Ruggable's 'overnight success' was a decade in the making

Summary

Business of Home Podcast Episode: Ruggable's 'Overnight Success' Was a Decade in the Making
Release Date: October 21, 2024
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Geneva Bell, Founder of Ruggable

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully delves deep into the intricate journey of Geneva Bell, the visionary founder behind Ruggable. While Ruggable's machine-washable rugs have garnered widespread acclaim and commercial success in recent years, Geneva's path to this achievement was anything but swift. Spanning nearly a decade, her story is one marked by perseverance, numerous setbacks, and relentless innovation.

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Foundational Years and Early Aspirations

[02:52] Geneva Bell: Geneva begins by recounting her academic prowess, having graduated cum laude with a finance degree. Despite her sharp mathematical skills, she admitted feeling unprepared for the entrepreneurial challenges ahead. Geneva's early career involved diverse roles, from a cashier in Las Vegas to a cocktail waitress, where she gleaned valuable life lessons about passion and enjoyment in one’s work.

Key Insights:

• Passion Over Hard Work: Geneva emphasizes, "There's more to success than just hard work. You have to really be passionate and you have to really be fun to work with" ([02:52]).
• Early Realizations: Her stint as a cocktail waitress revealed the importance of enjoying one's work, not just putting in long hours.

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First Forays into Entrepreneurship

After moving to Los Angeles, Geneva ventured into the cosmetics industry, working as a marketing assistant at Sebastian International. Her initial entrepreneurial attempt involved launching a perfume line priced at $35, which unfortunately did not yield the desired profitability. This setback taught her crucial lessons about pricing strategies and unit economics.

[07:00] Geneva Bell: "I really didn't know what I was doing, but I was doing it." ([07:00])

Challenges Faced:

• Profitability Missteps: Pricing her product too low resulted in unsustainable profits.
• Financial Strain: Accumulating a $35,000 business loan without the means to default led to significant personal debt.

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Navigating the Real Estate Market and Renewed Entrepreneurial Spirit

Following her initial business failure, Geneva pivoted to real estate in Las Vegas. However, the timing coincided with the post-Hurricane Katrina market downturn, leading to another setback. It was during this period of uncertainty that she reconnected with her entrepreneurial spirit, inspired by observing successful product reinventions like Joy Mangano's Huggable Hanger.

[10:46] Geneva Bell: "This was when she was on air selling the huggable hanger...something that everybody needs." ([10:46])

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The Birth of Ruggable: From Idea to Prototype

The concept of Ruggable was conceived from a personal frustration—her dog had urinated on a new rug, leading her to envision a washable, interchangeable rug system. Collaborating with her former business partner, Sarah, they embarked on creating the first prototype using a yoga mat and Velcro.

Key Milestones:

• Aha Moment: Discovering the need for a practical, machine-washable rug inspired by her own experiences.
• Initial Prototype: Constructed from readily available materials but lacking in aesthetic appeal, necessitating further refinement.

[16:38] Geneva Bell: "It takes a long time. From 2008 until about 2010, we worked on a prototype." ([18:02])

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Challenges with Licensing and Early Licensing Deals

Geneva and Sarah pursued licensing deals to bring Ruggable to market, securing a patent-pending status that initially protected their innovation. However, their early licensing partnerships with major retailers and the Home Shopping Network proved ineffective, leading to stalled sales and unmet expectations.

[20:26] Geneva Bell: "It was 11 minutes at the end of the hour...the price wasn't right. The designs didn't wow anyone." ([20:26])

Impact of Licensing Setbacks:

• Delayed Growth: Licensing deals failed to translate into substantial sales.
• End of Partnerships: The prolonged stagnation led to the dissolution of the partnership between Geneva and Sarah.

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Overcoming Financial Hardships and Securing Investment

Facing personal debts nearing $200,000, Geneva reached a turning point by shifting her business model from licensing to direct-to-consumer sales via an optimized Shopify website. A pivotal moment came when a friend introduced her to a venture capital firm interested in investing $600,000—a substantial boost compared to her initial $50,000 request.

[32:36] Geneva Bell: "Your pitch deck with a VC firm...invested $600,000 instead of the $50,000 I asked for." ([32:36])

Outcomes of the Investment:

• Launch of Ruggable.com: Enhanced online presence and sales capabilities.
• Strategic Talent Acquisition: Bringing in top-tier talent to manage operations, allowing Geneva to focus on product development and marketing.
• Debt Freedom: By 42, Geneva was debt-free, marking a significant personal and professional milestone.

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Evolution of the Business Model: Made-to-Order and Minimal Inventory

One of Ruggable’s key differentiators is its minimal inventory, made-to-order model. This approach not only reduces waste but also allows for rapid adaptation to market trends without the burden of excess stock.

[35:12] Geneva Bell: "We have a very low inventory, minimal inventory model... it's a really amazing business model." ([35:12])

Advantages Highlighted:

• Flexibility: Ability to quickly introduce new designs without significant upfront costs.
• Efficiency: Lower operational costs by eliminating surplus inventory.
• Sustainability: Reduces environmental impact through decreased waste.

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Collaborations with Renowned Designers

Ruggable’s collaborations with esteemed designers like Cynthia Rowley and Jonathan Adler have been instrumental in elevating the brand's aesthetic and market presence. These partnerships allow designers to infuse their unique styles into Ruggable’s product line, appealing to a diverse customer base.

[40:38] Geneva Bell: "The first collaboration was with Cynthia Rowley... It was really cool and fun." ([40:38])

Key Collaborations:

• Cynthia Rowley: Development of a 300-foot rug for New York Fashion Week.
• Jonathan Adler: Diverse designs catering to varied tastes, enhancing the brand’s appeal.

[42:25] Geneva Bell: "Competition's always good... it makes people work harder and innovate better." ([42:25])

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Addressing Market Perceptions and Competition

Initially, Ruggable faced skepticism regarding the quality and functionality of machine-washable rugs. However, as product quality improved and designs became more appealing, consumer perceptions shifted positively. The emergence of competitors has further validated Ruggable’s market presence, encouraging continued innovation.

