Jessica Helgerson has two clients on every project: The homeowner and the house

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Business of Home
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Jessica Helgerson
Episode Title: Jessica Helgerson has two clients on every project: The homeowner and the house
Air Date: December 15, 2025

This episode features a conversation with acclaimed interior designer Jessica Helgerson. Known for her layered aesthetic, clear values, and her “1% Project” philanthropy, Helgerson discusses her design philosophy, personal journey, and the unique challenges of balancing creativity, commerce, and conscience in the high-end interiors industry. Key topics include her upbringing, the ethical tensions of luxury design, firm management evolution, her “two clients” approach, philanthropy, and expanding her practice to Paris.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jessica's Path to Design (04:29–11:00)

• Early Life: Grew up between Southern California and France; spent summers in Lyon with her French family, which fostered a love of rich conversations and hosting.
  • "A bunch of smart people sitting around the table eating beef tongue with a dictionary...so cool." (05:47, Jessica Helgerson)
• Youthful Rebellion: Attended strict French school and public schools in the US, fell in with a punk crowd, dropped out, later returned to college.
• Discovery of Design: An English major with dim job prospects, she stumbled onto interior design via an extension course. It “just clicked”—she especially loved space planning.
  • “It was like, oh, yeah, this is it...It feels like the skeleton of the space.” (08:08, Jessica Helgerson)
• Start of Career: Founded her own firm after seeing little work aligned with her values in Santa Barbara. First project came after local press coverage on her interest in green building.

Wrestling with Values in Luxury Design (03:00–04:05, 13:29–20:48)

• Anti-Capitalist Undercurrent: Helgerson expresses discomfort with the inherent contradictions of being values-driven within a luxury market.
  • “It’s a bit of a dichotomy. I have maybe the ear of some people who don’t think about those things as much, but are more interested in kitchen remodels." (03:34, Jessica Helgerson)
• Pain Along the Way: She recounts missteps in hiring, difficult clients, and burnout but describes these as valuable growth experiences.
• Values Filtering Clients: Openness about her beliefs has improved the quality of clients her firm attracts.
  • “As I have become more brave about saying things that matter...the quality of our clientele has improved.” (19:22, Jessica Helgerson)
• Holistic Approach: Links listening to both clients and broader societal issues, emphasizing design as an act of empathy.

Firm Management and Growth (14:46–18:57)

• Confidence Gained: Learned to trust her eye, provide clear feedback, and create an environment where designers are empowered yet supported.
• Delegation Struggles: Multiple failed studio director hires before successfully finding a counterbalance whose skills and values complemented her own.
  • "We have an absolutely near zero Venn diagram overlap...100% contradictory skill sets. And so that's good." (18:32, Jessica Helgerson)

Design Philosophy: Two Clients on Every Project (21:46–25:36)

• Listening-Based Design: Helgerson insists on treating both the homeowner and the house as clients.
  • “I kind of have two clients on every project. I have the house as a client and the client as a client.” (24:13, Jessica Helgerson)
• Respect for Architecture: Permanent interventions should honor the home's original structure; customization and personality express themselves in décor.
  • “Just don’t screw the house up. Do the job that the house wants.” (23:30, Jessica Helgerson)
• Distinct from a Signature Style: Her portfolio is deliberately varied, with each project a response to its unique context.

The 1% Project: Philanthropy in Practice (29:10–33:43)

• Origin and Implementation: Helgerson’s office adds 1% to invoices, pooling funds for local nonprofits—especially those addressing homelessness.
  • “We add 1% to all of our invoices and let it pile up...and then we give it to one of the nonprofits.” (31:21, Jessica Helgerson)
• Vision vs. Reality: Hoped the program would spread industry-wide, but admits reluctance to “hassle” others has kept it modest in scope.
• Personal Reward: Finds the initiative meaningful but tempered by awareness of growing need.
  • “I just see the need growing exponentially and our little contribution does a little something...” (33:01, Jessica Helgerson)

Fee Structure and Accessibility (26:49–28:59)

• Billing Approach: Hourly for residences, sometimes fixed for large commercial; 30% markup on goods but never above retail.
• Accessibility Gap: Acknowledges work is mostly for the wealthy; mitigates this with free “friends and family” design help and through platforms like The Expert.

Product Lines and The Expert Platform (35:07–41:09)

• Product Development: Engaged in lighting and rug designs, enjoys creative inception more than sales.
  • “I love the creative phase. And then I completely lose interest once we get to the selling the things phase.” (37:37, Jessica Helgerson)
• Retail Partnerships: Sees potential for broader distribution; excited to delegate development to her new studio director.
• Platform Experience: Initially hesitant, now enthusiastic about offering consultation sessions via The Expert.
  • "I did it and I love, love it...They come super prepared and we always get there and it's fun." (40:20, Jessica Helgerson)

International Expansion: Paris Office (45:17–51:12)

• Personal Fulfillment: Opening a Paris outpost gave her a sense of belonging in France—previously always a visitor, now a resident and business owner.
  • “It has been a really beautiful chapter for me, because my entire life, I have never really been at home in France...this has given me a real raison d’etre.” (46:26, Jessica Helgerson)
• Distinct Market: American clients in Paris are mainstay; French firms’ business models are different (“kickbacks from everyone”).
• Historic Inspiration: Finds joy working in centuries-old buildings and letting context or even a painting—rather than just architecture—guide the design concept.

