The Thursday Show: What will happen in 2025?

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: "The Thursday Show: What Will Happen in 2025?" Released on January 2, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 2, 2025 episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully and executive editor Fred Nicholas pivot from reviewing past industry highlights to gazing forward into the year ahead. Titled “The Thursday Show: What Will Happen in 2025?”, this episode compiles insightful predictions from a diverse lineup of thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and creatives within the interior design community.

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Hosts’ Opening Remarks

Dennis Scully introduces the show’s unique format:

“This week, we're not looking back on the biggest news in the home industry. Instead, we're taking a look at the year ahead.” [00:07]

Fred Nicholas shares a light-hearted anecdote about his own experience with interior design:

“I am as clueless as the most clueless client our listeners have ever dealt with.” [00:45]

Together, they set the stage for a forward-looking discussion, emphasizing the collaborative effort to gather predictions from prominent industry figures.

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Guest Predictions for 2025

The episode features a series of predictions from various guests, each bringing a unique perspective to the table. Below is a detailed overview of their insights.

1. Fred Nicholas and Dennis Scully’s Initial Predictions

Before delving into guest contributions, both hosts share their own forecasts:

• Fred Nicholas predicts a shift in color trends, anticipating that "Pantone calling mocha mousse... is a sign that brown is washed. It's time to move on." [02:39]. He also foresees RH launching a new brand extension, RH Color, and anticipates significant moves from Material Bank in the coming year. Additionally, Fred touches on the economic aspect:

  "I think the bond market is going to play a much bigger role on what happens to mortgage rates and therefore housing." [03:38]

• Dennis Scully concurs on the prominence of color in design, highlighting a movement away from neutrals like ivory boucle:

  "So I am very much in agreement with your bold prediction about color." [03:38]

  He further elaborates on the economic landscape:

  "I think the 10-year yield on the treasury note is going to be something that we're going to be following much more closely than ever before." [03:38]

2. Guest Insights

Alexa Hampton – Principal Designer at Markhampton LLC

Prediction: Elaborate Performance Fabrics

"Next year we will see performance fabrics become far more elaborate in their designs because... everybody wants performance fabrics inside their house as well as outside." [05:40]

Alexa anticipates a rise in sophisticated, durable fabrics that blend aesthetics with functionality, catering to both indoor and outdoor living spaces.

David Netto – Founder of David Netto Design

Prediction: Historical and Antique Influences

"We're going to see more young people interested in history and doing sort of historically based decorating with gothic things in it and great antiques." [06:02]

David forecasts a resurgence in historical design elements, particularly among younger demographics fascinated by 19th-century aesthetics and craftsmanship.

Amber Lewis – Founder of Amber Interior Design

Prediction: Revival of Retail Stores

"Our world will start to see the tangible value in keeping all of our Main Street stores alive... I hope people remember the importance of touching, feeling, and experiencing in real life." [06:27]

Amber emphasizes the enduring significance of brick-and-mortar retail spaces, advocating for their role in providing sensory experiences that e-commerce cannot replicate.

Kira Hartnett – Principal at 22 Wallpaper and Textiles

Prediction: Emphasis on Authenticity

"We will all focus on authenticity in the face of dupes and sameness... more authentic in our communications." [07:32]

Kira predicts a trend towards genuine, personalized design choices as a counterbalance to mass-produced and superficially similar products.

Peter Dunham – Interior and Furnishings Designer

Prediction: Increased Home Furnishings Demand

"An increase in real estate transactions strongly predicts a dramatic upswing in the demand for home furnishings." [08:07]

Peter expects a surge in demand for home furnishings driven by heightened real estate activity, coupled with a shift towards artisanal and ecologically mindful products.

Lee Mayer – CEO of Haven Made Brands

Prediction: Return to Normalcy in Home Furnishings Demand

"I have a lot of cautious optimism for next year... a declining interest rate environment... strong consumer investment in their homes." [09:59]

Lee holds a cautiously optimistic view, hoping for stabilized interest rates and robust consumer spending in home furnishings, despite potential market fluctuations.

Satya Atiwari – CEO of Surya Inc.

