David Phoenix's client checklist

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: David Phoenix's Client Checklist - Detailed Summary

Introduction

In the "Business of Home" podcast episode titled "David Phoenix's Client Checklist," host Dennis Scully engages in a heartfelt and insightful conversation with renowned interior designer David Phoenix. Released on March 24, 2025, this episode delves into David's personal journey from a troubled youth to a successful career in interior design, his professional philosophies, and the essential criteria he uses when selecting clients.

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Early Life and Overcoming Adversity

David Phoenix opens up about his challenging early years, marked by instability and addiction. He shares how leaving home at 15 and struggling with various jobs led him down a tumultuous path. However, his life took a positive turn when he embraced sobriety, a decision that became the foundation of his future success.

At [15:42], David reflects:

"Tomorrow is my sobriety date. I'll have 36 years of sobriety tomorrow."

He credits a mentor, Bill Burns, who played a pivotal role in steering him away from destructive behaviors toward a productive and fulfilling career.

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Establishing His Design Firm with Barry Diller's Help

A significant turning point in David's career was his interaction with Barry Diller. After losing his job in the early '90s and caring for a friend with AIDS, David sought guidance from Diller. This meeting led to the swift incorporation of his design business, setting the stage for his future endeavors.

At [05:30], David recounts:

"Barry laughed and he said, 'What is your passion?' I said, 'I'm going to become an interior designer.' And he immediately set up my business. Next thing, I was incorporated as David Phoenix."

This endorsement by Diller not only provided David with the necessary resources but also connected him with high-profile clients, including Maria Shriver and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

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Building a Reputation and Client Relationships

David emphasizes the importance of authenticity and honesty in the design industry. He believes that being upfront about one's limitations fosters trust and respect among clients and peers. This philosophy has been instrumental in building his reputable brand.

At [18:27], David advises:

"Staying in your own lane and being honest about what you don't know is crucial. There's nothing wrong with asking for help."

His approach to client relationships is rooted in organic connections rather than aggressive self-promotion. This method has led to meaningful and long-lasting collaborations, contributing significantly to his success.

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Battling Cancer and Personal Struggles

The conversation takes an emotional turn as David shares his battle with stage four cancer, which occurred around 12-13 years ago. Balancing his professional responsibilities with his health struggles was incredibly challenging, but it also reinforced his resilience and commitment to his craft.

At [37:56], David divulges:

"I had stage four cancer, and it was a terrible time. I remember bursting into tears at the sample desk because I was so sick and unrecognizable without hair."

Despite these hardships, David found strength in collaboration and the unwavering support of his clients and colleagues, which helped him navigate this difficult period.

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Professional Achievements and Collaborations

David has collaborated with prestigious brands like Hickory Chair and Kravet, launching furniture lines that reflect his design philosophy. He discusses the meticulous process involved in designing and bringing new pieces to market, emphasizing the importance of quality and innovation.

At [40:18], David explains:

"I'm preparing for a big launch of 36 new pieces. It's about collaboration with Hickory Chair to create successful and beautiful designs that sometimes push the envelope."

His dedication to excellence is evident in every project he undertakes, ensuring that each piece not only meets but exceeds industry standards.

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David Phoenix's Client Checklist

One of the core topics of the episode is David's client checklist—a systematic approach he employs to ensure successful client interactions and project outcomes. This checklist includes:

1. Hospitality and Initial Impressions: David assesses how potential clients treat him from the first interaction. A lack of basic hospitality, such as offering water, is a significant red flag.

   "If you're not even offered a glass of water, that's a major red flag." [27:27]

2. Interpersonal Dynamics: Observing how clients interact with each other, especially in joint households, helps David gauge potential challenges.

3. Employment and Stability: He prefers clients who are professionally stable or actively engaged in meaningful activities, ensuring they have the capacity to manage the project's demands.

4. Bandwidth and Commitment: Evaluating whether clients have the necessary resources and time to commit to the design process is crucial, as this journey can be fraught with obstacles.

5. Personal Compatibility: Building meaningful connections ensures more effective collaborations and successful project outcomes.

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Navigating Industry Challenges

The discussion also touches upon contemporary challenges in the interior design industry, such as economic uncertainties, tariffs, and shifts in consumer confidence. David shares his strategies for managing these issues, emphasizing the need for adaptability and resilience.

At [48:36], David remarks:

"It's about mixing high and low. Using precious and accessible items to create a balanced and magical design that resonates with clients."

He believes that blending high-end and affordable elements can create timeless and appealing designs that withstand market fluctuations.

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Future Endeavors and Passion for Design

David concludes the conversation by expressing his excitement for upcoming projects, including new collections with Hickory Chair and Kravet. His passion for design and commitment to excellence remain unwavering, driving him to continually evolve his practice.

At [39:58], David affirms:

"I love what I do. I love being creative and serving others. I believe God put me here to leave things a little nicer than when I found it."

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Notable Quotes

• "If you're serious about being successful, you need to stop." – [16:12]
• "Staying in your own lane and being honest about what you don't know is crucial." – [18:27]
• "I think it’s really important to give back." – [35:56]
• "It's about mixing high and low. That's the art of design." – [48:36]

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive look into David Phoenix's philosophy on interior design, business practices, and personal growth. Listeners gain valuable insights into the meticulous strategies behind his successful career and the resilience that has defined his journey. Whether you're an aspiring designer or a seasoned professional, David Phoenix's experiences and advice provide a wealth of knowledge on navigating the complexities of the design industry with integrity and passion.