On Growth, Ambition, and Life Balance (51:19–59:06)

• Contentment and Gratitude: Sees herself as having "arrived", more interested in joy, learning, and showing up well than in endless ambition.
• Garden as Meditation: Finds grounding and hope in tending her garden—a form of “death meditation” and reflection on shared human experience.
  • "I'm just trying to...show up as a decent human being for my short time on this earth and really not be shitty." (53:15, Jessica Helgerson)
• Advice for Designers: The profession’s pain comes from working with people—accept it, but also hold things less tightly, trust others, and set boundaries for respect out of self-care.
  • "There's just more to hold. If I was clinging fiercely at every single aspect...I would be first a nightmare of a boss." (57:39, Jessica Helgerson)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On career direction:
  "I was wondering if I should go work at the post office. And then I got a...flyer at the library...and it just clicked." (07:37, Jessica Helgerson)

• On the dual client approach:
  “All the permanent decisions, we’re kind of listening to the house more than the client.” (23:00, Jessica Helgerson)

• On filtering clients:
  "People who don't want to hear about any of that...don't call us and that's okay, there's someone else for them." (19:37, Jessica Helgerson)

• On firm growth challenges:
  "The studio director who we hired at that point did not wind up being a good fit...Nor did the second one, nor did the third one. But now we are on the 4th." (16:14, Jessica Helgerson)

• On philanthropy’s limits:
  “I just see the need growing exponentially and our little contribution does a little something. But yeah, I think it would have felt more satisfying had it grown...” (33:01, Jessica Helgerson)

• On finding fulfillment:
  "I'm longing for a boutique hotel to do...But I feel fairly settled. I feel a lot of gratitude. I don't feel a ton of ambition." (51:29, Jessica Helgerson)

• On managing pain and growth:
  "If I was clinging fiercely at every single aspect...I would be first a nightmare of a boss...There's just more to hold...Now I just...want them to be respectful." (57:39, Jessica Helgerson)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Jessica’s background and entry into design: 04:29–11:00
• Wrestling with anti-capitalist tendencies: 03:00–04:05, 13:29–20:48
• Firm culture & management: 14:46–18:57
• Design approach: The house as client: 21:46–25:36
• Fee structure & accessibility: 26:49–28:59
• The 1% project: 29:10–33:43
• Product design & The Expert: 35:07–41:09
• Paris expansion: 45:17–51:12
• Philosophy on growth, pain, and contentment: 51:19–59:06

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Tone & Language

Jessica Helgerson is candid, self-reflective, and witty, with a deep sense of responsibility and humility. She doesn’t hide vulnerabilities or philosophical contradictions, and her language blends warmth, humor, and critical thought.

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For New Listeners

This episode is rich in both practical business lessons and personal philosophy. It’s particularly valuable for design professionals facing the challenge of aligning values and commercial success, firm owners grappling with growth and delegation, and anyone interested in the intersection of creativity, empathy, and ethics in the creative industries.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Jessica Helgerson. Raised in Southern California and France, Jessica had a unique upbringing. Eventually, she found her way to design and started her own firm in 2000, moving it to Portland, Orego six years later. There, she's built a reputation around her thoughtful, layered work and her values. Jessica's 1% project sees her donating a portion of the invoices on her projects to local non profits. I spoke with Jessica about her recent induction into the AD100, opening an outpost of her firm in Paris, and why she has two bosses on every project, the client and the house itself. This podcast is sponsored by Leloy, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art. Leloy revealed their latest designer collaboration with Leanne Ford at High Point Market this fall. See those beautifully handcrafted rugs and pillows at their site, along with new seasons from Amber Lewis, Chris Loves Julia and Bridget Romanik. Learn more@loloi rugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and don't forget to follow Laloyloi Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. This podcast is proudly sponsored by John Roselli and Associates, celebrating 75 years of design excellence and artisanal inspiration. For decades, John Rosselli has been a trusted name in the design world, representing premier brands known for their craftsmanship and timeless style. With a commitment to bespoke customization and exceptional service, John Rosselli helps designers bring their creative visions to life. Visit johnrosselli.com or step into one of their showrooms in the D and D Building, the Dakota, the Washington Design center, or the Mart to experience their legacy firsthand. And now, on with the show.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Starting with a huge congratulations to you. Since we last spoke, you've been named to the AD100 list.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yes, that's true.

[Dennis Scully]

And do they wake you up at 2 in the morning?

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Is it like getting the Nobel?

[Dennis Scully]

Do you get a call and saying.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I got an email. It may have come in at 2am but that's not when I opened it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, congratulations on that. And I hope it leads to vast fame and fortune. Beyond beyond your wildest dreams and fortune.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Are really my goals. Thank you.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, you know, that's a great. That's a great point. I don't know.

[Dennis Scully]

I don't know that they are.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And that's one of the things that I want to talk to you About. Because I know you, I know you have some, what should we say, anti capitalist vibes.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Jessica, is that accurate?

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

I mean, yeah, it's accurate and it's interesting to have a conversation with somewhat of an anti capitalist who is also achieving great success in the industry of high end interior design. And how you wrestle with that.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a dichotomy. I mean, I don't know that it's been a very deliberate path, but yeah, I think as I have grown in my career, I have also grown in my awareness of systemic injustices. And I think I have maybe the ear of some people who don't think about those things as much, but are more interested in kitchen remodels. And so it's a slightly oblique angle to come at things from.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

But yeah, no, no, and I want to talk more about that, but I want to take a step back and speak about your youth, but I sort of admire your, your little punk rock edge that you had in your. In your youth. And. And I know that you weren't always on the straight and narrow when it came to your schooling.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, no, that's correct. Well, I grew up half French and half American. I have an American father and French mama. And so I spent my summers in France and my school years in the US And I am an only child, but I have a big bunch of cousins in France over the summers. Suddenly I had a lot of siblings and I really loved and admired the way my French grandparents hosted all of us and these endless meals where there was always a dictionary on the table and really interesting discuss and the kids running in and out and it all just seemed very. And my grandma making things that in America at that point I, I mean I never wanted to eat them, but they seemed really like she would make brain or beef tongue, which I found gross, definitely. But also really so exotic, right? Yes, exactly. So, yeah, a bunch of smart people sitting around the table eating beef tongue with a dictionary and eating.

