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Business of Home Podcast
Rita Konig knows what clients really want
00:44:48
The celebrated English interior designer returns to the show
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- [00:00]
Dennis Scully
Foreign this is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Rita Koenig. The last time Rita was on the show, she and I talked about her upbringing in England and her early career as a design columnist. Two years later, Rita's profile has grown considerably. She's now a regular on the AD100. Her Create Academy course remains as popular as ever, and last year she was honored as House and Gardens Interior Designer of the Year. I spoke with Rita about why she's opening an office in America, what's behind the rise of British style, and what clients really want in a world where expensive things are increasingly common.
- [00:57]
Rita Koenig
Foreign.
- [01:03]
Dennis Scully
This podcast is sponsored by Ernesta. Your destination for designer quality custom size rugs with a curated assortment of timeless colors, patterns and textures. Ernesta will deliver the right size rug in the style your client wants in only two to four weeks. And with Ernesta's exclusive trade membership benefits, you can get dedicated support, free unlimited samples and special discounts to help you achieve your clients design goals. To join Ernesta's trade program, visit ernesta.com boh this podcast is also sponsored by Ethan Allen. Ethan Allen is known for its classic good looks and reputation for quality. But did you know that most every piece of furniture is customizable? Designers can choose from hundreds of fabrics, an array of leathers, more than a dozen wood finishes, and most upholstery pieces can be made with contrast welts, dual fabrics, nail head trims, and so much more. Design something one of a kind and Ethan Allen will bring it to life. To join their trade program go to ethanalan.com trade and now back to the show. Well, I'm delighted to have you back on the show. And we've got some big news about Rita coming to America, which I want to get into. But but before we jump into all of that, I'm curious, is New Year's as big a deal in the UK as we make it out to be in the us? Do people in the UK make resolutions and talk how they're going to try to be better people in the coming year and all of that? Tell me.
- [02:46]
Rita Koenig
I think we do a bit. I wonder if it's bigger for you because we make or it seems so because we make so much more of Christmas than you do. I must say I didn't do that thing of writing all those things on a piece of paper and sending them up the chimney out into the world of the things I wanted to do or stop doing this year.
- [03:06]
Dennis Scully
Well, as you were just suggesting, Christmas is so celebrated in the uk and I'm curious, do you have any wonderful Christmas traditions that you have upheld over the years or things you particularly enjoy doing?
- [03:20]
Rita Koenig
What's rather nice is my family. We always seem to be together. I'm divorced actually, and my ex husband and I always spend Christmas together which is very nice. So we don't have to do that awful one on, one off, which actually I didn't even really like when we were married. We had to be one year with one family, one year with the other. Now it just seems everyone's all together all the time, which is so much nicer. And we're very big on stockings and the presents are always rather an embarrassment of gifts, which I think he's always been loath to admit that actually he quite enjoys. So it's definitely indulgent.
- [04:01]
Dennis Scully
Well, I'm sure that was very fun. And as you say, he's a terribly good sport for hosting all the former in laws and all of that. And how did you feel your decorating had held up? How did you feel that his house was looking?
- [04:15]
Rita Koenig
It was looking all right. It even survived my nephew's Technicolor yawn on Christmas Eve which was a wobbly moment but we got through that. So no, it's all, it's all looking good. And we had a ping pong tournament that my sister and brother in law set up.
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Dennis Scully
Oh.
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Rita Koenig
Which was quite fun and also quite revealing. I didn't realize actually that Phil, my ex husband, where all the boys that had been at prep school were suddenly these really good ping pong players which is quite funny. So that was jolly and I think should probably become a tradition. Although they all won the shuffles is my in laws, my sister and brother in law who suggested it were in the semi finals finals and obviously the winner. So we have all got to sharpen up a little bit, otherwise that's not much fun.
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Dennis Scully
Well, I assume that they suggested playing because they knew how good, how good.
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Rita Koenig
They all were and they the sweet steak too, which they also took home. It felt slightly rinsed at the end.
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Dennis Scully
Of that in the office, is there any kind of turning the page or any ritual of a new year starting or. It's just.
