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- [00:00]
Lindsey Graham
Want to get more from business movers? Subscribe to Wondery for early access to new episodes, ad free listening and exclusive.
- [00:08]
James Daunt
Content you can't find anywhere else.
- [00:09]
Lindsey Graham
Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. It's late March 2020. In the parking lot of a Barnes and Noble bookstore in Indianapolis, Indiana. A 22 year old man named Isaac gets out of his car and immediately fishes a face mask out of his pocket. He's here to start his latest shift as a sales associate at Barnes and Noble, but he knows today will be different. Barnes and Noble has just announced that the majority of its stores are shutting down due to the COVID 19 pandemic. Isaac has no idea what that means for his job. Entering the building, Isaac notices his manager waiting for him inside. And even from behind his own face mask, the manager looks tired. Morning, Isaac. Hey. Look, I'm just going to cut to the chase, so forgive me if I sound curt, but I have to let you go immediately. What? Yeah, I'm sorry, but I show up on time for every shift. I've never been written up. Look, Isaac, this isn't based on performance. It has nothing to do with you.
- [01:22]
James Daunt
Really.
- [01:22]
Lindsey Graham
It's a mandate from corporate. I'm sure you can understand why. Come on, no one knows how long this is all gonna last. They can't just start firing people. Yeah, they're saying stores might have to close indefinitely and we can't afford to pay sales associates when we don't have any sales going on in the building. Look, I'm really sorry. Isaac feels his eyes welling up with tears. This is embarrassing, but I'm begging you. I can't afford to lose this job. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I just got my own place. My mom isn't doing well. I don't know what will happen if she catches the virus. I'll take a pay cut. I'll come in and anything. You have to help me. Isaac, I'm really sorry. There's nothing I can do. For the record, you were always one of the best on our team. Well, if I really am one of the best, there's got to be something you can do for me. Isaac's manager falls silent for a moment. Your mom's sick? Yeah. All right, let's make a phone call. Really? Oh, thank you. Thank you. Now, look, I can't promise anything. To be honest, I think you're still going to get let go. But I'll try. Go home for now, though. I'll call you later. Isaac did not go home after leaving Barnes and Noble. Instead, he drove to the other side of the parking lot and waited there in his car. After what seemed like an eternity, his phone rang. It was his manager who said that Barnes and Noble's central office was allowing him to keep a small skeleton crew in order to rearrange the stores while they were closed. Isaac cried once more, this time out of sheer relief. He would keep his job and his new apartment for now at least, but his fate was tied to forces totally out of his control. Barnes and Noble was already struggling, but could they also survive A Pandemic Business Movers is Sponsored by Shipstation so let.
- [03:11]
James Daunt
Me tell you about my week. I am sick first week back from the holidays and for me even a little cold can lead to absolute chaos in our production schedule. Many of you may relate A little chaos can spell big trouble for businesses. But for those of you in charge of order fulfillment for an E commerce business, there's ShipStation. To keep your day to day remaining calm, save time and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks and finding the best rates among all the global carriers. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers switch to ShipStation today. Go to shipstation.com and use code Movers to sign up for your free trial. That's shipstation.com code movers business movers is sponsored by Grammarly. You only get one shot at a first impression, and if you're running a business that can mean all the difference between new client and no reply. Communicating exactly what you mean clearly, intelligently and with purpose can also stop a single bad email from turning into 20 and then a meeting on top. When every word your team writes is clear, concise and on brand, everything gets better. And teams that communicate better with Grammarly report 25% faster time to resolution for support tickets and 52% less time spent writing sales emails. All with enterprise grade privacy and security measures and seamless integration with the apps.
- [04:30]
Lindsey Graham
You use every day.
- [04:31]
James Daunt
Join over 70,000 teams and 30 million people who trust Grammarly to get results on the first try. Go to Grammarly.comenterprise to learn more Grammarly Enterprise Ready AI.
