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Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: Online scammers are targeting designers. Plus: RH's latest earnings call
00:37:45
Host Dennis Scully and BOH executive editor Fred Nicolaus discuss the biggest news in the design world
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Foreign.
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This is Business of Home.
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I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to the Thursday show.
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Today we'll be catching up on the biggest news in the design industry, including.
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The death of House Flipping, RH's latest.
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Earnings report, and a new online scam targeting designers. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Homes executive editor Fred Niklaus. Hi, Fred.
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Hi, Dennis. How's it going?
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Great. How you doing?
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How are you doing?
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I'm good. We almost made it almost to the end of the year. It's time to start coasting as far as I'm concerned, starting with this podcast.
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B
Is this the last Thursday show of the year?
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C
Fred it is. We may have kind of a surprise episode that drops somewhere in the very, very, very end of the year, but this is the last real Thursday show of the year. So how's your holiday season shaping up now that we're kind of in the thick of it?
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B
You know, it's my favorite time of the year, Fred, so it's shaping up quite nicely. I'm staring at my Christmas tree as we record and feeling full of holiday cheer. How about you?
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C
What are the lights? We got white lights, we got colored lights. We're going to be talking about that, but let's just see where you are on the spectrum.
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B
I know, and I think I'm going to alienate a lot of people when I confess that because my tree is covered with Christopher Radko Christmas ornaments, it also therefore has to be covered with colored lights. And I know that's an explosive take that gets a lot of designers upset. I get it. But it just, you know, it just didn't look right the other way. So gotta do it. Sorry.
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C
Well, to the 10 remaining listeners we have after that bombshell, let's quickly look back on Monday's episode, a conversation with interior designer Jessica Helgerson. Lovely person, lovely conversation. What'd you make of it, Dennis?
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B
Exactly. Lovely human, delightful conversation. Someone who is trying to thread the needle of servicing this very high end interior design client and also feeling just a little bit anti capitalist and trying to find lots of creative ways to give back and to share her time with friends and family. She's got a special deal for friends and family and she's also got the 1% project that she wishes more designers and friends would join in and support. But she takes 1% of the revenues and also 1% of her profits and gives it back to various charities that help people who are struggling with housing in her case.
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But really it can be anything.
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She's just eager for people to give back. What did you make of it? Fred?
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Yeah, I mean, all of the above. I thought it was a great conversation and I think more people than you'd think really do grapple with that component of the interior design business, like the fact that you're servicing the uber wealthy and that's where you spend most of your time. But you walk around the streets of any city, you see a lot of homelessness, you see a lot of social issues, and I think people do grapple with that a great deal and I think Jessica just does it very publicly and I think that's really commendable and how cool that she has this project. And I do hope more designers join up. There's lots of fun stuff in the conversation as well too. She had a really interesting youth, not the typical origins. She was running around a punk crew with Josh Brolin or something. Very interesting upbringing and lots of interesting conversations about her business as well. So it was a a lot to commend it.
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B
Yeah. And she shares very candidly some of the challenges. She kept referring in the interview to some of the pain in the design.
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C
There's a lot of pain.
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B
Yes, it was heavy on pain and she's very candid about that. She's also very self deprecating, which is very charming. And for someone as talented as she is, there's a wonderful modesty about her that I quite admire. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll get into the news. Foreign.
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This podcast is sponsored by June Laloy June Laloy is a total home furnishings destination from the family behind Laloy Rugs. Recently celebrating their first birthday. Over the past year, June Laloy has brought us into their world of imaginative design, artisan craft and thoughtful curation across rugs, furniture, lighting, decor and more. With decades of Laloy rug experience behind them, their trade program provides a seamless experience with special pricing and priority support. Always visit junelloy.com to explore their collection and sign up for a trade account today. That's J-O-O-N L O L-O I.com this podcast is sponsored by Programa Studios. Take real risks when specs live across emails, PDFs and old spreadsheets. Programa centralizes everything so updates are controlled, traceable and consistent from design to install. It protects studios from mistakes that cost time and money. Use Boh25 for 25% of your first three months. You'll find the link in the show notes.
