a check for 90 grand. And then it continued for, I think they kept selling it for about two years. So that was like. And so I was like, without building software and without owning and investing in a sales organization, I can actually get paid more than they get from a deal now. I'm sure they don't. That's not every deal for them. But, you know, and the software company was in the promotional stage and the, you know, sales company was looking for something to add. So, um, but since then I have done a lot of matchmaking and, and it's really cool because you're not. Again, I didn't go to them and say, I can get you somebody to help you sell that. You're gonna have to give me 50%. That's terrible as a connector. Right? But talking to them about their business and then saying, you know, I might be, I, you know, I might be able to help and asking like you said, which is better than my, you know, bumble into it plan. But that to me, that's absolutely solid. It's. The salesperson said to me, I'm looking for a product to sell. Say, let me see, you know, I don't have a whole lot of time to look for that. I can, if you'd like, take some time to do it. Is that something that, you know, that would make sense for you to have some sort of affiliate relationship or something like that. And then they'll be like yes or no. And if they say no, then you might still send them business, but you're not going to actively look for it. Or maybe you decide and we've done this before, you send them 3, 4, 5 referrals and then you say, I can't help but notice that I've sent you three, four, five referrals. And that's got to be helpful to you. If you'd like me to focus on that, I could probably continue doing that. Is there any opportunity to, you know, I think those seem friendly to me and it's what we know you and I know a few people that are like really good connectors, but never have really turned that into significant money. And I think that the start of that is learning to not hold hostage and finding opportunities to create a excellent customer experience for the people you're connecting and then to figure out where's my opportunity to add value. Because if you want to get like a, a long term piece of that and not have people trying to figure out how to cut you out. Number one, you go in friendly, where it's their idea. You know, as you're having that conversation, is there any way that we could do it where it would make sense, oh, I could pay you something. That's different than you saying you need to pay me something. So it's their idea. Even if you plant all the seeds to have them go to that. Even if you ask if there's any way that, you know, you might be able to figure it out. And then where's the value add that you can do to in the middle? Not just be a tollgate, but actually be a value enhancer for them by managing relationships or creating systems or, you know, something like that, where you can now get a piece of ownership in those companies. That's a. Another level beyond what we're talking about here. But that's kind of where to me that leads.
- [17:33]
Ryan
Yeah, there's so much. There is so much money floating around out there in between these different companies. And if you're just willing to have the conversations with people and if you're willing to be thoughtful enough to. When people say what they need, to tuck that away in your brain and to listen to what other people say and just to make those connections, it really does just require a bit of thoughtfulness. You don't even have to be that extroverted. You just have to ask questions, listen and be somewhat thoughtful. And as you're making these connections, not only do you have a chance to generate some extra nice, extra revenue, a whole lot of opportunities, but your network is going to grow massively because of that. Because I know we're like super tight. This is less of a business lunch episode and more of a business snack episode. But I know you did an entire AMA on this. Do we have a link to the recording anywhere or can we like create kind of a. Like throw out a custom link right now that we can redirect it to later if somebody wants to go and watch the recording of that where you went in a lot more depth on this stuff.
- [18:40]
Roland Fraser
That would be really, really smart if we did that. I think. Let me check real quick.
- [18:50]
Ryan
We can just make something up right now and just create it later.
- [18:52]
Roland Fraser
Yeah, it's epicnetwork.com cash flow. So epicnetwork.com cash flow has that live on it so you can watch the video of it. It's like an hour and 15 minutes long.
- [19:08]
Ryan
Nice. Yeah.
- [19:09]
Roland Fraser
Awesome. Well, hopefully, I just think there's just imagine to me, it's. It is for me, significant income every year just Connecting people and without really being what I would consider a good networker. A lot of people think I am a good networker and it's probably just because I'm, I'm curious. I'm always talking to people and asking, you know, hey, so how's it going? If I meet Ryan for the first time, I'm going to be like, how's business? Even if I'm buying a car from him or anything. And then he's going to tell me, and he's probably going to tell me because people tend to focus on the negative, not positive. What's not going right yet. Oh, man, it's, it's good. But, God, lately I've had a really hard time because, you know, interest rates are up, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, you know, oh, well, what's, what do you think is the thing that's, you know, that could possibly fix that for you? Oh, well, if I could get this, this and this. Now he's given me, literally told me exactly what he needs that is valuable to him. And now if my next thing is, you know, I might know somebody that could help with that. Let me see if I can talk to them. And then let's say it's a sales trainer. Then I talk to the sales trainer and say, hey, I got a, I got Ryan at the car place who's having trouble getting leads. I think you could probably help them. Would it be okay if I connected you guys? Hell yeah. You know, and by the way, I pay a commission. You know, that, like, it's just so easy that way. And without like having to build funnels or, you know, run ads or do anything like that. Just in your daily life asking that question, having those conversations can lead to cash flow.
- [20:40]
Ryan
Love it. Don't have to be an extrovert. Just gotta ask that one question. How's business exactly?
- [20:45]
Roland Fraser
Epicnetwork.com cashflow if you guys want to watch the full thing, thank you guys for listening. Give us comments, let us know how you are finding extra cash from the conversations you have and we'll see you next time on Business Lunch.
- [21:12]
Hey, Roland Fraser here.
- [21:13]
If you're looking for a way to.
- [21:14]
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