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Connect with Business of Home

For more engaging conversations and insights into the interior design industry, visit Business of Home to sign up for newsletters, browse job listings, and join the BoH Insider community for exclusive access to workshops and a free print subscription.

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to capture the essence of the conversation between Dennis Scully and David Phoenix. All timestamps correspond to the provided transcript sections.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer David Phoenix. David had a rocky youth. He left home at a young age and struggled with addiction. But once he settled into sobriety and pursued design, he's had a charmed career working with celebrities like Arnold Schwartz, Schwarzenegger and Rob Lowe, his work gracing the COVID of Architectural Digest several times and lines with Hickory Chair and Kravet. I spoke with David about why it pays to be honest about what you don't know, the ideal number of employees in a design firm, and why he has it written into his contract that he installs in Solitude Foreign this podcast is sponsored by Ernesta Lay the foundation to a beautiful home with Ernesta's high quality custom size rugs featuring an array of refined colors and patterns. Ernesta's custom size rugs are made to fit every space and arrive in only two to four weeks. And with Ernesto's exclusive trade member benefits you can get dedicated Support, free unlimited 12x12 samples and exclusive discounts to help achieve your clients design goals. To learn more about Ernesto's trade program, visit ernesta.com boh this podcast is also sponsored by Krypton Designers Looking for a premier domestic upholstery vendor that offers concierge service, complementary crypton fabric samples and dedicated project assistants are invited to explore Row Furniture's exceptional trade program. Customize your perfect piece with crypton fabrics in an array of stunning colors and styles, seamlessly blending beauty, durability and comfort. With Rowe's trade program, you can anticipate a truly stress free experience. Each piece of furniture is meticulously hand inspected and photos of your customized orders are sent before shipping, ensuring you stay informed without any hassle. And pricing includes freight to your receiver, simplifying the ordering process. For more information about the program, visit rowfurniture.com join and now on with the show. The start of your career.

[Barry Diller]

The early days of having a mentor. Barry Diller and Maria Shriver comes up early in the conversation. Tell us this story as a way in to better understand you.

[David Phoenix]

David oh God, I think it's going to take more than that. I'm still trying to understand me. Well I was. Listen I had a lot of different jobs and design related industry, you know, experiences, showrooms, et cetera and I had lost my job in the early 90s and I was taking care of a friend who was staying with Barry and he had AIDS at the time and was clearly not going to make it. And it was a very scary time. I was in my 20s and, you know, all my friends were passing away around me, and I used to go every day to visit him. I was just trying to figure life out on my own, my early 20s, and I was just really scared. And anyway, he passed away and Barry had said to me, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I think. I don't know. I'm looking at all your classifieds every day and trying to get a few leads, but I'm not sure this and that. And he was, you know, very intimidating guy, and I just was, you know. And he was at the time buying. Trying to buy Paramount Pictures, and he was, you know, outbid by Sumner Redstone, but that was all going on at that time.

[Barry Diller]

And where was he at QVC at the time?

[David Phoenix]

He was kind of. He was working for, I think, John Malone, was at a cable company out in Denver, I think. And he had, you know, his hands in a lot of things. And so he said, why don't you go down there and then maybe they'll find something for you to do. And so I got all dressed up and I went down and was so excited. I thought this was my big break. And I got there and it was a sea of cubicles, and the guy really didn't know what I was going to do, and I didn't know what I was going to do. And I was just like, what are we doing? So later on, he said, hey, how did your meeting go? And I said, oh. I said, there was this place full of cubicles. And he said, well, oh. He said, really? I said, yeah. He goes, well, what did you think you were going to do there? And I said, well, I thought I was going to be on television to sell product. He laughed and he goes, well, have you ever been on tv? And I said, well, no. He said, well, why would you think you'd be on TV now? I said, well, I just thought maybe just you own the place. Maybe you could pull some strings, turn the cameras on. I don't know.

[Barry Diller]

Just thought you were that powerful that you just put me in front of the TV cameras. Sure.

[David Phoenix]

And he laughed and he said, well, what is your passion? What are you passionate about? And I was thinking, oh, boy, I've got a really pull a rabbit out of a hat here. Quickly. And I said, well, you know, I said, think big and you'll be big. So I said, well, I'm going to become an interior designer. And he said, is that it? And I said, yes, it is. I said, that's what I want to do. I said, I love beautiful things and I love putting them together. And I have a great eye, and I think I have a career in this. I think I could make a career of this. He said, okay. And he pushed a button on his desk and two people came in with a notebook and he needs a resale number. What's the name of your company? David? I said, it goes David Phoenix. Boom. Next thing, I was incorporated. I had a resale number of rapid speed. So he's like, well, now what? And I said, well, I said, maybe I could recover some of your furniture. It's a little shabby. It really wasn't. But I just thought I had to think of something, right? And okay, great. It was all white. I figured I couldn't screw it up. White's, you know, could slip cover it. I had a slipcover business on the side when I worked at Purdue. And off I went to the design center where I had worked previously. I worked at Brunswig as a sample librarian in my, you know, teens, early 20s.

[Barry Diller]

In your wayward youth, which we'll talk about.

[David Phoenix]

You know, it's funny, when I got the gig at Kravet, I said, you know, I have to really make an amends to you, Carrie and Lisa. I said, I was so hungover when I worked here. I used to UPS the samples home to my house because I could never put them away by 9 o'clock and I'd bring them back in little batches. So they laughed and they said, oh, well, we forgive you for that. I was like, well, anyway, they didn't own Brunchwood at the time, but obviously.

