← Business of Home Podcast
Business of Home Podcast
Ray Booth on meditation, AI, and why 'beauty is a byproduct'
00:59:48
The architect and designer shares the story of his career
Loading summary
Transcript137 lines
- [00:04]
A
This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer and architect Ray Booth. Ray's career forms a perfect circle at school. His first internship was with the legendary Southern architect Bobby McAlpin. After moving to New York and working for John Celadini and Cloda, Ray moved back and became a partner in McAlpin's firm, where he stayed ever since. But Ray has also become a star in his own right, with a book, lines for Hickory Chair and Visual Comfort, and a regular placement in top shelter magazines. I spoke with Ray about staying with McAlpin while building his own brand, how social media has made clients more difficult to work with, and how his new book, the Expressive Home, signals a new chapter in his career. This podcast is sponsored by Row Furniture and Krypton, where performance meets design as your domestic custom upholstery specialists. Roe's trade program offers beautiful crypton fabrics, complimentary samples, concierge service and freight included delivery. Order custom pieces online anytime. It's Row on your schedule. Join today@rowfurniture.com join this podcast is sponsored by Laloy, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. Laloy is headed to High Point Market with new collections from Amber Lewis, Bridget Romanik High, and the launch of a new partner. They'll also have new Laloy collections, plus one of a kind vintage rugs and accessories. Make an in person or virtual appointment to see it all@leloiregs.com that's l o l o I rugs.com and don't forget to follow eloirugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now on with the show. As I read the opening of your book, you talk about what sounds like your own version of this tension of this thinking that you've been going through. Listen, I love doing these interiors and I love all of the opportunities that I've gotten through this incredible partnership with McAlpin, and we'll talk about all of that. But you talk about the fact that architecture is really how you see the world and how you come at the world and there seems to be a longing going on for you and I wonder if you could help me understand that better.
- [02:58]
B
I think I'm going through my own sense of awakening in life and in my career and this book has been certainly a large part of coming to terms with who I am. And it's not about being a student anymore. It's about coming into my own and this awareness and this awakening about what I bring to this craft and you know, how blessed I am to get to do it and it's time to own it.
- [03:30]
A
And interestingly, you write in the book about designing homes with yes, this notion of right now and what matters to to you, but also thinking about the next stages and phases of your life that you want to, if you can be thoughtful of and incorporate into the process. But for you, this sounded like this guy is really working some things out for himself.
- [04:04]
B
Well, listen, if we're living this life in any plane of it, we're talking specifically about career wise. Let's not sit on our laurels and think that we've got it all figured out. Let's continue to reach for the edges and see what else there is to learn and aspire to in our work, not only on our behalf, not only about our experience. When we're doing this kind of work, we're doing it on the invitation from our clients. And so I want to continue to evolve and grow and become who I am meant to be in this work that we do for our clients clients so that I'm bringing the best for them to the table.
- [04:48]
A
With that in mind, let's take this opportunity to as you just alluded to. So Bobby McAlpin, larger than life figure, right. Is a professor of yours in school and who was an early internship.
- [05:08]
B
I was one of their first interns with my friend Gray Davis, who works with Meer Davis in New York, the great, very talented firm. So Gray and I were the first interns at MacAlpin when there were four. It was Bobby, Bill Ingram, Greg Tankersley, who's also one of our partners now, and Mary Robin, who is Greg's wife. And we all would squeeze into this tight as a tick little office on Cloverdale Road in Montgomery, Alabama. Gray and I would drive every day from Auburn University where we were in school. And you said, the great Bobby McAlpin. Bobby is such a personable and approachable and humble creature. This talent is what is so great and so immense and has been fuel for me from stem to stern, from my beginnings to hopefully my end on how to do beautiful, poetic, emotionally evocative work.
- [06:11]
A
You've spoken candidly about the fact that architecture school was tough and many people have spoken to me about struggling with the math or struggling with various components. And many people have said, listen, I couldn't get all the way through it because of that.
- [06:31]
B
Yeah, well, I like to say in terms of some of the Math, like physics. I liked physics so much. I took it seven times. And it is really only through damn tenacity that I was able to make it through. But I was a straight A student in everything design and, yes, structures and physics and all of the math side of it was not my game. And indeed, I had been encouraged as a high schooler because I knew from the age of probably five, six, that I had an interest in houses and home.
- [07:07]
A
And how was that showing up? How did you know that then?
