Why House of Hackney put Mother Nature on its board of directors

Summary

Summary of "Why House of Hackney Put Mother Nature on Its Board of Directors"

Podcast: Business of Home Podcast
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Frieda Gormley, Co-founder of House of Hackney
Release Date: December 9, 2024

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1. Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully engages in a deep conversation with Frieda Gormley, the co-founder of the renowned British textile and wallpaper brand, House of Hackney. Together with her husband, Javi Royal, Frieda transitioned from the corporate sphere to establish a brand deeply intertwined with nature and sustainability. This episode delves into the brand's journey, challenges, innovative practices, and groundbreaking decision to include Mother Nature on their board of directors.

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2. Frieda's Background and Founding House of Hackney

Frieda Gormley opens up about her unconventional path to the interior design industry. Originally from Dublin, Frieda pursued law but soon realized it wasn't her calling. Her creative spirit led her to join Ireland's largest retailer, Dunn Stores, and subsequently, she became a buyer at the influential fashion chain, Topshop.

Notable Quote:

“Jane Shepherdson really showed to me that business could be a voice for good.”
— Frieda Gormley [04:51]

Under the mentorship of Topshop's CEO Jane Shepherdson, Frieda was inspired to integrate values like fair trade and organic materials into business. This foundation was pivotal when she and Javi decided to launch House of Hackney, aiming to infuse nature into home interiors with vibrant patterns and sustainable practices.

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3. Early Business Challenges and Growth

Launching House of Hackney was fraught with challenges. Frieda recounts their initial struggles with sales and establishing credibility in a market that is inherently cautious and values durability and craftsmanship.

Notable Quote:

“The first year is the toughest. And actually the first five years are tough.”
— Frieda Gormley [15:18]

Their perseverance saw a turning point when they secured a partnership with Liberty, a prestigious British luxury department store, which significantly boosted their visibility and sales. This success laid the groundwork for House of Hackney’s first flagship store in East London five years post-launch.

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4. Navigating Private Equity

As House of Hackney expanded, Frieda and Javi sought private equity to stabilize and grow the business. They entered into a private equity deal that allowed them to retain majority ownership—a rarity in such arrangements. This partnership brought in experienced management that fortified the company's financial and operational structures.

Notable Quote:

“The model is about high growth, fast growth and it's very exploitive. So yeah, the model itself needs reform.”
— Frieda Gormley [19:35]

Despite initial successes, they faced the inherent challenges of the private equity model, which emphasizes rapid growth often at the expense of sustainable practices. This experience ultimately influenced their philosophy on growth and business sustainability.

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5. Embracing Sustainability and Mission-Driven Practices

House of Hackney has always prioritized sustainability, but their commitment deepened over time. They meticulously calculated their environmental footprint and realized that their initial contributions to restoration projects were insufficient.

Notable Quote:

“We feel it's our duty to contribute towards the reparations of what's happened in the past.”
— Frieda Gormley [27:06]

In response, they increased their contributions to 5% of all sales towards nature restoration and actively engaged with their supply chain to promote regenerative practices. This holistic approach ensures that their business operations align seamlessly with their environmental ethos.

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6. Introducing Mother Nature to the Board

One of the most groundbreaking decisions by House of Hackney is appointing Mother Nature and future generations to their board of directors. This symbolic move reinforces their dedication to environmental stewardship and long-term thinking.

Notable Quote:

“Business is responsible for a lot of the mess the planet is currently in.”
— Frieda Gormley [23:13]

Through this initiative, facilitated by Lawyers for Nature, House of Hackney commits to considering the environmental impact of every business decision, ensuring that sustainability is ingrained in their corporate strategy.

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7. Philosophical Approach to Growth

Frieda emphasizes a cautious and purposeful approach to growth. House of Hackney aims to maintain a team of around 40 people, balancing profitability with their restoration projects. Growth is pursued only when it aligns with their mission, preventing the dilution of their core values.

Notable Quote:

“We will only grow if it's necessitated by purpose.”
— Frieda Gormley [22:56]

This philosophy not only preserves the company’s integrity but also fosters an environment where innovation and sustainability thrive hand in hand.

