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Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: Will the Supreme Court undo Trump's tariffs? Plus: The evolution of Maiden Home
01:08:48
Host Dennis Scully and BOH executive editor Fred Nicolaus discuss the biggest news in the design world. Later, Maiden Home founder Nidhi Kapur joins the show to talk about the evolution of her brand.
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- [00:07]
A
This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully and welcome to the Thursday show. Later on, I'll be speaking with founder Nidhi Kapoor about the reinvention of maiden home. But first we're going to catch up on the news, including the latest on tariffs, Charles Cohen's loss of another design center, and whether homes should have names. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Homes executive editor Fred Nicholas. Hi, Fred.
- [00:33]
B
Hola, Denis.
- [00:35]
A
Welcome back.
- [00:37]
B
I was in Spain. I was in Spain for only a week and you guys are causing all this controversy. You and Caitlin are tearing down the Togo sofa.
- [00:45]
A
Poor Togo. You weren't here to defend it.
- [00:47]
B
I know. My beloved Togo that I can't get out of because I got a bad back.
- [00:53]
A
The point we were making.
- [00:54]
B
There you go. Exactly, exactly. No, it was great to listen to the show without having to produce it. So you guys did a bang up job. I enjoyed it while I was eating pounds and pounds of jamon in Spain.
- [01:06]
A
Can only imagine what a good time you were having. I can't wait to hear all about it. Tell us.
- [01:11]
B
Well, yes, so I was. Last week I was the guest of the Design. Do people know what the Design Leadership Network is?
- [01:16]
A
I'm tell them. I'll explain it. Why not?
- [01:18]
B
I'll break it down. So it's an organization that combines very high end designers and the brands that sell, basically all the people we talk to here on the show into one organization and they have educational programming and stuff like that. And every year they have a big summit where they all go to an exotic locale such as Madrid, which is this year's summit, and have a bunch of programming and do a lot of schmoozing and eat a lot of really good meals. So I was along for the ride and it was a great time. You get a bunch of designers and great people from brands. You put them in great Spanish restaurants. It's going to be a fun time. It was a fun time, but it was cool. It's like in the back of the bus with Paul Goldberger, this acclaimed architecture critic. And you're at this palace and Jamie Drake is explaining, well, this is why they did the upholstery that way in the 19th century. And so they bring together a good group of people. And I was there to annoy everyone about RH's stock price. So it was a fun trip.
- [02:19]
A
Was there any hot, gossipy conversation going on? What was the topic du jour in Madrid?
- [02:25]
B
I don't think I officially said that everything would be off the record, but I'm going to honor it. There was some gossip. There always is. I mean, just like, top line. I think people were all ready to do something new with their business. I know that sounds a little vague, but I think there's just this last year has been defined by so much ups and downs and confusion over tariffs and where is the economy going and what's up with the government and all this. And I think that people are a little over it. And there were so many people who were like, okay, well, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to Paris and expand there, or, well, I got a new project here, and I'm excited about that, or I'm gonna try and move into product and get out of client work. So there was a lot of, you know, like, new moves were kind of on people's minds. And I'm sure that some of that gossip will turn into news on businessofhome.com in the near future. For now, that's all I'll say. But it was a great time. How about you? You've been out and about.
- [03:15]
A
Great. Well, I'm so glad that you had a good time. We missed you terribly. But Caitlin and I had a pretty good time while you were gone on the Thursday show, as you heard. And I want to thank her again for stepping in. It was great.
- [03:29]
C
Sure.
- [03:30]
A
You were off in Madrid, and I'm at the Javits Center. Right. I mean, are those equally glamorous? I'm not sure.
- [03:36]
B
How's the gazpacho at the Jacket Center?
- [03:39]
A
But I do have to say, bdny. I was there on Sunday for most of the day, and a hoppin show. You see a lot of people. People in pretty good spirits. There was actually quite a lot of drinking going on, which might have been part of it, but also, people just seemed to be. It was a really crowded and upbeat show. I know you went on Monday. What was your take?
- [04:02]
B
I did. I did. It was definitely like, everywhere I went, people were like, oh, did you see Dennis? He. You missed him. Ships in the night. But, yeah, the energy, the floor was popping. It was really even on Monday, towards the end of the day, which is normally when the show kind of winds down. I mean, we should say this is the boutique New York design show, kind of like the hospitality contract commercial show. But a lot of the vendors from our world, like Four Hands and Philip Jeffries, they all show there, so you get a sense of the health of the overall market. And people were, again, surprisingly positive. A lot of them you know, we're like, you know, actually like, there is a lot of business going on right now. Everyone was in good spirits. There was a lot. There was more new product than I thought there would be. Lots of good conversations. It was a party.
- [04:46]
A
Exactly. It was a party. And I couldn't tell if, because it was a hospitality show, everybody felt they needed some element of hospitality that they were sharing. But it definitely, it definitely seemed much more upbeat than some, than some recent shows. And I had interesting conversations with people about whether this show has become the show that people should be keeping an eye on. And with so many people trying to get into contract, trying to get into hospitality and maybe some of these other hospitality shows and even icff, I don't know, people were saying this seemed to have a lot more energy. So I think ICFF and maybe some other shows are going to have to take some lessons from BDNY and maybe step up their game a little bit. We'll see.
- [05:33]
B
Stirring the pot there, Scully. Trying to get a little rivalry going.
- [05:37]
A
Well, there's another show coming to the Javits center soon. I'm just saying.
- [05:40]
B
We'll see. No, I actually heard similar things and it did seem like there were several brands that we follow who were either showing for the first time or really releasing a hospitality or contract oriented collection for the first time. That seems to be a move that a lot of people are making and it seems to be one that at least for now, is working. So good times at the Javits Center. Let's quickly look back on Monday's episode, a conversation with Martin F. And really interesting entrepreneur in the design industry. First, he brought back Farrow and Ball from the brink of oblivion. Saved them at a very difficult time in that brand's life. And then when he was done with that, he started for Moy with his partner. He's seen a lot, done a lot. Very interesting conversation. What was your takeaway, Dennis?
