Why Tom Stringer gives his employees sabbaticals and executive coaching

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: Why Tom Stringer Gives His Employees Sabbaticals and Executive Coaching

Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Tom Stringer, Interior Designer and Founder of Tom Stringer Design Partners
Release Date: November 18, 2024

In this insightful episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully engages in an illuminating conversation with Tom Stringer, a revered figure in Chicago's interior design scene. Tom, who established his own design firm in the mid-1990s after honing his skills under Alessandro Branca, shares his unique approaches to client selection, employee retention, and business management. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, valuable insights, and forward-thinking conclusions drawn from their engaging dialogue.

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Early Inspirations and Path to Design

Tom Stringer's passion for design was evident from a young age. Growing up in Elm Grove, Wisconsin, Tom was captivated by architecture and system design, often sketching house plans on graph paper in second grade and modifying toy sets to simulate urban planning.

[02:34] Tom Stringer: “I started drawing house plans on graph paper I think in the second grade.”

This early fascination extended beyond mere drawings; Tom experimented with low-voltage landscape lighting in his mother's house during his teenage years, blending technical skills with creative design.

[04:00] Tom Stringer: “I started doing that, you know, in my mother's house, you know, insisting that we landscape light at my direction.”

His grandmother's encouragement further fueled his interest, humorously predicting a future as the "next White House gardener."

[04:07] Tom Stringer: “My grandmother proclaimed that I would be the next White House gardener for my love of gardening and sprinkling systems and things like that.”

Educational Journey and Early Career

Tom pursued his passion academically by enrolling in the College of Architecture at Arizona State University (ASU), deliberately choosing a program that integrated architecture, interiors, and product design. This multidisciplinary approach equipped him with a robust technical foundation.

[05:35] Tom Stringer: “I sought out a design program that was within a college of architecture because I was interested in an institution that would provide, I thought, a higher degree of technical focus.”

However, his academic journey was interspersed with significant real-world experiences. At just 20 years old, Tom took over a struggling design firm in Scottsdale when its owner fell ill, marking his first encounter with running a business.

[09:00] Tom Stringer: “At 20 to 21 years old, I found myself running a design firm... it was an adventure.”

Despite the challenges, this early leadership role underscored Tom's resilience and adaptability, traits that would later define his business philosophy.

Establishing a Legacy: Building Tom Stringer Design Partners

After gaining invaluable experience in Chicago under Alessandro Branca's mentorship, Tom founded his own firm nearly three decades ago. His vision was clear: to create a legacy firm characterized by robust business practices, exceptional client relationships, and a supportive work environment.

[13:57] Tom Stringer: “I wanted to build a firm that had a really good foundation. I wanted top notch business administration. I wanted employee retention.”

A cornerstone of his firm's enduring success is the cultivation of long-term relationships with clients, often spanning multiple generations. Tom exemplifies this with a longstanding partnership with a client he has served for 30 years, currently working on projects for the client's children and grandchild.

[14:52] Tom Stringer: “I have so much freedom because these are clients who come in with an idea and then essentially get out of the way because they have such a high level of trust that what my team will do is the right thing.”

Client Selection: Building Trust and Alignment

Tom emphasizes the importance of carefully vetting clients to ensure alignment in values and philanthropic outlooks. He employs a rigorous interview process akin to hiring, assessing potential clients based on their personal rapport, philanthropic activities, and even their use of language in conversations.

[20:43] Tom Stringer: “I look at many factors at when I'm looking at new clients... if a client's life story and their personality and their mannerisms and their energy make me want to hang out with them and go to dinner with them...”

This selective approach fosters a collaborative and respectful environment, enhancing the quality of design outcomes and client satisfaction.

[25:02] Tom Stringer: “We make the project moving forward and we solve the problem. And that's very powerful both in moving projects forward and in winning clients allegiance.”

Innovative Employee Retention: Sabbaticals and Executive Coaching

One of the most distinctive aspects of Tom's leadership is his commitment to employee well-being and professional growth. Recognizing that a happy and motivated team is pivotal to the firm's success, Tom has instituted several progressive benefits:

1. Sabbatical Program: Every five years, employees are granted a one-month sabbatical to pursue activities that enrich their professional and personal lives. This initiative not only rejuvenates the staff but also injects fresh perspectives into their work.

   [28:30] Tom Stringer: “We ask our employees to do something during the sabbatical that will benefit them professionally... a young designer who's been to Paris is a better designer.”

2. Professional Coaching: Inspired by his transformative experience with an executive coach, Tom extended professional coaching opportunities to all employees, fostering personal development and enhancing workplace culture.

   [32:14] Tom Stringer: “Professional coaching for all employees... it has changed the way we operate and the culture we foster.”

3. Robust Benefits Package: From insurance and retirement plans to comprehensive business administration support, Tom ensures that his employees have access to a wide array of benefits, contributing to high retention rates.

   [27:10] Tom Stringer: “We keep adding to the menu... insurance, vision, dental, and expanded to retirement 401k.”