- [04:49]
Lindsey Graham
From Wonder E. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is Business Movers. In the spring of 2020, the COVID 19 pandemic spread across the globe and disrupted nearly every aspect of modern life. Thousands of people died every day, many more became sick and governments worldwide responded with unprecedented controls over the movement of their citizens. Businesses shuddered and uncertainty gripped the economy. For many companies that were struggling before the pandemic, COVID 19 would be the final blow. Many might have predicted that Barnes and Noble would be among that number. The largely brick and mortar retail chain had been struggling for years, fighting to stay relevant in the Internet age. Its former CEO, Leonard Riggio, had saved the company in the 1970s and turned it into a retail giant. But he had proven unable to adapt to the rise of online shopping. Stores had closed and revenues had dwindled as chief executive after chief executive tried and failed to turn the company around. But then, in the summer of 2019, Barnes and Noble was sold to new owners. Elliott Investment Management was a hedge fund specializing in corporate turnarounds. And to perform this rescue act, they looked for a leader. Across the Atlantic Ocean, the British bookseller James Daunt was not new to the challenges of running a struggling business. Before agreeing to join Barnes and Noble, he had already turned around the United Kingdom's largest bookstore chain, Waterstones. James had saved Waterstones by tearing up the old way of doing things, decentralizing and putting the focus back on what he thought mattered most, the books themselves. Now he planned to apply the same principles to Barnes and Noble. But James had barely gotten started when the COVID 19 pandemic hit. Barnes & Noble quickly closed more than 400 of its stores and furloughed or laid off thousands of employees. Like the streets outside its locations became eerily lifeless. But where others saw disaster, James Daunt saw a potential opportunity. The store closures could give him the time he needed to rethink not just Barnes and Noble's retail locations, but but its entire way of doing business. James had to get it right. Though. There would be no second chances for Barnes and Noble. The pandemic was either going to be a death knell or a lifeline. This is the third and final episode in our series on Barnes and Noble. Undaunted, it's a late afternoon in April 2020 in Hampstead, London. Two weeks into COVID 19 lockdowns. In his home office, 56 year old James Don prepares for a video call with an American publishing executive. James takes a sip of water from the glass beside him. He's about to break some news that may not prove popular and he can't help feeling a little nervous. James joins the meeting and the publishing executive waiting for him flashes a broad grin. James, good to see you. How are you? Keeping well so far? Yes, Thankfully, I'm just home like everyone else, driving my wife and kids crazy. I know all about that. You guys are in A pretty strict lockdown over there, right? I can't imagine this is how you expected your first months at Barnes and Noble to go. Not quite. I'm glad we can still meet like this, though. I guess the Internet's finally doing something for the book business, right? But yeah, I think it's important for us to maintain a good working relationship through this. You know, as soon as you guys are ready to reopen, we want to be there and ready for you, too. Well, that's what I wanted to discuss, in a way. Our relationship and how it might evolve from this point forward. I'm afraid you might not like it, though. Let me guess. You're talking about the co op deals. I am, yes. In a co op deal, publishers pay Barnes and Noble for featured shelving space in its stores. These deals rake in tens of millions of dollars for the company every year. But James doesn't like them. He was quick to leave similar deals at Waterstone when he got the chance, and now he wants to do the same thing at Barnes and Noble. The publishing executive smiles ruefully. Well, you know, even though I figured this might be coming, I was hoping you'd tell me you were taking a different approach in the U.S. and why's that? Well, the deals are just bigger over here. I figured for Barnes and Noble, they'd be revenue you wouldn't want to give up. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? These deals are actually costing us money. A lot of the so called best sellers we promote are not selling, and then they're returned to you unsold. That's a huge strain on our logistics and a huge cost we could do without. But candidly, even if they did make us money, I'd still think it was the right thing to do. I'd rather use all that shelving space for books our customers actually want to read. Yeah, but what if it turns out your stores make poor use of the space that whatever books they put in sell even worse? Well, if that happens, Barnes and Noble will go bankrupt and we'll all shut down. But that's the way we're heading anyway, without changes. That wouldn't be good for anyone, you included. No, it wouldn't. James has some leverage in this conversation because Barnes and Noble is one of the largest buyers of books in the country. It is in the publisher's interest for the company to survive. And both James and the executive know this. Well, what can I say, James? If you're telling us you don't want our money, who am I to tell you to take it. That's about it. And frankly, I think we have to