Business of Home Podcast: The Thursday Show – "Are Four Out of Five Designers Using AI? Plus: The State of Home Retail"

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Dennis Scully
Guests/Contributors: Fred Nicholas (Executive Editor), Warren Shoulberg (Retail Columnist)
Podcast Timestamp References: [MM:SS]

Episode Overview

This episode delves into two central topics shaping the interior design and home industries:

• The rapidly rising use of AI among interior designers, drawing insights from two major new surveys.
• The current state of home retail: Black Friday fallout, why some iconic retailers are up and others are struggling, and the emerging role of technology in big box retail.

The conversational, lightly witty tone allows for frank industry assessment, making this recap essential for anyone interested in the business side of design, as well as shifts in retail strategy and consumer behavior.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. AI's Adoption in Interior Design

[04:55–11:23]

• Two recent studies provide drastically different numbers on AI usage by designers:
  • FirstDibs Annual Designer Trend Survey: AI usage grew from 9% in 2023, 16% in 2024, to 29% in 2025.
  • Matoboard User Poll: 81.7% of designers (users of the 3D rendering/mood board platform) say they use AI regularly.
• Discussion on reasons for this discrepancy:
  • Matoboard’s user base may be more tech-forward (commercial/contract work, eager adopters).
  • FirstDibs’ data may capture a broader, perhaps more traditional swath of designers.
• Despite uneven adoption, both editors agree AI is becoming ubiquitous among designers, at least for some tasks.

Insightful Quote:

"I don't think designers are using AI for everything all the time. It's really not like that...but at this point the number of designers who haven't at least tried out ChatGPT...is relatively small."
— Fred Nicholas [06:42]

• Skepticism remains: 24% of FirstDibs designers “strongly opposed” to using AI; 54% of Matoboard’s users worry about “homogeneity” and diminished originality.
• Comparisons to smartphone adoption—helpful, but with cultural tradeoffs.
• AI is deeply embedded in workflows: even skeptics would notice if it disappeared.
• A surprising “knock-on effect”: the AI-driven stock market is helping keep affluent clients feeling “flush,” propping up the high end of the design world.

Memorable Exchange:

"Therefore we should speak well of it on the show as it is supporting the entire economy that is supporting the industry that we discuss every day."
— Dennis Scully [11:08]

2. Zillow Removes Climate Risk Features

[11:23–16:53]

• Zillow dropped a climate risk assessment from listings after agents and brokers complained it hurt sales.
• The database feeding Zillow's listings (California Regional MLS) and real estate agents objected to the climate risk tool, impacting the feature’s fate.
• The dilemma: balancing consumer transparency about climate risks with the realities of science (it’s hard to measure individual property risk precisely) and the economic pressure on real estate.
• The feature's removal only hides the risk temporarily; buyers still discover issues during insurance or underwriting.

Quote:

"Zillow taking this listing away does not remove the risk of the flood, it just removes the listing of the risk."
— Fred Nicholas [14:09]

• High-end buyers sometimes willingly purchase risky properties (e.g., cliffside mansions) fully aware of potential loss—a sign of wealth gaps and client prerogative.

3. Home Industry M&A: Somnigroup's Bid for Leggett & Platt

[17:14–22:44]

• Somnigroup (a bedding conglomerate that owns Tempur-Pedic and Sealy) made an unexpected $1.6 billion takeover offer for component maker Leggett & Platt.
• Leggett & Platt, while not a household consumer name, is crucial as a supplier for much of the furniture industry.
• The bid is seen as opportunistic: Leggett & Platt has struggled post-COVID, with slumping stock and layoffs.
• The hosts suggest this could be a sign of more aggressive M&A activity as the market stabilizes (potential “green shoots” of recovery).
• The ultra-high end design market remains robust, but movement in the middle and lower tiers may be suggested by such acquisition attempts.

Notable Reflection:

"In some ways, whether or not you use AI or not, you should be glad it's there because it's keeping clients rich and spending."
— Fred Nicholas [10:30]

4. Home Staging: The Decor that Scares Off Buyers

[23:01–26:04]

• Discussion of Curbed’s article on how sellers’ unique decor choices (e.g., “sophisticated Lisa Frank style”) can tank real estate deals when sellers refuse to stage homes to be more neutral.
• Real estate agents more candidly critique client taste than designers, leading to revealing, humorous stories.
• The era of “do your own thing” in home decor clashes with market realities—staging to a mass audience (often aiming for a “West Elm” look) usually helps homes sell.

