What Killed Red Lobster? | Chain Reaction | 3

Summary

Business Wars Episode Summary: "What Killed Red Lobster? | Chain Reaction | 3"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Business Wars
• Host/Author: Wondery, hosted by David Brown
• Episode: What Killed Red Lobster? | Chain Reaction | 3
• Release Date: March 13, 2025
• Description: Business Wars delves into the battles between major companies, exploring what drives their successes and failures. In this episode, the focus is on Red Lobster—a beloved chain restaurant facing significant challenges. Through expert interviews and insightful analysis, the episode examines the factors leading to Red Lobster's struggles and its efforts to revive its brand.

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Introduction: The Resurgence of Chain Restaurants

David Brown opens the episode by reflecting on the enduring appeal of chain restaurants, such as Olive Garden and Chili's. He highlights how these establishments offer consistency, nostalgia, and value, which have contributed to their recent resurgence despite prior threats of decline during economic downturns like the 2008 recession and the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Chain restaurants have kind of become a focus or an interest of mine in the last couple of years because I think there's been some real changes.”
— Amy McCarthy [04:18]

Interview with Amy McCarthy: Eater's Insights on Chain Restaurants

Amy McCarthy, a reporter for Eater, joins David Brown to discuss the renewed popularity of chain restaurants. She attributes this renaissance to several factors:

• Cultural Relevance: Chains like Olive Garden and Chili's have remained culturally relevant by adapting promotions and maintaining consistent quality. For instance, Chili's "2 for $25" promotion appeals to younger customers seeking affordable dining options.

“They have opened multiple locations. Scale gives you opportunity, and it gives you the ability to cut your costs.”
— Amy McCarthy [12:04]

• Nostalgia and Reliability: Many patrons, especially Millennials and Gen Z, seek the comfort and reliability that chain restaurants provide. Amy emphasizes that these establishments offer a dependable dining experience, which is particularly appealing for younger generations dealing with limited budgets and suppressed wages.

“I think people feel they're spending so much money in restaurants and maybe not getting what they feel like they should get.”
— Amy McCarthy [09:23]

The Decline of Red Lobster: Endless Shrimp Promotion Misstep

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Red Lobster's troubled strategy with the "Endless Shrimp" promotion. Initially a successful limited-time offer, Red Lobster's decision to extend this promotion year-round proved detrimental.

• Operational Challenges: The endless shrimp promotion led to overworked staff and compromised service quality, as servers struggled to fulfill the high demand for shrimp while maintaining profitability.

“When you're giving away for free, people begin to wonder about the quality.”
— Amy McCarthy [24:07]

• Brand Perception: Consistently offering free shrimp diluted the perceived value of Red Lobster's offerings, causing customers to question the quality of their seafood.

• Missed Target Audience: The promotion alienated customers seeking a premium dining experience, turning Red Lobster into a "place where nobody's gonna make me feel like I can't pronounce the name of the wine."

“Red Lobster has always been a seafood restaurant for people who don't live near amazing seafood restaurants.”
— Amy McCarthy [19:21]

Red Lobster's Efforts to Revive the Brand

Under new leadership, Red Lobster has initiated several strategies to recover from its decline:

• Mobile Loyalty Programs: Implementing mobile loyalty systems to reward regular customers and gather data on dining preferences.

“They are finally getting on board with sort of mobile loyalty, getting people who come in regularly and order the same things to earn points.”
— Amy McCarthy [25:24]

• Emphasizing Freshness: Red Lobster is promoting the freshness of its food, such as baking cheddar bay biscuits every 15 minutes, to combat the perception of relying on microwaved meals.

• Restaurant Updates: Remodeling locations and updating menus to attract both nostalgic patrons and new customers seeking quality seafood.

Review Segment: Frozen Red Lobster Offerings with Jordan Myrick

Jordan Myrick, a writer for Sporked, joins the episode to evaluate Red Lobster's frozen grocery store products, including parmesan-crusted garlic and herb stuffed shrimp and cheddar bay biscuits.