[Barry Diller]

They didn't own the company at the time. Exactly.

[David Phoenix]

So anyway, that's how I started. So I figured I couldn't screw this up. I knew where the fabric where I knew the design center inside and out. So I went down there and I got two huge bags of white fabric because I thought, I can't screw this up. I've got to have enough options. What if I get there and I don't have the right hue of white or cream or whatever? So then I was going down the escalator, proud as a peacock. I had all my selections all bundled together. And Maria was coming up the other one, and she said, oh, hi, I called you at that shop, but you're not there anymore. I said, well, no, I have my own business. I said, I'm here pulling fabrics for A client. And she said, oh, wow, really? And I said, yes. She said, well, okay. Well, give me your card. And I said, well, you know, I left the house today without any cards. I'm sorry. And she said, well, write your number down. I said, okay. So I wrote my number down. And as I'm writing my number down, she dumped the bags looking. She goes, what? I said, don't mess up my schemes. And she said, schemes? She said, everything here is white. I said, well, this person, he likes white. She goes, oh, it's for a man. I said, yes. She said, oh, well, who? And I said, oh, I can't really tell you. I said, he's a real hothead. I said, I just don't want to get him upset. I said, very private. She said, well, you're going to tell me before you leave. So I said who it was for. And she said, well, okay, I'll see you later. And so she called Barry from her car after she left me about five minutes later as I was on my way to see him. And she said, hey, I just ran into your designer at the design center. He said, oh, David, yes. And she said, do you. Have you seen any of his work? He said, oh, no, no, I haven't. And does he have a portfolio? And he said, well, I don't believe he does. And she said, oh, well, why would you hire him? You could hire anyone you want. He said, well, truth be told, I watched him take care of his best friend. A mutual friend we have. I've known him socially. He showed up every day for two years taking care of his best friend, Steve. And he has great character and do what you want. So I pulled up, he was there. He said, thanks for the heads up on the phone call.

[Barry Diller]

Thanks for letting me know Maria Shriver is going to be calling me.

[David Phoenix]

I said, you know, she scares me more than you do. I said, you're intimidating, but she's next level. And he laughed. And he said, well, she's going to call you. I said, oh, right. No, I don't think so. He said, oh, no, she's going to call you. And he said, when she does, tell her you're not available. I said, oh, I can't do that. And he said, yeah, you can. He goes, just trust me on that. He said, you'll thank me later. I said, okay. And so I was at home and the phone happened to ring and the machine picked up and I picked up. I said, hi. She said, oh, I was wondering if you could come over tomorrow. I want to look at that furniture with you and discuss some things. And Arnold would like to talk to you too. And I said, oh. I said tomorrow? I couldn't possibly. I said I'm busy. I said I could do it next week. She said next week. So she said, oh God, she was annoyed. She wrote down the date and the time and da da, da, da. And so then she hung up the phone. She's talking to her brother and she said, hey, you just bought a house. I've got this designer coming over next Thursday. You should call him now. He's very hard to get in with. He's going to do my place. Barry. He's working on Barry's place. He could do you. Maybe you should call him now. And he did. And I did his house. So it just was kind of, that's how I started my business. And it was not by careful planning or strategy or it was just kind of part right time, right place, part having the courage of my convictions and just kind of going for it.

[Barry Diller]

You had come out to LA at a young age with one of those sort of classic not much money in your pocket stories. Let's talk about that a little bit. I don't want to, I don't want to bring up bad memories but. But you were, you were a young kid.

[David Phoenix]

Yes, I was. I had left home at 15. I lived with another family for a little bit. I finished, barely finished school and I just felt different. No matter what I did, I didn't feel like I ever really belonged. And I bought a one way ticket to LA and it was 1984 and I thought, well, this is it. I used to watch this talk show in the 70s, Dinah Shore. And she had a white sectional and she had stars over and she could cook, she sang, she was dating Burt Reynolds, Sexiest man alive. At the time I thought I really need to be where she is and I want what she has so things will be better.

[Barry Diller]

Once I get and I can only.

[David Phoenix]

Be in Beverly Hills, things are just gonna be. I'll be skiing on Rainbow the whole way. So that was kind of like she was, I don't know, it was something where I guess I got lost in my head. And I was watching that and I think guess just to kind of escapism or daydream or whatever I used to do at the time. So it was helpful get through the day.

[Barry Diller]

So that pulled you out there. And tell me just a little bit about when you got to la. So you mentioned you had some earlier jobs.

[David Phoenix]

I worked at Brunswig, sample librarian. So I learned a lot about fabric there. And then I worked at Purdue when the two piers still owned it, and that was great. I learned about antiques. I learned about fabric, more fabric, and just had that kind of country French aesthetic. The different layering of the prints and the plaid and the antiques and accessorizing and the different items that they sold there, which was great. And I found out there that I was a good salesman, and I think that's essential if you're in design, you need to be able to sell your ideas. The first day of my job there, I sold a gentleman named Eamon Wardy. You know, he sold couture clothing. I sold him $26,000 worth of placemats and napkins, which in 1986.

[Barry Diller]

That's a lot of a lot.

[David Phoenix]

That's a lot. Of course, I was much younger then. I think he kind of liked me. He always had me deliver them.

[Barry Diller]

You were young and cute.

[David Phoenix]

Young and cute, yeah, sure. I used to deliver them over there. My little bow tie. Right. So I learned how to sell then from there. Now it's the late 80s, and I went to work for Ralph Lauren, often.

