Dennis Scully (2:01)

So that's the one place that you're willing to compromise because I.

Amber Lewis (2:05)

Sure.

Dennis Scully (2:05)

I mean, I was wondering, although you.

Amber Lewis (2:07)

Can get a washable rug and put.

Dennis Scully (2:08)

It wherever you want, right?

Amber Lewis (2:09)

That's also fine.

Sharon Drenko (2:10)

Yeah.

Emily Arthur (2:11)

Josie. Washable. Look.

Amber Lewis (2:12)

See this? See, now I've got washable rugs. It's wild. What category don't we do?

Dennis Scully (2:19)

To learn more, visit Maloy rugs.com that's L O L O Y rugs.com and now back to the show.

Dennis Scully (2:30)

Well, I'm delighted to have you and been eager to have this conversation for some time. We wrote about the the start of Isla Porter a while back and I've been eager to hear how it's all going and what you've learned through this process. But before we get into all of that. Let's tell people a little bit about.

Dennis Scully (2:49)

Both of your extensive home backgrounds.

Dennis Scully (2:54)

Emily, let's start with you. Tell me.

Emily Arthur (2:56)

Yeah, so I, for many years have been in the furniture space, not the custom cabinetry space. And so I started Martha Stewart, but spent most of my time at West Elm. And there I really was on furniture and lighting primarily, but worked with a lot of different spaces within the brand, designing for them and eventually being over a lot of the design departments there. So I had a lot of great education and product development and furniture, and so that's my background. And then I met the lovely Sharon Dranco at my time at West Elm.

Sharon Drenko (3:32)

Yeah, so I was with Emily at West Elm for quite some time. More in the sourcing and product development and eventually merchandising side. So all of that just means taking the designer's visions and bringing them to life and presenting them to the client in a really compelling way. So between the two of us, we've got a pretty rounded out product experience, I'd say.

Dennis Scully (3:54)

And at what point do you start to have conversations about possibly wanting to explore this new area that you've entered into?

Emily Arthur (4:04)

We were in West Elm and a lot of the culture there was really around, you know, looking at the market and at Whitespace. So we were really trained to look at all these different areas in home. And we both had renovated our homes in the past and in the kitchen space primarily felt like there wasn't really a product lens on how you start a kitchen renovation that we were so used to in our furniture backgrounds. We really wanted to set out to create more of an environment of looking at the kitchen space as a product and all the different door styles, all the shelves, all the hoods, these were kind of disparate choices that you were kind of pinning or finding in other Pinterest like environments versus in a shopping experience. So already we felt like the building material space was seeing more like innovation in how the products were being presented. Beautiful websites, there's Waterworks, for instance. They were kind of the original, creating really a much more luxury experience around a very less luxury space and plumbing in the past. So we really saw that and said, why hasn't this really happened in the same way?

Sharon Drenko (5:17)

Well, I think we just kept seeing so many new furniture brands pop up, new startups every day, especially during the COVID timeframe and all of that. And having renovated our own homes, we're just like, why? Why is no one tackling cabinetry? It's so dusty. There's nothing really inspiring. And cabinetry ultimately is a permanently installed product. It's not just a sofa or a credenza that you move and take with you replace. It's there permanently, and it drives the value of your home. So we really wanted to give, not just ourselves, but the. The industry, some. Some better options than a white or gray shaker cabinet. That's all that's really out there.

Emily Arthur (5:55)

Yeah, well, so.

Dennis Scully (5:57)

And what was that that you were looking at? So what was the gray shaker cabinet that comes up in the origin story of all of this? I mean, what was out there that was leading the market at the time?

Sharon Drenko (6:09)

Well, I think Em and I, despite being product people, were not interior designers when we were doing our own renovations. We started the average client, the average customer, and you start looking online at all, of course, the DTC folks that are out there, but then also just the cabinetry showrooms. And that is what dominates that market. If you really want to get something unique and forward and really personal, you have to work with a custom millworker, just like so many designers do. But we didn't even know how to really approach and find great millworkers. And so many of those guys, they're booked up for years, so it just really wasn't accessible to us.

Dennis Scully (6:48)

And was this something that you were.

Dennis Scully (6:50)

Looking at with an eye towards West.

Dennis Scully (6:52)

Elm, possibly doing something in this space, or was this just something that fascinated you both while you were doing other research in product categories and thought, gee, there's an opportunity here?

Emily Arthur (7:03)

Yeah, it was just something that we always were looking at as just consumers. So, I mean, of course, we're product design development, so we think of everything with that lens. But, yeah, it was just something that we felt like was an exciting part of the market that after being in furniture and watching all these other furniture companies arise. Yeah, I was like, why isn't anyone really tapping into this?

Dennis Scully (7:27)

And what did you make of what IKEA was doing, which I think, like, so many people would point to as. Right, like, the accessible part of that space.

Emily Arthur (7:36)

Absolutely. I mean, IKEA is great. They really have it honed to such a manufacturing level where they've really, like, made every sku very shoppable and easy to understand. I think what was missing was the in between. There was the very high end of the beautiful English brands and all that, but then there was ikea, and of course, there's companies, like, with the door fronts that you could come in and kind of customize. But even, you know, people like executives in. In my. In the design space in my industry were using semi Handmade and other things like that, which was great. But then they were also using mill workers to make extra parts, like hoods or islands or parts like that. And we're like, there's gotta be a way to pull in the middle and really get a big breadth of assortment in terms of design, but also get all these kind of more furniture style elements that you need to fill out that space from one place versus having to kind of project manage across so many different vendors.

Sharon Drenko (8:36)

Yeah, I installed an IKEA kitchen with custom fronts in my own. You did?

Emily Arthur (8:41)

Yeah.

