Ryan Dice (2:33)

I had more details and it was.

Roland Frazier (2:33)

Like, no, but the interesting Thing is, is that she's stepping down. And apparently somewhere it said she wanted to get back to her founder roots, which might mean that she's kind of bored with this. She's done her thing as a founder, grown it to an amazing company, built herself a billion dollar net worth, and now she's bored or she's looking for something else, or the company's moved into the administrative stage and she doesn't feel like that's really her role. There are lots of reasons that you as a CEO might decide that, that you don't want to continue to be a CEO. And we were talking about it because in one of our portfolio companies last night, I got a text from one of the CEOs of one of those companies saying, hey, I think I'm ready to step down and bring in a professional CEO. And we've been in the process of professionalizing that business for a little bit right now. And so that's kind of one of the two last positions in the C suite that we might think about professionalizing. And I wanted to talk with you, Ryan, because my advice was, look, you founded this thing, you've been there, you've grown it. I have not experienced in my world yet bringing in a found CEO who cares about the company and understands the company and will be dedicated to the company like the founding CEO. I've seen many CEOs step down, do professional searches, bring in recruited CEOs and failures happen, or mediocrity happens. And so my advice was, why don't we get a COO that is super, super professional and has been there, done that. Because the concerns, when I was talking to this person, I said, you know what, what is it about being a CEO that's, that's a challenge. It's like, well, there's just so many things, people that need to be held accountable, things that are slipping through the cracks. I don't have enough time to do what I'm really good at in terms of creating new business for the company. And all of that stuff was internal. And so I said that, like, all of that stuff is stuff that a CEO would do. And a couple of things. Number one, that's really that job function that you're talking about is CEO, not CEO. Two, I don't think you'll find anybody that cares about the company like you do. This person is amazingly dedicated. And I think that you, as the guiding visionary, light of the company and primary finder of new opportunities, shouldn't really change, especially because you love what you do. And that really, you're just trying to get rid of the things that you don't love, which is all the stuff that a CEO would do. So my thinking is get that person also. They have. You have the benefit of they're going to take less equity and they're going.

Roland Frazier (5:25)

To cost less, and they're probably going.

Roland Frazier (5:27)

To be better at the job that you want than a CEO would, because all the CEO is going to do is come in and go, that's not really what I do. Let me get a good coo. So that's kind of giving you some context and thoughts. I'd love to see what you think, Ryan, and then kind of have the discussion for everybody here that might be thinking, maybe the business would just be better off without me in the. In the, the top seat.

Ryan Dice (5:51)

I think there's this very personal for me. I mean, as you know, I've fired myself as CEO from companies twice. And it was, you know, one. One time in particular was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made in my. In my, you know, entrepreneurial business life. I mean, nearly bankrupted the company and me personally. So this is definitely very, very personal for me. And having worked, you know, as we do with a number of CEOs, this comes up all the time. And I think that there are good reasons for founders to step down as the CEO. A couple. I think there are scores of bad reasons for them to do it. And I think.

Roland Frazier (6:28)

Let's talk about the good.

Ryan Dice (6:30)

