Ryan Deiss (3:42)

Yeah. The simplest way to describe it is really budgeting. So if you think about you, but the way that you would budget your money. I love what John Maxwell said about budgeting. He said budgeting is telling your money where to go. Time blocking is telling your time where to go. He said, budgeting is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. Time blocking is telling your time where to go instead of wondering where it went. So it's the same basic idea now I have over the years, I think over time blocked as a founder, as a CEO, because I do believe that one of the signs and something that I look for. I know when we're talking to meeting with our clients and portfolio companies, CEOs, I actually want to see a fair bit of white space on their calendar. I think when you're a CEO, if every hour of every day is blocked in, that's usually a sign that you're probably micromanaging, that you're probably doing too much of the work that your team should be doing. So I get very, very nervous when I see a CE whose calendar is completely filled in and completely blocked. It's just a sign that you're doing too much of the work that your team should be doing. It's also a sign that you're not leaving room and capacity for serendipity. For strategy. So I'm applying that same rule to me. So my time blocking strategy does leave a lot of open space. It leaves a lot of white space. Also, it leaves a lot of space for what I would consider to be the work, like the real work, which when you're a CEO, very often it's just letting things come to you. Right. It's an acknowledgement that I'm going to show up. And my job is really to kind of deal with whatever things come up on this particular weekend. And time, that is always an aspect of the job. So for this particular time blocking strategy, it is definitely not going in and time blocking 40 to 50 hours of the entire week. So I just want to set that up. So the first thing, though, that I. That I did want to do, I found that I wasn't giving any time to intentional strategy, to just thinking strategically about the business. Like, we were doing it. We were doing strategic planning on a quarterly basis. But I would go months without giving any real strategic thought to the business. Zooming out and everything was only thinking about, okay, what do I need to deal with today? What's that thing? And I was just getting very sort of frantic, tantric. And it was all just like, you know, and it had me in, like this weird energy. And I just felt like I wasn't all that effective. Just very, very frantic. So I've now set aside 90 minutes each week on my calendar focused exclusively on strategy. And I actually put this. Originally, I had this on Monday. I moved this to the end of the week. So now this is on Thursday.

Roland Frazier (6:30)

Is that right? So this is experience the week and not come from kind of a cold start.

Ryan Deiss (6:35)

Bingo. I'm looking at performance, analyzing the trends, and it is just. There's no promised outcome. It's just the time where I can just sit there and just think, how did the week go? I'm looking at the company scorecards. How did it go?

Roland Frazier (6:52)

Do you have a process for that or is it just kind of general? Let me marinate in strategy.

Ryan Deiss (6:58)

It is. It starts with reviewing the company scorecards, because I want to see how is that going, reviewing where we are in the context of the strategy that we've set. So what are the goals? What are the key initiatives? So what, how are we doing in the context, like in the progress that we're making, and then just what changes, if any, do we need to make towards that? And again, these are all questions that we were asking on a monthly basis as a team. I'm now just asking them every single week. Just to myself. Now, I very often, rarely will I take this. And this does require some discipline because the tendency can be to now shift the strategy every single week. So if you're going to do this, and there's a time when I would have done that, you don't want to come in like a wrecking ball. And if you're going to do this, you're not allowed to literally change the fricking strategy every week. Okay. That's the only caveat that I put in this. But I do think it's important to have some strategic evaluation time. So that's kind of the first little time block that I put in, and that is Thursday afternoons. Okay. Do you want me just to go through them all or you want to chat about each one individually?

Roland Frazier (8:05)

Let's go through them.

Ryan Deiss (8:06)

Okay. Second thing, two hours that is only dedicated to connecting with key team members. I found I was no longer spending really any time meeting and connecting with the key members of the team for any type of mentorship, advising, anything. So this is. You're talking about just like basic one on ones. Now, lots of people, they're probably doing this. I was doing a little bit of it. I wasn't doing enough of it. And so I thought if the people are important enough, two hours in a week, I think that's a good use of time. So that was the first one. So blocked off strategic time, blocked off people time.

Roland Frazier (8:50)

Let me ask a contextual question. Yep. Is that because like the connecting with team members. If you have a team and you're a CEO, that makes sense. If you are an investor and not. And you have a CEO that is supposed to be in charge of running the company, or even if you have a general manager, do you still see that? Because it's a tough thing to think about. I think, am I a coach to these people or is the leader who I've put in place to lead those people the coach? And I'm supposed to coach that single person.

Ryan Deiss (9:38)

I believe that everybody who is in any leadership type position should be mentoring somebody. And so whether.