These initiatives reflect Tom's belief that investing in employees leads to a more creative, dedicated, and loyal workforce, ultimately benefiting the firm's clients and projects.

Embracing Technology: The Future of Design

Tom is at the forefront of integrating technology into the design industry. As a lead investor and board member of Studio Designer, he advocates for leveraging big data and artificial intelligence to streamline design processes and enhance manufacturing efficiency.

[38:58] Tom Stringer: “If you can start tying all these things together... there's knowledge to be gained from the manufacturer side.”

He envisions a future where small artisanal manufacturers have access to predictive data, allowing them to anticipate trends, manage inventory effectively, and reduce lead times significantly.

[42:10] Tom Stringer: “A small shop with access to big data is not such a small shop if they are able to navigate the world around them in a more effective way.”

This technological integration promises to revolutionize manufacturing workflows, making the production of custom furniture and design elements more efficient and responsive to market demands.

Succession Planning: Ensuring a Lasting Legacy

Understanding the challenges of perpetuating a design firm beyond its founder's tenure, Tom has proactively implemented succession strategies. By rebranding to Tom Stringer Design Partners and cultivating a partnership model, he ensures that leadership transitions are seamless and that the firm's ethos is preserved.

[35:22] Tom Stringer: “We rebranded to Tom Stringer Design Partners 10 years ago... creating a partnership path for Kruti because we just felt like she had the administrative brainpower to power the organization forward.”

This approach not only secures the firm's future but also empowers emerging leaders within the organization to take on greater responsibilities, fostering a collaborative and sustainable business model.

Industry Challenges and Client Perceptions

Tom candidly addresses the inherent challenges within the interior design industry, particularly the perception of long lead times and high costs. He contrasts the rapid pace of modern consumer expectations with the meticulous and time-intensive nature of bespoke design work.

[46:11] Tom Stringer: “The time commitment to work with an interior designer is another thing... instant gratification or delayed gratification?”

Tom advocates for a cultural shift that values patience and quality over immediate results. By educating clients on the intricacies of the design process and the importance of thoughtful, data-driven design decisions, he aims to demystify the industry and highlight its true value.

[47:55] Tom Stringer: “I think it's a huge part of it... it's expensive, it's daunting, time-consuming.”

Conclusion: A Vision for the Future

Tom Stringer's thoughtful approach to business management, client relations, and employee development sets him apart in the interior design community. His commitment to fostering a positive workplace, coupled with his embrace of technological advancements, positions his firm for continued success and longevity. As the design industry evolves, Tom's strategies offer a blueprint for creating sustainable businesses that prioritize both quality and human capital.

[48:42] Tom Stringer: “It's been a pleasure. Great to be with you.”

Through his innovative practices and forward-thinking mindset, Tom Stringer exemplifies the qualities of a visionary leader dedicated to excellence, both in design and in the way his business operates.

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Notable Quotes:

• Early Passion for Design:

  “I started drawing house plans on graph paper I think in the second grade.” — [02:34]

• Leadership Under Pressure:

  “At 20 to 21 years old, I found myself running a design firm... it was an adventure.” — [09:00]

• Client Relationship Philosophy:

  “I have so much freedom because these are clients who come in with an idea and then essentially get out of the way because they have such a high level of trust that what my team will do is the right thing.” — [14:52]

• Employee Sabbaticals:

  “A young designer who's been to Paris is a better designer.” — [28:30]

• Embracing Technology:

  “A small shop with access to big data is not such a small shop if they are able to navigate the world around them in a more effective way.” — [42:10]

• Succession Planning:

  “We rebranded to Tom Stringer Design Partners 10 years ago... creating a partnership path for Kruti because we just felt like she had the administrative brainpower to power the organization forward.” — [35:22]

Tom Stringer's insights offer invaluable lessons for current and aspiring leaders within the interior design industry, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, strategic planning, and a genuine commitment to both clients and employees.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders, innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Tom Stringer, an icon of Chicago's design scene. Tom cut his teeth working for Alessandro Branca before starting his own firm in the mid-90s. Over the decades, his work has been widely featured in the shelter media, and his projects for some of America's most notable families have taken him around the world. I spoke with Tom about his surprising vetting process for new clients, why he gives his employees sabbaticals and executive coaching, and why he's at his best when he's in just a little over his this podcast is sponsored by Liloi, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This fall at High Point, Liloi introduced a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics and all price points. Visit liloirugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account that's L O l o I rugs.com follow them on Instagram and TikTok at laloyrugs. This podcast is also sponsored by Annie Selke. Rooms may come in different shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you have to settle for a rug with a so so fit. Annie Selkie, known for their best in class, Dash & Albert Rugs offer more than 140 custom sized rugs to suit not only any space but also every style from farmhouse to coastal and everything in between. Whether you opt for hand tufted wool, durable indoor, outdoor or natural jute, Annie Selkies custom size rugs will always give you a flawless fit down to the inch. To learn more, visit AnnieCelke.com that's a.

[Tom Stringer]

N n I e s e l.

[Dennis Scully]

K e dot com and now on with the show.