So I think a good reason to step down is that your company has reached a level where you and your board all agree that you don't really have the skills to take the company from where it is to the next level. You don't have the skills, and you're unlikely to acquire them fast enough, in part because you just don't want to. Right now, I would argue that's leading on a good day, right? Because what you're basically saying is, we're at a really, really, really good place where we want to go. I don't know how to take us there. And. And I think that that can be a good reason to step down as CEO. Now, I don't think that you have to do that, by the way, but I think that is an okay reason to do it. In other words, leave on a good day. That's one thing. I remember you interviewed Sarah Blakely at one of our events. And, you know, her dad was. That was the advice that her dad gave, gave her was, you can quit. You just can't quit on a Bad day, right? You got to quit on a good day. So when it's a good day, let's have a conversation. If you want to leave, then that's fine. I think far too many entrepreneurs, they will, they will quit on a bad day. So I think if it's truly a good day, like let's say your company goes public and you've taken it public and you've hung around for, you know, a year or two and you just are not enjoying running a public company, but things are going fine, you want to leave. I think that's fine because there's no doubt that running a public company is fundamentally different than running an entrepreneurial, private, private venture. I think another good reason to leave is let's say the company makes a strategic pivot and it works. But now you realize that, whoa, I'm no longer the best person to lead this. Like the direction the company is going, I really can't follow. I have a friend of mine who, they started a business in the marketing SaaS space that was very big in small business, small and medium sized business, and it did really well and they were able to raise about half a million dollars. And this particular company, just in the last, you know, in the last couple of weeks, he stepped down as CEO because it is now moving, well, upmarket. And he's, he's saying like, I don't know how to run an upmarket company. I don't really want to run it. And what they had, and I think this is really important, they had a COO who had done that exact thing, right? And so again, leaving on a good day. So I think that's the first question to ask is, am I leaving on a good day or am I leaving on a bad day? Another way to look at this is am I running to something or am I running away from something? Right. Am I running away from this thing that I don't want, or is it, this is good, but there's something over here that, but I want even more. So when Whitney Wolf Hurd talks about how I want to be able to kind of flex my founder muscles again, it's, yeah, running Bumble's been great. It's been really successful. I miss running a small business. I want to do another startup. I think those are good reasons for founders to leave, at least for themselves, whether it's the best thing for the company. Time will tell, but I think those are acceptable reasons to consider it. What's not is, yeah, I'm just burned out and tired, you know, because to your Point the mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs make. And, dude, I don't like to point fingers, but I'm literally pointing a finger right now. I think one of the worst things to happen to the entrepreneurial world was what I believe is the misunderstanding of the visionary integrator concept. Right. And I'll say it like, I get it like, Gino Wickman's a friend. I think Traction is a great book. But the core concept from that book, which was telling entrepreneurs, look, you're the visionary, and what you need to do is you need to bring in an integrator who's going to do all the dirty work. So you just get to Vision 8 all over the place, and then other people will do the actual work and clean up your mess. But that's not what the book actually says.

Roland Frazier (10:22)

No.

Ryan Dice (10:22)

Right. But that's what a lot of entrepreneurs take from that. They take from that. That, oh, I just need to bring in somebody to do all the stuff that I don't want to do or that I'm not very good at. And I just don't think you really get to do that as a founder, CEO. I mean, that's like a parent saying, I want to play with the kids, but I don't really want to, like, do any. Clean up any dirty diapers or feed them or, you know, deal with any of that stuff. Like, no, that's. That's not the job. That's not what you signed up for. So. And I know when we're working with CEOs and you do the same thing when they're burned out, it's. The first question is the exact one, what are you doing right now that you don't want to do? And almost always there's some functional business role. There's somebody at the company who should be doing a critical role, and they're already in the job and they just aren't doing anymore, and you're picking up their slack and you're burned out because you're doing your job and theirs. And that could be in marketing, it could be in sales, it could be an ops, it could be anywhere. But usually the solution and what I would always try first is do we need to make a functional executive, Functional business hire at an executive level? I don't know. What do you think? Any of that. Any of that resonate?

Roland Frazier (11:31)

Yeah, I think it all does. I think you and I are pretty aligned on that. The biggest thing for me is just I haven't found. Nobody cares about them. Like, nobody cares about the company. Like, you do you know, a professional, a professional CEO is a bit of a mercenary. And they're coming in, and I don't mean that in the negative connotation that it might sound, and I don't definitely don't mean it derogatorily to people who do that. It's just that they're coming in for the money or the opportunity. They're not coming in for the passion almost never. And so the person that has the passion, I think is going to be the most aligned with where the company wants to go and taking care of the company and doing the thing that maybe isn't the most profitable thing, but is probably the best thing in terms of an investment in the company, investment in the people, et cetera. And so I've seen that again and again. So my experience has generally been that you bring somebody in who's a mercenary and they, they run their bag of tricks, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but very often it disconnects with the overall culture and mission of the company and, and things don't go as well as they could have and they, or they certainly slow down and take a different, you know, a different tact. And, and very often it just becomes an extremely costly thing for the founder CEO and the stay come back to a less strong company. And, and that's hard. And I think that in terms of talking about Gino's book, that I don't know, because I don't remember, it's been a while since I read it. Excuse me, but the idea makes a lot of sense that you are the visionary and the birther of the company. And so it is your baby, you're going to take good care of it, and you have an idea of where you want it to go. You just don't really know how to get there. So you hire this expert we call an integrator to come in and listen to what you have to say and translate that into that means we need this many people, they need to do this, here's the systems we need, here's the software, etc. Not necessarily a CEO, not necessarily a CEO. So like, my advice continues to be, look, as long as you want to be CEO, stay CEO. If there's a bunch of administrative stuff or operational stuff that is stopping you from doing what you feel is your full capacity and also not making you happy, then get somebody that's good at that, because there's a whole bunch of those people and they're very good at it. And it's a different skill set and so I like the concept of the visionary integrator. I definitely think though that I think of that. It's funny, I haven't really asked anybody, but I think of that when I hear that as, oh, visionary CEO, integrator, CEO. But I guess a lot of people don't.