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8. Company Culture and the Four-Day Workweek

House of Hackney pioneered the four-day workweek, branding Fridays as "Nature Fridays." This initiative encourages employees to spend more time in nature, fostering a healthy work-life balance and enhancing overall team well-being.

Notable Quote:

“We want to give people time to build that relationship [with nature].”
— Frieda Gormley [38:26]

The positive impact on employee retention and energy levels underscores the success of this progressive work model, inspiring other companies in the interior design industry.

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9. Future Plans and Industry Impact

Looking ahead, House of Hackney is focused on refining their sustainable practices and exploring innovative solutions like plant-based paints. Frieda advocates for industry-wide collaboration to drive meaningful environmental change and emphasizes the importance of educating customers about sustainable choices.

Notable Quote:

“Beauty should be quite holistically beautiful and go deeper than just the aesthetic.”
— Frieda Gormley [42:45]

Her vision extends beyond product design to fostering a collective responsibility within the industry, aiming to harmonize aesthetics with ecological integrity.

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10. Personal Insights and Closing Thoughts

Outside of her professional endeavors, Frieda finds solace in nature, frequently swimming and walking in Cornwall. Her personal connection to the environment fuels her dedication to making House of Hackney a beacon of sustainability in the home design industry.

Notable Quote:

“Being in nature with my friends, family, or just by myself is what fills my cup again.”
— Frieda Gormley [44:36]

Frieda's unwavering commitment to nature and sustainability serves as an inspiration, highlighting the profound impact that purposeful business practices can have on both the environment and community.

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Conclusion

This episode of the Business of Home Podcast offers a compelling narrative of how House of Hackney blends creativity, sustainability, and social responsibility. Frieda Gormley's journey underscores the potential of mission-driven businesses to effect positive change, setting a benchmark for the interior design community and beyond.

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Listen to the full episode here to dive deeper into Frieda Gormley's transformative approach to business and sustainability.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Frieda Gormley, the co founder of British textile and wallpaper brand House of Hackney. A former buyer at the fashion chain Topshop, Gormley and her husband, Javi Royal left the corporate world to start a brand with a deep connection to nature. The result was a vibrant collection of patterns and a business that looked to do good as much as it did well. Frida and Javi have taken the bold step of carving out a role for Mother Nature on their corporate board. I spoke with Frida about the difficult year that defined their business, why they implemented a four day workweek, and why they're very, very cautious when it comes to growth. This podcast is sponsored by Liloi, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This season, Liloi introduces a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics and all price points. Visit leloyrugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account that's L O l o I rugs.com and follow them on Instagram and TikTok eloyrugs. This podcast is also sponsored by Claphs, the world leader in sauna luxury. For thousands of years, sauna bathing has provided the heat we crave. With Claphs saunas, you can select the exact levels of temperature and humidity to create a wide range of soothing atmospheres, from a classic Finnish sauna to a gentler, softer steam experience. When you step into a Clafs sauna, you are in control. To learn more about the leaders in sauna luxury and their exclusive trade programs, visit klaffsusa.com that's K L A F S USA.com and now back to the show.

[Interviewer]

So, Frida, as I mentioned to you earlier, there are so many things that I'm eager to get into about your business and what you're thinking about these days. But tell us a little bit of what you were doing before you came into this industry and how what you were doing and the life experiences that you were having led to what you're working on now.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, I mean, I'm originally from Dublin. I actually studied law, but I dropped out of it.

[Interviewer]

And what happened there?

[Frieda Gormley]

I just chose the wrong course. I actually found it. You know, I think I would find law more interesting now, especially as we're becoming very interested in nature, rights, law. Yes, but back then I found it. I was a Creative. I founded two black and white. My father was a lawyer, he's retired now and he actually told me, don't do it.

[Interviewer]

Oh really? Okay. So he wasn't pressuring you to enter?