- [06:23]
A
It was such a pleasure to get to spend time with him. And we had multiple conversations leading up to this interview which were incredibly enjoyable, as you say. So a schoolhouse chum, Tom Helm, and he go in to look at this little tiny paint company back in the day that had kind of fallen on hard times. And sure enough, it's Farrow and Ball. And I think it's no exaggeration that Faro and Ball wouldn't be here today were it not for Martin and Tom stepping in and saving it and then building it up, selling it off and doing well for themselves and then taking a little time away. And finally getting the itch and wanting to jump into the fabric business. And you know how I feel about people thinking there's white space in the fabric business. But they certainly thought that a vertically integrated business would be the way to crack the code there. And it seems like they're doing quite well. Fermoy is a very popular brand. A lot of people wanted me to talk to them and now they've got wallpaper as well. So they seem to be doing quite well. It's a really fun conversation and many people have written to me saying how much they enjoyed it. So if you haven't had a chance to listen, I hope that you enjoy it. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll get into the news. This podcast is sponsored by Renewal by Andersen. Hey designers, here's a quick tip before we dive in. If you're juggling client projects that include replacing windows and doors, you need to know about Renewal by Andersen's interior designer loyalty program. It's a game changer. They take care of the window and door replacement side so you don't have to. You'll get trade discounts, exclusive rewards, and a team that truly knows what they're doing. Enjoy having a trusted expert who makes your projects run smoother. Apply today at renewalbyandersondesigner.com Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by Eichultz, the European luxury designer brand with globally inspired appeal. Discover their whole home offerings across furniture, lighting, decorative accessories and outdoor Eicolts makes it easy to create timeless interiors with in stock pieces shipping in one to two weeks from its North Carolina warehouse. Plus a customizable upholstery program delivering bespoke pieces in just four to six weeks to anywhere in the US Explore new introductions, unlock competitive trade benefits and find your local store@icolts.com that's E I C H-O-L-T Z.com and we're back. Fred, in honor of your return, we're kicking it off with tariffs.
- [09:14]
B
Everyone got a break last week, but now it's time to time to take your medicine and but there actually there has been big news on the tariff front. They went before the Supreme Court last week and surprise, surprise, the justices seemed a little skeptical. Now we're going to play a clip. This is not the typical Thursday show clip. This is not a Lily Allen song, so bear with us for a little bit of legal minutia. But I think you'll get the gist of it from the tone of the.
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A
Conversation Mike McGoldrick and board of Trustees.
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D
Sauer, can I just ask you a question? Can you point to any other place in the code or any other time in history where that phrase together regulate importation has been used to confer tariff imposing authority as to regulate importation?
- [09:55]
B
That was held in twill, so obviously, and that's okay.
- [09:58]
D
Okay, so an intermediate appellate court held it in twea, but you just told Justice Kavanaugh that wasn't your lead argument, that your lead argument was this long history of the phrase regulate importation being understood to include tariff authorities. So my question is, has there ever been another instance in which a statute has conferred, used that language to confer the power? Well, putting aside Yoshida, I think our.
- [10:18]
B
Argument goes a bit further than that as interpretive matter, because if you look.
- [10:22]
A
At that history, the history of delegates. Could you just answer the Justice's question? Just answer the question, buddy.
- [10:31]
B
Exactly. Just the facts, sir. Yeah. So that rather long clip was surprising. That was Amy Coney Barrett, one of the conservative justices. Now, the conservative justices are generally side with the Trump administration, but here she was really grilling the government's lawyer, saying, is there any precedent to say that the President has the authority to impose these sweeping tariffs? And at the end, Sonia Sotomayor came in and again, just answer her question, for God's sakes. So they were very skeptical of the government's argument that the President has this sweeping power over tariffs. What did you make of that, Dennis?
- [11:07]
A
It was really striking because heretofore they have been giving a pretty wide berth to executive power. And so it was really interesting to hear so many of them all at once, kind of in rapid succession, really come out and say this seems like a huge overstate and definitely left everybody feeling, wow, this really might get undone, don't you think?
- [11:32]
B
Yeah, exactly. I mean, there are these things called prediction markets where people make bets on various things happening or not happening. And all of the markets are now saying that there's only a 25% chance that the Supreme Court won't undo Trump's tariff. So the tone, we don't really know what'll happen, and we won't know for at least a few more weeks, maybe a few more months, what they decide. But the tone of the conversation, which is kind of all we have to go on, really suggested that the Supreme Court may undo these tariffs. And specifically here we're talking about all the tariffs on countries, so like 50% on China, 20% on Vietnam, all made under this thing called IPA. So those may Be no more. And it's kind of fascinating because there's been a little bit of news over the past couple weeks. The US And China have the outline of a trade deal. Those tariffs came down a little bit. There was the whole kerfuffle over this Canadian ad that had Reagan in it that went up a little bit. But to some degree, all of that doesn't matter because if the Supreme Court, you know, brings the gavel down and invalidates these tariffs, we're in. We're in a brave new world. I'm almost at a loss. Like, what do you. What do you think that looks like if that comes to pass?
- [12:40]
A
Well, well, exactly. And we've gotten so used to all of this. Right. And I feel like all of these companies have just been spending all of this time recalculating their margins, recalculating all of their costs. I just can't even imagine what happens if all of this gets undone and the speculation around, does money get returned or do people get refunds? I don't know. The administration has announced any number of initiatives that are tied to all of the tariff revenue.
- [13:16]
B
Our $2,000. Right. We're going to use that for a new podcast microphone they were going to use.
- [13:21]
A
Exactly. I was going to be spending that $2,000 in Paris in January. And now that might not be coming, but I mean, BO bonuses for the air traffic controllers and paying down the deficit, and any number of initiatives have been tied to all of this tariff money. And so the thought of the Supreme Court saying, nope, that actually needs to be rolled back, it's really sort of hard to imagine what that world looks like.
- [13:44]
B
The question that I think really must be fascinating for all the big furniture importing companies is what do you do if the tariffs come off? Do you lower your prices? Because all the people. There's been so much energy and effort around not raising prices, even as people have taken a hit on margin over the past six months. Once you lose that tariff, do you have to bring the prices down? Can you leave them where you were? How's your customer going to react? It's a very complicated psychological moment and a big decision these companies are going to have to make. If indeed this comes to pass, what do you think they'll do?
- [14:17]
A
Well, that's the big risk, I think. I think you're spot on. And I think the decision that companies make coming off of this, I almost feel as though if they don't somehow lower prices or make some kind of announcement. Right, right. I mean, because everyone has been raising Prices so dramatically. And when you talk to people and they say, oh, those prices are never coming down. Well, but really. But if these tariffs come off, you don't think that companies are gonna be forced to, particularly if any of this money or a large chunk of this money is somehow refunded. And then do people say, well, hey, I'd like some of that refund too.
- [14:57]
B
Right, Because I paid the money.
- [14:59]
A
Exactly.
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B
The customer paid more money. So, yeah, yeah.
- [15:02]
A
I mean, and I felt like when I was in High point, so many CEOs wanted to tell me how much money they'd been spending on tariffs. And they seem to have been incredibly flexible in their ability to somehow work it in. And again, we've talked about some companies use it as a line item and say, this is what it is. But many CEOs that I spoke to and even some company CEOs at BDNY said the same thing, that, nope, we've just got all new pricing, everything, whether it had a tariff or not. You know what, it just got a price increase because that was the quickest and most efficient way to do it. And so if this gets undone, I just can't see how you hold the line on those prices.