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And we're back.
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First up, Fred, there's A new online scam.
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Unfortunately, there is. Last week, boh's Jen Fernandez wrote about a pair of designers who came up against a scammer while shopping for antiques online. This was kind of a crazy one. The scammers are getting really, really good. What'd you make of it?
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B
It's frightening how good the scammers are getting and, and how aware of scammers we need to. So let's tell people exactly what happened and then we can get into some of the details.
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C
Yeah. So these two designers, Bill Brockschmidt and Courtney Coleman, were shopping on this site called Proantic, which is an online auction site that mostly works with European antiques dealers. And they were communicating with what they thought was a seller in Bordeaux, France, who had a sort of 19th century piece. And they were kind of going back and forth about the price, having a very realistic conversation. They got all the shipping information, they put some money into it, and, you know, then the shipper asked them, hey, could you toss in another $5,000, you know, just to, you know, make sure that, you know. And they were like, this seems a little fishy. And they started looking into it and they realized that indeed, this, this was a scam. Someone had kind of hacked into the seller's account and assumed their identity and was passing them on to, like, a fake shipping company that they'd created. And, you know, they. I think they were out maybe almost $7,000 all in, which is a bummer. It's not the end of the world. But it's kind of crazy when you read the story, it' the scam was just so sophisticated.
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B
Well, exactly so sophisticated. And I felt if they hadn't asked for the extra five grand, they totally would have gotten away with it. It was a fait accompli. But then that additional ask just seems suspicious. And suddenly they employed ChatGPT to help them out. Solve the crime.
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C
Right, Exactly. That was kind of. It was AI to the rescue. That helped them sort of realize what was going on here. But it's interesting, I think, that we've all, you know, when everyone got online, there's probably a rush of fraudulent activity that caught everyone by surprise. But I think at this point, we're all now relatively familiar with what the hallmarks of a scam are. We've all got the foreign prince email or whatever, and I think most people don't fall for those things. I think, funny you should mention ChatGPT, because I have to believe that AI is really playing into these scams because I think so much of the markers are more cultural. An email comes in and the English is a little weird or they don't quite get the vibe. But you can just go to any of these chatbots and say, hey, pretend I'm communicating with an interior designer. What's a realistic email to send? And it'll spit something out. Quite realistic. And so I do think people need to be more vigilant in this day and age.
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AI helping criminals to become better criminals.
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Yes.
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And helping people stop them.
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B
So it's AI Exactly. The crime fighter on the one side and then. Yeah, no, no, I mean it's helpful in both ways, but it's a reminder. And unfortunately it's going to get much more sophisticated. And to your point, the foreign prince is pretty easy not to fall for because that seems pretty, pretty exaggerated. And the, oh, I've got a million dollars that I just want to send you. Please send me your bank account information. Right, that's, that's a million dollars to.
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C
Subscribe to my podcast.
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B
No, but I've got this, I've got this antique over here in France and just wire me the money and it can be yours. That, that's what designers do all day long. And, and so as I say, they, they almost got away with it and everything was, was going along. So it, it's a scary reminder that it's going to become more and more challenging. There's so much talk about the deep fakes and all of the tools that people are going to be able to use in the future with AI to scam and who even has their phone on these days? Because it's all just calls from people trying to scam you. It's just everywhere we look.
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C
Yeah. It's interesting because it's like I remember in the very early days of E commerce adoption, there was this widespread belief that no one's ever going to shop for furniture online. And certainly not high end furniture. And then of course that's really been proven wrong and we may have almost sort of over indexed in the other direction. And now people are almost too comfortable shopping for this stuff online. I think people have gotten used to, you know, the security of like a transaction on Amazon where you can always send it back or you know, first dibs, which has a lot of protections baked in. And whenever they shop online, they think, okay, well it'll be okay no matter what happens. But of course, not every site, you know, has the same protections baked in and the same kinds of returns. You know, this is, this is not a commercial for first dibs. But I Do think it explains like, stuff like this explains why working through a platform can be advantageous and safe. Because if you go direct to the seller, then yes, you don't have to pay fees and it's in some ways a simpler sale. But then you're not as protected when stuff like this goes wrong. So you see why sites like First Dibs have as much protection built in as they do.