[Frieda Gormley]

No, quite the opposite. You know, you don't really listen to your parents and I mean I grew up loving English and history but yeah, it wasn't for me. So in Dublin I started, I got in the door of Ireland's largest retailer, they're called Dunn Stores and I was put on their trainee buying program and spent some years with Duns and was in my early 20s. London was sort of the hub of everything, you know, fashion, music and Topshop was absolutely the king of the high street.

[Interviewer]

It was exploding.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, it really was. So I was very lucky to, yeah, to get a place on the Topshop buying team and moved to London and I was very lucky to be at Topshop and just to be there at a very special moment when Jane Shepherdson was the CEO. So Jane was, I mean, you know, she, she ended up being sort of my biggest mentor but she really showed to me that business could be a voice for good. And even though it was a high street company, she was very much, you know, she was a pioneer of fair trade, helping young designers or using organic materials. So she really, yeah, she really kind of ignited something in me. Then Philip Green bought Topshop, he bought the Arcadia Group and things. Things really changed. I think he may have bought it before I joined but he decided to become a lot more active in it. And I mean Philip Green, for those who don't know him, could quite arguably be called, you know, probably the worst.

[Interviewer]

Capitalist in the uk if you do say so yourself.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Frieda Gormley]

But you know, I feel grateful to have had those years with Jane because I don't think I possibly. It was there, it was definitely the building blocks towards doing House of Hackney. So yeah, I met Javi, my husband, during my time at Topshop and yeah, we had our first child together. We bought our first home and we had. Which was a house in Hackney and we, yeah, we firstly decorated it in the style of the time which was very much white walled, minimalism. We were really craving print, color, texture and I think because the mood outside was so bleak and we were sort of thinking back to our sort of 80s childhoods where, you know, there was William Morris on the wall and Colfax and Fowler and so. So yeah, there was sort of, I think, you know, how we were feeling the mood of the times. You know, we started going to antique markets and sort of, you Know, sort of being. We were much more inspired by what we were seeing there, but at the same time we weren't trying to sort of recreate our grandmother's home either. And we very much, you know, we wanted to bring nature into our home. And. Yes, so House of Hackney was born and the ambition was very much to bring the outdoors into the home.

[Interviewer]

And through what vehicle? What did you imagine House of Hackney was going to be in the early days?

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, well, you know, I'd always loved wallpaper at the time, the traditional wallpaper, textile and textile companies, they really hadn't changed since the 80s. You know, their prints hadn't changed, their designs hadn't changed. The craftsmanship and the quality, the longevity was absolutely there. But that market just didn't. It spoke more to our parents than it did to us as, you know, young people. So we were inspired by those categories, by wallpaper, fabric. We were very much inspired by a traditional British aesthetic, but we really wanted to juxtapose the old with a, with a dose of modernity and just fun as well, because we were living in serious times. Yeah, so. So yeah, we, you know, we knew nothing about interiors, which in many ways was a blessing, I think. I think to the interiors world. We were like the enfant terrible because it was like, who are these, who.

[Interviewer]

Are these crazy kids?

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah. Who've come around and are, you know, we didn't understand why there had to be kind of, you know, so many middlemen in interiors.

[Interviewer]

Well, so in the early days when you were, if I recall, you went around the country and trying to find vendors and partners. Right. And people who could make product for you. So tell me a little bit about that and what you found.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, so I mean, my only experience had been working in the high street, which is very much a far Eastern supply base.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Frieda Gormley]

So we had no little black book of.

[Interviewer]

Local wallpaper makers.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, yeah, High end interior manufacturers.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Frieda Gormley]

So we, we literally, we bought a van and we spent six months literally driving the length and breadth of England, knocking on doors. And we were very pleased to find that there still was an existence in the uk. There are pockets of generational factories that still existed that had been passed down from like father to son literally over hundreds of years. And those sort of, those pockets of industry, although sleepy, still very much existed.

