Business Wars: Gap's Revival | Back in Blue | Episode 2

Podcast: Business Wars (Wondery)
Host: David Brown
Air Date: November 12, 2025

Overview:

This episode, “Back in Blue,” chronicles Gap’s recent effort to regain cultural relevance and financial stability after years of decline. With Richard Dickson—a proven turnaround specialist most famous for resurrecting Barbie—now at the helm, Gap grapples with its core identity, wrestles with operational details, pursues high-fashion credibility, and ultimately orchestrates a comeback that culminates in viral ad success and renewed industry admiration. Yet, new threats loom on the horizon.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crisis Point: Gap’s Identity in Peril

• [00:09] Staff Meeting, Fall 2023:

  • Richard Dickson examines Gap’s troubled website, lamenting its overwhelming focus on promotions and steep discounts.
  • Quote ([00:24]):

    “This doesn’t feel like a brand. It feels like a flea market.” — Richard Dickson

  • Dickson identifies the loss of brand narrative as central to Gap’s woes; promotions have replaced emotion and identity.

• Dickson’s Wake-Up Call:

  • Recounts his prior success with Barbie, emphasizing the importance of brand purpose and narrative reinvention:
    • Barbie succeeded not by clinging to the past, but by evolving her story to fit the times.
  • Key insight: Rediscovering and redefining purpose is crucial for an iconic brand’s survival.

2. Confronting Harsh Truths: The Need for a New Narrative

• [07:51] All-Hands Meeting:

  • Dickson details the company’s dramatic sales declines: from $7.3B to $3.3B in 20 years, significant job cuts, and widespread store closures.
  • Gap’s story has become defined by bad news—this needs to change.

• Shifting Mindsets:

  • Dickson:

    “A good story turns random efforts into a tangible mission. And you know, people will follow a story long before they’ll follow a spreadsheet.” ([09:44])

  • Nostalgia is a double-edged sword; successful revival means honoring the past while appealing to modern audiences.

3. Creative Gamble: Quality and High Fashion

• [13:00] The Linen Line Decision:

  • In the design studio, Dickson recognizes the value in a new line of well-made linen clothing.
  • He sees this as a remedy for Gap’s recent reputation for “flimsy goods” and gives the green light for a linen-focused spring collection.

• Empowering Designers:

  • Unlike predecessors who prioritized data over design, Dickson bets on creativity:

    “One bold product can wake up a whole company and its customers. It tells the world, this is who we are now.”

  • A departure from “number crunchers, not creatives.”

4. The Zac Posen Coup: High Fashion for the Masses

• [15:17] New York, October 2023 — Lunch with Zac Posen:
  • Dickson persuades star designer Zac Posen to join as creative director, aiming to inject runway energy into Gap’s mall-basics DNA.
  • The hire is bold and risky since Posen is known for haute couture, not mass-market basics.
  • Drawing on Gap’s legacy of celebrities-in-khakis, Dickson’s vision is to create “red carpet moments” that are accessible and fresh.

5. Bridging the Old and the New: Mission and Purpose

• [20:05] Business of Fashion Conference:
  • Dickson articulates the contemporary “gaps” to be bridged—sustainability, diversity, digital engagement:

    “To be able to have a conversation from a brand that was defined around bridging the gap from a purpose perspective, there could be nothing more inspiring than taking that cue and figuring out how to create that cultural conversation today.” — Richard Dickson ([20:05])

6. Revival in Action: Viral Ads and Red Carpet Buzz

• [21:45] "Linen Moves" Campaign, Spring 2024:

  • Gap’s linen collection goes viral with a campaign inspired by Jungle’s “Back on 74” music video, starring Tyla.
  • Over 100M views online signal a hit with younger generations.

• [24:52] Red Carpet Return, May 2024 (Met Gala):

  • Zac Posen and Divine Joy Randolph debut a stunning Gap denim gown at the Met Gala.
  • Posen:

    “I work at Gap Inc. And I was looking at the bay, the changing of the colors and the blues, and I thought, what fabric we use the most at Gap Inc. And it’s denim, so related to water and indigo as a flower. ... I got to celebrate her.” ([25:33])

  • The moment generates major press and is reminiscent of Sharon Stone’s iconic Gap Oscars turtleneck.

• Anne Hathaway Follow-up:

  • Hathaway wears a Posen-designed Gap dress in Rome; limited editions sell out within hours.