[Barry Diller]

Considered a great training ground for future designers and others.

[David Phoenix]

Yes, it was wonderful. Yeah. Mark Cunningham worked there when I worked there, and a lot of great people were there. So I had a nice little paper Rolodex of all my customers, and so I really, you know, got to know a lot of people there.

[Barry Diller]

Well. And was that useful and helpful to you when you're set up with your own firm not too many years later?

[David Phoenix]

It was helpful, yeah. I mean, I had a lot of good contacts for vendors and customers, and people would see me out and they'd like, hey, you used to work. I'm like, yeah, that was me. It was good. It was good.

[Barry Diller]

Well, it sounds like you had a lot of fun. It also sounded as though there was a time where the fun for you at least had to come to an end a little bit. Maybe some of the partying and the other side.

[David Phoenix]

Yeah, I definitely had a good time. I had a very short run of that, probably from about 16 to 22.

[Barry Diller]

Okay.

[David Phoenix]

So that definitely ran its course. In fact, tomorrow is my sobriety date. I'll have 36 years of sobriety tomorrow.

[Barry Diller]

Yeah, well, so in thinking about that, I mean, was there a rock bottom moment? Was there? I mean, you refer to somebody sort of coming along to help you through the storm. I mean, what happened for you?

[David Phoenix]

I just knew from my background and my family history that I could not sustain that. And you know, you kind of get, they say you're sick and tired of being sick and tired. And this guy that I met, Bill Burns early on kind of steered me in the right path. And Bill was great. And he said, if you're serious about being successful in this life, you need to stop. So that was kind of the light bulb for me. My aha moment. Working at Ralph Lauren was my first kind of real adult, sober job. So 89 to 94 is when I started my business. So it's a few years after. I mean, I was working. Yeah. So it wasn't just, you know, right away.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Barry Diller]

You get set up with your own firm by, by chance. You, you, you have these clients not, not fall into your lap necessarily, but you, you quickly get some.

[David Phoenix]

But they fell in your lap.

[Barry Diller]

They fell into your lap a little bit. And, and was it, were you just.

[Dennis Scully]

Off to the races after, after that?

[David Phoenix]

I was, I didn't really have a plan and I also didn't set out with any like, okay, I want to do this, this and this. I just, I did what was put in front of me. You know, I was somewhat insecure about not having accreditation or schooling for it. And I wonder, I felt, you know, I struggled with that because, you know, it's really easy. I mean even back then, now today, I think it's even more where in life where you've got so much on social media. Back then we didn't have the Internet, so it was just my inner voice comparing myself to this person or that designer or this other person or they're doing this and I'm not, or I'm doing this and they're not so. I think it's really important to stay in your own lane. And if you're passionate about something and you feel like you can do it, do it. I think there's nothing wrong with asking for help, which I was not good at, because to the point of having to prove myself, I always felt like that was a sign of weakness if I had to ask somebody for help. So, you know, obviously, you make mistakes, you learn from them. And for younger people, younger designers, I think it's essential that you ask for, you know, help. There's nothing wrong with it. And I say it all the time in big meetings now. I'm like, you know, I'm just seeing this for the first time. Let me think about that. I don't have any experience at that. Let me find out what the best way to go about that is. No one can fault you for that. And I think if you're honest and clear about that up front, people respect it. There's nothing worse than being in a meeting with somebody, oh, I've done everything, and I know everything. I mean, give me a break. That's not true. So I think that there's something healthy about that.

[Barry Diller]

Well, I mean, remarkably. I mean, we mentioned the Maria Shriver connection, which would ultimately become the Governor Schwarzenegger connection. And if I remember, you worked with the mayor of LA as well.

[David Phoenix]

I did. I did. I was working for his, I guess, fiance at the time, Nancy Daily, and I did a few projects for her, and then she married Mary Reardon, and they moved in together. So we did another project. And then she was just really a phenomenal person. Incredible. I really miss her. I get choked up when I think about her. She passed away a few years back. We had cancer at the same time. She didn't make it. And she was just really, really another person that I learned a lot from, really. She taught me about just, you know, just was maternal, but yet just really wise. And when she hired me, she said, I just want to be very clear with you. I never want to go shopping with you. I was like, you don't. Because other clients wouldn't want to see every little thing at the time. And I was like, oh, God. I said, that made me nervous. I was like, okay. She goes, show me three things. If I can't pick from those three things, we'll talk. Or if it's over $75,000, then I'll go look at it. Otherwise, I don't care. I want to. Just.

[Barry Diller]

Don't bother me.

[David Phoenix]

Yeah, well, just show me what you want to do. And that's why I'm hiring you. That's why I'm hiring you. And so it really gave me a lot of confidence and also it allowed me to do my best work and to really present what I felt was the right for the project. And so that was a big turning point for me.

[Barry Diller]

Well, I was curious to hear you talk about what you thought were meaningful turning points, meaningful milestones in your career. I mean, some of the big name clients, obviously we've talked about, I don't know if the Rob Lowe Architectural Digest cover, if that was a big moment.

