Oprah Winfrey (3:47)

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Stedman Graham (4:33)

For Life from Wonder E. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is Business Members. Oprah Winfrey's life had begun in poverty in rural Mississippi by the time she turned 50 in 2004. Though she'd been a household name in America for two decades and was still a fixture in the daily lives of women across the country. Over the years, she had helped her audience of millions through breakups at home and promotions at work, national tragedies and moments of glory. Oprah was more than just a broadcasting sensation, however. She had also become a canny entrepreneur. At the heart of her business empire was Harpo, the production company that made her millions of dollars every year. But Oprah also had a founder's stake in the television network Oxygen. And in the late 1990s, she had entered a partnership with the publishing giant Hearst to launch the bestselling o magazine. Oprah's reach was incomparable. When she endorsed a dieting product, it sold out. When she picked a novel for her book club, it became a guaranteed bestseller. And when she declared she wasn't eating beef anymore, Stock prices of an entire industry slumped. But around the turn of the millennium, Oprah started to feel that it might be time to say goodbye to the Oprah Winfrey show. Daytime talk TV audiences were in steady decline across the board. And besides that, Oprah had achieved everything she wanted in that realm. Now she began to wonder what the rest of the world might have in store for her. This is the fourth episode in our four part series on Oprah Winfrey living her best life. It's September 2004 in the production office of the Oprah Winfrey show, five years before Oprah decides to bring the program to an end. Sitting at her desk, one of Oprah Winfrey's producers peers down a list of prospective audience members. Producers don't usually vet the studio audience, but they're preparing for Oprah's favorite things segment. And this year, it's bigger than ever. Oprah plans to give away 276 Pontiacs. It's costing the show millions of dollars. But Oprah only wants the cars to go to people whose lives will be genuinely changed by them. So her team is taking extra care to find the right recipients. The producer picks up the phone and dials the number of the next potential audience member. Hello? Hi, is this Miranda? Yeah, that's me. Hello. So nice to talk to you. This is Ellen with the Oprah Winfrey show. Oh, my goodness. Hello. How are you? Does this mean I have a ticket? Well, I have a few questions for you first, if that's all right. Sure, sure. Ask away. The producer is careful with her work. Oprah doesn't want anyone giving away the surprise. We like having a good variety in the studio, so we're trying to get a sense of who our audience members might be for this season opener. I've got here that you're 41 and a teacher, Is that right? Yes. I teach kindergarten here in Chicago. And, man, those kids are my everything. Well, that's wonderful. And do you live close to work? Not really, no. I did at my old job, but then I moved to another school, and I can't really afford to live in that neighborhood. Oh, I understand. But how do you get to work? Do you walk or bike? Take a car? Well, I take the bus, actually, which I don't mind. I get on zone out for a bit. It helps me decompress after the school day, you know? I mean, I love those kids, but they can be a lot.

Oprah Winfrey (8:16)

I bet.

Stedman Graham (8:16)

I bet. So you don't own a car? No. Well, I did, but it broke down a few months ago. I had to get rid of it. And, well, you know, on a teacher's salary, there's always been something more pressing to spend money on, you know, So I do miss it for trips out of the city, though. I love hiking. If there were good, reliable buses, I'd take them. But you can end up feeling a little trapped. I completely understand. But you know what? I think things might change for you soon. Well, I hope so, but what makes you say that?

Oprah Winfrey (8:45)

Oh, I just got a feeling.

Stedman Graham (8:49)

