Inside Nate Berkus' three decades of success

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: Inside Nate Berkus' Three Decades of Success

Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Nate Berkus
Date: October 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Dennis Scully sits down with renowned interior designer Nate Berkus to chart his evolution from auction house intern to industry tastemaker and celebrated media personality. They explore Berkus' passion for antiques and the secondary market, his business philosophies, his approach to social media and branding, and—most notably—what sustains his love for the hands-on work of interior design after thirty years of success. The conversation is lively, candid, and rich with practical anecdotes and reflective insights relevant to both veteran and emerging designers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Career and Auction House Influence

• Origin Story: Berkus recaps his formative years as an intern (then employee) at Leslie Hindman's auction house in Chicago (03:11).
  • “We call it the Gucci loafer, no dental insurance era... we thought we were really fancy, and we had little navy jackets with gold buttons...” — Nate Berkus [03:32]
• Lessons from Auctions: He credits this experience for shaping his design ethics and sourcing habits:
  • Preference for vintage, antiques, and pieces with “real” value over reproductions.
  • “I didn't want to be the king of reproductions. I didn't want to rely on furniture showrooms primarily for sourcing. I wanted to be at auctions.” [05:12]

2. The Thrill of the Hunt (and Mistakes Made)

• Addiction to Auctions: Candidly acknowledges his auction “addiction,” sharing both triumphs and expensive mistakes. Humorously discusses his husband Jeremiah Brent's intervention attempts (07:11–10:30).

  • “I have always loved and was raised to love multi dealer antiques malls...my mother trained me like a little sort of pony to go retrieve the key...” [09:04]

• Why Auctions Matter:

  • Values auctions as the truest market for “what anyone is willing to pay at that moment” (09:14).
  • Enjoys the hunt, not deterred by occasional missteps (e.g., bad diamond earrings).

• Natural Dealer:

  • Runs a side business selling finds on Cherish, 1stDibs, and has a Bergdorf Goodman pop-up for luxury vintage home goods.
  • “Nothing makes me happier than bringing boats of things to the real real...I lie when some of Jeremiah's things make it into my consignment.” [10:48–12:10]

3. Shifting Trends in Antiques and Taste

• Market Commentary:
  • French and Italian mid-century pieces are no longer bargains; he sees value in Swedish furniture, ‘brown furniture’ (classic English and Victorian pieces), but less appeal in American antiques (12:27–15:54).
  • “I've never specked one piece in 30 years of doing design work.” —Nate on formal American antique furniture [15:21]
• Nostalgia & Value:
  • Still finds “deals to be had,” especially in under-the-radar local auctions.

4. Personal Influences: Family and Design Upbringing

• Mother’s Influence:

  • Recaps his mother’s early days in design and her appearances on HGTV—both humorous and formative for Nate (16:24–18:57).
  • “Jeremiah, as a young gay guy in Modesto, California, used to watch my mother on that show and get ideas...It planted the seed for him.” [19:09]

• Lessons Learned:

  • While his mother modeled entrepreneurial risk-taking, her chaotic bookkeeping taught Nate what not to do in business (20:04–20:56).

5. Starting His Firm and Core Philosophy

• Desire for Independence:
  • Motivated to work for himself: “I knew that I didn’t want to answer to people...I really knew I wanted to be my own boss.” [21:26]
• Sensitivity to Clients:
  • Considers his ability to intuit clients’ aspirations the key to lasting interiors: “I could understand how people wanted to be perceived in their spaces. And that has taken me pretty far.” [22:30–23:52]
• Anti-Trend Stance:
  • “I'm vehemently anti trend because of that...I don't want a timestamp on any of the rooms that we do.” [23:59]

6. What Makes the ‘Nate Berkus Look’

• Timeless Over Trendy:
  • Uses antique/vintage wherever possible, loves patina, but not afraid to reupholster or reconstruct when needed (26:26).
• Collector’s Confidence:
  • “I can sell a Maria peret steel table 50 times. I'm fully confident in her body of work and how it will sit with new things that it will retain its value if not go up.” [27:45]

7. Oprah, TV, and Navigating Fame

• Break on Oprah:

  • Shares his moment of opportunity with Oprah’s producers, early lessons in business, and commitment to protecting both Oprah's and his own brand (28:25–35:23).

• Authenticity in Branding:

  • Distinguishes between authenticity and performative persona; discusses the challenge of staying true in the influencer era (35:23–37:52).
  • “You have to use your social media as almost your own magazine...My way is you cannot take every deal.”

8. Business Model and Client Work

• Billing Structure:
  • Firm uses net cost plus 30%, with hourly rates depending on seniority—doesn’t believe in flat fees except in rare, highly specific cases (46:53–48:09).
• Project Selection:
  • Open to diverse budgets if the project is exciting; not a firm with a single “signature look.” [48:23–50:59]
• Why Stay in the Trenches:
  • Despite “escape hatch” opportunities, loves the interaction, the challenge, and even the client management.
  • “Why do you still pick up the phone when someone's sofa is late? My answer was, THAT’S MY JOB.” [53:04]

9. Team and Company Culture

• Avoiding Burnout:
  • Sustained by a supportive, respected team. Lessons in management from Oprah: “Everybody wants to be seen. Everybody wants to be heard.” [55:10]
• Strengths-Based Management:
  • “She discovers what people are great at, and that's their job. And when they're bad at it, she gives that to somebody else so that you're not making somebody...suicidal.” [55:21]

10. Social Media and Modern Marketing

• Evolving with Instagram & TikTok:
  • Transitioned from skepticism to thoughtful curation, maintaining expert authority over “cool factor.” [41:54–45:00]
  • “I want you to focus on making me appear as such...I'm not an influencer. With all due respect.” [44:22]
• Business Generator:
  • Instagram is now a top project generator—even for a veteran like Nate:
  • “1000% people pick design firms from Instagram.” [46:14]

11. The New Book, Foundations

• Motivation and Vision:
  • Initially pitched a multi-volume box set, but editor condensed it to a comprehensive, practical guide (57:24–61:36).
• A Resource, Not a Trophy:
  • “I wanted it to be really handsome so it could just sit on a coffee table and look good and not be loud in a room...it's as thorough as we could possibly be. It does represent 30 years of work and it's just a really cool book.” [57:26, 60:09]
• A Thank You:
  • “It’s a thank you note on my behalf to anyone over the last 30 years who’s ever bought a bath mat with my name on it.” [61:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Making Mistakes at Auction:
  “I've really from diamond earrings that came and they were like the color of someone's bad teeth...but that hasn't kept me from the thrill of the hunt.” — Nate Berkus [08:43]

• On the Lure of Brown Furniture:
  “I do think that brown furniture is really good looking. I love a George 3 chest of drawers.” — Nate [12:46]