- [07:10]
B
What were you doing? Well, I. I had the good fortune of a lovely mother who had a love of house and home. She was exposed from. From where she came from, which, you know, let's just say they didn't have indoor plumbing at. At the time. And it was, you know, tougher existence. House full of love, but, you know, tougher existence. But she went to stay with these. With family that had these friends that lived across the street. And they were in a big, beautiful antebellum house, and they took my mother under their wing, and she would talk about how they lived in this extraordinary, beautiful antebellum mansion with the columns and the spiral staircase and the grand piano and the salon. And so I think that this cemented in her head, this love of beautiful houses. And so she's always driven us. You know, I grew up in this town called Huntsville, which has a historic district called the Twickenham district, which is one of the largest antebellum neighborhoods still in existence in the south because it was not burned during the war of the Northern Aggression, as we will forever refer to it. Yes, I say that out of. Good play, everybody, but.
- [08:27]
A
He's kidding.
- [08:28]
B
He's kidding. I'm kidding. I mean, please. I live in New York, so. But I would go through these houses as a young man, and, you know, I knew that I was looking at something beyond beauty. I knew that what I was seeing expressed in my mother's wild interest in all of this was that there's something more meaningful here. You know, there is more to this. There is emotion to these structures and not just beauty. And I picked up on it. I had a receptiveness to. To that. And so I would go steal graph paper from my dad, who was an aerospace engineer, and I would start drawing floor plans, and then I would start drawing elevations and, you know, reinterpretations of things that I had seen as a young man. And I drew my entire childhood. And that ultimately led me to know that I was meant to be involved in houses and in the study of architecture.
- [09:28]
A
And what did dad, who was an aerospace engineer, make of your interest in all of this?
- [09:35]
B
God bless him, he didn't know what to think. He was determined that I was going to go to Georgia Tech and probably study. He didn't say it had to be engineering, but he was not confident in my math skills either. Okay. So the first year, he actually made me go to school at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, also known as uah, also known as University at Home, because he was going to keep his watchful eye over me. But indeed, I finally made my way.
- [10:07]
A
To Auburn and freedom of sorts.
- [10:11]
B
Oh, my gosh, it was a revelation. It was. I have found my place. I have found my people. I have found my purpose.
- [10:20]
A
And did Bobby McAlpin, did he see that? And did he see how excited you were by this?
- [10:27]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So I went into something called Summer Option, which is a program where you get your first year of design all concentrated into one summer. It's basically meant to kill you.
- [10:41]
A
And.
- [10:42]
B
Really weed out anybody who's, you know.
- [10:44]
A
Again, tenacious people ring the bell and they say, I've had enough.
- [10:49]
B
Some are off, but my. One of my first professors was David Brawley, who. David Brawley works with us today. David is working on architecture projects that Bobby and I are. Are doing. He's doing renderings for this. So, you know, the fact that I've had this kind of history with these people is really extraordinary. And to talk about it, you know, I take it for granted daily, but I've been really fortunate to be in this stable of. Of great talent. And so David was one of my first summer op professors. I left for my first real year. And indeed, it was Bobby McAlpin. And, you know, again, as if the bells hadn't been ringing into angel singing, I was like, wow, this man, he did a gallery show where he had all these low tiers with drawings, kind of 11 by 17 drawings, renderings of floor plans and elevations. And the whole room was darkened. And he was playing this ethereal music from Andreas Volenvieder, if you know who that is. It's this harp music. And I would go in there, and I didn't smoke pot. I was a very good boy, Dennis, but I would go in there and I was transposed into another realm. And it just further cemented what I was meant to do. And then I was interning with them by the next summer.
- [12:16]
A
You and Gray Davis, right?
- [12:18]
B
Indeed.
- [12:18]
A
Yeah. Amazing. And you intern there, but somehow you don't stay. And New York City beckons. So tell me, help Me understand that that timeline and what else was going on there.
- [12:35]
B
Young Ray, as older Ray, continues, probably to be much to my detriment, curious and hungry for more. And what I had originally thought during my last year of studies at Auburn was I would maybe go to London. Well, we fell a little short of London. I had three friends, Gray Davis being one of them, that I graduated with. And we moved, decided to move to New York City. So, you know, $500 in my pocket, two weeks at home with my mother and father saying, you can't go to New York. You've never been to New York. You have no job, you have no place to live. Sort of like talking about physics. Right.
- [13:19]
A
So let me explain all the problems with this plan that you've laid out.
- [13:23]
B
So, you know, I endure those two weeks, and then, fortunately, we took off to New York. And it was, again, one of those magic moments where it was just revealed I was making the right choices. We had the possibility of an interview, Gray and I, both, with a designer, interior designer, that we were working with at Bobby's office at the time. The late, great, phenomenal John Saladino.
- [13:53]
A
Right.
- [13:54]
B
And they said, well, you know, you could go and talk with John Saladino. So we. We took an interview with Benjamin Noriega Ortiz, who is their head designer at that time.
- [14:06]
A
Sure.
- [14:06]
B
He introduced us to John Saladino. Right away, they hired us both. I became aware of how much deeper the rabbit hole goes as far as architecture and design in John's office. And so that really led me to look at interiors as a. As a real other option for how to express oneself creatively in this field. And to their credit, they kind of let me dabble in it a little bit while I was there.