- [05:24]
Rita Koenig
Well, we had a bit of a meeting back to school meeting yesterday and what I would like to do this year is have a new office in London. I'd like to have this early part of the year having quite a good Sort of clear out of all the dregs that you gather in spaces, the samples we don't use, the things that have got left over from projects or things like that. Just get rid of all that dead wood.
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Dennis Scully
Right.
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Rita Koenig
And my daughter's going to start a new school this year, so I. I'm sort of waiting to see where that is. And then I think we need a new space, which is the thing I'm quite excited about.
- [06:01]
Dennis Scully
That is exciting, but always a little bit of a daunting task. Yes. A big move.
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Rita Koenig
Well, it would be, and it probably wouldn't happen this year because what I would like to do is have a sort of proper space. We currently work in. In a one open plan room, but now, you know, there are Zoom calls. There weren't particularly zoom calls when we moved into this office because zoom seemed to only exist since COVID So that is noisy. And meetings. When I'm having meetings with clients and they're all working away on their sort of what I call the decorating island, you know, I think we need different rooms now. We need spaces where there can be meetings and maybe a. The library can be in a different space and things like that.
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Dennis Scully
Well, it sounds like you've outgrown that and it sounds like you've got a much bigger team than you had, which is fun, actually.
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Rita Koenig
It's exciting.
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Dennis Scully
Yes. Are you enjoying growing into that and all the responsibility that goes along with.
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Rita Koenig
I am, actually, because what I suppose has happened with our growing team is that I am able to really focus on the things that I do well. And in fact, we've had a few people have said to me, oh, well, I'd love to call Rita, but, you know, I don't think we'd actually get Rita. We'd get, you know, somebody in her team, which nobody ever gets. They always get me. I do everything. I do all of the designing, all of the buying, all of the everything to the tissue box is nobody chooses anything except for me. So, in fact, what having these other. The growing team means that they facilitate. They give me the time to do all of that, which is so nice. And I don't have to do any of the boring bits, which is also very good for everybody else. I'm not so good at the numbers.
- [07:47]
Dennis Scully
Well, so you've outgrown the office in the uk, and perhaps next year is a time to look at a new space there. But part of the big story in our conversation is, I think last time you were on, which is about a year and a half ago, you you teased spending some more time in the US and in Florida in particular. But it sounds now as if things have gotten a bit more official with you coming to America.
- [08:12]
Rita Koenig
Well, they have. And I suppose it's interesting that we were talking a year and a half ago, because I suppose that was when, you know, Lara, who's my sort of head girl, really. She's an amazing. She was an amazing senior designer for me. And then she did that awful thing where she said, can I come and have a word? Which I just thought, no, please don't. I don't know.
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Dennis Scully
That sense of dread comes over you.
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Rita Koenig
Anyway, she came to me and her boyfriend, who'd been living in Chile, was moving to Miami, and he'd asked if he would. She would go and join him there. And she was like, I really would love to. And I feel so conflicted and da, da. But I misrelehanted my notice, which I sort of thought, and then gathered myself and said, well, don't be ridiculous. We have no work in America. What on earth are you going to do there? And I think you should just work for me there. So this thing evolved, and I think it's been amazing because I probably wouldn't have sent somebody and so to have had the opportunity to have somebody who now feels like something of a partner to me. She runs the sort of HR thing. She brings in all the new business, she talks to clients and goes through all of that before it comes to me. She's such a support and such a vital person in my team. And so to have her be the person there is really. I've been so lucky. And Florida is somewhere that I also sort of have a bit of history with. We used to go to Palm Beach a lot as children, so I have this sort of fondness for Palm Beach. So that's where we've landed, really. Not with a bricks and mortar sort of public space, but we do have. That's sort of where we are based. And that is where now when I have projects we hail from, and I can send Lara places, we can now run our business from the States, which I think for American clients is a lot easier.
- [10:10]
Dennis Scully
Well, I mean, it sounded as though you were. You were getting a great many projects in the States.
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Rita Koenig
Yes, we do. Which is lovely. And having lived in New York, you know, that was probably one of the best decisions I ever made, was to move to New York. It was a terrific. I haven't really stopped working in America since I left.