• Learning the Power of Authenticity:
  “You have to work to be authentic...because there are so many opportunities to not be.” — Nate [35:47]

• On Making Design Last:
  “I want somebody to walk into a room that we designed or I designed 15 years later and not know exactly when it was designed.” [23:59]

• The Importance of Team and Culture:
  “I have what I consider to be the best team in the business...I think, created a culture that is happy, that people feel seen and heard and celebrated. And that was an old Oprah lesson, too.” [54:23]

• Why Stay Hands-On:
  “I don't think I could do a great job at any of those other things if I wasn't still connected to the day to day of the design firm. I'm not sure what I would do with my ideas and what I would do with my time. I'm so not bored. I'm not burnt out.” [54:12]

• Advice to Designers:
  “Be the guy or the person that when they see your name on the schedule that afternoon, they don't want to die...They know they're going to have a really nice afternoon. Productive, but a nice afternoon, because everybody just wants a nice afternoon.” [41:19]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:11] — Nate’s start at the auction house
• [05:12] — How auctions shaped his design philosophy
• [08:43] — Auction mistakes and “thrill of the hunt”
• [12:27] — Market commentary on antiques
• [16:24] — Memories of Nate’s mother and early design TV
• [21:26] — Starting out independently and business philosophy
• [23:59] — Anti-trend, building timeless spaces
• [28:25] — Oprah breakthrough moment
• [35:47] — Branding, authenticity, and influencer pressures
• [46:53] — Billing model and client philosophy
• [53:04] — Why he still loves working with clients
• [55:10] — Company culture and management lessons
• [57:24] — The vision and practical goal behind Foundations
• [61:12] — The book as a “thank you note” to his audience

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Conclusion

This episode is an honest, detailed look at how Nate Berkus has found enduring satisfaction and relevance in design by remaining committed to his core values—curiosity, authenticity, a love of beautiful objects with soul, and building a company culture that recognizes individual strengths. It’s packed with both practical strategies for designers and warm, memorable anecdotes—making it a must-listen (or must-read) for anyone passionate about the design industry.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Nate Berkus. A household name in the industry and beyond, Nate rose to prominence in the early 2000s through his appearances on the Oprah Winfrey Show. But despite becoming a celebrity in his own right, Nate never left the industry behind. He's been a working designer for three decades, taking on clients, releasing collections, collaborating with his husband, Jeremiah Brent, and publishing his own work to widespread acclaim. I spoke with Nate about his lifelong obsession with antiques, his new book on the foundations of a great home, and why, despite having every opportunity to ditch the grind of client work, he lives for the daily challenges of being a designer. This podcast is sponsored by Leloy, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art. Leloy just revealed their latest designer collaboration with Leanne Ford at High Point Market. See those beautifully handcrafted rugs and pillows at their site, along with new seasons from Amber Lewis, Chris Loves Julia and and Bridget Romanik. Learn more@loloy rugs.com that's l o l o I rugs.com and don't forget to follow eloirugs on Instagram and TikTok.

This podcast is sponsored by Hector Finch Lighting. For more than 30 years, Hector Finch has been making British manufactured decorative lighting for the design community worldwide. The brand is known for clean lines, a less is more philosophy and impeccable craftsmanship. Working with the finest European techniques and materials, mouth blown glass, hand thrown ceramics and alabaster. Hector Finch produces high specification lighting beloved by designers around the globe. Hector Finch is available in all 50 states and is represented in all major North American markets. And their dedicated team is on hand to discuss customizations and deliver a friendly personal service tailored to the needs of designers. Visit hectorfinch.com and follow Hector Finch Lighting on Instagram. And now, on with the show. So, funny enough, I was thinking of you recently, as I so often am, Nate. But I was in Chicago. I was doing a panel.

[Nate Berkus]

Okay.

[Dennis Scully]

It was a panel about women and art and the auction world. And interestingly enough, one of the people on the panel is the current CEO of Leslie Hyneman's firm, Alyssa Quindlen. Yes, and so of course it immediately cast my mind back to you at the young age of, if I recall, 20 years old.

Right?

[Nate Berkus]

Going in 20 years old as an intern, 23 as a full time employee, but yes, right, exactly.

[Dennis Scully]

So you interned for Leslie Hyman and Had an important experience in your career and then came back to work there full time. Take me. Take me back there a little bit, because I'm leading towards an auction discussion with you, Nate. Okay.

[Nate Berkus]

I love it. I love this, Dennis. It was such a great time. We call it the Gucci loafer, no dental insurance era, where we all just were 20 in our early 20s, and we thought we were really fancy, and we had little navy jackets with gold buttons, and we. We an attitude. We had lots of attitude. But it was working at the auction house, Interning at the auction house. First, when I was at Lake Forest College, it was just so interesting for me because I was a terrible assistant, number one. So everything I was meant to do, hired to do, responsible for, I didn't do well. But everything I wasn't supposed to be doing, I did a great job at. For instance, I couldn't walk onto the sales floor without rearranging the entire thing. And before a sale. And so though most of the staff begged Leslie to fire me ceremoniously or unceremoniously, they left that up to her. She brought me into her tiny office with a paper thin door, and she lit a Salem menthol, and I sat on her radiator because I thought we were friends. I thought we were friends to such a degree that one day I told her we should leave her office and go to Neiman Marcus and buy shoes because she was too young to wear those little Ferragamo flats with the buckles on.

[Dennis Scully]

You thought you were helping her out.

[Nate Berkus]

I was right. And we did leave the office, and I did pick out different shoes for her that I felt were much hotter, in all fairness. But instead of firing me, she put me in charge of a series of monthly auctions that were the marketplace sales. So it was basically the dreck that every decorator had sold. All of these rich people for years, and I had to sell it. And so what it informed me when I opened my design firm a year later, after I left the auction house, was that I didn't want to be the king of reproductions. I didn't want to rely on furniture showrooms primarily for sourcing. I wanted to be at auctions. I wanted to use vintage. I wanted to use antiques and brown furniture and all of the things that I knew someday would still retain a value. And that's still been a foundation of my principles in terms of how I run my design firm today, 30 years later, that still matters to me. And you'll hear me if you ever hide out in my office When I'm presenting to a client, you will hear me say, this is the new version of this and this is the real version of this. And I want you to note that with our commission, it's still less expensive. And the best news is that 30 years from now, it'll at least be worth that. If it's not worth 20 times that if we're in French mid century or Italian 1930s or something signed, which we're playing with often. So the auction house, the auction world was the foundation for me of how to shop. And I still love it. I'm up all night every night on live auctioneers, even with the tariffs. Even with the night.

[Dennis Scully]

I was wondering if all this is making it challenging.

[Nate Berkus]

I do the math in my head. I cheated at every math class my entire education. But that math, somehow a euro to dollar conversion plus potential tariffs, plus my guess on what the shipping is gonna cost, which is always wrong. That math. I understand.