[Tom Stringer]

Tell me a little bit about where you grew up, how architecture became your field of interest and were there people in your life that influenced that for you?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah, I've been, I think, fairly obsessed with design and designing things and designing systems since I was a small child. I started drawing house plans on graph paper I think in the second grade.

[Tom Stringer]

Really?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah. And then modified toy sets to allow me to engage in. I think I hybridized Legos and hot cars in order to go through exercises in urban planning in my leftover sandbox. But I've been drawing houses and getting in trouble in school for doing stuff like that since I was very young. I remember getting in big trouble. I was fascinated. I picked Up a Toro lawn sprinkler catalog at the hardware store. I grew up in Elm Grove, Wisconsin, a suburb of Milwaukee, like 7,500 people. But I picked up at garden Fair this catalog on irrigation and became fascinated by it. And I started then designing irrigation systems for the houses that I had designed. And then I went on to put.

[Tom Stringer]

The Legos and the Hot Wheels, but.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

On graph paper too. I was developing sets of pens, including. Then I fell into love, low voltage landscape lighting and started, you know, imagining that. And ultimately my teen years, I started doing that, you know, in my mother's house, you know, insisting that we landscape light at my direction and so well.

[Tom Stringer]

And did people question what was going on with you? Did I mean, was there some explanation for why you were so passionate and interested in all of this?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I don't. My grandmother proclaimed that I would be the next White House gardener for my love of gardening and sprinkling systems and things like that. For a while, I thought that was a great aspiration.

[Tom Stringer]

But so it sounds like they let you explore all of this and perhaps were fascinated in your interest. Oh, yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I proceeded to do the same thing with my sister's dollhouse. And I wired it for low voltage light and then ultimately furniture and tech with the dolls. I was interested in the interiors. I mean, the Thorn Rooms were for me a huge inspiration. Just the Thorn Rooms at the Art Institute.

[Tom Stringer]

And you should tell people what the Thorn Rooms are that haven't seen them.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Okay, so the Thorn Rooms are some of the most amazing miniature period recreation miniature rooms. They're on display. They have their own facility within the Art Institute here in Chicago. And they are like completely scale accurate, period accurate reproductions of rooms through history.

[Tom Stringer]

They're stunning.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah, really stunning. And they're enough to make like a miniatures person, you know, lose their mind. And later we studied them in design school. They were really a valuable learning aid. In College of Architecture at asu, we studied them in interiors.

[Tom Stringer]

Oh, I'm glad to hear that. Because often we hear that on the architecture side, Interiors are often, I don't want to say ignored, but they're not held up as being as significant as the design itself.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I was in the design department in the College of Architecture at Arizona State, which I sought out specifically because they put architecture in interiors and product designers together in the same environment. I'm an interior designer, but a frustrated architect and product designer. I grew up a privileged child, a son of a doctor in a leafy suburb. And yes, I was supported as a child in being creative.

[Tom Stringer]

And so Architecture school seemed perfectly natural. This wasn't out of the blue for anyone.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I think when I was looking at schooling, I was a little afraid of being a decorator. Even though now I will happily call myself a decorator. I really wanted to be able to call myself an interior designer.

[Tom Stringer]

And what did you think was the difference between the two?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I think that was this would been the early 80s, and there was a burgeoning professionalism about design and a movement, I think, within education and design. It was the start of the qualifications for interior designers were starting to become an issue within state legislation. And so I sought out a design program that was within a college of architecture because I was interested in an institution that would provide, I thought, a higher degree of technical focus, and indeed it did.

[Tom Stringer]

And so you think that interior design implies a greater degree of technical focus or knowledge?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I think so. I think that's. I mean, that's. Maybe that's probably a broad generalization, but yes, I think. And with an increasingly complex landscape in terms of title, title registrations and title restrictions, I think most states are making a designation between a registered insurer designer versus a decorator.

[Tom Stringer]

So you've since come to accept either and you're happy to be called a decorator?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yes, absolutely. It doesn't offend me, and I use it. It's funny, now I use it and people will say, well, you're not really a decorator. And I'll say, well, why not?

[Tom Stringer]

I mean, and I think so many of the greats in interior design history, I mean, I think certainly Parrish, Hadley or some of the great firms of the past, I think they all saw themselves as decorators. It's interesting how the word. And designers feel very passionate one way or the other. Oftentimes.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yes. Yes. I've failed to. I've arced through being passionate about the distinction. And now I. Now I'm happy to respond to both. But yeah, I mean, Billy Baldwin would certainly be a hero of mine, and he would have been a decorator through.

[Tom Stringer]

Exactly.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So, you know, maybe I can aspire to being called a decorator, you know.

[Tom Stringer]

So architecture school, it sounds like it was a really good experience for you.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

It was good and bad.