Sharon Drenko (8:41)

That's part of. I guess, in a way, that's part of the origin story. I mean, I did it myself. I'm not a kitchen designer, but I figured it out. I. I used the IKEA tool, and it's a great product and it's a great price point. But if you're not looking for that frameless look, if you're looking for something a little more traditional, a framed cabinet, an inset cabinet, there's not really a good option out there. And, you know, I had wanted a reed door, a fluted door, arch door, and it just wasn't there. So that's when Em and I really started to get talking about this. She had renovated her kitchen in the past, and we just came together and started listing out all of these millwork trends that we really just weren't seeing in an accessible way. And she started designing into those. And as we got going, we're like, all right, we need to start figuring out how we bring this to life. We're product development people. So we started looking for a manufacturer and eventually found someone that manufactured in Asia. That's just what's familiar to us. That's what we've spent our.

Dennis Scully (9:40)

That's where we would go to find the resources. Sure.

Sharon Drenko (9:43)

Yeah, exactly. We've spent our years traveling and developing product in Asia, so that was natural to us. And one of the manufacturers we looked at had been manufacturing cabinetry in Asia for roughly 30, 30 years for the US market. Had a pretty good kind of showroom line, but was really looking for what's next. What's. How do I make this special? How do I enter into the higher, higher end market? And so we kind of came together with him and shared with him what we were doing from a design perspective. And he said it was just so amazing, and he want invest in us. And so. So we took him up on that and signed our investment deal in June of 2023, and then actually in June of 2024 a year to the Day just by coincidence, we got our website.

Emily Arthur (10:30)

Up just by coincidence. Oh, my gosh.

Sharon Drenko (10:35)

The date wasn't planned. There was a ton of hard work.

Emily Arthur (10:38)

In that we were getting closer to that date. And we're like, we can do this. Let's. Let's do this. So, yeah, we were really proud to get our site up. I mean, it was so fun to get to realize a brand of your own making and get that up into the world. That was an exciting day.

Dennis Scully (10:53)

Take me through the timeline of. So this guy gets excited. He. He wants to invest.

Dennis Scully (10:58)

He's.

Dennis Scully (10:59)

He thinks your ideas are great. Have you left West Elm at this point?

Emily Arthur (11:04)

We were out of this.

Dennis Scully (11:04)

You both have made the decision. Yeah, we're throwing ourselves into this.

Emily Arthur (11:08)

Yeah.

Dennis Scully (11:09)

Right.

Emily Arthur (11:09)

Well, I was freelancing at the time, and.

Dennis Scully (11:11)

Okay.

Emily Arthur (11:12)

Um, yeah. And Sharon actually lived three minutes away, so we.

Dennis Scully (11:18)

Oh, so you were getting together and getting yourself excited, Right?

Sharon Drenko (11:21)

Okay.

Dennis Scully (11:21)

Yeah.

Emily Arthur (11:21)

And before I had left, we were commuting all the time together. So Sharon and I are good friends first. So. Yeah. And, you know, like most good friends, you ask advice on what wallpaper should I do in my house, what about this and that? So naturally, as we do, we also talk about brands all the time. What's going on with brands? And we listen to Boh and say, oh, my God, like, can you believe this is happen? So, yeah, I mean, we kind of just dared ourselves and jumped in and said, well, you know, we're just going to keep kicking this down the road and see what traction it gets. And if we find someone who's interested in doing it that sees our vision, then it was, like, serendipitous. It just kind of all fell into place really fast. And so we were like, yeah, let's do this. So then I just started rendering and rendering and modeling and designing, and Sharon and I started mapping and naming and. And we started pulling references for branding. And that was like the fun days in our, you know, home offices, just coming up with what we wanted this brand to be.

Sharon Drenko (12:24)

I'd say it was probably three or four months of just us alone over the summer trying to figure out the brand name. That was hard enough to sort through.

Emily Arthur (12:33)

Very hard.

Sharon Drenko (12:35)

And then finding a branding agency selling to visually driven folks like interior designers is tough. And we knew we needed to look top notch and come out of the gate with a beautiful brand that was appealing to the design community and kind of, in a way, aesthetically agnostic, because that's a lot of what Em and I talked about while we were designing and concepting the line is we wanted something that was, yes, in that traditional vein. As we all know, that traditional British aesthetic is pretty pervasive right now and definitely not going away. But we wanted an answer for the modern look. And I think what em you really excel at is that feminine kind of transitional look that was so successful for you and your furniture career. And that was something that was just completely missing from millwork. So that's where a lot of, like, these arches and kind of special feminine details are coming from.

Emily Arthur (13:28)

Yeah, I mean, I was. When I was first hired at West Elm as a kid, I was the token woman that was asked to basically bring the femininity into the brand. At the time, mid century didn't exist. It was all very, like, Christian Liagra, Holly Hunt, like, very blocky, modern. And it was the people leading that team, who are still dear friends, were all men. So I came from Martha. I was studying a lot of very traditional turnings and things like that. And I was. I was excited because I really wasn't a traditional designer. I myself thought of myself as modern, but I found myself to be very transitional. So in that sense, coming into the kitchen space, I was like, this is kind of what I feel like is key, is how do we bring this tradition into homes, Be respectful of the architecture, but still give it a little wink and a nod to make it feel of this time something that someone in today's world would identify with and be excited about spending the time to really do a kitchen renovation with this beautiful design to execute on. So.

Sharon Drenko (14:40)

And we needed to stand out. There's no shortage of cabinetry brands. There's. There's plenty of them out there. So it really just relying on that aesthetic to kind of communicate what our brand values and ethos really is, was. Was so important. So we spent a lot of time there. Like we said, it was about a year from signing that investment deal until we got the site up. And so for part of that, because branding takes so long, we were just two ladies with a PowerPoint deck trying, trying to get people on board with our vision. And our marketing lead was one of our first hires. She actually, she comes from obviously the business of home background.