Prediction: Strengthened Brands and Improved Consumer Confidence

"With inflation easing and consumer confidence improving, we see a better environment ahead." [11:14]

Satya anticipates that easing inflation and rising consumer confidence will create a more favorable backdrop for the home furnishings industry.

Jonathan Miller – Founder of Miller Samuel Real Estate Appraisers

Prediction: Increased Housing Market Activity

"We're anticipating more activity, possibly favoring the higher end of the market." [12:05]

Jonathan foresees heightened activity in the housing market, with particular growth in higher-end segments, driven by consumer impatience to purchase despite elevated mortgage rates.

Bo Stump – CEO of Stump and Company

Prediction: Growth in Mergers & Acquisitions

"We're optimistic 2025 will be a return to form for the furniture industry and confident it'll be a great year for M&A deals." [13:37]

Bo predicts a robust year for mergers and acquisitions within the furniture industry, spurred by strategic acquisitions like Dunes Point Capital’s takeover of Kravit.

Alex Shuford – CEO of Rockhouse Brands

Prediction: Steady Interest Rate Reductions and Housing Market Demand

"We think the Fed will continue to lower rates... a lot of pent-up demand in the housing market is ready to be released." [14:59]

Alex anticipates ongoing reductions in interest rates and the unlocking of accumulated housing demand, fostering growth within the home furnishings sector.

Josh Weiner – CEO and Founder of Silver Lining

Prediction: Focus on Wellness and Yacht-Inspired Designs

"Our clients are concerned with wellness and crafting their living spaces with amenities more closely resembling a spa... inspired by yacht design." [15:37]

Josh expects a trend towards wellness-oriented home spaces and designs inspired by nautical aesthetics, reflecting a desire for comfort and luxury.

Heidi Callier – Principal of Heidi Kellier Design

Prediction: Personalized and Inspirational Spaces

"Homeowners are looking for warm, layered, and really personalized spaces... a renewed attention to details." [17:51]

Heidi foresees an increased demand for bespoke, detailed, and warm home environments that mirror homeowners’ lifestyles and personalities.

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Hosts’ Reflections on Predictions

After compiling the guest predictions, Dennis Scully and Fred Nicholas engage in an insightful discussion, drawing connections and highlighting overarching themes.

Fred Nicholas highlights the positive outlook shared by most guests:

"I did like all the positive predictions. Those are always a good way to start off the new year." [18:01]

He particularly notes Heidi Callier’s observation on clients’ increased travel inspiring more global and unique home designs:

"Maybe that ties in nicely with your prediction or our prediction about the return of color." [18:42]

Dennis Scully echoes this sentiment, connecting it to the anticipated resurgence of color and authenticity in design:

"I think that people are longing to be more true to themselves and express that more through their homes." [19:23]

Both hosts agree on the significance of authenticity and personalization in the coming year, especially as a response to the digital saturation and AI influences prevalent in today’s design landscape.

Fred Nicholas concludes with an emphasis on authenticity as a key driver for success in 2025:

"Focusing on what really matters to you and delivering something that's real and true to yourself is obviously more and more valuable." [19:28]

Dennis Scully adds a personal touch, highlighting his commitment to authenticity on the show:

"I definitely try and bring my authentic self to the Thursday show." [19:57]

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of the optimistic outlook for 2025 within the interior design and home furnishings industries. The consensus among guests and the hosts points towards a year marked by:

• Vibrant Color Trends: Moving away from muted tones to more dynamic and personalized color palettes.
• Emphasis on Authenticity: A push for genuine, personalized design choices that reflect individual identities.
• Resurgence of Retail Spaces: Valuing the tactile and experiential aspects of shopping in physical stores.
• Historical and Artisanal Influences: A renewed interest in historical designs and handcrafted products.
• Economic Considerations: Monitoring interest rate fluctuations and their impact on the housing and furnishing markets.
• Wellness and Personalized Spaces: Designing homes that cater to wellness and reflect personal lifestyles.