- [15:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a very big question for maybe a Thursday show down the line if this does happen. And we should be clear, we don't know that the Supreme Court indeed will rule this way. The other thing I just wanted to toss out there is I think this just completely validates the thesis of why companies don't invest in new manufacturing. You know what I mean? It's been six months. The tariffs have been in place for a long time. But everyone's been saying the landscape is so unpredictable, we can't plunk down a bunch of money on a new factory. This is why, because it's so unclear what's actually going to happen. If people are really going to bring back domestic manufacturing, it's going to take something a lot more stable, a lot more thought out and meticulous and with a longer time horizon, I hope the administration really invests in that. But this is not the.
- [16:27]
A
No, I think that's such a great point. And I think only if there was an understanding that there was a really long term plan being put in place, would you see that happen in a meaningful way. And you're quite right. This is a reminder that this is why people haven't shifted to all that great American manufacturing yet. So we'll keep talking about it, but I'm hoping for that $2,000 check. Regardless, Fred, that's where my money is. Moving on, we're going to talk about Charles Cohen. Fred, you broke the news this week that the Decorative Center Houston is no longer owned by Charles Cohen. What can you tell us?
- [17:04]
B
It finally happened, and it actually happened over the summer, but it was buried deep in Houston property records, which is a fun place to spend an afternoon. And I certainly have spent a few hours in those databases over the past week. Basically what happened is at the beginning of this year, Coen Brothers Realty, Charles Cohen, the owner of the PDC and the D and D building, formerly the owner of the Dakota, he had a mortgage on the Decorative Center Houston. It came to maturity. I think it was a 10 year mortgage and they hadn't paid off the entirety of the debt. He was negotiating with the bank. And we talked about this on the show. The bank pushed the DCH towards foreclosure. So there was clearly some kind of drama going on behind the scenes. It seemed like it had died down towards the end of the summer, but lo and behold, we found out that in fact, in fact, the bank which really owned the property, owned the dch, turned around and sold it to this mysterious investment group. The headline is, Charles Cohen is no longer the owner of the dch. What did you make of this news? Not really a surprise, right?
- [18:09]
A
No, not a surprise. As you say. We had largely assumed this a while back and have just recently gotten the official confirmation of it. It seems like it's just another domino to fall. And it does make me Wonder if maybe Mr. Cohen won't be in the design center business as a whole for much longer. I don't know. A collective sigh of relief was heard from tenants in Houston. I don't know if that was the feedback that you got, but I think people felt whatever comes next, it has to be better than what we've been going through these past few years in particular.
- [18:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, Cohen, this is not a secret. It's not necessarily the most beloved landlord in the design industry. There's sort of a general sense that they're cutting costs and not putting in toilet paper in the bathrooms at their buildings. And there's a lot of dissatisfaction with Coen Brothers Realty as a landlord. So when this news started to break, it was actually at the DLN conference in Madrid and I was talking about this with people as I was working on the story, and I won't specifically say who, but pretty much everyone I told this to was like, oh, thank goodness. We, we're really excited to see a new landlord come in and take over the building. This is great news. A couple things. One, the future of the dch. I don't actually know who really bought it. There's this company called E Capital Management, which buys distressed loans. It's a company based in Fort Worth. This company got a few investors on board to do this deal. I don't really know who those investors are. I'm hoping that information comes out. This could be a prelude towards turning this into a housing development. Hopefully. This is actually about revitalizing the building and reinvesting in the design community. But we don't exactly know what's going to happen there. So that's something to watch carefully. And if you know, please DM us.
- [20:05]
A
Exactly.
- [20:06]
B
But yeah, it's such a good question about another domino. Like Charles Cohen lost the Dakota relatively recently. Last November. This year, he lost this. So he used to have four design centers. Now he's got two. And the question is, is it as advantageous to only have two design centers as it was to have four? He's under a lot of stress with another lawsuit going on with his other lender called Fortress, and he still owes them money. Is he going to sell off the D and D and the pdc? It feels like a more real possibility with each little droplet of news that comes out. I don't know if that seems likely or unlikely to you, but it's certainly being speculated on by people that I talk to.
- [20:44]
A
Yeah, there seem to have been a lot of synergies back in the. And it was all these different design centers and there was all this communication team throughout and the same leasing person and all of that. And so I just don't know that it makes nearly as much sense to just have both of these very. I don't want to say distressed, but both of the PDC and the D and D, the occupancy rate is not what it was years ago, as anybody knows. And as you were saying, the. The service in the buildings has gotten quite erratic. So I think both of those buildings would welcome a change as well. Although some people that I talk to say, oh, better the devil you know than whoever might come next.
- [21:29]
B
Yeah, that's the big question. Would you rather have a slightly underwhelming design center or a housing complex? I think that's the question. And so the speculation is largely that Jamestown, the company that took over management of the Dakota, is going to come in and do that. I don't know how realistic that is with the decorative center Houston. It depends on who the people are that just bought it. I don't know if Jamestown wants to buy the PDC and the D and D building. They're in the thick of building out the Charleston design district. But I think that would be interesting. And we're actually going to have, I believe, someone from Jamestown on the show in the not too distant future. So maybe you can turn the screws on him, Dennis, and try and find out if he's going to buy the D and D. But a lot it feels more in play than ever. So it's a story to watch closely.
- [22:16]
A
We are going to have Jamestown on the show in just a few weeks, I hope, and so perhaps we will know more and perhaps the timing will be fortuitous and announcements can be made.
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B
Did we just scare them away? I hope. Maybe we should edit this out so they still come on the show.
- [22:33]
A
No, I think it'll be great. And I think there's a lot of enthusiasm at Jamestown around the design space, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them want to take a meaningful role. Well, stay tuned for that. In the meantime, we're going to move on to earnings season.
- [22:47]
B
Fred Our House and First Dibs reported largely positive results, though Ethan Allen didn't fare quite as well. Dennis, where do you want to start?
- [22:55]
A
Should we jump into First Dibs? Fred because we've been teasing that big stock move for a while, which continues.
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B
Yes, exactly. First Dibs, Fascinating story here. First Dibs debuted on the stock market as a public company a few years ago and really fell off a cliff as may too strong, but it was trading very, very low. The total value of the company in the stock market was equal to the cash it had in the bank, which is never a good sign. It's been sort of languishing in that $3 range. And then a few months ago, we started to notice that it was creeping up and creeping up and creeping up. And they had their earnings call last week and it's been creeping up even more. It's up to almost $5 at this point. They had a good earnings call. I think the headline is the that they're still not profitable, but they're getting closer to it and they're projecting that in the last little bit of the year they're going to be EBITDA profitable, which is a complicated financial way of saying they're still losing money, but less money, but they're going in the right direction. They've cut their staff, they've cut their expenses to the bone. But it seems to be working for them. A lot of the numbers were going the right way and Wall street seemed to really like it. What was your read on the report?