put our trust in you that you know what you're doing. What you did with Waterstones was so impressive and, you know we're rooting for you, we really are. I appreciate that. I've got to ask, now what? Well, obviously we need to discuss the details further with legal departments and all the rest, but for now, I'm going to make several more calls like this one, and keep my fingers crossed that everyone else is as agreeable as you. James Daunt had four other meetings with large publishers lined up for that day, and all would get the same. No more co op deals and no more guaranteed shelf space. It was a major shift from the old way of doing things. But in all his negotiations, James had one key thing working in his favor. Barnes and Noble might have been ailing, but no one in the industry wanted it to die. During the COVID 19 lockdowns of spring 2020, James Daunt began implementing his strategy for turning around Barnes and Noble. As far as James was concerned, the route to success had to run through the bookseller stores. After all, they represented Barnes and Noble's one major advantage over Amazon, a physical retail presence. That didn't mean he ignored the company website. He knew that during the COVID lockdowns, it represented the only way Barnes and Noble could sell anything. So he quickly approved investment in the company's digital infrastructure and logistics systems. The overhauled website was more user friendly, with a wider selection of books available more quickly than ever before. But James had no intention of being drawn into another war with Amazon. Some of his predecessors as CEO had spent millions of dollars trying to beat the online retailer at its own game. That was not a mistake James intended to repeat. Barnes and Noble's website was more like a life support system, keeping the bookseller alive until the crisis passed and the real recovery could begin. But for that to happen, Barnes and Noble stores would have to change. James intended to use the same game plan that had been so successful with Waterstones in the United Kingdom, returning the company's focus to selling books and decentralizing responsibilities to individual stores. And to make these local reforms successful, James would need to make some changes at the national level first. After difficult negotiations, America's publishers all agreed to his changes to the co op deals. In reality, they didn't have much of a choice for the health of their own businesses. They needed Barnes and Noble to survive. They could only hope that in the long run, a healthier Barnes and Noble would be better for everyone's bottom line. But now that publishers no longer dictated what went on bookstore shelves, someone else would have to make those decisions. In the past, the answer would have been obvious. For decades, Barnes and Noble's head office in Manhattan had decided store and shelf layouts for the whole chain. But James strongly believed this one size fits all approach no longer worked. During the lockdown closures, he ordered store managers across the country to reorganize their stock in whatever way they felt would suit their local communities. And now that the co op deals were gone, it would be managers deciding what books went where. One store in Yonkers, New York, took the opportunity to move nutrition titles next to the cookbooks. Where previously they'd been on the opposite ends of the store, other stores chose to expand the variety of titles they held while cutting the number of duplicate copies. James was breaking the orthodoxy of big box retail, where consistency between stores had always been valued. And he didn't stop with how books were selected or shelved. As soon as he'd become the new CEO, James had known that he wanted to renovate Barnes and Noble stores. He had imagined the program as a rolling two year process in which groups of stores would close down for a few weeks at a time for refreshing refurbishment. But the pandemic accelerated those plans. With almost all Barnes and Noble stores already closed, James took the opportunity to move his program forward. During the first lockdown of 2020, over half of the chain's 614 locations were given a fresh new look. Barnes and Noble's store interiors had long been recognizable by their green carpets and matching green striped walls. But in recent years, some stores have been neglected and many of those carpets were threadbare and the walls dingy. But when store managers came to rip out the old carpets and strip the walls bare, James did not insist on similar replacements or even demand a certain style. What made sense for each specific location mattered more to him than a consistent company wide brand. But James didn't give managers an entirely blank slate. He provided guidance to ensure changes aligned with his broader vision for Barnes and Noble. Each store was provided with a large dumpster, and he encouraged them to remove non book merchandise and throw away bulky displays to make stores feel more spacious. He also personally reviewed the renovations in key stores, offering feedback and suggestions on each manager's proposals. His goal throughout was to find a middle ground, creating spaces that felt neither dictated by corporate policies nor entirely detached from the rest of the chain. Store managers reveled in this newfound freedom, but the changes James was making were less welcome. To others at Barnes and Knoll. As James continued to decentralize decision making to individual stores, some positions at the head office in