As Dennis Scully aptly concludes:

"Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday." [Final]

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for industry professionals and enthusiasts alike, offering a multifaceted glimpse into the anticipated trends and shifts shaping the interior design landscape in 2025.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Fred Nicholas on color trends:

  "Pantone calling mocha mousse... is a sign that brown is washed. It's time to move on." [02:39]

• Amber Lewis on retail revival:

  "Our world will start to see the tangible value in keeping all of our Main Street stores alive." [06:27]

• Kira Hartnett on authenticity:

  "We will all focus on authenticity in the face of dupes and sameness." [07:32]

• David Netto on historical influences:

  "You have lots of young people interested in history and doing sort of historically based decorating." [06:02]

• Heidi Callier on personalized spaces:

  "Homeowners are looking for warm, layered, and really personalized spaces now." [17:51]

• Dennis Scully on authenticity in design:

  "People are longing to be more true to themselves and express that more through their homes." [19:23]

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the pivotal discussions and forecasts shared in the Business of Home Podcast's episode, providing valuable insights for those eager to navigate the evolving landscape of interior design in 2025.

Transcript

[Unknown]

Foreign.

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to the Thursday Show. This week, we're not looking back on the biggest news in the home industry. Instead, we're taking a look at the year ahead. As always, I'm joined by Business of Homes executive editor Fred Nicholas. Hi, Fred.

[Fred Nicholas]

Hi, Dennis. How's it going?

[Dennis Scully]

Great. How you doing?

[Fred Nicholas]

Happy New Year. Although that's a lie because we're recording this in 2024. But by the time our listeners hear this, it will be 2025. How are you spending the last dregs of this mushy year? Dennis?

[Dennis Scully]

Bracing myself for the year ahead is what I'm doing, Fred.

[Fred Nicholas]

I, too listeners may know that I'm in the middle of a move. And I have to say, nothing fills me with more respect for the interior design profession than trying to set up a new apartment myself. Friends often ask me for advice. They're like, you WR interior design, you must be good at that. I'm like, no, I am not. I know about design, distribution, deals, actually putting it together, an apartment. I am as clueless as the most clueless client our listeners have ever dealt with. So I'm in the middle of that, middle of that chaos. Is your holiday shaping up nicely? I know you have some in laws in town.

[Dennis Scully]

In laws in town. And we're going to have a full table and it's going to be going to be quite fun and festive. I'm really looking forward to it.

[Fred Nicholas]

All right, well, you'll be looking backwards to it by the time, by the time our listeners are.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Dennis Scully]

I'm so confused about time and space and where we are right now. But it will all have happened by the time this comes out, so I'm sure it was great. In the meantime, Fred, should we explain to people what we're doing on this show today?

[Fred Nicholas]

We just can't stop talking. And we thought. No, we thought it would be really fun to do a predictions episode where we look forward to 2025. But we actually have been doing a lot of talking and we thought it would be nice to tap the Thursday show Brain Trust to get some predictions from around the industry. So we've rounded up guests from the podcast this year, give their thoughts on what they think will happen in 2025, what they're going to be looking out for in their own businesses. We got a real murderer's row of talent here. We've got Amber Lewis who's going to offer some thoughts. Lee Mayer of Havenly, Alexa Hampton, Alex Shuford. There are some Surprise guests. It's a really fun roster of people. We've compiled them all and we're going to play their predictions shortly. I'm excited.

[Dennis Scully]

I'm excited too. And I'm incredibly grateful to everyone that we reached out to who very sweetly said, sure, I'll send in prediction for your show. Shall we get one last prediction from each of us before we go, Fred?

[Fred Nicholas]

We should. And I want to just say a special thank you to the person who recorded their prediction at Newark Airport. There was, you know, we have a little, you know, when they send in the audio file Apple puts in the location of the recording. And I was like, oh, this person, this person really did us a favor here and snuck it in in between flights. But yes, let's sneak in one last prediction. I'm going to. I'm going to call brown cooked. I think Pantone calling mocha mousse. The color of the year is a sign that brown is washed. It's time to move on. I think RH is going to make their new big brand extension RH color. I think designers have already known that it's time for color, but I think that retailers and the broader design community is going to get in on it. So that's my big prediction. My second, smaller, nerdier prediction is I think we're going to hear from material bank in 2025. It's feel like they've been a little bit quiet over the past year. They've raised so much money they gotta spend it on something. So I think we're gonna find out next year, I guess. First, what do you think of my bold, bold predictions, Dennis, but what's your prediction for 2025?

