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- [00:00]
Ryan Dice
Personality in the world. So I threw all that out there just to say it just kind of got me thinking about a lot of things.
- [00:07]
Roland Frazier
What do you think about all that?
- [00:08]
Jason Cohen
Yeah, I mean, this is the eternal struggle, Entrepreneurial struggle, right? Yeah. And I see people kind of vacillate between two extremes, and on one extreme, I see people who are so concerned about their legacy, and people ask me that all the time, like, what do you want your legacy to be? What's your legacy? What's your legacy? You know? Cause they really want to make a massive. They're very impact centric, and they want to make a massive impact on the world. And they essentially want to not necessarily live forever, but be remembered forever. Right. They want to be important, but not just like, as somebody who made a lot of money, but somebody who made a difference. And so when they say legacy, they're like, I just want my legacy to live on. I want to be remembered as somebody who.
- [00:56]
Ryan Dice
Hey, everybody. Ryan Dice and Roland Frazier here with another episode of the Business Lunch podcast. Ryan, how you doing today?
- [01:03]
Jason Cohen
Spectacularly well. And yourself?
- [01:06]
Ryan Dice
I am doing quite well as well, despite the fact that above my head, although you can't see it right now, is an atmospheric river, apparently on the precipice of dumping gallons and gallons and gallons of water on top of me.
- [01:21]
Jason Cohen
Yeah. For those who. Who are not familiar, Roland lives in Southern California. We'll give his address at the end of the show if you just want to drop by and say hi. He loves that kind of thing people.
- [01:28]
Ryan Dice
Have in the past, that's for sure.
- [01:30]
Jason Cohen
Yeah. Just knock. Just knock. And immediately just give him a big hug. His favorite thing in the world. And then as. As you hug him, if he starts to pull away, that's a sign to pull in tighter and then go, ah, you smell so good. That's his favorite thing. So again, address coming at the end of the show. That's kind of a bonus. But no, you live in the show. Let's just say Southern. The show notes you live in Southern California, where it generally never rains. It's raining a lot. Are you worried about flooding? Are you all going to be okay? Seriously? We.
- [01:59]
Ryan Dice
We are good. We are good. It's. It. It. The news always really, really, really overstates things. So we're good. It's. It is wet outside.
- [02:11]
Jason Cohen
It's.
- [02:11]
Ryan Dice
I can control.
- [02:12]
Jason Cohen
It is wet. Well, it's either wild wildfires or. Or rain. One of the two is going to get you. So.
- [02:17]
Ryan Dice
Yes, so. Or earthquakes. Right. Don't forget those. So, Yeah, I was I came across something that I thought was interesting to talk about. There was kind of a guy that I followed when I was younger. He was just larger than life. A guy named Teddy Forstman. And he had, I think it was Forstman Little was his private equity firm. And he did, started with small deals, kind of came from nothing. He had a brother that he was always competitive with, but he basically built up a fund, became acquired and became the CEO of Gulfstream Jets. Turned it around, got a going away present, a G5 as a going away present. He flew everywhere. He had dalliances with Princess Di and Elizabeth Hurley. He dated. I think it was IMG Agency. Yeah, yeah, he, he bought the IMG agency and was CEO of that. And, and lots and lots of other things made. I think he bought, I think that he bought the GulfStream company for like 880 million and sold it for 3.5 billion. I mean crazy, crazy numbers. And, and so he, this is a guy that I kind of looked up to as a model for who I wanted to be when I was younger and kind of coming up and thinking, gosh, those private equity guys, that seems like a pretty good deal. Anyway, this. He ultimately got brain cancer later in his life, but still in his prime. And, and it killed him relatively quickly. And he had gone through multiple ghostwriters to write a biography about him. And so this was an article that was in Vanity Fair that was written by the last ghostwriter that he hired whose name was Rich Cohen. And basically it kind of goes through what it was like as Cohen was with him. And he kind of found that despite he's got a $40 million house that overlooks the Central park and he's got a 30 some million dollar house in the Hamptons and his G5 and flies all over the world and all that. He's unmarried, he has no kids, although he did adopt two. He's a very difficult guy, but he's also a very generous guy. And so I like it for a couple of things. One is, so here are the three things I got out of it. One is the marginal utility of wealth. At some point