When Oprah Winfrey announced that every person in the studio audience was getting a car, screams erupted over their excitement. Oprah shouted, you get a car, and you get a car. Everybody gets a car. It became an iconic moment, famous even among those who never watched a talk show in their lives. But the stunt was also a symbol of the final phase of the Oprah Winfrey Show. Whether it would be giving away a fleet of Pontiacs or exclusive interviews with the world's biggest movie stars, this era of Oprah's show was about going bigger and better. After two decades on air, Oprah Winfrey had to try new things if she wanted to keep her audience's attention. That was especially true now that competition was fiercer than ever. And it wasn't just her fellow talk show hosts like Jerry Springer and Judge Judy she had to worry about. Thanks to the advent of the Internet, Oprah increasingly had to compete with bloggers and YouTube stars. She worried that if she slowed down even a little bit, she would quickly become obsolete. But it wasn't just about ratings for Oprah. She had a clear vision for her show. Unlike rivals, who used controversy to win audiences, Oprah believed she was in the business of making people's lives better. So the car giveaway would be far from Oprah's last altruistic stunt. Just a few months later, in November 2004, she surprised a Starbucks barista whose biggest dream in life was to meet Oprah. That was an easy wish to fulfill. But Oprah did far more than just shake the woman's hand and sign an autograph. This barista was supporting a family of 12, including her elderly mother, her own children, and several nieces and nephews. They were all crammed into a tiny apartment, sleeping three to a bed. Oprah decided to change that. She bought the family a new home and offered to personally fund the kids college education. Her audience lapped up the story. But Oprah and her team knew that one success was never enough. They were only as good as their last episode. The Oprah Winfrey show ran five days a week for most of the year, and they could produce the most amazing, groundbreaking hour of television. But then they'd have to do it all over again the next day. Oprah and her staff kept looking for new and eye catching ways to make every episode of the show matter. But they couldn't deny that it was becoming harder. As the months went by, the ideas under discussion became more outlandish. At one production meeting, they even ended up debating whether there was a way to send the show into outer space. Someone mentioned getting in contact with Richard Branson, the billionaire business tycoon who had recently launched a new space tourism company. Oprah eventually shot down that idea. But she had come to terms with the fact that improving people's lives, one daily talk show episode at a time, wasn't sustainable in the long run. If she wanted to make meaningful change, she would need to think even bigger. Perhaps that was in the back of her mind as the heated Democratic primary campaign between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama took off off in 2007. Oprah had been a fan of Obama throughout his early days in the Illinois Senate. And now that he was in the presidential race, she wanted to show her support. She started out small, holding fundraisers on his behalf and dropping hints about her feelings and comments during interviews. But eventually, she felt the election was too important for subtlety. It was time to make a proper public endorsement. In December 2007, Oprah traveled to Iowa to attend an Obama campaign rally. She took to the stage in Des Moines and officially endorsed Obama in front of a crowd of 15,000 cheering people. But though she's very comfortable broadcasting her show to millions, she felt nervous. She had never made her political leanings a secret, but she had never explicitly endorsed a candidate before either. And she was also concerned about what the reaction would be from her audience. And with Good reason. Her endorsement was not universally welcomed. Shortly after Oprah's endorsement, the polling group Gallup found that her favorability rating with the public had fallen from 74% to 66, while her unfavorability had leapt by more than half, from 17% to 26. Most critics attributed the slump directly to her endorsement of Obama. A majority of Oprah's audience were white, middle aged women who were either Republicans or supported Obama's rival, Hillary Clinton. But despite the disappointment of some of her fans, Oprah was not deterred from her new role as political campaigner. She continued appearing at Obama events, helping him attract some of the largest crowds of the entire primary season. Her support would pay off. According to two economists, Oprah's role in the primary campaign would boost Obama's support by about a million votes and help him narrowly clinch the Democratic nomination ahead of Hillary Clinton. So despite the dip in Oprah's personal approval ratings, it seemed that the Oprah effect still packed a punch. And with her growing influence on the political stage boosting her profile even further, Oprah felt confident to plot another expansion in her business empire. She decided to start her own television network. She already owned a stake in one new channel. In the late 1990s, she. She had invested millions of dollars in Oxygen, the brainchild of a former Nickelodeon executive. But that venture had not turned out the way Oprah had anticipated. After its launch in 2000, oxygen had struggled to find its feet. Eventually, the network had achieved a level of success by shifting its focus to reality shows aimed at a younger female demographic. But that was not the kind of TV Oprah was interested in making, and she had stopped offering her reruns to the channel. In 2007, though, oxygen's more youthful focus wanted a new admirer, the industry giant NBC, who made an offer to buy the channel for around $1.3 billion in modern money. That deal quickly went through. Oxygen may not have become what Oprah had envisioned, but that didn't deter her from trying again. She would launch another TV network that built on the lessons she had learned from Oxygen. And this time, she would make sure she was the one in charge. Oprah shopped the idea around Los Angeles until she eventually agreed to a deal with Warner Brothers Discovery. In the 50:50 joint venture, Discovery would put up $100 million in startup funds, and Oprah would provide Harpo's library of content and soon own the Oprah Winfrey network was born. Oprah herself would serve as the chairwoman of the new channel, and she would have the power to develop programming as she saw fit, as well as decide on the branding and overall creative vision for the channel. The deal was announced to the world on January 15, 2008, and in a statement, Oprah said the Oprah Winfrey Network is the evolution of the work I've been doing in television all these years and a natural extension of my show. What was less clear at this stage, however, was the future of her show. It was obvious that Warner Brothers Discovery hoped this new deal might give the company the chance to poach the Oprah Winfrey show and its star. Soon, though, rumors would begin to swirl that the Oprah Winfrey Network was not promising a bright new feature for Oprah's talk show, but instead signaling its doom.