[Dennis Scully]

So unbelievably, and this was not in any way planned, Fred. Absolutely. One of my main predictions was in fact color. And I couldn't agree with you more. I think coming off of the conversations we had at the end of the year about colorful bathrooms, it was so clear to me that so many designers were dying to do more color. We always joke about ivory boucle or some of these neutrals just getting overthrown, and I think they really might this year. So I am very much in agreement with your bold prediction about color. I also agree with you about Material Bank. I think it's quite possible. I get the sense that something big is brewing over there and I hope we'll be able to talk about it in the very near future. My other also nerdy prediction was actually related to. You can't get much nerdier than this. The 10 year yield. So I think the 10 year yield on the treasury note is going to be something that we're going to be following much more closely than ever before because I think the Federal Reserve has indicated they're actually going to be lowering rates less in the coming year than we might have thought. And I actually think the bond market is going to play a much bigger role on what happens to mortgage rates and therefore housing. And I think it's going to be a very bumpy ride in 2025. And I see me referencing the 10 year yield a lot more in 2025.

[Fred Nicholas]

That's a prediction we know will come true.

[Dennis Scully]

Absolutely.

[Fred Nicholas]

I think you successfully captured the breadth of this show here from quiet luxury of the 10 year treasury yield as the third day show in a nutshell. Well, good predictions. Let's, let's, let's stop talking and let other people jump in with their own.

[Dennis Scully]

Exactly. Let's let everyone that we asked very nicely to share their predictions. Let's hear from them. And again, thank you to everyone who sent in their thoughts.

[Unknown]

Hi there, business of home. This is Alexa Hampton and I am the principal designer at Markhampton llc. My prediction for next year is that we will see performance fabrics become far more elaborate in their designs because let's face it, everybody wants performance fabrics inside their house as well as outside.

[David Netto]

Hi, my name's David Netto and my company's called David Netto Design. I think that next year we're going to see more young people interested in history and doing sort of historically based decorating with gothic things in it and great antiques because all the young people I talk to are fascinated by Madeleine Costang and zeffirelli and the 19th century. And I think that's going to keep going because they're smart.

[Unknown]

Bye.

[Amber Lewis]

Hey there. This is Amber Lewis and I'm the principal designer and founder of Amber Interior Design. Next year I'm calling on the human race. Yes, that's right, the entire human race. To revive the retail store, I'm making a bold prediction that our world will start to see the tangible value in keeping all of our Main street stores alive. E Com, of course, has its place for sure. But I hope people remember the importance of touching, feeling and experiencing in real life. I am personally a shopaholic, quite frankly, get off on a good afternoon outing or a reason to pop to the shops. Plus, there's nothing that helps me justify a purchase more than walking into a store, picking a gift with my hands and my eyes, or just sitting on a sofa to make sure it's cozy before I buy it. I just feel in a world that forces us to be tied to technology all the time, imagine if we lost retail. It would actually be a tragedy. Where would we go? Anyway, let's support and get lost a little in a sweet boutique or two. And that is my hope for the coming year and the years to come. Also, this is a shameless plug for my new store opening in Mono, California, January 2025. Okay, love you, Danny.

[Dennis Scully]

Bye.

[Amber Lewis]

Hi, this is Kira Hartnett from 22 Wallpaper and Textiles. My hope for the new year is that we will all focus on authenticity in the face of dupes and sameness and political extremism. I think that we will lean into being more and more ourselves, more authentic in our communications with our clients, our team members and the colleagues within our industry. I'm excited to see how that will manifest visually in design projects and surface pattern Design. Here's to 2025.