Manhattan became redundant. He had to make the difficult decision to cut half of the company's corporate positions. Around 125 people lost their jobs. And that was not the only reorganization of the company's human resources. To cut costs, Barnes and Noble had previously replaced most of its full time store employees with less experienced part time workers. But James preferred his bookstores to be staffed with more knowledgeable booksellers. So Barnes and Noble also laid off about 5,000 part time employees in favor of recruiting smaller full time teams. By the summer of 2020, those new teams were ready to welcome customers back to their new look stores. And as the early lockdowns eased, Barnes and Noble began reopening. James Daunt's strategy was about to be put to the test, and individual store managers were the ones who would make or break the company. Now the freedom James had given them came with higher expectations. As he put it, the changes he'd made were not a free pass to incompetence. He expected managers to lead the turnaround from their stores, and James told them that they would all be judged on the results. Luckily for the managers and James, 2020 was turning out to be a boom year for the book industry. Stuck at home during lockdown, some customers found they suddenly had far more time to read, While others rediscovered the joy of books for the first time in years. As a result, book sales surged nationwide, rising 11% from the previous year. Genres like manga and graphic novels became especially popular, with sales in those categories growing by almost 500%. Meanwhile, the changes James had made to the co op deals quickly began to have the desired effect. Combined with the new freedom he granted managers over stock control, these reforms transformed Barnes and Noble's returns rate. Before the pandemic, the company was sending nearly 30% of its inventory back to publishers unsold. But once the co op deals were fully phased out, that figure dropped to just 7%. The reduction in unsold stock saved the company millions of dollars in shipping and logistics costs and freed up shelf space for more books that better matched customer demand. So by the end of 2020, it seemed that James was beginning to turn Barnes and Noble around. Customers were starting to return, and best selling books like former president Barack Obama's memoir A Promised Land were driving a return to profitability, Something Barnes and Noble had not achieved in a decade. The positive Results continued through 2021, with total sales up 3% and book sales up 14% compared with the pre pandemic year of 2019. So as the world began to hope that the worst of COVID 19 had passed, it seemed that James Dot had done it again. Through his bold decision making and the clear vision he'd had for the future of the company, Barnes and Noble had survived. But survival wasn't enough for Barnes and Noble took prove it was back for good. It needed to make a statement. Business Movers is sponsored by Attentive. Imagine for a moment if you got a message from your favorite brand and it's so specific and personalized it feels like it was created just for you. Well, chances are if you got such a message, they're using Attentive, the SMS and email marketing platform designed to help.
- [18:39]
James Daunt
Brands build and connect with their ideal audience. Attentive helps marketers create unique messages for.
- [18:45]
Lindsey Graham
Every subscriber, transforming the consumer shopping experience and maximizing marketing performance. It works like this.
- [18:52]
James Daunt
Attentive's AI learns what subscribers actually want based on their real time interactions with your brand.
- [18:59]
Lindsey Graham
And that means it customizes the content.
- [19:01]
James Daunt
Tone and even timing of every message.
- [19:03]
Lindsey Graham
So they always resonate.
- [19:05]
James Daunt
If you're ready to take your customers on a journey created just for them.
- [19:08]
Lindsey Graham
Visit attentive.com businessmovers to learn more.
- [19:13]
Lisa Gary
On January 5, 2024, an Alaska Airlines door plug tore away mid flight, leaving a gaping hole in the side of a plane that carried 171passengers. This heart stopping incident was just the latest in a string of crises surrounding the aviation manufacturing giant Boeing. In the past decade, Boeing has been involved in a series of damning scandals and deadly crashes that have chipped away at its once sterling reputation. At the center of it all, the 737 Max. The latest season of Business wars explores how Boeing, once the gold standard of aviation engineering, descended into a nightmare of safety concerns and public mistrust. The decisions, denials and devastating consequences bringing the titan to its knees. And what, if anything, can save the company's reputation now? Follow Business wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge business the Unraveling of Boeing early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus.
- [20:23]
Lindsey Graham
It's the summer of 2022 at an open air mall in Dedham, a town just south of Boston, Massachusetts. Three years after James Daunt join Barnes and Noble, James waits outside a boarded up construction site. A new Barnes and Noble store is being installed in an existing retail location and James has come to check on progress. He smiles as the store's future manager Lisa Gary emerges from the inside wearing a hard hat above her smart business suit. Mr. Daunt, welcome to Dedham Barnes and Noble. Lisa.
- [20:53]
James Daunt
Hi.