Roland Frazier (9:46)

I don't dispute that. I'm just saying, should it be you? Like, are you the CEO of that company?

Ryan Deiss (9:51)

So in this case, there. It's a combination where like for scalable, let's say, yeah, I'm CEOing that company. So there's a couple people I'm meeting with.

Roland Frazier (10:00)

Yeah. Okay.

Ryan Deiss (10:01)

So that would be the.

Ryan Deiss (10:02)

I'll clarify that.

Roland Frazier (10:02)

Because I think if you weren't CEO and you had a CEO, it might not be the best Thing for you to be having those.

Ryan Deiss (10:07)

Definitely you should not be meeting with some other, you know, one of your CEO's leadership team. But what you should be doing is meeting with that CEO probably. Absolutely.

Roland Frazier (10:16)

Yeah.

Ryan Deiss (10:16)

Yeah. And so in this case now we're meeting with the portfolio company CEOs. So. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm definitely not suggesting that you be doing one on ones, you know, skip level meetings as a part of this. And there is a place for skip level meetings, but that's probably not something to be time blocking into your meeting on.

Roland Frazier (10:33)

And at Nvidia and Tesla they are doing that.

Ryan Deiss (10:38)

Oh yeah, I think there's a place for skip level meetings. I just don't think that I would time block it in on a weekly basis.

Roland Frazier (10:43)

Okay, fair enough. All right, go ahead.

Ryan Deiss (10:45)

So we blocked off strategic time, people time. The third thing is focus time. This is something that I've always had but four hours each week for deep work focus time. And literally it's just two hours, two days a week. I found that that's about enough, oddly enough. And I'm getting. So I have blocked off and it just says focus time. And it for me it's on Tuesdays and it's on Wednesdays.

Roland Frazier (11:15)

I mean what I get back to back days.

Ryan Deiss (11:18)

This is time when I'm going to decide ahead of time what deep work I'm going to do. So I decide Sunday night that that is blocked off. So nobody can schedule a meeting with me there. My executive assistant can't put any time on my calendar, so it is blocked. And then the Sunday before I'm going to decide what I'm going to do during that time. So I do need to fill it in, but it's been blocked off.

Roland Frazier (11:41)

What are some examples of deep work?

Ryan Deiss (11:44)

So it could be if I am working on a book, then I might do my writing in that time. So if it's, if it's creative work, then it could be certainly anything creative that's going to require me to absolutely just sit there and do that. If I'm working on any type of framework, if I am building, if I decide during the strategic time that I need to work on some major key strategic initiative or strategic plan and I'm doing all the research around that, then I'm doing that memo writing. Right? So if I want to put forth a memo because I feel like we should change the strategic direction of it, that type of thing would, would, would be there. So it is a lot of writing. It is a lot of creative, whether it's internal Messaging or external messaging. That's most of what goes in there.

Roland Frazier (12:32)

Nice. Okay. Anything else?

Ryan Deiss (12:35)

And then the fourth thing is, is, and this was the one that I was completely missing recovery time. An afternoon each week just to kind of step away and recharge. I, I completely forgotten about that. Not. Yeah, not work. So could be a walk, could be a hobby. Just trying to get some downtime in, just to reset. Because the weekends for me are not. The weekends for me are family time. They are not restful. They're not re. They're not renewal really. They're not like the, the weekends are when I effectively do a lot of busy time with my family, which is great, I love it. But it's not restful.

Roland Frazier (13:15)

It's your family job. It's your family.

Ryan Deiss (13:17)

Yeah, it's. It's full time dad job. Same with evenings. Right. And so I've just found that I need to actually carve out some time during the work day because that, that rest is a form of work. It's not that I'm not thinking during that time. I absolutely am. And so I can read during this time and I do, I can go through courses and trainings and I do like it's fine, but I just, I need some time just to sit, just to sit back and be completely non, non committed. So in terms of what I block off, if you do the Math, you got four, basically four hours recovery time. You got four hours of focus block. So that's a total of eight. You got two hours of people, so that's 10. And you got 90 minutes of strategic time. If you round it up, you know, that's 11 and a half rounded up to 12. That still leaves a lot of open space in there that can get scheduled with meetings that can just be there for serendipity. But this is what I've been trying and so far it's been great. In those two, by the way, in those two focus blocks, those four hour blocks, I essentially get all the work in that that kind of the company needs and can consume that. It can really metabolize. Like it can't do a whole lot more than that.

Roland Frazier (14:35)

Yeah. And they say, isn't it, that most, Most people, including CEOs only have about two hours a day of actual productive time. So yeah, I mean it goes back.