[Dennis Scully]

Staying with the auction. Can we call it a habit?

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah, well, Jeremiah would call it an addiction, so you're welcome to call it whatever you like.

[Dennis Scully]

He did refer to it as an addiction, actually, when I spoke to him.

[Nate Berkus]

No, I know, I know. And he's also. I'm gonna refer to him as a bad person. Well, he's not wrong. He did say he's a terrible human being.

[Dennis Scully]

That Jeremiah Bre said an intervention was necessary, actually.

[Nate Berkus]

And I don't. Wow, you guys really dug into it. This is great to know. What else did eat? What else did we get into? My eating habits.

[Dennis Scully]

Now, others have suggested that there is a show to be had here about all of this, 100%. Perhaps there will be in the future. But I wonder how you really think about the auction world, because I was just having a conversation with this incredible antiques and reproduction dealer, Will Fisher from Jam. Right. And so Jam.

[Nate Berkus]

Jam is the ultimate production dealer.

[Dennis Scully]

His work is incredible and he's extraordinary. And like, you got the auction bug at such a young age. Tried to go work at Christie's when he was 10 years old and actually met with the CEO and the board. And later, like, you sort of got an entree when he was a little bit older and they said, all right, come. So he feel so strongly that he doesn't want to buy anything online. He has to see it. He has to go and inspire.

[Nate Berkus]

Oh, I could care less.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, exactly. So tell me. Tell me the other side of that. Tell me your perspective.

[Nate Berkus]

Well, but you know, Dennis, I've made huge mistakes buying at auctions online. I mean, I've really from diamond earrings that came and they were like the color of someone's bad teeth to, you know, I've made a mess. I mean, but that hasn't kept me from the thrill of the hunt. And I think really that's what it boils down to. I have always loved and was raised to love multi dealer antiques malls where you have to see something in a case with 3,000 things in it and then walk all the way to the front and ask for somebody to come open it so you can see if you think it, if it is what you think it is. And you know, my mother trained me like a little sort of pony to go retrieve the key or retrieve the person as a child. And so my life has been spent in the secondary market largely because I love auctions because they really are the truest value. It's what anyone is willing to pay at that moment in time in that location. And so you can't be more fair than that. And I like fair and I like a deal. And I love to have beautiful things. I love quality. I'm obsessed with quality. If I know that Coda NATO in Venice made a wine opener, then I don't want to see any other wine openers ever. But I'm not going to go to Codonato and commission a wine opener. I'm going to put it in a search engine and if one comes up, I'm going to get it. So it's really more. Wow, I really sound like I need. Do you think there's a 12 step program?

[Dennis Scully]

I mean again, others have suggested that you have.

[Nate Berkus]

What about a prescription? Maybe I should just beyond something. Do you think a GLP would be helpful?

[Dennis Scully]

Does Ozempic help with this? I'm not sure.

[Nate Berkus]

Does it? Is that the side effect that you just get to keep all your money? You get to be skinny and keep all your money? That would be great.

[Dennis Scully]

And I wonder, I mean, are you thinking about future projects? Are you when you're making acquisitions, are you always thinking, oh, I can use.

[Nate Berkus]

This here or my greatest eureka moment was when I reached out to first dibs and I said, we buy so much from you, how come I can't sell with you? And they said, you can. And I said, what do you mean? And they said, well, of course you can. We'll set you up with an account. So I do run this side. Hustle on, cherish on first dibs on. Nothing makes me happier than bringing boats of things to the real real. I lie when some of Jeremiah's things make it into my consignment. I'm like, I don't know. I don't remember that suit being in there at all. It's very strange. Too late. Spent the money on a pepper grinder. So I am a dealer as well. I'm not a very good dealer because I just buy what I love and I don't have brick and mortar. But in other exciting news, after I did the Cherish pop up at Bergdorf Goodman and I put a bunch of my inventory of like signed old Hermes things and Cartier things for home that I called Bergdorf and I said, can I do this permanently? And they said, yeah. So I'm going to launch with them at holiday time all these small luxury, branded, giftable things.

[Dennis Scully]

Really?

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah. Which gives me a lot of credibility in the middle of the night when I'm buying stuff.

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, this is important now because I'm working for burgers.

[Nate Berkus]

Exactly, Exactly. I am a Bergdorf spire, if you will.

[Dennis Scully]

A dream come true for you, no doubt. I'm curious though, and you mentioned brown furniture earlier. And I'm always trying to get the temperature of where we are with brown furniture or what the auction world is really telling us about what people are paying more for or wanting more of these days. What's your sense of.

[Nate Berkus]

I think that French 40s and Italian 40s and 50s has sort of plateaued in value. There aren't really deals to be had, especially by signed furniture and decoration like you can't buy or 70s even you can't buy Gabrielle a Crespi pair of lamps. They're not at any of the regional small auction houses anymore. People know they get sent to Phillips or Piazza or Christie's, Sotheby's, etc. I think everything else is sort of fair game. I think Swedish furniture has become a lot more expensive painted Swedish furniture. There's shops like get the Gusto in West Palm beach that I think does an amazing job. But like, you look at that and you kind of want it in your home. And so I've found that a lot of that Gustavian stuff is not overpriced because it was just not a good deal anymore. It just costs what it should cost, I think. Whereas obviously some French designers are just inaccessible practically at this point. I do think that brown furniture is really good looking. I love a George 3 chest of drawers. I love a George 3 or Victorian vase or silver Hallmark anything. Paul's store and all that. I mean, that's all really exciting. I still think there's deals to be had for sure. Especially at the smaller auction houses. Because if you think about it, especially Here in the US the fanciest interiors were English or French furniture, 19th or 18th century. And it didn't matter where you were. If you lived in Cleveland, Ohio, and you were loaded and you had great taste, then you had English mahogany case furniture. And so it's just. There's a lot out there. There's no scarcity. But obviously, with the best pieces, there's scarcity. The one thing that I don't understand, and Barbara Salak and I had this conversation not long ago and years ago, I had this conversation with Al Sack as well. Like, I don't get American furniture. It's just not for me. I'm not drawn to it at all.

[Dennis Scully]

Interesting. So when you say American furniture, what are you. What are you referring to?

[Nate Berkus]

Philadelphia highboy, 1780, 19th century, up to 19. Like, all that stuff, that American version of English brown furniture, which is so beautiful, the quality is so.

[Dennis Scully]

Don't get me wrong. It's lovely.

[Nate Berkus]

No, no, Exactly. But it is so not for me. I think in 30 years, outside of taking away primitive American furniture, because I love a roadside Michigan antiques mall, that I'm all over. But if you take out primitive American furniture and talk about fine American antique furniture, I have zero aesthetic appreciation. I don't think I've ever specked one piece in 30 years of doing design work.