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B
Well, and to your point, it is such a strong selling point for these sites that spend so much time and dedicate so much of their resources to security. And certainly First Dibs has talked about this a great deal in the past, providing the protection. It was also interesting that this site that this design firm was using didn't offer coverage or wasn't protecting you. Exactly. So they weren't going to protect you on the other side. And listen, you talk to so many designers who are just using Facebook Marketplace so much more and are just using things that we associate with sort of the equivalent of the old fashioned Craigslist listings and just person to person. And there's just a lot of risk in doing that. So it's another reminder, we talk so often about using credit cards. People should be pretty suspicious when the only means of payment are wire transfer or some kind of cash option, which is. Which is unfortunately much harder to try and get back.
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Yeah, no, I think this is just a, just a good PSA to kick the podcast off. Beware.
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Absolutely. Moving on, we're going to talk about house flipping. Selling fixer uppers for a profit used to be a lucrative business. Now the Wall Street Journal is reporting it is on the decline. Indeed. Fred, what do you think?
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C
Yeah, this was a great story because in some ways it's kind of obvious, but you really need like a journalist to come in and sort of point out like, hey, this isn't as much of a thing as it used to be. And I mean, I'm sure you remember, like, I feel like the aughts was really just like prime house flipping decade. You know, there was just so many crazy real estate transactions. You'd always hear about these like, couples who made millions of dollars, like buying a house and selling it for a million dollars more in the next month. And, and now it just seems like it's not as much of a thing. I really wonder what the effects are, but I feel like we should sort of break down a little bit, like why this is so much harder.
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These days what we've seen is a combination of interest rates being higher than they had been, so borrowing costs are Higher. We've seen a rise in building materials, and then we've just seen this incredibly sluggish housing market, which means that both. There aren't as many houses coming to the market, and it takes much longer and more of an investment time to resell the house that you're fixing up, often with a. With a very tight margin.
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C
Yeah, I think there was sort of a misconception during the, like, the heydays of flipping that really it was as simple as buying a house. You know, a coat of paint, three months later, you double the price. A lot of people lost money on house flips if they didn't do it right. The margins were thin. You know, the Journal story sort of profiled this couple who they're making like 15, you know, $30,000 on every house slip, which is good money, but it's not like, you know, snapping your fingers. Suddenly you see the cost of wood go up 15%. You know, all that stuff really makes a difference, cuts into these margins. So there's just like, a lot less volume. I know you were talking about this on Instagram with a few of your followers. There was a designer was saying, it's gotten so much more difficult. Right?
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It's very challenging. The team behind W Design Collective wrote in and saying that her husband flips homes. And he's kind of put it on pause because he pointed out that it's even more difficult than during the great financial Crisis back in 2008 through 2011. Part of it is just because the turnover rate is as low as it. And several people wrote in saying that cost structure, the tariffs, everything's constantly changing. You don't even know month to month what you're really looking at.
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C
I kind of wonder how designers are gonna feel about this, because I think on the one hand, I think a lot of designers really lamented the constant house flipping because it sort of conditioned people to see houses as being just assets that they were going to move on condition people to paint all their kitchens white because they were more sellable. And a lot of the building mater was cheap by definition because they wanted just to make a profit on it. So I can imagine there's some people listening who are like, who cares? Great. Like, more power, you know, I'm glad the house flipping, you know, is calming down a little bit. But on the other hand, I do think, you know, Kaitlyn Peterson, our editor in chief, used to have this great series where she would interview one designer from every state every week. And I was struck by how many designers got their start in the industry through house flipping, it's like they had an investment property and they turned it around and they realized, oh, I love this and I'm good at it. And I feel like with less of that, there's just like less opportunity to kind of get your reps in. And, you know, I do wonder if we're going to see like a decline in new designers entering the market because this isn't as much of a thing anymore. But what do you think?