Ryan Dice (14:29)

Well, I think what they see is. So I just get, I don't know they necessarily equate CEO with pure, with a purely visionary type role. Because again, the CEO role is grossly misunderstood. We've talked about that a lot. But I still think that hiring, firing yourself and replacing yourself is probably the last hire. Like that should probably be the last thing that you do. Yeah, I think second to last, right before that is hiring a COO or a president or a gm. Start with the functional roles. I mean, if you're burned out right now as a CEO, do yourself a favor. And this doesn't have to take very long, but just get some post it notes in a whiteboard and just map out with your team. Or you can do it by yourself. Map out, just ask the question, how do customers happen? Or how do clients happen? Or how do patients happen at this business? And start from the initial point of awareness and go all the way through until the sale is closed. And what are all the steps and stages? If you will take the time to visualize that in a very simple flowchart, you'll be able to look at it and go, okay, who should be doing these things? And there's a really good chance that right now you look at it and you go, well, I'm doing that and I'm doing that, but we have somebody who does that now do the same thing for the fulfillment side. Map out, okay, the sale is made. Now what happens? These are the core value chains of a business. Right. All business is gonna have at least those two value chains. It's gonna have a growth engine that dictates how customers and clients happen. It's gonna have a fulfillment engine that dictates how they're served after the sale is made. Yep. If you will visually map that and then you will say, okay, who does this one? Who does this one? Who does this one? You can now begin to create a hiring plan. And there's a really good chance that you're a hire or two away from burnout. And, and there's a really, really good chance that the hire you need isn't even an executive level person and definitely not a COO or a CEO. So I would encourage until you have visualized how your company captures and creates, creates and captures marketplace value. I don't think you're in a place yet to hire much of anybody. You probably shouldn't even hire an executive assistant yet. You don't know that that's what you need. So get really clear on the role based on where are you overburdened in the value creation process? Yeah, once you have that, then I, I'd look at making higher, making those functional hires. Get those functional hires in place, see if that doesn't solve the problem, and then go away for a couple of weeks. Sometimes all we really need is a vacation. Yeah, I mean, the number of CEOs I know who are ready to quit super burned out, and they just took a vacation and they came back just renewed and energized. I see that happen all the time. The other thing that I see happen all the time is CEOs being super burned out. So they quit, they fire themselves, they hire somebody else. Now they're out of the game and now they're bored out of their mind and all they want to do is get back in. But when you bring somebody in like that, you just bought yourself probably a three minimum quarter test. Yeah, right. You're going to hire in a CEO or a COO and not give them, you know, a couple of quarters, a few quarters to see if they can be. I mean, you're, you're in that sucker for a year. Like you said, it's expensive. So I don't know. Don't do it. Don't do it.

Roland Frazier (17:45)

Okay, so, so, so we're obviously biased. Neither of us. It would be better for you guys to have us having a discussion where we both disagreed. If we play devil's advocate with ourselves for a minute. I think, I think at the beginning is like, like really, if you don't have the skills to take it to the next step and you can't get the skills underneath you, then I guess that would be a good time. But particularly if you're just done. If you're like, if.

Ryan Dice (18:13)

But wouldn't you say at that point just sell the business? No.

