Business of Home Podcast: The Thursday Show – February 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of The Thursday Show, hosted by Dennis Scully, takes an in-depth look at a series of headline-making stories in the interior design industry. The main theme is Havenly’s acquisition of The Expert—a deal that's shaking up the design services and trade platform space. Additional coverage includes the rise of luxury home security, Williams Sonoma’s AI partnership with OpenAI, another key acquisition in contract furniture, and the shifting business landscape for design professionals. The episode features an extended interview with Havenly CEO Lee Mayer about strategy, integration, market pressures, and the future of trade platforms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap of Previous Episode and Discussion about Charging Models for Designers

• [01:04–03:05] The hosts reflect on a masterclass conversation with industry lawyer Seth Kaplowitz, particularly on the perennial debate about how designers should charge for services.
• Seth boldly claims there is a "right" way to charge, making a confident, data-driven case.

  “Seth just like, no, I know the answer. This is the answer. This is right.” – Fred Nikolaus [01:50]

• Optionality (the idea that being on certain industry lists provides choices, if not guaranteed revenue) surfaces as a recurring theme.

2. Industry News: Havenly Acquires The Expert

• [04:52–13:43]
• Background: The Expert was founded in 2021 by Jake Arnold and Leo Siegel to connect clients with high-end designers for video consultations, growing into a curated trade marketplace with elite brand partnerships.
• Business Challenge: The original high-touch model hit scale limits; pressure from venture capitalists demanded new revenue streams, prompting expansion into e-commerce and now, acquisition.
• Industry Reaction: There’s chatter about whether the acquisition will dilute The Expert's high-end appeal, with risks if notable designers leave.

  “If you don't have all these high end designers there, I think some of the magic goes away.” – Fred Nikolaus [10:15]

• Strategic Fit: Havenly and The Expert, though starting with different clientele and models (mass vs. prestige), converged toward B2B and product-driven offerings.
• Integration Hurdles: Seamless tech and operations integration is critical, notably for procurement and project management tools.

3. Acquisition of Heller by Haworth

• [13:43–18:53]
• Haworth, a big player in contract furniture, acquires Heller and its founder, John Edelman, who takes on a senior role over North and South America.
• The move is seen as an effort to coordinate numerous Italian luxury brands and win more trade business.

  “I see this partially as a message that Hayworth has decided they need to go after more trade business with all these brands.” – Dennis Scully [16:40]

4. AI in the Design Industry: Williams Sonoma and OpenAI

• [19:31–25:33]
• Williams Sonoma becomes an early advertiser in OpenAI’s pilot ChatGPT ad program, signaling a marketing shift as conversational AI grows in influence.
• Industry anxiety centers on privacy, the intimacy of AI interactions, and mistrust of ad-driven models (“last resort” for OpenAI), recalling the arc of Facebook’s ad adoption.
• The importance of “AEO” (answer engine optimization) is discussed, with brands and designers racing to master positioning for AI-driven search optimization.

  “People now are moving on to see that the next thing is called AEO or at least it's called that for now. Who knows what it'll be called next week, but answer engine optimization.” – Fred Nikolaus [23:35]

5. The Uber-Affluent and the Home Security Boom

• [25:33–30:15]
• Citing a Wall Street Journal report, the hosts note a surge in luxury home buyers seeking “military grade” security—safe rooms, biometrics, smart glass, etc.
• Privacy and safety are so vital that designers face challenges documenting and photographing projects.

  “45% of luxury homes sold in 2025... the listing includes a reference to privacy or security.” – Fred Nikolaus [26:15]

• Professionals now contend with NDA layers and design decisions impacted by security specifications.

6. Interview with Havenly CEO Lee Mayer

• [31:55–63:15]
• Lee Mayer shares candid insights into Havenly’s acquisition strategy, the rationale for The Expert deal, and what it means for designers and clients.

Havenly’s Expansion and Portfolio

• Overview of Havenly’s growth from digital e-design service to a family of revived brands: Interior Define, The Citizenry, St. Frank, and now The Expert.

  “Along the way, we started to look at these beloved brands that were in the marketplace... trying to bring them back to life underneath new leadership.” – Lee Mayer [32:39]

What is The Expert & Why Acquire It?

• Describes The Expert’s highly curated network and its value for both designers (as a revenue/lead source) and clients (access to top names).
• The acquisition is not about scaling up revenues or massively expanding the consultation model, but about leveraging The Expert’s prestige and bringing robust back-end technology.

  “We didn't buy this for... revenue reasons. It was much more of a strategic sort of asset for us.” – Lee Mayer [33:44]

Why Now? Market Forces & Synergies

• Industry context: It’s becoming tough for sub–$100 million businesses to exist independently given compressed market valuations, rising overhead, and the retreat of private capital from home/DTC.