- [20:53]
Lindsey Graham
Thank you so much. It's great to be here. It's a little chaotic inside, but we're getting there now. You better put this on, though. She hands James a hard hat. He puts it on as Lisa gestures for him to follow her. Inside. The store is a flurry of activity, but the shape of this new Barnes and Noble is already becoming clear. Lisa claps her hands to get the work crew's attention. Hey, guys, can you take five minutes? Five minutes. Thank you. Thank you. James watches as the crew files out before turning to Lisa. But this is a great space, isn't it? It really is. And they didn't make the most of it at all. On the wall at the far end is a faint, shadowy mark, a remnant of the previous occupant's logo. The words Amazon Books can just be made out. Lisa points around the room. They had a huge Kindle display here and racks of echoes over here. Hardly any room for the books. I saw the photos. The place looked more like a drugstore than a bookshop. I hear we've lined up some press for you for the opening. There's going to be extra interest in this one, given the location's history. Yeah, I've heard. You have any tips? I'm not really used to giving interviews. Oh, goodness. I'm no expert either, though I've done enough of them by now. Reporters, they tend to be big readers, at least, so that helps. I swear, half of them are frustrated novelists, so whoever it is will likely be on your side, so don't fear a grilling. What I would avoid, though, is any temptation to insult sold to Amazon. That might be a little hard. I know, I know. Maybe a little light gloating is okay. But look, a lot of our customers use Amazon, and we're not going to make any more money by making them feel bad about that. My attitude, and this is what I say to reporters when they ask, is that the more books there are in people's hands, the better it is for us. If Amazon is helping to create more readers, then that means more potential customers for Barnes and Noble. Yeah, that makes sense. We just have to show absolute belief in what we're doing, that it has value, regardless of whatever it is Amazon cooks up next. Bookshops have been around for a very long time, and it's not just because people want to pick up the latest Stephen King novel at the cheapest possible price, is it? No, it's because people like you, people who can say to a customer, hey, I see you like Stephen King. Well, what about these other books? You know, really, as far as I'm concerned, Barnes and Noble will just be the name outside. In reality, this will be your store. Well, you are most welcome to stop by my store anytime. In the fall of 2022, Barnes & Noble opened two new stores in spaces previously occupied by Amazon. In a press release, company CEO James dawn said the openings represented an exciting sea change in the fortunes of bookstores. With booming sales of books being led by real books being bought in real bookstores. James had already proven that Barnes and Noble still had a place in the market. Now he wanted to go one step further and show that he could build better bookstores than even his fiercest competitor. Amazon's venture into physical bookstores had begun in 2015. In November that year, the first Amazon Books opened at the University Village Shopping Mall mall in Seattle. Initially, the stores generated excitement and curiosity in the press, where they were touted as a bold move into a space Amazon had previously disrupted. The company stated its aim was to combine online pricing with traditional book shopping to create a new type of retail experience. Over the next seven years, Amazon Books expanded until it had 24 locations across America, making it one of the largest bookstore chains in the country. But despite Amazon's multimillion dollar investment in this new venture, customers never embraced the stores. The atmosphere in Amazon Books was criticized as blandly corporate and clinical. And for a bookstore, they seemed most interested in selling tech products. In almost every store, there were large displays dedicated to Kindles, Echo smart speakers and Amazon Fire devices. That meant less room for books. The average Amazon location stocked fewer than 5,000, less than a quarter of the inventory found in a typical Barnes and Noble store. And what books the Amazon stores did stock were heavily weighted to the latest bestsellers, to high margin titles, and to those with top ratings from consumers on the Amazon website. That resulted in an in store selection that managed to be both limited and unfocused at the same time. Any customers interested in the works of lesser known authors or those hoping to discover something new, were often left disappointed. So in the spring of 2022, after several years of poor results, Amazon announced that its bookstores would be closing permanently. Few mourned their departure. But for Barnes and Noble CEO James Dunn, the demise of Amazon Books was an irresistible opportunity. He quickly assessed the store locations that were closing and then quickly signed deals for Barnes and Noble to take on two of them. One was in the town of D. Dedham, just to the south of Boston, and the other was in Linfield, just to the north. They were both popular locations that fitted with James existing expansion plans for the company. But he wasn't shy about embracing the potent symbolism of the move either. Barnes and Noble had once epitomized the struggle of traditional retail in the Internet age, but here was a brick and mortar store taking over where the E commerce juggernaut Amazon had failed. James had always believed that successful bookstores needed to foster a sense of discovery and connection. Those were qualities that could only be achieved through human expertise and community engagement, not an online algorithm. Barnes and Noble's two newest stores in Massachusetts would put that belief to the test. But the former Amazon locations were just part of a wider expansion for a resurgent Barnes and Noble. Between 2010 and 2019, the company