Lindsey Graham (16:02)

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Oprah Winfrey (16:54)

Because maybe you only bought two wreaths.

Lindsey Graham (16:56)

But have 12 windows. Or maybe your toddler got very eager with the Advent calendar. Or maybe the inflatable snowman didn't make it through the snowstorm. Or maybe the twinkle lights aren't twinkling. Whatever the reason, this season Instacart's here.

Oprah Winfrey (17:10)

For hosts and their whole holiday haul. Get decorations from the Home Depot, CVS.

Lindsey Graham (17:15)

And more through Instacart and enjoy free.

Oprah Winfrey (17:17)

Delivery on your first three orders.

Lindsey Graham (17:19)

Service fees and terms apply.

Oprah Winfrey (17:35)

It's April 2009 in a Chicago conference room, a little over a year after Oprah Winfrey announced own her joint venture with Warner Brothers Discovery. With a shake of her head, Oprah refills her glass of water. Across the gleaming table from her sits David Zaslav, the 49 year old CEO of Discovery Communications. Oprah is feeling frustrated and is beginning to wonder whether the Oprah Winfrey Network will ever get off the ground. The global recession has thrown all their plans into doubt, and both partners in the new network are starting to question the other's commitment to the project. Well, to be honest with you, David, I feel we're going in circles. Meeting after meeting, I get shown all these promo materials about how OWN could be this or could be that. But I'm tired of talking about what it could be. I want it to actually do something. Well, Oprah, with all due respect, that would be easier if you were fully committed yourself. Well, I am committed. You're half in, half out right now. If you want this to succeed, we need more than 50% of you. Your heart's in this network, but we've only got you contracted for 35 hours of original programming a year. Well, you know, I have to finish my commitment to the Oprah Winfrey Show. Of course, of course, and we understand that, but there's only a year or so left on your contract. Have you put any thought into bringing the show over to OWN once your current deal ends? It would help tremendously with ad sales. I think that would feel like a step backwards. Like we don't have any fresh ideas, just a 25 year old talk show. I mean, I love my show, of course, but it's on its last legs. Oprah, to this day, you are consistently pulling in 40 million viewers a week. From where I'm sitting, those last legs still look pretty strong. It's had its day. I want to look to the future. Well, I hate to paint a depressing picture here, but there may not be a future for OWN without your show. The recession is just killing market budgets. It's an issue across the industry. We're simply not getting the advertisers we anticipated. They don't believe our subscriber projections. Without established shows, they want sure bets. And the Oprah Winfrey show is the surest of sure bets. In the fall of 2009, the premiere of the Oprah Winfrey Network was pushed back indefinitely. Industry insiders began to suspect that the new channel was doomed. But then Oprah Winfrey decided to make a clear commitment. She named one of her most trusted producers at Harpo Productions as the new chief creative officer at OM it was intended as a signal that Oprah's future lay with a new network. But it did nothing to answer the big question that what Oprah was going to do with the Oprah Winfrey Show. For the Premiere of the 24th season of Oprah Winfrey's talk show, she and her staff planned something spectacular. They got the city of Chicago to shut down Michigan Avenue for a performance by the musical group the Black Eyed Peas. But what Oprah did Not know was that her producers had a surprise in store for her, too. As the Black Eyed Peas took the stage and began to sing, the 20,000 fans in the streets stood completely still, almost looking bored. Oprah was confused. But then one woman started dancing. Then ten more, a hundred more. And then all of a sudden, the entire crowd burst out in a choreographed dance. Oprah notoriously hated surprises because they were out of her control. But she was thrilled with this flash mob. The idea of all these Chicagoans coming out to do something for her brought tears to her eyes. Especially because Oprah knew something the rest of them didn't. That the opportunity for moments like this was passing. One month later, on November 20, 2009, Oprah announced that she would be ending the Oprah Winfrey show after its 25th season. The last thing Oprah wanted was to overstay her welcome on TV and have her audience feel like her best days were behind her. But her announcement was more than a farewell. It was an invitation to viewers to join Oprah for the next stage of her journey on the Oprah Winfrey Network. Now that the future of the talk show had been resolved, Oprah committed wholeheartedly to the new channel. And she negotiated a new contract with Discovery to reflect that. Much to David Zaslav's disappointment, it did not include recreating the Oprah Winfrey Show. But Oprah did agree to increase the hours of original content she'd produced from the original 35 to 70 hours. Every year, she would start new shows like Oprah's Next Chapter, in which she would travel around the world and conduct interviews to be shown in prime time. She also agreed to make appearances on other programming like youe Own Show, a reality competition hoping to discover the next Oprah Wininfrey. Still, with 24 hours a day to fill, that left plenty of slots in the schedule. So Oprah took the opportunity to introduce more spiritual content. She had tried that once before on the Oprah Winfrey show, and it hadn't quite worked. But that didn't dissuade her from trying again. She still had faith in the transformative power of spiritual awakening. And as the ultimate goal of the new channel was to reflect Oprah's personality, she made sure spiritual programming received prime