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[00:00]
A
I don't really believe in success. We get to the top of a mountain and then you gotta look across and it looks beautiful, but then you'll see another mountain that's bigger. You could be a failure for 60 years. In the 61st year, you create the greatest thing. Once you die, that is when success factors in.
[00:14]
B
His mother talked him into a tryout he didn't want to take, and 14 years later he became the CFL's all time receptions leader with over 1,000 catches, a two time Grey cup champion and a first ballot hall of Famer.
[00:27]
A
I had success from having other great teammates and great coaches willing to take the bullets for the rest of the people in the room and understanding how to add value to more than just yourself.
[00:36]
B
Now, he's taken that same mindset and built a career around mentorship, media and business because he believes athletes should own their story, their content and their future.
[00:45]
A
We want to put people in that position where it's not a scary thing when your career is over and you're okay to walk away and you're not just playing because you need another paycheck.
[00:52]
B
What was your biggest failure as an athlete and how did that shape how you handle failure in business?
[00:57]
A
Man. I haven't really talked about this publicly, but
[01:03]
B
my next guest almost turned down professional football. His mother talked him into a tryout he didn't want to take, and 14 years later he became the CFL's all time receptions leader with over a thousand catches, a two time Gray cup champion and a first ballot hall of Famer. Now he's taken that same mindset and built a career around mentorship, media and business because he believes athletes should own their story, their content, and their future. Nick Lewis, welcome to business. Mvp.
[01:32]
A
And it's so good to be here. Thank you for the invite and thanks for sharing your audience.
[01:36]
B
Thank you. So first, I want to start by saying I read that you grew up in Jacksboro, Texas. Is that right?
[01:43]
A
Yes. Small town Texas.
[01:46]
B
Okay. Yeah. So I wouldn't say I'm a Texan quite yet, but I've been in Austin for about five years now, so it's
[01:52]
A
an amazing place, isn't it? It's grown a lot.
[01:54]
B
It's grown a lot. It's grown a lot. Yeah, it's changing all the time here, I feel like. Yes. So just want to start off with your athletic career. So you played Division 2 college football at Southern Arkansas and I'm guessing after college you thought your playing days were done. I read that your mom talked you into the arena football tryout and you didn't even want to go. So take me back to that moment. What was she seeing in you that you couldn't see in yourself?
[02:17]
A
Well, it was a whirlwind. Coming out of high school, I really wanted to play basketball and I was actually a D2 walk on. So I walked on to Southern Arkansas. So my senior year after the game, you're shaking hands with people and they're like looking forward to seeing you on TV next year. And that was the first time I thought I could play pro football. And then I take off the spring semester there to go train to get ready for the NFL. I don't get drafted, I don't get picked up as a free agent. And just the mental letdown of not being chosen and not getting an opportunity when for so long I didn't believe it. And then I started to believe it and then it didn't happen. And my agent called me two days after the draft and says, hey, we have a workout for you for the Arkansas Twisters. And I'm thinking I just went from potentially going to the NFL and getting drafted to going to play arena football for $200 a week. And at that point it was kind of like, man, I don't know if I have it in myself to want to go do this. And my mom just said, hey son, you're going to play for a long time. I'm already claiming it and you need to go to the workout. And it was good because when I went to the workout, the former head coach there the year before had just became the offensive coordinator for the Calgary Stampeders and his former offensive coordinator was now the head coach and he was a former NFL receiver. And once I worked out for that team, he really liked me. And I believe that was a part of me getting the opportunity to go to Calgary.
[03:49]
B
You're the CFL's all time receptions leader at 5 foot 10, 240 pounds. Not exactly built like the typical receiver. Right. So how did your size and being, I guess, underestimated become your greatest advantage?
[04:03]
A
Well, the, the running joke I used to tell people was I had a thousand yards at ten different weight classes. I actually went into the CFL at 197, 200 pounds. Unfortunately, my brother's 6 4, my dad's 6 2. I just didn't grow. But we all look just alike as far as how our shoulders and back look. And once I turned 25, I really started to develop out. It was good. I just changed my game over year after year and just being able to Go in and try to dominate the opposition. I guess the best part, I wasn't a speed guy. Even at a 4, 5, 4 40, and there's guys running four threes and four fours. I wasn't ever that. So it never really hurt me to put on a little bit more weight and to develop in the way I did.
[04:47]
B
I love that. So what was your biggest failure as an athlete and how did that shape how you handle failure in business?
[04:54]
A
Man, I. I think there's so many failures. The. The. One of the hardest things I ever took was losing the Western final in 2010. It was the best team I'd ever been a part of. We were averaging 37 points a game. We were dominating everybody. And then to go out and lose that game, it was really a defeating moment, you know, but there's so many failures in life that we go through. And in sports, we prepare for a moment or we prepare for that week, we get the results and we're able to retool and go back at it. And I think that sometimes people get into this failure mindset and it destroys them for months or years because of something really bad happening. And with sports, you're able to refocus, put together a new game plan and turn it around and go back at
[05:43]
B
it very quickly so that. So when you do that in business, you kind of kept that same approach. Then I'm assuming that's it.
[05:49]
A
That's it. You know, it's always like one step forward. I take everything that people say, and when they tell me their feedback, I take it to heart what that feedback is, and then I analyze it. I mean, I don't think everybody understands fully what we're doing and how we're doing it, so. But I give them the credit to say, you know what, you've been in business or you've done this or you've accomplished this. I'm going to take what you're saying, I'm going to analyze and apply it. And maybe there's something in there. Maybe it's one thing. Maybe it's a lot of things that I could take and say, okay, maybe this could be a little bit stronger and we're able to go in and retool it and just improve our business plan.
[06:25]
B
Yeah, and I think you actually just said something even, like, really important that was secondary there, but feedback.
[06:29]
A
Right.
[06:30]
B
We're always in business talking about how important feedback is. And a lot of people, you know, are afraid to ask for feedback. Right. They're afraid of that criticism, even if it's constructive. And one of the things, you know, we talk about a lot in the business world is just you always gotta be seeking feedback because if you're not, you're not continually growing, improving, you're just. You're surrounding yourself with yes men. And that's not. You're not gonna grow and learn. Right? So I love that you brought up feedback. So I read that you said you, you, you look at it like when you were in the cfl that you're an entertainer and so that you understood early that fans pay to see a show. And, you know, a lot of people don't think of it like that. Right. So when did that mindset shift from football to business for you?
[07:13]
A
It was really my cousin, Tacoma Fontaine, he played arena football and for eight years. And growing up, he's five years older than me. So watching him play professional sports, see, now he engaged the kids and just the people in the arena, and I understood that we have to entertain one. And if I do a good job entertaining, that means we have a pretty good chance of winning a game. So it wasn't just focused on the game, is focused on creating an atmosphere and an opportunity to really make people want to be there to see it. Right. And in business, it's the same thing is like, I love watching people experience something for the first time, right? Whether it's me doing something, one of my friends, my college best friend coming up to Canada for the first time, my family coming to Canada for the first time. It's really cool for me to see those experiences and I want to execute that more. And we're calling them Dreamtrips and ao, where we're going to execute fans, sports dreamtrips and allow them to experience these things in real time, things they never thought they would be able to experience. Because it's just so special how we can use these experiences and to enhance our lives. And then I believe more people should win their championship. Right. And that validates you, right? Once you win a championship, it's like, okay, well, it was worth going through the failure. It was worth going through everything it took to get here. And that gives it so much more value. And I think in life, we. People have to start seeing what is their championship like, what is it that allows them to have the success that they are able to build on and take that into the next thing.
[08:45]
B
Yeah, I love that. That's. That's a really good takeaway and to kind of go further into that. You know, you said your most meaningful season wasn't your championship year, though. You've said it was Montreal where you face adversity. You earned the captaincy for the first time at age 34. So what did that chapter teach you about leadership?
[09:05]
A
Man? It's a. Leadership is a constant journey, and every team, there's new players, new dynamics, possibly new coaches. So figuring it out and willing to take the bullets for the rest of the people in the room and understanding how to add value to more than just yourself. Right. So how can I come into a room with young guys and be able to feed into them, pour into them that allows them to be a little bit better? How can I help the veterans and the new players accommodate to what we're doing and what's the real role? And then it's always setting the tone. Right. No matter if it's practice or in the game, you got to go out and set the tone on a daily basis, because when it goes bad, everybody's going to look at you, and you have to be strong enough to withstand that and still show people that we still have the ability to go out and get it done.
[09:54]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think that applies directly to business. Everything you just said. Right. So. And then that's just the client and the company.
[10:01]
A
That's it. I remember having one conversation, I won't say his name. Him and the quarterback were getting into it a lot, and he would get frustrated, really frustrated when he didn't get the ball. And I've been there before, and I just told him before a game, I said, hey, if you need to yell and scream or cuss, come yell, cuss me out. Scream at me. Don't do it to the quarterback. You're both young. It's not going to be good, and we can't win like that. But if you got to say something, just come say it to me, and then we'll refocus, and then we'll go back out there and get the job done. And, you know, that's part of being a leader, is being able to say, hey, I understand that this is not a healthy thing and it can't continue to go on. But you can't stop people from being themselves either. Right. I can't go to him and say, hey, don't do that again, because it's probably going to happen again. You know, I'm just trying to deflect it in a way that it's positive for everybody and he can get out what he needs to get out and then refocus and go back and do what he's supposed to do.
[11:02]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I think that applies to business, too, just because it's kind of like the concept of a thought partner. Like, sometimes people just need somebody to listen, right. And to vet and to vent. And, you know, it's really important in all aspects of life, business, athletics, everywhere, just to have somebody that you can. You can vent to that is just going to be a listener, right? So whether you're. And. And I, I love being on the other side of that because it's like you can just practice your. Your listening skills, right? You don't even have to contribute all that much, and that sometimes that's just what people need. So, you know, in addition to everything you just said about being a leader, I think it's also highlights. Just everybody needs a thought partner. So I love that You've built a career around three things. Mentorship, business, media, and you're running AO Sports tv. You host the Lulu Logic podcast, you speak on stages, and you mentor young athletes. So how did all those pieces connect? And what's the bigger vision, man?