[Tom Stringer]

Oh, okay.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I got a little bored in my first year of school, and I started working for a design firm, Nancy Kitchell in Scottsdale, who is still a great friend of mine. And I got pretty wrapped up in working for that firm. And ultimately, what happened? Nancy had a partner, Brad Newlin, who decided to go out on his own, and he offered Me a job. And I was going to school part time and working full time. And Brad became ill. And at 20 years old, he handed the keys to his firm to me and asked me to take it over while he recovered. And at 20 to 21 years old, I found myself running a design firm, a small design firm in Scottsdale and had quit school to do it. But it was, wow, it was an adventure. And I learned so much both from my association with Brad and from the necessity that I figure out a path forward for his firm to keep it going while he was away. And it was one of my first true trial by fires, and one. It made me understand how well I thrive in that environment. I'm at my best when I'm. When I'm over my head and when I'm nearly drowning. And then you, you fight and you, you survive and then you prosper. Anyways, I ran that firm for a couple of years and then started getting really concerned about being a partner in a design firm at 40 and not having a degree and not feeling legitimate. And so I went back to school at ASU and finished the senior studies program there, which was all studio. And it set me up for some really neat experiences. My first internship was with Charlie Feaster in San Francisco. Then he was leading the Feaster partnership.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

And they threw me in a. In a studio office by myself and told me to draw furniture. He was doing collections for Baker and for Casella and for Brad Jordan at that time. And I was in the back room designing furniture for Charlie. And like Brad, he. Very quickly, I associated with him with this kind of open giving, grandfatherly figure who, who taught me a lot, taught me a lot about furniture.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and you suggested that you were.

[Tom Stringer]

A frustrated product designer. Did it, I mean, did it make you want to pursue that when you were doing that design work?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah, it really did. I mean, we still do a lot of. A lot of custom product as a part of our work.

[Dennis Scully]

Sure.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

And I've looked at licensing as an option. I've actually chosen against it for now.

[Tom Stringer]

Okay.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Because it's more than a second job, and the commitment to selling product is a pretty big one.

[Tom Stringer]

All right, so it sounds like interesting experience coming out of school. Where else did you land coming out of school?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So I worked for Charlie Feaster, and then Charlie unfortunately passed away from HIV and they shuttered the firm. And I was left without a job with a small apartment at the corner of Lombard and Hyde in San Francisco, which is a very expensive place, unemployed. And I decided on a bit of A lark to move to Chicago. It felt like home for me. I had spent a lot of time here as a kid growing up in Milwaukee, an hour and a half north, and being in the Midwest just felt kind of good to me after a decade on the West Coast. And so I started. When I first moved here, I had a small design practice of my own. And I realized I was not ready to. I wasn't ready to establish a design firm on my own in a city as big and as design savvy as Chicago. And so I felt like I needed a little bit of time. And I went to work for Alessandro Branca as a designer and then over a couple year period with her office, rose to be their design director. And then from there I decided to launch my own firm. And that was nearly 30 years ago.

[Tom Stringer]

Having had all of the different experiences that you had and being as thoughtful as it sounds like you were about when was really the right time, what made it feel like that moment was the right time for you to start your own firm. And as you say, in a city that can be very intimidating, a city with such famous architecture and so many great and legendary figures that have come out of the design community there, how are you thinking about all of that?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

One of the things I was ultimately tasked with working for Alessandra was helping her grow the firm. And it made me realize that I was good at that. I was good at being with clients, I was good at attracting them, and I was good at retaining them. And one of the things that I observed really since starting to work in design in college, was that to grow in our industry, at least at that time, there was a lot of pressure to leave a good firm and to put your own name on your own door. And it seemed to me that that wasn't really necessarily very efficient and that it really stood in the way of building, I guess what you might call a legacy firm.

[Dennis Scully]

And you were thinking about that then.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Well, I wanted to build a firm that had a really good foundation. I wanted top notch business administration. I wanted. I wanted employee retention. I wanted to be able to create a place where people could come and stay and grow. Because frankly, with my experience with Alessandra, there wasn't a path for partnership for me and there wasn't a path for a name on the door. So I wanted to find a way of creating a firm that could outlast me. And that became a really, ultimately a tremendously important part of the business. We've developed this idea of institutional knowledge and a relationship with our clients. That moves through generations. We have so many long term clients coming back for additional work, including successive generations of the family, that it's actually hard to keep a lid on some of our growth. I'm doing a project right now for actually the woman who helped me start my business by giving me several projects and several years worth of work. She's now 85 and I'm just about to finish construction on a contemporary house in the woods for her. I've been building for her for 30 years and I've done three houses three times over for her and now houses for each of her five children, some of them multiple houses. And now we're moving on to the third generation. And the upside of that for me is that I have so much freedom because these are clients who come in with an idea and then essentially get out of the way because they have such a high level of trust that what my team will do is the right thing.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Tom Stringer]

Back to the show. Take me back because the two things I really want to get into within everything you've just outlined is both what are the real mechanics of working with these families decade after decade, through the generations, as you've suggested. But also you started to talk about how when you began your firm and you wanted to design a firm that both outlasted you and retained people for a meaningful period of time, what did you have to start to do to make that possible? How does one build a firm where people want to stay and that it can last beyond you?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