[Dennis Scully]

Interesting. Okay.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah. I certainly would never reach for, like, a collection that's been remade based on a historic home of brown furniture. Like, that might be the least interesting thing to me. That feels like the Franklin Mint.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. Yes. Where is. Where is my Civil War chess set? I want to.

[Nate Berkus]

Exactly. Where are my fake Faberge eggs? Because I feel naked at the moment without them.

[Dennis Scully]

I missed that you mentioned that your mother had trained you to go and fetch the person with the key, and I had sort of forgotten how much of a career in the design world and in the design TV world your mom had in the very early days and in this wave of HGTV nostalgia that we're experience it now.

[Nate Berkus]

She's a meme now. Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

Up comes your mom.

[Nate Berkus]

Up comes my mother. And it was like, it's so wild for me to see. And, you know, it's so funny because my siblings and I. Let me bring you back, please. We're in suburban Minneapolis. There's nothing going on. My mother had a wonderful business decorating friends homes and clients homes and a few light commercial projects. And she had accounts with all of the fabric showrooms and all of that but she liked bright multicolor French fabrics and, you know, all this stuff. And then HGTV comes around, and they ask her to host these shows or to be a guest designer on Joan Stephan's show decorating scents. And my mom, all of a sudden, who grew up in Philadelphia, was like, the Ms. Hess's department store, and a Seventeen magazine model is on tv. And for our town, she's famous.

[Dennis Scully]

This was a big deal.

[Nate Berkus]

Sure. Oh, my God. This was like, I will have that front table at Perkins. Thank you very much. She's a radiologist's wife with her own career. Went back to design school when she divorced my dad. Remarried in 45 seconds. So she never really had to bank on her own income, in all fairness. But she worked. Good for her. She worked. No kidding. I wish it would happen to me. Yeah. But we had. She went on these TV shows, and at the time, it was really about how much you could do for as little money as possible, and it was revolutionary. So it's funny for us, my brother and my sister and me, it's so funny for us to watch those tapes as they resurface on TikTok and on Instagram. I die. It's just, like, great. And everyone's so mean, by the way. And I'm like, you know what? What was your mom doing?

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, because everyone's dissing it and making fun.

[Nate Berkus]

Oh, of course. They love to. Well, I'm dissing it, too. I mean, my mom, like, put, like, plates on a windowsill and said it looked like stained glass. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. But that was designed for the time.

[Dennis Scully]

It was a time. Exactly.

[Nate Berkus]

That was what it was. And you know what? Jeremiah, as a young gay guy in Modesto, California, used to watch my mother on that show and get ideas, and.

[Dennis Scully]

It planted the seed for him.

[Nate Berkus]

Right.

[Dennis Scully]

And I hear he's doing a terrible career.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah, terrible. Look at his ridiculous career. So you know what? He has her to thank. The only person who shouldn't credit my mother exclusively with full inspiration is Alexa Hampton. She has a pass. Everyone else is born from my mother's design prowess. I don't think Mark and Duane had her watching that, but, no, because Alexa.

[Dennis Scully]

Was being dragged to the Kips Bay show house in the third grade, so. Right.

[Nate Berkus]

So she did. Yeah. She had a different. Probably. Yeah. Auctions at Drouot. So I don't care about Alexa.

[Dennis Scully]

Right. But it's so funny, and, I mean, thinking about you. So we talked about you working at the auction house, and then again at a very young Age, starting your own firm.

[Nate Berkus]

And.

[Dennis Scully]

And was your mom coaching, guiding, giving?

[Nate Berkus]

No, no, no. Conversely, my mother and stepfather used to fight every month when she would try and balance her books. So I wanted nothing to do. Oh, yeah, it was awful. I wanted nothing to do with that. I mean, my mother would, like, sell a sofa to a client and go to Ultimo in Chicago and buy an Armani jacket like it was. This was. This was not a. This was not a masterclass in business affairs. But I don't demean her at all because she, you know, in a world where many of her girlfriends were beading things or making ceramics or whatever, my mother was actually out at meetings and at the International Market Square in Minneapolis and lugging wallpaper books and fabric memos and all that stuff.

[Dennis Scully]

Right, right. Would she have been going to High Point as I am about to tomorrow? No, that was.

[Nate Berkus]

No. I'm sorry, by the way.

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, hey, thank you.

[Nate Berkus]

You're gonna sleep and eat so well. It really is the height of luxury, isn't it?

[Dennis Scully]

Thank you. Thank you for your kind support. I'll be. I'll be.

[Nate Berkus]

You'll do great. You'll be great. Don't worry about it.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. So if. If her business acumen wasn't informing you in your. In your youth, when you were starting your own firm, what was?

[Nate Berkus]

I was working at the auction house. I was 23 years old, and I knew that I wanted to work for myself. I knew that I didn't want to answer to people about where I needed to be and when they wanted me to be there. I never made the 8am Monday morning meeting. I always walked in the door at 8:05, 8:07, 8:09. And the rule at the auction house was if you were late for the Monday 8am meeting, you had to walk in front of everybody and give Leslie Hindman $5. And that $5 was like my lunch for the day. So that didn't work for me. I really knew I wanted to be my own boss. And I knew that I loved stuff, and I knew that I loved environment, and I knew that I had a real sensitivity to how rooms were assembled, and I thought I could do a decent job. But to be honest with you, Dennis, I was making $780 every two weeks. And my real thought was, how hard can that be, you know, to make $780 in two weeks?

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Nate Berkus]

Like, if you have one client, can't you make the same money? Yeah. So. And I wouldn't have to give anybody my $5 every Monday. I loved design, and I loved getting to know people, and I love the sociological aspect of it, and I loved understanding how I think I knew from a very young age that I could understand how people wanted to be perceived in their spaces. And that has taken me pretty far. Not only with TV makeovers and things like that, where that meeting of those people is so accelerated and everything is moving so fast, but also in the work that my. My firm has done over these last three decades, I really like to get to know people, and I really am searching for cues about what they're revealing to me, what they might not be revealing to me, who they are, who they've been, and more importantly, perhaps most importantly, who they aspire to be. If a space is really crafted for you, if somebody's dreamt a bigger dream than you could dream for yourself about your home, that has legs, like for years, some of the interiors we did 25 years ago, the clients haven't changed. You know that. That means something to me.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and that's, I think, such a challenge to pull off, to create that kind of space that will have that kind of longevity.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah, I mean, I'm vehemently anti trend because of that. Even now, like, all these, like the curved sofas and the this and that, like the moody fabrics and the, like, everything going on on Instagram, it's like, I don't. It's beautiful, but I don't do that on behalf of my clients. It's too of the moment for me. I don't want a timestamp on any of the rooms that we do. I want somebody to walk into a room that we designed or I designed 15 years later and not know exactly when it was designed. But my question is, are you really going to want that in 10 years? Are you even going to want it in two? And so what I've always tried to do is assemble a collection of things that the client really loves and then bring in color, bring in texture, bring in substrates and textiles and whatever it is to kind of boost that to whatever they want it to look like now. But then, worst case scenario, just go in and recover, repaint, replaster, change hardware. But fundamentally, I'm not Albert Hadley. I know that. Or Sister Parrish, Marina Rust's main house that just ran in town and country. Sister Parrish did that a thousand years ago, and it was that. It was that from 1950 till about 10 minutes ago. And that's so cool. And that's really great design to me.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break. From the show to let you know about Hector Finch's role in this year's Kips Bay Decorator Show House in New York from September 30 through October 19, you can see their lighting installed in four different rooms created in collaboration with designers throughout the house. While you're in town, stop by the R. Hughes showroom at the New York Design center to explore a wide range of fixtures from the Hector Finch collection. To register for Kips Bay, visit kipsbaydecoratorshowhouse.org and to see the full collection online, head to hectorfinch.com and now back to the show. But when you do articulate your look and what you want to create, how do you speak of it? What's the language that you use?