when do you have enough that no matter how much more you have, it's really not going to make any difference. That's thing one. Thing two is the work life balance, which we've talked about a few times. Here's a guy that was a passionate, amazing business person, but really skewed so far towards that that he didn't have time for a personal life. He had kind of a, you Know, a playboy lifestyle, but not like deep meaningful relationships. And then, and then this dichotomy between that. Despite being a very difficult person and in several situations I read about kind of a jerk, he would also, like, he'd argue with the waiter, but then he'd leave him a hundred dollar tip under the plate. You know, just one of those kinds of people. So I thought it would be interesting just to talk about, about him. He's. He's gone now. It also was interesting how if you don't have your health, you have nothing because he had everything. And then he got a brain tumor and he was gone relatively quickly. And then after that, the legacy that he left while he, he had adopted two kids. I don't know what happened to them because it didn't say. But his houses were all sold off, his company was closed down and it was almost like he ceased to exist. Like he had never existed despite being this big personality in the world. So I threw all that out there just to say it just kind of got me thinking about a lot of things.
- [06:30]
Roland Frazier
What do you think about all that?
- [06:33]
Jason Cohen
Yeah, I mean, this is the eternal struggle, entrepreneurial struggle, right? Yeah. And I see people kind of vacillate between two extremes and on one extreme I see people who are so concerned about their legacy and people ask me that all the time, like, what do you want your legacy to be? What's your legacy? What's your legacy? You know, because they really want to make a massive, they're very impact centric and they want to make a massive impact on the world. And they essentially want to not necessarily live forever, but be remembered forever. Right. They want to be important, but not just like as somebody who made a lot of money, but somebody who made a difference. And so when they say legacy, they're like, I just want my legacy to live on. I want to be remembered as somebody.
- [07:16]
Ryan Dice
Who cared of that.
- [07:20]
Jason Cohen
I think that I will be forgotten within a generation by basically everybody except maybe. Yeah. So I don't think that extreme, that extreme doesn't does very little to me. But then it can kind of make us feel a little bit like nihilistic. Well, you know, that none of it really matters. And then everything seems to shift over and we know people like this as well, who it's, we'll eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. And so it's like, let's just maximize everything that we can have, you know, in this moment, achieve full, maximum experience in this time. Because, you know, nothing in the future matters. And I can And I've seen that depending on what they mean by eat, drink and be merry being very destructive but also leading to kind of this life of, you know, well, why bother having if I'm not gonna be remembered? Why bother getting married? Why bother having kids? And look, I'm not gonna anybody who chooses to be single, you know, you know, married couples who choose not to have kids, I'm not making a judgment on that decision. But it, those seem to be the two extremes and I just think they're both so fatally flawed.
- [08:24]
Ryan Dice
Also personally, both totally ego driven. I think one is stamping your feet and pouting because you're not going to be remembered because you realize that most people will not be. And two, feeling that you've got to have people know you who don't know you now, years from now. Whereas I think the middle ground of you have an opportunity to have an impact around you every single day. And when you cease to exist, your impact will diminish over time because that's just how things are. And that's okay. So don't be the egomaniac, do the good things now and maybe you'll accidentally be remembered. But I think like the plot to have, the plot to have a will I get, you know, let me distribute my assets to my heirs when I'm dead, let me give it to charity and do good things. But the idea of I want future generations to revere me to me just seems so ego based. And then the little kid reaction of I'm not going to be remembered, so screw you, I'm going to hold my breath and I'm going to, you know, do all the things I'm not supposed to do. Seems also crazy ego, crazy selfish. So how do you balance that out?
- [09:42]
Jason Cohen
I think so Jason Cohen, who he, he started WP Engine, which is a WordPress hosting solution. We did we pay rent to them.
- [09:51]
Ryan Dice
In London for like a long time or something?