[11:56]
A
Sometimes it's like God puts us in a position to really live out our journey and help us find our real purpose and passion where sports really drives so much of my life. And one of the things I really took away from my career was I was a great teammate, and I had success from having other great teammates and great coaches. So I wanted to create a company that resembled the same thing because I looked at a lot of my former teammates, and they go into life, they've been a teammate since they were four or five years old, and now they're in life and they have co workers. Co workers do not show up the same way. Teammates show up for you right when you're in life. And now it's like, okay, well, I'm struggling because I was able to do this, this, and this really well, but my teammates were able to fill in the gaps. And now whether they're in media and they know what they want to talk about, they don't know how to do the design set. They don't know how to do the branding or the marketing. They don't know the algorithms, and they don't. So there's so many pieces that they're trying to figure out in real time, and it's changing every day, every week and, and. And every month. So I really wanted to create a company that resembled my life. What did I miss out on when I was a young athlete? I wish I had more access to financial literacy. I wish I had more access to. To mentorship. I Wish I had more access to just a lot of these things and being able to provide that now and, and connect people that are already doing that, it's like, look, you're great at what you do. You can do it by yourself if you want to, but why don't you join our team, be a part of our ecosystem, and let's do it together. And that's essentially what aosports is. It's businesses. It's from marketing, branding, production, support, it's transition, character building, financial literacy, all these different companies that are already doing it, just coming into our ecosystem. And then we empower the athlete to really build a brand and sustain that brand. Right. In a way that we pay it is stable and scalable.
[13:53]
B
Got it. And so they still own their content. Right. And they profit from their work. Because I know that's something that's really big for you.
[13:58]
A
100% ownership is big for me. And we lease their content for a year. So everything that's behind the paywall is leased content from the creator for a year. Everything in front of the paywall, you can put it on any platform, but it's still part of our al sports ecosystem for the free members on our platform as well.
[14:19]
B
Okay, I love that. And so I guess tell me a little more about that. Like, why does that matter? And what are athletes and entrepreneurs getting wrong about their own brand right now?
[14:27]
A
I think a lot of athletes don't understand their brand. It's kind of like they, if you ask them what their brand is, it's kind of like, okay, I don't know what my brand is. I know what I want to accomplish. I know what I want to talk about. I know I want Nike to sponsor me, but they don't know how to get those steps in order to get there. And for us, it's about how do we help you put those things in place and work backwards. Right? What is the goal? And then let's set the habits to create the success and, and reach our goals. And so for us, it's like, how do we put people in a place that they could just be their best? And, and really, that's what aosports is. It's. It's a. Will be a mobile app, will be a TV app. We sign athletes and creators, sports content creators, to contracts and then we help them. We find out where do you need support, and we're able to fill in the gaps. And the cool part about us is like, I know we're going to deal with agents, so we actually pay the agents so it doesn't come out of the athletes fee or revenue share. Right. So agents flip houses, right. Every three, you know, average careers every three years. So now when we talk to agencies, they love it because they're like, okay, well now I can actually get paid off this athlete for the next 20, 30 years. Not just while they're relevant in their sport as a pro now, the agent is actually more involved in the athlete's long term viability because some of the bigger agencies, they do everything, they're just like, hey, all we need is distribution and monetization from you. Great, that's better for us, you know, and we can focus our attention on the rest of the athletes that we have in our stable.
[16:07]
B
Yeah. And do you think it's that? So kind of back to what I was asking, like, do you think people get what they get wrong? Is that they really haven't like really thought through and identified what their brand actually is. Like you said, they kind of know where they want to go ultimately or they know like they've had this career, but they're not defining what the brand is. So if you don't do that, then you just kind of get lost in the shuffle of either just saying yes to everything or picking the wrong things. Right. Is that accurate?
[16:33]
A
You hit it on the head. Right. And even when looking like 68% of people are making less than $1,000 a month. Right. So they're pretty much saying yes to any opportunity just to make money or you know, gift cards or whatever the case is. They're not in a position to say, hey, I can really build a brand that's going to increase my nil opportunity from just who I am on social media and the ability to connect to more people through storytelling. And then that's what we want to create. So it's a more stable situation. And it doesn't just end when if you don't go pro. Right. You still have value. Because we look at the best brands like Michael Jordan and what Magic Johnson has done in the space and the ownership that they have now, they've made more money off the field and off the court than they did ever plan. So we want to put people in that position where it's not a scary thing when your career is over and you're okay to walk away and you're not just playing because you need another paycheck.
[17:30]
B
Yeah, I love that. I've talked to a lot of athletes on this show, obviously, and it's amazing how many of them really think through the what's after piece, you know, and I think that must be, you know, at the forefront of a lot of athletes minds. You retire at such a young age in the scheme of it all. So there is this, you know, whole what's next, you know, what's the next chapter? So I love that so many people have recognized that and are focusing on that. It's amazing. So what's the hardest business decision you've had to make and how do you feel like your football background shaped how you handled it?
[17:59]
A
I haven't really talked about this publicly, but I feel like it's a great opportunity.
[18:04]
B
Love it.
[18:05]
A
We were engaged, you know, as a, as an entrepreneur, you're always looking for money. And we had a verbal agreement with a very powerful group and they were going to give us so much power to amplify the business and do all these things. And we verbally agreed on an amount that I was going to give up, an equity. And then right before we did all the due diligence that they asked for, they were on board 100% and then they asked for 47% of the company right before we signed contracts. And I said no. So I had to walk away from that deal completely. And I felt like they put us in that situation because they just felt like, what other option do you have? Right.
[18:47]
B
And you've put all this time into it, right? Yeah.
[18:49]
A
At that point I knew I didn't want that to be my teammate. Right. And at the end of the day, where it could have advanced us, it could have gave us so many more opportunities, I'm willing to bet on myself and my team, and I was okay with walking away from that and delaying the platform for a couple years. But at the end of the day, I feel like we're in such a better position right now with who we're aligned with, the athletes, the infrastructure that we've built out, and all of our teammates. So looking back, it was a great decision. And I look at it as very similar to going into my third year having 12 opportunities go, 12 teams interested in me coming to the NFL and choosing to stay in Canada. Right. I don't look back on it like, oh, I should have went to the NFL. I don't look back on this decision like I should have taken that deal no matter how good or bad it went after. I just understand what my core concept is and who we want to be a part of this and who I want to work with on a daily basis. That can also help me grow as a, as a leader, as a, as A man as a father, as, you know, a husband and everything else.
[19:56]
B
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. We've been talking a lot about, you know, what you built. I want to shift a little more, even more to, you know, how you think. So what specifically does the athlete mindset look like in practice when you're building a company?
[20:10]
A
It's scary,
[20:13]
B
right?
[20:14]
A
You know, we athletes, they analyze a lot of things and they understand their body and they understand the work ethic, and they understand timelines and all these other things. But then when it comes to the communication piece, we. I do not talk like a businessman. Like, or what I would perceive to be presumed to be a businessman in a boardroom meeting. So sometimes when I'm talking to people and they. And they abbreviate words like, I don't know what this is. Right.
[20:40]
B
I love that it's the worst.
[20:43]
A
And you gotta be like, hey, you know what? Can you explain that? And I'm okay with letting people know. Like, look, can you please explain what you're talking about? I'm not understanding your question. And it takes. It takes a while to get there, because at first you just kind of let it go by because you don't want to seem dumb or unintelligent and you don't ask any questions. But then where they're trying to get to in the conversation without you asking the questions to understand better, you can't get to where they want to go in the conversation. And sometimes that really hinders the conversation because it doesn't get to where they wanted the conversation to get to by the end of it.
[21:22]
B
Yeah, no, I think that's totally accurate. So for entrepreneurs listening who are in a tough season right now, and, you know, you've been there before, what would you tell them?
[21:33]
A
New Year, New Mountain? I mean, I think everything in life is about going into 2020, building AO. It was all about New Year, New Mountain. I said, I don't care what the terrain is. I don't care what the weather is. I'm just going to build and I'm going to climb. Covid happened and definitely didn't expect to do that. Go through Covid, and sports shut down. You're building a sports media platform and sports shuts down. Right. There's no sports on tv and. But it allowed me to adapt the mindset that you shouldn't worry about your circumstances on a daily basis. You should only worry about climbing and positioning yourself to get better and better and better and continue to improve on everything that you're looking to do. It's not going to be easy, but it gets easier when you find your tribe and when you find people that believe in what you want to do, but also they can come in and enhance what you want to do. My original concept of Ayo sports is so much more expansive today from the people that's been a part of it. Right. So I'm so thankful for them coming on board and just being like, hey, you know, here's some other opportunities. Here's what we can do. And we've continued to expand that out.
[22:39]
B
Yeah, I think that's important. So, you know, surrounding yourself with the right people, keep adapting, keep plugging, you know, just keep climbing like you said, and you'll get through. So I think that's good advice. So to further that, if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing about what success actually requires, what would it be?
[22:57]
A