[Nate Berkus]

I say that I lean heavy on antique furniture and vintage. I say I lean on archival finishes and things that have been around that have stood the test of time. I lean heavy on architectural salvage in terms of fireplace mantels and doors and hardware if I can, and flooring material. I just like things that have a patina and so I like them grouped in a room. I don't want to sleep on somebody else's headboard by anybody's definition. And I will gut a sofa, a vintage sofa, and remake it. Or I'll make a new upholstery that doesn't bother me at all. But I really like if it can be old or vintage, then it will be and then I'll usually keep the original finishes on 99% of it. If it's new for me, it has to be like new, like really future perfect or you know, like one of these like limited artisan crafted sand, cast bronze kind of, you know. But I have a problem paying for.

[Dennis Scully]

That because that's all gotten pretty expensive. And the whole collectible furniture, $40,000 for.

[Nate Berkus]

This and $80,000 for this and an addition of 12. And I don't have the confidence in that like I do with vintage. I can sell a Maria peret steel table 50 times. I'm fully confident in her body of work and how it will sit with new things that it will retain its value if not go up. I feel educated around that with all the wonderful, incredible new things. I just don't have the same level of confidence around that. I have an appreciation, but I don't have the same level of confidence.

[Dennis Scully]

I want to take a few minutes to just talk about your early career and not deprive any listeners out there who might not know the story.

Right.

So I'm guessing if people Know anything about Nate Berkus? They know, oh, he's an interior designer. And then a few years into his career, he goes on Oprah Winfrey, and this whole world sort of blows up. And I remember his name and the whole thing. But take us back to that time for people who might not know the drama of that story, that moment.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah, yeah. No, it was amazing. I mean, so I'm a young designer. I've left the auction house. I start my firm. There's like, a little bit of a Jerry Maguire moment. A year later, I went back for my friend Jessica Smolin, who still worked at the auction house. And she nervously agreed to join my firm, quote, unquote, which was me in the basement of my Chicago house at the time. And I had built a fairly decent client roster of people that I knew either through real estate brokers in Chicago or clients from the auction house. And I was ready to open my first office, which I did. And then I opened a second, moved to a fancier office in river north, which is the gallery district of Chicago. And I wanted to be on the first floor because I thought, if we have a slow month, I should have, like, a gallery where I can sell furniture and decoration. There's all this foot traffic in that area. And so I leased a space on Superior street and I opened a shop, and I represented an outdoor furniture line. And. But I'm not a great shopkeeper because I have to have things look a certain way. So, like, I'll never forget, somebody came in and bought this massive bookcase and wanted it out that day, like they were sending their delivery or movers to come pick it up. And I looked at all the smalls that I had assembled on it and displayed, like, so artfully, so perfectly. And. Yeah. And I was like, can I cancel the sale? And Jessica was like, what are you talking about? No, it was for sale. It had a ticket on it. We ran their credit. You can't keep it just because you don't want to mess. And I was like, I really don't want to mess. But that left the store, and the store looked like shit. And that was how that worked. But I was sitting at my desk, and I got a phone call, and it was one of the producers from Oprah that said, we got your name from one of our other producers who was at a party that you threw at your gallery. And we have a small space in Boston that we would love to talk to you about making over. Would you do it? And I said, yes, I would love to do it. And they said, that's great. So we need to bring your plumber, your electrician, your carpenter, everybody to Boston to do this project. And I said, okay, when were you thinking? And they said, tomorrow. And I said, can I call you back? Can I have, like, 15 minutes? And they said, yeah, yeah, of course. But definitely call us back, because we need to book this. We've got to get the crew there and all this stuff. And so I hung up the phone, and I sat at my desk, and I remember this moment, and I called her back, and she didn't know me, and I didn't know her, and I said, okay, so here's what I want to say to you. Is there somebody at Harpo whose job it is to get stuff for free? And she said, well, not really, but we have, like, a business development division. I was like, who is that? She said, well, that's Harriet Seitler. And I said, okay, can I talk with Harriet Seitler? She said, well, I'm producing this. I didn't know Jenna was, like, my age, by the way, and we're both, like, 10. And she's very official and scary on the phone. Still is, I might add. And I said to her, jenna, I think we need to loop in Harriet Seitler because we need to say, I have a great relationship with my plumber and a great relationship with my electrician and my millwork guy, but they're not leaving their work to drive to Boston to do a makeover segment on any show. You know, if they would, it'd probably be your show, but they're not doing it anyway. So my idea is, I think you need to reach out to, like, a Menards or a Lowe's or a Home Depot, because, like, those places have, like, kitchen cabinets and countertops and everything. And they know, I would imagine, every decent contractor, they've probably got a name, you know, electricians, plumbers, whatever. So I think Harpo needs to do a deal with one of those big national things, and that way that'll help us in Boston. But what if this goes really well? What if you and I have the best time? And what if Oprah really likes this? What if we get to do this again? Then we're all set up for Kansas City and Cleveland and Seattle and whatever. And she's like, okay, that's actually a really strong idea. So that's what they did. And I got on a plane, and I went to Boston, and I did this small space makeover, and it was amazing. And that's what really started it. All. And what it led to for me was two things. It led to this massive cog in Oprah's brand that I always knew I needed to protect, that I couldn't go out and go on Star Search or I needed to stay with my metier. I wanted to stay. I wanted to be in design anyway. But what it led to was my first book deal. And the book deal led to the first product deal, and the product deal led to the first endorsement deal, and that endorsement deal led to 50 other endorsement deals. And I gained a reputation among all these ad sales buyers and big brands and things like that, that I was somebody that would maintain my own authenticity and fight for my own editorial control. Even when Oprah said to me one day, I don't think you can do a whole house from Walmart. And I said, well, I don't think I can either. And then we went on Walmart's brand new website, which is what they were trying to promote, and they had furniture and all these things. And I called her back and I said, I think we should try this. I think it's kind of funny. No one even knows how to decorate a house online. Let's see if we can do it. So it was such an experimental time. I learned so much about myself. I learned so much about business. But most importantly, I learned that I had to protect myself and how I was being positioned and how I would step out in front of the camera. Not from Harpo, because they wanted me protected more than anyone, but from everybody else. And I learned how to say no. I really learned how to give a hard no. And I still give a lot of hard no's, so.