- [24:05]
A
Yeah, and they announced a share repurchase of around $12 million. As you and I have discussed, what is there left to cut at that operation? And yet they still report scaling back and they scale back on the marketing expense a bit again to help these numbers. So the CEO, David Rosenblatt, felt like this was a major turning point. And it's interesting, as you say, about the share price, which we've been following and talking about quite a bit, a new 52 week for the stock as we speak. And I have to wonder if some people were short first dibs and so they're getting squeezed. I don't know. That stock is, is moving up very rapidly. So anybody who's on the wrong side of this trade is not, is not feeling good because there's, there's no limit to how far up it can, it can go. But these numbers come at a time where I, I, I still don't get the sense that there's, there's huge demand for the, for the product. It's not like, like, oh, happy days are here again. It's much more, we continue to cut, margins are improving, and here's where we are. What's your sense?
- [25:19]
B
I think my basic take on it is essentially that they've cut it to the bone and once the housing market does turn around, which strongly pushes firstib's business, that they'll be well positioned to take advantage of that, I'm sure. I think David probably said that more or less exactly on the call. A couple interesting things from the call. I haven't been following first Dips to be as closely as I should have over the past year, but I think they got, they used to have, they had, they had auctions on the platform for the first time a few years back. I think they've gotten rid of auctions. They also have this really interesting AI tool that's kind of causing a little bit of controversy among sellers. It's basically what it is, is, you know, people list something on first dibs and they list their price and then first dibs provides like a first dibs estimate that uses, you know, AI to come up with a price range of here's what we think this is worth. And of course sellers hate this because they want to get the best price they possibly can. And, and there's been a little bit of chatter around that on social media. And so it's just interesting At a time when they're doing financially well, there's always the question of, like, do the sellers really like being on here? Will they be able to keep everyone happy and profitable and making money? That's always been kind of a First Dib story. And I don't want to say long may it continue, but it seems like that's just sort of baked into what the company's all about.
- [26:32]
A
Well, I mean, as you say, this new AI tool seems to be one of the things that is upsetting people recently. And I think you and I were talking before the show started about Fernway announcing they were coming off of the platform because of some challenges around this.
- [26:51]
B
Well, yeah, it makes more sense for an antique. When the customer comes and they don't know what the reasonable price is for this Eames lounger from the 80s is, or whatever, that makes sense to me. But when it's a vendor selling a new product, like, here is my retail price for my chair. For First Dibs to say, here's what we think it's worth. It's upsetting to these people, understandably.
- [27:12]
A
Honestly, ever since First Dibs first made the transition and became E Commerce and all of that, there has just always been a struggle there. And so it continues. But we should move on and talk about some of the other companies who recently reported, such as Our House.
- [27:29]
B
Our House, yeah, they had a reasonably good quarter, basically. Kind of a similar story, actually, just without the drama. For instance, their net revenue went up 8%. Their margin increased 8%. They're making money. And they were quick to point out on the call that they're debt free. I wonder if they were calling out anyone in particular when they made that point clear to investors. But I think the really interesting thing about Our House, and you mentioned this right before we started recording, is that it's just surprising. Housing is still down. Tariffs are very disruptive. But our House had a pretty good quarter. What did you make of it?
- [28:04]
A
Had a pretty good quarter and yet it cannot find a friend on Wall Street. I mean, I just feel like that stock is trading below $10 a share. And the reaction was so ho hum from the Street. I don't know if it's mortgage rates, housing market. I don't know what the gray rain cloud is that's over it. But there's just not a lot of enthusiasm, despite a very enthusiastic CEO who said these numbers were great. Our new product rollout is great. Our new store openings are fantastic. So, I mean, he was as enthusiastic as he could be. But nothing is Making people believe there is a sustainable growth of any dramatic nature coming out of this anytime soon. And that seems to be the biggest issue holding that stock and the perception of that company. Back a bit, I think.
- [28:59]
B
Do you think investors are right though? Because shouldn't we be encouraged by the fact that this is a company that sells to a lot of designers and people are very aware of it and they seem to be doing well? That would suggest to me that maybe all the doom and gloom that we talk about is missing the mark. And actually things are pretty okay whether Wall street likes the stock or not. Shouldn't we be encouraged by a reasonably good performance from this company Or. Or is that sort of a naive rose tinted glasses view of what this call.
- [29:26]
A
It could just be that we're in a time where Wall street is looking for greater growth opportunities elsewhere. You look at where RH is trading, you look at where our house is trading, there is no enthusiasm around these furniture stocks.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah. So maybe everyone's putting it into Nvidia.
- [29:44]
A
Exactly. It's all about AI and again, there's just nothing. Something for people to really get excited about. I think there will be when the street really senses a meaningful housing turnaround is coming. And I think the street will spot it early as it usually does. But that is not the indication that these stocks are giving. And these stocks are often pretty good barometers of where things are headed.
- [30:07]
B
Well, we'll hope you're wrong on that front. Let's maybe move on to Ethan Allen, who sort of fared the worst of the three companies we're talking about. Ironically enough, their numbers weren't totally terrible. They had some decline in wholesale net sales. They sell a lot to the US Government and the shutdown was affecting that. So that went down a little bit. Their traffic was down, their in store traffic was down considerably. This wasn't a dramatic decline in terms of their numbers. It was a weak quarter, certainly. But you were talking about what Wall street thinks. Wall street hated this. They sent Ethan Allen tumbling down 20% despite the fact that they're paying a dividend. So giving money to shareholders as they often do. I don't want to read too much into one earnings call and how stock market analysts reacted. But this makes it seem like Ethan Allen is a company that's in trouble, which is surprising because aren't they supposed to be the American manufacturer? What's going on here, Dennis, what do you think?
- [31:03]
A
Well, I think to pick up on the point you were just making, I don't think it's despite the fact that they're paying a dividend, I think the street is first dibs is hitting a 52 week high as we speak. Even Allen is hitting a 52 week low as we speak. And I think the street is responding to the fact that this is a company paying a very high dividend and is not showing any signs of meaningful growth. You go back in time and look at Ethan Allen. It was a stock that was once a company that was once valued at close to $2 billion. And that market cap is roughly around 580 coming into the show as we were record. So this company has lost so much market share. You and I were having a discussion a while back about viewing itself almost as a utility company. The problem with that model is that a utility company like a Consolidated Edison or a Pacific Gas and Electric, they have a guaranteed market, they have a guaranteed customer base and so they can afford to pay out that dividend to those shareholders for a long period of time. Ethan Allen continues to lose market share and continues to to not demonstrate to the market that it's making innovative product. It seems so far behind where our house and RH and others in the space are. And I think the concern that this company is just continuing to pay out all of this money that they should be putting into product innovation and into technology and instead they're just putting it into dividends. And I think the Wall street is really ringing alarm bells and calling I think, for a pretty dramatic shift in the that company's leadership.