[David Phoenix]

You tell me that was Paige Rentz's last cover. And I didn't know it at the time, but we were supposed to be in the Hollywood issue and I guess his publicist was talking to ad people and, you know, didn't like that he wasn't going to be on the COVID somebody else was and pitched a fit. And so then one thing led to another and I got an email or call from Paige's assistant saying she wants to have tea with you when she's in la. So I went and had tea with her and she's like. And talk about intimidating. I mean, I had met her before and she's always very nice to me. And she said, no movie star is going to tell me how to print my magazine. I said, oh. I said, noted. I said, noted. No problem. So I'm like, I don't know if she thought I was in cahoots with the publicist or whatever, but I was just like, okay. So then I said, well, okay. So I thought I'd leave it alone. I was not going to poke the bear anymore on that. I said, what if we look a bit. Would you like to see another project I'm working on? She goes, absolutely. So I showed her this project and we're flipping through it and it was very. It was beautiful, but it was all very beige. And so she's like, that is beautiful, David. She slammed it. She goes, but I'm not printing a beige magazine either. I said, well, there are pops of color in there, so there's got. They have very important art. And so she laughed. And then this. We were sitting in the restaurant and somebody very well known recognized her and she said, oh, God, under breath. And they were coming towards us. And she said, oh, God. She goes, I'm cooked now. And so anyway, the lady. Oh my God, Paige, you didn't tell me you're in town. Oh my God, I'd love to talk to you. Oh my God, here's my number. Throwing herself at her and she's like, oh, yes, of course I'll call you. And then of course, it was just very funny to see her handle that. But anyway. Anyway. But she was great. I really admire her. And she told me that she asked me how many people I had in the office. I said five. And she said, billy Baldwin told me five is the perfect number.

[Barry Diller]

Well, there you go.

[David Phoenix]

So I was like, all right, well, five it is. Don't get it to six.

[Barry Diller]

I will never deviate from that number.

[David Phoenix]

Of course. I said, is that including me or.

[Barry Diller]

Yeah, keep it lean.

[David Phoenix]

That was a big moment. Of course. It's like getting an Oscar in the design industry felt validated after all that.

[Barry Diller]

Time and back in the day. And not that this was all that many years ago, but I mean, we always talk about when magazines were at their peak or the reach and influence of Shelter magazines. Right.

[Dennis Scully]

That.

[Barry Diller]

That you'd be on the COVID of Architectural Digest. And would people be calling? Would you have clients waiting for years after that or was there not that huge impact for you?

[David Phoenix]

I just feel like. I think it's nice to be noticed for your work, but I wouldn't rely on it for the phones ringing off the hook. I mean, I think it's a validation showing that you're credible. But you get a lot of phone calls like, what color paint did you use? Or where did you buy that fabric? Or can I buy that coffee table from you? Or whatnot. So, you know, I always shied away from publishing any of my work. And a lot of my clients won't let me photograph. So I can't because of whether it's art collection or they don't want to have their stuff out there. So it's hard to show all my work. But I think that it's nice to get the validation from our industry, whether it's through online or Shelter magazine back in the day. But I never really did this to be famous or publicity hungry or aggressive that way. To me, it was a turn off.

[Barry Diller]

What's the turnoff?

[David Phoenix]

For me, I think it should happen organically. I think if you target, I would. I never really sought it and I probably should be a little bit better at it, but promoting myself. But I feel like it should be a little bit more organic. I like to meet people and have a meaningful connection with, whether it's architects or real estate people or clients or friends of clients. And I think that's how I've gotten most of my work.

[Barry Diller]

Yeah, well. And is part of wanting to spend time with people. Is that also you wanting to see if you really want to work with them?

[David Phoenix]

Oh, yeah, well, that's a whole other thing. I have my checklist when I go into an interview.

[Barry Diller]

Really? Tell me more.

[David Phoenix]

Well, first kiss of death, if you're not even offered a glass of water, that you're way down in points, then number one.

[Barry Diller]

Okay, okay. So hospitality key.

[David Phoenix]

Then I watch how they, if it's a husband and wife, how they talk to each other if there's a fight in the interview. Another big no, no.

[Barry Diller]

Right, right.

[David Phoenix]

Then if they don't have a job, your job is going to become their job, most likely. And some people don't have jobs, but they're active with whatever charity they have a cause or they're doing something other than sitting, watching the phone to, with your phone call. So that's a big thing. Yeah, spending time with people and seeing do they have the bandwidth for this? And I always say the road of design is full of potholes. You're going to hit one or two or three, and it's just temporary.

[Barry Diller]

Tell me some of the potholes for you. So here you are, as you've acknowledged, this untrained interior designer finding his own way in the world without having worked for some big firm for a time. What have been some of the rough road spots for you and how have you gotten through some of the difficult.

[David Phoenix]

Times hiring the right people? I think somebody told me once that a bad employee could cost you four times their salary, which I've unfortunately experienced.

[Barry Diller]

I have proven that model.

[David Phoenix]

I've had that more than once. More than once. So that's happened because it's like a small family, you know, if your office is only five people, it's, you know, it's a small group. Everyone has their role and they, everyone's got to get along. And my, I have to just tell the story. I had interviewed somebody. So the candidate comes in, very well dressed, fresh out of design school, recommended by a very good vendor. So I thought, you know, okay, great. First thing, I brought the senior person he'd be working under. She interviewed him. So we kind of, you know, got busy. And then about a week go by, you know, goes by 10 days maybe. And I said, hey, what do you think of that candidate? And she said, I would endorse that. I think we need the help and let's, let's go forward with it. Great, no problem. So I emailed him and I said, let's talk tomorrow at 10:00 if that's okay. Yes. I called three times. Went right to voicemail. Called me back. He goes, I didn't have your number on my phone. I thought it was spam. I said, okay, I get it. No problem. I said, listen, instead of talking on the phone, do you want to come in and we can just have a quick. He goes, I'm free after 2:30. I said, perfect. No problem. So he shows up right on time, kind of casually, completely dressed, differently than the first interview. Not that I was judging him on his, you know, attire, but it was very casual. Like, you know, very casual. And he was very uptight in the interview. Second time, he was very, you know, just tense. And I said, hey. I said, you know, you seem like you're a little preoccupied. I said, is everything okay? He goes, the commute. I said, well, you live two exits north of Palm Beach. I said, somebody else work lives there too. It's 20 minutes. Not that bad, you know. Well, I do CrossFit from 11:00am to 1. I said, oh. I said, two hours of CrossFit from 11am to one. I said, well. And the guy was like 40 pounds wet. I mean, he was just like, you know, this little thin guy. I said, what do you do for two hours at CrossFit? He goes, well, we.