I'll tell you this. I don't really believe in success. I believe in achievements. And because I look back and I even asked my daughter, I said, okay, if I. If I just do nothing for the rest of my life, am I successful? I became a hall of famer, top 1% of the 1%. And I go back to that mountain scenario, right? We get to the top of a mountain and then you got to look across and it looks beautiful. But then you'll see another mountain that's bigger and you can't be afraid to say, okay, well, let's go climb that one. Right. So I believe that once you die, that is when success factors in. People talk about you. They'll. They'll know if your life was a success or failure. And as long as there's time on the clock, you got time to win, you could be a failure for, for 60 years. In the 61st, first year, you create the greatest thing and you're successful. Right? So don't, don't cut yourself short on this success word because you've had some hurdles or because you've had some failures or even if you hit your goals already, find a bigger goal and go after it. Right?
[24:01]
B
Yeah.
[24:02]
A
Always search for. For more in life and to always do those. And I know sometimes my wife tells me it's not the healthiest thing. And I'm always looking for new challenges and doing those things. But I enjoy it, though. I enjoy reaching achievements and reaching goals. So that's why goal setting is so important, because that gives me the satisfaction. But I know that I still have a long way to go. And every day that I'M breathing, I'm going to continue to climb. You know, Les Brown said, it's not that you set a goal and miss says most people set their goals too low and hit and they spend so much more. Right. But they made their dream. If it's playing professional football or basketball or soccer or whatever it is, and then you reach that, it's hard to find something else that's going to top that in life.
[24:53]
B
Right, Understood. I understand. Yeah, I understand. One thing I talk about a lot in, like, the business consulting world is if. If you're always just getting yeses, if you're actually reaching all those goals, it's the same thing, right? You're not reaching high enough.
[25:06]
A
Yeah.
[25:06]
B
So I get that, like, that's what's hard, though, about, you know, professional athletes. And what you're describing, though, is that even, like, you know, entrepreneurs that have hit it big early on in their careers, it's like, well, you've already achieved what you think success looks like, so it's very hard to, you know, keep going, keep growing, like you said. So I think it is important to just. I like the way you look at it. I'm gonna take that away. I love that. But, you know, it's just, what's the next thing, right? Like, what's the next goal now that you've reached this one? You know, it doesn't even have to be in the same lane, so I know. I love the way you think of that. So that's great. Thank you. What habit or principle from your athletic career do you think every entrepreneur, athlete or not, should adopt immediately?
[25:48]
A
What habit? Oh, man, that's a good question. Thanks. I think your habits of just being disciplined and determined, but always listen, right, and love that. I know sometimes we get so fixated, like, it's my idea, it's my this, it's my this. I want it. I want it to be exactly like this. And they're not willing to really change it a little bit or to alter it or to allow it to grow in our minds. Like, if you're a restaurant owner, you, like, you have the perfect concept in your mind, and then if it's not working, you're not. You're unwilling to shift it because you believe in it so much. But maybe there's one or two changes that you could make that makes it what you want it to be, but it's not always identical to what you envision in your mind. Right. So I would say for. For me, it's just, you know, always been disciplined in your Your effort and attitude. Because like in sports, that's the only thing you can control is your effort and attitude every day to do those things. But also being able to listen and, you know, adjust.
[26:56]
B
Yeah. And I think another thing that you said in there when you're giving the restaurant example, for instance, is just, it's listening, but it's also allowing your ego to kind of move aside, Right. Because for you to be able to be a good listener and to adapt and adjust, like when it's your baby, especially something you've, you know, a company, you've started, you've grown, you have this vision, it's hard to hear that feedback. Right. It's hard to listen. So I think it's. Sometimes you also have to kind of put that ego on the shelf a little bit so that you can be a good listener. So great advice. Yeah. And the discipline and the effort and all of that. I think, you know, there's a lot of athletes, there's a lot of people everywhere that say, you know, you might not be the smartest. Right. But you can work the hardest. And I think that's really relevant to what you're saying. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given and do you still follow it?
[27:46]
A
The best piece of advice I've ever been given. Don't take yourself so serious. There's a billion people in China that don't know what you're doing today, Right? And sometimes we, in our own little bubble, things are really down or up and all those things. But just don't take yourself so serious. If you trip and fall, laugh at yourself. Right? Understand that we're on this journey and there's going to be a lot of people out there that'll beat you down. And if you make it high enough, they'll throw rocks at you and try to get you off your game. But at the end of the day, you should never be the worst enemy of yourself, Right? And you got to learn to laugh at yourself and understand you're going to make mistakes. You're going to not make all the right decisions, but learn to sit back, analyze them, laugh at yourself like, man, I can't believe I did this three years ago or yesterday or last week. And, you know, but learn from it and just be willing to get back out there and keep going after playing.
[28:43]
B
You went back to the CFL as a coach. You've built mentorship programs for young athletes. You serve as VP of the Military Community Chamber of Commerce in San Antonio. I think you're still doing all those things. So what drives you to stay connected and give back at that level?
[28:58]
A
Oh, man, my life has been such a blessing that I'm only in the position because of those who supported me. And I truly believe that to give support to others, it's only going to advance the world in a better place. If they don't get it from me or someone that's going in a positive direction, they're going to get it from someone going in a negative direction. Right. And it's just as easy for them to go the opposite way. So, um, it's more about raising these young men and women to believe in themselves and understand what it truly means to obtain your goals and achieve those things. Um, so for me, that's what it's about. Right. It's like using all the things that I've learned in my life, my failures, my successes and achievements and. And all those things to really drive back into to them.
[29:49]
B
And how did you get involved with all of that? I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, they might be. They might have. They have the time to give back now or they don't know how to get started, or they've reached a point in their career where they have the, you know, the means, the financial means to give back. I guess. What's some advice you have around that, like, how do you get started with that and how do you figure out where to put your time and energy?
[30:09]
A
It's. It's all about, for me, impact. I try to put myself in the greatest places to create a positive impact on people. One of my advisors in my company is. He holds a celebrity softball game in Dallas every year, and it's pretty big. I was able to meet Corey Argenbright, former military veteran. And, you know, he was in ordinance disposal, so he'd walk along the roads and they basically get blown up. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hurt Locker, but they get blown up. They're fighting all the bombs and everything and fuel. He got blew up 23 times in his suit until one time he threw him so far and his concussion was so bad, they. They basically kicked him out of the military. And unfortunately, a couple years ago, we lost Corey. But just through the conversations with Corey and he's like, man, there's so much of a similar journey from the ex athlete to a military veteran. Trying to refine yourself and try to find that lane and find where you fit in.
[31:18]
B
What's next?
[31:19]
A
Yeah, and he asked me to be a part of the military community. Chamber of Commerce. And it meant so much to me because I first came on as, like, a board member just to help. And then the spot opened up for vp and everybody was like, man, we would love your. What's your background and knowledge in sports, and you offer something totally different than some of our ideas, and we would love for you to do that. And it was always a temporary position because I always feel like there's other people more qualified than me in understanding those things. But, man, it's been tremendous honor to just be a part of that. Both of my granddads were in the army. I lost one in Vietnam. So very much so. Respect to everyone that wears that uniform. And just like everything, man, I just want to do it. I just want to make people proud of the effort that I can put into something that's going to produce positive results.
[32:16]
B
Yeah. So I think, you know, finding something that you feel like you can actually give back, like, make an impact with, that's it. That's good advice. Yeah.
[32:24]
A
Right.
[32:24]
B
And I talked about that, whatever that might be. Yeah.
[32:26]
A
I talked to a lot of young athletes about charity. Like, my nephew's in college, and I was like, find a charity. I looked up all the sports charity in San Antonio. Here's all the sports charities that's there. Pick one and make sure you're giving back, you know, monthly or quarterly, where you're attending events and you're meeting people when you're doing these things, because it's so powerful, not only from the people that you can meet in those spaces, but it gives you more purpose and an understanding of the impact you can make as an athlete.
[32:57]
B
Yeah, definitely. And it keeps you grounded. Right. To, like, it's not like that. You have. You've been blessed with these other gifts in life. Right. So I agree with that totally. So what are you working on right now that you're most excited about?
[33:12]
A
Just ao There's a lot of tentacles from it that we've. We've created from fantasy leagues and. And some other things that we're. We're planning on putting out. But AO is taking up majority of my time and traveling from rink to rink in Canada with my daughter. She's 11. She's. She plays hockey. So I'm headed to Minnesota in a couple of days for the most prestigious women's hockey tournament there that she'll be playing in this week. So I decided to do as much as I can to be a better father and then just build this company and get it launched so that we can take off and we can help a lot of people.
[33:51]
B
I love that. Thank you so much for all of this. So, Nick, last question. What does it mean to you to be a business MVP man?
[33:59]
A
A business MVP means that you're excellent and at the end of the day, other people can look at you and draw strength. And I've always said in sports, you're supposed to make it look easy enough that everybody thinks they can do it. And if you're an mvp, then other people should believe they can do it too, if you did it. And just be willing to share that journey with others. And, you know, for someone like yourself to even create this and be able to share your platform and empower people that come on here, it is truly amazing. And I'm so thankful for you and I'm so appreciative.
[34:36]
B
Thank you. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
[34:39]
A
Thank you. Can't wait to get back to Texas.
[34:43]
B
Come visit. And that's how champions think. Here are the key takeaways from my conversation with Nick today. Own your work. Don't build on someone else's platform when you can build on your own. Being underestimated is a competitive advantage if you use it right. And your best chapter might be the hardest one. Lean into adversity, because that's where leaders are made. If you got value from today's episode, share it with someone who's ready to think bigger, compete harder, and win. In business, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And if you haven't, leaving a five star review goes a long way in helping us grow, grow and reach more leaders like you. You can also watch every episode on YouTube and follow along on Instagram and TikTok at business MVP Podcast for more behind the scenes and insights. I'm Sammy Peterson. Thanks for being part of the Business MVP community and I'll see you next time as we continue building you into an MVP in business and in life.