Ryan Deiss (14:49)

To the, I bet in a given week I only do like 15 minutes of real solid work. That office space. I think it's very true. Yeah. And I can, like, what I can tell is when I don't schedule that, when I'm not intentional about what I'm going to do during those blocks. I don't do anything. I, like, wind up checking email. It just gets into busy work and it's completely useless, wasted time. And I feel it in the week. When I get to the end of the week, I can just feel it's not a very, you know, productive week at all.

Roland Frazier (15:22)

Yeah, I mean, I think if it's working for you, it sounds great. And I think that time blocking is a proven productivity increaser for, like, for me, I have, because I, you know, I'm older than you. I have. I have done time blocking and I found it frustrating because there were so many things because I am an overachiever, over committer, over doer of things, and I'm curious about everything that very often there would be things that would happen that required me to vary on a very regular basis from what I had blocked. Like if I'm doing a specific time, like on Thursday afternoon between 2pm and 4pm So I. So for me, it's still, I think, a form of time blocking, but it is variable time blocking. And what I am doing is basically I have my list of things that I want to accomplish in a given week and in a given month, and that is a list that I revisit four times a year. I have major revision, you know, going into the new year. And, you know, so let's call that goal setting. And, and it's written and it's category by category. And then what I do is I'll say, I'm going to do this twice a week for an hour. I'm going to do this, you know, once a month for three hours. Or I'm going to accomplish a thing. Like I'm going to read two books a month and it might be, I'm going to read two bunk book, two books, two nonfiction books a month. And read can be consumed. So maybe I'll listen to them, maybe I'll watch them, maybe I'll actually read them. But. But I find that that helps me more because I am not as in control of my time as I would like to be because there's so many other people whose schedules have to be coordinated with mine. And that if I wasn't available and you're not talking about a ton of time, I think you said 11 hours a week. So, you know, 25% effectively of your workweek is spoken for. It's just that the things that I do have that are regularly scheduled, like if there's a, you know, a standing meeting that's on Wednesday. Like I've got one on Wednesday from 10 to 12 or I'm doing a coaching call that's a standing coaching call that, you know, hundreds of people are expecting, you know, us to be on. And it's going to be Tuesday from 9am to 10:30am Those are the things that I try to keep those really, really, really to a minimum. And I think I've got three of them on my calendar. And other than that, all those other things including recovery time, which I don't have it scheduled, but it has worked out that I wake up about four and I have between four and eight to kind of do whatever I want. And during that time, like yesterday, I wrote a book outline, a book brief that I sent to you. You know, it's, and I did the research and you know, was just like all into it for that time. And I think from that we can have a book that's, that you and I are going to work on that's going to be amazing. And so that's, that's kind of a, I guess I would call it variable time blocking. That, that it's, it's much more task or goal based, but it's not like an amorphous goal. It's like I'm going to find. And I'm on it by looking at the schedule, even though it's not on the calendar. So I'm able to find the time. I'm looking at my kind of my task list and I'm saying, you know, oh crap, I haven't, you know, called my son and scheduled lunch up in Orange county and I want to do that at least once a month. I haven't done that. I got to get on that. And then I'm going to make that call and set that now that appointment is set.

Ryan Deiss (19:33)

But he works a weird schedule because.

Roland Frazier (19:35)

He works in an auto dealership. And so I don't know, he's never off the same days or times. So if I said we're going to have lunch every fourth Tuesday at noon, we'd miss probably 70% of them. So I find that, that, that's kind of an evolution of time blocking that has, has worked out for me. What do you think about that?

Ryan Deiss (19:53)

Yeah, I love it. And I probably should have mentioned this. My, my rule with these time blocks is they can be moved, they can be expanded and they can be multiplied. They just can't be deleted. So they're on there at a particular time that they usually happen. And so every Sunday when I do My planning, I can move them to a different time if something comes up.

Roland Frazier (20:14)

Yeah, okay.

Ryan Deiss (20:15)

They just. And if. And if there's nothing scheduled, for example, because my focus block, let's say, is from 9 to 11 on Tuesday. Well, if I don't have anything from 11 to noon, I take that and I pull it down from 11 to noon. And so usually I wind up getting more focus time than four hours. If it's not filled, I can fill it with other stuff. And yeah, there are other times in there that are claimed. I mean, I've got basically three standing meetings, same as you. There's a standing leadership meeting that I still go to every week that I'm. I think I got probably three more quarters before I'm going to be fully out of you. And I do do this. We do the podcast, which hopefully never really stops. And I've got essentially a time that I don't consider to be focus time, where I'm in studio, like recording some stuff that I just have as. As like a time that I got to be there. Yeah, those are kind of my only, like, standing times. I need to be there for the rest of these. Yeah. Move it, expand it, multiply it, just don't delete it. That's the rule.