[44:00] Geneva Bell: "There are 70% of households that have a dog or a cat... you have to be a little bit more practical." ([44:00])

Strategic Responses:

• Quality Enhancement: Continuous improvement to meet high aesthetic and functional standards.
• Market Validation: Competition reinforces the necessity and success of the product.

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Future Directions and Innovations

Looking ahead, Geneva is excited about introducing tufted rug covers, which offer a thicker, more cushioned feel compared to the flat-woven versions. This innovation aims to cater to customers seeking both comfort and durability without compromising on style.

[48:51] Geneva Bell: "The tufted rug cover is three times thicker... it's a game changer." ([48:51])

Vision for Growth:

• Product Diversification: Expanding the range with new materials and designs.
• Global Expansion: Maintaining and growing operations across multiple factories in the U.S., Canada, the UK, and Australia.
• Sustainable Practices: Continuing to minimize inventory waste and enhance production efficiency.

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Conclusion

Geneva Bell's journey with Ruggable is a testament to resilience, strategic pivoting, and unwavering belief in one's vision. From overcoming financial hardships and failed ventures to securing significant investment and fostering designer collaborations, Ruggable stands as a beacon of innovation in the interior design industry. As Geneva aptly puts it, “There’s so much more to success than hard work—it’s about passion, adaptability, and seizing the right moments.”

[51:32] Geneva Bell: "I hope everyone enjoys it." ([51:32])

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Notable Quotes:

• Passion Over Hard Work:
  Geneva Bell: "There's more to success than just hard work. You have to really be passionate and you have to really be fun to work with."
  [02:52]

• Realizing Limitations:
  Geneva Bell: "You really have to make something. You actually have to make money."
  [29:39]

• Impact of Competition:
  Geneva Bell: "Competition's always good... it makes people work harder and innovate better."
  [42:25]

• Product Innovation:
  Geneva Bell: "The tufted rug cover is three times thicker... it's a game changer."
  [48:51]

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Geneva Bell's narrative underscores the essence of entrepreneurial spirit—embracing failures, learning from them, and persistently forging ahead to achieve lasting success. Her story serves as an inspiring blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs in the home industry and beyond.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Geneva Bell, the founder of Ruggable. In recent years, Ruggable's machine washable rugs have become a bona fide hit product, but the company is anything but an overnight success. Geneva's story is an agonizing tale of false start, setbacks and roadblocks. It took almost a decade of effort to get Ruggable off the ground. Today it employs hundreds across three factories and drops regular collaborations with top designers like Martin Lawrence Bullard, Jonathan Adler and Justina Blakeney. I spoke with Geneva about how she found the resilience to get through hard times by reading memoirs, beats looking at social media and why there's more to success than just hard work. This podcast is sponsored by Four Hands. This fall, the highly celebrated Amber Lewis and Four Hands collection expands to over 450 pieces with more of the approachable, forever cool styles you already know and love, plus all new pieces to add to your collection. Look for the reimagined bestsellers in new fabrics, finishes and sizes and new pieces featuring clean lines and fresh contemporary takes across living, dining, outdoor and more. Explore the full [e-mail] starting October 22, or shop the collection in person at Fourhand's High Point Market showroom October 26 through the 30th. This podcast is also sponsored by Surya, the trusted source for design forward rugs, furniture, lighting, wall decor and textiles. Backed by the highest stock rate in the industry, Surya helps designers execute projects flawlessly. For those heading to High Point Market, Surya invites you to explore hundreds of stunning new designs inspirational their expansive, immersive flagship showroom, Showplace 4100. You can also visit Surya.com today to open a trade account and start exploring exciting product curations that were designed to inspire. And if you're coming to High Point Market, be sure and join me, Dennis Scully and Business of Homes Executive editor Fred Nicholaus as we host a live Thursday show from Surya's Showroom. Surya's president Satya Tawari will be on hand to share his plans for the company's future. You won't want to miss it. And now, on with the show.

[Geneva Bell]

There's so much to discuss with Ruggable, but I feel like we have to get into the founder story and all that you went through and so I don't know when you got your finance degree and you were coming out into the world, cum laude and whiz kid in finance. Were you thinking, the world's my oyster, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and, and tackle the business world?

Yeah, kind of. I, I sped through college. I was very eager to get out into the world and to make money and be successful. I completed my, my coursework in three years. But what I didn't understand is once I was out into the real world, that there were all these different options and there really wasn't a roadmap. I didn't really know there would have been had I wanted to be an attorney or if I knew exactly what I wanted to do. But I really didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I just knew I was good at math. I really didn't even think I was creative. And I loved math because there's a right or wrong answer. You know, you can do this whole problem and you can think you're right, but you can double check in the back of the book. And I always, when I started to get into this creative world of being an entrepreneur, I always wish I could just look in the back of the book and see was that the right decision that I just made? Yeah. So I've always loved working. I mean, my first job was at 15 and a half. I worked as a cashier at the guest store and the Forum shops in Las Vegas, which was a really cool mall at the time. And, and then I've been a receptionist, I worked at a car dealership. And the cocktail waitressing was something that being from Las Vegas, you could always come back to and work cocktails in the summer. And that's what I did. I came home to Vegas at least twice in my 20s to regroup. And one of the interesting things, I learned something from every job. And one of the interesting things that I learned with the cocktail waitressing job is that everyone else around me was making more money than I was making. And I, but I was working really hard and I had busy sections and I was, I thought my job was to deliver their drinks. It's hot, they want their drinks. And I would just very orderly, kind of like flow at Mel's Diner, take the order and I'll go, go back to the counter and hurry up and bring their like icy drinks back so they wouldn't be melting. And at the end of the day, all the other girls are making, you know, 500 and $600 to my 180 hard earned dollars. And I didn't even realize until years later When I just realized it all around about myself need to be enjoying what I'm doing and I have to be passionate about what I'm doing and I have to really be fun to work with. And those girls were enjoying it more. They were getting to know everybody. They loved that we had visitors in town and they were chatting everybody up and telling them where they should go eat and giving them all these recommendations. And I was just racing to give them back their ice cold drink. But there's more to success than hard work. You know, you have to really be passionate and you have to. I know being passionate almost helps you be in the right moment at the right time, if that makes sense.