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So many designers have talked about how much their practice was informed by their own personal house flipping. And a designer was talking recently on the show about how so often you don't get to practice, you don't get to go off and do something on your own. But with house flipping, they were able to go off and kind of, I wonder what these fixtures are like. Let's put them in this house flipping project that were doing. I mean, there were a lot of learnings that came out of house flipping separate and apart from whatever additional income it was providing them. And so I think the fact that this has really been challenged in these past few years does change a lot of things for designers, including that on ramp for so many of them, where many of them just got discovered by the houses that they did.
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C
Yeah, it was a place where you could sort of experiment and make mistakes and it wasn't a catastrophe. It's a place to sort of hone your chops and without it, without it being as big a deal anymore. I do think we'll see some knock on effects, but maybe fewer white kitchens. Maybe that'll be the silver lining here.
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Well, it's funny because a lot of designers wrote to me saying I'm just tired of all the gray. They would paint everything gray. And they said if that goes away, that's fine with me. And yeah, bring on Cloud Dancer, said no one. Moving on, Fred, at last. Next we're going to talk about rh.
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C
Exactly. The retailer formerly known as Restoration Hardware released its latest earnings report last week with mixed to positive results that sent the company's stock climbing in the days to follow. Sort of an interesting quarter. Let's hear what Gary Friedman, chairman and CEO, had to say.
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D
You know, leaders are leading people somewhere. They've never been doing things they've never done, you know, and leaders have to be comfortable making others uncomfortable because that's what leaders do. And starting with the leader, the leaders can be somewhat uncomfortable. Sorry if I'm making you uncomfortable. It's just what I do. That's how I know I'm Leading. That's how you know you're on the right path. But if you can build things that other people haven't built, and if you can lead, you can create a lot of value. I'm pretty comfortable. Like hell. I lived on the edge of bankruptcy my first 10 years. This is not the.
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C
Are you uncomfortable, Dennis, or.
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Well, you. You certainly got the sense that he was making some analysts on the call uncomfortable. Again, whether it was the. Whether it was the numbers, whether it was the spending, whether it was the debt levels, there was. There was a level of discomfort. And. And I. And I get it.
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C
Yeah, this. This was sort of an interesting call. You know, RH reported, like, decent revenue numbers. They increased to 884 million, which was sort of roughly in line with what Wall street was expecting. On the other hand, the bottom line, their earnings per share missed expectations by 20%. So a big number, largely, it seemed like that was because tariffs that had a bigger than expected impact on how much money fell to the bottom line. Also, Paris shocker was quite expensive, and I think that hurt their margins a little bit. So it's a little bit like, as I said, a little bit of a mixed result with maybe they're making more money on the top, but they're certainly spending a lot on the way. But just in terms of the tone of the call, it was interesting. The letter had this little chart in it where Gary Friedman was pointing out, look at all our competitors. Here's how much Williams Sonoma hit revenue growth, and here's how much our house did. And we're at the top of this chart. Why isn't Wall Street. It literally said, we find it interesting that Wall street isn't rewarding us more. And so there was kind of like, I don't know, that tone. It was an odd tone. Certainly, the big stories with RH are like, is Europe gonna work? And what about that 2.5 billion in debt on the sheet? And both of those are unanswered questions. So I think that's probably got investors thinking, where is this really going? And I think on the other side of the coin, you have Gary Friedman, who's really excited about all the stuff that RH is doing. And look at all these incredible. We're making more money, and we're opening crazy things. And look at all these restaurants. The Newport beach restaurant is doing $20 million a year, which is kind of crazy when you think about it. So I understand that there's a little bit of a disconnect on either side of the conversation here.