Emily Arthur (15:17)

She's.

Sharon Drenko (15:18)

She's led marketing for a lot of amazing trade brands and also has a kitchen background. So we reached out to her first, and she believed in the brand. And then from there on out, she helped us kind of concept how we would reach designers. And the first thing we did was say, you know, Samantha, we are not interior designers. We're not kitchen Designers, we're product people. So we need to get some really amazing design talent on board to help build trust. And we made, we spent so long making lists of people we wanted to reach out to. And we thought, all right, we'll list our A, B, C folks out. We went out, reached out to the A people and they all said yes. We couldn't believe it. Just again, a couple ladies with a pitch deck. But I think there's been such a need in the industry for cabinetry, for some a trade brand to really come in. To my knowledge, we're the only like trade first cabinetry business out there. 85% of our businesses is to trade. 15% is to homeowners. So luckily Jenna Chuzid, Ann McDonald and Monica Steward of Misfit House signed on. They designed three amazing kitchens with our kit aparts hand in hand with Emily and our kitchen design team. And we built those out in Long Island City in September of 2024. And then somehow we got like nearly 300 folks from the New York design community to take a bus over to Long Island City from what's new? What's next at 200 lex to see kind of what we were imagining for the next iteration of the cabinet business.

Dennis Scully (16:50)

Well, so take me back to.

Dennis Scully (16:53)

That's also interesting how the trade part all falls into place and that Samantha.

Dennis Scully (16:58)

Hyer was a good one.

Dennis Scully (17:01)

But I'm curious. So you mentioned being so thoughtful around.

Dennis Scully (17:05)

The branding and the visual and how.

Dennis Scully (17:08)

Did you land on the name and tell me about the back and forth there?

Emily Arthur (17:14)

Because I'm sure that it's a really romantic story and maybe it is, I don't know. It's a startup romantic story. But basically we knew that we wanted to get a name that we had to trademark. Everything that related to cabinetry had already been taken. So then we just had to scrap it all. And we got out our handy dandy corporate Excel sheet and started writing down names. And I think we had like nearly 60 different names.

Sharon Drenko (17:45)

Is that right?

Emily Arthur (17:45)

Yeah. And we were trying to whittle it down and it's like naming your child and it's so hard. It's like, I have to live with this name and what's the meaning behind it. But really we decided like, okay, well, we're a female founded company. We want it to have the sense that there's some woman behind the scenes here doing all this amazing work. But we have a bigger team. We have lots of different kitchen designers that are working with us and we want and also our, you know, partners from the trade that would be using our products. So Isla Porter is really just. Isla is referencing Islands as a product and Porter is services, the services we provide and designing our kitchens or helping through the process of getting your kitchen designed and then sent. So Isla Porter, Island Services coming together. That's where the name came from.

Sharon Drenko (18:41)

So. Well, I think you also had a good point. While we were going through that naming process, you said product brands tend to have two names, two names, and tech brands have one. You know, like, yeah, Warby, Parker, West, Elm, like, you can go on. So we really. That's how we landed on two names. We also came out pretty strong with that AI message in the beginning, and we wanted to personify it a little bit more and make people think that they were, you know, maybe working with a real person. It wasn't like this big scary tech beast where, you know, robots were designing your kitchen. So that was also part of this.

Dennis Scully (19:16)

Well, and so tell me more about that, Sharon, because.

Dennis Scully (19:19)

So the AI part of this was. Was an important wrapper around this brand. Right. And how it first came into the world. And let's, let's talk about what that really means and how the whole thing works.

Sharon Drenko (19:33)

Yeah. So you were asking what our learnings were earlier, Dennis and I can't wait to hear. One of our biggest learnings is maybe we came out too strongly with that AI messaging in the beginning. At the end of the day, Em and I are product people. We're design folks. We have a strong point of view and aesthetic on our end, and that's really inherent to us. That's inherent to the brand, and that's what we want people to take away, is that we are a design brand. Part of being innovative in starting this new business was trying to find new ways to get this product to people. So kitchen design, it's no secret, it's really cumbersome. It's time consuming, it's difficult. So we started looking at AI. This was back in, you know, mid to early 2023, when AI was still kind of just starting to come out, was very buzzworthy. And we were fortunate to find Skip AI. And they have really great solutions for businesses in the kitchen space. And we do use them to this day. But. But we probably shouldn't have led with that messaging. That's not what the design community that we're targeting really wants to hear about. We're more excited to tell them about all the work that we're doing behind the scenes to bring them better product and better designs and support them and collaborate them with them. Ultimately, we also use the Microsoft suite to run our business, but we're not going out and making a big message about that. So, yeah, AI is part of our business. Doing things in new ways is part of our business for sure. Even beyond that, the AI tool is great for support and just like that, technical backend, the time consuming piece of laying out a designer's vision with our exact cabinetry cases. And then it also really helps us drive to a rendering more quickly. But certainly there's no, you know, robots mysteriously behind the scene laying out your kitchen. We're usually taking designers elevations that they're already sending us and just kind of translating them into the isleporter system.

Dennis Scully (21:30)

Thank goodness we have cleared that up.

Sharon Drenko (21:32)

Yes.

Dennis Scully (21:33)

That there are no robots involved in the process. But it sounded as though you were cleverly jumping on what some of the exciting aspects of AI were. Hey, it's gonna save you a bunch of time. We've got this great lidar technology that's gonna measure some stuff for you more easily. And it just sounded like it was going to help cut down on the.

Dennis Scully (21:55)

Amount of time in the whole process.

Dennis Scully (21:57)

Yes.

Sharon Drenko (21:57)

Is that right?

