Business of Home Podcast – The Thursday Show

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Host: Dennis Scully

Guests: Fred Nicholaus (BOH Executive Editor), Michael McGraw (Publicist-turned-Gallerist)

Episode Overview

This week's Thursday Show dives deep into the latest developments shaping the interior design industry, with a lively discussion between host Dennis Scully and executive editor Fred Nicholaus. Topics include significant changes in trade tariffs, the ongoing evolution of sourcing and pricing platforms, the ripple effects of major retail bankruptcies, the growing influence of AI (ChatGPT) on client-designer dynamics, and the rise of social media-savvy “loud luxury” among the 1%. In the latter half, Dennis sits down with veteran publicist Michael McGraw to discuss his career shift into launching his own collectible design gallery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Quick Catch-Up and Previous Highlights (00:36–04:06)

• Snowbound Inspiration: Fred jokes about how winter storms could spark new design business by making people sick of their sofas.
  “Maybe now’s the time to call up your clients and say, are you sick of your sofa?” — Fred (00:57)
• The hosts reflect on the Monday episode with Madeline Stewart, her Hollywood connections, and the enduring humor and depth in her design work.

2. Tariffs on Indian Imports – Relief for the Rug & Textile Sector (06:01–07:47)

• After a year of punitive 50% tariffs, the U.S. and India have reached a deal to lower these to 18%, providing huge relief to the design industry (especially rug and textile importers).
  “A sigh of relief is heard across the rug industry... 18% is certainly better than 50.” — Fred (06:31)
• Fred notes, “If you’d said 18% a couple of years ago, everyone would've lost their mind, but compared to 50% it’s a relief.” (07:23)

3. Activist Investor Drama at Cherish and Live Auctioneers (07:47–08:39)

• Fitz Walter Capital, a major shareholder, withdrew its hostile takeover bid.
  “After 12 rejections, maybe we don’t want you to take over our firm.” — Dennis (07:47)
• Despite the saga’s impact on stock value, "it’s a fascinating story" for designers who rely on these platforms.

4. Tech Solution Spotlight: The ‘Anywhere’ Directory for Designers (08:39–13:56)

• 'Anywhere', a new startup by Ann Corgan and Laura Nguyen, aims to centralize product/pricing info across brands for designers.
  “Instead of chasing around the Internet... you can just go to the site and find it all in one place.” — Fred (10:28)
• Not transactional for now, emphasizing practicality over trying to recreate e-commerce.
• The challenge: “It’s hard to build them no matter what... the industry can be sort of like herding cats.” — Fred (10:28)
• The need for critical mass and up-to-date data is highlighted; Dennis expresses hope but realism about the heavy lift.

5. The Saks Bankruptcy—Ripple Effects and Retail’s Struggles (14:23–18:35)

• Saks’ bankruptcy leaves fashion and some home brands owed major sums (Chanel: $136 million).
  “It’s going to be textbook — what not to do.” — Dennis (14:48)
• Some home brands/suppliers are affected via e-commerce; designers like Jonathan Adler are among those dealing with fallout.
• Dual concern: When either a vendor (e.g. Mitchell Gold) or a retailer fails, both designers and manufacturers suffer.
• The loss of physical retail is “not good for any industry” — especially for product discovery and brand building.

6. Discussion: Are Department Stores Doomed? (18:35–19:35)

• Dennis laments poor management and the sidelining of great merchant culture:
  “Great department stores need to be celebrated and run by great merchants... not just people who want to sell all the underlying real estate.” (18:44)
• Notes Bon Marché in Paris as an example that the model can work if well executed.

7. The Rise of ChatGPT in Client-Designer Interactions (20:22–26:19)

• Increasingly, clients are “getting a second opinion from ChatGPT” on everything from paint colors to layout decisions—even when working with top designers such as Ray Booth and Andre Mellone.
  • “The client would go, ChatGPT, the designer says 33. Like a parrot on her shoulder.” — Fred (21:15)
• Mixed outcomes: Sometimes AI boosts the designer’s case (e.g., ChatGPT agrees with their budget); other times it affirms client preconceptions regardless of expertise.
• Key Insight: “People come to see chatbots... as a source of truth... but really, they’re just agreeing with you.” — Fred (23:58)
• Both agree this is the start of AI’s impact: “We’re just at the tip of the iceberg.” — Dennis (25:52)

8. Cultural Shifts: Loud Luxury and the 1% on Social Media (26:19–31:08)

• Discussion of “loud luxury” as wealthy individuals increasingly flaunt their lifestyles on social media—contrasting the once-private ethos.
• Designers remain divided: Private clients still rarely allow their homes to be published, yet there is “much more willingness somehow” to showcase extravagant living. “If more people are willing to show it off, perhaps it'll be great for designers and vendors and more of the word will get out there.” — Dennis (31:05)
• Dennis wryly notes how this trend chafes against his “WASPy heart.” (31:08)

9. Interview: Michael McGraw’s New Gallery Adventure – DYNAMICS OF COLLECTIBLE DESIGN (32:57–59:22)

Michael’s Career Journey (33:08–35:05)

• Started in PR at PETA running celebrity campaigns (“rather go naked than wear fur”).
• Shifted to LaForce, gained design clients, founded McGraw PR in 2011.
• “From the very beginning, 100% design [focus].” — Michael (35:14)
• His husband, David Duncan’s antique business, inspired him to combine editorial savvy with the business acumen needed for a gallery.