So it started with an idea. I think my first moves were to implement a very robust business practice. Accounting systems, financial controls, to make sure that the business was well run and then to be painfully transparent with my clients about how I made my money. I think our industry going back a long way has an unfortunate history of brilliant designers with unfortunate business practices and then looked at pay and benefits and strove to pay at the top of the pay scale from my industry, my area, and also to as quickly as possible create a benefits package at some point. Fast forward 10 years. I had a office in Chicago and an office in Los Angeles, and I was spending 150 nights a year in a hotel in Los Angeles managing that office. And this was before server systems for computers. We were linking our offices through a T1 line and a bunch of desktop computers and trying to create efficiency from that perspective so that I could have one business office running two design offices. And life started getting complicated for myself and my partner because he was traveling on business and I was traveling on business. And I made a really big decision to close the LA office and to see what it would feel like growing the Chicago office. But simultaneously I made a really kind of crazy mandate as a part of that, which was to carve out 12 weeks a year for me to travel more extensively. Travel was for me rocket fuel for creativity. And that was now, I believe, 20 years ago. And I've been doing it since they made it happen.

[Tom Stringer]

What had to be put in place for these three people to be able to cover you for what was initially 12 weeks and then over time became more and more time and did that mean for you that you couldn't be as involved in every little decision? Did you have to let go of a great many things over time and trust these people that you had put in place?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah, it wasn't without adjustments or some consternation, but I did end up hiring some really great people and I did learn how to seed the conversation with design direction and then to step out of the way and I learned how to delegate. Some of my longest term clients have also become dear, dear friends and we've managed to take some rather inspired journeys together as a part of our work and our personal friendship.

[Tom Stringer]

Do you feel that that's been a meaningful component of maintaining these long term relationships with these clients? Do you always become friends over time or sometimes yes, sometimes no. You travel with some, not with others? I mean, tell me.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

It depends upon the client. You know, every, every relationship is unique. But I, I am friends with our clients and I do find that kind of ultimately has become a litmus test with a new potential client. I look at many factors at when I'm looking at new clients and I know it's really hard to do, but I think you have to interview a client as carefully as you might interview a new employee. And honestly, I have to say on first meeting, if a client's life story and their personality and their mannerisms and their energy make me want to hang out with them and go to dinner with them and to hear their story. Then that's the test. Great. I love my work, but partly because I love my clients and I love the energy they bring. The second is that I look at their philanthropy. If a potential client has accumulated great wealth and they're not giving back, I don't think they're going to be my people. And then the third one is kind of. It's an aside. But honestly, if a client uses profanity in an interview with me, not in a judgmental way, but in an aside, if they drop the F bomb in a meeting, I know they feel comfortable with me and that there's like a thing. It's kind of weird.

[Tom Stringer]

But you're not turned off by that. On the contrary, they're showing that they're comfortable enough with you dropping the F.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Bomb in regard to.

[Tom Stringer]

Exactly. Fricking that effing Tom Stringer, man. I'm never going to work with his frickin.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

No. But if they're willing to. Yeah, if they're willing to drop the F button, I'm like, I think they feel comfortable here. I think they feel like we're going to be friends. It's anecdotal, but that's so interesting.

[Tom Stringer]

Okay. And that has a track record. Like, that's played out. It's got a track record.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

My best clients are prolific users of profanity. Apparently.

[Tom Stringer]

Now here I'm thinking of your clients as this blue blood, old time American heritage, corporate families. And now you're telling me they're all using profanity and they're all, oh, shatter my illusions.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

A new view of the old guard.

[Tom Stringer]

Shatter my illusions of the Wrigleys and the proctors and the gambles. Oh, my goodness, I had no idea.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so that's so interesting.

[Tom Stringer]

So they reveal themselves to you, it sounds like in many different ways, including using profanity, but also in giving back. And that is really exactly. The philanthropy part is perhaps not as important as the dropping the F bomb.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

But up there, yeah. I am the fourth generation of turn of the century industrialist wealth. My great grandfather made a great fortune in animal feed and antibiotics for livestock. But he built the university and the hospital in his hometown before he built his mansion. And that attitude towards giving back very much informed the way I feel about life and about our clients. It becomes a framework with which we help younger designers understand the economy that our design firm operates in. And in the luxury sphere. In general, because I think a young person entering design at the high end of the market in residential work can walk away with disbelief at the value system and the cost of things and worry about the social impact of that. And sometimes, if we stop to talk about the great philanthropy of the client they're working for and help them understand that while the way they spend money may be grand, the way they give it away might be even more meaningful.