placement and schedules. So with this new plan established, the Oprah Winfrey Network got an official premiere date on January 1, 2011. It would go live to around 80 million households across the United States. But before Oprah gave the network her full attention, she wanted to give her talk show a proper send off. In May of 2011, Oprah hosted the final episodes of the Oprah Winfrey Show. First, there was a star studded event at the home of the Chicago Bulls basketball team. More than 20,000 adoring fans filled the arena to say goodbye to Oprah, and a host of celebrities joined her on stage, including Will Smith, Michael Jordan, Beyonce, Madonna, and Tom Hanks. But the most special guest of all was a figure from Oprah's past. As a teenage runaway, Oprah had been given a hundred dollar bill by the music legend Aretha Franklin. Now, decades later, they stood together on stage and Oprah listened as Aretha sang Amazing Grace, a tribute to everything she had achieved since she was that scared young woman in Milwaukee. But as spectacular as that celebration was, Oprah knew her real goodbye wouldn't come in front of tens of thousands of people at a basketball arena. It would come in the same place. It all began in a television studio. The next day, Oprah was back at Harpo to tape the finale of her show. It was a far more subdued affair than the party the night before. Just her and her audience, whether at home or in the studio, saying goodbye to each other. Over the course of 25 seasons, Oprah had produced more than 4,500 episodes of the Oprah Winfrey show, and she bowed out, still wearing the daytime crown. In its final season, her show averaged about 6 million viewers a day, making Oprah the most popular talk show host on air. After such an emotionally exhausting moment, many people would have taken a break. But Oprah didn't have time to pause and reflect. She had to immediately shift her focus from the Oprah Winfrey show to the Oprah Winfrey Network. Because the new channel had not gotten off to a good start. Oprah had tried to manage expectations, warning industry analysts that they should judge the channel's success over three to five years. But it was hard to ignore the fact that OWN debuted to only 500,000 viewers, a far cry from the tens of millions who had tuned into Oprah's talk show every week. Discovery had put over a quarter of a billion dollars into programming for own, and executives there had quickly grown concerned about the lack of return on that investment. Oprah herself couldn't help feeling disappointed, too. She had assumed that a far larger proportion of her audience would follow her to the network, where they could access Oprah's ever popular Live youe best life message 24 hours a day. But what Oprah had not realized was that her audience didn't want to consume her programming all day, every day. They had been happy for her to be on Channel 7 at 4pm for one hour every weekday. That had been a habit that they could build their life around. But when Oprah was on all the time, it was somehow harder for them to make any time. Getting her audience to move over to a paid cable channel was clearly going to be harder than Oprah had anticipated. But she rolled up her sleeves and got to work. Two months after wrapping the Oprah Winfrey show, she took on the role of OWN's chief executive. She was determined to turn the struggling network around and tried experimenting with various new shows and formats. She hosted interviews with philosophers and life coaches on the weekly Super Soul Sunday. And she helped launch a new talk show hosted by the actress and comedian Rosie O'Donnell. But nothing seemed to stick. After a year of disappointing ratings, the network was averaging just 264,000 viewers in prime time, and its annual losses were approaching half a billion dollars in modern money. Oprah didn't dare admit it to anyone else, but privately, she was panicking. After 25 years of being number one, she was not used to experiencing such failure. But she was not about to let OWN fall apart. So she continued to try to find innovative new ways to draw an audience. Soon, she decided on a radical departure for the channel. OWN would expand into scripted programming. In October 2012, Oprah signed the actor director Tyler Perry to develop several new television dramas for the channel. And just over six months later, his first primetime shows for OWN hit the air. The original sitcom Love Thy Neighbor and soap opera the Haves and the have Nots quickly won audiences of over three and a half million viewers. Viewers. Those ratings were as high as any recorded by the channel before. But crucially, they were also reliable. People kept tuning in to watch week after week. That steady performance was what advertisers were looking for. And by the end of 2013, the Oprah Winfrey Network was turning a profit. Oprah may have been able to breathe a sigh of relief, but now she faced another decision. During her decades on television, Oprah Winfrey had never positioned herself as a broadcaster solely for black women. She had sought a more universal appeal, and she hadn't envisioned her television network being any different. But without her necessarily intending it, OWN was resonating most strongly with black audiences, especially women in the important 25 to 54 age demographic. This presented Oprah with a choice. She could keep testing out new material to see if she could recapture the attention of a broad market, or she could lean into the niche market. She had found Oprah chose the latter, realizing that OWN had finally found its voice, and she was happy to let that voice ring out loud and clear. She had now not only conquered daytime talk, she had proven her critics wrong about her TV network as well. But it was still no time for complacency. Television was changing once again. On Demand Entertainment, streaming over the Internet, was about to upend the industry and present Oprah with one last world to conquer.