Emily Arthur (21:58)

And the lidar piece has, is great, like being able to get a quick scan. I mean, we, we tell people, give yourself 15 minutes. Some people can do it much faster. But yeah, you scan your space, we get it, and then we're able to start your project and just have conversations about what you're looking for in your kitchen without having this huge, like, weight of. I, you know, I don't know how to measure, like, how do I do this? So it just gets us closer to having conversations about what, what the client, the designer, is really looking for in the space. So it's great.

Sharon Drenko (22:30)

Yeah, I agree. The lidar has been a game changer for us. It's just really helpful for all of us on the team to get into a client space and just walk around and understand what the designers are seeing and the challenges they're trying to solve for. You open the app, you take, like Em said, about 10, 15 minutes to scan the space. Once that's all complete, you can see this quick little model, quick gut check that you captured every nook and cranny of the space and then you stop and you do a panel. So you just pivot in one place and your phone uses light signals that it shoots out from the camera to kind of detect the distance. And somehow, I'm not a tech person, but somehow in the back end, all of that gets knitted together.

Emily Arthur (23:12)

Yes.

Sharon Drenko (23:13)

And you can kind of create this walkthrough model like you've seen in a lot of real estate listings. And then beyond that, you're also able to get a first pass at measurements. Those measurements are roughly 95% accurate.

Dennis Scully (23:24)

That's.

Sharon Drenko (23:25)

That's obviously not accurate enough to cut a custom cabinetry order where it's custom up to 16th of an inch. But it's enough for us to get the project started, which is half the battle. Measurements are not really the challenges that we've run into when we're going through an installation. I don't think that's ever been a case for us. I think our biggest challenges are just the same things that designers really encounter in their own projects. It's just making sure that everyone on site is aligned with expectations and kind of just driving to that end result at the final mile.

Dennis Scully (23:55)

Well, so tell me more about that.

Dennis Scully (23:57)

What have you discovered in that process?

Sharon Drenko (23:59)

Yeah, so, yeah, what have we discovered in that process? We've learned a lot. We distribute nationally. Right. So actually our biggest market right now is Hawaii, but we distribute nationally.

Dennis Scully (24:11)

Hopefully that's taking you to a lot of job sites.

Dennis Scully (24:13)

Hopefully you're having to spend a lot.

Sharon Drenko (24:14)

Oh, wish I wish.

Dennis Scully (24:16)

Okay.

Sharon Drenko (24:17)

One day we keep joking. We'll open a showroom in Hawaii. But we distribute nationally, so there's no way for us to be in every single market. If I was telling folks that I had a good installer in every market, you know, that should be a red flag to everyone. We really rely on the designers to know their local trades and wherever they're at. And also that the designers are on the ground delivering a luxury premium experience. Ultimately, we could never do that. We really need them to kind of create that magic for their client at this price point. That's what we, those clients are expecting. So we could never do that. So the designers are certainly a big piece of that.

Dennis Scully (24:59)

So let's go back to June. So let's go back a year later. After you get the investment, you got all the ideas and you got the branding down, the website goes up. And originally, were you thinking that you were going to get more consumers than designers? Did the designer thing sort of come as a surprise and great. Lean into. Into that or tell me how it all started to happen once that site went up and the word was out.

Sharon Drenko (25:22)

So the design community is really just our natural customer. Em and I love product. We love design. We love interior designers. We've been following some, like celebrity interior designers for years.

Emily Arthur (25:36)

We really, you know, not actually following.

Dennis Scully (25:39)

Them around the Neighborhood, but, you know, on social. Nothing. Stalking. No, no, it's all good.

Dennis Scully (25:44)

Yeah.

Sharon Drenko (25:44)

Yeah. They're just. There's a natural synergy between us product people and the interior design community. And we. We always wanted to go after the interior design trade just because we can go after homeowners, and they're gonna renovate maybe one, two kitchens in their lifetime, barring them having all of these amazing second vacation homes.

Dennis Scully (26:05)

They.

Sharon Drenko (26:06)

They are not experienced, and renovation is, you know, it's an emotionally charged time. So we, you know, we weren't really chasing the homeowners. We were going after the designers who were on the ground creating those magical premium luxury experiences for their own clients that naturally understood the quality of the product, the design value of our product, and really would bring us multiple projects over years. That was really the. The idea behind that is building relationships with people who will do, hopefully 10 kitchens with us rather than one or two.

Emily Arthur (26:39)

And the other thing that's really magical about it is when we were working in product in our own isolated brands, we really could only curate a vision based on the products within that brand. With what we're doing with Isla, when we get to work with these interior designers, first we get to see our cabinetry kit of parts through their lens. So they're putting together parts from our line that I would never have thought of. But then also they're layering in all this other beautiful FF&E. So they'll pick a beautiful chandelier that I wouldn't have expected with a particular cabinet or like, just how they're mixing the tile and the backsplash and having. For a homeowner that's working with someone, an interior designer, they're really getting that full handheld experience that we can't do remotely for them. So it's someone there to help them understand what's the best location for the hardware to be placed on this cabinet. And really helping them through these decisions of. Of, oh, well, your home has this beautiful tile in another part of the house that we can echo that here in this space. So having a full service partner like that to really help the homeowner make comfortable decisions that they're happy with is just a benefit to us, but it also makes it really fun for us to see. When we see the renderings, it's like, oh, my God, look. Look what they're doing. It's just, like, so exciting to see what all these interior designers are coming.

Dennis Scully (28:01)

Up with to that point. Do you end up wanting to incorporate some of what you've seen from these projects into what you're doing. And has that been part of the process along the way?

Emily Arthur (28:11)

I think what we found is we get more excited about certain design trends that we're seeing and then we get more validation when certain interior designers will pick those things. We think that purple is really trending, but then all of a sudden we get all these calls and they're like, oh my God, we're developing that color already. Look at us. So, yeah, I think it's, it's validating because we are, you know, Sharon and I just like love to consume beautiful interior design images. And so it's just, it's exciting to kind of be part of it and be on the inside with, with these great designers.