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Dennis Scully
Well, and. And. And remind us. Remind us of. Of when you lived in New York and. And that time a little bit, just to refresh people's memory about your. Your time in America.
- [10:38]
Rita Koenig
I moved to New York in about 2005, and I was introduced very quickly to Deborah Needleman, who I'd worked with. She used to be the gardens editor on House and Garden in the States when there was an American House and Garden. And I used to write for her. So she was my editor. And in that way you often have with editors that you've talked a lot on the telephone and feel that you know somebody, but you've never met. So I was introduced to her and we met. She was doing. She had just launched Domino, and she was doing a party at the top of Barney's in that great department they had. And we sort of instantly fell in love. She was. She was so terrific. It was really fun, actually. It was really a terrific way to see America. So I did that, and I also decorated. And then as I was leaving, I decorated this house in Mill Valley with Gil Shafer. And that was a very sort of seminal turning point project.
- [11:35]
Dennis Scully
Well, I was curious last time we spoke, and we were talking about you doing more work in America, and we ended up having this conversation about the cost of things in America. And recently I was talking with the designer Sean Henderson, and he shared that he finds himself feeling this heightened sense of responsibility or pressure because a Sofa suddenly costs $20,000 today. And he feels like, oh, my gosh, $20,000. I better make sure that sofa is incredible and perfect. And so everything just weigh more. Yeah, in part because he even. He can't believe how expensive so many things have.
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Rita Koenig
I know everything is terribly expensive. It's that the inflation. I mean, they kept saying that we would have this galloping inflation, and I think we do. You know, it is. It is extraordinary when you think that one thing costs so much. How on earth you could possibly decorate a whole house? But things are expensive, and I think one is. One does have a responsibility to your client to make sure that they get absolutely the best thing. Also, you don't want somebody to, every time they sit down, think, oh, I hate Rita, this sofa so uncomfortable. You want them to think there's no. There's no quicker way to remember how much it cost. Whereas if you sit back and. And just sink into it and can hardly get out of it, you forget how much it costs. You just think how happy you are.
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Dennis Scully
Well, I mean, and at the time, you were talking about the fact that it was less expensive for you to actually bring some upholstery in from the uk. I don't know if that's still the case today.
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Rita Koenig
I think it still is. I don't know why upholstery is something that we do. It's something we seem to do very well and we managed to do less expensively. I mean, oddly, we seem to do lots of things less expensively. When I lived in the States, everything in America was so much cheaper than it was in England. I think America was cheaper. And also the exchange rate was very different. It was $2 to the pound. And certainly in the New York area, things have become very expensive.
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Dennis Scully
So if Sean can't get over the price of a $20,000 sofa in the US, what's a great sofa coming out of the UK? Is it half that? Is it?
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Rita Koenig
I mean, I would say it's probably 12 or 13,000 pounds. It also depends what you cover it in. You know, the fabrics can vary so dramatically and then the insides. But it's. Yeah, they're expensive. I think you can spend a lot more in America. And also, we've got. All the antiques are here, so for us, it's very easy to send things from here. We have a big container and we send a lot of our stuff from. From England because it's. It's easier buying furniture here. And it's fun for Americans buying them here because they are so much cheaper than England. I think it just feels like Monopoly shopping, you know, it's just great.
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Dennis Scully
Yes. Well, do you take clients from America over to the UK with you to go shopping?
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Rita Koenig
Yeah, often. I'll suggest that they come and say that we can do some shopping together. And otherwise there are sort of furious days at the Bassey Fair on a. On a phone, sending pictures and showing things, but it's always better to sit. And also it's fun. I mean, that is a fun bit of decorating. And if some clients don't want to shop, but if they do, I think it's a really. It's a fun thing to do together. And also it's a really nice thing when you have your house, to remember that buying some of the things, rather than it all just appearing right. And also, you get to know somebody so easily on a shopping trip. You know, you're together, chatting, you see what people gravitate towards what they like and don't like. And you also have an opportunity to explain things and your thought process behind them much more. You know them. Sometimes there are things that, when they're on a page, sent over an email and somebody looks at it and just goes, oh, no, I don't like that. No. And I've done it too, when things are sent to me. But if you're with somebody, go, oh, look, how about that? That would be great here. Because of this. And have. And if we use it in this way and we added that or changed, you know, suddenly things change a lot. It's a bit like dating, you know, you look at a picture of somebody, you're like, oh, really? I don't think I fancy them. And then if you hadn't seen a picture of them and you'd met them, they look completely different because they're amusing and intelligent or they're incredibly attractive and irritating and annoying and rude and they're not attractive. And things are a bit the same, you know.