Did you become a more bubbly cocktail waitress and start getting bigger tips and did you, I mean, throw yourself into it or did you have to move on?

I really wanted to leave Las Vegas and I went and I moved with my friends in Los Angeles and I got a temp job. And during my temp job I had time to look online. And at the time it was monster.com. so I went on monster.com and I found a job as a marketing assistant. But for whatever reason, I wasn't meant to do it. The job that I was able to get as a marketing assistant was for this company called Sebastian International, a very avant garde, creative, fun, useful hair care and cosmetic company in Southern California. So I ended up getting a job there and immediately just lost. I had an amazing boss who's still a mentor to me today, who I adore. And I was so lucky to have her as my boss. She was the creative director. It went really well for the first three years because I was very passionate and I loved it. And I was promoted a couple of times and I was really in my groove. But then they were purchased by a huge company called Wellow, which is a hair care company.

Sure.

And then everything changed and they were talking about moving it to Europe and there was two of everybody for every department. And it really, the passion really affected how we operated, but ultimately had to start plotting my next step. And so I thought, you know, I'd love to learn more aspects of the business. So I'm in marketing right now. I'd love to understand, you know, what are they talking about? What are all the people, you know, in the C suite talking about in these board meetings and what is operations? What are their goals? And you just really can't understand all aspects of a business unless you've kind of like worked at a really small company and seen it grow. So I had Met a man at a convention that I went to for the cosmetics who did fragrances. And I knew that he, his company made the fragrance oils for top names like Dolce Gabbana and these big designers. So I knew the quality of the fragrance oils were good. And my idea was to create a product that was less expensive for someone like me, who's just starting out, who's not making a lot of money, who can't spend over a hundred dollars on a bottle of perfume. So I did that, but I made a big mistake because I priced it at $35 retail, which was way too low. And I just wanted to give them the best possible deal possible. I didn't really understand profitability. I really didn't know what I was doing, but I was doing it. And I was able to deliver, you know, create a product and get it launched and get it into 19 Nordstrom stores, Henry Bendell in New York and boutiques, all on like a $35,000 small business loan from bank. So it was quite a feat, but it wasn't going to go anywhere. And it didn't go anywhere. I mean, if you think about it, if someone buys one fragrance, which it took six months to get into Nordstrom, if someone buys one fragrance, I'm maybe going to get $16. I mean, the, the unit economics just didn't work. I mean, you'd have to have a very high volume business to not have, you know, high profitability. So I learned a lot from that. It was honestly sad and depressing for that not to work. You know, you, you go after your dreams and you're in your 20s, so you really believe in your dreams and, and you know, you put your whole life into something and then you end up having debt as a result. So then I walked away. And it's this whole concept of being able to just like file a bankruptcy or move on or close your doors and move on really is, isn't true. I mean, you have to personally guarantee these loans and to file bankruptcy you even need a lawyer. I mean, this is a whole complicated process. So I just had to pay off that $35,000 loan somehow. So I just went back home again and tried to figure out, you know, what my next step was going to be. And that led to getting a real estate license and starting to work in what was a booming high rise condo real estate market in Las Vegas. The only thing was that my timing wasn't great.

The moment, the only problem with it.

Was the moment that I had my first job in one of this really exciting new high rise project. Hurricane Katrina hit, and then just. It never really caught momentum, and we didn't really know why. But then all of a sudden, the bubble burst, and then we knew why. So here is my good fortune again with having fabulous bosses. So I had a fabulous boss named Sarah who had worked for 10 years in the real estate industry. And she. She was laying in bed, down and out. Neither of us had a job. And she was watching the Home Shopping Network, and she was watching Joy Mangano. And if you don't know Joy Mangano, there's a movie about her called Joy with Jennifer Lawrence. But this is before the movie came out. So the movie came out years later.

So this is when she was being the person that you get.

Yes, this is when she was on air. And she was on air selling the huggable hanger, which you may not know it's called the huggable hanger, but the original velvet textured hanger that helps your clothes from, you know, stay on the hanger, not slip off. So this was really brilliant. And my former boss and former business partner, I'll call her Sarah, she saw how brilliant it was, how this woman just reinvented this household staple. It was something that everybody needs and so kind of under the radar. And she just loved it, was so inspired. And she knew I had the product development background and a passion for being an entrepreneur. And she knew I was just, you know, trying to do real estate to try to pay off this debt and have another nest egg for whatever my next idea could be. So she came to me and she said, you know, I have the money that I've made from, you know, before this all fell apart. I have some money at $50,000. I can invest in this and I can get on air and sell, but I need you to come up with the product and to, you know, I don't know, create the product. You know, that was the part that she didn't know anything about. We started a company without even having any ideas. We named the company product Bliss. Okay. With a tagline. With a tagline. Making life easier. One product at a time. So our ideas were going to come out just like Joy Mangan. She has all these products. We have all these products. So now we're just going through our lives thinking, what can I make better? What's a household staple that I could make better? And I thought about, for just a hot second, I thought about a coffee cup that had a suction cup at the bottom so that you wouldn't spill your coffee in your desk. But then it just took a few minutes before I realized if you wanted to lift that coffee cup up to actually drink it, it would splatter all over your face and everywhere. So we just kept trying to think of ideas and we couldn't think, we couldn't actually think of anything for a while. And she bumped into this guy who happened to work for the Home Shopping Network. And it was like this serendipitous event. So she's in an elevator, she's like, you're never going to believe this. I met this guy and he works for hsn and he's one of these people, third party people who helps you get on air. And I told him we were going to send him an idea and we didn't have an idea. But she's like, but these shoes that I found when I was traveling, they're the most comfortable shoes. Like, maybe we could just try to sell these shoes. So we sent him a pair of used shoes and he just, he just came back to us and said, I think you guys are great, would love to work for you, but come up with a good idea.

