Business of Home Podcast: The Thursday Show

Episode Title: Why Veranda is bringing back nighttime photography. Plus: Dupe.com and Williams-Sonoma settle their lawsuit
Host: Dennis Scully
Guests: Fred Nikolaus, Steel Marcoux, Shaun Yashar
Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores major developments in the interior design industry, focusing on the return of nighttime photography in design magazines—spearheaded by Veranda—and the cultural significance behind it. The show opens with industry news, covering the settlement between Dupe.com and Williams Sonoma, retail earnings (Williams Sonoma, Home Depot, Lowe’s), and the launch of Arcade, a new AI-driven home goods platform. The highlight is a rich discussion with Veranda’s editor-in-chief, Steel Marcoux, and brand consultant Shaun Yashar about the aesthetics, history, and meaning of nighttime photography in design media.

Key Sections & Insights

1. Industry News Roundup

(04:30–20:56)

Dupe.com and Williams Sonoma Settlement

• Background: Dupe.com, a site for finding lookalike (or “duped”) home products at lower prices, was sued by Williams Sonoma for using their brands disparagingly in viral marketing.
• Settlement Outcome: The lawsuit did not go to trial; terms are not public, but Dupe.com has since reduced its focus on Williams Sonoma brands in marketing.
• Cultural Shift: Dupes are now widely accepted. As Fred puts it, “Whoever has been arguing that dupes should be taboo or we should look down our nose at dupes...that conversation almost feels like a settled matter and we have to move on to the battlefield for originality on a different front, because dupes appear to have won.” (08:13 - Fred Nikolaus)
• Originality Concerns: Both agree the normalization of dupes signals long-term risks for designers and original makers.

Retail Earnings – Williams Sonoma, Home Depot, Lowe’s

• Williams Sonoma:
  • Strong Q3 with rising profits and sales (sales: $1.88B).
  • Stock softened due to warnings about future tariffs and supply chain challenges.
  • CEO Laura Alber praised for “pull[ing] every lever available to keep costs down, to find efficiencies, to bring AI into the operation.” (12:11 - Dennis Scully)
  • Discussion of the company aiming to climb further up the “luxury mountain” (14:59).
• Home Depot & Lowe’s:
  • Both faced soft quarters; declining home sales, fewer natural disasters impacting seasonal sales.
  • Lowe’s better positioned due to expansion into the contractor segment (18:19).
  • General pessimism about quick recovery in home retail until interest rates/tariffs stabilize.

Arcade: The AI-Generated Home Goods Platform

• Description: Users create custom designs (rugs, bedding, lighting, etc.) using AI which are then physically made by real makers. Arcade pays royalties to original designers whose work trains its model.
• Industry Reaction: Divided; some are skeptical about “AI slop”, others, like host Dennis, see promise in paying makers for their intellectual property.
• Key Quote: “I went into this with some skepticism...but after talking to Mariam [Nufisi, founder], I’m convinced that she wants to create a system that pays artisans and makers for their products and pays people for their IP. I think that’s really commendable.” (25:44 – Fred Nikolaus)

2. Should a Hotel Feel Like a Home? – Design Discussion

(26:56–31:37)

• Rita Konieg’s ELLE Decor Column: Argues against unnecessary furniture, boring color schemes, and TVs in hotel rooms, raising the question of how home-like hotels should be.
• Industry Take: Economic imperatives often prevent the warm, thoughtful design idealized in residential settings. Lighting and other practical home comforts (e.g., kettles, fridges) often overlooked in hospitality.
• Memorable Moment: “I'm amazed that we still haven't cracked the code on good hotel lighting when that seems so basic and everybody talks about that.” (29:38 - Dennis Scully)

3. FEATURE: The Return of Nighttime Photography in Veranda

(33:11–67:08)

Why Did Nighttime Photography Disappear?

• Historical Context: Nighttime photography was prevalent in design magazines of the ‘70s–mid-90s. At the turn of the millennium, the industry shifted toward the “endless summer” look: bright, evenly lit, day-lit interiors.
• Cultural Coding:
  • “At some point as we were getting to, you know, at the precipice of the millennium, there was a shift away from nighttime photography...a new administration that wanted to differentiate...in a way, like revolt against a certain type of art direction.” (35:03 - Shaun Yashar)
  • Nighttime shots became coded as “out of fashion” or even “bad taste.”

What Was Lost—and Why Bring It Back?