- [32:49]
B
Yeah, well, we'll see. The CEO, Farooq Kothwari is very beloved in the industry. Indeed, he's been there for a very long time. But it's possible that he'll find cause to step aside and let someone new come in over the next couple years. We'll have to see how the market reacts to that. I do think they probably need some cool new product and some cool new ideas. I know they do invest in technology, but maybe it's not the right kind of technology. But yeah, clearly Wall street does not like what's happening to Ethan Allen, so we'll have to follow that one.
- [33:18]
A
No, absolutely. And I don't mean to be all down in the dumps about all these companies, but the street is speaking pretty loudly about this sector at the moment and it's not what we would like. So we're going to move on to have a much more fun conversation. Fred about house names for the New York Times this week, Jennifer Bradley Franklin explored a growing trend in which homeowners are giving their Spaces, unique names sometimes paired with logos and personalized decor. And I, for one, Fred, am all for it.
- [33:52]
B
So have you ever lived in a house with a name, Dennis? You must have.
- [33:55]
A
Well, so, funny enough, so the apartment that I grew up in, 114 East 71st street, is really named Lenox Court. And I much preferred Lenox Court as a child. I thought, yes, of course, I live at Lenox Court. Where do you live? And I loved that my apartment had a name like that. So, yes, I'm all for it.
- [34:14]
B
Yeah. No, I can't say that I've ever lived in such a growing. In California, the houses don't really have names like that. And I've lived in some questionable New York apartments that maybe had a name written down somewhere, but not one that I was aware of. This is sort of a funny phenomenon, right? Because I think the article in the Times sort of points out that there's sort of like a kind of a. There's almost a lightly humorous element to this, because, of course, the houses that really have names are the sort of European chateaus that have been there for hundreds of years. So is it really appropriate to call something in a Dallas suburb like the Hendricks Court or whatever it is? It's a little silly, and I think people kind of have fun with it. But it's funny because we were talking about this before, but this is something that designers really do a lot. They give their projects a name on their website. They give it kind of a brand identity. So the idea of giving a house a name is, you know, for designers, there's nothing new.
- [35:11]
A
No. And I think that we've talked about Ken Folk in the past who creates a whole movie and often creates uniforms for the people that work in the house. And there's. There's all sorts of additional elements. And there's personal stationary that's made up with the crest and the picture of the home and the name. I mean, I think you can really lean into this. And I had. I had put something up on social media earlier, asking people about this, and everyone who's writing in saying, yes, of course, course they should have names. Absolutely lean into that. And of course, all my English friends are saying, well, that's how we do it in the UK anyway. It's so much better. But I was doing a panel recently with David maccachen from Workshop APD at High Point, and of course, he's all about branding. And so when they do projects, they love to create brand identity and create a whole story behind it. And I think it Just adds so much richness and depth to the property and to the experience.
- [36:14]
B
Weren't you saying before we started that Ken Folk comes up with these names and there was only one client who kind of rejected the name and didn't like it, or so it didn't quite stick? Was that right?
- [36:23]
A
Yes. Well, he was very funny about it. He sort of said only one time did a client. And I don't know if the client didn't like the movie and where it was all going or didn't he always.
- [36:34]
B
Every project is a movie for Ken Folk.
- [36:36]
A
But I think it's so fun.
- [36:38]
B
I think it's really fun and I think it's sort of a marketing thing. It's a way to wrap a brand around something. What's more fun putting on your website, like, hey, here's my project. One two six Sparrow Lane versus here's Casa Rosada or here's this house. It's a fun thing. Maybe unsurprisingly because I'm someone who writes like 10,000 words every week. I'm a huge fan of names and words. I think they really can shape products and projects. You know, really well named products can. The name becomes wrapped up in their identity. I don't know. I'm just. I'm obsessed with names. I think this is a really fun conversation. So I love that houses have names too.
- [37:13]
A
I agree. I mean, and bringing it back to our Monday guests and Farrow and Ball and I mean, I think part of the reason that company was as successful as it was was all of the great names. And so I think there's so much good stuff that comes with naming products. You know, our phone number growing up was Trafalgar 95849 and it just even that sound more glamorous and elegant. Of course. You've reached Trafalgar nine. I'm sorry that the scullies aren't home right now in Lenox Court. But yeah, I mean, all of that just made it. Made it more grand. I loved in this story the people getting little monogram towels with the. I mean, you can take it as far as you want to, but I think it's a lot of fun and I'm sure the real estate people love it. Probably helps your house to increase in value, right, if it has some great names.
- [38:05]
B
Exactly. I love how we're giving advice on this. And our show is called the Thursday show because it's on Thursday. We need a naming consultant.
- [38:12]
A
Wait a sec. We need a naming committee. Let's call the Pharaoh and ball, people. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a roundup of new product and the latest in the Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams legal saga. We'll be back in a minute. But first, a quick break. This season at Icoults celebrates storytelling through the lens of design. Their award winning collaboration with the Metropolitan Museum of Art will soon be followed by the brand's first ever Designer collaborations. In 2026, expect the unexpected with Corey Damon Jenkins lighting line. And later this year, enter the glamlistic world of Vanessa de Leon with her case goods collection. Follow them on Instagram Worldof Icoults to stay connected, that's orldofeicholtz on Instagram. Windows and doors might not be the flashiest part of a design project, but they can completely change the look and feel of a space. And when you're working with a trusted name like Renewal by Andersen, you know it's done right. Their interior designer loyalty program connects you with a dedicated expert who manages every detail so you can focus on your creative vision while earning exclusive rewards and trade discounts. It's smart, simple and saves you time on every project. Plus could be an additional revenue stream for your business. Apply today at renewalbyandersondesigner.com Terms and conditions apply. And now back to the show. And we're back. I'm joined now by the founder of Maiden Home, Nidhi Kapoor. Nidhi, thank you so much for joining me.
- [40:05]
C
Thank you so much for having me back.
- [40:07]
A
Well, exactly having you back, Nidhi, because wait for it, Nidhi Kapoor was the seventh guest to appear on the Business of Home way back when. And we've had over 500 shows. So this is quite a while back. And I am so excited not only to have you back, Nitty, but to talk about how you survived and thrived from 2018 when we first had you on a feat that many in your space did not accomplish. As you know, it's been a challenging few years. Many of the companies that we spoke to when we first launched the show are no longer here. But you are. And we're going to talk about that. But first, let's remind people. Let's go back to 2018. You were a year into Maiden Home and you were telling us about this business that you created. So what was Maidenhome? And then we'll talk about all that it's evolved into today.