[Barry Diller]

It's a lot of tires that turn over.

[David Phoenix]

We work out for an hour. And then he goes like this hands. He just like, very Zen. He goes, then we socialize and meditate for an hour. His voice got very calm and low. I said, okay. I said, well, you know, most of America works out in the morning or after work. Have you thought about that? Oh, no. My group's too important to me. So here I am in this interview. I'm like, what is going on? So then, of course, I'm getting a text message from the girl in the next room saying, something's going wrong here. I was like, no kidding. So anyway, he declined the. The offer.

[Barry Diller]

It was going to interfere with his two hours of CrossFit.

[David Phoenix]

Yeah, I know. I mean, so it's really hard to find good people. That's the moral of the story.

[Barry Diller]

Exactly. It's so interesting that you say that because we went through an intense period where so many people were leaving firms that they were working for, going out on their own.

[Dennis Scully]

It was so hard to find people.

[David Phoenix]

In Covid too, right?

[Barry Diller]

Yes, exactly. And Covid just blew the world up in so many ways. And people were moving all over the place. And when did you decide to move to Florida and pack up everything?

[David Phoenix]

I decided during COVID I'd done some work down here. I did the showcase house here in 2018, the Kips Bay, which I love doing. And I also did it in New York in 2015 and that was really a lot of fun. And I had some friends here and I actually started to get some work here and I thought about opening an office here. And then Covid hit. I was home. You know, you couldn't, everyone was furloughed. You couldn't go in your office. I thought my accountant said, why don't you move to Palm Beach? I was like, would you let me do that? And he goes, yeah, you'll never have this opportunity again. And so I drove across country and I found an office and one thing led to another and here I am.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Ernesta. Elevate your clients homes and your business with Ernesta's custom size rugs. From soft 100% New Zealand wool and lattice pattern handmade styles to UV protected outdoor rugs and playful family friendly options. Ernesta's new spring arrivals are available and ready to deliver in as little as two to four weeks. Join Ernesta's trade program today to explore all of these new arrivals and more. Apply [e-mail] BOH that's ernesta.com BOH and now back to the show.

[Barry Diller]

And what was the big motivator to move to Palm Beach?

[David Phoenix]

Well, I thought it was. I felt like I was on vacation every day when I was here during the showcase house. And I also felt like people could afford me here, you know, and it's hard to find an ugly house in Palm Beach. When I did the showcase house here, I was, funny story. Just plug Kips Bay for a minute. I was at a shop on Worth Avenue, Mary Mahoney. And she allowed me to borrow some things for some accessories. So she was having a trunk show next door and she said, oh, I want to take you in to meet all the ladies. You can tell them about Kips Bay. I said, great. And I've got my two big shopping bags and I go in there and it was all just like really beautiful jewelry and it was all out on tables and not locked up. And so they had a security guard at the door. So I put my bags down and I start shaking hands, saying hello and looking at the jewels. So then I go pick up the bags. I said goodbye. I said, I get to get back over because I've got a photo shoot in the morning. Mary, I said, please come. And she Said, okay, great. And so the security. What I thought was the security guard said, excuse me, I need to speak with you very serious. I said, oh, God. I said, I didn't touch anything. Do you want to go through my bags? She goes, no, I overheard you talking about the Kips Bay showcase house. She said, I. I am sergeant for the Palm beach police force, and I went to Kips Bay every day in the Bronx, my sister and I, and it changed my life.

[Barry Diller]

Oh. So she had. She had grown up going to Kips Bay in the Bronx.

[David Phoenix]

And she said, you know, thank you. She's like, I was raised by a single parent, and we went every day after school. And she said, it's people like you that raise money for us, that we could do that. So, of course, I'm crying now. I cried everything. And so I was like, oh, my God. I said, you're coming to the party. So she came to the party with her. She goes, can I bring my sister? I said, of course. So they were my guests. So finally, it was all about this Michelle, who was the police sergeant, Policewoman of the year. So, you know, Daniel Quintana was there n. Ellie Coleman in my room, you know, Jim Druckman. But I still stay in touch with her.

[Barry Diller]

Oh.

[David Phoenix]

And. But I just think that it's one of my favorite things, the Kips Bay, what they do. And it just really. It was so touching that she came up and shared that with me. So I think it's important to give back.

[Barry Diller]

Well, and so many people in the show house and all of that. You can get lost in what Kips Bay is really about and the incredible work that it does and the impact that it has on these young.

[David Phoenix]

Yeah. I mean, I just think of myself as a kid and what a difference that would have made if I had, you know, Kips Bay to go to or whatever. So I think it's. I don't know, it struck home. So I thought I'd share that because it was such a big deal.