  “To be a smaller business right now is just harder... we’re finding, overall, a lot of interest in combining forces.” – Lee Mayer [39:56]

• Details on structure: Many deals are now equity-based, not cash, to align interests and allow for long-term upside as markets (hopefully) recover.

What Will Change for The Expert’s Designers?

• Very little, by design. Focused on preserving exclusivity and appeal, while offering new tools—3D rendering, procurement, project management—to designers if they want them.

  “We don't anticipate changing anything except for things that maybe you would choose to use over time as we develop.” – Lee Mayer [47:59]

AI, Trade Tools, and the Human Touch

• Lee discusses how AI is raising existential questions but also offers big opportunities in design ops, visualization, sourcing, and project management.
• “Magic” in design is human creativity, and Havenly wants to empower (not replace) it with tech.

  “What it really highlights though is the specialness of the human designer. I kind of hate the idea of AI taking over interior design.” – Lee Mayer [49:19]

Can Design Be Democratized Further?

• Data shows that some DIY clients “upgrade” to designer services when prompted, and expanding intermediate options (like consultations) could bring more clients into the fold.

  “Sometimes people just need to learn a little bit about design... then they realize they do want expert guidance.” – Lee Mayer [54:02]

Will Everything Move Online?

• Mayer advocates for a “hybrid” future; both retail and digital channels are important and serve different needs depending on generational preference and project type.

  “People are pretty complex and they want to interact in multiple ways.... It's not one or the other. This isn't like the death of anything.” – Lee Mayer [57:05]

Future of Havenly: IPO? More Acquisitions?

• The company is big but not (yet) at IPO scale; public markets are more receptive to their business model than private investors right now. Havenly is open to future deals, but the bar is higher.

  “We're big, so it's like, hard to get acquired. Like, no one seems to want to buy us.... If something great comes along, we'll always take a look at it. But the bar has gotten a lot higher for us too.” – Lee Mayer [59:32]

• “I thought I'd get acquired by now, but like, I haven't. So I just started doing the acquiring.” – Lee Mayer [62:23]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If you don't have all these high end designers [on The Expert], I think some of the magic goes away.” – Fred Nikolaus [10:15]
• “It's a tough road to hoe... Every time someone tries to disrupt the trade, it kills anyone who comes near it like the Russian winter.” – Dennis Scully [12:15]
• “We’re, by the way, they’ve done a very good job of keeping the folks that are available for consult very tight. We’re going to continue that.” – Lee Mayer [34:19]
• “I kind of hate the idea of AI taking over interior design. Honestly, sorry, ChatGPT. I want to embrace this community because... the magic of a specific designer is so important.” – Lee Mayer [49:19]
• “You can’t replace a sofa with AI.” – Lee Mayer [45:40]
• “As you think about the expert, it's like, I do believe technology can make an interior designer's life a lot easier... But I think the reality is you can still do a lot of the things that you used to do the way you used to do them, while taking advantage of all the things that make your life easier.” – Lee Mayer [57:15]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:04] Revisiting charging models for designers & Monday’s episode recap
• [04:52] News rundown begins: Havenly acquires The Expert
• [13:43] Haworth/Heller/John Edelman acquisition
• [19:31] Williams Sonoma & OpenAI ad pilot (AI search trends)
• [25:33] The ultra-wealthy and home security boom
• [31:55] Interview: Lee Mayer, CEO of Havenly – The Expert deal, strategy, AI & the future
• [63:21] End notes: "What caught our eye," email shoutouts, hot takes, and Fed minutes

Additional Memorable Moments

• [09:53–10:00] The hosts joke about a hypothetical Gary Friedman (RH) acquisition turning into “the longest Thursday Show ever.”
• [14:45] “No more walks on the beach for John Edelman… he’s putting the uniform back on.”
• [26:15] Casino-grade cameras, bulletproof glass, and “James Bondian” features now common in luxury homes.
• [54:02] Lee Mayer outlines how Havenly converts DIY customers to design clients, showing that “taste-testing” design services grows the market.

Tone and Style

True to Business of Home’s signature approach, the episode blends expert industry analysis, candid insider banter, and playful asides. The tone is conversational but deeply informed, mixing skepticism (on tech "revolutions"), realism (about market headwinds), and a dose of optimism about the evolving design business.

For Further Exploration

• Industry implications of the blurring lines between design consultation, trade platforms, and e-commerce
• AI’s growing role in search and design operations
• The increased demand for privacy and security in luxury residential design
• Market consolidation: why scale is now a necessity

This summary distills the core themes and must-know details for those following the business of design, offering a comprehensive overview of an episode full of news, strategy, and sharp commentary.