Business Lunch Podcast: "The Hidden Cost Of Dead Brands"

Host: Roland Frasier, with Ryan Deiss
Date: November 13, 2025

Episode Overview

Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss dive deep into the cautionary tale of recent legal troubles faced by Tai Lopez and Alex Mehr in their failed venture to revive "dead" legacy retail brands like RadioShack, Pier 1, and Dressbarn. The duo unpacks the allure, risks, and technical mistakes of acquiring defunct but familiar brands, analyzing the underlying business model, operational failures, and the broader takeaways for entrepreneurs looking at similar opportunities or raising capital.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Failed Experiment: Acquiring Defunct Retail Brands

• Tai Lopez & Alex Mehr Case
  • In 2021, Lopez and Mehr aimed to revive big-name but bankrupt retail brands via online models.
  • They raised funds, acquired brands like RadioShack, Pier 1, and Dressbarn, but failed to realize their e-commerce vision.
• SEC Lawsuit
  • They allegedly paid original investors with funds from new investors, a classic Ponzi scheme charge (presumed innocent until proven guilty).
  • At issue: investor money was spent to buy brands at the expense of building required infrastructure and operations.

Notable Quote:
"It's big news in business land...let's go and acquire these brands that were traditional offline brands that went out of business and let's bring them online. And unfortunately this business idea did not work out."
— Ryan Deiss (04:12)

2. Business Model Viability: Brand Equity vs. Brand Awareness

• Rolland’s Defense:
  • The fundamental idea has merit: leverage well-known brands with latent consumer trust for e-commerce.
  • Brand reputation could command premium or preference online for generic products.
• Ryan’s Counterpoint:
  • Brand awareness ≠ brand equity.
  • Consumers had moved on; recognition doesn't revive declining category appeal.
  • Cites Amazon, Target, and Wayfair as reasons legacy brands failed—consumer preference had shifted.

Memorable Exchange:

"Brand awareness does not equal brand equity. Unfortunately, for most of these brands, consumers had already voted with their wallets."
— Ryan Deiss (06:55)

"I think that they, those brands killed themselves by having outdated expansion and modernization strategies...but from a brand recognition standpoint...I'm probably going to buy it from Radio Shack."
— Roland Frasier (07:31)

3. Core Reasons for Failure

Ryan outlines three fatal missteps:

• Flawed Business Model
  • Old brands hold less sway today; influencer-driven brands have more leverage.
• Underestimated Capital Needs
  • Money raised was enough to buy brands, not enough to build scalable operations or robust e-commerce infrastructure.
• High Operational Complexity With No Operators
  • Multiple brands = massively different customer bases; lacked team with operational expertise ("marketers, not operators").
  • Running several niche stores demands separate brand management, expertise, and substantial resources.

Quote:
"Good marketing is not enough. You cannot market your way out of any problem. And this is evident."
— Ryan Deiss (13:02)

4. How Roland Would Approach Dead Brand Acquisitions

• Structured Testing Before Commitment
  • Secure online distribution rights, option deals, run lean test campaigns before full-scale acquisition or rollout.
• Avoid Spreading Thin
  • Don't launch all brands simultaneously; focus resources for proof of concept (e.g., start with Pier 1's higher-margin home goods).
• Leverage Existing Channels
  • Use platforms like Amazon/eBay, avoid risking capital on infrastructure.
• Limit Exposure
  • Only commit capital within capped, pre-defined limits. Learn from others' mistakes or failed experiments before making big moves.

Memorable Lesson:
"Have that budget of what is my stake that I'm willing to invest to have the opportunity to do this. Then I would probably restrict my commitment to the minimum necessary to test..."
— Roland Frasier (16:43)

5. The News vs. Real Success Trap

• Narrative for Investors, Not Customers
  • The Lopez/Mehr group aimed for showy progress (multiple simultaneous launches) to attract more investment—wrong focus.
• Investor as Primary Customer
  • Raising capital often shifts business owner attention away from the end user to satisfying investors—a dangerous pivot.

Quote:
"When you decide that you're going to raise money, your customer changes from the end consumer who's buying your product to the investor who's giving you money."
— Ryan Deiss (22:36)

6. Capital Raising Red Flags and Aftermath

• Lack of Institutional Investors
  • Only unsophisticated investors participated—no big banks or experienced funds, which should be a warning to anyone considering investing.
• Misuse of Funds and Personal Payouts
  • $5.9 million paid out to old investors from new funds, $16.1 million (per the SEC) for personal use—calls into question founder integrity and intentions.

Quote:
"That should be a big giant red flag. And there was not a single major bank or other big investor coming riding along on this deal. And that, that's a sign, folks."
— Ryan Deiss (29:59)

7. Practical Takeaways for Entrepreneurs and Investors

• Test before you buy: Negotiate options or limited rights instead of outright full acquisitions.
• Raise sufficient capital: Not just for acquisition, but to operate and scale the business.
• Prioritize operators: You need seasoned operators, not just marketers or visionary founders.
• Watch for sophisticated co-investors: Their presence or absence is telling.
• Invest in what you understand: Stick to your expertise or thoroughly vet the operational team of any opportunity.
• Avoid "too good to be true" deals: Past performance isn't a guarantee, but lack of it—especially in similar ventures—is a risk.
• Be wary of hype and news-based progress: Focus on genuine operational milestones, not just appearances or acquisition headlines.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the pitfalls of undercapitalization & hype returns:
  “Your progress is news of more acquisitions, not news of actual performance and proof of the model.”
  — Roland Frasier (22:18)

• On differentiating business vs. investor focus:
  "When you decide that you're going to raise money, your customer changes...to the investor who's giving you money."
  — Ryan Deiss (22:36)

• On the vital role of operators:
  “Good marketing is not enough. You cannot market your way out of any problem.”
  — Ryan Deiss (13:02)

• On risk mitigation and discipline:
  “Have that budget...of what is my stake that I'm willing to invest to have the opportunity to do this.”
  — Roland Frasier (16:43)

• On learning from failed deals:
  “It’s a tough situation. Good business lessons to be learned...make sure you’ve got solid operators on that team. Sales and marketing...is not everything.”
  — Roland Frasier & Ryan Deiss (32:47–33:20)

Takeaways & Lessons (33:22–36:46)

• Don’t get swept up in brand nostalgia, hype, or news without operational evidence.
• Vet the management team—the absence of real operators is a huge warning sign.
• Make certain your capital is sufficient for both acquisition and robust post-deal growth.
• Prioritize clear use-of-proceeds and transparency in investment opportunities.
• Invest only in businesses and people you understand; watch who else is investing.
• Be extra cautious when raising outside capital—stakes and risks elevate dramatically.
• Validate business models with lean testing before scaling up.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a dense, insightful discussion and a must-listen for entrepreneurs contemplating acquisitions, capital raises, or legacy brand reboots. It serves as both a reality check on "dead brand" deals and a primer in operational discipline, team selection, investing prudence, and the dark side of prioritizing investor optics over customer value.

If you have comments or want to share your own stories, connect with the hosts on social media and join the conversation.