Stedman Graham (28:23)

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Oprah Winfrey (29:06)

It'S an early morning in April 2016 at Harpo Studios in Chicago, five years after the launch of the Oprah Winfrey Network. Oprah seals up a box of photos from her time on the Oprah Winfrey Show. She and her best friend, Gayle King are clearing out the final items from her production offices before demolition crews knock down the buildings. Oprah is folding Harpo Studios under the umbrella of the Oprah Winfrey Network and moving all production to Los Angeles. It's a momentous day. Gail holds up a fitted red suit. It's the outfit Oprah wore for the episode where she gave away the Pontiac cars. Oh gosh, you remember this one. I love that suit. I don't think you ever knew this, but I told your stylist before the show that you shouldn't have worn it. I didn't think it was fun enough. Oh, I knew. I just didn't listen. I knew that red suit was going to look perfect with all the cars with the red bows on top. And you were right. Gale shuffles through the box some more. She pulls out a plaid wool skirt that looks like a blanket with a fringe. Okay, but you have to admit, this was a terrible choice. Oh yes, we can leave that for the demolition. The two share a laugh before a reflective silence fills the space between them. Oprah rests her hands on the sealed box. Well, I guess it's really over. Yeah. You sad to see this building go? Yes and no. It's not the building that was special, was it? It's what we did in here. And that can't be torn down. Oprah picks up the box she's finishing packing and stands up. Okay it's time to go. We can leave the rest of this for the guys to clear away.

Stedman Graham (30:42)

You sure?

Oprah Winfrey (30:42)