[Tom Stringer]

What has turned out to be the key to understanding that client, to making that client feel comfortable? But what do you think it all boils down to?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

There's a couple things going on. One is the client always knows that we're acting in their best interest financially. From a design perspective, from a conflict resolution perspective, we're good problem solvers. And everyone in my organization knows that when a crisis arrives on a job site, whether it's a construction problem or a delay or problematic detail, we solve the problem first and then we worry about later, about who's going to pay for it, where the blame will be cast, who will accept responsibility. But we keep the project moving forward and we solve the problem. And that's very powerful both in moving projects forward and in winning clients allegiance. And so I think ultimately it's a focus on the long term that brings people back and also that we make it easy. We make it easy and we try to make it fun. And by that I mean I try pretty carefully to modulate how granular we get with clients so that they understand the myriad of details that we're managing as a part of the process. But we don't necessarily embroil them in them. Because I think honestly, the biggest impediment to a client who's just built a 10 or 12,000 square foot house building another one is exhaustion from building the first one.

[Tom Stringer]

Yeah, no, no, it makes sense. I want to come back to employee retention and I want to talk to this elaborate array of employee benefits that you've experimented with and in many cases instituted for the firm. From sabbaticals to professional coaching and a.

[Dennis Scully]

Lot of different things.

[Tom Stringer]

Tell me.

[Dennis Scully]

Did you try different things.

[Tom Stringer]

Over the years and sort of found what meant the most to people? Or tell me how you began to think about these benefits that you wanted to bring to people to get them to stay.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I don't think we've ever rescinded a benefit that we implemented. We keep adding to the menu. Whether that's smart or not, history will tell. But it started off with the basics, insurance, vision, dental, and expanded to retirement 401k and it's expanded once again. I think five, four years ago, I made a decision that we needed to further expand the administrative side of our business. And I brought in my first coo and he's done an extraordinary job here in helping me really kind of maybe top out the level of expertise that we have in our business administration. We now have a COO and a controller and then accounts payable, receivable and then purchasing agents and that kind of stuff. But taking it kind of from a business manager who is managing a significant business up to a bigger team has been really beneficial. And it's also allowed now. I have somebody like Dan whose job is it is to really run the business of the business and to spend time dreaming up cool stuff that will inspire people to work here. Finding and retaining new associates has become very challenging. And so anyways, over the last five years we've been experimenting in adding other programs. The big bold thing was a sabbatical program. He charted out the cost of a one month sabbatical for all employees every five years after five years of service. And we just ask our employees to do something during the sabbatical that will benefit them professionally and hopefully by extension benefit the firm if that associate has recently been to Europe or done some great adventure travel. As an employee, they're a richer source of information. As a designer or an architect, they're more valuable to the client because they have a higher level, frankly, of just sophistication. And a young designer who's been to Paris is a better designer.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, whose fall introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines and Rifle Paper company plus newly added one of a kind rugs, pillows and wall art. Visit theloyrugs.com to see them all. That's L O L O I rugs.com and eloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show.

[Tom Stringer]

I'm curious how you ultimately land on the different benefits that you offer. I was thinking about you recently having a conversation with a designer who was talking to me about at her firm. They opened up the discussion to maternity leave. And it turned out that most people said, well, maternity leave doesn't really apply to me or isn't likely going to be a benefit for me, so that's less of a priority than maybe something else you could offer as a whole. I mean, do you test with the group what their interests or desires are or how do you think about the benefits that you ultimately end up offering?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

We do test drive the ideas of them, but pretty much they're generated by our executive team. And to a large degree, it's my COO and John and myself figuring this out. The three of us in the last two years have been working with an executive coach out of Washington D.C. and for the three of us, that experience was wildly transformative. I did it because I was curious about finding my blind spots. But it led me also to understand that post Covid with a burst of new hires, that there was an opportunity for our culture to start sliding. And I wanted to be really willful about teaching essentially a new generation of designers and architects about the firm and what we stood for and our values. And so with my coach, I we went about designing a program called At Our Best, which was really about striving to create the most positive workplace possible for our employees. And it sounds like a lot of navel gazing, but it was actually really, really beneficial. I needed to understand where they thought we were culture wise.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

In order to understand where I needed to get and what I needed to achieve. And then it spawned another employee benefit, which was this year's benefit is professional coaching for all employees.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, I mean, it sounds like it had a huge impact on you personally. Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it was actually I dec not only to continue executive coaching, but to go into therapy as a result. Probably the two best things I've ever done in my career.

[Tom Stringer]

And did you yourself? You talked about wanting to be aware of your blind spots. Did you discover blind spots? Was it helpful to you? Oh, my goodness. I didn't realize I was saying this and you were hearing that. I mean, did that.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Of course, if I didn't come out with a list of things I could improve on, it wouldn't be a very genuine exercise.

[Tom Stringer]

Yeah, but you did, and it was really meaningful from that.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Yeah. It has changed the kind of boss I am. I think it's made me more compassionate. And I thought I was a compassionate person going into it. You know, we all think we're one.