Sharon Drenko (28:47)

We do get a lot of custom requests. We are at the end of the day a fully custom brand. And Emma's a product designer. We have a staff of product designers and engineers behind us. So we frequently will get designers coming to us with a back of a napkin sketch. And you know, sometimes those things defy physics and what wood movement can do and all of that. But what is really different about what we're bringing to the table is we're collaborative. Where a millworker might just say, yes, I can do that. They can, they can do a version of it, but they're not always as well versed as we are and definitely don't take as collaborative of approach to say like, I can do it, but here's the things we might need to change. And by the way, here's the running of what, what this is actually going to look like. So, you know, ahead of install day, what exactly to expect. And we're very respectful of our design partners. We have enough of our own design ideas that we're working on. We're not going to try and take your vision and bring that into our own line. That's certainly not something we're doing. We're just here to be that custom support for you.

Dennis Scully (29:51)

This month I'm catching up with Amber Lewis about her new rug collection for the loy.

Dennis Scully (29:57)

But, but I wonder in, in your design practice if you have rug guidelines, if, if you have certain things that are just an absolute and, and what.

Amber Lewis (30:09)

Some of those are color, tone, texture, size. I mean, that's how quick I can wrap that off. You can't have too small of a rug. Scale is important. So I love that we offer some really beautiful sizes and a lot of really large room size rugs. I mean, ultimate big. They're not small anymore. Majority of homes are larger. We've really tapped into the bigger room size rugs, which I love. Color, tone, texture, nothing too scratchy underfoot. Nothing is worse than feeling like it feels fake under your foot. I don't know. Like, if it is a poly blend, it's great, so long as it's soft and doesn't feel plasticky. And I think that this is exactly how all these rugs feel underfoot. Color, the tone, all of those things are really gorgeous. Like I said, they're neutral enough that they could be in any space, they could go with any myriad of colors.

Dennis Scully (31:00)

Getting back to size because.

Dennis Scully (31:02)

And this is an area where I do think people feel like they don't fully understand, or this is where people seem to make a mistake.

Dennis Scully (31:10)

I may have made that mistake myself in the past, just getting a rug.

Dennis Scully (31:14)

That'S too small for the space. And what was I thinking and why did I do that and what was I worried about? When really, to your point, more rug the better, right?

Emily Arthur (31:24)

Yeah.

Amber Lewis (31:24)

When in doubt, rug it out.

Sharon Drenko (31:26)

I don't know.

Amber Lewis (31:26)

Go big, get all your furniture on it.

Sharon Drenko (31:28)

Gosh darn it.

Dennis Scully (31:30)

To learn more, visit loloyrugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and now back to the show.

Dennis Scully (31:41)

So there's a whole level of designer that is very used to doing custom millwork, right? And they've got their people and they've been doing that, and that's just how they roll. Right. For somebody who is thinking about this as an option, what's the difference in terms of the process? What do you. I mean, what do you tell them is going to be a different experience versus doing custom millwork from a timing standpoint, from a cost standpoint, sort of all of that. Help me understand.

Sharon Drenko (32:12)

Well, the easiest one to start with is cost. So we're roughly 15 to 60% less than our branded counterparts. We've taken the one kitchen that was kind of pretty standard, about a 30 linear foot kitchen when we've gone, and we've priced that with all of our competitors just for our own gut check to understand where we're falling in the market. And that's where we're sitting. We have a really great value proposition in terms of the process. I really think it comes down to that collaboration piece where if you have custom ideas, our team, led by Emily, is going to sit down and really help you work through what that could look like.

Dennis Scully (32:46)

What have you found? So you identify this opportunity and fortunately you go and you get this investment and you find this great partner and is this great Partner, still your partner and still your manufacturing partner. And are they feeling good about this whole thing? Are they excited about the growth and all of that, and do they want to play a bigger role or do, I mean, do you need more funding? Is there more money that you need? I mean, now's the time to tell us we can get the word out.

Sharon Drenko (33:15)

Yeah, Any founder that starts a successful business, it's both a combination of skill and, yes, luck. And we took our time and made some really smart, calculated decisions with our, you know, who was our investor, who was our manufacturer. Ultimately, those ended up being the same thing. So we have a strategic investment partner that is a publicly traded company that has manufactured product overseas for years. So we have this amazing world where we are this startup company that is doing things in a new, fresh way and they give us a lot of leeway to operate on our own. But we do, at the end of the day, have a really strong backbone and a lot of support, both from a financial perspective and operationally. I'm really proud to say that in 2026, we're headed to a point of profitability next year. And that's really amazing for a product business that's really been selling at market for a year and a half, two years. We really prioritized operational efficiencies and scaling responsibly that that's led to this. And we want to be around for, for the long haul. We have a lot of really exciting brand extensions that we're looking at in this coming year. Really exciting retail partnerships that are going to layer on all of that. So not necessarily looking to raise. We have a really happy kind of status with, with the partners that we have already, but always open to, to new conversations. I think we get asked a lot about the domestic production piece. Right. Because we do proudly manufacture overseas in Cambodia. And I'm surprised you haven't asked me about tariffs yet.

Emily Arthur (34:49)

I know.

Dennis Scully (34:49)

Well, you know, I'm saving it, I'm saving it. But, but I. Because I wanted to hear more, I wanted to hear more about this entrepreneurial experience for you and I really want to. I mean, because you, you had so much experience in the industry, so you're super savvy and you're thoughtful and, and you've really. And you've been getting together and talking this through. Right. So, I mean, this wasn't off the cuff, on the fly or on an impulse. You've got all this data that you've been able to look at over the years, but still, regardless, you start a business and There are, right, and there are things that surprise you or you didn't realize this was going to be as challenging or so what, Tell me some of that.