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Well, you raised the point about the debt. And we keep coming to this just because. What is so striking, a couple of things. We're talking about a company that did.
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$884 million in revenue, and they only brought $36 million to the bottom line.
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They actually paid more in interest expenses than they earned in the quarter by quite a hefty margin. And so this is a company that is paying a lot of money in interest and is carrying around this very heavy debt burden at a time where all the guy does is outline all the challenges. I mean, he' about tariffs are a challenge and the housing market's a challenge. And he. And he's, you know, he's very candid about it all. And he says the worst housing market in 50 years. And as he drives all of that home, a lot of the analysts on the call sounded as though they felt. And one analyst said, well, maybe you should be doing less, maybe you shouldn't be.
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C
That was rage bait. Yeah.
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Juggling all of this. And I, and I do think that. I don't think analysts are really concerned about the growth engine that seems to be this furniture business underneath there and all of the other things going on, but they are concerned that they're just going in a lot of different directions. The hospitality business is clearly a huge focus now. They're talking about doing events in the space and all of these other things. And so there just seems to be the feeling that, are you focused on the furniture? Are you focused on the events? Are you focused on the restaurants? And. And Gary's point is I'm focused on all of them. And that's why this company is so incredible. But at the same time, they've got two and a half billion dollars in.
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Debt and they're paying more in interest.
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Than they're bringing to the bottom line.
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And that continues to be a concern.
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C
Yeah, for sure. I mean, one thing that also came up on the call that it was interesting is they talked a lot more about this new collection that's going to be dropping next year. Now, I think we talked about this back when RH acquired Formations and Dennis and Lean and Michael Taylor Designs. But at the time, the conversation was much more about RH Acquir trade resources and how designers felt about that. But as I think we said at the time, it was all in service of this new collection that Gary wants to roll out next year. And I'm really curious how it's going to go. My impression of it is that it's kind of this. It draws on kind of the postmodern classicism of the 1980s and 90s, the California classicism of that era that Michael Taylor was so good at. I just wonder if that's the right look for right now. He likes to talk about how taste is cyclical. So we've processed mid century modern. Now we're onto the, you know, we've now gone through Italian, you know, modernism of the 70s, and now it's, you know, now we need to get into the 80s and 90s. But, you know, I am a little bit curious because I think RH is never really like, as you said on the call, they're not usually the company that starts a trend. They're a company that figures out what the trend is, figures out how to do it well and capitalize on it. And this seems like a little bit, you know, in advance. So I'm really curious, like what it's going to look like, what they're going to call it. I think it's probably going to be rh Classic would be my guess.
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B
Well, I think he actually slipped the name on the call. I think he referred to a state and I think. And he said, oh, I dropped the name. I should. Let me stop talking estate.
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C
Interesting.
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B
Okay. Yeah. What I thought was interesting is he talked about going back to some of what they once were. And many in the industry have thought that they did go too far into modern and contemporary. And what happened to all of that more classic design. They really got out of that altogether. And one wonders if the pendulum for them is going to swing back in a meaningful way. It certainly sounds as if that's possible and I think that could be meaningful for them. And finally, as we wrap up, I mean, it was really significant. I thought that towards the end of the call, he pointed out the fact that it's been 10 years since they opened the first restaurant and that first restaurant at the 3 Arts Club Club in Chicago, which became such a huge hit. I remember going there in the early days. My son was going to the University of Chicago at the time. Lines out the door, everyone taking pictures. And people were so skeptical then about the whole concept. And of course, RH. RH's restaurant business, if there's one thing there's no doubt of, it's the success of the restaurant business. Whether it all can carry the rest of their business business, we'll see. But that restaurant and the many that followed have been quite successful. I'm eager to have lunch at RH Paris when I'm there in January. And clearly the company is a Successful hospitality company if nothing else.
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C
Fred, indeed.