[Dennis Scully]

And is that what turned out to be such an important part of maintaining. Because I want to talk about how you learned this branding sensibility, this authenticity that you were talking about. We used to just think that one was just authentic, one went out and one presented themselves as themselves. Now it's, you have to work to be authentic, and you have to be mindful of that.

[Nate Berkus]

Well, you have to work to be authentic, Dennis, because there's so many opportunities to not be.

[Dennis Scully]

Exactly. So tell me about that.

[Nate Berkus]

So back in the day, pre social media, pre Internet, whatever, it was very clean. A plumbing company would hire you to go to the kitchen and bath show and demonstrate their new product, or stand there and get across the three most important bullet points that they, as a brand, felt important for their collection. And you would be hired and you'd go and do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. No, Shame in the game. Why not? What changed was that everyone's an influencer. Everyone's got, you know, they want your followers now, and they want to link everything to a direct sale. And you, as the brand, have to protect the information that you're giving to your followers. You can't just give them everything just because you have 2 million followers or whatever you have. You have to be an editor behind the scenes around that. You have to create, use your social media as almost your own magazine that you're allowing in the pages of that what you feel really is good for those people who follow you to know. My way is you cannot take every deal. You can't. You. You can take a lot of deals.

[Dennis Scully]

And as you said, and you have and. Right.

[Nate Berkus]

Yes. And I have, and I continue to. I can't wait. I'm, you know. But you also have to be like, I did a campaign for Nicorette gum because I was using Nicorette gum.

[Dennis Scully]

So it made sense for who you were.

[Nate Berkus]

Yes. So I was like, yes, I would love to do a campaign for Nicorette gum because it helped me. I don't smoke. I haven't touched a cigarette in years. In the product licensing world, it's all about compromise. You and I have talked about this before, but it's very much about compromise. I used to bet the towel buyer at Target in their basement where they set up your fake, like, aisle. I used to bet them that what colors I thought would sell and what wouldn't.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Nate Berkus]

It's not that I had the choice to say, I am not doing those colors, but I tried to figure out how to make it fun. Like, if that color is in the top three, I'll take you to dinner. If it's not in the top three, you don't get to pick next time we're standing here. So you have to respect your partnerships. You have to respect their experience. You have to respect what they know of their customer. But then at the same time, you have to remember that they brought you in because they don't know. Exactly. And that it's your job to figure out what is going to be exciting and what's going to be ahead of the trend curve or ignore the trend curve. And that is a responsibility at 53 that I think I'm pretty good at now.

[Dennis Scully]

So you have been doing it for so long, and you are exceptional in that you have been famous, for lack of a better word, for a long time, and you have been able to maintain this authenticity that we've just been talking about, but also this level of integrity and also an approachability. Or you're a genuinely.

[Nate Berkus]

100% right. 100%. Listen, I have really decent manners and I'm a nice guy.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Nate Berkus]

It's not really that more complicated. I mean, I don't.

[Dennis Scully]

But that's so hard to do in.

[Nate Berkus]

A world I don't find it hard to do. I think it's, you know, it's so listen, no one is dumb. I've never talked down to a soul. I mean, maybe the puppy, but I don't think that counts because it's like a human soul, let's say. You know, the truth is that grace goes such a long way in any business, but especially in design, because for some reason people don't expect it. And when I meet a young designer, like I did at NISID when I was given an honorary degree and I spoke to the graduating class that year, Sebastian, who's a designer that graduated that year, went to Juan to work for Andre Malone. And we just both did a project across the hall from each other at Hudson Yards here in New York City. And I met him that night and he was like this charming, nice, bright eyed, interested, not acting like he knew everything, which would have been ridiculous because he's eight, but open, curious, like those are the qualities that you want to invite into your home to create an interior that represents you and your family. You don't want to invite somebody to your kitchen table that makes you feel like you're stupid because you don't know everything that they know. And my advice to all these young designers who are starting out, who built this amazing Instagram feed or not, or graduating from these great schools like RISD and Nicet and you know, all these amazing places that where you can get such a strong design education is. That's all great, but be the guy or the person that when they see your name on the schedule that afternoon, they don't want to die, that they have to spend four hours with you. Conversely, they see your name, you've booked that meeting and they know they're going to have a really nice afternoon. Productive, but a nice afternoon, because everybody just wants a nice afternoon.

[Dennis Scully]

But to that point, about social media. And as much as everybody is trying to figure out how to run their design firm, so many young people especially. But everyone across the board is trying to figure out how to present themselves on social media, what their brand really is, who they are and how they want to present themselves. And you seem to have that figured out. And I wonder how you think about it. And if there was a point where somebody helped inform you about.

About that.

[Nate Berkus]

I was so reticent to social media. I remember years ago, Ashton Kutcher, who was like an early investor, came to Harpo in Chicago and sat all of us down and told us how important Instagram was. It literally looked like the Star wars bar. It was me, Mehmet Oz, Dr. Phil. I was like, oh, God. And I was like, this is so dumb. No one is going to care about what sandwich I ate. I've heard you were very skeptical about social media. Couldn't even believe that it was a real thing. However, I will say my management team said to me, you can't ignore this any longer. I will say that now that it is a thing. And I shoot with my team once a week. We have an editorial content schedule that I approve, that I sometimes follow and sometimes say, I'm not doing that. That's super dumb. But I've been on board now for several years to the degree that. But recently I did pull my whole social media team together and I said, look, and this was before I was working on my book foundations. I said, I'm the expert. I've been doing this for 30 years. I don't want to be the cool, funny guy doing TikTok videos. I don't care. I'm not an influencer. With all due respect. What we're seeing out there is a lot of great editing, in my opinion. These are people that have never installed a room and they don't know the 5,000 purchase orders and details and review of shop drawings and everything that goes into installing a room. And I do. So I want you to focus on making me appear as such. The perfect example. I shot an episode of a show for HGTV as a guest judge with Tyler Cameron and Taisha Adams the other day from the Bachelor. And they do this whole thing where they talk at the same time that the tape is talking. I don't really get it. I had to do it 80 times on their feeds. Sure. As a co post with them, sure. But for me at 53 years old in my cashmere cardigan, to go out and be like, hey, guys, it's just not me. It might have been me at 25, but I wasn't 25 when Instagram came out. So the authenticity is partly due to the team saying, a, you have to do this, and B, we're going to create an editorial calendar for you and you're going to. You're going to weigh in. And then now, the last probably eight years, seven years. I've paid much closer attention and I do give them direction seasonally to say this is really what I'm interested in. This is how I wish to be perceived and positioned. Now you guys figure out what that looks like on these four dates that you have reserved to film.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloy. I want to tell you about a special guest joining me in November. Leloyd launched its collaboration with amber Lewis in 2021 and the designers textiles have made their way into homes across the country. All next month you'll hear parts of my conversation with Amber about her latest collections and so much more. You can explore the full Amber Lewis and the loy [e-mail] that's L O L O I rugs.com and make sure to follow Loyrugs on Instagram and TikTok.