Summary6 min read

Business MVP Episode 7 Summary

Episode: "The Ownership Strategy Behind Lasting Success"

Guest: Nik Lewis
Host: Sammy Peterson
Date: August 11, 2026

Overview

This episode dives deep into the journey of Nik Lewis, legendary CFL wide receiver and now sports media entrepreneur. Host Sammy Peterson explores how Nik’s experiences as an underestimated athlete shaped his resilient, ownership-focused approach to business. Together, they discuss the habits, leadership principles, and mindset pivots that allow elite competitors to translate sporting experience into powerful business impact, with a special emphasis on taking control of one’s story, adapting to adversity, and building platforms that empower others.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Overcoming Doubt (02:16–03:49)

Early Dreams & Setbacks:
- Nik wanted to play basketball, walked on to Southern Arkansas's D2 football team.
- His first thought of going pro came from others’ belief, but going undrafted for the NFL was a major letdown.
Turning Point, Thanks to Family:
- Almost quit before his mother urged him to try an arena team tryout, leading to his CFL opportunity.
“I don't know if I have it in myself to want to go do this... My mom just said, ‘Hey son, you're going to play for a long time. I'm already claiming it and you need to go to the workout.’” — Nik Lewis (02:54)

Making “Underdog” an Advantage (03:49–04:46)

Labeled as “too stocky” for a receiver, Nik reframed his size as a tactical asset.
Adapted his game yearly, never relying on speed but on outsmarting and dominating the opposition.

Handling Failure & Building Resilience (04:54–06:24)

Nik’s hardest failure as an athlete: losing the 2010 Western final with a record-breaking team.
Sports teaches quick recalibration after loss — an approach he transferred to business.
Key: Seek feedback, analyze it, and use it to inform improvements even if it’s uncomfortable.

“Sometimes people get into this failure mindset and it destroys them... With sports, you're able to refocus, put together a new game plan and turn it around very quickly.” — Nik Lewis (05:14)

Entertainer’s Mindset & Experience Creation (07:12–08:45)

Inspired by his cousin’s example, Nik realized early that sports is about entertainment and creating memorable experiences — a lesson he carries into business ventures like AO Sports and 'Dreamtrips.'
Focus: Not just winning, but crafting moments for audiences and fans.

Leadership Lessons Under Adversity (09:04–11:01)

Most meaningful season wasn’t a championship, but earning a team captaincy at age 34 in Montreal under strain.
Leadership = Creating value for others, supporting young players, and being a buffer in times of tension.

“Leadership is a constant journey... willing to take the bullets for the rest of the people in the room and understanding how to add value to more than just yourself.” — Nik Lewis (09:04)

From Teammates to Business Partners (11:56–13:52)

Nik’s philosophy: teammates fill gaps for each other in ways coworkers rarely do.
AO Sports was structured as an ecosystem — combining mentorship, business, media, financial literacy, and transition support so athletes/creators can thrive post-career.

The Power of Ownership (13:52–14:26)

Content creators/athletes retain 100% ownership with AO Sports; platform leases content from them.
Building sustainable brands and income beyond playing days, not just selling moments.

“100% ownership is big for me. We lease their content for a year... It's about empowering the athlete to really build a brand and sustain that brand.” — Nik Lewis (13:58)

Why Athletes Often Miss Branding (14:26–16:32)

Most don't truly define their brand; many say yes to everything due to lack of clarity or short-term necessity.
AO Sports’ mission: Help athletes/entrepreneurs articulate and build their brand strategically, setting habits to achieve lasting success.

Navigating High-Stakes Business Decisions (17:58–19:55)

Nik walked away from a major funding deal when partners tried for excessive ownership at the last minute.
The lesson: refuse bad partnerships and be willing to delay reward for the right alignment.