had opened only 15 new stores as it stumbled in its response to Amazon. But having successfully steered the company back from the brink of collapse, James was set to open 23 new locations in 2022 alone, with even more planned for the following year. And these new stores would not be the familiar, soulless big box locations of the past. Instead, Barnes and Noble planned to open in smaller units, many of them in either established shopping mall malls or downtown locations. These more compact shops would be far cheaper to acquire, staff and run than the book superstores of the 1990s. But James believed that if they were curated and managed properly, they could be just as profitable. Many customers and industry insiders praised this new approach and were glad to see Barnes and Noble recovering. In the press, James was hailed as the savior of traditional bookselling in the United States. And as Barnes and Noble looked ahead to 2024, its success challenged the notion that physical bookstores and physical books were doomed, or that reading itself was dying out as an American pastime. But as Barnes and Noble continued to expand, it reignited an old debate. For decades, most independent booksellers had viewed the chain as little more than a bully. Back in its 1990s heyday, under Leonard Riggio, Barnes and Noble had been widely seen as a corporate monolith, prioritizing growth above all else and sucking the life out of the rest of the bookselling ecosystem. Some independents now feared that a reinvigorated Barnes and Noble will go back to its old ways. But James Daunt had started his bookselling career in the independent sector with his own store in London. He hated the idea of being thought of a threat to such businesses now. So instead, he hoped that Barnes and Noble could play a different role in the bookselling world in the future. Not an aggressor menacing smaller stores, but as a foundation the rest of the industry could rely on. After all, in many parts of America, Barnes and Noble was the only traditional bookstore left. If it disappeared as well, the fear in the industry was that the national distribution of physical books might wither away entirely. But James hopes that Barnes and Noble could put its old reputation behind it would soon be put to the test. As the chain grew, new opportunities would arise for James to acquire other smaller booksellers. In the past, this was the kind of business tactic that had turned people against former Barnes and Noble chairman Leonard Riggio. To avoid the same fate, James would need to find a way to balance two roles that were equally important to him. Could he be the CEO of the world's largest bookseller chain and also a champion of independent stores?
- [29:13]
Dan Harris
Hello, it's Dan Harris from the 10% Happier podcast. Is the whole New Year New you thing getting a little overwhelming? Wondery's New Year New Mindset collection has the essentials to help you have your best year yet and to do it simply and sanely. From 10% happier and daily stoic for personal growth to unruffled for parenting wisdom, we've got you covered. Boost your creativity with the best idea yet. Get inspired by Baby this is Keke Palmer or dive deep with Armchair Expert. Listen to New Year New Mindset right now on the Wondery App.
- [29:44]
James Daunt
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Christa McAuliffe into space aboard the space shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes, and in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondry. You can join Wondery in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
- [30:50]
Lindsey Graham
It's late summer 2024 at the Tattered Cover Bookstore in Denver, Colorado. Almost five years after James Daunt began his turnaround at Barnes and Noble, James is attending A party Barnes and Noble has just acquired acquired a small chain of six bookstores in Colorado, and it's throwing a champagne reception at the flagship location to celebrate. Clutching a glass, James smiles encouragingly as a young man in his 20s breaks away from the crowd and timidly steps over to greet him. Mr. Dawn, do you have a second? Of course. And please call me James. What's your name? Brett Sable, sir. I'm an employee here. Nice to meet you, Brett. The two men shake hands. How long have you worked here? Three years now. You like it then, I hope. I love it, sir. I've always been a big reader. So this is a dream job. Not that I spend my day reading. I wouldn't do that. Rhett flushes with embarrassment, but James just smiles. I understand completely, and it's wonderful to hear. I've always said it takes a certain type of person to make a career out of this business. Loving books goes a long way. You know, I used to come here as a kid. It's a local institution, and that's part of the reason we wanted to come on board. Well, Mr. Don, can I be honest with you about that? Please do. I'm a little worried. This place is so beloved in the community. It's iconic, it's been around forever. And I think the reason people love us is because we're independent, because we're unique. And you don't want that to change? No. That's good, because neither do I. But how are we to know this isn't going to be a classic case of a big corporation gobbling up the little guy? Well, if I were in your shoes, I would imagine I'd feel the same way. But can I do my best to reassure you? Please. Firstly, the store will remain the tattered cover. Nothing about the interior or the exterior of the store or the way it's run is going to change on my say so. You'll continue to be just as unique and independent as you always have been since, what, 1971? 