[Interviewer]

And in the early days, were you self funding yourself? Was this savings or reaching out to friends and family or how were you getting it off the ground? I know later you had some investors and we can talk about that.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yes, yes, I Mean those early days? Well, pre launch, I think we had about six months between, maybe eight months between leaving our jobs and launching. We had some savings, we had not much. I mean, I think we launched the whole brand for under 100k. So it was a mixture between our savings and then we did a little bit of. In the uk, there's a scheme called the Enterprise Investment Scheme where friends and family could put a little bit of, you know, a few thousand pounds in each and there was a tax, tax benefit from them. So yeah, we had, we had, you know, because to be able to actually buy your production and everything and do everything you need to do to your photo shoots and marketing and launch the brand, it was very, very hand to mouth. And I think working at Topshop, I mean, I was quite naive really, because I thought, you know, if you have good product, you have a good marketing campaign, you get a lot of press around you launch, you're going to be okay, it's going to sell. And I'll always remember the, the day we launched, which was April 1, 2011.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Frieda Gormley]

And we'd had a. We had quite a big launch party which was hosted by Gwendolyn, Gwendolyn Christie from the Game of Thrones, you might remember her, she was a friend and she hosted it. She was pre fame. And I remember us waking up the next morning because we had lots of press and thinking, we've survived, we've survived, we can start like buying fruit again, you know, and because it was so hand tonight and we woke up and it was like zero sales, right. And we were like, oh, my goodness, the website must, there must something must.

[Interviewer]

Not be working on the website anyway.

[Frieda Gormley]

And so started the most painful six months whereby sales were so minimal. But I think what we, looking back, you know, interiors is very much a considered purchase. It's not something that, you know, you don't, you don't just, you know, you can't try it on, Right. You've got to have sort of a project in mind. It's a much slower purchase. Also, we were brand new, you know, we who, you know, who was anyone to trust us, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Frieda Gormley]

And it was such a brand new aesthetic as well.

[Interviewer]

So the website launches, the sales don't arrive. Shockingly, the sales don't arrive on day one. And you were just talking about the sort of first six months being quite a challenge.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, I mean, I think myself and Javi, we really walked around in. I remember just people meeting me in the street and just. I just looked like a walking ghost because we Just felt, what have we done? We have, you know, we quit our jobs. It was such a reckless act to do that. We thought we had, like a viable business plan. People obviously don't understand it, aren't ready for it. We have a young child, we have a mortgage. What were we thinking? So it was, it was a very, very. It was, it was a such a low point. So much so we literally were like, do we need to get second jobs? And. But you know what, slowly but surely, people started to order samples online. It was interesting because the first people who shocked us were the people who are most confident in their taste. So it was like creative directors and artists. And then quite soon afterwards we got a call from Liberty, the British luxury department store. So we set up in Liberty and they obviously had much higher traffic than we had. And it started to get exciting and encouraging because people were buying it there and word of mouth started to spread and other retailers started to get in touch and just general confidence and a buzz started to happen. But I will say, anyone who is setting up a company, I will say that that first year is the toughest. And actually the first five years are tough.

[Interviewer]

Actually, the whole time turns out to be tough.

[Frieda Gormley]

I don't know. Interestingly, I think there are just these sort of gestational. There are these sort of business milestones. Things did get a bit easier after year five.

[Interviewer]

Well, so. And tell me what happened after year five.

[Dennis Scully]

So what's what started to get easier.

[Interviewer]

And what was it a level of acceptance in the marketplace? Was it? I mean, tell me about that.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, for the first two years there was three people. There was myself and Javi and we had a wonderful assistant called Kirsty. And between the three of us, we did every job in the company and we learned so much. But over, over those first few years, you know, we started to outgrow our space and we, we became a bit more confident that there was a future for the business. And certainly, you know, our, our retail partners, Liberty, Harrods, you know, we started to pick up people like Bergdorf Goodman and. And they all started to sell the brand well, so there was confidence and we had a sort of a vision for a house of Hackney World and what that looked like. So we decided to sort of take the first steps towards actually having our own space. So five years in, we opened our first flagship store in East London. To be able to do it and to be able to, you know, afford almost a year's rant up front. And we started, you know, very much needing some senior Management and we needed, you know, someone great at the helm who sort of, you know, our skill set was very much on the creative side. On the marketing side. We were missing the operational merchandising side of things.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Frieda Gormley]

So we knew that we were. And you know, and we also just didn't have enough stock. So it. Which was actually quite problematic because we couldn't service the opportunity. So we decided to go to market and get. Look for investment finance, which at the time it was very much about, you know, private equity, equity finance, which I mean, I think looking back, we possibly heard. Yeah, a little bit about its evil.