Emily Arthur (35:32)

I mean, I think Sharon and I use this phrase all the time, the startup conundrum. What do you plan for? Do you plan for the next six months or do you plan for two years from now where your business is going to be? So it's really like, like the things that we didn't expect to be challenging are just how to scale responsibly in the right time to meet the demand, which is, you know, just any startup's thing. But when you're working in corporate and you're, and you're working on designs and season over season you get into a routine of that part you don't have to think about. But yeah, I mean we've learned a lot about, you know, who our customer is, what they want to hear from us. They really are interested in hearing about us as people, which is always surprising. That we're two women or two mothers doing a startup and a pretty complicated one, I'll say.

Sharon Drenko (36:27)

And we don't have that traditional entrepreneurial background. Right. Like we didn't go to some top B school, we didn't get VC funding. That wasn't our path. And I think it happens differently for everyone. And what's really interesting is, is kind of what I'm saying. People are responding to our story because so many interior designers are just middle aged women like us with a really great creative vision and we found a way to make it happen. And so often people are coming to us kind of asking like how we've done it. And you know, I'm here to say we're figuring it out just like everyone else. We have amazing resources behind us to help us do that. And we're also trying to find new ways to do that with our clients. For example, we have a few strategic partners like Jordan Fairchild. She's an amazing designer in High Point, North Carolina. We just did this great marketing event and Antiques Crawl with a crew of interior designers in High Point and we were just kind of spitballing with her, talking about new ways to shape her business and refine her business and evolve that. And she just launched Virtual design kind of as a part of that conversation. And we're just trying to find ways to even offer our team services out, out to the interior design community. There's a lot of coaches out there, but I've got amazing finance people, I've got amazing product designers and that's something we've been toying around with is actually offering almost like office hours to chat with us because we learn so much from the interior design community when we hear their challenges and then we have information that we can kind of share with them as well. From our.

Emily Arthur (37:53)

Yeah, we hear a lot of people that are like, we want to launch a product line or things like that. And it's like, okay, well, that's very different than being an interior designer.

Sharon Drenko (38:04)

So.

Dennis Scully (38:04)

So let us take you through that.

Sharon Drenko (38:06)

Yeah.

Emily Arthur (38:07)

So this is how long it takes from start to finish to plan a product line.

Sharon Drenko (38:11)

Let me tell you something about inventory management.

Emily Arthur (38:13)

Oh, let's talk about logistics. You want to ship that. Okay.

Amber Lewis (38:18)

Right, well.

Dennis Scully (38:19)

And so designers, I mean, they were.

Dennis Scully (38:22)

Inundated by those challenges, the logistic challenges.

Dennis Scully (38:25)

During COVID Absolutely. Everybody was suddenly a truck driver and everything was showing damaged and.

Dennis Scully (38:31)

Right.

Dennis Scully (38:31)

And that was. And that was a nightmare. And I think everyone is still figuring all of that.

Emily Arthur (38:36)

Oh, absolutely.

Dennis Scully (38:37)

Because I think damages and shipping is nightmarish issue. And then it got wildly expensive on top of it all. I mean, inflation in the home industry has been so beyond what we see in the CPI numbers, whether it's the shipping part of it or the materials part of it. And then. Wait for it, here it comes. So in the middle of all those challenges. Wait a second, tariffs. So Liberation Day comes back in April, and I don't know, those companies that were having product made in Asia, I hear that they were particularly hard hit. And then there was this whole, oh, kitchen cabinets. So we're gonna put. I mean, so.

Dennis Scully (39:22)

So tell me how you received the news and what happened to both of.

Dennis Scully (39:27)

You, and how are you holding up in light of all of that most.

Emily Arthur (39:31)

Fun news, you get through a tweet late at night or something, and you're like, oh, I just was trying to make my dinner and get my kids to bed, but here we go. Let's call Sharon.

Dennis Scully (39:42)

Here we go.

Sharon Drenko (39:44)

Yeah. I mean, the current tariffs on Cambodia, on cabinetry, that's certainly had a huge impact on our business. But I think we've kind of just relied on the business that we've built. We made a smart decision in getting together with our manufacturing partner, our investment partner. They've been navigating these tariff challenges for years. This isn't the first time we've had this. Right. And certainly even Em and I, in our background in corporate home furnishings, this is not the first tariff round that we've had to weather as well. So what we won't do is increase our prices until we need to. I have not passed the cost increases that I've seen on to our customers. They're getting it from so many different places. As a new brand, I'm trying so hard to gain market share and build trust. That's just not something I'm going to do right now. So we've continued to invest in our service levels, we've continued to invest in our product quality. We have not down spec'd our cabinetry or anything like that. What we have done is pulled back on our marketing. And as much as that kills me, I run the, I run the marketing team here with basically everyone who works here. We have so many amazing creative ideas and ways we want to reach the community and we're having to take it a little bit slower. It's a priority to maintain the product and quality levels, service levels, but slow growth is okay sometimes. So we're just really relying on traditional relationship building techniques. Delivering really beautiful assets, having dinners with designers and connecting with them one on one has been amazing. Rather than just dumping money into digital ad spend. That's something we're actually pulling back on.

Dennis Scully (41:26)

In part because it sounded like you got a pretty strong response early on.

Sharon Drenko (41:32)

Yes, yes.

Dennis Scully (41:33)

I mean it took you a while.

Dennis Scully (41:35)

To come on this show, right.

Dennis Scully (41:38)

Because you were already getting such a response. You thought, oh no, if we go on Dennis his show and everyone hears about it, then I mean, who knows how much business we'll get and we're not ready for it. I get it, I get it. Sure.

Dennis Scully (41:52)

Well, and in terms of, okay, so.