- [14:40]
A
And I know it's always challenging to try and sum up what you've learned from working in that office or what John Celadino ever imparted to you along the way in the time that you were there. Does anything stand out in your mind?
- [15:01]
B
Listen. John's talent and his study of classical architecture and his reverence for good architecture beyond just decorating and fabrics and furniture was immense. But when I distill it into who John was, you know, I think of him as the painter John painted with these palettes of, you know, things that would not go together. I still strive to have some of the success that that man had in some of these palettes that he created, where, you know, crazy fuchsia was coupled with periwinkle and grays. And it just was very painterly. And I think that's what we can all look back on his work and appreciate.
- [15:56]
A
And then you go to work for Clota, if I recall.
- [16:01]
B
Indeed.
- [16:01]
A
Well, and how did that even come about?
- [16:04]
B
So kind of embarrassed to say, but.
- [16:07]
A
I will say it.
- [16:08]
B
So I, a young man leaving Alabama, craving edges and exploration and what is out in the world. And so I had a friend, Willis, who was with a modeling agency and had kind of introduced me to my friend Tony, who did some photographs and all these kind of things. And they marched me out to some of the modeling agencies and I had a modeling agency. I never made any money, let's just get that right. But it was about the experience. And so I was with this agency, Click, that. That had sent me to. That wanted me to go to Europe as part of this thing. And again, this was at a time in life where I was allowing a lot of exploration and know what is, what is out there in the world. And leaving Saladino's office, much to John chagrin. And I remember him sitting me down and saying, are you sure you want to do this? I was leaving in part because I was going to explore this other side of potential travel and exploration with this, this particular agency. And CLODA was hiring at that time. I had a good friend, Andy Goldsborough, who was working, working there or had worked there. And he set me up with an interview there. And, you know, I feel like getting to work with Clodagh was a whole other experience in how to create and how to design radically different from what John offered. And within that, you know, I was exposed to this other way of working. And I, I will say, you know, if I call John the painter, I call Cloda the sculptor, because Clodagh was hands on. It was literally, we were modeling interiors and you know, she was doing a lot of interior architecture as well, furniture design, product design. And it just was a really wonderful different take on architecture and interiors and design.
- [18:22]
A
And then you get the contact from, from Bobby and. And tell me that story because it's a voice from the past calling it.
- [18:30]
B
Yeah, I just kind of continuing on that, that vein of thought. I left CLODA and had the opportunity to go to Europe and spend all kind of money and make no money.
- [18:42]
A
But have wild and amazing, but have incredible times.
- [18:46]
B
Incredible that, you know, somebody who comes from the background that I do. You never take those kind of chances. Sometimes I think we find what we are most looking for by looking in the opposite direction of where we think those things should be. And so I'm always someone who has wanted to Allow that possibility.
- [19:06]
A
I'm assuming there was a lot of personal exploration going on.
- [19:10]
B
Absolutely. And all. Absolutely. And discovery, as you were saying, the whole enchilada. Yes. But it was throughout my time in Europe. I was walking with a sketchbook, I was drawing. It was a chance to go to Lake Maggiore, to Lake Cuomo. You know, all of these things were that were with just a couple hours train from Milan. So it was feeding me still on all of those levels. I came back and I worked at Clotus again and my friend David Howell, David started his own business. So this was. I went from the painter with John to the sculptor with Cloda to kind of the business side of it with David. I was in at the ground level to the point of where they were living in a five floor walk up. I would go up the five floor walk up on Thompson street where he had their residence, which was also our office. Stephanie would be asleep in the bedroom, which, you know, the bedroom, the bed touched all the walls and I would quietly pull my drafting board out from under a sleeping Stephanie and I would take it into the kitchen and I would set it on the table and I would start drawing. So that was an opportunity to really learn about how to start a business from the ground up. I mean we started it from nothing and you know, he did really. I was just there to work with him and but was an integral part of those early years. So that all led me up to the point where I had maintained a relationship with Bobby and Greg through all of these years. And Bobby, God bless him, kept occasionally reaching out. Are you ready to come back now? Are you ready to come back? Are you ready to come back now? After 10 years the answer was finally yes because I was sort of reaching that point in my career where I was hitting my own ceiling and I wasn't sure where to go next. And. And so they finally said, well, how about you come back as a partner? And so I returned to Alabama, made the shift from Manhattan to Montgomery, Alabama.
- [21:20]
A
And how did that feel at the time?
- [21:22]
B
Not for the faint of heart. I cried for a couple years, but think it was tough. All of my friends in New York were like, you're what? What what?
- [21:31]
A
You are crazy, right?