Roland Frazier (21:22)

I like it. Yeah. So maybe we call it variable time blocking because it's, it's. It's basically an outline. You have it, which is better than not having it. So that it is. It's kind of, you know, dot, dot, dot penciled in and. And then it is subject to change. But you have a commitment to the block of time wherever it may fall in the week. Right.

Ryan Deiss (21:47)

Yep. Actual time, Actual day tv.

Roland Frazier (21:50)

I like it. I mean, it sounds like. Sounds like we have very similar systems.

Ryan Deiss (21:54)

Yeah. And so it doesn't seem like there's anything major that I missed because the biggies that I was missing before was the recovery time and the strategy time. Those are the ones that I added that I'm guessing.

Roland Frazier (22:04)

I do think that there is potentially two things that are missing. One is what are you doing for your health specifically? That might go under recovery time. But I think like a commitment to something that gets you moving is a. Is a good thing, even if it's, I'm going to do a physical activity as opposed to I'm going to play golf or I'm going to play pickleball or I'm going to do something like that and professional development would be. The other is like, what am I doing to advance myself and my knowledge outside of what I already know the other two that you might think about would be mine's once a month is outreach. So basically I'm going to go through my contacts list and reach out to people that I haven't talked to in a while to reconnect. Just because it's so easy to lose friendships and partnerships and relationships if you don't do that. And then the other thing that I added as a result of wanting to be a more interesting person because several years ago my wife told me she, she was like, she's like, she didn't want to go to some trip that was a business related trip, maybe it was like to Mexico for one of our things or something like that. And I said, I said, but you get to go and we hang out and spend time with the kids. Come with us. And there's beach. And she's like, it's all business. I'm like too smart to argue. No, it's not. There's 14% of the time is business. And if I divide 14% by the seven hours that I did this, then actually 92% of the, you know. No, no, no, it's all business. If she says it's all business, it's all business. Her feeling is valid. Her feeling is her feeling, right? So, so I started thinking about that and I was like, well, am I just like an all time business guy? Because I have lots of interests that aren't business. And that led me to think about like, well, I feel like that means I'm not interesting to her at that point because she's not interested in the thing that I am particularly focused on. So how can I be a more interesting person? I even googled how can I be a more interesting person? And I don't know if I talked with you about it. I know I talked with Jon Kronstadt about it and then he got like on a kick of it too. And it's like, well, I have to be more diverse. And so what am I going to do that is completely outside my normal information consumption and activity? And so now on my schedule blocked is that I'm going to do. I'm going to learn about something that is not related to business that I just am curious about. And it's got to be unrelated and different. And it's. I mentioned reading two nonfiction books. I've got to consume literature that is not, you know, the autobiography of Elon Musk and Warren Buffett's thoughts on this and how to scale your business that you know in the Mergers and Acquisitions Quarterly. Those don't count. Those make me less interesting, more professional development, probably better sharpen the saw, but definitely not be a more interesting human being. And what I found over the years that I've added those extra things is that the outreach to people has broadened my network and the focus on consuming non non core, non business things has caused me to find things that, that evilly, you know, I can apply back to business or I can talk about them with people. So like if I see something is on trend and everybody's reading, you know, I can't think of what it is now, but you know, the magical wonderfulness of tidying up, that sounds like a book that I would just fall asleep absolutely reading. And most books I think are terrible anyway. But I'm going to commit myself to a huge swath of the world has found this interesting. It's on trend. So I'll have lots of people who have also read it that I can talk with it about and I can talk intelligently having read it. So I'm going to eat that frog and I'm going to schedule it and I'm going to listen to the dang on thing I did it this, this year was podcasts because I so many people listen to podcasts and I don't, I just don't. I don't know how you have the time like to listen to Joe Rogan for four hours a podcast and I don't know how many does a week. But so I asked my wife, I said what are you listening to that I'm not? And she said, well, there's Julia Louise Dreyfus, the lady that played Elaine Elaine in Seinfeld. And Veep has a podcast where she interviews older women and it's called Wiser than Me. And she's interviews, you know, like Jane Fonda and Gloria Steinem and Nancy Pelosi, which is one I would never have listened to. And, and it's interesting because it's a.

Ryan Deiss (27:02)

Politics revealed there, but it's a very.