- [09:53]
Jason Cohen
No, that was a totally different company. But yeah, no, this is a Austin based company hosting company. They and Jason has a really good blog. I think it's a smartbear.com just to give credit. I don't remember exactly what he said but his point was there's business, there's spouse or partner, there's kids, there's your health and you can kind of do two of those really well at any given time. Like you could do two of them really, really well. And I remember reading that and thinking, well that's not true, that's wrong. Like there's, you know, I don't believe that, you know, you got. You got to give me at least three because, like, you know, I gotta have business. And, you know, and he made a point of saying that your relationship, you know, your romantic partner, that is separate from your kids, so you don't just get to bundle family in. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized, like, he kind of makes a point. He makes a point. And at any given time, when I think about it, I think I'm really only being like, we always have companies, right? And so business, I may not want to admit it, but that is what feeds everything else. So at any given time, if I'm being honest, it's probably number one right now. If it stays number one constantly, that's a problem. And thankfully, I've got a wife that will call me on that. But there's business and then there's times when, you know, my wife and I are. We're focusing on us. We're going on trips, we're doing things just the two of us. And frankly, my mom's watching the kids. And so, like, that week, I'm probably not the best dad in the world. Cause I'm not even there. But I. But I am a good dad because I'm loving their mom, right? And then Emily and I will have conversations where it's like, yeah, I mean, this is, you know, like last week and this week, it's crazy with kids stuff, school stuff. So we're not getting as much quote, unquote, quality time together. But we know that it's a season. And I think that that's important is to be intentional about your seasons and to have seasons in life within the year. So so many people want to define their businesses. Like, I'm all in on this, you know, crazy life, or I'm all in on legacy. The reality is there should be an ebb and flow. There should be seasons to the year in the same way that you've got a winter, spring, summer, and fall. And so I think being intentional about that's important. The way that I do this is. I think it's going to show up on your calendar. So my wife and I, we get together at the end of every year. And I've got this calendar tool that I pull up where I can literally see on a single sheet of paper every day of the year. And I will highlight what are the days that I'm going to be all in on business. There's a lot of Monday through Friday on that. But what are the weeks where we're Going to go and take a family trip together. And what are the times when just my wife and I are going to do things? What are the times that I'm going to look to do stuff, you know, for me, for rest, renewal. And they're different colors and I can literally hold that away from my face and look at it and go, colorfully speaking, that's pretty balanced. Yeah, right. When I just look at the colors, it feels balanced. That's been my answer to it. And in terms of as long as I feel like I'm being true to the things that I say matter, which for me is obviously the business, obviously my marriage, my family, my faith, friends love you. Friends mean it. You're a distant five. It's why kind of, you know, you and I are friends and thank God we own companies together. We'd never hang out because we're busy, so.
- [13:21]
Ryan Dice
True, true.
- [13:22]
Jason Cohen
But as long as, as long as I stay true to those things that are, that I say are a priority and it manifests itself in my calendar, I feel like I'm living a balanced and fulfilled life. And that gets updated. There's going to come a time when the kids are all gone and grown, and now that'll, that'll be less than probably the time that I'm sitting with my wife. It just will by, by virtue of the fact that they're living their own lives. I don't worry about legacy at all. As long as I'm remembered by the kids, I'm good.
- [13:52]
Ryan Dice
Yeah, that's such an ego thing to me. Okay, so let's talk about that marginal utility of money. When do you have enough that it makes sense to channel down on the business? And is that even the right question? Because maybe you love doing the business stuff so much that you don't really want. But, but let's start with just money, because a lot of people work to have freedom or the, to make money, so they, you know, they are able to have the things that they want. When do you think that, that you hit that point where it doesn't, it doesn't move the needle like an extra.
- [14:36]
Jason Cohen
Between like 10, 10 to 20 million in liquid assets is kind of the first sort of phase where, know, are you necessarily buying a jet at that point? Probably not. But are you flying private if you want to. And frankly, once you're sort of flying private, I mean, what's up from there? Having a, a yacht? Like, I don't. You can charter those. Like, you don't, you don't need that. Like, I mean, at Some point.