1971. That's right. Barnes and Noble will simply be the parent company, which means you will have access to our logistics, our resources, sources, our support as you continue your work serving your community. Well, what about the jobs? They want to say anything, but I know some folks are worried. Well, that's really something for managers here to decide, but I don't see any reason why your job would be threatened. The fact that you've been here three years speaks volumes, and you're one of the few people who've been brave enough to Come up and say hello to me so I can tell you must care a great deal about your customers and the store. Well, I really do, sir. So from what I've learned in the business of bookselling, you're going to be just fine. You'll probably manage the store someday, so I hope I put your mind at rest a little. I don't like the idea of being thought of as a corporate creature at heart. I still think of myself as an independent bookseller. I just happen to be one who runs the largest bookstore chain in the world. Prior to its acquisition by Barnes and Noble in 2024, the tattered cover bookstore chain had filed for bankruptcy under chapter 11. Its beloved locations in Colorado appeared in danger of closing. But James Daunt had been able to flip the script in more ways than one. In the past, Barnes and Noble had gained a reputation for putting independent bookstores out of business. Now it was saving them. By the summer of 2024, James Daunt had added 58 new stores to the Barnes and Noble portfolio. It marked the company's most significant expansion since 2009 and underscored the remarkable turnaround the company had achieved under James leadership. Just five years earlier, Barnes and Noble had teetered on the edge of collapse. It had seemed certain that the chain was about to join the likes of Borders and Toys R Us in the ranks of once dominant stores that had disappeared from the American retail scene. But now it appeared that there was still life in the world's largest bookstore store chain. Barnes and Noble's resurgence was a story of adaptation and reinvention in the face of an unfriendly business landscape. And unlike many in the book industry, James dawn did not publicly denounce Amazon as the enemy. There was no doubt in his mind that it had changed the world. But complaining about it wouldn't make things go back to the way they were. But if he didn't criticize the Internet giant, he didn't seek to emulate it either. Under James leadership, Barnes and Noble stopped chasing Amazon into the world of E readers and tech devices. Instead, James had focused on the strengths real bookstores possessed that online shopping could never match personalized service, a sense of community, the tactile joy of browsing, stacks of books, and the smell of freshly printed pages. James firmly believed that bookstores were unique places where people could connect with stories, ideas, and one another. By 2024, it was clear that there were plenty of people out there in America who agreed with James. The turnaround at Barnes and Noble was faster and more impressive than perhaps even James himself had thought possible. But while one exciting new chapter in Barnes and Noble's story was just beginning, another had to come to an end. In August 2024, former chairman of the bookstore chain Leonard Riggio died at the age of 83. Leonard had transformed born Barnes and Noble, from a single location in Manhattan to a national retail giant. And while he had proved unable to adjust to the rise of Amazon, his influence on the book industry in 20th century America was impossible to ignore. He had made it his mission to bring books to the masses, and he had succeeded. Now it fell to his successor, James dawn, to lead Barnes and Noble on and redefine it for the 21st century. At the beginning of 2025, the company stood as America's last remaining national bookstore chain at a time when so many other traditional retailers had fallen by the wayside. James Daunt believed that he had proven that bookstores were not a relic of the retail past. They were a vital part of its present, and they would still be a feature of America's malls and main streets long into the future. From Wondery, this is episode three of Savings Barnes and Noble for Business Movers. On the next episode, publishing executive and industry commentator Jane Friedman discusses Barnes and Noble's turnaround in the state of bookselling in America. Now, if you like business movers, you.
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James Daunt
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- [36:59]
Lindsey Graham
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- [37:02]
James Daunt
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Lindsey Graham
If you'd like to learn more about Barnes and Noble's history, we recommend the Noble Legacy by Betty Noble Turner and the Late Age of Print by Ted Streepus. A quick note about our dramatizations in most cases, we can't know everything that happened, but all our reenactments are based on historical research. Business Movers is hosted, edited and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Ayersch Audio editing by Mohamed Shazib sound design by Molly Bach music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Cody Hofmachle. Executive producers are William Simpson for airship and Aaron O'Flaherty, Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marcia Louie for Wondery.
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Cassidy Depechel
I'm Cassidy Depechel, the host of Wondery's podcast, Against the Odds. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who live to tell the tale. In our newest season, we go back to October 19, 1984, when a small plane carrying 10 people crashes in the frigid wilderness of northern Alberta, Canada. Four men survive a pilot, a politician, a cop, and an imprisoned man. While the survivors fight to stay alive, rescuers battle brutal weather in a desperate race to save them before it's too late. And in this week's episode, I talk with Amazon Books editor Al Woodworth about her top recommendations for books about survival. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts, and dive deeper into thrilling stories of resilience and survival with curated book recommendations from the Amazon book editors at www.Amazon.com atobooks.