• Shaun Yashar:
  • “Interior design has always been about the art of vibing...the evening hours are a vibe...not telling the story accurately is really what is lost.” (37:37)
  • Many homes are designed to be dramatic and welcoming at night; daylight-only imagery flattens the narrative.
• Steel Marcoux:
  • Inspired by nostalgia and new awareness post-pandemic of how homes change throughout the day/night.
  • Influence of David Netto on designing “night rooms.”
  • Veranda’s editorial team passionate about exploring projects in different lighting conditions.

Execution in Veranda’s Issue

• Shooting Approaches: Used both day and night shots in some projects. The Richard Keith Langham project was intentionally shot mostly at night, with some internal anxiety from the creative director (“Are you kidding me? We're gonna shoot this room in the dark, like, with the lights on?” – 41:14).
• Feedback: Team and advertisers were enthusiastic, but some readers missed a holiday issue and questioned the thematic swap.

The Technical Angle: Lost Skills and New Challenges

• Digital vs. Film: The switch to digital and the loss of incandescent lighting made evening photography harder. LED bulbs’ variable color temperature complicated things.
• Perfectionism: Digital enabled “no shadows, everything being even” – but now designers, editors, and readers hunger for mood, imperfection, and storytelling.

Industry Collaboration & the Role of Stylists

• Changing Culture:
  • Increased involvement by editors, stylists, designers; collaborative shoots can lead to generic imagery (“a camel is a horse designed by committee” – 55:27).
  • “Who's the artist of the photograph? ...Now you can send every single image back to the home office...and that is a quick way to kill any sort of spontaneity on a photo set, which obviously light plays such a role in.” (56:44 - Marcoux/Yashar)
• Stylist Shortage: “I actually believe that we're at a deficit of stylists.” (60:06 - Yashar)
• New Considerations: Magazines now think intentionally about when and how to shoot a space, integrating nighttime and special lighting as part of their artistic process (65:35).

Notable Quotes

• “Every story can't be variations on the theme of endless summer...we should be able to work with the biggest toolbox of tools...that’s what’s missing.”** (37:37 - Shaun Yashar)
• “All great designers design certain rooms to be enjoyed in the evening hours.” (38:58 - Steel Marcoux)
• “Shoot a project during the day, shoot it in the evening. If it calls for it... Shoot it for documentation where you will have the fabric at the exact color, because maybe there's a reason why you need that. But this idea of cramming it all in...it won't work.” (57:24 - Shaun Yashar)
• “Nostalgia and novelty—when you've got both, you've sort of hit on something pretty fun.” (63:39 - Steel Marcoux)

Industry Takeaways

• The return of nighttime photography reflects both a longing for glamour and a more honest depiction of how spaces are used.
• Veranda’s experiment is resonating with both industry veterans and a new generation of readers.
• There’s value (and renewed interest) in embracing imperfection, atmosphere, and storytelling over “perfect” daylight-illuminated rooms.

4. Industry Updates & Shout-Outs

(68:08–end)

• Hearst Layoffs: Editorial cuts at House Beautiful and Elle Decor, signaling industry challenges.
• Upcoming Events: Dennis Scully to host design talks at the NY School of Interior Design in December.
• First Dibs Updates: Stock rises; AI pricing tool being reconsidered following user feedback.

Conclusion

This episode interweaves urgent industry news, deep dives into cultural and aesthetic shifts in design media (especially the symbolism of night-time interiors), and thoughtful reflection on the role of storytelling in interiors publishing. The discussion about returning to nighttime photography is both nostalgic and forward-looking—signaling a possible new era for how design is communicated in print and online.

Notable Timestamps

• Dupe.com Settlement: 04:30–10:43
• Williams Sonoma Earnings & AI: 11:07–14:46
• Home Depot & Lowe’s Segment: 16:32–19:37
• Arcade AI Home Goods Launch: 20:08–26:56
• Hotel vs. Home Design Debate: 26:56–31:37
• Nighttime Photography Feature: 33:11–67:08
• Industry Shoutouts & Closings: 68:08–end

Final Words

Nighttime photography’s comeback isn’t just about aesthetics—it’s about reintroducing mood, narrative, and honesty into how homes are represented. Veranda’s leap into the “evening magic” is already influencing not just readers, but the way design teams, stylists, and editors approach their craft. The conversation also underscores ongoing tensions around originality, technology’s impact on design, and the importance of respecting each practitioner’s creative role.

"There are no mistakes. There are only opportunities."
— Shaun Yashar (44:40)

This summary was compiled to provide a detailed, engaging account of the November 20, 2025 episode for those who want to understand both the news and the deeper currents shaping the design industry.