Dennis Scully (41:55)

You mentioned tariffs and they are what they are, it sounds like is your feeling and going to hold on pricing for as best you can and hopefully they'll be dialed back in some way or I don't know, we'll see. The Supreme Court alert seems like they're talking about it, so we'll see what happens there. But I get the sense just coming back from High Point and even being at BDNY yesterday, a lot of companies are just thinking in one way or another, this seems like it's going to.

Dennis Scully (42:29)

Need to be built in to the business for a while.

Dennis Scully (42:32)

Several companies just talked to me. We're just building into the price of stuff going forward and if it gets rolled back, we can look at that. But we just have to acknowledge that this is the new reality and, and.

Dennis Scully (42:44)

We just keep moving along.

Dennis Scully (42:46)

I'm sensing that's how you're feeling a little bit.

Sharon Drenko (42:48)

Yeah, certainly. I mean, the tariffs aren't going away. We would be open to looking at other production Sources and certainly we have talked to some folks. It's not just a price equation, right. It's really finding someone who will come to the table as a partner. We have a great partnership with our manufacturing and investment partner today, and someone that also believes in product development. What we do is really hard. Em and her team have their work cut out for them, and we need someone that really. Right. And believes in what you're doing.

Emily Arthur (43:20)

Absolutely. I mean, that's another learning. Dennis. Oh my gosh.

Dennis Scully (43:24)

Tell me, Emily.

Emily Arthur (43:25)

Product development, which, you know, to Sharon and I was on like autopilot when we were in our corporate experience. But when you get into the kitchen cabinetry space, there's a blur between what's custom for a client and what's truly like foundational product development. Something that you're gonna to test and test and test and figure out just the perfect. You know, I use the analogy of a knife block, but that's one of those things like really getting it right and then putting it into your, your product line, into your spec book, and making it the right way every time. So having that in the kitchen cabinetry space is what we learned was just kind of obsolete. A lot of these manufactured cabinetry lines were relying on updating maybe one new door style or a color or something like that. And that's what they talk about year over year. You know, the door styles are of course important and so is color, but there's more to it. People in, you know, since the 90s, when a lot of these product catalogs were created, kitchens and how people want them to look is very different beyond door styles, beyond color. So just how these things get programmed, having columns on the end, finish, end panels, all these different details that we see in millwork have kind of been lost in this space. So having product development has been really important to our brand. To be able to establish all of these components that we're missing so that we can really figure out all the ways we can make them. So when a customer comes in the door, we've kind of done the math. And if they want a 50 inch long island with one big center panel, we know exactly how they're going to need that to be made. And we can advise them and show them all these different diagrams that we're creating. So, yeah, product development and having a partner that agrees with some of these processes and can understand them and work with us and really collaborate is key. So when you're talking about coming to the domestic market, we'd be looking for a partner that, that wanted to try new things or wanted to, you know, work with us on those things. Of course, there's our established product catalog, which has to be studied, learned, adapted to, but then also, like, what do we do when we are innovating and adding new products to the assortment? How does that look?

Sharon Drenko (45:47)

I think what we found is the domestic cabinetry business is really stuck in 1990. Just to be totally blunt and totally.

Emily Arthur (45:54)

Honest, which in some ways it's coming back.

Dennis Scully (45:59)

Yes. I was gonna say that is gonna swing back to the 90s. Those cabinet makers are right there.

Emily Arthur (46:04)

Hilarious. Yeah. Some of these product catalogs I open with these, like, corbels and stuff. You can find the rope molding, all these things. I'm like, oh, what's old is new, but in a totally different way than this product catalog.

Dennis Scully (46:19)

Well, so, I mean, it sounds as though you're open to domestic partners. They've gotta be willing to kind of step outside of what has been their comfort comfort zone up until now.

Emily Arthur (46:29)

Absolutely. Like we and you know, Sharon and I talk about our background is doing a lot of product development in Asia, but we also did it domestically too. I worked with a lot of upholstery manufacturers domestically, but, you know, it's just. It's a matter of the right fit in order to have all of these things line up. From a logistics and operational standpoint in kitchens gets a little more complicated because you don't really just work on the product development of product once and then just go and place orders. This is a relationship that's lasting. So if anyone wants to meet me at KBIs, I'll be there. Happy to talk to you. I'll be wearing my Isla Porter hat, as will Sharon. So.

Dennis Scully (47:07)

Yeah, well, I think you might get some people coming up to you because I do feel like people are. This ultimately could lead to more domestic manufacturing, to be sure. That process takes a long time and people have to feel as if this landscape isn't going to dramatically change and all of this is just going to be rolled back. People have to feel like this is really worth making the investment and spending that kind of time, right?

Emily Arthur (47:35)

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's true for anyone that's doing product, whether it's customer otherwise. Moving manufacturing is not simple. It takes time and it takes a lot of coordination. So it's not a one size fits all. We're all in the same boat, figuring.

Dennis Scully (47:50)

It out to be sure and coming back as we wrap up, coming back to the AI part of this. Right. So, I mean, as you said earlier, Sharon. Okay. So maybe we didn't need to lean so heavily into the AI in the beginning because so many people heard that and latched onto it and whatever they thought about AI is how they felt. And I think people's feelings about AI from 2023 to almost the end of 2025 has evolved quite a bit. And some people are leaning into it and finding all sorts of efficiencies and fooling around with all sorts of visual capabilities, and others are skeptical and nervous and worried that robots are coming to take our jobs and our lives. And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle there. But the question is, with AI, is it turning out to be a really helpful tool, back of house and other ways that you might not have even imagined beyond what you thought in the beginning when you were rolling out the company?

Sharon Drenko (48:52)

Yeah, certainly we use AI here every day, mostly for those operational pieces. So just like everyone else, we're writing our marketing copy with it. We've built a really cheeky GPT that has some snappy copy for us.

Emily Arthur (49:09)

Almost too snappy sometimes.