[Dennis Scully]

God.

[Jessica Helgerson]

So cool.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Where in France was this exactly?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Outside of Lyon. So my mom is from Lyon, so that was sort of childhood. And yeah, I went to a private girls school run by nuns. Lived with my uncle and aunt for my seventh grade year. And then I came back to Southern California in 8th grade and went to a public junior high where all the kids were smoking pot in the bathroom.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So it was a little bit different than the strict category.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Totally. And I was just a kid in a candy store. It really like I had always been, my parents were very intellectual. We never had A TV growing up. And so I just found all of, like, pop culture super taboo and fascinating. And so, yeah, I just, I. I also started smoking pot in the bathroom because.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Why not in the bathroom? Join in.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. And then I just went from like ninth grade, first semester of ninth grade, all A's, to I think second semester of ninth grade, pretty much solid D's. And then I wound up dropping out in my junior year of high school and taking the ged. I just thought punk rock was cool and I thought that it was fun and. Yeah, it was. It was very compelling to me at the time.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. And.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, so. And, and so what were you doing instead of going to school? What. What was the punk rock group doing at the time?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Well, the punk rock group was fun and sparkly and sexy and also pretty toxic. And actually, Josh Brolin has spoken of this often. He was one of the gang and he also got out. But basically almost every boy I went to high school with is dead now. So they are because of. Because of drugs. Yeah. And so I never got into that hard stuff. There was also a lot of, like, misogyny. And it wasn't a great environment to be a young girl, honestly. So I started pulling away from it a little bit. I got a job at a shoe store. And then my dad, who was a professor, was offered a two year stint at Caltech. And he said, you can come with us and you can go back to school. You can stay in Santa Barbara, where I was at the time, and keep working at the shoe store, but then you're on your own. And that was going to be tough. So I went back to school. I went to Pasadena City College for two years, went to ucla. I was an English major. There were no jobs for English majors. I was wondering if I should go work at the post office. And then I got a. I saw a flyer at the Santa Barbara Public Library for the UCSB extension interior design program. I thought, oh, that I like all that stuff. And so I went to one class and it just clicked. It was like, oh, yeah, this is it. I mean, I really, really, really enjoy thinking about space. And I realized actually that there's something incredibly satisfying to me about space planning. Like, I think of it as the. Now I think I've formulated why I love it so much. It feels like the skeleton of the. Of the space and then all of the finishes and decorating and all that. Feel like the skin and the jewelry. But I use the example often of, like, if your arm is sticking out backwards and tucked around the Corner. It doesn't really matter if your rings are really beautiful. Like it's not working well. So yeah, I think that, that thinking about space in an architectural way was really fun and then it just clicked. It was definitely the right job. So I graduated and was working for, for an architecture firm that will remain unnamed. And I was also at the same time joining the board of an organization called the Sustainability Project. And I became quite quickly the president of the Sustainability Project, which felt like a great honor to me because it was a bunch of old guys and I was not an old guy. I was like 25 or when they proposed the presidency to me. So that felt it just, that organization was very formative for me. I think it was values led and felt very starry eyed. And I thought this is fabulous. You know, we've finding out about climate change, but we've got plenty of time to fix it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Oh yes, we're going to stop it.

[Jessica Helgerson]

We're going to stop that and it's going to be great and great. Yeah. Um, so I, you know, I was looking around Santa Barbara and it's a small town and I didn't see anyone doing the kind of work I wanted to do. I didn't see the firm that I wanted to be with. And so I kind of felt like I didn't have another choice. I remember sitting on the, the corner sidewalk with my dad talking numbers and it was going to $8,000 a month for me to have the office pay my rent, like all of everything. And that seemed at the time just like impossible. And simultaneously I did not see another path. Like I felt like this was the only thing I could do. And so I did and I rented a space and I, the very first week I wrote to the Santa Barbara News Press and I said, hey, I've opened my office and were interested in green building. And the very first week a client walked in, so this is 26 years ago, and he said, I have a property on Hollister Ranch we're wanting to remodel. Hollister Ranch is a beautiful property that is divided into 100 acre parcels on the Pacific coast just north of Santa Barbara. And he had a property with two houses. And he said I'd never heard of green building. I saw the article and the News Press and can you help me put together a team? And of course I had the perfect team already because I was on the sustainability project. So I got to pick the architect and the landscape architect and everybody for the project and I was off and running and it just, it's Been. You know, there, of course, has been pain along the way, but it has always been just like, okay, it started, and it just kept moving forward. And it always has felt like, despite the pain, like, I'm definitely on the right path.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So despite the pain. So what's the.