[Barry Diller]

No, no, I appreciate that so much. And I was. I was really wondering, David, which of the many subjects we could get onto that would make you ultimately cry in the interview? And I mean.

[David Phoenix]

Well, I mean, I cry at a cat food commercial, so you don't have to worry about making me cry.

[Barry Diller]

This was unexpected. I didn't even see this one coming.

[David Phoenix]

So, I mean, this is good.

[Dennis Scully]

This is good.

[Barry Diller]

I mean, because you glossed over earlier in a story. Oh, yeah. We had cancer together.

[David Phoenix]

You said earlier. Well, that was another one. Oh, yeah.

[Barry Diller]

You know, we had cancer together.

[David Phoenix]

That was a plot hole for sure. That was definitely where I didn't think I was going to make it. And they said I. They didn't know if I was. And I was just, you know, and that was definitely just so hard too. You just never, you know, I just. Life is not easy.

[Barry Diller]

How long ago was that?

[David Phoenix]

I think it's like 12 years ago, maybe 13 years ago. And yeah, it was stage four cancer. And it was really a terrible time for me. I was in a long term relationship that had ended and then I got cancer and it was just, you know, a lot of people stuck by me client wise. But it was definitely challenging to work and to be, you know, that sick and look sick. I looked. I remember once going into the design center and somebody I knew asked if I had an account with the company and I was like, I burst into tears at the sample desk and I was like, I need to come back. So I was just unrecognized. I had no hair.

[Barry Diller]

Because they didn't recognize who you were.

[David Phoenix]

No, they didn't. No, they didn't. But there's a silver lining to everything. I always tell people, clients and people that I work with, I like to collaborate. I think when everyone is collaborative, you have a better result at the finish line. It's not about any one person. It's about the whole team. You know, listen, it's not been easy, but I've had a lot. I've had a great life. If it ended tomorrow, I've had a great run. I love what I do. I love beautiful things. I love, you know, designing furniture. I love working, you know, with my clients. I love being creative and I love just being of service to others. I think God put me here to leave things a little nicer than when I found it. Yeah.

[Barry Diller]

So you mentioned that you like designing furniture and you've got a collection with hickory chair that you've had for a while. Tell me how that came to be and tell me how you think about the licensing deals that you have relative to your overall business, what they mean to you.

[David Phoenix]

Well, it's definitely, you know, it's a whole business. It's not something you just can ease into. You know, I'm getting ready for a big launch, about 36 new pieces. And it's different than doing a one off piece for a client. Number one. Number two, I want it to sell because it's. I'm not doing it just to say, oh, I have a line of furniture. I really want it to be successful. I'm investing in it as well as them. And so they're careful about their selections of what they want in the line and I'm very cautious, but yet I want to provide beautiful pieces that a they don't have and that sometimes pushes the envelope at the factory. Can they make this? It's a detail or something which they always can because they're so good. They figure it out. But we also, you know, they're very good at, you know, my design. They'll overlay their standards onto it on how it's going to be built, production, furniture wise. And it's a, it's a great collaboration. I love working with them. Now that the Shufords own it. You know, Alex usually comes to my product reviews or, you know, he's always available if I want to run ideas by him. And he's very smart, very hands on.

[Barry Diller]

Is he a tough critic? Does he come in and say, David, what were you thinking here? What is this chair?

[David Phoenix]

He will cut to the chase really quick, that's going to be a big seller. Or he'll be like, I don't know about this, David, maybe we should change this. Or that table's going to rock a little bit. Maybe we should put something underneath it or reinforce. So he cuts to the chase. Not a lot of sugar coating with him, which is I really like. So I enjoy it. I like going to High Point. I love seeing people come through. I love helping people. I love listening to them. What are they looking for, what do they need? And so it's great. But we're planning for spring of 26.

[Barry Diller]

Right now, this big new collection that you're talking about.

[David Phoenix]

Yeah. To make it, get it here, approve it, sit in the prototype, tweak it, get it all ready and then photograph it before market. It takes a lot of effort, you know, so we can go to market with, you know, content.

[Barry Diller]

Yeah, no, no, it's a, it's, it's a great reminder of how long that whole process takes before it, before it shows up in High Point. And these days we've got the added wrinkle of the tariff conversation and wondering what that, what that landing price will be for those pieces of furniture.

[David Phoenix]

Well, luckily most of our pieces are made in hickory. Obviously we've got some parts that come from overseas, some pieces are imports and you know, it's just really a big can of uncertainty really. I mean, I had a client call the other day with regards to ground up project and the conversation of tariff came up because of they were putting a real shake roof on the house. And the shake roof comes from Canada.

[Barry Diller]

Comes from Canada.

[David Phoenix]

25%. I mean, it was almost a $500,000 roof. And then 25% on top of that for a tariff that is unknown. And it also gives the guy selling the roof to you, he might just say, I'm going to mark it up anyway because it's going to be a tariff. Maybe. So you've got that kind of thing going on too. And fear, fear. No one knows. Oh, the tariff. The tariff is coming. It does create fear in the market and consumers, vendors. How do you run your business and have that conversation always come up?

[Barry Diller]

Exactly. And also the Wall Street Journal has been reporting a lot recently of this drop in consumer confidence. The CEO of Delta Airlines came out and said he's worried that clients are much less eager to book flights. And lots of people are seeing suddenly people pulling back on their spending. Do your well to do clients. Is it seeing the stock market dropping by hundreds of points every day that makes people particularly nervous? And does that really impact their decision making, their willingness to move forward on things?