Sharon Drenko (49:10)

We have to. Yeah, we have to tone it down sometimes. And certainly I use it for my scheduling and my email drafting, as does many of our team members. And we are using Skip AI to support us with some of that rendering and backend technical piece. But at the end of the day, we are a premium product sold to the creative community. We have to continue to be creative. We're never going to rely on it to create our design ideas. We are never going to rely on it to deliver wholly our visuals. Even the renderings that you do see on our site, those are manually done by Emily and our.

Dennis Scully (49:52)

I'm sorry to bring that up, Emily.

Emily Arthur (49:53)

Oh my God. They're rewarding at the end, but the process, yes, you know, trends, they can come and go, but really understanding holistically where you want to go with your brand and directing it artistically is not something you can leave up to the robots or AI or whatever. There's no magic. It needs a director. So, yeah, we are primarily just, just really focused on, you know, using AI as a tool, but not so much using it creatively as the, the dictator of our designs. Sometimes we have fun and we throw stuff into ChatGPT just to see stuff for marketing and stuff. Even our renders that we get back, like, oh, change the floor and we get stuff back. But it's, you know, it's. We are always testing and trying new things.

Dennis Scully (50:44)

Sure.

Emily Arthur (50:45)

We don't want to just sit here and be like, oh, would you know, it is helpful or it's not helpful, like every three months it should be tried and see what is advanced and how it's going. But yeah, I mean, I would say if we just abandon AI, it wouldn't work either. You know, there's great programs coming out all the time. There's so much out there to be learning, and the interior design trade has adopted it and has found ways to make it really useful. So it's kind of great.

Dennis Scully (51:13)

Well, I think that's always reassuring. People like to hear that word, humans. You can't pepper the conversation enough with that word. So, wrapping up, I'm wondering, thinking again about people who are imagining taking this.

Dennis Scully (51:28)

Entrepreneurial leap, has it been wildly helpful for the two of you to have this friendship and this collaboration in the.

Dennis Scully (51:37)

Way that you have? Would you recommend to people, find a friend, find a partner, find some right that you can do, do this with. It just seems doing it all on your own I just imagine would be a million times harder.

Emily Arthur (51:51)

But Sharon likes to say that this was like me pushing her. But I feel like we push each other. I would say Sharon and I are really good balance. We're also both creative. So I do find, like having another creative partner thinking of how the brand is spoken about or all the marketing aspects. Like, I like to call Sharon a marketing magician because she comes up with all these really clever ways to access the community that I was like, well, it's not just a party, it's ladies getting on a bus and going antiquing. So, you know, there's, there's elements to that that are like, I wouldn't have thought that that's like a marketing opportunity, but she does, and it's really fun. But then at the same time, like, like creatively in terms of the side of the product and the kitchens and the visuals and how everything looks on the site and all that. Someone has to do that part too. But it is nice to have someone that you can call, just be like, what are we doing?

Sharon Drenko (52:57)

But definitely find a partner. I would say to, I don't know how designers do it alone. So many of them are just solely.

Dennis Scully (53:05)

Out there, sole proprietors.

Dennis Scully (53:06)

I know. I don't understand it either.

Sharon Drenko (53:08)

I don't know, like, what I would do if I'm just the only one awake at 12 in the morning thinking about our marketing or what's going on with this client order or our next hire.

Emily Arthur (53:22)

Like, Sharon, how funny was that the other day when I was talking about the coffee card and you were like, oh, my God, I just Wrote a whole plan for. So you know when you get, like, those coffee cards and, like, every 10 coffees, you get a free coffee.

Dennis Scully (53:35)

Right? Your rewards card. Yeah.

Emily Arthur (53:36)

So I was like, sharon, we need some sort of like. Like kitchen coffee cart. And she's like, funny you should say. I just wrote this whole plan to join our kitchen club. What was it? Katerian?

Sharon Drenko (53:48)

Oh, it's. It's called the Cabinet Club. Debut.

Emily Arthur (53:50)

Cabinet Club. Sorry, sorry. I'm killing it. I'm killing it.

Dennis Scully (53:53)

Okay.

Emily Arthur (53:54)

But no, it's like we're both seeing things and reacting to them in different ways and, like, collaborating off each other, but in terms of just, like, the parts about the job that you're like, oh, I never thought I'd have to figure out, like, who's gonna clean the toilet in the showroom, and maybe that's me. Like. Like, you have another partner there that's like, I'm figuring out how to get this thing shipped to this random place and I'm like, oh, I don't wanna do that. I'll just clean this toilet. So, yeah, I mean, having a partner to help you with both the fun creative bits, but also the not so fun bits about running a business is really great. And I think, like, no one understands how hard it is to start this company except for Sharon. So we. We laugh together and we cry together. And yeah, it's. It's a journey. It's a journey. But yeah, it's. I'm glad that I'm not alone.

Dennis Scully (54:52)

Yeah. So. So that. That's the. That's the big takeaway is. Is. Is find a partner and. And. And that might make a lot of things easier and. And have someone to your point, Emily, that you can both laugh and cry with. I hope there's not a lot of.

Dennis Scully (55:06)

Crying these days.

Dennis Scully (55:10)

But it does take a lot out of you. And a startup is an intense environment, but I'm so glad to get caught up on all of this. And congratulations to you both for even getting this far.

Dennis Scully (55:24)

Look at you.

Sharon Drenko (55:25)

Right?

Dennis Scully (55:25)

I mean, it's a big accomplishment. And as you referenced earlier, profitability not too far away as well. Which is. Which is impressive in such a short period of time.

Dennis Scully (55:36)

Some never get there.

Dennis Scully (55:37)

So you've done it. So well done you. And thank you both for making the time to talk with me about it all.

Emily Arthur (55:44)

Thank you so much.

Sharon Drenko (55:45)

Thank you, Dennis.

Dennis Scully (55:47)

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter. Browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the shift. This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.