[Dennis Scully]

What's. What's the pain?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Oh, my gosh. The pain. The pain is in every aspect. I think that my son, who was six weeks premature, was premature because of our bookkeeper at the time.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

What, because of anxiety you were feeling?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. So she. She was doing a terrible job, and I realized it, and she said, I'm just going to take everything home and fix it. And she took everything off of the computers at the office and took them to her house and then lost it all, and.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Oh, you're kidding.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. No. So, you know, I mean, now we have a very smooth, very smooth accounting situation, but, yeah, so many bumps along the way. You know, horrible clients and wonderful clients and horrible employees. And wonderful employees. And. Yeah. Lots of. Lots of joy and lots of fun and lots of pain. And. Yeah. I've learned a lot about myself and about how to run a firm better.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, so tell me a little bit about that growing up a lot and what you've learned and learning how to better run a firm. Tell me some of what comes to mind when you think of what you've learned.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I think I just feel a lot more confident within myself to lead. I feel settled in my role as design director now, and I think I am the design director, and I think I can say if I. If my eye is seeing something differently, that, you know, and I think I was more worried about hurting people's feelings or stepping on toes or wanting to make sure that everybody got hurt and everybody does get hurt. Like, we've figured out how to create an office. I think that really grows good designers who are empowered, but who are also getting clear feedback, and we're just better. You know, we've been on it for a long time. And then also I have a studio director who I can sit back and trust, and she's making a lot of the more businessy decisions and leading the team from a management perspective. And I don't want to do that anymore. I really don't enjoy it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, well, it. I mean, it's so interesting to hear you say that. And I feel like we wrote On Business of Home, maybe it was five or six years ago now. Right. That. Okay. Jessica Helgerson has decided she's going to delegate. She's this studio.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And you were Going to turn a lot of it over. And how did that. How did that go?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Well, I hesitate to go into too much detail, but whatever.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You feel comfortable.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. The studio director who we hired at that point did not wind up being a good fit for the firm, nor did the second one, nor did the third one. But now we are on the 4th.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

But now the 4th one. Amazing. Amazing.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, I think. Listen, I mean, I think coming into someone else's business that they've run for all that time is a very hard thing to do. Well, and there are a lot of people who've been there a long time. We have two lead designers who've been with me for 15 years each. So there are a lot of opinions and there's a lot of established precedent, and it's not an easy thing to step into, but the current one has stepped in. I mean, her review was basically just a love song to her. So.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So everybody in the office just thought, oh, she's.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I think she finally.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

We found the right person.

[Jessica Helgerson]

She. I think she has the right personality. And then we. I think we have an absolutely near zero Venn diagram overlap. She loves spreadsheets and enjoys wrangling a personnel issue back into place and thinks of herself as a finance bro and doesn't like design decisions and finds them befuddling. And. But when she interviewed for the position, her interests on her resume were baking, sewing, learning French, and criminal justice reform. And I was like, what is the criminal justice reform? And she had been told by many people to take that off of her resume because it was unappealing, and I found it tremendous.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Whereas for you, that was like.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I was just like, I'm going to start writing. Tell me. And we have deeply aligned values and 100% contradictory skill sets. And so that's good.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And she sounds like she's an incredible counterbalance.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, I think she's an incredible counterbalance. And I'm. Yeah, you know, it's early days and sure, we'll see, but so far, so good. Yeah, it's interesting.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Do you feel, I mean, obviously people who follow you on social media closely or pay attention to what you talk about, they know that there is a values component, Right?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And I would assume that some people feel very aligned with that. And if they don't, then they're not calling you up to do their project.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Absolutely. Yeah, it has. I think that the quality of our clients has gone up as I have become more brave about saying things that I think matter.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