Well, and so help me make the leap from the suction cup, coffee holder, the secondhand shoes, and, and, and the ruggable concept that was to come.

Yeah, well, I think what's so interesting about it is for weeks I was trying to think of something and I ended up needing to get a full time job. So I had a full time job. And I'm back in that LA traffic again on a Friday and the traffic's terrible. And I get home and I had a studio apartment at the time with white carpet and white walls and it was kind of depressing so I wanted to add some color. So I had, I had really invested $300 on a five by seven rug and I was living by myself. It was hard to get it in the car, it was hard to get it. It was a big ordeal to get this rug laid down the floor and have it. But it was really great and it added some color into the apartment. When I came home on one of those Fridays, my dog just within a week of getting that brand new rug, had peed on it. So I tried to go out and buy a miracle carpet cleaner. I tried, DIY techniques with, you know, hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. And I remember when I was scrubbing on the floor, trying to, you know, scrub this smell out and I looked to my right and I saw my bed because I'm getting them in a studio apartment. I see my bed, and I see the comforter and the blankets on it, how large they are, but that they fit in a home washing machine. And this kind of goes into my brain at the same time that I realized that my mom, who's a dog lover, who at the time had started rescuing dogs and had, like, too many dogs, like over 10 dogs, and she was using. This is kind of gross, but this kind of plays into the story. But she was using pee pads for a long time, and then all of a sudden, it's a lot of waste of plastic, and it's expensive to keep buying these, you know, basically diapers over and over again. So she started putting towels down on the ground, and the dogs would pee on the towels if they had to pee in the house, because there are a lot of small dogs. And I'm thinking at first at how gross that is, but then she's washing them, and the towels are coming out clean. With all the boosters that we have now, we've got all these oxygen boosters and great washing machines and great detergents. So that all kind of came together in my head, and that was the aha moment of, oh, my gosh, I just need to be able. The rug should be able to be separated, so I could take this decorative fabric portion off, right? And then I know that I can bunch that up and put it in the home washing machine, and then it's going to get thoroughly cleaned. You know, you're not going to have a bunch of stuff stuck at the base of, like, carpet fibers that you just can't thoroughly clean no matter what you're doing. But that's how it should be, and it should be as easy to wash as you're bedding in your towels. And so I called Sarah and I said, what do you think? And she said, oh, my God, I love it. And I. You know, what I love most about it is you can change out the COVID you can get multiple covers, and you can change it out for seasons and holidays. So she loved that aspect of it. For me, I always loved, you know, just the big rug, you know, because it's such an investment to be able to just know that you're buying this rug. That's a lot of money, and that you're going to be okay with dogs and kids and people coming over and spilling stuff. It's not going to ruin your rug.

And so take me from so. So you've shared this concept with a bunch of people, and everyone says, yes, we do need this. We would love this, but you have no idea how this can be made and.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Geneva Bell]

And all of, all of the things involved. So tell me. So you and Sarah decide, okay, this is it. This is the idea we're going to try and make happen.

Yes. Yeah. So it wasn't long before we realized, okay, this is the right idea. And I just started with a yoga mat and Velcro that I purchased at Home Depot and fabric that I purchased at the local fabric store and I created. The first prototype was basically a yoga mat with Velcro all around the perimeter of the yoga mat with a corresponding cover. And what I noticed was that it was definitely going to be washable, but it wasn't going to be beautiful and that was going to be a problem. You try everything and you have to just keep trying. So if you don't keep going in those hard moments, I think you, you know, you don't get to the breakthrough.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Geneva Bell]

And give us a sense of how long this process is taking and what's the time period that we're talking about.

Oh, so it was a long time period. So 2008 was when we came up with the idea and having a patentable idea. The upside was that it really helped us in the beginning. I think it really protected us, but it also made it really difficult because it was something that had never been done before. And you do hear a lot of this isn't possible or we can't do it. And even with that, and even if you keep pushing on it and keep working on it, it does take a long time. So from 2008 until about 2010, it takes us to even have a working prototype. So it's two years. It's, it's, you know, if you kind of try to bring that down, like what that feels like on a day to day basis is that you've put a package together, you've sent it out to a supplier, you've waited six weeks or eight weeks for them to work on it and get back to you, and then you finally get that sample back and then you Wash it, and it falls apart instantly, you know, and just kind of going through that process over and over again for, you know, two to three years, it's hard. It's hard to be patient like that. But we believed in the product, and we just kept moving forward. And then we went into the next stage of difficulty, which was, okay, this could work. We can get these two pieces to cling together the way that they need to. But now how are we going to make good designs? And at the time, you didn't. There wasn't digital printing technology on fabric, so we went did woven fabrics. But the issue with woven fabrics is, number one, we're making fabric, not rug. So it's not a rug machine where they can make the border and the center medallion. The fabric machines don't work like that. They have different types of weaves that they can do, and that's it. So ended up doing just basic colors. So we just did, like, a tonal taupe, which would actually sold pretty well. And then we did, you know, a red and a lime green, which, admittedly, was not a good choice. Neither Sarah or I were interior designers, just so, you know. So neither of us had a textile background. So this is kind of. You can start to get the feel of why this took so long to take off. So, you know, we finally get everything together. And we were able to secure a licensing deal because we had a patent pending. So we're able to get a partner to come on and really help us. And we jumped through all the hoops for six months to get on the Home Shopping Network. This was why we did it. This is where we. Where it was.

This is the dream coming true. Here we go.