- [16:27]
Dennis Scully
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Rita Koenig
Well, I think you want both. You know, we're so lucky to suddenly have this way, to be able to do it quite quickly. But the thing when you go shopping is you have no idea what you're going to find. Whereas when you're shopping online, you sort of got to slightly know what you're looking. You know, you've got to ask the search engine what you want to look for a bit. And when you're scrolling, I suppose when you're scrolling through Instagram, funny enough, I've stopped doing that. I used to do it so much and I, I sort of decorated North Farm entirely on Instagram, really lying on a sofa, scrolling, which was amazing. But I do, I also love dealers. I Think they're so as a sort of genre of people, they're terrific. They're like gardeners. They're a bit eccentric. They're all quite different. They love what they do. They're always on the road finding things. I like the mix and I like finding and I still do it online. I think it's really useful. It's so much become so much easier, which really just means you have a richer selection because you've got it coming at you all the time. But going out shopping is really good too. I like that.
- [18:55]
Dennis Scully
Well, and as you say, I mean the colorful characters that are the dealers themselves make it and especially if you're taking a client around and I'm building.
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Rita Koenig
Those relationships, you know, with them sending you things that they think you like or keeping things for you. And I like all of that. Chit chat.
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Dennis Scully
Yeah, no, that seems to be an important part. And in the US are people. You and I, when last we spoke, were talking about so many Americans very much wanting this English countryside look. And do you find that still the case?
- [19:31]
Rita Koenig
It seems to be long may it last. And I think also as long as they all like going to 5 Hertford street and they like that. I think Robyn Birley's done a lot for this look and showing people how, you know, rooms can be so comfortable and collected. And I think that is the, that's the change.
- [19:54]
Dennis Scully
Do you think that's. That's what it is. It's. It's this sort of collected feel and.
- [19:59]
Rita Koenig
I think probably collected and layered, but also remaining modern and crisp. I don't like too much muddle or mess or clutter, but I do think that the layers are so lovely. Pictures and books and things and comfortable sofas and fires and log baskets and things just make you want to settle in.
- [20:25]
Dennis Scully
I was talking recently with the editor of House and Garden, Hatta Bata.
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Rita Koenig
Yeah.
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Dennis Scully
Yes. And we were talking much along these same lines of the kinds of projects that she looks for, how she wants that magazine to feel and the lack of celebrity covers and all of that. But real homes and sort of a homey feeling to things. Even if often, of course, they're very grand homes. Right. With 24 foot ceilings and all of that, but still feeling warm and real. And I think that that's part of what's so appealing. It's striking to me how many American designers love that magazine so much. And I think it's.
- [21:09]
Rita Koenig
I think it's something also that the Brits have always. I mean, if you think of that white drawing at Chatsworth. I mean, you can't get a house grander, really. I mean, you probably could, but, I mean, that's. That's up there as the sort of pinnacle of a grand house and a grand room. And I would say that that room, as it was then, had a softness and a comfort to it that did make you think, oh, I could really spend an afternoon in that room sitting around chatting or reading or, you know. And so I don't think that grand should negate warmth either. I think the two can. It's a bit harder, but they should be able to coexist.
- [21:52]
Dennis Scully
Absolutely. Speaking of house and Garden, a belated congratulations to being named, my goodness, the Interior Designer of the Year from House and Garden.
- [22:02]
Rita Koenig
Thank you so much.
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Dennis Scully
That was very exciting, I would imagine. And it was so sweet the way they talked about how they had first introduced you, I guess, in. In 2001, remarkably saying, oh, they had an eye on you then and knew that you were going to be.