Launching Dernier Cri Gallery (40:34–42:40)

• Gallery name: Dernier Cri (“the latest thing” in French).
• First show, “Night Shift,” challenged diverse artists to create works exclusively in black, creating a unified experience from disparate media.
• “I have always loved the color black... limiting the palette to a single hue would be a way to unify.” — Michael (40:53)

Navigating Logistics & Tariffs (43:00–45:55)

• Gallery born during Covid reflections: “The future is now, and not getting any younger. What are you waiting for?” — Michael (43:00)
• Discusses the pain of tariffs: Tariffs are charged upon import of unsold art as well, regardless of whether it sells or is returned abroad.
• “The tariffs have been so damaging to the American design world... but we’re learning to deal with it.” — Michael (44:37)

Curatorial Philosophy & Collectible Design (46:50–51:09)

• McGraw sees himself as “a designer’s gallerist,” focused on unique pieces that feel like they were created “for no one other than that homeowner.”
• Addresses the term “collectible design”: Despite some industry pushback, feels it’s shorthand that resonates globally.
  • “Collectible design kind of goes hand-in-hand with functional art... pieces that defy a certain time period, are... uniquely artistic, and hopefully have some permanence.” — Michael (48:17)
• Gallery pieces are available as-is but also as templates for “designer-artist collaboration” (commissions, customizations).

The Changing Landscape of PR & Media (52:49–58:58)

• Fewer print opportunities; the distinction between digital and print is eroding: “You have been published by that media property.”
• Social media and video is crucial for reach and engagement—even if many designers are camera shy.
  • “The algorithms prefer people talking, they prefer videos... that's the content that will perform the most.” — Michael (55:47)
• TikTok trends come and go, but Instagram remains pivotal. McGraw admits even he needs to take his own advice to get in front of the camera.

10. End-of-Show Industry Highlights (59:29–62:48)

• Tariffs Legal Maneuvering: Some home companies now pre-emptively suing the US government for potential tariff refunds; McGee & Co. among them.
• Firm Leadership Transitions: Veere Grenney elevates Natasha Greg as partner, signaling thoughtful succession planning.
• Mitchell Gold’s “Third Act”: Industry veteran moves into consulting post-Surya, offering lessons from a storied career.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Maybe now’s the time to call up your clients and say, are you sick of your sofa?” — Fred (00:57)
• “A sigh of relief is heard across the rug industry... 18% is certainly better than 50.” — Fred (06:31)
• “If you’d said 18% a couple of years ago, everyone would've lost their mind, but compared to 50% it’s a relief.” — Fred (07:23)
• “Great department stores need to be celebrated and run by great merchants... not just people who want to sell all the underlying real estate.” — Dennis (18:44)
• “The client would go, ChatGPT, the designer says 33. Like a parrot on her shoulder.” — Fred (21:15)
• “People come to see chatbots... as a source of truth... but really, they’re just agreeing with you.” — Fred (23:58)
• “If more people are willing to show it off, perhaps it'll be great for designers and vendors and more of the word will get out there.” — Dennis (31:05)
• “From the very beginning, 100% design [focus].” — Michael (35:14)
• “The tariffs have been so damaging to the American design world... but we’re learning to deal with it.” — Michael (44:37)
• “Collectible design kind of goes hand-in-hand with functional art... pieces that defy a certain time period, are... uniquely artistic, and hopefully have some permanence.” — Michael (48:17)
• “The algorithms prefer people talking, they prefer videos... that's the content that will perform the most.” — Michael (55:47)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:36–04:06 – Quick catch-up, Madeline Stewart episode recap
• 06:01–07:47 – India tariffs news
• 07:47–08:39 – Cherish/Live Auctioneers takeover saga ends
• 08:39–13:56 – Sourcing & pricing tech: the ‘Anywhere’ platform
• 14:23–18:35 – Saks bankruptcy & retail consolidation discussion
• 20:22–26:19 – ChatGPT’s rise in client-designer relationships
• 26:19–31:08 – Loud luxury and wealth on social media
• 32:57–59:22 – Michael McGraw interview: career, gallery, collectible design, and PR/marketing shifts
• 59:29–62:48 – Industry highlights and closing thoughts

Tone & Language

The conversation was lively and candid, mixing industry in-jokes ("I'll give you my Venmo for a quick cut") with thoughtful analysis and a sense of camaraderie. Dennis and Fred pepper the show with both optimism (for tech and design’s adaptability) and realism about the industry’s challenges. Michael McGraw brings both humility about his transition (“The future is now, and not getting any younger...”) and an eye for the creative and practical intersections between design and business.

Summary Takeaways

• Major tariff relief for design imports from India will slowly ease price pressures.
• New platforms like ‘Anywhere’ are trying to finally tame the chaos of sourcing and pricing—but face the perennial challenge of getting enough brands onboard.
• The bankruptcy of Saks (and impact on other physical retail) underscores the risks for both manufacturers and designers, as well as the continued value of in-person retail experience.
• AI tools like ChatGPT are changing the client-designer power dynamic, for better and worse.
• Public displays of wealth are becoming more acceptable—even advantageous—for designers seeking more visibility for their work.
• Michael McGraw’s new gallery, Dernier Cri, embodies a curator’s vision honed by years in PR, focusing on unique, collectible pieces and facilitating designer-artist collaborations.
• In PR and marketing, adaptability is key: social media and video engagement is now unavoidable—as is the need for real connections versus just beautiful content.

If you missed the episode, this summary provides all the insight, laughs, and practical takeaways from the rapidly evolving world of interior design and its business.