- [41:05]
C
Well, thank you so much again for having me. It's amazing to see how you've built this platform over the years and I'm so honored to be back and tell the story. It's been an amazing ride. You know, Maiden Home, as it is today, say, is truly not that different than the original vision. We've been able to stay really true to it. And really we're a New York, New York City based design house focused on creating original objects of design. We have in our eight year history been very focused on custom handcrafted furniture and on a mission to bring the products to market that I wished existed. When I was starting the company, designing my own home in the shoes of my clients. And the journey has taken us well beyond our roots of custom upholstery, which is where we started and where we were when we first chatted, to really every kind of corner of the home with aspirations well beyond even where we serve today.
- [42:03]
A
Exactly. And when I say the company has evolved a great deal, I mean from when you and I first spoke, you were going to North Carolina, you were meeting with the furniture makers and you had narrowed down to, if I recall, there were three manufacturers that you were going to partner with originally to create some custom upholstery available online. And you had developed your own cushions and you had brought in all these materials as a way to bring down the cost. And so you had a very reasonably costing custom sofa that was available online. And this seemed very innovative, was very innovative in many ways at the time. But it was a relatively small offering because you were really wanting to see how it played out and what resonated with people and what they gravitated towards. So it was a very disciplined offering in the beginning and it seemed as if that model worked for you. I'm curious, sort of how it went those first few years and what you learned along the way because now you have physical spaces, which we'll talk about, and you have a much wider product offering.
- [43:11]
C
That's right. And I think that discipline of design and development that I took when it was just me in those early days, designing, as you said, a really focused assortment to the assortment that we offer today, it really hasn't changed. And so the way I would describe it, I grew up in Silicon Valley and, and I went to Stanford and I worked at Google. And I have reverence for the craft of technology, innovation, but I never made anything with my hands before. I didn't know anyone that made anything with their hands before. And being in those workrooms and understanding that even to this day there is so little in the making of a custom sofa at the high End, of course, that is done by machine. Machine. And truly quality of the product. The story, the heritage of that product is in the hand of the maker, the person that made it, their craft, how they were trained, how they're feeling that day. I mean, it is. Each piece is one of a kind because of the human touch. And that was this fascination with craft, which led me to North Carolina. You know, the very best artisanship for that product that I was offering at that time, I stayed true to that. It is the thing that has really defined who we are. It's in our DNA. We can't do anything else. We've considered multiple other ways. There are much faster ways and easier ways to bring product to market, turns out, and I know all of them, but we just reject that approach because the market is already so saturated with so much product that looks like all the other product that's made in the same factories. And so really, you know, we. We've scaled that original approach that you and I talked about in the early days.
- [44:57]
A
Well, exactly. And. And that's. That's part of what I want to. To honestly learn from you is, hey, how'd you do that? Because what we saw from the many people that we had on the show in the early days that were trying to be disruptors or trying to do something different, much of it online, sometimes it was the scaling that brought them down. Sometimes they had gotten a bunch of venture capital money and tried to grow too quickly. What were you able to do? How did you succeed in growing and obviously experiencing the huge boom during COVID that everybody did, and then that bubble burst a little bit, and everyone had a challenging time navigating that slowdown or less volume. And I really want to hear like, how'd you do it, Nidhi?
- [45:49]
C
I don't mean to oversimplify it, but truly, it's just dogged folks from a business model standpoint, you know, I think that the opportunity is quite clear, and I felt it in a very organic way. You don't have any to do any research. When you're in the market yourself and you feel you're searching for products that you wish existed, you are uninspired by what the market has to offer, and you want to create. You feel this urge and this drive to create. I followed that drive. I felt that if I am feeling those pain points as a client client, there's got to be thousands of clients like me out there. And at the beginning, you don't know exactly how big the opportunity is, but just, you know, followed my instincts Truly from the very beginning in terms of the creative, the look, the feel, the aesthetic of the product, the quality, every detail of it, the service. I would like how I want to explain the story to clients. I think, you know, the trade has been a huge driver of the business actually since the early days. I think direct to consumer for us is less about. About retail, client versus trade. Trade was always. They were the early adopters of Maiden Home. And because we were focused on that from the beginning, whether it be our lead times, our quality making and meeting promises, that has been a huge driver of our growth over the years in all kinds of market fluctuations, which frankly, we don't spend that much time thinking about. We really focus on our clients. But those deep loyal relationships that we've had with the trade who, you know, it is a cult following, truly in terms of this group of designers, they closely follow Maidenhome. Look to our perspective on design and what we're bringing to market, how we're thinking about design and truly value our unique point of view because we don't try to be all things to all people. But you know what, what really garners our loyalty and what is important, I know it is to them and how they run their business is the service service that we offer. And I, I really credit, you know, our. Not just resilience, but as you said, ability to not just survive, but thrive. We truly are thriving through all kinds of ups and downs in the broader market. There's a lot of challenging decisions that, you know, you might have to make when you're under market pressure. Right. I mean, we've seen it taking costs, taking quality out of the product designing, quote, unquote, more commercial product promotions, discounts, things like that. I mean, I understand why those decisions get made elsewhere and I, and I do empathize with that kind of pressure. But as we all know, over the long term, in terms of earning the trust and building that reputation with your clients, those things can be very destructive.
- [48:30]
A
So winning over the skeptical North Carolina manufacturers took some time, no doubt, but you have clearly won them over. I repeatedly hear from CEOs in North Carolina, you're one that they are watching. You're one that they say, I oh yeah, she figured it out. And I'm wondering, was that one of the most difficult parts? And how long did that take? Or what has been, besides staying laser focused as you've articulated, what were some of the challenges through the ups and downs along the way? And tell me about winning over North Carolina furniture makers, Nitty, because that's not easy to do.
- [49:11]
C
I mean, they were quite open minded to the concept, to be honest. I think the most challenging part of what we're doing right now, what we have been doing is really scaling and providing wide access to this artisanal level of craft and this high level of design and finding the artisan partners who now span the globe, really, that's taken us to Europe. We do a lot of business in Europe today, for example, and you know, the same story as what we kind of cracked in North Carolina. Which was the best place to make our original product line. Custom upholstery are stone pieces. That's Italy. It's got to be Italy. There's nowhere else in the world and we've seen it all. And so, you know, I think the challenge for us has been replicating those relationships in North Carolina, many of whom have not, you know, really commercialized what they do at even the scale that Baden Home is operating at with our, you know, lead time, our on time rate expectations, our quality expectations. We are the most, most. And everyone in North Carolina will tell you we are the most picky. We cannot be more picky.
- [50:22]
A
I have heard that.