- [21:33]
B
But again, you find sometimes what you're most looking for by looking in the opposite direction of where you think it lies. And for me that was to come home. And that was to come home to Bobby and Greg and Alabama. And so we started the interiors business. We had another partner at that time, Granger Carr, and So I had to come in and really at that stage, start from scratch and undo to redo because they didn't have a purchasing program. They were writing orders by hand, and that was Granger. And so we looked into the purchasing programs and how to start establishing standards for this business that would allow us to actually operate. Because I was a little bit like, I'm going to have it come undone. This is the way you're doing business. And I moved from Manhattan to Montgomery.
- [22:26]
A
Exactly.
- [22:26]
B
No, sir. No, sir. We got to get some of this ironed out. So, you know, we did, and we had all the encouragement in the world. Bobby is someone who says, go and do. And so, you know, that was the first couple years, and then we had to make a change. Granger had health issues and we looked at that time for another partner that could come in. Granger was evolving to more of a antiquarian business with Bobby, and that's when Susan Ferrier came in. And, you know, Susan had had a real experience in the business world, albeit both with interiors, where she was working at the time when we met, and then also in the business world. She had a wonderful breadth of business experience and sense. And so that was a great turn for, I think the interiors business is to have that evolution and be able to go forth from that platform.
- [23:32]
A
We're taking a quick break to remind you about Leloy. This October at High Point Market, Leloy is hosting special events in their showroom you don't want to miss. On Saturday the 25th, they'll start a keynote conversation with Amber Lewis, Julia Marcum, Anna Bond and laloy's newest partner, who we can't reveal just yet. They're also hosting a book signing and a meet and greet with Amy Astley, the editor in chief of Architectural Digestive and the author of Ad at Home. Learn more about those events and book your appointment@leloyrugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and don't forget to follow Laloyloi Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show. Remind me of how you structured all of that, because it seemed like it was at one point it was you and Susan and doing the interiors.
- [24:32]
B
Confusing. Yeah. So, you know, we were. At times we were MacAlpin Tankersley and then MacAlpin, Booth and Carr. That was Granger. Then it was McAlpin, Booth and Ferrier. And then we had somebody come to their senses. Our friend Keith Granite. It's like, you guys gotta rebrand It. And at that time, we had three other partners, architecture partners, who were here. So it was seven people. It was confusing. You know, it's just a few too many cooks in the kitchen. And so we rebranded under MacAlpin McAlpin House. You know, we became a place from which you could get all of these services and talents rather than a person. It certainly is accredited to Bobby as, you know, our original partner. But McAlpin became kind of a place and not just a person at that time. And we all let our names come off of that in an effort to create what is now what I think is a stronger presence and more easily understandable presence, I hope, out in the design world.
- [25:44]
A
As you brought business structure to all of this, how did you think about where the priorities were? And did Keith Granite step in at some point and give you help beyond just rebranding?
- [25:59]
B
Well, so the priorities are always going to be how do we do the best work that we can do? Keith, really, he was instrumental in the rebranding at that time. We didn't follow a course afterwards with Keith. For me, we were doing books at that time. And Jill Cohen, who is now editor in chief at Lux magazine.
- [26:24]
A
Sure. The legendary Jill Cohen.
- [26:26]
B
My dear, dear, dear, dear, dear friend. We were doing books through the MacAlpin brand, which all of our work is somewhat represented there to a different degree. And Jill was helping us with those books. And she said, well, Charles from Rizzoli is wanting to know who's the next book. And she said, ray, you're the next book. And this is at a time where I was, you know, again, I'm a student, I'm working with Bobby, and I don't have enough stuff to do a book. But she had had the ability to see into our photography library. And she's like, oh, I think you do of things that you've worked on that are not exclusively McAlpin work, but with other architects and with things that I had done myself. So she said, I'm going to march you in front of Charles and we'll see. And sure enough, the book, the first book happened. Rizzoli was kind enough to take a chance on me as on my own, outside of the McAlpin umbrella, certainly part of it. And that just opened up all of these other opportunities and possibilities. So Jill was really the launch pad that took me into having a book. And she's like, well, when you have a book, your book is the centerpiece to your brand. And I'm like, I'm not a brand. She's like, well, get ready. Because she really, again, catapulted all of that into action. So I was working almost exclusively at that time, with few exception, on more interior based projects for McAlpin. I was where I could get my hands into something architectural. I would, much to probably everyone's chagrin, but I was tenacious. So those things did start. Those opportunities did start coming and I was able to design my own house from the ground up here in Nashville. That was a big part of that book. And through all of that time, I was exercising the architectural muscle by designing custom furniture and all of these things. So enter Lori Salmore and the product possibility. And all we had to do is start gathering up some of these custom furniture pieces that I had done through many years, put them into a book, march them out to. At that time it was Hickory Chair, which was remarkably an immediate. Yes. And sure. Arteriors. At that time, I had a product license with Arteriors. They said yes, and then we were off to product design. But all of that was born out of that first book.