[Interviewer]

Well, I was wondering what your impression was, if you really even had one of what private equity was really all about. Did you know anyone who had gone through the experience or did you, what level of familiarity, I guess did you have?

[Frieda Gormley]

You know, it was very much the peak of private equity and all the sort of like, you know, young London luxury brands. We're all in private equity relationships. And yes, we definitely had heard a few horror stories but we'd also heard sort of success stories. And so we, but we thought, you know, what if we, if we retain majority we can, you know, keep our reins on the company and we can make sure that we protect it's sort of precious ecosystem and you know, our, keep our values intact and all that kind of stuff. So anyhow, we, we ended up doing a private equity deal which allowed us to retain the majority, which is very rare.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Frieda Gormley]

And it enabled us to bring in a wonderful md, Sam, who actually was GM at Liberty. And yeah, she was a really welcome addition and really helped us and yeah, and a few other just, yeah, important, you know, we were able to sort out our finance departments, our sales departments and the company just was, it was stabilized.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Frieda Gormley]

So it was, you know, we couldn't have done it without that.

[Interviewer]

So you were experiencing all the good things about private equity. Look at that.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yes. I mean it has been a challenging journey.

[Interviewer]

How so?

[Frieda Gormley]

I won't go into too much detail because, yeah, it's too raw, it's too emotional for you. It's too raw. But ultimately the model is about high growth, fast growth and it's very exploitive. So yeah, the model itself needs reform.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Interviewer]

The notion of growth. Because you and I have spoken recently about you questioning the very need for growth and does that necessarily fit in with what you are trying to do? Which is very much, if I understand you correctly, a mission driven company that is wrestling with how do we better take care of nature and our muse and give back in so many ways. So tell me, I'm trying to think of how best to get into all.

[Dennis Scully]

Of that with you.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, I mean, I think from the start, myself and Javi, we've never been financially motivated but what we learned quite quickly on was you, you actually, you know, you do need to have, you know, you need to be able to place minimum orders, minimum order quantities. You do need to be a certain size of business just to not go under as well when you're dealing with manufacturing.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Frieda Gormley]

So there absolutely needs to be, there's a quantum there that you need. And even looking at sort of our size today, we are, we're a team of about 40 odd people and we don't see the team size growing much. We don't see the sales growing much either. But it feels like we are a great size to be able to incubate new ideas, keep our heads above water, make enough profit to be able to channel it into our restoration projects. But beyond that, we say we will only grow if it's necessitated by purpose.

[Interviewer]

Let's talk about what first made me reach out to you, which was the announcement that you made about putting Mother Nature and future generations actually on your board and what that, what that really.

[Dennis Scully]

Means and what's involved in that.

[Frieda Gormley]

So I think, you know, we felt that we were sort of taking such endless inspiration from nature that we felt, you know, we really needed to sort of act in reciprocity to nature. And over time we were very much, you know, using our platforms to advocate for nature. But we really kind of wanted to make our relationship with nature official. And we've sort of been thinking about how could we do this? How could we really bring nature into our company and you know, make Mother Nature very visible. So we got in touch with lawyers for nature and they agreed to mentor us to help us create basically a directorship that would not just honor Mother Nature, but also future generations. As well. You know, business is responsible for getting us into a lot of the mess that the planet is currently in. You know, the capitalist model which very much favors, you know, fast growth, very short term planning. I mean we've all been asked to do three to five year plans. You know, those three to five year plans are very much, they're not thinking about what is going to be our impact on future life. And we wanted to create this future generations directorship to really make us think quite long term about our actions.

[Interviewer]

And so a representative from Lawyers for Nature comes to. I don't know how often your board meets, but a few times a year at least, I'm assuming monthly. Monthly. Okay, so you're meeting monthly?