- [50:25]
C
But there's, there's no other way. I can't put my name behind a product that doesn't meet those standards. And that is our biggest challenge. So replicating that, cracking that nut in North Carolina and doing it again and again, where our design vision takes us, accessing new pools of craft and talent. And that's really hard to do because, because I have spent a lot of time in Asia. Vietnam spent a week and a half there last year. And I see how that product is made. I understand how everyone makes product and where they make it and the trade offs that they make to bring product to market at the prices that they do have no interest in, that will not be doing any business there. And so really we have to look elsewhere. We have to look and push through walls and go places where, where no one else is interested in going. Because it's really not that easy and it's not that cheap. And so it's working with these artisans and helping them understand the value that Maidenhome can bring. But that is what I did, day one of Maidenhome in North Carolina. But now we're doing it again.
- [51:28]
A
So that, that, that's so interesting. So you, you went to Vietnam, where lots of people in the furniture industry are getting their product right. You saw all, everybody. I'm sure you saw plenty of RH sofas and plenty of whatever, whatever, right? What didn't seem right for you. So what did you see that said, oh, this isn't going to be a Maidenhome partner.
- [51:48]
C
It's just mass production and the quality reflects that. I mean, it's in the details. It's the standard of finish. Right. Is your finish two steps or is it 12 steps? Is it a solid wood top or is it this veneer honeycomb thing in the middle? Middle, because it has to come all the way from Asia and that would be way too heavy to ship. Right. We can't have that. I have to be on board with every one of those very long list of attributes, which is why we really don't do very much product. You know, we design way more than we launch in any given year because so many things have to go right. It has to be a have to have. You know, if we're going to take the harder route, I need to have a real reason why to explain to my team. And that's why I went to VM Vietnam, to understand and we do our homework and then we make the choices that are right for us.
- [52:39]
A
Right. Okay. So you knew that wasn't the partner for you. And part of what I'm curious about, it seems as if to your point, you've been designing all this product for so long, you seem to have so many ideas of where you wanted to go and where you wanted to take things. But you were also very methodical and. And took your time. But now you've got a lot of new product and I wonder when you felt the time was right for that. What's been leading you to want to bring out all of this new product? Even the evolution of very much the Maidenholm look seems much more. You tell me the words that you want to use to describe it, modern, contemporary, whatever it is, is. And I wonder how scary it is to step away from the safety and security of. You figured out the North Carolina upholstery model and that seemed to be working well. How frightening is it for you to bring in all of this new product and to your point, try and bring some scale to these craftsmen and these much smaller operations that aren't mass producing product, but you have to work hand in glove with them to make them able to bring the product over to you in a way that meets your long checklist of quality and craftsmanship. So tell me about that.
- [54:05]
C
I love a challenge. I love going. And you feel it when you're there, a place where everyone else has long turned back. You feel it when you're there. No one Else is this great crazy. I'll just ask.
- [54:20]
A
I can see the tracks in the snow. They turned back here as they were climbing.
- [54:24]
B
You look around.
- [54:25]
C
No one is trying to do that. And those are the most exciting moments for me in building the business that I tell my team, feel it. This is it right here. Like climbing this mountain, making this product happen with an artisan that we found who's, like, truly the only person in the country who can pour cast glass at this kind of scale. But we have to have it. This is the good stuff. And this is where we're creating product that adds to the conversation, that has a reason to exist, that has a real legacy that people will look back at in 20 or 30 years and continue to respect. And so, as you know, we opened our flagship in New York City about two years ago.
- [55:07]
A
Yes.
- [55:07]
C
So expanding that footprint made a ton of sense. Miami has been a exploding market for us, and so it was a natural next step for us. We just opened in the design district last week. So thank you for bearing with me. I've been a little occupied.
- [55:26]
A
You've had a lot going on. Yeah.
- [55:28]
C
And it's just. And yet another chapter of connecting more deeply with our clients.
- [55:32]
A
You mentioned the meatpacking shop that you opened. Opening that space was a big step. This Miami, the next big step. And from a marketing perspective, because everyone is trying to figure out what is working today, what is driving traffic, what is driving people. So often people will say, incredibly helpful to have a physical location. It's a huge marketing tool in addition to all of the other things that can happen there. Tell me how. How you think about that, and tell me what marketing tools have been most effective for you these days. Because this whole AI search has kind of changed the dynamic for people.
- [56:17]
C
We have a rather small and rather underdeveloped marketing strategy, I will say, because we let the product do the marketing. Truthfully, the trade. Interior designers that have started to really follow us, that some of the most influential designers in the industry that have come to understand what is unique about Maidenhome, they spread the word in a very kind of organic way. Right. I mean, designers are the original influencer in the category. And, you know, not just with each other, with retail consumers and any end client, when they start the process of decorating their home, they ask their interior designer, who's a friend, who do you trust? Who do you do business with? And interior designers do spread the word. And the way we engage interior designers, designers and. And give them first access is through product. We launch new product. We Showcase it in our flagship stores. We host brand experiences for designers to get first look at that product. That is really how things spread. You know, of course being in locations that are easily accessible for designers as part of their day design district, meatpacking, those things are very important from a visibility standpoint. It's kind of the old school of approach to. Because I think that's what, that's what's right. Again, I go back to what stage that we can really shine on. It is not the click on the Instagram or the Google search ad. You just miss the entire story. I we just know interested in competing there. I'm interested in quote unquote marketing or barely brand awareness strategies that allow us to tell our story. Because our story is what is really.
- [57:55]
A
Special in thinking about this climb up the the luxury mountain, for lack of a better analogy in the short term. The industry has gotten a lot more expensive in recent years and I'm always worried that we start to look too expensive for people and it turns them away or everyone is to your point, trying to find ways to value engineer something or try and bring a product to market. That's definitely not what you're trying to to do. But how have you thought about the product mix? Definitely getting much more expensive than what the original concept was, which was relatively inexpensive sofas being brought to people out of North Carolina in a short period of time. How have you thought about sort of the price escalation component in all of this?
- [58:45]
C
We were really thoughtful and intentional about our pricing. Fair and honest pricing is. That's really our North Star, you know, which it's not that simple. You know, there's way more art than science that goes into that, you know, and it's a lot of frankly my judgment, like what's a fair price for that? And if we can't offer it at a price that I feel is. It's not about being competitive, it's just about being honest and fair. You know, of course there's been inflation. You know, we primarily 95% of our products are still made here in the US and some of the new forays into material have taken us to Europe, as I mentioned. But even here in the U.S. you know, there's been quite a bit of inflation. Labor, as I mentioned, it's a handcrafted product. So, you know, the biggest cost in our product is the time for the for people to make it. And we make them in work rooms with really high quality standards, really high labor standards. Those things are very important to us. Focus on sustainability. And so, but we think our client values that just as much as we do. Right. So, so we make good decisions every step of the way in design and then we price fairly, you know, where we think is good value. And I would never make a choice to leave a quality story or a quality standard on the table to chase a better price point. Our clients wouldn't want us to. That's not the type of client that we have. And so whatever is happening in kind of the macro climate, it shouldn't drive our short term decision decisions. These are really timeless pieces that I hope to have in the catalog for years to come. And so, you know, we make decisions really for the long term and, and really in pursuit of quality.