This is the dream coming true. And it came down to 11 minutes at the end of the hour. And we go on. And I did it a couple of times. She did it a couple times, and it doesn't sell very well. The price wasn't right. The designs didn't wow anyone, or they weren't compelling. That was really difficult because that was our goal. And so then you have to ask yourself, okay, what are we going to do now? For years, people were telling us, you know, you should go on Shark Tank. You should go on Shark Tank. Why aren't you on Shark Tank? You should try Shark Tank. I heard it thousands of times, and we wanted to go on Shark Tank, but we were always in these licensing deals, so we were already in deals that we were hoping that were actually really good. The second one was one of the biggest carpeted rug manufacturers. In the US and you know, one of the amazing things about having a patented product or patent pending product, which we did get the patent right before this deal closed, and that was contingent on the deal closing. But now we had a patented product. The amazing thing is that you can license it to a big company, they can do it for you, and then you just collect royalty checks and you just can sit back and drink pina coladas and read books on the beach. But the downside is that they take, they can take your technology and they can, they own it now and they can have it sit on a shelf until they kind of want to deal with it. And so we basically lost about two to three years in that whole process and nothing ever happened.

And that's what they did. They just took it and did nothing with it.

No, they, they were always going to be presenting, you know, next month, next month, next month we're going to present to Bed, Bath and Beyond. Nothing ever happened. So we end up getting that license back. From 2008 to 2014, we were basically stuck in licensing deals and we were relying on them to do it. And we also had, if it wasn't the Home Shopping Network, our main focus was big box retailers. I mean, that was. I had it backwards. I think a lot of us had it backwards. I was thinking, I was thinking we need to get into these big box retailers to make money so that we can invest it on Ruggable.com and then build the business even more on Ruggable.com, but first the money needs to come from sales, from big box retail. And it didn't work that way. So. And then unfortunately, the partnership between Sarah and I ultimately came to an end because it was such a long, it really was such a short story to tell now, but it was a very hard, long journey that just wasn't working out. And she ultimately just wanted to go in a different direction. So. But I didn't want to give up on it and I just still believed in the product and I was super passionate about it. And so then what I did was I ended up getting into a third licensing deal. But I learned from my mistakes and I didn't give them an exclusive license.

Okay.

I said, you can have the license for just getting into bedbox retailers. I said, but I'm going to keep ruggable.com and I'm going to keep designer collections and, you know, a baby line. I just wanted something to be able to do if they were stalled or not doing anything. And they worked so hard and they were, you know, ended up getting it on websites. But no one, oh, we did do one Lowe's test. Okay, so Lowe's, we did have one buyer who tested our product in Lowe's, so we were able to get into about maybe 50 lows for a test. And again, you know, I have a picture of myself next to the pop display smiling, but it just didn't. It didn't sell well enough. We did get people calling, though, on their customer service line asking where could they buy another one? So you had these one or two people, these early adopters, who were like, this is really cool. Where can I get another one? That plateaued a little bit. That licensing deal plateaued a little bit, kind of two years in. And I just thought, well, gosh, I'm going to have to do this myself and I'm going to have to figure out how to do this. So I redid the ruggable website to make it now based on Shopify, which is the best platform to build a website on. So that was working. And I was starting to get with pr, you know, and SEO, more and more activity on the website, but not enough. And I was kind of having a. Had a series of meltdowns, obviously, through.

All of these years, how were you bouncing back? How were you finding the resilience to come? I mean, this is years of your life, right? And you believe in this product, but it just keeps not happening. And I mean, how did you.

Seriously, you know, you can only work so hard. You know, sometimes you just have to take a step back. And sometimes when you are relaxed or when you do take a break and you go start talking to friends, you know, you come up with different ideas or you get, you know, just taking time off is good and then. But I would always fire back because I believed in the product. And it was really, to be honest, the only thing I had going. Because when you don't have a resume anymore, because now you've been an entrepreneur for all these years, Right. I still have debt, by the way, so I may have paid off the 35,000 at some point, but then now when I bought out my business partner, I took on all the debt of the business and it was over. I think I had almost 200,000 in debt personally, guaranteed. Yeah. And now I'm almost. Now I'm almost 40 years old, so I have no net worth. I have a negative 200,000 net worth. No husband, no children. I mean, I really sacrificed.

Life has passed you by and life.

Has passed me by. Luckily. Luckily, 50 is the new 40. But let me tell you, it went by really fast, and I just felt like I had to dig myself out of a hole. What really, though, all jokes aside, made the difference for me was that I finally had to let go of being successful. Because this was this theme of mine ever since I was in college. Like, I want to get out in the world, and I want to be successful, and I want to make money. And I had to finally stop and say, you know what? You know, do you love what you do? Are you happy with what you're doing? Is this really what you want to do? And I would always come back and I would tell myself, yes. I mean, I love this. I think this is fun. I think these. All these problems I have to solve, I found it fun. And so all of a sudden, I felt just really grateful that the lights were still on, that I was able to survive. My mom was helping me here and there when she could. I had. I had my real estate license. I had some close family friends who bought a condo in Los Angeles from me and used me as a real estate agent. I was able to keep going. And I was so grateful because I really loved what I. What I was doing. And when I stopped trying to make it anything big, I just wanted a business, like, let me just take control. I just want to take orders. I want to ship rugs. Like, I want to get these rugs to customers. I don't want to wait for a buyer to call me back anymore. That's when everything shifted. And that's when all of a sudden, I had all these serendipitous events. I ended up meeting a girl through having the same. Having a puppy from the same litter. I met this girl who knew all about Internet marketing and told me, please don't give up on this idea unless you've done Internet advertising. And we do these ads and we get the return on our investment, like, immediately. And so we. I reinvest the, you know, maybe $700 we got or something, whatever it was. And so I started to feel a lot more confident doing Internet advertising. And I did really strike lightning in the bottle in terms of timing for the Internet advertising. But I still think today it's. It's definitely. It's definitely a key driver for consumer products.