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B
Moving on, we're going to talk about Christmas. Two interesting takes on Christmas decorating this year for the Times of London. Last week, Hadley Freeman argued that good taste peaked with Gen x in the 90s, while the new York Times reported.
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On homeowners channeling Ralph Lauren for the holidays.
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What do you think, Fred? Is it going to be a Ralph Lauren Christmas?
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C
It's a Ralph Lauren Gen X Christmas is what it is. This is kind of the convergence of the micro. This is a micro trend singularity almost. We're in the middle here, I guess. Let's start with the Gen X thing. I thought that was really interesting. And this kind of tied in with this meme that I've seen a lot of interior designers share over the past couple of weeks, which is showing the Home Alone House as it appeared in the movie and the Home Alone House or images that purport to be the Home Alone House now. And you have this really colorful, multifaceted design of the, of the, you know, the 90s house. And then you have this house flipping gray home as exist in the present day. And people were talking about, yeah, like Gen X really did have it good when it came to decor. I don't know. I don't know. What'd you make of that dichotomy as a member of Gen X yourself? Not a cool Gen zer like me.
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B
I am a proud Gen Xer. You know what, we're very humble. We don't talk about ourselves a lot, to be honest. This whole taking pictures of ourselves and putting it up on social media, that's really not our thing. We like to let our work speak for itself. But I do think what was so fun to go back and look at the Home Alone House and I did deep dive and went on YouTube and watched full house tours and how they made the entire house be red and green for Christmas, every room and all of the tricks and techniques that they used. And oh my gosh, that giant kitchen island in that house and the whole thing, it's really just delicious. And I think it is what so many people grew up thinking Christmas should look like. This rich, decorated look. And I think that Gen X had it right. And I think so many of these articles point to really, it's all been downhill hill after that, you know, sadly.
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C
Well, I'm on record as the oldest elder millennial. Exactly.
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B
I feel like you switch.
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C
I was, I was joking about being Gen Z. I'm firmly ancient millennial. But. But yeah, I think there's It's Christmas is such an interesting kind of rubric to think about style and aesthetics. Right. Because like, you know, the past 15 years have been, you know, more minimal and pared down certainly than the 80s and the 90s, but it's just like it's never sat particularly well with Christmas because Christmas is about tradition. And I think it's. While I do appreciate a good, tasteful beige Christmas when executed well, there's this thing a little kind of wonky about it to me, maybe it's just because I'm an ancient millennial, but it just feels right to see Christmas sort of portrayed in this much more colorful, expansive way. And I think that we've been in a more minimal era for a long time and I that it's swinging back around. All the more reason why Cloud Dancer was just such a misfire from Pantone that we're not having a Cloud Dancer Christmas. I can say that for sure.
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B
No, and I think no one wants us to. I mean, I don't know how it was for you growing up, but my father was taking the Christmas decorations down pretty much right after Thanksgiving those were coming down and frankly, he'd start sneaking them much earlier than that because wait.
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C
Til they'd be up for nine months and be down for a month. Is that what you're saying?
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B
No, no. I mean, he was. They would go up pretty. They would go up pretty early. He'd be bringing them out, you know, pretty earlier in the season and the house was pretty lavishly decorated for Christmas. And there was no, there was no subtlety. There was no subtlety to the Scully family Christmas decorating. And I think a lot of people lean into that these days.
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C
Yeah, well, and then that gets to the next trend, which is Ralph Lauren Christmas, which is really seems to be, you know, remember when the show was like 90% micro trends? Dennis? We haven't really had that as much recently, but now There is this TikTok micro trend, which is Ralph Lauren Christmas, of course, like, they must be so happy over there at Ralph Lauren that they're a micro trend. But it is this kind of like, you know, plaids and, you know, very warm and colorful and kind of traditional styling. You know, not everyone is actually buying, you know, Ralph Lauren products, but they're going for that look. And it's interesting. I feel like, you know, a lot of designers seem to gravitate towards that. I see that shared a lot as well. I know you put this up on Instagram. What'd you hear back?