- [15:01]
Ryan Dice
The.
- [15:02]
Jason Cohen
I think that after about 10 to 20 million, the marginal utility, especially if you still have some income of, of liquid net worth, the marginal utility really does go away. There's nothing else that you need that you can't just go and get. You do have freedom. You can say no, you can get away from all the, I should do this. And I do believe there's also a point where not only does the marginal utility go down, but it actually becomes a negative. Like when you were at hundreds of millions of dollars and billions of dollars, you now have a job that's called stewarding and shepherding that wealth. And that's not an easy job, but it is a full time job. Unless you want to do what some folks have done, just give it all away, which is by the way, why they've done that. I mean, yeah, there's tax benefits or.
- [15:46]
Ryan Dice
Hire a family entrepreneurs. Right? They'll outsource it. Yeah, yep, yep.
- [15:51]
Jason Cohen
Yeah, but I mean, but then you still got to manage the family office and oversee their investments. So that's been my experience. What do you think? You live in California though, so for you maybe it's like 50 million.
- [16:02]
Ryan Dice
I was trying to think about that as you were saying it. I think it's probably a hundred. To where like, okay, I have 100 million now some opportunity comes along and it's going to pay me 5 million. You know, unless I really want to do it, I'm not going to do it. If I have 50 million and I have the ability to increase my net worth by 10%. You know, I guess it's relative to the, to the offers. But at 50, I probably don't feel set. You know, at 100 I feel set. That's it's going to be 100, you know, I think it's going to be 100.
- [16:40]
Jason Cohen
Yeah. And I think for me the reason, part of the reason that my number is lower is because I know what I'm willing to do and invest. Because four kids, my oldest, you know, I got man months before that, that little jerk. And I call him a little jerk because when you turn five, I, I made him promise not to grow anymore. I made him promise to stay five. And he said he would. He did. He lied to me. He just kept getting older and you know, he's going to graduate from high school this year, he's going to go off in college and then that sets a pattern of every other year, you know, another kid leaves the nest. And so I'm looking at like, you know, whoa, the time that I have with them, you know, under my roof, hopefully. I know they do from time to time come back, but the time I have with them is limited. And so I'm more prioritizing that. So the idea of doing something that's going to give me a 10, 20% net worth increase if it means that I miss out on something significant today may not be worth it. Ten years. Giddy up, you know, Giddy up. Kids don't care. They're having their own kids. They want to, they want to be left alone. You know, I think, I think we'll see. And I think a lot of that does speak to, you know, we're at different, slightly different stages and points of, you know, life and obligations. Yeah. So it's probably a good perspective to have. Maybe, maybe in five, ten years it'll be 100 million for me too.
- [18:03]
Ryan Dice
Yeah. Yeah. I just, I think if you're at that point, I, there, there isn't a lot that you can't do. You're kind of doing everything you want to do. You want to charter a plane, you want to charter a yacht, you want to buy a plane, you want to buy a yacht, you want to, you know, you can't maybe buy a football team. You know, that's, that's, that, that would.
- [18:22]
Jason Cohen
Be, you can buy partial ownership of. I mean, so many things are fractionalized now that if, you know, probably the bigger issue there is you don't know the right people.
- [18:32]
Ryan Dice
Yeah, true. Truthfully, around 10 million. I think you can, you know, you can't do it all the time. Like you couldn't, you couldn't do all the things. I think when you have 100, you can do all the things if you want to. Not that you would want to, but that you could. So that's, that's that marginal utility thing. And so I think, I think for me, though, I'm always interested in, like, I, I love what I do. I'm going to continue to do what I do for the rest of my life because as long as I can, because I love it. And so they're. The marginal utility of the money isn't why I work. So the work life balance thing really becomes a, this is a hobby that I really like doing a lot. It happens to pay well and I have to balance how much time am I putting into that versus those other things. So I think I like the, I like the, the four things that, that. Who was it mentioned? Who was, what was the guy?