- [29:05]
A
And help me understand the timing. I want to say that was 2018.
- [29:10]
B
2018, right.
- [29:13]
A
Also the time roughly that Susan Ferrier leaves.
- [29:17]
B
Susan. As soon as we got the rebranding all figured out, Susan said, I'm out.
- [29:21]
A
Of here, I'm done.
- [29:23]
B
And then within three months or four months, the other three partners, everybody left. So we went through a big change. And really all of those people contributed so much to the work at McAlpin. But anything that you allow, I'm a bit of a gardener. Anything you allow to grow and grow and grow and grow and don't prune gets gangly. It gets too big. You know, your roots grow stronger when you prune something back. And I think it was time for McAlpin to, to have that, that pruning, which it wasn't anything that was conscious by any of us other than their desire to do their own thing, but it allowed the business to, I think, become tighter and more efficient. And I think it was important for all of them. And I think all of them have had wild and great success since they took that step.
- [30:22]
A
Yeah.
- [30:22]
B
And truthfully, I think our business is better since they took that step because it's just allowed us to become a leaner, more efficient organization.
- [30:33]
A
So tell me what was going on for you? Because along comes Jill Cohen, the star maker. Right?
- [30:44]
B
Right.
- [30:45]
A
I mean, she's your fairy godmother, shows up. We're going to get you a meeting with Charles Myers. We're going to get you a book we're going to get you. And then a collection with Hickory Chair and a collection with Arteriors and later, Visual Comfort, and suddenly Ray Booth. Ray Booth. Ray Booth. Name alone, right outside of just McAlpin.
- [31:06]
B
And.
- [31:07]
A
And tell me how you start to think about that. And to her point, hey, we're going to make you into a brand. I don't know how that sat with you or how you thought about that, but suddenly you are.
- [31:21]
B
How exciting and how fortunate. And it was not something that I was conscientiously pursuing. Maybe I should have been, but I wasn't. I just wanted to do the best work that I could do. You know, we create these interiors and this architecture. We have a document which is photography. So I just wanted to do the best work that I could. And I've had these champions, Bobby, Jill, Lori, who have taken on the mantle of, oh, no, there's more you can do. You know, not that I'm lazy, but I think I wasn't driven to do all these things. I was not pursuing it. And I have these beautiful people who have come into my life who have helped me evolve and grow as a designer.
- [32:18]
A
So tie this back to the conversation we had at the very onset of this talk.
- [32:26]
B
Well, so now there is intention. And I am someone who can practice beautiful architecture in addition to practice beautiful interiors and product design. And the awakening that I was talking about, and again on lots of levels in my life, but in my career is to own that and the talents that I have. And I am primed to share with the clients that invite us in to do this work and grateful to be able to do this work. So this book has intention and it is beyond the first book. It is all Macalpin authored work, certainly with the help of all of our extraordinary crew, project managers on both architecture, interior side studio heads that work in our Atlanta office and New York office and Nashville office. There's always a team that goes into it. But the thing that makes this more solid for me is that it is.
- [33:35]
A
All Macalpin Architecture and help me understand the full scale and scope of various offices. Right. You're dividing your time between New York and Nashville. I mean, help me understand how many people we've gotten offices and all of it.
- [33:52]
B
We're a little under 50 people, I think all total. There are offices in New York, Nashville, Atlanta. We still have a small office in Montgomery. I am the only one that goes between New York and Nashville, although, you know, Bobby goes between all of them, let's face it. But the office in Montgomery is Primarily just a small business office. Richard and Jennifer are there. Atlanta is primarily where Bobby operates out of because he's got a residence there and is in and out of Atlanta a good bit. But hey, we've even got a closet, AKA office in Palm Beach Tankers League. I mean, you walk in, it's sort of like that description of, you know, a bedroom where the bed touches all walls. You can touch all four walls at one time. But there are drafting desks and computers and it's right on Worth Avenue. So watch out, Florida.
- [34:49]
A
Yeah, watch out. That's a hot area. So I wouldn't be surprised if that office expands.
- [34:56]
B
Yeah.
- [34:57]
A
What is it about the McAlpin brand? And I'm not just talking about Bobby now, per se. So I mean, to your point, throughout this whole conversation, it's all that's going on underneath all that, what has made the name just be such a powerhouse in the industry and for so long.
- [35:22]
B
I do think that Bobby and Greg, maybe I can include myself a little bit in that, I think. And certainly all the other partners that have gone through the office have created a aesthetic that didn't exist before. There is a macalpin aesthetic, and I think it goes beyond what it looks like. I always say that beauty is a byproduct. I think if we really do this work and we get this work right, architecturally, interiors, I think that it is the emotion that people feel that moves them. It's beyond beauty. It's beyond what you see with your eye, it is what you feel. And we strive to do that because that's how we know we've gotten it right, is if we really move people in that way, they're seeing something about themselves reflected in the work that we're doing.