Yeah, but you saw meaningful traction, and the. And the order started to really come from this.

Right. So I saw meaningful traction. But I guess one thing that was really important was that I needed more designs. And so, because I couldn't afford the inventory, because if you're going to have even three different styles and three different sizes with minimum order quantities. Producing the product abroad. You're into the hundreds of thousands of dollars in inventory just for three designs. And that's, that's not enough to. It'd be like having a makeup line with only three lipstick shades. You know, you have to have a variety for people in order to, in order to sell to most. The majority of people who are coming to your website have something for them. So the only thing I could think of was convincing my manufacturer to send me the raw materials to make the rug, send me just the blank fabric and send me the blank parts, and that I would do it myself. Made to order in la. I didn't have the equipment at the time and I wasn't ready to invest in the equipment at the time because I want to just test the idea. So another serendipitous event led me to meet this guy who had is still a part and helped start Fabletics, the fashion company with Kate Hudson. So he knew all about fabric and he was able to introduce me to someone who could do the printing for me locally in la. So I beta tested this whole concept of made to order digital on demand for about a year. And I had never been more confident about the product and the business than I was after doing that testing for a year. So I went back to that guy and asked him for an investment because I wanted, I needed to buy. Everything was working well and sales were going well, but I wasn't profiting. Okay. And so at the end of the day, you do have. Even though you're passionate about what you're doing, you need to make something.

You actually have to make money. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. So I needed everything to come under one roof. I needed to make the rug, print it, cut it, sew it, package it up, ship it out, design it. If everything could come under one roof, then I would have. I knew I would have this big chunk of money to spend on advertising because all of that I was paying triple everything by outsourcing.

[Dennis Scully]

Sure.

[Geneva Bell]

I went to him and I said, will you please Invest? I need $50,000. I can't get a loan for this one printer that I found that I can use. I need a $50,000 down payment and then I can make payments. And I know I can make the payments because I'm already paying more than this to this third party guy who's taking six weeks to give me my rugs. And the colors aren't even right. They keep like changing the settings on their machines. For other customers. And my blue rugs are now purple. And I don't even know how I survived that period of time at Ruggable. But anyways, so this friend of mine, who's a dear friend of mine now, he believes in me, but he doesn't want to invest 50,000 because he knows I need more than 50,000 to really get this business off the ground. And I'm just so used to bootstrapping and being scrappy that I'm thinking, I can do it with 50,000.

You're just thinking, I need the next 50, right?

Yeah, I was just thinking of the next step. Just the next step. But he was like, you need more. So behind my back, he passes my pitch deck to, like, a venture capital group that he had worked with before. And I had already given up on all that. I had done several presentations over the years. It seemed like everyone was looking for the next Facebook. I'd, like, haul in this huge rug and try to demonstrate it to people. And, you know, no one was getting it. Or I wasn't really even properly articulating the unit economics of it because I didn't even have good unit economics at the time and didn't really know how it was going to be profitable. I kind of was just hoping someone would like it enough to invest in it. We could all figure it out together. But the investment really came when I had figured it out. So I was like, here's the profitability. This is how we're doing it. I knew it back and forth and upside down, and it was convincing. And I was able to get that investment. And so now I'm bringing you to 2017 when the investment finally comes in. And Ruggle.com really gets launched with the help of this investment that came in. And not just the money that came in. This. This partner was a perfect complement to me because I was very good at product and marketing and branding, but I was not good at recruiting. They brought in amazing top talent, and I was a little bit too much so used to trying to do everything by myself. It really took these people with such top talent to be able to take all of these big chunks of the business off of my plate. And we did. We never had to turn around and ask for more money.

To summarize this sort of dramatic turning point in the company. So you go to your friend wanting to borrow $50,000, and your friend says, no, no, you need far more money than that to really take this business to the next level. But P.S. i've shared your.

Your.

Your pitch Deck with it, with a VC firm that's very familiar with the consumer space and invest.

Exactly.

And. Right. And if I recall, the first round was something like $600,000 instead of the 50,000 you were asking for.

Exactly right.

Which is a meaningful amount of money. And I'm assuming just this incredible sigh of relief for you. I mean, I can't even imagine how you must have felt in that moment. So you thought you needed the money for advertising. Right. And I assume that that was a part of the key. But as you were just suggesting, too, it was also bringing on talent and really, hopefully taking some tremendous burdens off of. Off of you.

Yeah. So, first of all, this company brings in amazing top talent, but they also share my scrappy kind of way of going about things. So we were very careful with the money. I mean, it's. $600,000 is not a lot of money. We needed a printer. We needed. You know, I have two new hires now who have salaries. So we were very careful about spending the money. And we were really conservative. So we had, you know, office spaces that weren't very nice. I mean, when we started, we just had a sliver of a warehouse in downtown Los Angeles. And then we went to another place that was really economical. And I'll never forget when the head of operations came in only like, four months later and said, we need to move. Like, this is not enough space. We don't have enough space. And that's how fast it grew. Like, we. We couldn't. I kept trying to decorate the offices and make them, like, happy places to live and, you know, getting the coffee set up. And every time I would turn around, we were moving again. It was unsettling and wild and fun and interesting at the same time.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Forehands. This fall, the highly celebrated Amber Lewis and Forehands collection expands to over 450 pieces with more of the approachable, forever cool styles you already know and love, plus all new pieces to add to your collection. Look for reimagined bestsellers in new fabrics, finishes, and sizes and new pieces featuring clean lines and fresh contemporary takes across living, dining, outdoor, and more. Explore the full [e-mail] starting October 22nd, or shop the collection in person at Four Hands High Point Market showroom, October 26th through the 30th. And now back to the show.

[Geneva Bell]

You had talked earlier about having your model evolve to this. I don't know if it was necessarily just in time, but, I mean, it was it was not holding a lot of inventory and being more of a made to order model. Did that work? Was that what made a difference or did that have to evolve as well once this product started to really catch on?