[Frieda Gormley]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And is the representative raising issues around your supply chain, around some of your partnerships and what their supply chains look like? Tell me what some of the issues are that are raised by the representative of nature.

[Frieda Gormley]

So we started with really reviewing our mission. You know, why did we, what's the reason for us to exist? And we decided that House of Hackney's purpose is to be a restoration project in craft, community and nature. So with the idea of very sort of officially using our sales to funnel into key projects, key restoration projects that could really help restore nature and especially within the touchpoints that our business touches. So trees, which obviously wallpaper, cotton industry and also local projects as well. So we worked with an agency called the True Price Agency to very much calculate what is our footprint. We as a company, we were giving 1% of all sales, we were putting that into key restoration projects. What came back, even though our footprint is pretty small and we've actually moved to becoming quite a print order model as well, which has like such minimal wastage. Actually the calculation of our true cost is coming at 3%, the equivalent of 3% of sales, which is quite a gap between us feeling we were being generous with our 1%.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Frieda Gormley]

So but it's very, it's enlightening. So what it has given us and then we think about, okay, that's just paying for our own footprint. What about the damage that industries have done in the past? You know, we feel it's our duty as being kind of the current inhabitants, you know, the planet of this time, to actually to contribute towards the reparations of what's happened in the past. So we feel right now we should be contributing 5% of all sales into nature restoration. So we need to now model that into our P and L and look at, we need to be fiscally healthy and we want to be Holistically successful.

[Interviewer]

That's a big number to take 5% of your sales straight off the top.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah. What we'll do now is while we pay that, we will also actively work on our supply base on our materials, which has been another really important initiative this year. So our three biggest sort of, you know, areas of impact are the paper industry through our wallpaper, the cotton industry and the paint industry. So we felt, okay, we work with these factories who are all also keen to come with us on this journey. But ultimately our factories are buying from their suppliers. They're buying the raw materials. We actually need to use our agency to try and make change at the supply level. So we hosted for the second time this year a supplier summit, and we invited those three industries to actually join us for two days to really work with our factories, with our suppliers and the industry to try and see how we can shift towards more regenerative practices within these industries.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, whose newest introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines and Rifle Paper Company, plus newly added one of a kind rugs, pillows and wall art. Visit loloyrugs.com to see them all. That's LOL and loloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show.

[Interviewer]

If I recall, your early private equity investor may have wrapped up its relationship with you at this point.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yes. So we're in the process of exiting at the moment. So unfortunately, the investment finance sector for businesses really needs. It needs to be reimagined. So I think it will be really interesting to see in the next few years how, you know, with there being so much to talk about the idea of regenerative business and there's sort of so many books on the subject, there are actually quite few cases in practice, which is why, you know, we're kind of trying to feel our way through this. And a lot of it is almost, it's about kind of unlearning.

[Interviewer]

I mean, first of all, I'm wondering how this is received with both the customers that you're trying to sell to. I'm wondering how your sales reps and all of the people who have to go out and deliver this message and how they're feeling about it and also how it's resonating with your customer base and all of that. Because this is, this is a lot of information coming at people about what is behind your company beyond the beautiful product which you want them to love and want on its own.

[Frieda Gormley]

So one of the things we had to assess was part of our business model was built around collaborations, and we had some sort of historic relationships that under the lens of having what would nature want? Just, they didn't. They no longer sort of stacked up with the journey we were on. So we had to wind down quite a few of them only because some of these other companies, some of them would be kind of quite major retailers. And although they're on their journey, it's. They're less agile than we are. And so, yeah, they're not as sort of. They're not as far as we need them to be on their journey. We got offered some. We've been offered some really lucrative. Yeah, you know, partnership deals, I would think, which we've, you know, the past couple of years we've had to just say no to and actually really didn't even have to think about it.