- [19:28]
Jason Cohen
Jason Cohen. Yeah, he said there, these are like the four or five. I think it's five things. I think it's business relationship, like partner, family, so kids and relatives, friends and health. Pick two. You can really do two at any, at any given time, really, really well. But I don't believe you have to pick two into perpetuity. I think you could probably say this week, you know, I'm going to do and things do need to compound. Or this month or this year. There have been years. Right. If I'm being honest, busy season in life, busy season in kids. Kind of like let the health go.
- [20:07]
Ryan Dice
Yeah.
- [20:07]
Jason Cohen
Not proud of it, but I knew that I had to be intentional. And I think that's the key. If you're just intentional about what you're doing, you don't let it happen. Or you're not delusion, you're not deluding yourself into believing that you can do it all so that you truly feel guilt when you fall short. Probably going to be okay.
- [20:25]
Ryan Dice
Yeah, I think you're right. Love to hear what you guys think about that. Just something that, that was an interesting article of. Big, huge. From nothing big, huge life, famous people, wealth in the news, in the, you know, papers all the time to gone in a second and three years later pretty much forgotten. That was, that was an interesting study. A very extreme case, I think, of work over everything else. But, but I thought it was, I thought it was interesting. So love to hear what you guys think about that. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Business Lunch and we'll see you next time.
- [21:15]
Roland Frazier
Hey, Roland Frazier here. If you're looking for a way to grow your business exponentially to get more customers and ultimately increase your wealth, there's no faster way to do it than to acquire other businesses that already have the customers, products, services, teams and media that you want. If you want to double your sales, just acquire a company that has the same sales as yours. It sounds simple, but far too many people end up starting new businesses that fail and forget that they could skip all the hard stuff and just acquire one that already exists. There's a reason why private equity firms, family offices, big companies like Apple, Google, and some of the smartest entrepreneurs on the planet do not start new businesses from scratch. They acquire already successful businesses and when they do it, they instantly increase their sales, their profits. If they want market share, they increase that they can get new products and services to offer, all instantly. Hey look, 90% of new businesses fail. 90%. Why not acquire an already successful business and increase your chances of success by 900%?
- [22:22]
Ryan Dice
What most people don't realize is you.
- [22:23]
Roland Frazier
Can acquire highly profitable businesses with no money out of your own pocket in pretty much any country in the world, regardless of your credit and without having to go find a bunch of investors or needing any experience. Look, I've been acquiring businesses for over 30 years now and I cover the whole process in my EPIC Investing Strategy training and I want to give it to you 100% free. Just visit businesslunchpodcast.com epic to get your free access to my EPIC Investing training right now with free while it's available. Hey, Roland Frazier here.
- [23:04]
Ryan Dice
If you're looking for a way to.
- [23:06]
Roland Frazier
Grow your business exponentially to get more customers and ultimately increase your wealth, there's no faster way to do it than to acquire other businesses that already have the customers, products, services, teams and media that you want. If you want to double your sales, just acquire a company that has the same sales as yours. It sounds simple, but far too many people end up starting new businesses that fail and forget that they could skip all the hard stuff and just acquire one that already exists. There's a reason why private equity firms, family offices, big companies like Apple, Google, and some of the smartest entrepreneurs on the planet do not start new businesses from scratch. They acquire already successful businesses and when they do it, they instantly increase their sales, their profits. If they want market share, they increase that, they can get new products and services to offer, all instantly. Hey look, 90% of new businesses fail. 90%. Why not acquire an already successful business and increase your chances of success by 900%?
- [24:09]
Ryan Dice
What most people don't realize is you.
- [24:11]
Roland Frazier
Can acquire highly profitable businesses with no money out of your own pocket and in pretty much any country in the world, regardless of your credit and without having to go find a bunch of investors or needing any experience. Look, I've been acquiring businesses for over 30 years now and I cover the whole process in my EPIC Investing Strategy training and I want to give it to you 100% free. Just visit businesslunchpodcast.com epic to get your free access to my EPIC investing training right now while it's available.