- [22:16]
Rita Koenig
I know, the whole thing was really lovely. It really took me by surprise. And in fact, it was last January that Hatta rang me and told me. I was absolutely, really bowled over. I thought she was. I don't know what I thought she was ringing about and it was just the nicest thing. And then when she gave it to me and said that, it was also rather amazing to realize a. How old I am. Shocking.
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Dennis Scully
So there's that moment, sure.
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Rita Koenig
But, you know, how long one's had these relationships for is so nice. And Sue Crew was the editor then and she published my Apartment back then, which was lovely. And I've had my column. When I came back from the States, I had a column on House and Garden. And so I really know the team there. And funnily enough, knowing that they had voted for this and Owen, who's the picture editor, said, you know, it was really. We all did and we were so pleased. And sometimes being voted by your sort of peers and colleagues is even more touching. So often the person, you know, you just think, oh, that rubbish that she produces, or, you know, whatever. It's really. It was really especially touching that they thought that anyway. Couldn't be more delighted, really.
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Dennis Scully
Well, it was very exciting and I love all the coverage that it got and I'm always curious because. And again, congratulations in the US AD100. And that's very exciting for you as well.
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Rita Koenig
Thank you.
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Dennis Scully
Right, so I'm wondering, do those two things land differently? So in the uk, does something happen to. Is your. Is your life transformed when you're named the interior designer of the. Of the year in. In House and Garden, you know, I.
- [24:12]
Rita Koenig
Mean, wobbles beneath me. There's a. I think. I think that it's funny because I think it has. That a lot has happened in the last year. You know, that was incredible. I moved into this apartment that I'm in now, which was also published by Hassan garden, and the AD100 came out, which felt very different this year somehow from previous years.
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Dennis Scully
How so?
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Rita Koenig
I don't know why I felt like it was heard much more than the previous years. I've been on it. I feel like I've grown up. I mean, I turned 50, I redid my apartment. I was the designer of the year thing. I just. I do feel like suddenly, finally I must have grown up. But the business has changed.
- [25:03]
Dennis Scully
This turns out to be the big news here. We are thinking the big news is you come to America. Turns out you've actually become an adult. Rita, this is so exciting.
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Rita Koenig
But it's sort of. I think the business, the jobs, they are sort of changing, and what's required has changed, and the budgets have changed. And it's very exciting because we're able to work with really amazing people and the specialist painters and the detail in that and looking at the trim colors differently and specialist painting the trim rather than just flat painting it, and the enormous difference it makes to a room and how it elevates a space. So that is exciting, and that's the change that I really feel.
- [25:49]
Dennis Scully
Well, I'm so curious about how that really does feel for you, because it sounds as though what you're suggesting is that you've reached this level in your career where the scale of projects is quite different, and the work, therefore, that you're able to do as a result is even more layered and detailed. And it also sounds, and I'm guessing these go hand in hand, that perhaps there are greater demands on you as well. Or more.
- [26:23]
Rita Koenig
Well, the bar is higher, which is. You know, it's really exciting delivering those really excellent things, working with the really good upholsterers, working with the really great people, making beautiful rugs, making beautiful embroidered fabrics. We did a. We did a curtain the other day for somebody. You walk into the house, and at the end of the hall is this drawing room with French doors going outside. And these. These windows are very dramatic. I can't get saying we really need something amazing on windows. And in the end, I realized it was like there wasn't a meterage fabric that was going to really do the trick, and it needed to Be separate to what was in the rest of the room. And so I went to see Christine Vanderhard, who I just think is so talented and actually also won an. She won a lifetime achievement award at the center, which was so lovely to be on there with her because I. I think she's just terrific. And we did this beautiful curtain in felt which she did all of this folk embroidery on. And she took the fabric herself to India because she was like, I can't bear it. Get lost or get mucky or get. Something will happen to it. So she took it herself. She brought a sample back that when we. I burst into tears. It was so beautifully done. It was so exciting. It was unlike anything I'd seen before. It was so. You know, the curtains are amazing. The client was thrilled. And it was just all those things are so exciting when you can start doing those really special things that are actually special rather than just expensive and not special, of which there is a plethora of that.