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B
Well, I think a lot of people do gravitate towards that. And I think people, when they talk about Ralph Lauren Christmas and this whole sort of maximalist idea, I think people love that. I mean, Denise McGehee was like, absolutely maximalist always. Susanna from Chango sent me some pictures of an adorable little Christmas village and Santa. Santa letter station that she put up outside of their townhouse where kids could write letters to Santa. There were a lot of people who were leaning heavily into this is the time you should go all out. And when was this not a trend, for heaven's sakes?
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C
It's funny, there's so many designers who I feel like really connect. I'm thinking of Scott Meacham Wood. I don't know if he's posted about this, but he lives like Ralph Lauren life, though. It's not just.
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B
He wrote to me and he just.
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A
Said, obviously, yes, exactly.
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B
Scott weighed in and said, need you ask basically of where he is coming in? But I did think that some people also said that while they appreciate Ralph Lauren Christmas, I got some fun pictures from House of More Design who said, a little bit more subtle, a little bit more floral. There were just some lovely garlands coming down the stairs and some very sophisticated images of some garland around the mantle and maybe just some amaryllis and things. And I saw that several people wanted to pull that back a little bit, but many, they were willing to go full in summer. Thornton was doing a pretty lavish. I don't know if you saw the other day when she was doing that installation that looked.
- [29:56]
C
No punches pulled, that looked pretty wild. I'm curious. Okay, so let's end the podcast on a controversial note here. So people are embracing the traditional max, the American maximalism of Ralph Lauren co Christmas, but it seems like they're stopping short at white lights versus colored Christmas lights. So what's the designer take on that? Because it seems like the colored lights are part of the home alone Ralph Lauren aesthetic, but there's not a lot of love for them out there. Is that right? Dennis, what do you think?
- [30:22]
B
You know, I agree a lot of designers, I don't know if they just don't think it's sophisticated or I don't know how you can do both. To your point. Right. I mean, the designer Kelsey Elizabeth wrote into me and just said. Said white lights for life. So, I mean, I think. Right. She's got a pretty strong feeling there. But how do you do maximalist and white light? I don't know.
- [30:47]
C
Yeah, well, this is why we're not designers, Dennis. Someone can come on the show and explain it to us next year and we'll get it locked up.
- [30:54]
B
You know, I love the gold balls and the white lights and all of that. It's very sophisticated, so I get it. But I just feel like if ever there's a time to go crazy, crazy, it's Christmas.
- [31:07]
A
Here, here.
- [31:09]
B
That's the final word. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including January's Can't Miss Design.
- [31:16]
A
Events and the best debuts from Miami.
- [31:19]
B
Art and Design Week.
- [31:20]
A
We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break. Scaling a studio without structure often means rework, missed details and stressed tasks. Teams Programa holds the workflow in place from product library to procurement, so growth doesn't create more chaos. It's the system that supports better projects, not bigger headaches. Use Boh25 for 25% off your first three months. You'll find the link in the show notes. Celebrating their one year anniversary, June Laloy is your newest destination for Total Home First Furnishings. As a young brand, they bring a fresh perspective. But as the brand run by the same family behind Laloy Rugs, they bring plenty of hard won expertise. And if you're a member of the trade, June Laloy's trade services remain unmatched.
- [32:18]
B
Backed by 20 years in the industry.
- [32:20]
A
And exclusive benefits including special pricing, a dedicated support team and a seamless sourcing experience. Visit junelaloy.com to explore the latest and sign up for a trade account that's J-O-O-N l o l-o dash.com.
- [32:48]
B
And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the intro industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye?
- [32:56]
C
Well, I just want to say since we had so much Christmas conversation early on in the show, I want to say Happy Hanukkah to all our listeners who celebrate. We need Hanukkah aesthetics as well. We need Hanukkah micro trends.
- [33:05]
B
So great point, Fred.