• Preparation and Taste: Jordan prepares the stuffed shrimp using an air fryer and finds them to be crunchy, creamy, and flavorful, awarding them 8 sporks out of 10.

“It's so creamy and rich. They're really crunchy. I think it's pretty good.”
— Jordan Myrick [36:10]

• Cheddar Bay Biscuits: The frozen biscuits received a higher rating of 9 to 9.5 sporks. Jordan appreciates their ease of preparation, taste similarity to the restaurant version, and overall quality.

“The cheddar bay biscuits are baked every 15 minutes. Like, hey, we are really trying to turn around from feeling like a place where we just throw your shrimp and biscuits in the microwave.”
— Amy McCarthy [26:13]

• Accessibility: Jordan highlights that while frozen offerings are convenient, they may not fully replicate the in-restaurant experience but serve as an effective way for Red Lobster to maintain brand presence in consumers' homes.

Lessons Learned and Future Outlook

Amy McCarthy extrapolates lessons from Red Lobster's experience that other chain restaurants can adopt:

• Strategic Promotions: Promotions should be limited and strategically timed to create value without undermining profitability or brand quality.

• Adaptability: Chains must continuously evolve—updating menus, remodeling locations, and embracing technology to stay relevant.

• Data Utilization: Leveraging customer data through loyalty programs and apps to tailor offerings and enhance the dining experience.

“If we want to be relevant, we can't just rely on people's 20-year-old nostalgia for us.”
— Amy McCarthy [27:48]

Conclusion: Red Lobster's Path Forward

The episode concludes with optimism about Red Lobster's ability to recover by addressing past mistakes and implementing new strategies. Amy and Jordan emphasize the importance of maintaining quality, leveraging nostalgia, and adapting to modern consumer demands to ensure the chain's longevity.

“Red Lobster promises something similar to what you get in the restaurant and what you've known and loved for years.”
— Jordan Myrick [38:00]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “Chain restaurants have kind of become a focus or an interest of mine in the last couple of years because I think there's been some real changes.”
  — Amy McCarthy [04:18]

• “When you're giving away for free, people begin to wonder about the quality.”
  — Amy McCarthy [24:07]

• “They are finally getting on board with sort of mobile loyalty, getting people who come in regularly and order the same things to earn points.”
  — Amy McCarthy [25:24]

• “The cheddar bay biscuits are baked every 15 minutes. Like, hey, we are really trying to turn around from feeling like a place where we just throw your shrimp and biscuits in the microwave.”
  — Amy McCarthy [26:13]

• “If we want to be relevant, we can't just rely on people's 20-year-old nostalgia for us.”
  — Amy McCarthy [27:48]

• “Red Lobster promises something similar to what you get in the restaurant and what you've known and loved for years.”
  — Jordan Myrick [38:00]

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Final Thoughts:

"What Killed Red Lobster?" offers a comprehensive exploration of the challenges faced by a once-thriving chain restaurant and its strategies for revival. Through expert insights and hands-on product reviews, the episode provides valuable lessons on brand management, customer loyalty, and the importance of adaptability in the competitive restaurant industry. Whether you're a fan of Red Lobster or interested in the dynamics of chain restaurants, this episode delivers an engaging and informative narrative on business battles that shape our dining experiences.

Transcript

[David Brown]

Wondery subscribers can binge all episodes of business wars TikTok versus the USA early and ad free right now. Join Wondere in the Wondere app or on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm David Brown and this is Business Wars. Think about your favorite chain restaurant. What keeps you going back? Is it the meal deals? Always knowing your signature order? An endless shrimp promotion? Perhaps? And what about the nostalgia of it all? Maybe setting foot into a Red Lobster or a Chili's brings you back to another era, one where high schoolers with nowhere else to go could splurge on half price apps after 9pm and birthdays could be celebrated with a free dessert with the wait staff shouting out the proprietary birthday cheer.