Roland Frazier (18:17)

Well, I mean, what if it was still very nascent in its growth? I mean, let's say it's doing 100 million and you think it can go to 500 or a billion. You just haven't ever seen that and you're not interested in it and it's not fun for you anymore. I wouldn't sell it, I mean, because what am I going to do with the money that's going to make me as Much as the growth from 100 to 500. Right.

Ryan Dice (18:36)

I don't know, man. I'd kind of call BS on any entrepreneur who's like, I know this thing can go to $500 million. I don't really know how to do it. I'm just not that interested in it. It's like, really, you're an entrepreneur and this thing can go that much and you're just not that interested in developing?

Roland Frazier (18:50)

Yeah, absolutely. So I would disagree with you on that. There we go. We got something we can talk about, right? To me, Absolutely. That happens all the time. I'm out of my depth and I don't like this. I've become an administrator. Look at our buddy John, right? John was the CEO of a company. Co CEO of a company, $2 billion valuation. And when he got like all of the corporateness in, when they got their big half a billion dollar cash influx in the company, he's like, man, I hate this job. I have no power. I'm all political correctness all the time. And I don't like it anymore. I don't want to be there, right? It's gone. I don't want to leave. I don't want to sell leave. Because I still see, as does the company that came and put all that money in giant growth and probably an ipo, But I just don't really like it anymore. It's changed the nature of the job. So I do think that happens. And I, and I just.

Ryan Dice (19:53)

To me, that falls into the first category of leaving on a good day, right? He's leaving after the company has already achieved a level of scale that a lot of the entrepreneurs that we're, we're talking sometimes, man, to entrepreneurs who are doing like two, three, four million dollars a year. And they're like, you know, I just, you know, I don't know if I can take it to the next level. I don't know. It's like, what are you talking about? Yeah, you can, like, you can do this. You might need some help. You might need some support around you. But this idea of like, I'm totally out of my depth, like, come on. No, you're not. Oftentimes they just need a little bit of help. They need to make a deal. If he hires. They need to sometimes fire some people that are occupying the org chart. Get in some people who actually know what the heck they're doing. That's not like their cousin. That's more what I'm referring to. You're right, John. I mean, by all means. They had Done a, you know, multi, multi, like half a billion dollar transaction. Sure. Like you decide that at that point it's gotten too corporate. You can.

Roland Frazier (20:52)

But I think that could happen way earlier. I think like it's a lot different, you know, in a million to 10 million than it is when you get into 30 to 50. It really does become much more bureaucratic and, you know, red tapey and that kind of stuff. And it goes from I want to know all the people I'm working with by name and you know, see how they're doing and know about their families and do barbecue. That's a different business than the other ones. And so I can see it. I think I can see it. I mean, you should never stay in something that you're not happy with, no matter what. And there's always somebody that can run it, but, but ultimately no one will run it. Like you care about it. That's, that's, I think the bottom line, you and I both agree on 100% and we do.

Ryan Dice (21:32)

I mean with the five exits framework that you came up with, right. Exit number one is you're exiting the line, you're, you're hiring some folks. Exit number two is you're exiting the staff. So, so you actually have an operating system in place and you can ascend to a true CEO role, not just a manager with a CEO title. But exit number three is exiting the org chart. Right. Where you're bringing in a full time operator and you're not on the org chart anymore. It is what you and I both want. So I'm not knocking it or saying that somebody shouldn't want it. I'm just suggesting do it intentionally. Leave on a good day. Don't do it just because you're burned out.

Roland Frazier (22:07)

Okay, so let's, let's talk personal for a minute because you are the CEO, I believe, still. Right. Of Digital Marketer.

Ryan Dice (22:17)

Yes.

Roland Frazier (22:18)

You are not particularly excited or focused on digital marketing anymore in terms of the button pushing details, that kind of stuff. Your interest has moved more over to scalable. How do I help companies have operating systems and grow? Do you think it makes sense, given your lack of interest and lack of time to continue to be the CEO of Digital Marketer? And I'm not saying that everybody, because we talk about this all the time. I want you guys to hear the discussion because I think it, and I don't know what Ryan's going to say, but I think it's, I think this is the kind of discussion you want to have and because this is a very Real situation. I think it's a great one for you to hear.