[David Netto]

Hello, this is Peter Dunham, interior and furnishings designer from Los Angeles in New York. My principal prediction for 2025 is that barring any other seismic shocks, the era of the deferred plan is over. People are either resigned to the higher interest rates and housing costs or simply can't wait to get on with their lives. In my little neighborhood alone, more listings came onto the market in the last quarter of 2024 than in the previous four years put together. And an increase in real estate transactions strongly predicts a dramatic upswing in the demand for home furnishings. And we're already seeing that in the last quarter at my showrooms, pivoting to my style predictions for the upcoming year. Maybe it's a reaction to the turmoil of the past few years or this almost unmanageable speed of new technology, but I'm seeing a strong swing away from the cold and slickness demanded by the ubiquitous McMansions and a renewed interest in the authentic and the handmade. I'm seeing a strong demand for crafts made products made from high quality woods and the inclusion of traditional crafts like wicker rush inlay and marquetry. Really a celebration of the hand woven and the handmade. I'm also seeing an increased ecological mindfulness and a sense of the security of the products that their furniture is made from. We're definitely seeing increased demand in painted denim, textiles and wallpapers for more texture, color and warmth. In short, more personality and the charm of the artisanal product. Wishing you all a Happy and Healthy 2025 and may my predictions come true.

[Lee Mayer]

I'm Lee Mayer. I'm the CEO of Haven Made Brands for 2025. I really don't like to prognosticate but I do have a lot of cautious optimism for next year. Mostly hopeful that we get back to a year of relative normalcy in home furnishings demand. I think we're all hoping for a declining interest rate environment, but I think also I'm hoping for a strong consumer, particularly as we get to the end of next year. Theoretically 30% of households are exposed to the stock market and the stock Olympics and then and many have seen their home values increase disproportionately. I'm hoping that the consumer is strong and continues to invest in both experiences that matter, particularly in their home. I think though, what's it being the first part of the year I think we'll continue to see a little bit of the tale of key cities that we've seen in our industry. You have companies going out of business, we're showing double digit year over year decline. And then on the other hand you have other companies that continue to sort of grow, steal market share and make inroads into the consumers mindshare. Regardless of what happens next year, I hope everyone has a happy holiday and a happy new year.

[Satya Atiwari]

Hi, this is Satya Atiwari, CEO of Surya Inc. In 2025 I'm feeling optimistic about the opportunities ahead. 2024 was a tough year for the home furnishings industry, but it gave us the chance to focus and get ready for what's next. At Surya Inc. We have been working hard to strengthen our brands, Surya Global Views and Mitchell Gold plus Bob Williams and invest in what matters most, great products and great service for our customers. With inflation easing and consumer confidence improving, we see a better environment ahead. Even as trends in housing and supply chains continue to shift, we are ready to meet the challenges and make the most of the opportunities. Here's to a strong and exciting 2025. Thank you.

[Unknown]

Hi, this is Jonathan Miller from Miller Samuel Real Estate Appraisers based in New York. And here are some thoughts on the 2025 housing market. We have been seeing a year over year surge in contracts here in the city despite the fact that mortgage rates are stuck at a higher level than was thought to be just a couple months ago. It does look like 2025 is going to be we anticipate more sales activity not because of lower rates. Consumers, those on the fence about purchasing have been waiting for mortgage rates to come down for two and a half to three years now since the Fed pivoted in early 22. Patience has worn thin. We're already seeing expansion of sales, as I mentioned earlier, and we're also seeing a slight increase in listing inventory, which means that both buyers and sellers, their resolve is weakening to wait until rates come down. So we're anticipating more activity, possibly favoring the higher end of the market. As the financial markets are strong, that has enabled at the high end a bypass to mortgage rates being somewhat elevated. So look for 2025 to be more activity, likely higher, somewhat higher housing prices and certainly interesting.

[Jonathan Miller]

Hi, this is Bo Stump from Stump and company. In 2025, I think the business performance is going to continue to improve and M and A activity is going to pick up. We're already seeing this in the home furnishings industry with Dunes Point Capital's recent acquisition of Kravit. We expect several more exciting deals like this to be announced in the broader home and commercial furnishings industry. Also, with the political transition coming up just a month away, we'll be paying close attention for any changes in the US Government policies, whether tax changes, tariffs, adjustments to our immigration system, interest rates and much more. All in all, we're optimistic 2025 will be a return to form for the furniture industry and we're confident it'll be a great year for M and A deals. Hello everybody. This is Alex Shuford, CEO of the Rockhouse Brands. We are generally optimistic about 2025. We think it will be a year of growth for us and hopefully for the industry. We think the Fed will continue to lower rates, maybe not consistently, but steadily over the year. And we think there's a lot of pent up demand in the housing market that is ready to be released. So my best to everybody for a great 2025 and happy new Year's to you all.