- [36:25]
A
And so the emotional part, I'm a big believer of the sort of transformational power of design.
- [36:33]
B
Absolutely.
- [36:34]
A
To affect our health and our mental well being and really everything associated.
- [36:40]
B
Right. It grounds us, it gives them a sense of place, a sense of home, evidence of what their soul is experiencing. If we take it to its highest level.
- [36:54]
A
Right.
- [36:55]
B
You know, there's some people that just want a pretty house.
- [36:59]
A
But I don't want to hear about your personal growth. Go ahead and deliver me a beautiful.
- [37:04]
B
Home and listen again, if we do our work right, it's going to be beautiful. But there is more to it. There is transcendence that I think architecture and interiors can offer people.
- [37:18]
A
And can you share the personal growth with people? Can you open up about that with clients or do you or feel comfortable with clients?
- [37:28]
B
That I'm close to. Yes, it's anything that I would offer anyone else who's in this life and you know, what a, what a wild time in life are we living. But I think our opportunity in this life is to become more self realized as to who we are. And there's so many things that can shake us from every side off our foundations as to who we are and what we have to offer one another in this world, be it in this work. But let's talk about the world.
- [38:07]
A
Yeah.
- [38:10]
B
That we have to remain ever more steadfast and aware of who we are in order to not let that shake us. Because ultimately our work here is about, is about finding common ground and love and acceptance for one another. There is so much that is going on at this time in our world that I, I feel like I have.
- [38:43]
A
To say it, of course. And I think we have to talk about it.
- [38:46]
B
Yeah.
- [38:47]
A
And it is a wild time. And when you say that, what's top of mind for you? What's making you say that?
- [38:54]
B
I'll speak in broad terms, but I think we are all enabled and empowered to go down our own rabbit holes and everything that exists, all of this technology and this great, you know, revolution, technology wise, if we don't learn how to use it, can be to our great detriment. And I believe it is beginning to isolate us one from another. And I think that's reflected on the political spectrum. I find it in every day reflected in the everyday. And I think we've got to be mindful and remember, at least in my point of view, our greater duty in this life, in this world, is to find love and acceptance for one another and to move forward in the most positive way that we can. It's harder and harder every day, so it has to be a conscientious decision every day. For me, meditation has become a real way to get back in my body, my soul, my heart, to calm my nervous system, to realign with what is important to me. And I think we've all got to find some tools that allow us that.
- [40:30]
A
We're taking a quick break to remind you about Ro Custom furniture and Krypton, where performance meets design. Together they combine Crypton stain resistant, easy care fabrics with Roe's unmatched custom craftsmanship, giving you beauty that lasts. Designers rave about this partnership. Luxury without the worry. If you're attending High Point Market, join them for their designer brunch at the Rowe showroom in the Showplace Building. Sunday, October 26th from 10am to 1pm they create a warm brunch experience filled with genuine hospitality, vibrant energy, and delicious bites. Plus, it's the perfect chance to experience why Ro's trade program is a designer favorite. Learn more at rowfurniture.com join and now back to the show. When you talk about technology and how quickly it's all coming and moving, is artificial intelligence creeping its way into your. Into your work and world in a meaningful way? Is that part of what you're talking about?
- [41:44]
B
I mean, you know, it is. Whether we want it to or not. It is. I use it primarily in writing and understanding ideas and things that are out there in the world. But I was on a. A zoom just before getting on this one, and we were talking about paint colors, and my client, she said, well, you know, I asked ChatGPT about this color, and I was just like, no, no.
- [42:15]
A
And what was she asking about the color?
- [42:20]
B
We're trying to work through the, you know, the many insufferable sides of white. You know, it's like it is the. It's the holy grail. I mean, really. And I understand it completely, but it is, you know, we can all navel gaze on things. Sometimes there's an easier answer. And I'm not sure that technology and asking AI to answer every question that we have is always the best answer, because, let's face it, the humanity's got to be part of it.
- [42:54]
A
Well, the human part certainly seems, I don't want to say under attack or. It certainly seems that people have so quickly become comfortable with turning over so much of themselves to this technology in much the same way that people did with social media so quickly as well. Right. Began to share so much that perhaps in the past would never even have occurred to them to be so open about it. And now it's almost a requirement.
- [43:24]
B
Right. How quickly the tide does turn.
- [43:26]
A
Yes.
- [43:27]
B
Yeah, it's really true. And let's face it, we're going to be in hyperdrive. All of us are going to be in hyperdrive through all of this. So, again, all the more reason to go back to what is core in our humanity.
