Podcast Summary: Business Lunch with Roland Frasier

Episode Title: Identity Trust: Why 125 Years of Marketing Just Died
Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss challenge the traditional marketing funnel that's dominated for 125 years (awareness, consideration, purchase, loyalty). They argue that in 2025, the journey is radically compressed—buying decisions happen in a flash, and "trust" is the true shortcut from awareness to transaction. The discussion centers on "identity trust" as the key to collapsing the modern customer journey, illustrates the pitfalls of inauthentic marketing, and provides actionable strategies that any business can use to leverage this shift, from small startups to global brands.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Death of the Traditional Marketing Funnel

• Customers now compress what used to be a step-by-step buying process into a single moment.
• "Brands that are winning right now aren’t the ones with the biggest budgets or flashiest celebs. They know that fame does not equal trust. And without trust, fame doesn't sell." — Roland Frasier [00:42]
• Marketing's new challenge: capturing and converting attention instantly by earning trust upfront.

2. The Power and Risk of Trust Agents: Celebrity vs. Authenticity

• Celebrities still command attention, but the risks are immense if brand alignment or authenticity is off.
  • Example: Sydney Sweeney's controversial but massively successful American Eagle ads (700k new customers, 40B impressions, stock up 30–38%).
    • “They kind of reinvented an ad that was wildly successful before... so it's not like it was a cold, 'let's just throw it out there and hope it works.' It had a little bit of basis as well.” — Roland Frasier [07:56]
  • In contrast, Kendall Jenner’s Pepsi ad failed due to poor alignment, tone-deaf messaging, and timing during the George Floyd protests.
    • “Bad messaging, bad positioning, bad timing. Everything pretty much done, done wrong there.” — Ryan Deiss [05:43]
• The lesson: Authenticity and alignment with brand and audience matter more than star power.

3. Attention Is Still Everything, But It’s Harder to Earn

• “You absolutely cannot... get anything going unless you generate some kind of attention. And it is harder than ever to do that.” — Ryan Deiss [06:07]
• Creating controversy can work if it's authentic and rooted in brand values—not controversy just for the sake.

4. Identity Trust: The Most Powerful Shortcut

• Definition: When customers see themselves in your story or your customers, trust is built instantly.
  • Examples:
    • Depop’s ‘depoppleganger’ and eBay’s Gremlin ads connect customers through shared taste and identity.
    • Viral TikTokers like Hyram (CeraVe skincare), Chef Pii (Pink Sauce), and Poppy (ACV soda), using personal stories and relatability to spike sales.
    • Glossier’s user-generated content: “Ordinary customers’ photos and routines became the marketing and 70% of sales were influenced by peer content.” — Roland Frasier [16:03]
• Authentic individual stories trump celebrity endorsements.
• Customers now binge research and rapidly build trust up to “buying temperature” — compressing the journey.

5. Instant Transaction and Reducing Friction

• Make it easy for customers to buy the moment trust is built—remove barriers like “schedule a demo” (especially for SaaS).
• “All too often businesses basically hide the ability to buy... because we wanted to force people to go through the same old channels. It’s just not how it works anymore.” — Ryan Deiss [17:05]

6. How Trust Can Backfire: Bud Light’s Misstep

• When trust agents don’t align with your core audience, the results can be disastrous.
  • Bud Light's partnership with trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney alienated its traditional audience:
    • “It just doesn’t make sense... I think the people felt betrayed. They felt like either they were being played, or just betrayed.” — Roland Frasier [19:07]
    • Sales down 25–30%, $20 billion in market cap lost. [21:43]
• Prescription: Know your audience, and if you want to change them, be upfront and strategic—not combative.

7. Action Plan: Mirror, Micro, Media Framework

• Mirror: Recruit "mirror customers" that look, feel, and live like your target audience.
• Micro: Use micro-influencers (1,000–50,000 followers) or even ordinary customers for authentic endorsement.
• Media: Don’t just post—boost top-performing stories with paid media for scale.
  • “The celebrity is generally known now to be a shill... but their small audience trusts [micro-creators] way more.” — Roland Frasier [24:44]
• Advanced tip: Feature customers or influencers one step above your ideal—aspirational, but still relatable.
  • “If they can be just one level up... that's what you’re looking for... not 10 levels up.” — Ryan Deiss [25:44]

Hypothetical Example: Boutique Gym Acquisition Plan

• Recruit diverse real members for short testimonial selfie videos.
• Post natively, boost winning clips, and track CAC against brand ads.
• Bonus: For even greater engagement, track deeper ‘journey’ stories and create micro-celebrities in your local space.
• “What happens is... these people become celebritized... They want to join the gym because they want to connect with Sydney.” — Ryan Deiss [29:20]

8. B2C vs. B2B: Is Identity Trust Universal?

• B2B can win BIG because so few use identity trust or personality—there’s “blue ocean” opportunity.
  • “For B2B, this is one of the ways that we've been able to win at B2B is being the only brand doing it.” — Ryan Deiss [32:43]

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Fame does not equal trust. And without trust, fame doesn't sell.” — Roland Frasier [00:47]
• “The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.” — Ryan Deiss [08:18]
• “Businesses are not defined by the products they sell, or the way they sell them—they’re defined by the people they serve.” — Ryan Deiss [12:08, 21:53]
• “The best person to build trust for any brand is the founder of that brand.” — Ryan Deiss [33:22]
• “There is no better person to be this trust agent for your business than you.” — Ryan Deiss [33:58]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:23: Why the classic marketing funnel is obsolete
• 02:23–07:36: Celebrity trust agents—Sydney Sweeney v. Kendall Jenner, controversy as a tool
• 09:05–14:17: The concept of Identity Trust + relatable advertising examples
• 14:17–18:05: Viral micro-influencers and the collapse of the customer journey
• 18:29–22:29: When trust goes wrong: Bud Light case study
• 24:04–26:41: Actionable framework: Mirror, Micro, Media
• 26:41–32:43: Advanced strategy discussion—customer journeys, local micro-celebrities, B2B applicability
• 33:22–end: Founders as trust agents + episode wrap-up

Tone & Takeaways

Lively, conversational, and packed with actionable insights and anecdotes, the episode smashes old marketing dogma and empowers entrepreneurs. The big takeaway: in 2025, trust—especially identity trust—collapses the distance between awareness and purchase. Brands must be authentic, choose trust agents that genuinely reflect and resonate with their actual customers, and ruthlessly reduce buying friction. Both celebrities and regular people can serve as trust agents—but authenticity and alignment with the tribe you serve is everything.

Next Episode Teaser:
Roland and Ryan will discuss the other two kinds of trust (Competence Trust and a surprise final type) and their roles in collapsing the customer journey.

If you haven’t listened yet, this summary captures all the practical wisdom and vivid examples to get you up to speed—and ready to rethink your own trust-to-transaction funnel.