Ryan Dice (23:06)

Yeah. And the answer is no. I mean, I don't think that I'm the ideal person to be the CEO today and haven't for a while. But with all the transitions and stuff that were taking place, I'm the one who still cares more than anybody else to be there to see it through that transition. I think to leave now would be to leave on a bad day. Yeah.

Roland Frazier (23:24)

Does it. But does it need a CEO or does it need a COO.

Ryan Dice (23:31)

In the interim? Yeah. I mean, what it. I mean, and we had a general manager that, that is, you know, that is leaving us. And so, no, I mean, pretty, pretty quickly we would look to bring on a. Bring on a general manager. But I want that person first and foremost to be able to occupy a functional role that's on the product side. Because where we need the most help right now is on the product side.

Roland Frazier (23:52)

Right.

Ryan Dice (23:53)

And that when I look at what do I, I have to spend way too much time doing. So I could, I could go out there and I could hire a GM or a CEO. Or a CEO, or I could hire a head of product.

Roland Frazier (24:02)

Yeah.

Ryan Dice (24:02)

Which is less expensive than all of those things. More focused on what they would do. Then we can say, okay, great, we've got this in place. Now let's look at building up the marketing team a bit more. Okay, now we've got a solid enough executive team. One question now. Is it fun to run again? You know, maybe it is. Maybe now it got fun again, now that it got easy. Probably not. It's probably time for somebody else I don't like. You know, I still always would rather be work above the business and be off the org chart. That's always the goal. But maybe it gets fun again. Maybe one of those functional leaders can ascend into the CEO role. Right. I mean, I would love to see one of these functional leaders.

Roland Frazier (24:43)

It's the same thing that happens all the time there though. I think you're promoting incompetence. Not that the people are bad or generally incompetent people, but you're taking from a job that is not the same job description as the operating officer. And I'm going to argue the opposite because you to me don't have the time or we would have already done it to find those people. If we hired the COO now, like a real COO now, they will go find those people. Somebody that's already been the operator of a company that, that is an educational products business to Business company, there's a ton of those around there. Lots and lots of experience. You stay as the CEO, fine. Cause you care and you have great cultural acuity, but you don't have the time or the passion for the guts of that business. I think you bring in the COO first, Let them find the product person, let them find the marketing people, let them that have already done this, you know, take that company to the next level, and then you're freer to do more of what you want. And you actually maybe enjoy becoming the CEO. Because again, I, I'm not super big on letting go of the CEO, although I do think it's difficult to be CEO of two companies, which is kind of where you find yourself right now.

Ryan Dice (26:01)

Yeah, yeah, that. That's not good. And, and I mean, obviously that can work. I mean, I think both of those playbooks can work. And, and in terms of when, when I was like, maybe that person descends, I meant that to be a comma, not a statement, because it was like, man, usually it doesn't work out that way.

Roland Frazier (26:15)

Okay, okay.

Ryan Dice (26:16)

So it almost never. It almost. But, you know, most people who are COOs started out in some functional role at some point, so it's not like it's all that crazy. I get nervous, and I wouldn't be opposed to the idea. But hiring a COO who could then hire the functional roles, now you gotta get, you gotta get a bunch of those right? And if one of them is wrong, then the whole thing goes. I don't know. I'm more of a. I know the functional roles that need to get done. I'd rather hire a recruiter to help with the process, which is something that we haven't done as often as we should, to run the process of getting the people, get the functional roles in place, then let's see about getting somebody, you know, over the top who can be the, you know, the GM COO type person to, to run it. I think it can both work. It's not like, you know, top down, bottom, it can both work. But hiring the generalist to then hire the specialists.

Roland Frazier (27:21)

The problem generalist has a specialty in hiring the specialists, which an operator would.

Ryan Dice (27:27)

So would a recruiter, though. I mean, so I guess my thing is if the pain today, if the need today is at a functional specialist role, let's get the functional specialist role in there and see what type of relief that doesn't create for the CEO. And I'm thinking less about me, although that would be a factor for me as well, but more also about The CEO who's burned out because going and running a recruiting process to hire a COO role. So now you're running that entire COO recruiting process to hire a generalist so that you can bring them in and train them up so that they can then run a recruiting process to fix the thing that you most need. Today you're six, nine months out before you.