“At that point I knew I didn't want that to be my teammate... I'm willing to bet on myself and my team.” — Nik Lewis (18:48)

Athlete Mindset in Business (20:10–21:22)

Intimidated by corporate jargon, Nik emphasizes asking questions and admitting ignorance as strengths.
Encourages entrepreneurs to be open about what they don’t know in business contexts.

Advice for Entrepreneurs in Tough Seasons (21:33–22:38)

"New year, new mountain": Each year is another climb; focus on incremental progress regardless of “terrain.”
The importance of building the right tribe to help you reach new summits.

“You shouldn't worry about your circumstances on a daily basis. You should only worry about climbing and positioning yourself to get better and better and better.” — Nik Lewis (21:33)

Redefining Success & The “Next Mountain” Mindset (22:57–25:47)

Nik rejects the traditional concept of success — values continuous achievements and new challenges over static finish lines.

“I don't really believe in success. I believe in achievements... We get to the top of a mountain and then you gotta look across and it looks beautiful, but then you'll see another mountain that's bigger.” — Nik Lewis (22:57)

Essential Habits for All Leaders (25:47–26:55)

Discipline and determination, combined with active listening and humility.
Importance of adjusting vision and welcoming feedback — even (especially) if it changes one’s original ideas.

“Been disciplined in your effort and attitude... and being able to listen and adjust.” — Nik Lewis (25:47)

Best Advice Received (27:46–28:42)

"Don’t take yourself so serious."
Celebrate your own mistakes, stay humble, and don’t let success breed ego.

Commitment to Giving Back (28:42–32:16)

Driven to mentorship and service by gratitude for those who lifted him.
Views giving back as both responsibility and multiplier for social good, especially for young athletes and military veterans.

Finding Purpose in Community (32:16–33:11)

Encourages entrepreneurs and athletes to find causes where they can have specific impact, whether financial or through direct involvement.

“It's all about, for me, impact. I try to put myself in the greatest places to create a positive impact on people.” — Nik Lewis (30:08)

What’s Next & Family (33:11–33:59)

AO and related ventures (fantasy leagues, more), plus prioritizing time traveling to hockey tournaments with his daughter.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On walking away from a tempting deal:

“I'm willing to bet on myself and my team, and I was okay with walking away from that and delaying the platform for a couple years.” — Nik Lewis (18:48)
Defining MVP in business:

“A business MVP means that you're excellent and at the end of the day, other people can look at you and draw strength... If you're an mvp, then other people should believe they can do it too, if you did it.” — Nik Lewis (33:59)
On the real value of leadership:

“Being able to say, hey, I understand that this is not a healthy thing... I'm just trying to deflect it in a way that it's positive for everybody and [people] can get out what they need... and go do what [they’re] supposed to do.” — Nik Lewis (10:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

02:16–03:49: Early setbacks, mother’s influence, how quitting became opportunity
04:54–06:24: Handling failure as an athlete and in business
09:04–11:01: Leadership lessons and managing team adversity
13:52–14:26: Content and brand ownership, AO Sports’ unique model
17:58–19:55: Walked away from major deal over ownership stakes
21:33–22:38: Climbing new mountains and advice for entrepreneurs facing tough times
22:57–25:47: Rethinking "success" as ongoing achievement, not a fixed target
28:42–33:11: Mentorship, service, and finding impact in giving back
33:59: What it means to be a Business MVP

Key Takeaways

Own your brand and content—don’t depend on someone else’s platform.
Turning perceived disadvantages into advantages is vital in both sports and business.
Leadership means taking the bullets and adding value beyond your own interests.
Continuous feedback, adaptation, and humility drive entrepreneurial success.
Every achievement is just a new mountain—keep climbing, keep growing.
Mentorship and giving back are not add-ons, but essential steps in enduring success.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone driven to transform adversity into opportunity, lead with authenticity, and build businesses that empower others long after the spotlight fades.