[Amy McCarthy]

I don't know what I've been told, someone here is getting old.

[David Brown]

But during the 2008 recession and again during the pandemic, it seemed like chain restaurants and their gimmicky goodness were in danger of disappearing altogether. Plus, after 40 years in operation, your average Olive Garden looked a lot less exciting than the newer independent places. Well, now the tides have shifted. You walk into that same Olive Garden on a Saturday night, and more often than not, you could be waiting almost an hour for a table. There's been a chain of you will and restaurants are figuring out how to capitalize on this newfound popularity. Joining us today is Amy McCarthy, a reporter for Eater who covers the intersection of casual dining, pop culture and online trends. She's helping us understand why chains are so popular again and how they can sustain it. Plus, she'll add her own theories about where Red Lobster went wrong and what they're doing now to get out of hot water. Later, we'll hear from Jordan Myrick, a writer for the website Sport, where they rank and review all the buzziest new products showing up on grocery store shelves. Jordan has uncovered the best frozen raviolis, fried chicken, even cauliflower crust pizzas. Now they're helping us bite into Red Lobster's frozen selections to determine if cheddar bay biscuits can taste just as good at home while or if some delicacies are best enjoyed in person. All that's coming up. You know, managing your workforce can be exhausting. Are you tired of a costly and lengthy hiring process? Well, you can simplify and speed up your recruitment with one connection the experts at Express employment professionals reduce time to hire, cut down on interviews and lower your recruitment costs. Just visit expresspros.com today. Express is more efficient than hiring on your own. Check out ExpressPros.com to see how Express employment professionals can take care of Your hiring. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You've got to be kidding. It's something you might say when your small business has a problem, but that won't get you the help your business needs. What you should really say is something that can help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Their agents are ready to help you with your claim, to help you get back in business on the phone or in person, your State Farm agent is there to help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Amy McCarthy, welcome to Business Wars.

[Amy McCarthy]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

[David Brown]

It's great to have you. Tell me a little bit about your time at iter. How did you get involved on this particular beef? Tell me what you cover.

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah, so I cover a wide range of things at iter. Everything from sort of viral online trends to policy and labor. And chain restaurants have kind of become a focus or an interest of mine in the last couple of years because I think there's been some real changes. I think for a while, it seemed like the chains were dinosaurs that were, you know, kind of headed for the meteor. And now that the tide seems to.

[David Brown]

Be turning, who would you put in that top spot when it comes to the renaissance of chain restaurants?

[Amy McCarthy]

Ooh, that's a tough one. I think both Olive Garden and Chili's have done really, really well in the last five to seven years. I think the numbers bear that out, but I also think they've done a lot culturally to stay relevant, to make people interested in them. But, you know, I noticed maybe, like, five years ago that Chili's started doing the 2 for 25 promotion. You could get a meal for two people for 25 bucks. And, you know, when you're in your 20s and you're broke, you can't really do better than that for a date night. I have a lot of affinity for Chili's.

[David Brown]

Big Chili's fan, what's your favorite thing at Chili's?

[Amy McCarthy]

Well, you know, right now it is the triple dipper, which is their appetizer sampler thing. You can pick three different things. And, you know, you just go there with a friend, you get a margarita, and you sit over this beautiful triple dipper and eat carbs dipped in ranch dressing while you complain about, you know, the state of the world. It's great.

[David Brown]

I totally, you know. And I'll tell you what I loved from Chili's. And they don't have it on their menu anymore. I can remember being in Annapolis, Maryland, and having my first trio of tacos. Like, not the hard Shell tacos, but soft tacos. It was, I thought, sublime. And it used to have this wonderful salsa. And when I go now, I'm kind of disappointed that they don't have that stuff. And I sort of wonder, when it comes to chain restaurants, a lot of people get hooked on. On these menu items that they keep coming back for, and when they're gone, that can really heard a chain restaurant.