- [28:05]
Dennis Scully
Yes.
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Rita Koenig
You know.
- [28:07]
Dennis Scully
Yeah.
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Rita Koenig
I think that's why so much now is about experiences and people having unique experiences and those things that money can't buy. And in many ways there's so much wealth in the world, weirdly, as well as things becoming so unaffordable. But those things that are very expensive can become very ordinary. So it's finding the things that aren't, which is so I find is the fun and is really our job. And that's what I like doing.
- [28:37]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Ernesta. Ernesta's designer quality custom size rugs are the foundation to an elevated space. Help your clients transform their homes by joining Ernesta's trade program. As a member of the Ernesta trade program, you'll get preferred pricing, free unlimited 12x12 samples and dedicated services such as a personal account manager and a trade only website. To learn more about joining this exclusive program, head to ernesta.com boh that's ernesta.com boh and now back to the show. Take me back to this, to this moment that you're in right now of sort of recognizing how far you've come in your career. Suddenly, whatever scale you are appearing in the United States right now. And let's see if it justifies opening up a big office in the coming years. Who knows?
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Rita Koenig
I know it's always a bit of a leap of faith, isn't it?
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Dennis Scully
Well, but it may well make sense. But it certainly seems as though your business has grown and people's awareness of you has Grown quite a bit as well.
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Rita Koenig
I think Create Academy has had a lot to do with that sort of recognition and things.
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Dennis Scully
Yeah. I mean, and I wonder what people have reached out to you from that or how that. And are you planning new things there or what's in the works?
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Rita Koenig
Well, I'm actually talking to them this week. We're going to be talking about doing something. I've just done a second course with them, which is fantastic, has been great. And so there are two courses on Create Academy now. But, you know, the second one, we did this project and Deborah Needleman's. And so it took a long time because it was happening sort of in real time. And so I'm working on something with them that we can do something more that's a bit quicker, that's more podcast or YouTube or something that we can do that's more like a visual column or an oral column or something that we can. We can send out because it feels like we've got this lovely audience and we need to build on that.
- [31:05]
Dennis Scully
Well, so in all of the different things that you're. That you're doing collections for Schumacher and the Create Academy, as we've talked about, where do you want to go with all of this now that you've grown up, in your own words, and now that the firm has achieved a certain level, what would you like to see happen with it? What's most appealing to you?
- [31:29]
Rita Koenig
I think what's really appealing now is I would love to do a few terrific jobs. You know, the really those. Those lovely jobs that you get really stuck into with a great architect and with a client who is, you know, the collaboration is as much. The client is so important in that collaboration as the part of the team where you. Where one can do these terrific things. So I never really want to stop doing that, but maybe cherry pick them a little more and do fewer better ones and also build this other side of the business, which is either with licenses like Schumacher, with some of those terrific companies. I've been so lucky that Schumacher came through and there are a few others in the pipeline this year that itching to tell you all about, but aren't quite.
- [32:25]
Dennis Scully
Oh, you can't tell me yet there yet.
- [32:28]
Rita Koenig
And also media. I've really enjoyed the sort of the media of Create Academy and I would like to do that a bit more. And it's been my desire, actually, to have these two branches of the company so that, you know, with decorating, I am pedaling the bike and there's a part of the business that I'D like to grow where I pedal the bike and give it some momentum and off it goes.
- [32:53]
Dennis Scully
Right.
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Rita Koenig
Which is the sort of fabrics and those things. And then keep the decorating as the really bespoke luxury couture house thing.
- [33:05]
Dennis Scully
Well, it's interesting about the media side of it because we've been talking a lot lately about how much opportunity there is now for someone like you to create media and to teach people about decorating, as you've done through Create Academy, but also share your insights. And in many ways, your columns were so popular and so widely read and people felt like they got to know you.