[David Phoenix]

I think yes and no. I mean, I think it depends on the person. I mean, some people have certain news channels playing 247 even while they're sleeping, and that's what they're drinking, I think. And it just is hard. Other people. I was with a finance guy all day yesterday and the day before up in New York and he didn't seem to be phased by it. So he's moving forward no matter what. Cause he'll make the money and whatever, it's going to work out. So I thought that was refreshing. But I was in a couple showrooms and I would say, hey, how's business? Oh, you know, not that busy. Not that busy right now. Or some people are, some people aren't. Or some people say, oh, I'm glad to see people are out and coming in. So I don't. I think everyone has a different story.

[Barry Diller]

But your feeling in general is it's not an ideal situation, it's not an ideal environment.

[David Phoenix]

No, there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of fear I feel. Yeah.

[Barry Diller]

Well, so what are you most excited about that's coming up for you?

[David Phoenix]

So I'm excited about. Well, definitely my hickory chair collection. I'm excited about that. I'm very excited about my kravit collection called the Treasure Coast.

[Barry Diller]

Oh, okay.

[David Phoenix]

I named it the Treasure Coast. I'm going to be honest here. I've got to be full disclosure. We were getting ready to print the whole presentation And Lori Salmore called me. She goes, I need a title right now. I need the title this morning. I'm printing it. And she was relentless with me. So I was like, oh, God, I don't know what to name this. And I had thrown several ideas out, and she didn't like any of them. And so I was getting dressed, ready to head to the office, and all of a sudden the news came on, and the weather lady gets. She goes, it's going to be hot on the Treasure coast in Florida. I said, that's it.

[Barry Diller]

That is it.

[David Phoenix]

So I said, treasure Coast. So she's like, okay. So I'm in the presentation at Kravit with Scott Kravit. And he goes, david, I love this name, Treasure Coast. How did you come up with that? I said, scott, it just came to me one morning.

[Barry Diller]

I said, yes. Well, I can't wait to see it. And when will we be seeing that?

[David Phoenix]

Well, it could be as soon as this fall wall covering in fabric. I'm very excited about that. I love textiles. That's where I started. I'm just excited about everything, really. I mean, there's nothing. I mean, I'm not like, oh, God, I got to work on that project again, you know?

[Barry Diller]

Right.

[David Phoenix]

So I don't have that. I really don't.

[Barry Diller]

And is the, Is the ever rising cost of our. All the materials in our industry, is that. Is that challenging for you in any way?

[David Phoenix]

Well, back in the, you know, I mean, now, like, for a long time, $1,000 a square foot to build a house was super high end. Now you're 15 to 2, 1500 to 2000 minimum. And that's to do the finishes that we want to do in this market. I mean, certain parts of the country, you could come in under 1000 for sure, but here, that's what you're going to look at.

[Barry Diller]

And does that give some people pause or.

[David Phoenix]

I don't know. I think here in Palm Beach, I think people have probably worked with a designer before. Most likely it's a second home, maybe, or they're homesteaded here. So they don't, you know, it's not like, oh, here I have a lot of time and a lot of money. Please spend both of them. But I think that there is a certain, you know, people are respectful of that, but they are willing to. They want good design. Is where I'm trying to. What I'm trying to say.

[Barry Diller]

Yeah, no, no. I worry that our industry is getting pretty expensive, and I. I don't want it to turn, turn People away.

[David Phoenix]

It is, I think that, listen, it's about mixing high, low Timex and Rolex. That's how I look at it. You know, if you have a Faberge egg, you can buy a Crate and Barrel table. They're both going to look good. If everything is precious, then nothing's precious. I think you need to. That's the art of design is really to, you know, I mean, I've got this really. I'm looking at this great 17th century chest I have, and I have a basket I bought at Target with, filled with orchids on it and they both look. It looks good. That's really the magic that happens when you, you know, you hire whoever you hire. You have the house, you have these beautiful things. People are paying me to curate all that. At the end of the day, yes, you're buying things along, you're shopping and you're doing and you're specifying. But at the end of the day, when the rubber hits the road, you put it all together and that's when the magic takes place. When they come in and they say, oh, my God. Wow. And by the way, I have a clause in my contract that I install in solitude.

[Barry Diller]

Is that right?

[David Phoenix]

100% not allowed. Not allowed on the site till it's finished. That doesn't mean you can stay in the guest house. That is just like not allowed at all. I had a big job that didn't have a problem with the fee, which I, you know, and how my fee and markup. No problem number. And I was on a conference zoom call with him and his lawyer because now I just, David, I just have a hard time with this solitude thing. We want to be there and experience. I said, forget it, I will not do the job. I said, what are you going to do when you're just going to be in the way? And I said, you're going to say, oh, my God, what if a leg breaks on something? What if something falls? What if, what if. What if I decide to put the chair in this corner instead of that corner? I don't need to negotiate. I said, you come in when it's done. Because people focus on what's not done more than what's done. You know, if you're missing something or you know, because stuff happens, stuff's delayed or you think it's going to be here and then the truck gets a flat tire or, you know, stuff happens. You know, they don't need to know all that. They just need to know it's all done.

[Barry Diller]

Yes. And they'll be so happy when they show up and it's all done. You hope that's the. That's the dream. Okay. Well, I, I so appreciate you making the time and I'm thrilled to get to talk to you. I look forward to seeing you at High Point very soon and we'll have lunch. But really, thank you so much for your time. I'm grateful.

[David Phoenix]

Well, it was great. It was a pleasure and look forward to seeing you soon.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scott. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.