Roland Frazier (27:05)

Feminist leaning, left leaning, completely different perspective than I have interviewing people who are interesting to Dreyfus who is, you know, so, so I've learned a lot and my wife enjoys it. So now I can talk with her about it. And it's given me new insights and perspective into all these people like Patti LaBelle. I was really hard. I skipped the Patti LaBelle episode for, you know, for the longest time just because I'm like, you know, like I know Patty's music and she's great and all that but you know, and, but it was great. And so that, and then she and my son listened to a philosophy podcast called Philosophize this. And I really would love to know everything about philosophy, but unless I block it out and take the time to do it. So those are two podcasts in particular that I identified that I'm going to listen to an episode a week this year. And that's, you know, so, so this is a very, very, very, very long answer to your question. I don't know if it helps. Those categories are things that, that I've found that have, I believe, helped me to be more how I want to be.

Ryan Deiss (28:22)

Yeah, I love. So I was for mine. This is specifically in the. What I'm talking about here is kind of in the 9 to 5, my quote, unquote, CEO, you know, time block kind of thing. And but because I do have blocked out exercise time, I wish I could say I was as, you know, honorable to that time as, you know, as I should be.

Roland Frazier (28:41)

The first step is having it conscious in confidence is the first.

Ryan Deiss (28:44)

There you go. But so I, but yes, for my, for my personal time blocking because I. Because like date night, for example, you know, we have that time block. Yeah. And that's one that definitely because of the kids and their schedule gets moved around a lot. But you know, we try to keep that sacrosanct every week. So. But yes, I love the idea of adding those other elements in. I mean, I time blocked out, I'm going to play golf, you know, which, that's a big block, you know, if you know how long golf is. But I love adding in the avocational stuff and listening to things that aren't business related. I'm definitely going to add that the two that you mentioned that are specifically business related that I'm going to add to this professional development. I factor that in currently into recovery time. It probably deserves its own category. Yeah, but it probably deserves its own category. Now that I think, I think it does. Even if it's only 30 minutes, you know, it probably deserves its own category. And then outreach. That outreach was really, really smart. Cause boy, currently I do such a poor job at maintaining any sort of business relationship. And it's so easy just to do a quick touch. Hey, how's it going? How's life? And so that is such a small one to add that Thor show to this.

Roland Frazier (29:57)

It's especially easy during downtime. So like if you find yourself waiting in a line, you know, waiting for a reservation, waiting for somebody to show up to an appointment, like any of those kind of truly downtime or driving. Driving to me is a great time to listen to audiobooks at, you know. Now I will confess, I do all that stuff at double and triple speed. Like the, the podcasts. I can listen to it at close to a 3.0 and still absorb everything. So I'm not languishing around, you know, or, or lounging around in the podcast at the speed that people talk about, which is so daggone slow. So I am able to get hours in an hour.

Ryan Deiss (30:41)

Yeah, I don't know how you listen to triple. I'm usually pretty good at the 1.5.

Roland Frazier (30:46)

I'll tell you business stuff versus non business stuff. Business people, I believe, speak at a way faster rate. And it also has to be recorded at a very high rate or it clips and so you miss words. But listen to wiser than me at say 2.8, and it's like listening to an audiobook at 1.6, you know, okay, I'll buy that.

Ryan Deiss (31:10)

Because I know audiobooks are at least 2.0 or it's like y'all are killing me. So yeah, I'll buy that. Okay, I'll buy that. Yeah, so that's why it's helpful.

Roland Frazier (31:24)

Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, I like that. I think it's great. And, and whatever system works for you. Having a system is really important. If nothing else, it's again, goes back to something we've talked about as a recurring theme, which is what gets measured, gets managed. And so if you don't have an inventory of the things that you want to do during the week, then it's very likely that the week will go by and you will do. I call it comfort work. At work, when the accountant balances the checkbook instead of doing the budget, that's comfort work. The thing that's actually going to move the needle is going to have to be scheduled so that you can hold yourself accountable. Because if you don't have that list, that inventory of things you want to do during the week, you can't go back and say, what did I not do? How do I hold myself accountable? These things were important enough for me to commit to myself that I'm going to do them and I didn't. How do I fix that? Or how do I rearrange my priorities? Because maybe there are other things that I've determined were bad know, or it wasn't a realistic list of things. And, and so to me, like whatever you're doing, a time blocking kind of thing, you know, whether it's fixed traditional variable. Like you said, more task based within a, you know, time period. That kind of I do. Although yours and mine seem to be pretty close that like you got to have something. If you don't, then I think life just whisks by and find yourself a year down the road not having done any of the things you wanted to do. So hopefully that was helpful. If you guys enjoyed it, please share it. If you didn't, keep it to yourself and we'll see you next time on Business Lunch.

Ryan Deiss (33:19)

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