- [33:37]
Rita Koenig
Yeah, they were like letters. Really. Yeah. I mean, I've written a column since about 2002. My first one was En Vogue, and I do enjoy imparting that wisdom and sharing that knowledge and sharing that information. And I had a terrific editor when I was on the Telegraph magazine, where I had a column on the Saturday magazine, which was in sort of 05 around that time. And she said, you've got to. You have to give information that the column is only interesting if you are giving people information, you know, good information that they go away with. Five things that they have learned rather than your lovely life is not interesting unless. Unless they come away with something. So that was a very good lesson and I really love it. And I think if you love a subject, you want to share it. And people have often said to me, I can't believe you give so much away. I can't believe you give so much information away and tell people so much. And I always think, well, you know, three people go into a paint shop and buy all the same paintbrushes, paints and paper, that and paint the same thing. They're all going to look very different. So it's great to share. And I think a lot of people don't want a decorator. They do want to do it themselves. And it. I understand the joy of it, and so I think they should be able to do it themselves. It seems so mean not to help people along.
- [35:04]
Dennis Scully
It's so selfish to not share that.
- [35:07]
Rita Koenig
There are also plenty of people who do not want to do it themselves.
- [35:10]
Dennis Scully
No, no, of course.
- [35:11]
Rita Koenig
Those are the ones that are going to come to me. I think they are two very different camps. And I don't think you're going to not get a client because you told someone how to do it.
- [35:18]
Dennis Scully
I'm so glad that you said that because I feel so often so many, so many retailers are offering free design services, for example, and some people think that's the end of Western civilization and that designers are going to go out of business, and no one's right. But as you say, they're two very different people. They have. Right?
- [35:39]
Rita Koenig
Yeah, they are. And also, anyone can say they're a designer. It's up to you to decide which one you want to go to and what the end product is.
- [35:47]
Dennis Scully
Well, and I also think that if they get a taste of, let's say, they do have some wonderful shop where there's some very talented person working there who helps get them going, but can only take them so far. If, in fact, they're working for this shop, then they're going to say, oh, my gosh, I get it now. I see what a designer could do for me. Let's find a real designer and get going.
- [36:09]
Rita Koenig
Yeah. Or the girl that. Or boy person who starts in. In that shop might then become a designer. You know, that might be the place that they begin.
- [36:17]
Dennis Scully
Right.
- [36:18]
Rita Koenig
I think there's room for everybody, really, and all variations of it.
- [36:22]
Dennis Scully
Do you feel that way when it comes to these. These lists? And I'm thinking specifically about the AD 100 for a moment, because one of the things that was striking, perhaps, about this year's list was how many. I'll make it personal. How many people I felt I had never even heard of on the 8100 list, which is not usually the case.
- [36:45]
Rita Koenig
That's just because we're getting old, Dennis.
- [36:48]
Dennis Scully
It could be suggesting that. Reid. I was hoping we weren't going to go there, but it felt as if there were many people that were on that list that had only been around for a few years. And I thought, oh, you know, this is interesting. And is this ad trying to send a message that maybe this list means something a little different today? We're gonna try and include some fresh faces or some people that we think you should be aware of, and we recognize that the greats will always be the greats. But also, Dennis, here's some people you've never heard of and look them up and see the interesting work they're doing.
- [37:24]
Rita Koenig
I think. Well, I obviously want to be quite cautious of how I proceed here, but I think. I mean, lists are. They're so objective as well, aren't they? And that's what's sort of fun about design, is that one thing to one person is another is another to somebody else. And we all like different things. And also, I've often grown up listening to, you know, my mother's generation going, I mean, can you believe? And the younger generation don't Know anything about how to pipe a thing or do a this or this, that and the other, or none of which I know how to do.
- [37:54]
Dennis Scully
I can hear your mother in my ear right now. Exactly.
- [37:58]
Rita Koenig
And so I sort of feel like I want to be a bit careful of doing that because I have not known or been taught the things that they were taught. And I suppose that is the same of the ones coming up behind us. And sometimes you need that freshness of not being told. The way to do it is you can't possibly do a this, that and the other without doing it that way. And that roof's gonna fall in if the. You know. So the only thing I really mind about is passing off and copying. And that's the thing I just think is the kind of the pits is, is that. And I think a young person with fresh. Somebody's got taste, has got taste, you know. And it's quite exciting when somebody with a new eye and a new take on things that really is original is fantastic. And if they're young, you know, they probably are going to be doing things a bit differently or not quite so properly and not so perf. Perfectly. And. But they're gonna learn as they go along. So I think it's really exciting. I think new, original eyes. I think that original eye is really exciting. And the only. I mean, the thing that really pisses me off is. Is copying.