[Alex Shuford]

Happy New Year, Dennis. And business of Home, it's Josh Weiner, the CEO and founder of Silver Lining. Our firm is excited for what's to come in 2025. We've got great active projects in the Hamptons, Los Angeles, New York City, and now we're in Miami. All these markets we see our clients concerned with wellness and crafting their living spaces with amenities more closely resembling a spa. They're also very inspired by yacht design, which is an interesting way to deal with an apartment. Silver Lining's recent expansion to Miami has also been a learning experience. We see immense potential in Florida for 2025. So it'll be a good year and we're excited about it.

[Unknown]

I'm Heidi Callier. I am the principal of Heidi Kellier Design. I am feeling optimistic about next year. The past few years have felt really chaotic and unsure, and I think that 2025 is going to have an optimistic feel to it. The projects that we're currently working on and the ones that we are slated to start in the new year all have positive feel and vibe to them, and people are excited, and there's an exuberance about design that I haven't seen in a while. I think that homeowners are looking for warm, layered, and really personalized spaces now. Everyone is traveling a lot, and they want to see their homes reflect the lifestyle that they're living, and they want them to reflect the families and people that they are. There's a renewed attention to details and rooms that feel comfortable and inspirational, and I personally find that really inspiring. I would say that clients are feeling excited again about their homes, about the whole design process, and they really are wanting to participate in that. And I see that continuing. And they're feeling really excited about individual, special pieces that are unique to them and their homes and feel really reflective of their lives. Personally, I'm feeling really optimistic as well. We had a great year in 2024, and I'm really excited about what's coming in 2025. We continue to work on projects all over the country, and I feel excited every time we get to start something new. We have some exciting product moments launching in 2025, which is new for us. And on a personal front and professional front, I'm really thrilled to be moving back to San Francisco with my family, and I will also be relocating my studio there next summer.

[Dennis Scully]

And we're back. All right, that's it for predictions. Seems like we're. Seems like many people think we're in for a great year. Fred, did any predictions jump out at you?

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, I did like all the positive predictions. Those are always a good way to start off the new year. One little moment that actually jumped out to me was Heidi Callier's prediction, where she was talking about how a lot of her clients have been traveling. You know, this is, of course, the bane of the home industry's existence, is that people have spent the last two or three years traveling instead of spending on their homes. But what that means is you have all these clients who have been spending so much time out in the world seeing interesting things. They want to bring it back to their home. Maybe that ties in nicely with your prediction or our prediction about the return of color. So maybe that's going to be sort of the, you know, the downstream effect of all this travel is that people's homes are going to get a little more global, a little more interesting, a little more unique. I thought that was really interesting. Smart take from Heidi. What jumped out to you?

[Dennis Scully]

I was struck by what Kira Hartnett from 22 had to say about authenticity. And again, I think this ties in. It's all going to tie back to color. I think. I do think that people are longing to be more true to themselves and, and express that more through their homes. You and I were talking recently on a show that maybe the color story is, in part, people not thinking as much about resale and not thinking about having to worry about what other people are going to think, and maybe that we're going to see more of that and it could be a powerful driver in the design world next year.

[Fred Nicholas]

So.

[Dennis Scully]

So I thought that was interesting and I think it all sort of fits together somehow.

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah. I mean, I think authenticity is obviously a good idea in any age, but especially in an era where there's just so much digital manipulation, so much AI wizardry, focusing on what really matters to you and delivering something that's real and true to yourself is obviously more and more valuable. So I think everyone that focuses on that is going to do well in 2025. I know most of our guests certainly do, and I know, Dennis, you and I strive to be authentic. So hopefully we too will thrive in 2025.

[Dennis Scully]

I definitely try and bring my authentic self to the Thursday show. Fred, for better or for worse, perhaps. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us [e-mail] if you want to get in touch with the show, write to [e-mail] this episode was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.