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. The paradise pie at Chili's, I was like, this cookie dessert. I still think about it. They haven't had it on the menu in, like, probably 15 years or better. But it. It is very much missed in my heart. But I think that that's very connected to, you know, just nostalgia and the way that, you know, if you had a really happy childhood, you want to have things from your childhood. You want to have the Sunday dinner at Olive Garden with the big bowl of salad on the table and the breadsticks that you're, like, fighting your brother and s. And whether or not it was the best food you ever had in your life, it was still, like, pretty meaningful to you.

[David Brown]

Yeah, yeah. And it kind of takes the place of comfort food. I mean, some of these chain restaurants took the place of that, I think.

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah, I think so. You know, a lot of people transition from having Sunday dinner at grandma's house to have a, you know, meeting after church at Applebee's or going to Chili's. And when you have that sort of association with it over the years, it's kind of impossible to not crave it. You know, sometimes I just wake up and I'm like, man, you know, what I would really go for right now is a cheddar bay biscuit from Red Lobster.

[David Brown]

They're fishing for millennials, aren't they?

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. As a millennial, we took a lot of blame for these chains kind of suffering financially. The millennials killed chain restaurants thing was a trope for a while.

[David Brown]

I've heard that. Yeah.

[Amy McCarthy]

And I think to some extent, that was true. I think people my age and people a little older than me did get tired of going to just, like, mediocre restaurants. And these independent restaurants with their cool chefs and their trendy ingredients were much more appealing. And I think as millennials financial situation has shifted, that interest and consistency is really high. They may not think that Olive Garden is the best restaurant they've ever been to in their life, but they know when they go and they get the chicken gnocchi soup, it's going to taste like it does every other time that they come. That, you know, because it is exactly the same that the. They're going to leave the chocolate mints on the table when you leave, you can get your salad for the next day. You know, I think Olive Garden has really met people where they are, and I think that's how they've been able to maintain that loyalty.

[David Brown]

Have you heard of this thing called Chain Fest in Los Angeles?

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. I was so jealous I could not go. Last year, we're throwing it Food Festival.

[David Brown]

For thousands, the world's first celebration of the chain restaurants we love. This was started by BJ Novak, who I think was in the office, right?

[Amy McCarthy]

Yes.

[David Brown]

And this is back in 2023 when he started this. And this brings together chains from all over the country, like Red Robin, Domino's, kfc. I think the lobster is part of this. Chili's your favorite. Very trendy, with a lot of celebrities. That doesn't seem to square in my own head that a chain restaurant would be trendy. What's going on?

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah, I think. I really do think there is a little bit of a cultural backlash to the independent restaurant era. I think people are a little burned by that feeling of going to dinner with a spouse, you know, spending with a date, spending $200 on a bunch of little bites of crudo and little, you know, whatever, and then walking out of the restaurant and looking at their partner and saying, okay, do you want to go to Taco Bell? Because they're so hungry. You know, I think there has been a very. I think there has been a very, like, palpable response to that. I think people feel like they are spending so much money in restaurants and maybe not getting what they feel like they should get.

[David Brown]

You know, I totally get that, but I almost feel like there's pushback against the pretentiousness and kind of wanting something that's more dependable, maybe more reliable. Maybe something that, you know is going to fill you up and it's going to taste pretty good at the same time.

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah. I think you go to these restaurants and, you know, maybe you have a pretty good meal, but, like, you know, how many different ways can we have glazed Brussels sprouts or blistered shishito peppers? And, you know, I think people feel they're just like, okay, I'm gonna go to Olive Garden, where nobody's gonna make me feel like an. I can't. Sorry if I can't pronounce the name of the wine.

[David Brown]

Yeah.

[Amy McCarthy]

Or, you know, I'm gonna feel welcome in a sense that maybe I don't in a place that I don't feel cool.

[David Brown]

Totally get that. Totally get that. We've been talking millennials. What do you think about Gen Z? Are they getting into this chain restau?