[Tom Stringer]

Of course, we all think we're one way.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I still think I'm young too.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, to that point. I mean, we've talked about succession and you talked in the beginning of this conversation about wanting to build a firm that could outlast you. We haven't been terribly successful in this industry building firms that can last past the person's name on the door and the early founders. And I'd be curious to Know your thoughts as to why you think we're not better at that, and then tell me how you're thinking about it for yourself.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Well, my gross generalization is that we think about it too late, that five years before the end of a career or the targeted retirement date, a designer finally says, holy moly, what am I going to do with my clients? And slapping that second name on the door, I think requires more trajectory to make it meaningful. And that's where we're going. We rebranded to Tom stringer design partners 10 years ago, and that coincided with me taking on my first partner, who was my senior designer. It's been a pretty smooth transition with John. And then this year we took a different approach towards our third partner, Kruti Zaveri, who's our studio lead and kind of the glue in our organization. She has both business degrees and design degrees and is kind of the wizard behind the scenes. But we created a partnership path for Kruti because we just felt like she had the administrative brainpower to power the organization forward into the next generation in our firm. So now I have two partners, which is very exciting, obviously. I think I felt really good about the partnership with John when I think it was the day after his partnership party, he said to me, I realize now that I'm a partner, that my first job is to create the next partner, which is a pretty good thing to have your first partner be able to elucidate on the morning after.

[Tom Stringer]

And my recollection is you were. You were going to be sort of pulling away a few years back, and then Covid came, right. And you had to sort of dial back in a little bit more.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I did again, kind of with the aforementioned post Covid hiring spree that we went through, I found it necessary to reengage at a more detailed and creative level than I had in the past few years, because I think it takes. Unfortunately, it takes a hideously long time for a new associate to really digest and then be able to reiterate the point of view of the firm. And that takes time for a designer to be confident. And we make them understand that everybody who works here is potentially a partner in the future.

[Tom Stringer]

I'm curious to hear about the design scene in Chicago and does the Merchandise mart play a big role role in your work in the way that perhaps it might have years ago? Are people much more online? Do I remember you having some connection to Studio Designer and being an investor or a supporter of that software? And tell me about that.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I mean, Chicago has such a great design Scene and actually a great design community. The designers and architects here, I think, really do seek community in a way that might even be different than other places. Certainly when I started in design in Chicago 30 years ago, the Merchandise Mart was certainly the bedrock of that community and the hub of everything. Design and decorating and technology has obviously changed all of that. It's still a very important resource for the community, but for my own staff as well. As our business has changed, its direct importance to us has lessened because our sourcing is now from such a wide net. It goes far beyond what the mart offers. And so much of it is done at their desks, which sometimes galls an old guy like me who says, like, how about a trip to the mart?

[Tom Stringer]

Yeah, how about getting out of the office and going, we're having a hard.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Time finding exactly the right shade of green. How about you go to the Mart and don't come back until you find it, because that's the way it actually gets done. But going to websites and checking boxes and having the samples show up the next day is in itself a remarkable advent and a boon to how we do business. Might not be as accurate when you're trying to match a color, but that'll probably change too in no time. So I see the advent of technology just really changing our landscape. And it's the reason why I was actually the first investor in Studio Designer. So I'm one of the lead investors and I sit on the board of directors for Studio and my office beta tests, a lot of the software development. So there's some really great tools coming to market through that. The bigger thing, I think, going on in the industry, and I think you ran an article last week about acquisition. Design Manager had exactly two different companies acquired Design Spec and Logic Design Systems.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

And Studio Designer in the last year has purchased my DOMA and design docs. And I think what those. This consolidation in that sector of the design industry in the software side might end up really creating some interesting institutional level change in the design industry. If there's one thing I would change about the way the design industry works today, it would be to revolutionize manufacturing and to give the small companies, generally small companies that produce the goods that we thrive on. The artisanal workshops, the small manufacturers of furniture, the fabric and carpet weavers, would give them access to big data so that they can understand trends in the industry and can predict business cycles the way really big business is able to. And I think what people don't necessarily focus on is that when an organization like Studio Designer starts looking at the aggregated data of 20,000 users, they're actually able to start looking at business trends. Is purchasing surging? Is it falling off? We could potentially expand that to look at color trends for the industry. We could look at. We could ultimately say again in an aggregated data kind of sense to a subscriber on the manufacturer side. That frame that you introduced at High Point is getting quoted like crazy. You might want to increase your order for those frames initially. But I think there's an opportunity for these software suites to connect not just designers to manufacturers, but also connect the pieces within the industry. So that, let's say the tradition is a manufacturer of a sofa doesn't start making the frame for the sofa until the fabric has arrived. But if we could connect the fabric vendor and the upholstery vendor to reassure them that the fabric was in stock and on its way, we could jumpstart the production cycle and we could cut the production cycle. Because 20 weeks is an absurd amount of time to build a sofa.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

By anybody's standards, it is indefensible. We're like the last manufacturing sector on earth to modernize.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, and do clients express that to you?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Do. When you tell them that they're captains of industry.

[Tom Stringer]

Right.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

And they understand. And I think we have to present this as artisanal and that patience is a virtue and that quality takes time and that you can't rush perfection and all those platitudes. But the reality is, we're just damn inefficient.

[Dennis Scully]

But do you think.