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Transcript78 lines

[00:00]
A
I don't really believe in success. We get to the top of a mountain and then you gotta look across and it looks beautiful, but then you'll see another mountain that's bigger. You could be a failure for 60 years. In the 61st year, you create the greatest thing. Once you die, that is when success factors in.
[00:14]
B
His mother talked him into a tryout he didn't want to take, and 14 years later he became the CFL's all time receptions leader with over 1,000 catches, a two time Grey cup champion and a first ballot hall of Famer.
[00:27]
A
I had success from having other great teammates and great coaches willing to take the bullets for the rest of the people in the room and understanding how to add value to more than just yourself.
[00:36]
B
Now, he's taken that same mindset and built a career around mentorship, media and business because he believes athletes should own their story, their content and their future.
[00:45]
A
We want to put people in that position where it's not a scary thing when your career is over and you're okay to walk away and you're not just playing because you need another paycheck.
[00:52]
B
What was your biggest failure as an athlete and how did that shape how you handle failure in business?
[00:57]
A
Man. I haven't really talked about this publicly, but
[01:03]
B
my next guest almost turned down professional football. His mother talked him into a tryout he didn't want to take, and 14 years later he became the CFL's all time receptions leader with over a thousand catches, a two time Gray cup champion and a first ballot hall of Famer. Now he's taken that same mindset and built a career around mentorship, media and business because he believes athletes should own their story, their content, and their future. Nick Lewis, welcome to business. Mvp.
[01:32]
A
And it's so good to be here. Thank you for the invite and thanks for sharing your audience.
[01:36]
B
Thank you. So first, I want to start by saying I read that you grew up in Jacksboro, Texas. Is that right?
[01:43]
A
Yes. Small town Texas.
[01:46]
B
Okay. Yeah. So I wouldn't say I'm a Texan quite yet, but I've been in Austin for about five years now, so it's
[01:52]
A
an amazing place, isn't it? It's grown a lot.
[01:54]
B
It's grown a lot. It's grown a lot. Yeah, it's changing all the time here, I feel like. Yes. So just want to start off with your athletic career. So you played Division 2 college football at Southern Arkansas and I'm guessing after college you thought your playing days were done. I read that your mom talked you into the arena football tryout and you didn't even want to go. So take me back to that moment. What was she seeing in you that you couldn't see in yourself?
[02:17]
A
Well, it was a whirlwind. Coming out of high school, I really wanted to play basketball and I was actually a D2 walk on. So I walked on to Southern Arkansas. So my senior year after the game, you're shaking hands with people and they're like looking forward to seeing you on TV next year. And that was the first time I thought I could play pro football. And then I take off the spring semester there to go train to get ready for the NFL. I don't get drafted, I don't get picked up as a free agent. And just the mental letdown of not being chosen and not getting an opportunity when for so long I didn't believe it. And then I started to believe it and then it didn't happen. And my agent called me two days after the draft and says, hey, we have a workout for you for the Arkansas Twisters. And I'm thinking I just went from potentially going to the NFL and getting drafted to going to play arena football for $200 a week. And at that point it was kind of like, man, I don't know if I have it in myself to want to go do this. And my mom just said, hey son, you're going to play for a long time. I'm already claiming it and you need to go to the workout. And it was good because when I went to the workout, the former head coach there the year before had just became the offensive coordinator for the Calgary Stampeders and his former offensive coordinator was now the head coach and he was a former NFL receiver. And once I worked out for that team, he really liked me. And I believe that was a part of me getting the opportunity to go to Calgary.
[03:49]
B
You're the CFL's all time receptions leader at 5 foot 10, 240 pounds. Not exactly built like the typical receiver. Right. So how did your size and being, I guess, underestimated become your greatest advantage?
[04:03]
A
Well, the, the running joke I used to tell people was I had a thousand yards at ten different weight classes. I actually went into the CFL at 197, 200 pounds. Unfortunately, my brother's 6 4, my dad's 6 2. I just didn't grow. But we all look just alike as far as how our shoulders and back look. And once I turned 25, I really started to develop out. It was good. I just changed my game over year after year and just being able to Go in and try to dominate the opposition. I guess the best part, I wasn't a speed guy. Even at a 4, 5, 4 40, and there's guys running four threes and four fours. I wasn't ever that. So it never really hurt me to put on a little bit more weight and to develop in the way I did.
[04:47]
B
I love that. So what was your biggest failure as an athlete and how did that shape how you handle failure in business?
[04:54]
A
Man, I. I think there's so many failures. The. The. One of the hardest things I ever took was losing the Western final in 2010. It was the best team I'd ever been a part of. We were averaging 37 points a game. We were dominating everybody. And then to go out and lose that game, it was really a defeating moment, you know, but there's so many failures in life that we go through. And in sports, we prepare for a moment or we prepare for that week, we get the results and we're able to retool and go back at it. And I think that sometimes people get into this failure mindset and it destroys them for months or years because of something really bad happening. And with sports, you're able to refocus, put together a new game plan and turn it around and go back at
[05:43]
B
it very quickly so that. So when you do that in business, you kind of kept that same approach. Then I'm assuming that's it.
[05:49]
A
That's it. You know, it's always like one step forward. I take everything that people say, and when they tell me their feedback, I take it to heart what that feedback is, and then I analyze it. I mean, I don't think everybody understands fully what we're doing and how we're doing it, so. But I give them the credit to say, you know what, you've been in business or you've done this or you've accomplished this. I'm going to take what you're saying, I'm going to analyze and apply it. And maybe there's something in there. Maybe it's one thing. Maybe it's a lot of things that I could take and say, okay, maybe this could be a little bit stronger and we're able to go in and retool it and just improve our business plan.
[06:25]
B
Yeah, and I think you actually just said something even, like, really important that was secondary there, but feedback.
[06:29]
A
Right.
[06:30]
B
We're always in business talking about how important feedback is. And a lot of people, you know, are afraid to ask for feedback. Right. They're afraid of that criticism, even if it's constructive. And one of the things, you know, we talk about a lot in the business world is just you always gotta be seeking feedback because if you're not, you're not continually growing, improving, you're just. You're surrounding yourself with yes men. And that's not. You're not gonna grow and learn. Right? So I love that you brought up feedback. So I read that you said you, you, you look at it like when you were in the cfl that you're an entertainer and so that you understood early that fans pay to see a show. And, you know, a lot of people don't think of it like that. Right. So when did that mindset shift from football to business for you?
[07:13]
A
It was really my cousin, Tacoma Fontaine, he played arena football and for eight years. And growing up, he's five years older than me. So watching him play professional sports, see, now he engaged the kids and just the people in the arena, and I understood that we have to entertain one. And if I do a good job entertaining, that means we have a pretty good chance of winning a game. So it wasn't just focused on the game, is focused on creating an atmosphere and an opportunity to really make people want to be there to see it. Right. And in business, it's the same thing is like, I love watching people experience something for the first time, right? Whether it's me doing something, one of my friends, my college best friend coming up to Canada for the first time, my family coming to Canada for the first time. It's really cool for me to see those experiences and I want to execute that more. And we're calling them Dreamtrips and ao, where we're going to execute fans, sports dreamtrips and allow them to experience these things in real time, things they never thought they would be able to experience. Because it's just so special how we can use these experiences and to enhance our lives. And then I believe more people should win their championship. Right. And that validates you, right? Once you win a championship, it's like, okay, well, it was worth going through the failure. It was worth going through everything it took to get here. And that gives it so much more value. And I think in life, we. People have to start seeing what is their championship like, what is it that allows them to have the success that they are able to build on and take that into the next thing.
[08:45]
B
Yeah, I love that. That's. That's a really good takeaway and to kind of go further into that. You know, you said your most meaningful season wasn't your championship year, though. You've said it was Montreal where you face adversity. You earned the captaincy for the first time at age 34. So what did that chapter teach you about leadership?
[09:05]
A
Man? It's a. Leadership is a constant journey, and every team, there's new players, new dynamics, possibly new coaches. So figuring it out and willing to take the bullets for the rest of the people in the room and understanding how to add value to more than just yourself. Right. So how can I come into a room with young guys and be able to feed into them, pour into them that allows them to be a little bit better? How can I help the veterans and the new players accommodate to what we're doing and what's the real role? And then it's always setting the tone. Right. No matter if it's practice or in the game, you got to go out and set the tone on a daily basis, because when it goes bad, everybody's going to look at you, and you have to be strong enough to withstand that and still show people that we still have the ability to go out and get it done.
[09:54]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think that applies directly to business. Everything you just said. Right. So. And then that's just the client and the company.
[10:01]
A
That's it. I remember having one conversation, I won't say his name. Him and the quarterback were getting into it a lot, and he would get frustrated, really frustrated when he didn't get the ball. And I've been there before, and I just told him before a game, I said, hey, if you need to yell and scream or cuss, come yell, cuss me out. Scream at me. Don't do it to the quarterback. You're both young. It's not going to be good, and we can't win like that. But if you got to say something, just come say it to me, and then we'll refocus, and then we'll go back out there and get the job done. And, you know, that's part of being a leader, is being able to say, hey, I understand that this is not a healthy thing and it can't continue to go on. But you can't stop people from being themselves either. Right. I can't go to him and say, hey, don't do that again, because it's probably going to happen again. You know, I'm just trying to deflect it in a way that it's positive for everybody and he can get out what he needs to get out and then refocus and go back and do what he's supposed to do.
[11:02]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I think that applies to business, too, just because it's kind of like the concept of a thought partner. Like, sometimes people just need somebody to listen, right. And to vet and to vent. And, you know, it's really important in all aspects of life, business, athletics, everywhere, just to have somebody that you can. You can vent to that is just going to be a listener, right? So whether you're. And. And I, I love being on the other side of that because it's like you can just practice your. Your listening skills, right? You don't even have to contribute all that much, and that sometimes that's just what people need. So, you know, in addition to everything you just said about being a leader, I think it's also highlights. Just everybody needs a thought partner. So I love that You've built a career around three things. Mentorship, business, media, and you're running AO Sports tv. You host the Lulu Logic podcast, you speak on stages, and you mentor young athletes. So how did all those pieces connect? And what's the bigger vision, man?