- [60:30]
A
And, and when you in, in sort of wrapping all of this up, if there's anybody listening to this who says, okay, I, I want to go out and start a business, I want to create a product or I want to come to market with something, what have you, what have you learned through this whole process? What can you share with others who are thinking about trying to take on a challenge like this?
- [60:54]
C
It's just what I highlighted where the feeling you have when you're out on the edge of where you can see solid land and you're in places where you know no one else has gone and you're up against challenges that feel, feel truly impossible, that is the time to double down and push through. That is how you can really trailblaze. You can create something really special. And my advice is to like, find, seek out those moments and push through them. And that is what the world needs. That's certainly what this category needs, you know, and that's what I've learned. And that's been a virtuous cycle for me. It was, I was scary at the beginning when there were too many unknowns, zones to really hold on to anything. But it's been something that's just become part of our process now. So I remember those early days of being up against what felt like insurmountable challenges. Now those seem small relative to the things that we're doing right. But whenever you get that feeling, it's a little scary pushing through in that moment, doubling down on the things that you really believe in and just having conviction, believing in yourself. That's what matters.
- [62:06]
A
Finally, I'm wondering, you referenced earlier for those who didn't know, went to Stanford, worked for Google early on in your career, I assume artificial intelligence is showing up in conversations and in your business in some way. First of all, tell me what you Even make of this incredibly explosive growth of artificial intelligence. And are you fascinated by it? Are you curious about it? And then are there real business applications that you think are meaningful that you might or might not be employing yourself?
- [62:41]
C
It's so exciting. I love innovation. Change is progress. It's the only way we can move forward. And our job is to understand it and harness it and evolve with it. Right. No matter what we're doing, we're not a technology company. But one of the best ways we have used AI is to. We don't bother our customers with a lot of focus groups and things like that. Right. But something that we do do is when we want to understand where there are opportunities to, say, expand a line of products, right? Where we're seeing a lot of excitement around a product and there's opportunities to offer more finishes, more sizes, kind of like really get behind that band and serve that demand. That's an example of where we have, have thousands of conversations every week with the clients, right over a number of different channels. And you can use artificial intelligence to really synthesize down the nature of those conversations, understand the incidents of different types of trends that are happening in your real conversations with clients. That's a great example of how we're using it every day to make faster decisions, more convicted decisions, and understand kind of the pulse of what our clients want and how we can serve them better. But I think, you know, it's, it's all of our job to embrace it and make it part of our lives and have it help us, like any technology, be more efficient, be smarter, make faster decisions, and then free up more time to focus on the things that, you know, only humans can do today, which is those human connections with the partners that we forge. Like, that is something that is a human trusting another human to make a product and, and, and scale a product together. So we use technology to allow our team to make the highest and best use of their time.
- [64:29]
A
Makes sense. Well, I am thrilled to have you back, guest number seven. I'm thrilled to have you back on the show after all these years, Nidhi, and congratulations on all you've achieved. And it sounds like there's a lot more to come, so we will have you back when there's more to talk about. But I'm, I'm thrilled to get to catch up with you and I thank you for your time.
- [64:51]
C
Thank you so much. I'm, I'm really happy to be back and catch up.
- [64:58]
A
And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show. Here. But before we go, we like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred?
- [65:06]
B
Well, when you're gone for two weeks, a lot catches your eyes. I got, I got a backlog. I've caught my eyes here. I'm going to try and keep it as short as possible possible. Earlier, we were just talking about ICFF and BDNY and all that good stuff, and I just saw that Julia Haley Montanez, who you may remember her, she started the maid section of the AdHome show back in the day. She has a great Instagram account. Interior declined, highly recommended. Follow. She is taking over in some capacity to work on Wanted, sort of the kind of cool indie section of icff. The history is too long, narrow, but go into all of it. But that'll be exciting. She obviously, you know, made her name doing that kind of thing for AD the AdHome show, so I'm excited to see what she does for Wanted. And that will only fuel the fire of this feud that Dennis, you're trying to start here. So that, that was a cool little bit of news. Moving over to Substack, Jill Singer, friend of the show, one of the founders of the newsletter site Unseen, has a substack. It's very cool. It's called Counter Space, and she's already got two issues up. One of them is about when did modular furniture stop being fun? Which I kind of, I kind of enjoyed and made me do a deep dive into some modular furniture. Jill's a great writer and definitely, like, knows the design industry like the back of her hand. So I'm excited to, to follow her sub stack and see what she does with it. And then finally, just a little shout out. Sarah Fritsch, a former guest of this the show and former, former leader of Schoolhouses, has a cool company called Studio Tigris, and one of her products was picked up by Drum roll, please, Oprah. Oprah likes Sarah's plate, so I really enjoyed seeing that. And it's kind of fun to see podcast alumni doing great things. I'm sure that's how Sarah calls herself.
- [66:45]
A
A podcast alumni, but sure, she has a T shirt that says just that.
- [66:49]
B
Exactly. That's her main claim to fame, aside from, you know, all that stuff with Schoolhouse. Anyway, sorry for the, for the monologue there, but those three things definitely caught my eye. What caught your eye, Dennis?
- [66:59]
A
A couple things I noticed. One is friend of the show, Veer Grenny is actually going to have a Create Academy course, which is sort of the UK Masterclass series. And to kick it off, there's actually going to be a fun interview with the former editor of British House and Garden had a bing. Another friend of the show, she was.
- [67:22]
B
On the back of the Bustle and at the DLN conference.
- [67:25]
A
Yes, I saw she was at the dln.
- [67:26]
B
That was some gossip I didn't want to share. But I'm glad we glad the news is out there.
- [67:31]
A
Yes. So she's going to be doing sort of a fun interview with Veer as a way to kick off the Create Academy course. And, and I'm looking forward to. To that. That should be very fun. And finally, I hope that many people listening to the show will be coming along with me to the Ticking Tent on Saturday. Former guests of the show once again, Ben Reynard and Christina Juarez are putting on the Ticking Tent out in Bedford, New York this, this Saturday. And come one, come all, I know I will be there. The lovely Mrs. Scully will be there as well. And I hear big crowds are coming. Fred, can we put you down for the Ticking Tent?
- [68:09]
B
I gotta rest and work off all this homo.
- [68:12]
A
Yes, yes, you have to recover from Madrid. Understood. But I hope I will see many friends of the show there on Saturday. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if you want to get in touch with the show, write to us@podcastusinessofhome.com this episode was was produced by Fred Nicholas and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.