We have a few more minutes. I'm sure. Gale nods and follows Oprah down the empty hallway of Harpo Studios, their footsteps echoing. You know Gail, they're bulldozing this place to make a new McDonald's headquarters. Well, that just seems wrong. I know. Oprah and Gail reach the front door. They take one last look down the long hallway. It's dim and quiet. Gail takes Oprah's hand in hers and gives it a small squeeze. Oprah breathes in deep and addresses the building that gave her so much. Harpo Productions. Thank you for these last 20 years. You were everything I could have asked for. With the closure of Harpo Studios in Chicago, Oprah Winfrey could focus her attention on the future. Because even though her days as a daily talk show host were now behind her, her career was far from over. She still had her television network to run and other business partnerships to pursue. So even as she entered her 60s, and many might have thought that Oprah was in her final act, America's Best Friend wasn't going anywhere just yet. By 2016, the Oprah Winfrey Network had found its place in the television hierarchy. Its revenues had stabilized and its shows had steadily increased their ratings. As CEO Oprah Winfrey had rescued the channel from the brink of disaster, and now it seems set for sustained success. So in December 2017, Oprah decided to take some money out of the business for the first time. She sold almost half her stake and owned to her partners at Discovery for the equivalent of around $100 million today. With that deal, Discovery became the majority owner of the network, while Oprah still retained 25.5% of the company and remained CEO, extending her contract with the channel through 2025. But then six months later, Oprah made a surprising announcement. She had agreed to a multi year deal with the technology giant Apple. And under the terms of that loop lucrative agreement, Oprah would produce original content for the company's new streaming platform, Apple tv. This was Oprah's first move into a new form of television. The entire entertainment industry was being transformed by the rise of streaming platforms like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. Huge companies like Apple and Disney were now hurrying to launch subscription services of their own and were willing to pay top dollar for best talent on the market. And even after more than 30 years on television, Oprah was still in that category. Apple TV launched on November 1, 2019, and among the first titles available to its subscribers was Oprah's Book Club. This program was a full length spinoff of the popular old segment from Oprah's daytime talk show. And it was soon followed by a second program, Oprah Talks COVID 19, released during the global pandemic. It was joined by the interview talk show, the Oprah Conversation, which featured high profile guests like Will Smith, Stevie Wonder, and Barack Obama. These interviews may not have won the kind of mass audience Oprah secured when she had the likes of Michael Jackson or Tom Cruise as guests on her talk show, but they were a sign that she was still a force to be reckoned with in the TV industry, that she could still attract the biggest names around, and that included royalty. In 2021, Oprah sat down for one of the most remarkable interviews of her career. Prince Harry and Meghan Markle candidly discussed their unhappy experiences with the British royal family and the events which led them to leave England and settle in California. Oprah knew the interview would spark controversy on both sides of the Atlantic and become ratings gold. So she quickly decided she wouldn't simply hand it over as part of her deals with Apple or her television network. Instead, she decided to license the rights to this interview to the highest bidder. CBS was the winner, paying Oprah's company, Harpo Productions, $7 million just to screen the interview. But it was a price worth paying for CBS. The primetime special drew in about 17 million viewers. In an age when audiences were fractured across dozens of cable channels, streaming services, and the Internet at large, persuading that many people to tune in at the same time was a triumph. Once again, Oprah Winfrey had proved that she had her finger on the pulse of the audience and still knew what America wanted. All her life, Oprah Winfrey had shown a gift for connecting with people. It had given her the confidence to roll the dice and bet on herself, knowing there were millions out there rooting for her.

Stedman Graham (35:16)

Her.

Oprah Winfrey (35:16)

Even when others doubted her. That bond with her audience had helped guide Oprah through all her personal insecurities, her legal battles and her creative missteps. She had come out the other side a billionaire, a fully fledged media tycoon who still seemed to know better than anyone else how to create must see appointment television. But whether it was interviewing Barack Obama or Prince Harry, whether it was discussing mad cow disease, were giving away hundreds of Pontiac cars. Audiences tuned into her shows for one reason above all, to catch up with someone who had become as familiar and as comforting as family. America's best friend, the one and only Oprah Winfrey. From Wondery. This is Episode four of Oprah's Empire for Business Movers. On the next episode, former Oprah Winfrey Network executive Scott Garner Turner discusses the factors behind Oprah's rise to fame and the evolution of television during her years on the air. If you like Business Movers, you can unlock exclusive episodes found nowhere else on Wondery plus and access new episodes early and ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a survey@wondery.com survey if you'd like to learn more about Oprah, we recommend a biography by Kitty Kelly, LifeLine Biography's Oprah Winfrey Global Media Leader by Kathryn Krohn and WBEZ Chicago's Making Oprah A Quick note about our dramatizations in most cases, we can't know everything that happened, but all our reenactments are based on historical research. Business Movers is hosted, edited and executive produced by me, Lindsay Graham for Airship Audio editing by Mohammad Shaziman Sound design by Gabriel Gould music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Alex Burns. Executive producers are William Simpson for airship and Erin O'Flaherty, Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louis for Wondering.

Lindsey Graham (37:23)

It'S me. The mean one, the green one, the Grinch. And I'm back for season two of Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. And this holiday season we're going big, baby. I'm talking A list, guests, B comedy and together with my crew, that's Max the Doc and Cindy Lou who.

Stedman Graham (37:40)

Hello everyone.

Lindsey Graham (37:41)

I'll try to clear my name once again from the latest accusations leveled against me. Turns out somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa and for some reason everybody thinks I did it. It's a real Whoville who done it. So join me for season two of Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast when it drops on November 25th. Follow tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App, Spotify or on Apple Podcasts.