[11:56]
A
Sometimes it's like God puts us in a position to really live out our journey and help us find our real purpose and passion where sports really drives so much of my life. And one of the things I really took away from my career was I was a great teammate, and I had success from having other great teammates and great coaches. So I wanted to create a company that resembled the same thing because I looked at a lot of my former teammates, and they go into life, they've been a teammate since they were four or five years old, and now they're in life and they have co workers. Co workers do not show up the same way. Teammates show up for you right when you're in life. And now it's like, okay, well, I'm struggling because I was able to do this, this, and this really well, but my teammates were able to fill in the gaps. And now whether they're in media and they know what they want to talk about, they don't know how to do the design set. They don't know how to do the branding or the marketing. They don't know the algorithms, and they don't. So there's so many pieces that they're trying to figure out in real time, and it's changing every day, every week and, and. And every month. So I really wanted to create a company that resembled my life. What did I miss out on when I was a young athlete? I wish I had more access to financial literacy. I wish I had more access to. To mentorship. I Wish I had more access to just a lot of these things and being able to provide that now and, and connect people that are already doing that, it's like, look, you're great at what you do. You can do it by yourself if you want to, but why don't you join our team, be a part of our ecosystem, and let's do it together. And that's essentially what aosports is. It's businesses. It's from marketing, branding, production, support, it's transition, character building, financial literacy, all these different companies that are already doing it, just coming into our ecosystem. And then we empower the athlete to really build a brand and sustain that brand. Right. In a way that we pay it is stable and scalable.
[13:53]
B
Got it. And so they still own their content. Right. And they profit from their work. Because I know that's something that's really big for you.
[13:58]
A
100% ownership is big for me. And we lease their content for a year. So everything that's behind the paywall is leased content from the creator for a year. Everything in front of the paywall, you can put it on any platform, but it's still part of our al sports ecosystem for the free members on our platform as well.
[14:19]
B
Okay, I love that. And so I guess tell me a little more about that. Like, why does that matter? And what are athletes and entrepreneurs getting wrong about their own brand right now?
[14:27]
A
I think a lot of athletes don't understand their brand. It's kind of like they, if you ask them what their brand is, it's kind of like, okay, I don't know what my brand is. I know what I want to accomplish. I know what I want to talk about. I know I want Nike to sponsor me, but they don't know how to get those steps in order to get there. And for us, it's about how do we help you put those things in place and work backwards. Right? What is the goal? And then let's set the habits to create the success and, and reach our goals. And so for us, it's like, how do we put people in a place that they could just be their best? And, and really, that's what aosports is. It's. It's a. Will be a mobile app, will be a TV app. We sign athletes and creators, sports content creators, to contracts and then we help them. We find out where do you need support, and we're able to fill in the gaps. And the cool part about us is like, I know we're going to deal with agents, so we actually pay the agents so it doesn't come out of the athletes fee or revenue share. Right. So agents flip houses, right. Every three, you know, average careers every three years. So now when we talk to agencies, they love it because they're like, okay, well now I can actually get paid off this athlete for the next 20, 30 years. Not just while they're relevant in their sport as a pro now, the agent is actually more involved in the athlete's long term viability because some of the bigger agencies, they do everything, they're just like, hey, all we need is distribution and monetization from you. Great, that's better for us, you know, and we can focus our attention on the rest of the athletes that we have in our stable.
[16:07]
B
Yeah. And do you think it's that? So kind of back to what I was asking, like, do you think people get what they get wrong? Is that they really haven't like really thought through and identified what their brand actually is. Like you said, they kind of know where they want to go ultimately or they know like they've had this career, but they're not defining what the brand is. So if you don't do that, then you just kind of get lost in the shuffle of either just saying yes to everything or picking the wrong things. Right. Is that accurate?
[16:33]
A
You hit it on the head. Right. And even when looking like 68% of people are making less than $1,000 a month. Right. So they're pretty much saying yes to any opportunity just to make money or you know, gift cards or whatever the case is. They're not in a position to say, hey, I can really build a brand that's going to increase my nil opportunity from just who I am on social media and the ability to connect to more people through storytelling. And then that's what we want to create. So it's a more stable situation. And it doesn't just end when if you don't go pro. Right. You still have value. Because we look at the best brands like Michael Jordan and what Magic Johnson has done in the space and the ownership that they have now, they've made more money off the field and off the court than they did ever plan. So we want to put people in that position where it's not a scary thing when your career is over and you're okay to walk away and you're not just playing because you need another paycheck.
[17:30]
B
Yeah, I love that. I've talked to a lot of athletes on this show, obviously, and it's amazing how many of them really think through the what's after piece, you know, and I think that must be, you know, at the forefront of a lot of athletes minds. You retire at such a young age in the scheme of it all. So there is this, you know, whole what's next, you know, what's the next chapter? So I love that so many people have recognized that and are focusing on that. It's amazing. So what's the hardest business decision you've had to make and how do you feel like your football background shaped how you handled it?
[17:59]
A
I haven't really talked about this publicly, but I feel like it's a great opportunity.
[18:04]
B
Love it.
[18:05]
A
We were engaged, you know, as a, as an entrepreneur, you're always looking for money. And we had a verbal agreement with a very powerful group and they were going to give us so much power to amplify the business and do all these things. And we verbally agreed on an amount that I was going to give up, an equity. And then right before we did all the due diligence that they asked for, they were on board 100% and then they asked for 47% of the company right before we signed contracts. And I said no. So I had to walk away from that deal completely. And I felt like they put us in that situation because they just felt like, what other option do you have? Right.
[18:47]
B
And you've put all this time into it, right? Yeah.
[18:49]
A
At that point I knew I didn't want that to be my teammate. Right. And at the end of the day, where it could have advanced us, it could have gave us so many more opportunities, I'm willing to bet on myself and my team, and I was okay with walking away from that and delaying the platform for a couple years. But at the end of the day, I feel like we're in such a better position right now with who we're aligned with, the athletes, the infrastructure that we've built out, and all of our teammates. So looking back, it was a great decision. And I look at it as very similar to going into my third year having 12 opportunities go, 12 teams interested in me coming to the NFL and choosing to stay in Canada. Right. I don't look back on it like, oh, I should have went to the NFL. I don't look back on this decision like I should have taken that deal no matter how good or bad it went after. I just understand what my core concept is and who we want to be a part of this and who I want to work with on a daily basis. That can also help me grow as a, as a leader, as a, as A man as a father, as, you know, a husband and everything else.
[19:56]
B
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. We've been talking a lot about, you know, what you built. I want to shift a little more, even more to, you know, how you think. So what specifically does the athlete mindset look like in practice when you're building a company?
[20:10]
A
It's scary,
[20:13]
B
right?
[20:14]
A
You know, we athletes, they analyze a lot of things and they understand their body and they understand the work ethic, and they understand timelines and all these other things. But then when it comes to the communication piece, we. I do not talk like a businessman. Like, or what I would perceive to be presumed to be a businessman in a boardroom meeting. So sometimes when I'm talking to people and they. And they abbreviate words like, I don't know what this is. Right.
[20:40]
B
I love that it's the worst.
[20:43]
A
And you gotta be like, hey, you know what? Can you explain that? And I'm okay with letting people know. Like, look, can you please explain what you're talking about? I'm not understanding your question. And it takes. It takes a while to get there, because at first you just kind of let it go by because you don't want to seem dumb or unintelligent and you don't ask any questions. But then where they're trying to get to in the conversation without you asking the questions to understand better, you can't get to where they want to go in the conversation. And sometimes that really hinders the conversation because it doesn't get to where they wanted the conversation to get to by the end of it.
[21:22]
B
Yeah, no, I think that's totally accurate. So for entrepreneurs listening who are in a tough season right now, and, you know, you've been there before, what would you tell them?
[21:33]
A
New Year, New Mountain? I mean, I think everything in life is about going into 2020, building AO. It was all about New Year, New Mountain. I said, I don't care what the terrain is. I don't care what the weather is. I'm just going to build and I'm going to climb. Covid happened and definitely didn't expect to do that. Go through Covid, and sports shut down. You're building a sports media platform and sports shuts down. Right. There's no sports on tv and. But it allowed me to adapt the mindset that you shouldn't worry about your circumstances on a daily basis. You should only worry about climbing and positioning yourself to get better and better and better and continue to improve on everything that you're looking to do. It's not going to be easy, but it gets easier when you find your tribe and when you find people that believe in what you want to do, but also they can come in and enhance what you want to do. My original concept of Ayo sports is so much more expansive today from the people that's been a part of it. Right. So I'm so thankful for them coming on board and just being like, hey, you know, here's some other opportunities. Here's what we can do. And we've continued to expand that out.
[22:39]
B
Yeah, I think that's important. So, you know, surrounding yourself with the right people, keep adapting, keep plugging, you know, just keep climbing like you said, and you'll get through. So I think that's good advice. So to further that, if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing about what success actually requires, what would it be?
[22:57]
A