The quality of your clientele, the quality.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Of the clientele has improved. I just think that people who don't want to hear about any of that or find it distasteful or don't call us and that's okay, there's someone else for them. But yeah, I think that we, you know, in general are getting clients who are quite compassionate and have similar feelings about things. And yeah, and I think, you know, our design approach is a little bit aligned with. I'm just trying to articulate this because I've never said it before, but I feel like the kainos of listening based design approach, we're very much in response to the spaces that we're working in and the people we're working for is kind of aligned with listening to the problems in the world and not being closed off to them and kind of having an open listening heart.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break to remind designers about John Rosselli and Associates. Your go to destination for custom design solutions and an unparalleled selection of furniture, lighting, textiles and wallcovering. Celebrating 75 years of innovation, John Roselli partners with leading brands to offer endless customization options, ensuring every project is as unique as your vision. With a reputation for outstanding service and inspiring collections, they're here to support you every step of the way. Visit genraseli.com or explore their showrooms to discover how they can elevate your next design project. Follow them on Instagram for even more inspiration at John Rosselli Associates. And now back to the show. Well, I wonder what you're listening for.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Or what is most revealing that people share that give you a real indication both of who they are and what they really want?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, well, I think we are listening to two things. So the. With all of the interior architecture, all of those permanent things, I have found after doing this job for all of these years that basically humans want and need fairly similar things. They need a space to cook in, they like to eat, they like to sit or lay down, and they need to sleep and babe. So, you know, they're sort of like, right, so they're. None of us are that different really. So to me, the house is sort of. The architecture of the house dictates the way the interior architecture of the house should be. So for all of those permanent decisions, we're kind of listening to the house more than the client. And if the client is like, I want to open up the space, I want to have the living room, dining room and kitchen all combined and they've just bought like an old Victorian, yes, we can widen the openings, but I'm not going to knock out all the walls in the first floor. Like, I'm straight up not going to do that because I think that they may live in that house for 10 years. I think that the green approach that I had at the very start of my career has translated after all these years to just don't screw the house up. Like do job on the house that the house wants. And then all of the decorating can reflect the clients and their color sense and the art that they love. And are they modernists or traditionalists? I do not think the Victorian house needs to be a Victorian period set. I think that the Victorian house, when they move out of it and take their lighting and their furniture and their rugs and their art would be very nice if we hadn't also ruined it. So it's kind of, I kind of have two clients on every project. I have the, the house as a client and the client as a client.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And sometimes they're in conflict, it sounds.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Like, and sometimes they're in conflict. Yeah. And we, we advocate for the house for those permanent things. And, and I think generally like that has been spelled out fairly clearly and our portfolio is pretty reflective of that. And we talk about it openly in interviews and, and I think most of the people don't want to screw up their house. You know, mostly people bought a house that they either love or want to love and they're not against it, therefore their house. So I think typically that approach pleases most people. And then there are, I mean there are for sure architects and designers who are much more. And I, I think this is a very valid way to be. It's just not the way we are much more of like a strong artistic vision that they bring to every project. You know, you're going to get a John Smith house or whoever John Smith is in the guy, but, you know, and you're coming to him for that because it's always going to be white with big black things in it or whatever. And that's not us at all. Like, our portfolio is so diverse because we're always in like starting over, listening and responding mode.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And with the house driving so many of the decisions, it can't help but be a different looking project.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Totally. Right, Totally. Yeah. And which is fun. I think for me, at any rate, that has kept my interest and our firm fairly vital because it's fun to work on a new kind of thing. I want to do a, whatever a earth burned house in New Mexico. Or I would always rather work on the kind of project we haven't done yet than get formulaic. So yeah, it's fun. It keeps the creative juices flowing. I mean, it's a fabulous profession, I think in the sense of the depth that you can go into it. You just never stop learning. Right? I mean, the entire world of ceramics and tile is infinite. And then all of woodworking and all of the species and grain types and glassblowing and metalworking and then all of the kinds of architecture you can respond to and all the places in the country and other countries where they're also making cool things in interesting ways. And so it's just like you could live 20 lifetimes and not get bored with it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You mentioned the longevity of the firm and all that you've learned along the way. Where did you ultimately land? If you have a set structure about how you charge and whether you have a design fee or whether you charge by the hour, what did you figure out worked best for you?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Oh, we're hourly on our residential projects. We will sometimes do a fixed fee for large commercial projects, but yeah, we're hourly and then we charge a 30% markup on goods as long as that doesn't bring it above retail. So it's never a worse deal to have us do the purchasing.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And when you talk about your fee structure with, with clients, and frankly when you talk about clients just in general, about how much all of this costs these days, how do clients what between tariffs and just inflation in general, how do your clients feel about all of this? Do you find it's more challenging for them to digest?

[Jessica Helgerson]

I mean really, we can only work for pretty wealthy people. That's the truth of it. You know, it's a very expensive proposition. So we, I have a free friends and family policy which I, yes, I have designed so many of my friends kitchens and I like that really helps. And I, it's funny because you would think, well, you have the most useless skill of the entire planet. But the truth is a lot of people have space planning problems and a lot of people need design, design help. I mean I just helped. My, my son's best friend is moving into his mom's basement until he figures out the next steps. And I helped him space plan the basement yesterday. And last weekend I was on a three hour call with some friends in Paris who are buying a little tiny apartment. And we worked through all the details and so yeah, so that I think that's a way to give back because.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

This is your pro bono work that you're, that you're doing.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Okay, Okay. I love that. I want to talk about another. Another gift of generosity of yours, which is the 1% program. And let's tell people what that is.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Oh, sure. Yeah. Our office is in Portland in the Old Town area where a lot of the social services are. And, and there are a lot of people experiencing homelessness around us. And I was really struck and, you know, wrestled with the discrepancy of working out the most perfect detail for the backsplash of somebody's second kitchen while people are living in a tent right in front of our office. And we wound up doing a pro bono project for an organization called Portland Homeless Family Solutions. They have now changed their name to Path Home. And working with them, I realized how efficient they were with their funds and how much help they were offering the community. And I left that project wanting to do more. And so I had an idea of giving money to those, like unrestricted funds to those organizations. And, and so we set up something called the 1% project. We add 1% to all of our invoices and let it pile up so the money goes straight to them, to a fund. And then they contact us every month and let us know where we're at. And when we hit like 5,000 or 10,000, we'll give it to one of the nonprofits. And my idea at the time was that this, you know, we did a lot of work to set this up and made it very easy. It's like plug and play. All of the paperwork is done and I thought that it could go viral and that if other design firms and others in the business of home joined us, we could really do a lot of good. But what I discovered about myself was that I am good at that kind of front end stuff. But then the like hassling people at cocktail parties to join my organization, I was not able to do twisting people's arms. I did not want to go knock on their doors and bug them and be that guy who's a pain in their neck. So it's just us, but we have done quite a bit of good. And we've had some really generous clients who have not only done 1%, but like added on a whole bunch.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So let's take a step back and if there are people that hear this and say, oh, I would love to add 1% to right to our and 1% from our profit, I would love to support this. What did you have to do? What are the steps?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Oh, there's a website, there's a website, there's a website, there's a Link to the website on our website and it can be here in Oregon or elsewhere. They could pick the organizations they think are doing good work. So it doesn't have to be where we are giving our funds and it's.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Just an organization that would, as you say, take the funds and.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, so it just keeps it out of our pocket. So it's very tidy.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Jessica Helgerson]

We never touch the money.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And it sounds as if it's been rewarding for you, even if you're disappointed that more people didn't sign up and join and come along.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, I mean, I think. Has it been rewarding? I don't know. I mean, I think we've done little bits of good. I just see the need growing exponentially and our little contribution does a little something. But yeah, I think it would have felt more satisfying had it grown and were I to see like changes happening in the right direction of caring about people and thinking they shouldn't sleep on the sidewalk. And so I don't know, I don't feel too self congratulatory about it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