[Interviewer]

There's so much opportunity for you in America waiting for you, Frida. Okay. It's. Wait, it's. It's sitting there waiting for you. Are you. Are you yet at a point in this whole process where you have figured out how to expand and grow and still stay true to everything that you've just been talking about? Because there are so many. I mean, I think you and I talked about Texas or parts of the South. Right. That I'm. I know, I know Frida could be such enormous markets for you.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But you. But you have to want to go there and you have to want to expand.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah. We absolutely love the US and the American customer found House of Hackney very early on. I don't know how they found us, but they did. They're definitely, as you say, there is a lot of opportunity for the brand in the U.S. i think for us, we're not going to expand for the sake of expanding. We. We are at a. We're at a size of brand which we love. It still feels like family. And I think we're just quite cautious about not wanting to. Yeah. To upset that beautiful equilibrium and ecosystem in any way. I'm not saying just about opening the US Just, you know, with expansion can come headache.

[Interviewer]

So your feeling is, if I'm understanding what you're saying is you wouldn't want to merely just partner with a wonderful showroom there for the sake of expanding sales. There would have to be a real. A real mission that you could find there in Texas.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, you will not see us expanding just because there's an opportunity. You will not see us opening up on the high streets of this world because, yeah, the world doesn't need it. So I think for us to, to sort of, to, yeah. Move further into the US it would be very much sort of a case by case. How could we serve that locality and are we needed there?

[Interviewer]

Well, I wonder with, with that in mind, how has it made you think differently about what you're doing in New York? So you have the showroom at the New York Design center, and from, from what I gather, it's been quite successful and a lot of people have, have found you there. Are there ways that you want to do more locally in New York or doors? I mean, how has it changed your thinking there?

[Frieda Gormley]

So we have found a really great home in the design center. I wouldn't say it's our spiritual home, but yeah, it does what it needs to do.

[Interviewer]

Do I need to encourage Jim Druckmann to get a roof garden or something for you or what would, what would.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, we, we love Jim. We love Jim so much and we have been talking to him about, about what, what can, what could we use? Could we grow on the roof? You know, because there are so many, there are so many roofs in New York which could literally feed people. But yeah, we, he and we are having those kind of conversations.

[Interviewer]

So designers in the US if they're not in New York or if they're all over the country, are they coming through the New York showroom? Are they coming through your website? I mean, how are you at the moment taking care of all of the demand that you have?

[Frieda Gormley]

Yes. So designers come through our website or they will go through our team. Our team who are New York based, they will go on the road. They each have the responsibility for different states. So and they are wonderful brand, brand ambassadors. And I should say that you mentioned about how does the team feel sort of representing the mission. And one of the interesting things was, you know, over the past couple of years, we've actually stopped seeing our team just as well. We've never really seen them as employees per se, but we really see them now as ambassadors of this mission. So with every appointment, they will, they're right there sort of, you know, telling their customers about what we're up to and inspiring our customers. And we were an early pioneer of the four day week in our company. And it's been really encouraging to see, yeah, other companies, other interior designers and design houses be inspired by what we've done and by our team telling them about it and how it's worked.

[Interviewer]

We have A four day work week and we love it. Is that pretty much the message?

[Frieda Gormley]

Well, yeah, but you know, it's good for business too. It is good for business. You know, the, I'm glad to hear that the industrial, you know, all the revolutions promised us more free time and that never, that never happens. So for us it was about giving back time and giving people more time in nature. We call them Nature Fridays. We feel for people to sort of be able to advocate for nature. They need to have a relationship with nature and we want to be able to give people time to build that relationship.

[Interviewer]

So that's what they can do on Fridays. They can, they can commune with nature.

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, exactly. It's up to them, but it's, it's not mandated.

[Interviewer]

You don't have to go to the park, but you.

[Frieda Gormley]

No, but we'd love you to. Exactly, yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer]

Understood, understood. But that, but that has been well received. And you think, all joking aside, you think that that has helped business?

[Frieda Gormley]

Absolutely. It's helped with retention, it's helped with, you know, we have a healthy, energized team and we need more life, work balance in our, in our working week.

[Interviewer]

We do, we do. No question. There are so many different topics that I, that I would love to go deeper into with you. So we'll have to have another conversation, but one of the things I wanted to ask you was what can we do to make this industry really care more about this? Is it education? Is it? I mean, what do you, what do you think needs to happen to heighten the urgency, if you will?