7. The Hype Machine: Scarcity and Demand

• “FOMO” Play:
  • Quote ([27:11]):

    “Scarcity changes the conversation. Suddenly it’s not ‘should I buy this?’ But will there be any left? The FOMO factor. ... Selling out of something isn’t just money in the bank. It sends a message. It says the brand is back in demand.”

8. Fixing Operations: Little Details Matter

• [28:18] Mystery-Shopper CEO:
  • Dixon struggles to buy a hoodie from Gap stores, exposing operational failures (hold times, lack of inventory, inflexible policies).
  • Emphasizes to his team the necessity of empowering staff and perfecting basics:

    • "Decisions made in conference rooms tying the hands of the people actually running the stores. ... If Gap's going to recapture its relevance ... it has to get all the small things right."

9. Financial Success — and New Threats

• [30:33] Stunning Earnings, May 2024:

  • All four Gap brands report sales gains; inventory is down 15%; stock jumps 20%.
  • Dickson celebrates cautiously:

    “We’re taking a very quick victory lap. But it’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon.” ([31:36])

• Changing the Ticker Symbol:

  • Gap officially changes its stock ticker from “GPS” to “GAP,” symbolizing a revived identity.

10. The Tariff Crisis: Navigating Adversity

• [34:40] Looming Tariffs, Summer 2024:
  • The White House announces steep new tariffs on goods from core supplier nations.
  • Dickson reacts:

    “It’s all concerning, but I think it’s no different than any other year of complexity.” ([34:58])

  • Gap absorbs much of the costs rather than passing them on to shoppers, striving to maintain trust.

11. Culture Wars and the Denim Comeback

• Rivalry with American Eagle:

  • American Eagle launches a controversial “jeans/genes” ad with Sydney Sweeney, sparking backlash for narrow beauty ideals.

• Gap’s Response: Y2K Nostalgia and Inclusivity:

  • The “Build your own style with Gap” campaign stars multicultural group Katseye and generates 400 million online views.
  • Deliberately multiculti and individual, the ad’s message lands with young consumers.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Richard Dickson, on Purpose ([00:24]):

  “This doesn’t feel like a brand. It feels like a flea market.”

• On Storytelling ([09:44]):

  “A good story turns random efforts into a tangible mission. ... People will follow a story long before they’ll follow a spreadsheet.”

• Dickson, On Modern Gaps ([20:05]):

  "Just think about how many gaps we have to bridge ... sustainability, digital dialogue, race, ethnicity, diversity, inclusiveness."

• Zac Posen on Denim Gown Inspiration ([25:33]):

  “I thought, what fabric we use the most at Gap Inc.? And it's denim, so related to water and indigo as a flower. ... I got to celebrate her.”

• On Scarcity & Demand ([27:11]):

  “Scarcity changes the conversation. ... It says the brand is back in demand.”

• Dickson, On Leadership Amidst Crisis ([31:36]):

  “We’re taking a very quick victory lap. But it’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon.”

• Dickson, On What Gap Stands For ([35:31]):

  “We’re not defining your style—we provide you the style and the apparel for you to define your own. This is a brand that’s all about originality.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:09] – Richard Dickson’s first executive meeting and brand identity crisis.
• [07:51] – Company-wide meeting on sales decline and shift to narrative-first thinking.
• [13:00] – Linen line decision and the quality push in fashion.
• [15:17] – Zac Posen recruits for creative director, high-fashion for the masses.
• [20:05] – Dickson’s vision for modern relevance at Business of Fashion conference.
• [21:45] – “Linen Moves” ad campaign gets Gap trending online.
• [24:52] – Met Gala denim gown and the return of Gap on the red carpet.
• [26:59] – Anne Hathaway’s Gap dress and limited-edition sales surge.
• [28:18] – Operational issues uncovered in Gap’s stores.
• [30:33] – Earnings report: financial turnaround and new ticker symbol.
• [34:40] – Trade war/tariff challenge.
• [35:31] – Refined brand purpose and public messaging.
• [39:40] – Response to American Eagle's controversial ad; Gap’s own inclusive viral ad.

Conclusion

Gap’s resurgence is driven as much by rediscovering its purpose as by product or publicity stunts. Dickson’s tenure is characterized by a willingness to confront tough truths, empower creatives, court pop culture relevance, and endure operational and external shocks. The push for inclusivity, quality, and authenticity—not just nostalgia—places Gap in the cultural conversation once again, even as new challenges await.

For listeners seeking an inside look at how legacy brands engineer comebacks and navigate shifting markets, this episode delivers essential lessons in leadership, storytelling, and the constant reinvention required to stay in style.