- [39:18]
Dennis Scully
Yeah. Do you want to call out any names of people there? Rita? Anybody that comes to mind?
- [39:23]
Rita Koenig
I don't need to make any enemies.
- [39:26]
Dennis Scully
No, no.
- [39:27]
Rita Koenig
But it happens a lot. And I. And I. And often people don't even notice because they might not know which one came first. And that I just. I think, is just a low bar. But I think that youthful energy is exciting, actually.
- [39:43]
Dennis Scully
That's in part the positive spin that I am trying to put on what was clearly a very different feeling list of people that were on there. And I think in part because my wife worked at AD for so many years, I have this sort of page Rents, you know, sort of. Yeah, the bible in my head. Yes, exactly.
- [40:03]
Rita Koenig
And so, I mean, it certainly is. And it's amazing. It is amazing. To be on that list and to be recognized by them is really, you know, fantastic.
- [40:15]
Dennis Scully
Well, and I mean, and it's interesting that it finds you at a time where you feel that you've grown into so much of where you are in this moment.
- [40:25]
Rita Koenig
But what's funny is that before, I can't remember when I first went on it, I think this might be the third. The Third year. It sort of wasn't an amazing. It was an amazing. But I'm not sure I quite believed it, actually. And then suddenly, in the last year, everything feels a bit more like. I think I just feel a bit more comfortable in my seat. It's probably a disaster. Disastrous.
- [40:52]
Dennis Scully
That's when it all goes down.
- [40:56]
Rita Koenig
I have. My imposter syndrome has just subsided a little bit. Well.
- [41:03]
Dennis Scully
And I mean, I think also, listen, you had a big shadow to come out from under, and I feel as though you have. And so I think you. Right. And I think you are hopefully feeling a tremendous sense of both accomplishment and confidence. And I know it's not very British to get overly confident and boastful.
- [41:33]
Rita Koenig
No, you have to be very careful. Knocked off the pedestal.
- [41:37]
Dennis Scully
That's right.
- [41:38]
Rita Koenig
But it is very nice. And I think that it's sort of becoming. Beginning to feel that I can stand next to my mother is. Is very nice. And. And also, increasingly there are people who don't know that she was. Is my mother, so. Which is also, you know, very nice, rather than it being the words that come before. Walk into the room before you is also, I suppose part of the growing up feeling is, is that that one standing alone?
- [42:09]
Dennis Scully
No. Absolutely. And as you say, to be on the same stage or to be. And I thought it was interesting to see Bunny Williams come on the Create Academy platform with a. I actually suggested that. Did you? Okay.
- [42:24]
Rita Koenig
I said, you've got to. I think she would be terrific. I mean, that. It's sort of who I wanted to hear and listen to myself. It's so terrific to have, you know, have those designers like my mom and Bunny, who are this sort of old guard who really know how things are done. And to learn from that is. Is so great. Even if you want to decorate differently. It's so interesting to hear those lessons and hear those rules and hear those thought processes which actually so many of them are so similar to my own and how they're just obviously, you want to make a room convivial and so that there's, you know, those rules don't seem to ever change because they are about comfort rather than you must put a check with a stripe or whatever other nonsense there might possibly be about decorating. Not, you know.
- [43:19]
Dennis Scully
And I mean, as you say, it's what's so fun about Bunnies. We're seeing her home in the country, her apartment in New York. And it's one thing to hear people express the cornerstones of good decorating and having the table by the chair. You can put your drink down and all of that. But then while she's talking, to be able to run your eye around the room and see the choices that she made. Yeah.
- [43:44]
Rita Koenig
And also listen to that voice that's like, funny. So nice.
- [43:51]
Dennis Scully
Rita, such a pleasure to spend time with you and I thank you so much for making the time.
- [43:55]
Rita Koenig
Oh, Dennis, thank you so much. It's always lovely to have a good old chat with you. It's very nice. Thank you for having me.
- [44:03]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next.