[Tom Stringer]

I mean, so. So often built into that 20 weeks is you've got to get online with all the other people that are in front of you that want sofa made. Right. And so it's not just that the fabric's not there, it's also they're a small shop, and they can only do so much.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

But a small shop with access to big data is not such a small shop if they are able to navigate the world around them in a more effective way. Yes. I think we can modernize even small shops by giving them access to predictive data.

[Tom Stringer]

So that's what you think could ultimately be so powerful about what, say, Studio Designer could be?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Absolutely. It's not Big Brother peering in at your work, but it is Big Brother collecting aggregated data and understanding what's going on in the industry. You know, even the smallest cabinet maker could ultimately gain benefit from understanding how many people are looking at their work. Right. If you can start tying all these things together, whether it's Data from visitors to websites to the number of times an image is copied and pasted from a website and put into a designer's gallery or into an RFQ or request for quote, would let us know not necessarily that that designer is purchasing it, but that they're looking at that item. And then I think you can take a data scientist, can distill that down to some predictive data that, you know, how sure are we that when a designer clicks on that sofa on a Holly Hunt website and drags it into a presentation, how often does that yield an order? And in that, there's knowledge to be gained from the manufacturer side. So I think there's real opportunity in predictive data and in artificial intelligence for revolutionizing the way we do business.

[Tom Stringer]

Is the ability to complete a transaction through these programs significant? Does that need to happen for one of these to. To win out in the end, do you think?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I think it's a winner because it simplifies the administrative work for a designer. I think it's probably even more important for a small design firm where people are wearing many hats. Somebody's got a proposal, gets approved, and somebody's got to collect the money and then has to write a bazillion purchase orders and then has to distribute all the money. That's check writing. And that's such a giant time suck. You know, honestly, if the. If the money can flow in from the client to the firm and then outflow from ultimately from the firm to the vendors, and all that is done electronically, it's done with less risk of fraud, and it's done far more efficiently and far more quickly. What if that shaves in itself two weeks off of the delivery time of a sofa? Right. Because we're waiting for checks to arrive in the mail, waiting for checks to clear, then sending paper purchase orders with a check. It just seems. It's insane. I can order $400 worth of groceries in 15 minutes and have them delivered in a half an hour. Look at the client perspective. They can do that. And then I go to my designer and they need 20 weeks to build a sofa. And then designers and architects turn around and tell a client to build a great house. They need four or five years. A young client is like, what, five years from now? I won't be the same person. I won't even want that.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, exactly. And isn't that really the risk?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

It is. Yes, it is the risk. Especially with the portability of jobs today.

[Tom Stringer]

Well. And do you feel. I mean, I think I. I sent you a note asking you to think about this idea of what is holding us back somewhat as an industry, and why doesn't everyone want to hire an interior designer? I mean, do you think that these things that we've just been talking about trying to explain to someone that a sofa takes 20 weeks, or that a house in Malibu could take five years and cost many more millions of dollars than you would probably imagine? I mean, is that part of what makes this industry seem challenging to clients who aren't familiar?

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I think that's a huge part of it. There's two things there. The time commitment, building a great home, and then separately, the time commitment to work with an interior designer is another thing. And both of those are lengthy, involved processes, and they coexist with a current kind of Wayfair mentality where I can order a sofa, albeit a cheap one, and I can have it next week, and then there's everything in between. But I think that the frame of reference with which a new, especially young client comes to this process is really. It's a split screen. Which one is more attractive? Right. Instant gratification or delayed gratification? And I think that the process of building a home or the process of building custom furniture, it's expensive, it's daunting, time consuming, and I think it gets in our way. I think that it's unfortunate, but the reputation of designers is we live in a luxury industry, we operate in a luxury sphere, and then we are perceived as being luxuries, as advocates and as consultants. And I think it's actually in some ways the opposite. I would think the tighter my budget, the more accurate, the better design response I'd want to craft. And that I, from my perspective, obviously from the inside, I'd want to put a proportionate amount into good design advice to make sure my smaller budget was well spent. But in order to start thinking those terms, our industry needs to understand the value of data.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, that sounds like that could make a huge impact. And you're so right. I mean, I think the lead times, the cost of a lot of what we do in our industry is daunting for some people, as we've talked about, but also just how much darn time it takes to do what you do. And that is hard, and I think so often is part of what's holding people. People back. Tom, there's so much more that I want to discuss with you, but we have been talking for far too long, sir.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

Oh, my gosh, you've.

[Tom Stringer]

Right, you've got a firm to run. And. And I have kept you there. There were more things I wanted to get to, but it's going to have to be the part two of our interview.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

I would welcome this. This is fun.

[Tom Stringer]

Well, this, this has been so great and you're, you're so kind to make the time and it's been such a wonderful conversation.

[Unnamed Interviewee]

It's been a pleasure. Great to be with you.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us.

[Tom Stringer]

[e-mail] where you can sign up for.

[Dennis Scully]

Our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're.

[Tom Stringer]

Enjoying these conversations, please leave us a.

[Dennis Scully]

Review on Apple Podcasts.

[Tom Stringer]

It helps others to discover the show.

[Dennis Scully]

This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus.

[Tom Stringer]

And edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.