No, no. I mean, as you say, you thought or you hoped when you put the word out there that you were doing this, that just others would naturally come along and listen and fundraising and campaigning.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I know, it's a nightmare. Everybody wants your money. Everybody, everybody's got their cause. I get it, I get it. Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

Well.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And as we've been talking about throughout this conversation, it is for some, and it sounds like it is for you, one of the challenges of being in this very high end world where we are in service of this candidly billionaire class, and these days we feel, many, feel lots of conflicts around all of that. And yet this is how this high end design industry makes its living.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. And you know, simultaneously, like we are also really providing a living for a lot of artisans and artists and I love all of that. Those collaborations are fabulous. You know, people doing beautiful hand painting and interesting plaster work and beautiful cabinetry and all of that costs money and they charge plenty for it, you know, and they can live and we can live and so a lot of.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So that's the, that's the great other side.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Right. It's supporting all of the artisans and craftspeople and, and all of the beautiful things that get created as a result. And, and you've brought, you've brought some product onto your, onto your site and you've got some, right, you've got some fun lighting and some, some very sweet rugs with cats pulling clothes off hangers. And there's. There's some really fun stuff. Tell me about that and how you sort of tiptoed into all of that and is it working out for you?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, well, for a long time we were asked probably a decade ago whether we wanted to do a book. And I never have done the book yet I'm maybe going to do the book now.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

What were you holding out for?

[Jessica Helgerson]

It just felt like a waste of paper to me. It felt like our portfolio in print. It just like there's the website. Why do you need the. At any rate, when we talked about the book originally, the title, which I never liked either, but was something to the effect of designing from scratch. And it was a point of pride that we were always in this iterative process. We were always designing one offs, like it was all. We were always in the creative phase. And that felt. There was a certain lightness to that, I think, and a certain. Yeah, it just felt like a point of pride. And then at a certain point, Jason Miller from Roll and Hill reached out and he said, hey, do you want to design a lighting line? And I thought about it and I wound up designing two. And that process made me understand something that I hadn't really thought about before, which was that product design is iterative. You can do a prototype and then you can look at the prototype and think about the proportions and like really get it better and do a second round and send something out into the world that you didn't just like design and send out, but that you got to mess around with and experiment and think about a little bit harder. And I really love that process. And I thought, forget about designing from scratch. Like, this is cool, this is fun, this is interesting. I do, I think similarly to the 1% project, I love the inception phase, I love the creative phase. And then I completely lose interest once we get to the selling the things phase.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

That's why I was wondering how the lamps were doing.

[Jessica Helgerson]

The lamps are doing okay.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay.

[Jessica Helgerson]

The lamps are doing okay. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, they probably could be doing a lot better if we had retail partners. We're looking into, like, how to actually distribute this stuff because nobody comes to our website for shopping for stuff, so they have to like follow on Instagram or something or have seen it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

It's so you get excited at the beginning of the project and then.

[Jessica Helgerson]

And then it happens and I'm like, we're done. But yeah, we're not done.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Go sell yourselves you products.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

I've birthed you.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I know my work here is then off to college with you.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Yes, exactly. Tell me how you're doing later. Okay. So it turns out there's more there.

[Jessica Helgerson]

But I believe that our new studio director has shown some interest in this kind of thing. So we'll see what she does with it. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Okay. Okay. There you go. Once again, your perfect counterbalance. She's going to pick up that baton.

[Jessica Helgerson]

We shall see.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And bring those things to market. I hear they sell a lot of product on the Expert. Perhaps on the Expert.

[Jessica Helgerson]

We are on the Expert. So our products are on the Expert.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

There you go. That's a good step. Yeah, and, yeah. And speaking of which, I mean, and you and I spoke about this recently. I know you were, you were hesitant in the beginning about the Expert.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. Just like the book.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, but you seem to have turned around on it.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, yeah. So they reached out, I think pretty early on when they launched the website and then reached out fairly consistently for quite a while after that. And I thought I would never want to do that because like I, I couldn't not see things through. And so if anybody doesn't know, probably everyone listening knows. But the Expert is people pay a pretty significant fee to come and meet for either an hour, an hour and a half with designers.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

What's an hour of your time going for these days?

[Jessica Helgerson]

$1,300.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. On the Expert. Not right. That's my hourly rate. But yeah. And then finally I was like, oh, okay, I'll try, I'll try. So I did it and I love, love it. And I didn't know that I would, but I'm like, people come with. I am fully conscious of the thirteen hundred dollar fee. Like, I feel the weight of it.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You want to deliver for them.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. And I think they really feel the weight too. So they come super prepared and they come with all their design problems. And I tell them at the start we will absolutely get to a solution you like, so don't worry about the time too much. And then that kind of eases their mind and we just always get there and it's fun. It's fun. And I think it has made me like a more nimble, quick thinker about design stuff. And yeah, I absolutely love it. I think it's a great platform. I think it's really well run. The staff is super sweet. They're very responsive. The thing is never glitchy. It just, it's good. They did a good thing.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break to remind you about Leloy it's been quite a.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Year for the design industry.

[Dennis Scully]

That's why it's more important than ever to have partners you can trust to help you get the job done. Laloy is known in the design community for its commitment to craft and to its trade partners. Laloy's dedicated personalized sales representatives are here to help for years to come. Learn [e-mail] that's L O L-O I rugs.com and don't forget to follow laloyloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show. It's interesting in hearing you talk about.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Both your time on the Expert and how you've come around there, but also this very sweet friends and family projects that you get to do.