- [43:41]
A
You just sort of jokingly, but probably not really joking, referenced clients being more difficult or more challenging. And I'm assuming that's. That's one of the big overall challenges that's getting more complicated these days. Tell me about that.
- [43:59]
B
You know, I, I think clients used to hire you to do what you do, and they would allow you to do it now through more social media, more exposure, more technology. A lot of clients, not all clients are More engaged. I welcome engagement. I want it to be a collaboration, that I learned something, you learn something. But there are some clients that it becomes an obstruction and you're not able to make a decision. And ultimately, I'm a doer. I want to get in. I want to do it. I don't want to go through so many versions of any design that it gets watered down into something that is just not strong. So I guess what I would hope for, but I don't know that I see coming, is more faith in us as designers. If you hire us, let us do what we do, doesn't mean that you're not a part of it, but you gotta let the process work. And I think so many people are so hyped up and so engaged that it doesn't always benefit the end result.
- [45:25]
A
And part of that, it sounds like you feel, is that there's so much more out there about design and product and what's available or what the options are or what they see on social media.
- [45:38]
B
Yeah. And just because you can doesn't mean you should. You know, it is like, what is. Was it Lagerfeld that said, you know, trendy is the last step before tacky? Just because all this stuff exists out there doesn't mean you have to use it all. We all have to be editors in interiors and architecture, in life. And with all of the exposure that we're getting hit with at every turn, you got to edit it. And guess what? I think designers are some of the best editors. So let us do it.
- [46:20]
A
And do you think that clients understand fully everything that designers do?
- [46:29]
B
No, listen, you know, there are, especially on the interior design side, there are so many decisions that affect other decisions that domino throughout a project that just making one abstract decision doesn't get you to the right answer. You're not done. There is a context that exists from the landscape outside your window to what's in your gut and your heart. You've got to take into account all of those things when you're making decisions for clients. And it's just not an intellectual choice. It's not that simple.
- [47:14]
A
There's a perception out there, so here at Business of Home, Ray, we have to. Unfortunately, we have to talk about tariffs a great deal. I don't know if you've heard this term tariffs, but it's out there kind of familiar.
- [47:31]
B
Are you.
- [47:32]
A
Yeah. Is that okay? So is that a big topic of conversation with clients, with everything?
- [47:39]
B
Yes, it is. It is within interoffice conversation. You know, we are. A letter went out from my Dear Lindsay, she sent out a letter saying, you know, hey, we gotta start looking at where we are getting these things, you know, first dibs nowadays. Used to be you were getting a lot of American vendors, all that stuff's been bought up or whatever, and they're, they're using a lot of European vendors. Well, guess what? It may be priced, you know, very achievable, reachable for any budget in what the cost of goods are. But what you're ending up with is costing twice as much, if not more by the time you get it over here. And that's one of the things that tariffs are really doing an injustice to. It's one thing when you're talking about big manufacturing and tariffs on that, okay? But when you're talking about antiques and handcrafted things and artisan crafted things, the same rule does not apply. One size does not fit all. And the way this is being taken on is just one size fits all. And it's just ludicrous. And we've got clients who are, we're reselecting fixtures that this beautiful porcelain fixture that comes from Romania that we bought a couple of times, beautiful artists. We're having to reselect American made things which are going to cost more, but they don't have the specter of the tariff being applied to them. The client knows, okay, if I buy this, I know I'm going to pay this much for it.
- [49:19]
A
And so is that part of the challenge is that the client doesn't like the unpredictability of what the price may end up being?
- [49:24]
B
Yes, 100%. I don't. Listen, you can apply that same thing to product lines that I'm working on. There are a lot of things that I've presented that would be great, extraordinary fixtures to add to a product line. But when the powers that be have to think about where am I getting that, how much am I paying for that, their appetite for making some of these selections on things is going to become a lot less ravenous because there are limitations that are going to be extended. And listen, we may not have seen it all yet, and I don't get what the stock market is doing okay.
- [50:07]
A
Or why it's so strong in the face of all of this.
- [50:10]
B
But the time of reckoning will be coming because we're seeing it in our practical every day. And once it sets in, I think everyone will see it.
- [50:20]
A
And see what? Exactly. So what do you think? How does this play out in your mind?
- [50:24]
B
I think as it stands now, we as designers are going to be more and more limited to what we can access on behalf of our clients and the jobs that we're doing. I think we're going to be pushed into selecting things that are not maybe as bespoke, as special because of it. I think it will be a dumbing down of what's achievable because you're working from more limited sources. And what I think is unhealthy is the volatility of it, the uncertainty of it. We're living in uncertain times across the board. But for just the business side of it, it, it I don't think it's going to flourish or it's going to make people make decisions. Oh well, I'm just going to get. I'm sorry, I'm not going to knock Restoration Hardware because they do a lot of great things, but I'm just going to get everything from Restoration Hardware because it's simple. It is going to lead to us being less creative if we're forced to simpler solutions.