Roland Frazier (28:05)

Actually, I like that you define it with the generalist. I like that pejorative definition that you've got in there. I like it.

Ryan Dice (28:11)

I actually don't mean it to be pejorative at all.

Roland Frazier (28:14)

I respect it because I think, just.

Ryan Dice (28:16)

So we're clear, I don't mean generalist in a pejorative sense at all.

Roland Frazier (28:20)

You do in terms of this role. Right. You're saying to hire a generalist because it's not, it's a specialist of running and staffing companies like this. So how, how long does it take to find that product person? If you just found the right person, you would fix it forever. If you find the product person, then you move to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And three years later, which is kind of what's happened to us, you're still trying to find the right people. Right. Whereas if you got the operator who's by the way, going to be significantly different than a recruiter because the operator is going to have to work with those people, the recruiter is kind of in it to find you the best person they can as fast as they can. They can't think about a lot of the things they're not gonna. Most of em think about a lot of the things that the person who's going to be working with those people on a regular basis is going to want because they're gonna have a playbook. They're gonna come in with a playbook for taking a company exactly like this, that they have done before, maybe two times, three times from where it is to where we wanna go. And they know the people they need. We're kind of like, you know, well, we need a product person and hopefully it'll be the right one this time. Right. I, I think that, that they are a specialist. That's. To me, that's a kind of a, a big point that you and I think differently about.

Ryan Dice (29:32)

Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't know, I think I agree with. There's nothing you said that I disagree with, but I wouldn't necessarily. To me it's a, it's a difference in terms, you know, so a specializing generalist I don't know. The. The. More saying that they're not occupying a functional business role was kind of what. What I was saying. The.

Roland Frazier (29:51)

The.

Ryan Dice (29:53)

The only pushback that I would have specific to this company that we're talking about here is we have sought to go out there and find and hire the COO person to build.

Roland Frazier (30:04)

We went through that whole recruiter process with a good company that's done that for lots of people.

Ryan Dice (30:08)

So we haven't gone through the right process, but maybe that perhaps what I am responding to right now is an overreaction to trying what you're suggesting.

Roland Frazier (30:21)

Right.

Ryan Dice (30:21)

Albeit poorly, and it not working out. Okay.

Roland Frazier (30:25)

I mean, we did.

Ryan Dice (30:26)

This is an admission.

Roland Frazier (30:28)

We did get the divining rod and walk around and pointed at this person down on the street and we were like, you, sir, you will be the fine COO for this guy. I'm just kidding, but that's a fun topic. Well, hopefully this has been helpful for you guys. This is the Ryan is Wrong podcast. And no, I'm just kidding, but it's really fun because we get. It's so much more fun. It's fun because we agree a lot of the times, but it's also exciting and mind expanding to have conversations when you disagree. So I think it's. I think that's kind of fun because ultimately we. We disagree on how to get to the same place, which is good. We're always aligned on that. If you found this helpful, then please share it with a friend and anything else you want to say before we sign off.

Ryan Dice (31:13)

If you didn't find it helpful, then keep your opinions to your dang self, to yourself.

Roland Frazier (31:18)

Yes. Thanks, guys.

Ryan Dice (31:20)

No, I'm just kidding. If you didn't find it helpful, that feedback is helpful too. No, I got nothing else. I think it was great. And yeah, I think. What if nothing else. What. I will tell you this, because if you are in a business partnership, if you find that you are always agreeing 100% on everything, then one of you is utterly unnecessary. So this would be fun to look back on and say that I agree with that 100%.

Roland Frazier (31:43)

I don't know why.

Ryan Dice (31:45)

With that said, I think you're probably right. I think I'm overreacting to trying the right thing the wrong way. So I just want to be on the record. And we did.

Roland Frazier (31:55)

We tried it the wrong way a few times. Right.

Ryan Dice (31:57)

So I think it's.