[Frieda Gormley]

I think there's a lot of different levers that we need to sort of collectively work on. I think one is, as I said earlier in the conversation, going back to the source of materials and putting pressure on our supply bases, you know, hosting those conversations. I think, you know, competitive brands need to come together and sort of quit competing and actually start collaborating because ultimately they are the customers. So they can actually affect change by almost, you know, coming together and mandating that the supply base changes and working with them to help, you know, force that through. I think also we need to work on our, on our customers. I think we really need to activate ourselves and use our platforms to help educate ultimately, you know, social media, beyond just selling, there's a real opportunity to actually educate and inspire. And I think the customer is possibly going to need to appreciate perhaps a slightly different aesthetic going forward. If I think of the paint industry, which is a highly toxic, you know, manufacturing process and we are going to need to move to Plant based binders that is going to achieve a different look, probably a different look of paint than we're used to, but ultimately will harm our soils so much less.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel like we're close there with paint? I mean, I feel John, Sarah Ruth in the US who has the Parsons Library about materials, healthy materials, she was showing me recently some different ways of producing paint. And as you say, sometimes the colors aren't everything that we're used to. Perhaps. But do you feel like we're close to some real substitutes?

[Frieda Gormley]

Yeah, I mean, I think we hope to launch a substitute within the year, so we're really not too far away. But we will need to educate the customer about it in the same way. You know, when we launched House of Hackney, the customer was used to high street, high street prices and we did need to do some sort of subtle education around craftsmanship actually, you know, buy this and there's an economy of scale here that, you know, buy. Well, buy once, you know. So we are going to need to use our platforms to educate. We've recently switched some of our velvet to organic velvet and it's interesting that, you know, we make pillows. The organic cotton sort of grins a little bit. It's got like these sort of, you know, at the seams.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Frieda Gormley]

And we were a bit worried about it before we launched it and thankfully there hasn't been any resistance. But again, it's, it's about. We need to appreciate a slightly different imperfect beauty or challenge our perception of beauty.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Frieda Gormley]

And actually beauty, beauty should be quite holistically beautiful and go deeper than just the aesthetic.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. Finally, before I let you go, when you're not thinking about all of this, is there an escape for you? Is there some unrelated obsession or something that you're just enjoying that lets you turn off all of these thoughts and concerns for you?

[Frieda Gormley]

It would definitely be, unsurprisingly, be being in nature. I actually want to really create some like, outdoor rooms where we could just, yeah, spend the majority of our day outside and not inside. But. But no, I love. I swim all year round. I live in my family, we moved to Cornwall, which is in the far west of the uk, almost six years ago. And so I spend a few days a week in London in the hub of everything with my wonderful team and then retreat and I need to spend daily time in nature, whether it's swimming or going for a walk. Love to get my hands in the soil and it really kind of recalibrates me.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Frieda Gormley]

And I think, I think sort of, yeah. Part of the sort of malaise that's sort of being felt really everywhere at the moment is because. Yeah, in the space of two generations, we've become very distanced from nature. So, yeah, being in nature with my friends, family, or just by myself is what fills my cup again.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, I love that. And I love the idea that you're having a conversation with Jim Druckmann about that roof garden. I'm gonna get on the phone with him right after we finish talking and encourage him in that direction. I think that would be great. And as you say, the New York City rooftops could be a meaningful food supply source. And I wish that more people were focused on that because. Because I do think that that is one of the things that would greatly help.

[Frieda Gormley]

There are a few interesting projects around that happening in Brooklyn at the moment. So. Yeah. Watch this space.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm thrilled to get into all of this with you. You're so lovely to make the time. I know that you've been so busy, but thank you so much. I've been eager to talk to you for so long, so I'm glad it finally happened.

[Frieda Gormley]

Thank you so much, Dennis. I've really enjoyed our conversation and yeah, thank you for giving it a little platform.

[Interviewer]

Well, people are going to be so happy to hear from you, so thank you.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access, access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This episode was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Fraser McCullough. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and we'll be back with you on Thursday.