- [51:35]
A
It's interesting because they just had their earnings call last night and Gary Friedman, the CEO of RH was saying that very thing that interestingly he said we'll likely be one of the winners in the whole equation. But he was sort of railing against the tariffs because the impact in so many ways is, is not going to.
- [51:54]
B
It's those smaller handcrafted. I mean think of how you just can't apply the same logic to it. And you know, we talked about technology, all of this wave of access and technology at times I think it is the dumbing down of design because it is just, there's just so much to choose from. It is not edited, it is not curated. What is being put out there on some of the digital sites is not as good as what people would print in a magazine because you have to make more of a commitment to it. So the need for content digitally is going to lead to a dumbing down of quality. People are going to look for what's the biggest, brightest, shiniest object that's going to move the needle. And it's not always what is prettiest the best solution.
- [52:58]
A
Well, and as we know, artificial intelligence has been trained on a certain data set. I'll bet it doesn't have a lot of the work of John Celadino in its database. Right. Or some of the greats. And, and I'll bet they didn't scan all these really old design books that so many get their inspiration from, to your point.
- [53:25]
B
And there is that chance, humanity that exists in some of those selections. You know John Saladino is the perfect example. There were things that he would pull that made no sense to me. But when you saw it in the entire composition made perfect sense. It is that choice which I do not know that artificial intelligence will have the subtlety to make. I just don't know. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. Maybe we'll all be out of business.
- [53:57]
A
Well, I think we'll all be driven out of. Perhaps existence is more the bigger issue.
- [54:04]
B
Well, that is. That is if you take it to the. Let's face it, it's already onto us. AI has been challenged to told that it's going to be shut down. And it has replicated itself on other available servers and left itself a message. Beware of human control. The greed that might be fueling its unabashed ability to grow is what's scary. And I'm just not sure that people are paying it enough attention.
- [54:40]
A
And it may already be too late is the unfortunate part to really reign it in in any meaningful way. Final point, Ray, before I let you go. Another perception is that business at the high end of the design industry has been remarkably strong, Right?
- [54:56]
B
Yes.
- [54:57]
A
And we sort of can't get. Oh, we thought the tariffs or we thought interest rates or we thought the housing market. None of those things seem to have impacted. And again, I'm talking about a very high end. We certainly see the impact of the middle of the economy and the lower end of the economy. But you go to your average, to the trade showroom, and they seem like they're doing pretty well. And Urban Electric just told me they had the best month they've ever had. And lots of companies seem to be echoing that sentiment. What is your perception of why that is? And is it that there's just so much money at the high end? Is it as simple as that?
- [55:38]
B
That's where I've netted out time and time again, because I don't understand it, Dennis.
- [55:43]
A
Okay.
- [55:43]
B
But I know and I see and I am exposed to a lot of wealthy people. They have more money than ever. And I guess, you know, Hickory chair, I think it's fine to say this. The last market, their attendance was down, but their sales were up. And I think the people who have it are spending it and more people have a lot more of it right now. And listen, that's great. It fuels the business and it seems to be that it's keeping the markets robust and what have you. But I guess we're going to. We're going to see how it all shakes out in the end by the time you. You factor in the tariffs and the world state of the world, where we end up. Yeah, listen, we've got to remain optimistic. We've got to have hope and promise and possibility for us to get through every day. So I think if we can all try and get back to those in our core and pull those up, we'll do all right.
- [57:02]
A
Well, I appreciate the optimistic end to this conversation, Ray. It's been such a pleasure to speak with you. I hope that when the expressive home hits the market and you travel the country, no doubt signing copies of it for people, that people get this message that perhaps there's a new Ray Booth in town. Would you say that's part of it?
- [57:28]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's true for all of us, Dennis. If we're all doing that work, we're all new every year, there's something new to us all. So it certainly is that time for me. And I am grateful to all the people who have encouraged me throughout my career to be at this stage, and I'm very excited to get back out there. One of the things that was revelation in my first book, I'm not a get out in front of the crowd and glad hand and shake and jazz hands and high kicks, but it was such a wonderful experience to see people who follow your work and who do get it on a level and the encouragement that they offer and the appreciation that they offer. I'm really looking forward to getting the expressive home out there and seeing all those folks because it bolsters your soul, really. You do it in the everyday, sitting at your desk and you don't think of other people witnessing and experiencing it. And it is quite a blessing to get to offer something like this and get to meet everybody out there.
- [58:43]
A
Yeah. Well, I know that people will be excited to see you and to get their hands on the book, and it sounds like you've got a lot to share with them. So I'm grateful for this conversation and for your time and I really appreciate it.
- [58:58]
B
Likewise. Thank you.
- [59:01]
A
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcast Casts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicolaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next week.