Roland Frazier (31:58)

I think we have to go through the process that we're taking the portfolio companies through for that company, because truly, and that's the other thing that, that maybe people could take away is that you really gotta. You gotta treat them all. Even if it's your baby baby that you know that you started from your. Basically from your dorm room. Right. You know, you. You still have to go through the process.

Ryan Dice (32:16)

Why would I follow my own advice? That's stupid.

Roland Frazier (32:18)

Which is why we hold a system called the Scalable Operating System. Exactly. And with that, we'll see you guys next.

Roland Frazier (32:32)

Hey, Roland Frazier here. If you're looking for a way to grow your business exponentially to get more customers and ultimately increase your wealth, there's no faster way to do it than to acquire other businesses that already have the customers, products, services, teams and media that you want. If you want to double your sales, just acquire a company that has the same sales as yours. It sounds simple, but far too many people end up starting new businesses that fail and forget that they could skip all the hard stuff and just acquire one that already exists. There's a reason why private equity firms, family offices, big companies like Apple, Google, and some of the smartest entrepreneurs on the planet do not start new businesses from scratch. They acquire already successful businesses, and when they do it, they instantly increase their sales, their profits. If they want market share, they increase that they can get new products and services to offer, all instantly. Hey, look, 90% of new businesses fail. 90%. Why not acquire an already successful business and increase your chances of success by 900%? What most people don't realize is you can acquire highly profitable businesses with no money out of your own pocket in pretty much any country in the world, regardless of your credit, and without having to go find a bunch of investors or needing any experience. Look, I've been acquiring businesses for over 30 years now, and I cover the whole process in my EPIC Investing strategy training, and I want to give it to you 100% free. Just visit businesslaunchpodcast.com EPIC to get your free access to my EPIC investing training right now, while it's available. Hey, Roland Frazier here. If you're looking for a way to grow your business exponentially to get more customers and ultimately increase your wealth, there's no faster way to do it than to acquire other businesses that already have the customers, products, services, teams and media that you want. If you want to double your sales, just acquire a company that has the same sales as yours. It sounds simple, but far too many people end up starting new businesses that fail and forget that they could skip all the hard stuff and just acquire one that already exists. There's a reason why private Equity firms, family offices, big companies like Apple, Google, and some of the smartest entrepreneurs on the planet do not start new businesses from scratch. They acquire already successful businesses and when they do it, they instantly increase their sales, their profits. If they want market share, they increase that. They can get new products and services to offer, all instantly. Hey look, 90% of new businesses fail. 90%. Why not acquire an already successful business and increase your chances of success by 900%? What most people don't realize is you can acquire highly profitable businesses with no money out of your own pocket in pretty much any country in the world, regardless of your credit and without having to go find a bunch of investors or needing any experience. Look, I've been acquiring businesses for over 30 years now and I cover the whole process in my EPIC Investing Strategy training and I want to give it to you 100% free. Just visit businesslunchpodcast.com epic to get your free access to my EPIC Investing training right now, while it's available. Hey, Roland Frazier here. If you're looking for a way to grow your business exponentially to get more customers and ultimately increase your wealth, there's no faster way to do it than to acquire other businesses that already have the customers, products, services, teams and media that you want. If you want to double your sales, just acquire a company that has the same sales as yours. It sounds simple, but far too many people end up starting new businesses that fail and forget that they could skip all the hard stuff and and just acquire one that already exists. There's a reason why private equity firms, family offices, big companies like Apple, Google, and some of the smartest entrepreneurs on the planet do not start new businesses from scratch. They acquire already successful businesses and when they do it, they instantly increase their sales, their profits. If they want market share, they increase that. They can get new products and services to offer all instantly. Hey look, 90% of new businesses fail. 90%. Why not acquire an already successful business and increase your chances of success by 900%?

Roland Frazier (37:10)

What most people don't realize is you.

Roland Frazier (37:12)

Can acquire highly profitable businesses with no money out of your own pocket in pretty much any country in the world, regardless of your credit and without having to go find a bunch of investors or needing any experience. Look, I've been acquiring businesses for over 30 years now and I cover the whole process in my EPIC Investing Strategy training and I want to give it to you 100% free. Just visit businesslunchpodcast.com epic to get your free access to my EPIC investing training right now, while it's available.