And many, many designers say that Instagram, interestingly has become one of the biggest new project generators for them. Is that the same that you are finding? Is that where so many people are discovering you?

[Nate Berkus]

Well, for everything. I mean, I don't get it. I don't go to somebody to try a new place to get my hair cut if I don't go on their Instagram page first.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Nate Berkus]

I won't eat a hamburger if I'm not on their Instagram page and hearing what Katie Lee had to say about it or whatever. I mean, you know, 1000% people pick design firms from Instagram.

[Dennis Scully]

So I want to, I want to tie that back to your design business before I talk to you about the book because I want to talk to you about 30 years and everything that you were thinking about with this, with this book. But tell me so often when we're talking to designers, another thing beyond the social media strategy that everyone's trying to figure out is where are we today with our charging strategy? Are we hourly? Do we have a design fee? Do we have a markup? And where have you and your firm landed with all of that over the years?

[Nate Berkus]

We have had the exact same structure with rate increases for the last 25 years. And it is net cost plus 30%. Okay, that's a scale as well. If it's construction material or plumbing, we go down, we charge hourly. I'm the most expensive. Lauren Buxbaum Gordon, who is my partner and runs the Chicago office is the second most expensive. And then it goes down there from there all the way to design assistance. We do not do flat fee. We have but it's kind of dumb because what we do is we add up all of that and we just say, okay, you're paying us the exact same thing. But when we do a flat fee, rarely the scope is so detailed that if somebody asks the team for a soap dish, we're like, hold on, we're outside of the scope. We weren't going into that bathroom, but if we're going into that bathroom, then we have to redo our flat fee, guys. So I've just been doing this for too long. There's been too many. And I feel like we've earned the right to charge the way we prefer to charge.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so to that point of earning the right to charge what you charge, is there a we're not showing up for less than this kind of starting point at this point now for your firm or how do you think about that?

[Nate Berkus]

No, that's not. I mean, we do have like an internal minimum that we all talk about. I waive it all the time, depending on the project, and it drives everybody nuts. But you know, for instance, right now we have this young couple that bought their first apartment uptown and I wanted to do it. And at the same time we're working with this couple in Miami who have an amazing apartment full of additions of new that I want to know more about. And I wanted to do that. So, you know, at this point, it's more about what we're going to take from the project. Not only monetarily, how exciting it is for the staff or not a firm with a signature look. We've never been. I love working in a bunch of different styles. I love applying everything we have learned about scale and materiality and space planning and storage solutions and all of that to many different aesthetics. So right now, especially since I've opened the New York office, which is staffed with a bunch of really creative, brilliant people, I want to take the projects that we're going to learn from and that we're really going to enjoy. It doesn't mean that if somebody has almost no money to spend that that's the right model for us with our project managers and our designers and their design assistants and me at the head of the creative, that doesn't really work if you don't have an appropriate budget to hire a 30 year old firm like mine. But if you're really charming and really great and I'm obsessed with you and the project seems really interesting, I've been known to be like, come on guys, let's just do it. And those projects have been really Fun. We've done model units. For instance, we've done two. And we did this building on West 13th street, where we were charged with picking out all the finishes for the common areas and all of the units, and then furnishing the model unit, which we did with 80% vintage and antique auction finds. Again, credibility. But those projects are new for us, and they were super exciting. A $25 million penthouse, Hudson Yards, across the hallway from Sebastian. Like, that was great. We would have never been approached for that in Chicago, but we're being approached for it here in New York. And I like doing that quick turnaround. You're just presenting to the team. You get to use beautiful things and craft these interiors that are instant. Which brings me back to my TV makeover days.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and speaking of that, I mean, it seems as though in thinking about where you most want to go next. It seems like when you had your own show, you didn't love it or it didn't excite you.

[Nate Berkus]

No, I couldn't. I was miserable. Dennis.

[Dennis Scully]

You were miserable?

[Nate Berkus]

Miserable, my talk show? Yes, miserable. Every day. Every day, there were certain things that really mattered. I could name them. On one hand, it was an environment where everybody was working so hard, the best ideas didn't make it through. And we were catering to focus groups. And I've talked to everybody that has launched their own talk show since me. Had a conversation with Bethenny Frankel, went to dinner before she had her talk show. And I was like, don't let them turn you into something that the focus groups want you to be. Because you got this show because you're you. And that's what they're gonna wanna see no matter what they say. And immediately, it was like you could see the coaching, the this or the influence of the network, the influence of whatever it was. And it's like, there are so many people out there that do a great job. I'm not sure I'm one of them. I don't know if I was born to be a talk show host. My husband probably. Probably. He'd probably be great. But I'm interested and really deeply passionate about what I'm interested and deeply passionate about. And that does not include how to make chicken.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so to that point, about what you're really passionate about, so often when I speak to designers, they tell me, oh, listen, Dennis, I am trying to get some other gig so that I can get away from these clients who are just draining every last bit of positive energy from me. And if I can have enough product license, deal or Whatever it is, they're looking for the off ramp. They're looking for the escape hatch.

[Nate Berkus]

But I have the off ramp and I'm still here.

[Dennis Scully]

I know.

Well, that's my point.

[Nate Berkus]

For 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I really love the interaction. I really love the problem solving aspect of it. Like I said, I love the sociological aspect of it. And I love the. It's still deeply rewarding. The research, the creativity, the new ideas, the challenges in execution, the getting to know people and lifting them up in our way by crafting this room that they feel pretty in and accomplished in. I had it years ago. The off ramp came really early for me. And I remember once, years ago, someone asked me, you have books and you have all these licensing deals and you have all this stuff and you have endorsement deals and all these things. Why do you still pick up the phone when someone's sofa is late? And my answer was, that's my job. I don't think I could do a great job at any of those other things if I wasn't still connected to the day to day of the design firm. I'm not sure what I would do with my ideas and what I would do with my time. I'm so not bored. I'm not burnt out.