I think it works in so many ways. So going back, I first tried to source in the United States and we called everywhere in the United States. Now the equipment's been shipped overseas, you know, really, really somebody like China for example, and India, you know, that's where all the yarns made and that's where they just, they just have a handle on, on fabric in general. You know, I spent so much time trying to get it produced abroad because that seemed to be the only affordable way to do it and the only way to deliver an affordable product. But it was so hard. And the other thing is that if you're not digital printing, if you're doing the weaving, we went from weaving to screen printing and it's kind of too long of a story, but there's so much color matching involved and so I just thought I'll pay more for the product. I'm willing to do that because I think in general it's going to be a more efficient company. And so I think that's definitely, I know that's definitely one of the keys to our success is that we don't have, we have a very low inventory, minimal inventory model and we don't have a lot of waste and we can react quickly. We don't have to forecast what rugs are going to sell, you know, perfectly or end up with a bunch of stuff that has to go on sale. So there's so many advantages to actually doing it at home. And right now we have three factories. We have, you know, almost 1,000 employees in total in the United States. We have a factory in Los Angeles, Chicago and North Carolina and we've just, we also have a factory in Canada and the UK and Australia. So it just works. And I, I'm so happy that it's kind of like was the only way it could work for me. And it turned out to be like a really amazing business model.

And after all of the time of you, as you said earlier, carrying this on your, on your back, your personally guaranteed loans and all the, and then buying out your partner and just all of the, and then, and then magically this, this VC firm arrives and, and wants to put management in place. And were you just so happy to turn some of those roles over to other people and say have, have at it. You want to, you want to run.

[Dennis Scully]

The day to day.

[Geneva Bell]

I mean, tell me.

Yeah, so I was supposed to be the CEO for, you know, three years, but after a year, it was moving so fast, and it was really all about really building the infrastructure with people really hiring. And that was not one of my strengths. And I'm just better, I think, in the initial phases of a business, that's where I really thrive. And so there happened to be an advisor who was introduced to us by the same venture capital company who is someone who is the head of operations at another company that had just gone through an exit. And he was so impressive, and he had all the answers that we were looking for for operations, which was a big thing that we needed to figure out. And I realized all of a sudden it just came to me like, I need to convince this guy to come and be the CEO. And I was able to successfully do that, and I was able to take, you know, all that responsibility off of my shoulders. And it was also right around that time that I became debt free for, like, the first time in many, many years. And I was already 40. I was probably, I think, 42 at the time.

42 and debt free. And that just must have felt incredible, really.

No, no, it really did. And I had money in the bank, too, which felt even better.

Before we even talk about the collaborations and all the different people that you've partnered with, because that. That seems so central to this, but I do want to just.

[Dennis Scully]

Were there. Were there books that you read about how to get through this kind of experience?

[Geneva Bell]

I absolutely love reading books, and I've always loved reading books. And I read the story the Glitter Plan from Pam Angela, which stands out to me as a book that they really kind of told you kind of how they did things and how they sold the brand. Other girls that came up with juicy couture, the velour sweat, right outfits. And I remember being either a teenager in my 20s and hearing that they had sold it to Liz CLAIBORNE for like $250 million, and I couldn't believe it. And it was so cool. And so their book was really good, the Glitter Plan. I mean, of course I've read Shoe Dog about Nike.

Oh, absolutely.

I've read, you know, a lot of memoirs to know kind of that's when you really understand it's not an overnight success. If you just watch social media, you're never going to understand that concept. But if you read memoirs, you can get a much better feel of, like, what was the real history and then how it finally turned around.

So let's Talk about the collaborations, because it seems as though part of what helps this business to really take off is suddenly all these famous faces are appearing and they're. They're introducing product and Iris Apfel and Jonathan Adler and all these different names. So, I mean, tell me, tell me what the early collaborations were and how you thought about that and how they happened.

The first collaboration was with Cynthia Rowley, and she happened to be a friend of a guy in the investment group.

Okay.

And it was really fun. We actually printed a extremely long, almost 300 foot rug that worked, that functioned as her Runway for a New York Fashion Week fashion show for her. So it was really cool and it was really fun, but that kick started it, and then just, you know, one thing led to the next, and then all of a sudden you have Jonathan Adler doing a collection with us. And that one had such a big impact because, you know, there are people who have great taste and whether it's, you know, fun or ornate or, you know, traditional, but we didn't have those styles available for them. And that was always. What I wanted to be able to do was, was create a diverse assortment so that people who needed a rug because they have small kids or dogs or some other reason why they need to keep allergens, maybe to keep their rugs clean, I wanted them to be able to buy something that they would love and have in their home. So I always wanted to design a design variety. That's the other reason why the inventory model would have never worked for my business, because I wanted to have a lot of designs to share. But to have these collaborations now that are, you know, allowing these designers to really express themselves and their voice is just incredible. I love that we have, you know, the opportunity to be able to do that.

I'm so curious about it, in part because so many of them seem so enthusiastic about it and are eager to form partnerships. And I wonder why you think that is. I wonder what you think the allure is, besides the fun of getting to work with you, what is it that they find so appealing about it?

Well, I think there's not a big risk involved because we're not having to approve one or two designs that, you know, a big rug company would have to invest millions of dollars in to get the inventory, to push it out to all of these big stores. We're just having fun with it. We're letting the designers really express themselves on the rug. We're not dictating too much. We have the. The special way. We have the special know how for how to get that design to re, you know, look well on the rug. But we really try to allow them to, you know, if they want to use bright colors, do it. If you want to do something funky, do it. If you want to, you know, do something a little bit different that you've never done before, do it. So it's. It's really fun and it's. There's not a lot of risk in it. And what we find is that the ones that seem the most risky end up selling the best. So there you go.