[Dennis Scully]

It's as though you get to keep.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Your hand in what might be, I imagine are, are much smaller projects.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Than you're normally doing for your high end residential clients. And so you get to sort of flex those muscles of having to be a little bit more creative and Right.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, definitely. And then it's all. You're always in schematic design, you know, it's always the start of something and, and schematic design is fun. It's that first like what's the plan and what's the concept? And that's fun to think about.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And it's interesting the different challenges. I was talking with an architecturally trained designer the other day and he was talking about doing his first townhouse and he didn't realize that townhouses space is actually quite constrained.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You think they're these great big things, but really the room are actually often very tight and the light only comes from one side of the place. So I mean there were so many challenges that one discovered that he found himself having to really work a very different side of his thinking.

[Jessica Helgerson]

The challenges are fun. I kind of like when something gets screwed up on a project and the response I think sometimes things get that go wrong are the opportunity for like a slightly oblique, quirky something that you might not have done in the first place. So I don't fully love it when things go wrong, but sometimes.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Oh well, of course. And certainly not on a big scale.

[Dennis Scully]

But it, but it's always interesting because.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You do learn so much more from what goes wrong or the mistakes. And yet so often we don't want to acknowledge missteps we've taken in the past. But really that's how we grew and learned.

[Jessica Helgerson]

No? I think so. Yeah. And just like I'm thinking Of one in particular. We were working on a project in Brooklyn, and we had a sort of traditional nosing on the stair and a fairly petite overhang. And the contractor built the stairs for the second time. He had already built the stairs wrong once. He built them wrong for the second time with a square nosing and a really deep overhang. And it was like. It just looked terrible. And we wound up creating this big molding that fit under the stairs so that the overhang connected back to the riser. And it wound up really cute and interesting and better than our, like, traditional standard thing we were gonna do. So sometimes that stuff works out.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So sometimes the mistake shows you some.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Other option that you hadn't considered. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that happens. Not a ton, but when it does, and you can solve it creatively, he doesn't have to rip it all out.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Right.

[Jessica Helgerson]

It's. It's kind of fun.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Something else that you've done recently is open up an office in Paris.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Correct?

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And I want to hear about that.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. Well, as I mentioned at the start, I have dual citizenship. I have half my family in France. Yeah. We had an intern 10 years ago, Mathieu Bonnard, who came to our office. He wrote, and he was from Vienne, which is a little, tiny town outside of Lyon where my cousin has a bookstore. And I was like, this guy is writing from Vienne. What is happening? And he was great. He's also good at staying in touch kind of person. So we stayed in touch over the years. And then my daughter did a semester abroad in high school, and I went with her. She was in Paris. And we got back in touch. Mathieu invited us over for dinner, and I thought, oh, I'd love to work for you again. He had been, at that point, six years with a Parisian design firm. And then the next day, I was walking in the Mare, and there was this incredibly cute little spot with a fur lease sign. And I called up just out of curiosity, and so we just jumped in. And it has been a really beautiful chapter for me, because my entire life, I have never really been at home in France. Like, I'm always visiting my grandma or my aunt or my cousin. I'm always a guest. I'm always. You know, and this has given me a real raison d'. Etre. So I'm there because I work there, and we have an apartment there now, and we have projects there now. And, well, it sound.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

When I talk to people who work in Paris and France in general, and there's a different perception about interior Design and people helping you and. What do you mean you need help and. Right, all of that.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. I mean, our clients have only been American at this point, and I assume that that will continue. I think that we are.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So there are Americans that want an apartment in Paris or something, and. Okay.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. And I think that's who our clients will be. I. I can't see us really moving into the French client base. The French designers also have a very different work method that I find really tricky. Like, they charge visibly, much less, but then they. They get kickbacks from everybody. So, like, the plumber gives them a kickback. And so Matthieu has been asked by workmen, like, how much do you want? And he's like, they're offering cash.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And he says, no, no, no, no, monsieur, no, no.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, exactly. So. And I just feel weird getting a kickback from the plumber. I just can't do it. So. But then on the other hand, we look really expensive compared to French firms who look very cheap. But then.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Jessica Helgerson]

So it's weird. It's a weird market. And. But yeah, it's fun. And then also just the opportunity to work in such different kinds of buildings, like, this is a whole new building type. And that's just fun that we just finished a project in a building that housed Louis XIV's musketeers. Like, how cool is that?

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, I was obsessing over this Rue de BAC project.

[Jessica Helgerson]

That's the one? Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Is that the one?

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Oh, okay.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was one of the. Not dumpy, but that was one of the projects that is. It needs a concept because there is no guide. So the.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Right.

[Jessica Helgerson]

The building has all this rich history, but then the entire building was remodeled and flipped just before we started working on it. And it was. It was just absolutely soulless, generic. Like, everything white can lights everywhere, weird modern, ugly cabinetry. And the clients didn't want to do a huge gut remodel with tons of woodwork. And, you know, they just didn't. And they didn't have an appetite for it. And so we had to come up with some guiding concept. And we did a bunch of research and digging, and I found this painting online of a musketeer. And it had this beautiful color palette of, like, warm grays and cool grays and kind of caramel tones and some orangey red. And I just thought that maybe this could be our guide. And so since the. The apartment itself really couldn't serve as a guide, that painting did. And that was fun. You know, that's just as fun as following a building, following a painting. You just need something to, like, hang your hat on.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

It sounds as though you don't imagine building out a great big firm there, but having a presence there. And it sounds like it gives you some more personal connections.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And you've got an apartment there now.