[Dennis Scully]

So why not? How have you not gotten burned out from it all? And what do you do to maintain everything that one sees about Nate Berkus?

[Nate Berkus]

I have what I consider to be the best team in the business. And that is how I'm able to do what I love to do, because I'm buoyed and surrounded by a team of people in three offices who really care and want to work here. They want to be part of the culture that not just I have created, but Lauren has created in the Chicago office that the clients help us create by sending us 16 pints of Jenny's ice cream as a thank you note. And all of us are standing at the kitchen island with spoons. I have, I think, created a culture that is happy that people feel seen and heard and celebrated. And that was an old Oprah lesson, too.

[Dennis Scully]

You learned that from her?

[Nate Berkus]

100%. Everybody wants to be seen. Everybody wants to be heard. She said it 65 billion times, right?

[Dennis Scully]

That's the key. Everyone wants to be seen. Everyone wants to be heard. Make them feel that way.

[Nate Berkus]

And by seen is. Yes. And by seen, you want to be seen for what you're great at, and you want to be heard for what you're not great at. And when you're seen for what you're great at. Then, like, I talk about how Lauren runs the Chicago office all the time because it's so genius. She discovers what people are great at, and that's their job. And when they're bad at it, she gives that to somebody else so that you're not making somebody. When I was at the auction house all those years ago, just where this conversation started, they would make me, like, catalog estates of Toby jugs and dolls and those gross rugs in the basement with spiders and whatever, and it's like I was suicidal. That's not the best use of what I can do, you know? And Leslie looked at that as my first boss, and she looked at me and she said, yeah, you suck. You're awful. My God, I. Poor Colleen Uland, who you're supposed to be typing letters to the trust and estates attorney. I would die if I were Colleen youn too. But I'm not going to fire you. Your job is to make everything look pretty. And your job, sir, is to sell. So we've taken that with us. Lauren's taken it, I've taken it. It's like to be seen in a company, in a company culture, especially in a creative company culture, is to be celebrated for what you're good at and to be honest about what you're not. I can't do everything in this office, you know, I certainly can't. I can't even make a spreadsheet, Dennis. I don't want to. I'm not, you know, a spreadsheets and chicken are no's.

[Dennis Scully]

That's somebody else's.

[Nate Berkus]

That's somebody else's cake. Somebody else. I'll eat it.

[Dennis Scully]

Right?

[Nate Berkus]

But I don't want to know how to make it, and I certainly don't want to touch it when it's pink.

[Dennis Scully]

Now I've got to get you out of here. So let's talk about the book. Because one of the things I'm curious about as I hold up your book and I notice that there isn't a beautiful project on the COVID of this book or an image of you and the family or I believe that these are some different flooring options and some different textures.

[Nate Berkus]

Flooring, Wall covering, right?

[Dennis Scully]

Wall covering.

[Nate Berkus]

Yeah, flooring. Wall covering and then stone. It was by intention, the COVID Because first of all, meaning no disrespect to anybody else's design book, and I have an extensive library, and I'm a real fan of having someone's work in a book format, not in a saved file. But I will say that the design books all look like very similar lately. It's that square within a square with the embossed border and then the image of the interior and the writing and on the top and the name on the bottom. And sometimes it's off center and sometimes it's bigger and whatever. And I just didn't want that at all. I also wanted the book to be really handsome so it could just sit on a coffee table and look good and not be loud in a room. So I wanted it to be a little bit quiet. And that was really the impetus behind the design.

[Dennis Scully]

And what was the impetus behind the book itself? In the book you talk about, you couldn't have written this book earlier in your career, but tell me what made you want to.

[Nate Berkus]

So I didn't want to write this book. It wasn't the book that I pitched initially. The book I pitched initially, and I thought this was such a genius idea, and I was such a visionary, was that I wanted, you know, like the Phide in guides or the asylum guides to, like, the hotels or furniture makers or whatever. I wanted to do a box set that would be sold as a set, but also sold individually, broken down by room or area of the home. And in each volume, I wanted to pour into everything I've learned over the last 30 years. Doris Cooper from Simon and Schuster, who used to work for Clarkson Potter and lost my first book because she didn't want to pay enough money for it. And I brought this idea to her, and she said, that's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you know? She's like, do you know the price of paper? I'm worried about one cover, let alone. And you're telling me you want it all to be inexpensive? You want each one to be $15 or less. And I was like, well, yeah, I know my market. I don't want a $150 monograph. Like, that's not me. So she said, I love the idea, but we're putting it in one cover. You can do everything you just pitched me, but we're not splitting it into volumes. And so that's how we built the book. And I worked with Heather Somerville, who was a former Domino editor, who's a Brill brilliant, brilliant person. And we worked together on it with my team. It became apparent that we weren't going to save anything, that we were just going to put every idea wisely and in an organized fashion between this single cover. And I wanted the book to not be $100. I kept. Just kept saying, I hope it's not $100. It's 400 pages of our best, our absolute best. But it's. I don't know how much it is on Amazon. It launches November 18, but it's around 50, 55. So the point was, is that I didn't win my initial battle with Doris Cooper. Doris Cooper won the battle, but we both won in the end because it's been such a pleasure for me to go out and talk about this book. It's literally practical information that's done almost in a magazine format that's really easy to read and easy to use. And you can flip to bathrooms if you're redoing your bathroom. You don't care what I have to say about kitchens or closets. Or if you're going to the Container Store on a Saturday and you want to see what a million dollar dressing room looks like and get some ideas for how you can copy that or use that as inspiration, then you can go to the page on storage and closets and laundry rooms. So it's as thorough as we could possibly be. It does represent 30 years of work and it's just a really cool book. That is a thank you note on my behalf to anyone over the last 30 years who's ever bought a bath mat with my name on it. And I'm grateful. I'm grateful for the ride. I really am. And I'm still going well, and that's what's remarkable.

[Dennis Scully]

And I know that I have to let you go and there's so much more that I want to talk about.

[Nate Berkus]

With you, including I'll come on anytime, by the way. You know, that's.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, you're nice to see.

[Nate Berkus]

Like, if you want to co host, you and I could just do this together. We could talk about things that have no interest whatsoever to any of your listeners. I'm great at that, too.

[Dennis Scully]

I would love that. I'm enormously grateful to you for making the time to talk with me. It is always a pleasure. And I hold you up as someone that I very much hope others will emulate as they think about how to traverse the world and life. I really do.

[Nate Berkus]

That's extremely kind. And you are one of my favorite people to sit down with anywhere. So whatever you need or want from me. And I can speak for Jeremiah as well. I know he's game. The dynamic shifts a bit when I have to hear what he has to say. But we could muddle through it, I'm sure. But thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate your support. Support, too.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BOH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.