There was a moment, and I don't know when it was, where people got over what they thought was this inexpensive, relatively to their world product. And many people might have had their nose in the air about using some machine washable rug, but then, as you suggested, people understood and appreciated the functionality of it and the practicality of it, and they're using all this darn performance fabric in their. In their areas.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Geneva Bell]

And I don't know when those worlds started to collide, but people seem to get over whatever stigma there might have been around this.

Right? Well, first, the first stigma was, I don't think this works. This is like another gimmick. And then the next hurdle was, you know, yeah, people who wanted. Still wanted the feel and the thickness and the beauty and, you know, the quality of a real thick, heavy rug. But I think when you start to see that the quality is getting better and better and that the designs are getting better and better, you know, there's just this. This big elephant in the room that there are 70% of households have a dog or a cat, and that's 80 million households. So, you know, no matter how beautiful your taste is or, you know, how fine you like things to be, if you have a dog or a cat or small kids, you have to be a little bit more practical. And so I think the designs, I think, are what sell our product, but the functionality is what people really need.

And now people have woken up to your success, and lots of companies are trying to introduce a product. And what's your sense of all of that? And do you see anything that gives you pause?

No. I mean, it was great when we didn't have any direct competition. That was really fun, and we hoped it would last a long time, and it kind of did. But now that we have competitors and some copycats, when you have people competing directly against you or copying you, it only validates what you're doing and only validates your product even more. And it validates the market and the need for the product. So, you know, competition's always good and it makes people work harder and to innovate better and innovate faster. And so it's really a positive thing. It's not something that worries me. I'm more worried if something internally is not functioning well at Ruggable. Like, that would worry me more than what the competitors are doing.

Well, so what I'm curious about is the landscape always seems to be shifting, and during COVID we thought, many of us in the industry, that it was all going to go online. Nothing was going to happen in person any more. And it wasn't about having retail locations. It was just about having this great website. Wrong. We were. Turns out people want to go to stores. One of the stores they're going to Costco. Right. Can't stop people from going to Costco. And I know that's one of the partners that. That you've developed. But I'm. But I'm curious about even just your sense of could you imagine ruggable stores popping up? Is that a strategy that you think makes sense, or do you want to be physically in front of people in different ways?

You know, I think that nothing's off the table. I know that giving people an opportunity to touch and feel is really important and to see the product if they haven't seen it before. We've done a lot of Internet advertising, so our names out there, and we want to be able to capture more customers who are not on Instagram and Facebook, you know, and people are still shopping and people. I'm always going to want to go to the mall. My sister's always going to want to go to the mall. It's a great escape and it's fun. Even with clothes. It's great to touch and feel and see what you're actually purchasing. So it's a huge part of the market. It's one of the. It's the place I wanted to go first, but now it's just the other way around.

Well, and it's been interesting to see Morrison Co. Do a partnership with you, and they're looking to expand that brand and make it more approachable and to bring it to a wider audience. This seems to be a way to do that.

Yes. Morrison Co was something I was very excited about because I lean, I guess, in the older demographic, more traditional and ruggable. Never has had enough of the traditional style, in my opinion. We've had a lot of the fun stuff. We've had a lot of modern, contemporary, and I like it all. But I've tried with my own founders collections and with Morrison Co. To bring in more of this kind of heritage feel. Because all it comes back to, to me is not that I think those designs are better, but I know that there are rooms and homes where it's only those designs will work. And I want to make sure that if someone's in one of those homes, that they can have a rug that they love.

We talked earlier a little bit about your tufted rugs and a thicker rug and that you think is going to be really transformational and maybe get a lot of people who might have been.

[Dennis Scully]

On the fence to come and join ruggable.

[Geneva Bell]

Tell me a little bit about that and what your. What you're also working on. I know you're a big idea person, so what you're. What you're dreaming about.

So the tufted rug cover, which I know I've mentioned before, is three times thicker than the regular rug cover. And I just think this is a game changer, because if anyone thought that a ruggable regular rug was too thin. See, I. I see there's a lot of benefits to the thinner one. I still have both in my home, so the thinner one's more lightweight. It's easier to get a big, thin one in the washing machine. I mean, they're not thin, but it's a flat woven. They slide. You know, the door will open and close over the flat weave more than it will the tufted. So I think there's a. There's a room for both. But the tufted is really a game changer, because if anyone really wants that carpet feel under their feet, the tufted delivers that feel, and then you get the extra cushion that comes with that, and it just. It looks better in general. And so I. I really think if anyone has bought a ruggable before and felt that it wasn't really at the caliber that they wanted their rugs to be, that they should check back in and try our tufted cover. I really think that they'll find that it's delivering kind of what I always hoped we could deliver, which is the quality and the style with the functionality.

Okay.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay. All right. So people who were on the fence.

[Geneva Bell]

Again, they've got a reason to come back now. One of the things that I glossed over earlier in the conversation is in thinking about things that are in the news lately and what might be possibly impacting your business. There's a lot of talk in the air as we get close to the election about tariffs and. And a lot of the political candidates are talking about whether we need to raise prices for things that are coming in from out of the country. I don't know if that's something that you think about or that weighs on you.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Geneva Bell]

So we are definitely on top of everything, and we try to do contingency planning for all these kinds of things. And we've been affected already by the first round of tariffs. And, you know, we do everything we can to have it not impact the business. And we'll do the same thing when it comes to anything that may be upcoming. But I think what's most important is not to get distracted by it all and to really just focus on the business, listening to the customers, delivering great product and looking forward towards where you want to go, not what's going on.

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. I have kept you for far too long.

It's been fun.

It's been so great to have you, and I so appreciate it and I'm thrilled to be able to share this story with everyone. So thank you so much.

Well, I appreciate it too. I thank you so much and I'm honored to be recognized in the industry and I hope everyone enjoys it.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online at businessofhome. Where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BOH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're.

[Geneva Bell]

Enjoying these conversations, please leave us a.

[Dennis Scully]

Review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicolaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dan of Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.