[Jessica Helgerson]

I have an apartment there now, yeah. My niece came and. Well, my cousin's daughter, I call her my niece came and stayed with her boyfriend recently, and my cousin comes for lunch and, like, it's my place and that is really different for me.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well. So where's all this going for you? I mean, where do you want this to take you?

[Jessica Helgerson]

I think I'm there. I don't have. I don't know.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

You're not longing for some boutique hotel to do or some pull you away?

[Jessica Helgerson]

I'm longing for a boutique hotel to do. Yeah, for sure, like, with a great budget and a wonderful client. But I feel fairly settled. I feel a lot of gratitude. I don't feel a ton of ambition. Yeah. I really like the team. I feel fortunate. We had a client who's become a very good friend who has spent the last decade at great Dixter Gardens, off and on, learning about garden design. And she recently opened her own firm. And I have had the immense good fortune of being a guinea pig. So we live on five acres outside of. Of Portland. And she has created just, I think, a masterpiece of a garden. And there's something really hopeful about, like, I think with all of the worries about the state of the world, looking forward to the next season is really.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Seeing what your garden brings you.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. And then I just enjoy weeding. I have a death meditation. Tell me more where I. I think about this great peaceful river that all humans and all plants and all animals from all the past and the future all find themselves in. And it's this great equalizer and the fortunate and the unfortunate.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And this is what you're thinking about while you're. While you're out weeding and having your hands in the dirt?

[Jessica Helgerson]

I do.

[Dennis Scully]

I do.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. I just.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

I think there's a lot to that. I think a lot of people find that to be a wonderful meditation.

[Jessica Helgerson]

It is. It is. Yeah. I'm just trying to. I just want to continue to try to show up as a decent human being for my short time on this earth and really not be shitty.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, that seems like a good approach. Right. To be a good human being and to model that. And I wish we had more people modeling being a good human being. Human being.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, some could do that.

[Dennis Scully]

Well.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And I mean, it seems as though. And again, I hope that people listening to this will want to learn more about the 1% project or will.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, that's great.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Of other ways that I feel like there are a lot of ways to give back in this industry, and those who have found success in this industry have so much to be given, grateful for, and.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

As you suggest.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. No, I mean, I feel. I mean, I feel very, very fortunate. And it's been fun. It's been a. And I think all the pain was useful, too. You know, I. I had. I not had any pain. I might be more of an asshole. Can I say bad words on your show? Of course.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Of course, yes. You know, so you think if you hadn't had the pain.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. I might be more entitled or thinking the world owes me something or. I think I. Yeah, I don't feel that way.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So. Wrapping up, Jessica, and you and I have talked about this in the past, but because I spend time at the New York School of Interior Design, and I'm thinking about design students when you talk, and I'm always thinking of how best to give them advice and counsel and how to think about coming into this industry.

[Dennis Scully]

And here you are talking about all of this pain.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And I want to frame that so that when they hear that, they know what you mean. Exactly. And I don't want to sugarcoat it.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

So tell me, when you talk about the pain or the growth that comes from it, what do you mean exactly?

[Jessica Helgerson]

I think that working with humans is difficult. Difficult can be difficult. And sometimes people are angry or entitled or hard to please. Sometimes people do imperfect work, and projects are hard to manage. I mean, it's just a tremendous. I think at this point, I feel I care a lot about our projects, but I also don't suffer personally from all of it. But I think as I grew and as I began, I clung more fiercely. I think I have a lighter hold on it all. There's just more to hold. If I was clinging fiercely at every single aspect of the whole office, I would be first a nightmare of a boss, and then so, you know, I trust that the employees are. If they're working from home, they're working. I trust that the contractors are doing their job. I trust that the project managers at our office are managing the projects. And, yeah, it's a lighter hold on it all. And I had a much firmer and more painful hold on it at all. You know, I think I had insecurity at the start that people weren't working hard enough and whatever. And now I think that, you know, the cl. If the clients are horrible, I'm not here for it. I'm not. I'm just not going to take it. And I think they sense that, and so they're rather respectful, you know, And I think in the past, I just. I cared fiercely. I was depressed, just starting. I wanted to please them so much, and they probably sensed that insecurity. And as a result, we're not always so kind. Now I just, you know, I want them to be respectful to me and to our staff, and I want the staff to be respectful to each other. I have, like, zero tolerance for little backbiting, gossipy stuff. No, zero. Like, will not have it. It. And so, yeah, so I. I think all of that has been a big, long learning lesson of how to manage something. You know, it's not enormous, but it's. It's bigger than it was in a way that feels sustainable for my mental health and sustainable for the staff. And. Yeah, I want to find joy in. In life and be useful, but also not burn myself out, which is a.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Big part of it, because a lot of people are burning themselves out.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah. Yeah. So I just. I think that the clinging to, like, I. I don't want to accept that feeling of, like, that I'm on to the next thing. I just. I want it to be enough, you know, I feel like it's enough. I. I get excited about the next project, but I'm not. Like, I don't have a. I don't want to be in a feeling of insufficiency or discontent or. I think I feel content.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

It sounds like you've found lots of other ways to fill your. Fill your cup and.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Yeah, that's helped. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

Well, I. That's. That is. I mean, we've learned a lot about how we can. How we can do more to perhaps fill our own cups in this conversation. So I'm delighted about that and I'm thrilled at the opportunity to get to talk to you. And congratulations again on being named to the AD100.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Thank you very much.

[Interviewer (possibly a co-host or guest interviewer)]

And for everything that's happening for you, I look forward to the book and I thank you again for your time.

[Jessica Helgerson]

Thank you, Dennis. I appreciate it.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops. A free print, subscription and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.