I'll tell you this. I don't really believe in success. I believe in achievements. And because I look back and I even asked my daughter, I said, okay, if I. If I just do nothing for the rest of my life, am I successful? I became a hall of famer, top 1% of the 1%. And I go back to that mountain scenario, right? We get to the top of a mountain and then you got to look across and it looks beautiful. But then you'll see another mountain that's bigger and you can't be afraid to say, okay, well, let's go climb that one. Right. So I believe that once you die, that is when success factors in. People talk about you. They'll. They'll know if your life was a success or failure. And as long as there's time on the clock, you got time to win, you could be a failure for, for 60 years. In the 61st, first year, you create the greatest thing and you're successful. Right? So don't, don't cut yourself short on this success word because you've had some hurdles or because you've had some failures or even if you hit your goals already, find a bigger goal and go after it. Right?
[24:01]
B
Yeah.
[24:02]
A
Always search for. For more in life and to always do those. And I know sometimes my wife tells me it's not the healthiest thing. And I'm always looking for new challenges and doing those things. But I enjoy it, though. I enjoy reaching achievements and reaching goals. So that's why goal setting is so important, because that gives me the satisfaction. But I know that I still have a long way to go. And every day that I'M breathing, I'm going to continue to climb. You know, Les Brown said, it's not that you set a goal and miss says most people set their goals too low and hit and they spend so much more. Right. But they made their dream. If it's playing professional football or basketball or soccer or whatever it is, and then you reach that, it's hard to find something else that's going to top that in life.
[24:53]
B
Right, Understood. I understand. Yeah, I understand. One thing I talk about a lot in, like, the business consulting world is if. If you're always just getting yeses, if you're actually reaching all those goals, it's the same thing, right? You're not reaching high enough.
[25:06]
A
Yeah.
[25:06]
B
So I get that, like, that's what's hard, though, about, you know, professional athletes. And what you're describing, though, is that even, like, you know, entrepreneurs that have hit it big early on in their careers, it's like, well, you've already achieved what you think success looks like, so it's very hard to, you know, keep going, keep growing, like you said. So I think it is important to just. I like the way you look at it. I'm gonna take that away. I love that. But, you know, it's just, what's the next thing, right? Like, what's the next goal now that you've reached this one? You know, it doesn't even have to be in the same lane, so I know. I love the way you think of that. So that's great. Thank you. What habit or principle from your athletic career do you think every entrepreneur, athlete or not, should adopt immediately?
[25:48]
A
What habit? Oh, man, that's a good question. Thanks. I think your habits of just being disciplined and determined, but always listen, right, and love that. I know sometimes we get so fixated, like, it's my idea, it's my this, it's my this. I want it. I want it to be exactly like this. And they're not willing to really change it a little bit or to alter it or to allow it to grow in our minds. Like, if you're a restaurant owner, you, like, you have the perfect concept in your mind, and then if it's not working, you're not. You're unwilling to shift it because you believe in it so much. But maybe there's one or two changes that you could make that makes it what you want it to be, but it's not always identical to what you envision in your mind. Right. So I would say for. For me, it's just, you know, always been disciplined in your Your effort and attitude. Because like in sports, that's the only thing you can control is your effort and attitude every day to do those things. But also being able to listen and, you know, adjust.
[26:56]
B
Yeah. And I think another thing that you said in there when you're giving the restaurant example, for instance, is just, it's listening, but it's also allowing your ego to kind of move aside, Right. Because for you to be able to be a good listener and to adapt and adjust, like when it's your baby, especially something you've, you know, a company, you've started, you've grown, you have this vision, it's hard to hear that feedback. Right. It's hard to listen. So I think it's. Sometimes you also have to kind of put that ego on the shelf a little bit so that you can be a good listener. So great advice. Yeah. And the discipline and the effort and all of that. I think, you know, there's a lot of athletes, there's a lot of people everywhere that say, you know, you might not be the smartest. Right. But you can work the hardest. And I think that's really relevant to what you're saying. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given and do you still follow it?
[27:46]
A
The best piece of advice I've ever been given. Don't take yourself so serious. There's a billion people in China that don't know what you're doing today, Right? And sometimes we, in our own little bubble, things are really down or up and all those things. But just don't take yourself so serious. If you trip and fall, laugh at yourself. Right? Understand that we're on this journey and there's going to be a lot of people out there that'll beat you down. And if you make it high enough, they'll throw rocks at you and try to get you off your game. But at the end of the day, you should never be the worst enemy of yourself, Right? And you got to learn to laugh at yourself and understand you're going to make mistakes. You're going to not make all the right decisions, but learn to sit back, analyze them, laugh at yourself like, man, I can't believe I did this three years ago or yesterday or last week. And, you know, but learn from it and just be willing to get back out there and keep going after playing.
[28:43]
B
You went back to the CFL as a coach. You've built mentorship programs for young athletes. You serve as VP of the Military Community Chamber of Commerce in San Antonio. I think you're still doing all those things. So what drives you to stay connected and give back at that level?
[28:58]
A
Oh, man, my life has been such a blessing that I'm only in the position because of those who supported me. And I truly believe that to give support to others, it's only going to advance the world in a better place. If they don't get it from me or someone that's going in a positive direction, they're going to get it from someone going in a negative direction. Right. And it's just as easy for them to go the opposite way. So, um, it's more about raising these young men and women to believe in themselves and understand what it truly means to obtain your goals and achieve those things. Um, so for me, that's what it's about. Right. It's like using all the things that I've learned in my life, my failures, my successes and achievements and. And all those things to really drive back into to them.
[29:49]
B
And how did you get involved with all of that? I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, they might be. They might have. They have the time to give back now or they don't know how to get started, or they've reached a point in their career where they have the, you know, the means, the financial means to give back. I guess. What's some advice you have around that, like, how do you get started with that and how do you figure out where to put your time and energy?
[30:09]
A
It's. It's all about, for me, impact. I try to put myself in the greatest places to create a positive impact on people. One of my advisors in my company is. He holds a celebrity softball game in Dallas every year, and it's pretty big. I was able to meet Corey Argenbright, former military veteran. And, you know, he was in ordinance disposal, so he'd walk along the roads and they basically get blown up. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hurt Locker, but they get blown up. They're fighting all the bombs and everything and fuel. He got blew up 23 times in his suit until one time he threw him so far and his concussion was so bad, they. They basically kicked him out of the military. And unfortunately, a couple years ago, we lost Corey. But just through the conversations with Corey and he's like, man, there's so much of a similar journey from the ex athlete to a military veteran. Trying to refine yourself and try to find that lane and find where you fit in.
[31:18]
B
What's next?
[31:19]
A
Yeah, and he asked me to be a part of the military community. Chamber of Commerce. And it meant so much to me because I first came on as, like, a board member just to help. And then the spot opened up for vp and everybody was like, man, we would love your. What's your background and knowledge in sports, and you offer something totally different than some of our ideas, and we would love for you to do that. And it was always a temporary position because I always feel like there's other people more qualified than me in understanding those things. But, man, it's been tremendous honor to just be a part of that. Both of my granddads were in the army. I lost one in Vietnam. So very much so. Respect to everyone that wears that uniform. And just like everything, man, I just want to do it. I just want to make people proud of the effort that I can put into something that's going to produce positive results.
[32:16]
B
Yeah. So I think, you know, finding something that you feel like you can actually give back, like, make an impact with, that's it. That's good advice. Yeah.
[32:24]
A
Right.
[32:24]
B
And I talked about that, whatever that might be. Yeah.
[32:26]
A
I talked to a lot of young athletes about charity. Like, my nephew's in college, and I was like, find a charity. I looked up all the sports charity in San Antonio. Here's all the sports charities that's there. Pick one and make sure you're giving back, you know, monthly or quarterly, where you're attending events and you're meeting people when you're doing these things, because it's so powerful, not only from the people that you can meet in those spaces, but it gives you more purpose and an understanding of the impact you can make as an athlete.
[32:57]
B
Yeah, definitely. And it keeps you grounded. Right. To, like, it's not like that. You have. You've been blessed with these other gifts in life. Right. So I agree with that totally. So what are you working on right now that you're most excited about?
[33:12]
A
Just ao There's a lot of tentacles from it that we've. We've created from fantasy leagues and. And some other things that we're. We're planning on putting out. But AO is taking up majority of my time and traveling from rink to rink in Canada with my daughter. She's 11. She's. She plays hockey. So I'm headed to Minnesota in a couple of days for the most prestigious women's hockey tournament there that she'll be playing in this week. So I decided to do as much as I can to be a better father and then just build this company and get it launched so that we can take off and we can help a lot of people.
[33:51]
B
I love that. Thank you so much for all of this. So, Nick, last question. What does it mean to you to be a business MVP man?
[33:59]
A
A business MVP means that you're excellent and at the end of the day, other people can look at you and draw strength. And I've always said in sports, you're supposed to make it look easy enough that everybody thinks they can do it. And if you're an mvp, then other people should believe they can do it too, if you did it. And just be willing to share that journey with others. And, you know, for someone like yourself to even create this and be able to share your platform and empower people that come on here, it is truly amazing. And I'm so thankful for you and I'm so appreciative.
[34:36]
B
Thank you. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
[34:39]
A
Thank you. Can't wait to get back to Texas.
[34:43]
B
Come visit. And that's how champions think. Here are the key takeaways from my conversation with Nick today. Own your work. Don't build on someone else's platform when you can build on your own. Being underestimated is a competitive advantage if you use it right. And your best chapter might be the hardest one. Lean into adversity, because that's where leaders are made. If you got value from today's episode, share it with someone who's ready to think bigger, compete harder, and win. In business, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And if you haven't, leaving a five star review goes a long way in helping us grow, grow and reach more leaders like you. You can also watch every episode on YouTube and follow along on Instagram and TikTok at business MVP Podcast for more behind the scenes and insights. I'm Sammy Peterson. Thanks for being part of the Business MVP community and I'll see you next time as we continue building you into an MVP in business and in life.