- [33:06]
C
If it's gonna be a CB2 Hanukkah, let us let us know and write it and we'll talk about that in the show. The New Year. In the meantime, a couple things caught my eye. I'm sure you saw Lily Allen on snl.
- [33:17]
B
Indeed.
- [33:17]
C
Yeah. We've talked seemingly endless about this controversy around Lily Allen and David Arbour's divorce and how Billy Cotton was caught up in A song and it's just been, it's been the, the celebrity gossip we didn't know we needed for the final quarter of the year. But Lily Allen was on SNL and I noticed that in the set design for like she was singing in a room singing one of these songs. And guess what was in the background? The very same Zubair wallpaper that she and David Harbour had in their ad Open Door tour. Tell me that didn't thrill you.
- [33:47]
B
To us it was pretty fantastic. I mean and you know you, you hear so much about the incredible set team on snl but this, this, this shows you the attention to detail to see that Zubair wallpaper was, was fantastic.
- [34:00]
C
I hope it was authentic. If that was a dupe, heads are. Heads are going to roll. 10 part Boh investigation into that. In the meantime, just some business news. I saw that our friends in North Carolina, Eastwork Pottery announced a really big expansion, a $2.5 million expansion. The, they're hoping to double production, you know, in the years ahead. Which is really cool. Just, you know, an American manufacturing business that's thriving and growing and how cool is that?
- [34:23]
B
Yeah, no, no, I was, I was so pleased to see that because we, we spoke to the team there after all of the, the flooding and the damage and the heartbreak and heartache and.
- [34:34]
C
So it was, yeah after Helene which was, which was a real devastation to the area. It's great that a. They're thriving in be that they'll create some new jobs down there. I will say we don't do plugs on this show but East Fork mugs do make for good stocking stuffer or a present. You know, they're good. I'm on record saying I own a few of those and I'm probably going to own a few more by the end of the year. So what caught your eye this week, Dennis?
- [34:57]
B
You know what caught my eye, Fred, was at long last the hall of Fame. A huge industry event put on by interior design and especially by Cindy Allen, the longtime editor in chief who does everything from host the event to film all these incredible videos. And it puts on just one of the most incredible shows and, and certainly the most incredible awards event in the, in the industry. And it has returned at long last to the Waldorf Astoria where I think they have had something between 1100, 1200 people there. It really is quite, quite spectacular an event. And because they are just such a hard working team, they come right back the next day and do their best of year awards.
- [35:45]
C
Don't they know it's time to coast. Time to coast.
- [35:49]
B
They are not coasters there. But I was especially happy to see that was an event that the lovely Mrs. Gilly and I went to for many, many years. And I was thrilled to see it return to the Waldorf Astoria. And if you haven't been to see all the huge renovations at the Waldorf Astoria, it's really tremendous what they did and it looks so beautiful over the holidays. So I encourage people to go and see that. But Cindy, bravo and congratulations on that and it's great to see a big event back where it belongs. On a final note, we mentioned at.
- [36:24]
A
The top of the show that this.
- [36:26]
B
Is going to be our last live show for, for this year. So we just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for listening and thank you for all of the interaction and notes and, and weighing in on the various Thursday show polls and, and we really just appreciate the everyone listening and, and being part of the show. It means a lot to us.
- [36:50]
C
Yes, Fred, yeah, absolutely. Thank you to everyone for listening. It's so gratifying to do this show and it's great to hear from you as well. You know, the show is a conversation between me and Dennis, of course, but you know, I get so much from DMs and interesting ideas for topics and I know Dennis does as well. So please keep on emailing in and letting us know what you think and your thoughts on the topics of the day and we'll keep the conversation going in 2026.
- [37:12]
B
Yes, we look forward to hearing more from you. And in the meantime, we wish you a very happy holiday holiday. And we will be back in the new year. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with.
- [37:23]
A
The latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if.
- [37:30]
B
You want to get in touch with.
- [37:31]
A
The show, write to us@podcastusofhome.com this episode.
- [37:35]
B
Was produced by Fred Nicholas and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.