Funny Moment:

“There has been an epidemic of puerility in the art world and I will not allow it in my home.” — Attributed to a real estate client, quoted by a broker [25:13]

5. In Memoriam: Robert A.M. Stern

[26:08–27:19]

• Celebrating the influential architect, who passed away at 86.
• Founded his firm in 1977, legendarily designed 15 Central Park West, and was praised as both a visionary and a mentor to many in the industry.

6. State of Home Retail: Post-Black Friday and Key Players (with Warren Shoulberg)

[28:50–54:59]

• Black Friday is less pivotal: promotions year-round, e-commerce dominant. Sales volume is up due mostly to higher prices (not more units sold).
• The gloomier predictions for the holiday season were overblown: retailers did OK, consumers still shopped.

Retail Winners and Losers:

Walmart’s AI-Driven Success

• Walmart is termed “the best retailer in America right now.”
• Their pioneering AI integration: with ChatGPT, customers can shop for gifts entirely through AI, with direct purchasing in-app.
• This trend (“agentic AI in retail”) is predicted to be widespread next year.

Key Quote:

"For shoppers it's a great, it's a great tool and for stores it's good. But...who knows what else you'll find there [on the Walmart website]..."
— Warren Shoulberg [35:15]

Target’s Stumbles

• Walmart’s gains are Target’s losses—once superior in style, Target is marred by operational blunders (the “swag bag debacle” on Black Friday) and weakening store experience.
• Recent internal promotion to CEO may not be the strategic overhaul Target needs.

TJX, Costco, and Value-Off Retailers

• TJX (HomeSense and HomeGoods) is executing well, delivering a sense of “the deal” consumers crave.
• Costco’s clientele trends ever more upscale; the parking lot is increasingly full of luxury vehicles.

Williams Sonoma Group

• Praised for their “balance” in merchandise (kitchenware and furniture) and strong in-store/online mix—helping weather the downturn in furniture.

At Home, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Department Store Struggles

• At Home survived bankruptcy with minimal store closures, but questions remain about its outmoded business model (no e-commerce).
• Bed Bath & Beyond tries to relaunch but faces skepticism, especially about overexpansion.
• Lack of a “superstore” for housewares is noted as a market opportunity, but department store comeback prospects remain bleak.

Wayfair's Brick-and-Mortar Play

• Only a few physical Wayfair locations (similarly for Paragould); expansion is tentative, limited by capital.

The Resilient Consumer

• Despite all economic headwinds, consumers are still spending—buoyed by job stability, rising home values, and cultural holiday momentum.

Witty Closer:

"It's Christmas, god damn it...People are always gonna shop for Christmas."
— Warren Shoulberg [54:23]

Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• "I don't think designers are using AI for everything all the time...at this point the number of designers who haven't at least tried out ChatGPT...is relatively small."
  — Fred Nicholas [06:42]

• "Zillow taking this listing away does not remove the risk of the flood, it just removes the listing of the risk."
  — Fred Nicholas [14:09]

• "In some ways, whether or not you use AI or not, you should be glad it's there because it's keeping clients rich and spending."
  — Fred Nicholas [10:30]

• “There has been an epidemic of puerility in the art world and I will not allow it in my home.”
  — Broker paraphrasing client [25:13]

• "Walmart is the best retailer in America right now. I don't think there's any dispute about that."
  — Warren Shoulberg [33:16]

• "It's Christmas, god damn it...People are always gonna shop for Christmas."
  — Warren Shoulberg [54:23]

Recommended Resources and Industry Highlights

• Market editor Caroline Biggs’ gift guides for designers on BusinessofHome.com [55:25]
• The new Architectural Digest AD100 list is out, with notable new additions and upcoming interviews teased [56:11]
• For more industry news, job listings, and workshops: businessofhome.com

Takeaways for Those Who Missed the Show

• The AI revolution in design is accelerating rapidly—expect near-universal adoption soon, but fears of job replacement appear overblown.
• Home retail is in flux: market share is flowing to the most adaptive, tech-forward players, while once-dominant stores struggle—or disappear.
• The home consumer is surprisingly resilient, propping up the industry despite economic volatility and structural shifts.
• Humorous and candid exchanges keep this in-depth analysis both relatable and insightful for interior design and home business pros.

For full magazine-style anecdotes and more color, listen to the episode at businessofhome.com/podcast.