[Amy McCarthy]

Absolutely, they are. I'm working on a different piece about fast food right now. The kids love fast food chains. They love their Taco Bell. They love their Chipotle. And a lot of things have changed in restaurants since millennials were, you know, in their early 20s. And now I think young people have pretty limited dining budgets. The wages are suppressed, and people aren't making as much money as they were, you know, 15 or 20 years ago. Things cost more. And so I think when you're working within that limited budget, you want it to hit every single time. You don't want to go try new things.

[David Brown]

Yep, I totally, totally get that. You know, but I wonder if, taken together, the millennials and Gen Z, if it'll be enough to save the chain restaurants. I mean, is. Are they here to stay?

[Amy McCarthy]

Well, there will certainly be some chains that. That go away. You know, places that. Yeah, I think there will be places that survive, and there will be winners and losers. I think we're actually going to see the opposite. I think we're going to see more chain ific, something that's already happening in independent restaurants. I will plug here Eater.com's package on the chainification of America last year that we did last year, we looked at it from a lot of different lenses. And, you know, even independent restaurants, the. The Carbones in New York and the Nobus, those are chains. Now, chains are a very effective business model for the restaurant industry. It's very difficult for one restaurant to make money. It's easier when you have 10 that are, you know, obviously well funded. But scale gives you opportunity, and it gives you the ability to cut your costs to, you know, kind of spread your administrative expenses around. And we've seen that. We've seen that with the most successful restaurant businesses in this country that they have opened multiple locations.

[David Brown]

Let's play a game here. I know that if there were only one chain restaurant, that I would lose it if it disappeared. I know what that restaurant would be. For me, it would be Red Robin. Because I do associate so many memories with Red Robin so many times taking the kids to the Robin. And. And honestly, I've had my heart broken twice. Twice have Red Robin restaurants that have, you know, been just a go to have closed. Right? And so I'm really, you know, I'm really kind of sensitive around this one. If there is only one chain restaurant that you could eat at for the rest of your life. You know the one? I think I know the answer, by the way. Which one would you choose?

[Amy McCarthy]

You know, it is a little bit tough. You know, I think. God, such a good question. I think, are we counting fast food restaurants in this as well?

[David Brown]

Okay, we'll allow it. Yes.

[Amy McCarthy]

Do I have to give up McDonald's french fries forever in this scenario?

[David Brown]

I understand why you asked the question, but yeah, let's.

[Amy McCarthy]

I think about restaurants way too granularly. So I'm thinking, you know, are we talking fast food chain? Are we talking fast casual chain? Are we talking casual restaurants? So I have tears for each.

[David Brown]

I totally. I'll let you define it because I understand how difficult this must be, especially for someone who writes about this. What would you say? You just. You'd really miss it if it were gone?

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah, I mean, I guess at the end of the day, it is Chili's. You know, Chili's was one of two chain restaurants in the small town where I grew up. And it was kind of walk away for my high school. So it was a very cool thing to do to skip school and go to Chili's there and to sit in the booth.

[David Brown]

Right?

[Amy McCarthy]

I mean, that's part of it.

[David Brown]

Absolutely.

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. You sit there with your friends and you pull together your $11 and, you know, just torture a waitress. You just order water, you know, glasses of water and bowls of free chips, and you sit there for hours and linger. So, yeah, I think, and I think too, the fact that they serve booze there. I can't get a margarita at McDonald's.

[David Brown]

Amy McCarthy is a reporter for Eater, where she covers dining pop culture at all of your favorite chain restaurants. Let's take a quick break here. When we come back, we're going to be fishing for some answers on whether this wave of chain restaurant popularity is enough to revive Red Lobster. Stay with us. You know, it's funny. Sometimes self care looks like binge watching cooking shows in your PJs. And other times it's just making sure you're taking care of the basics. That's what liquid IV is for. It's a little daily ritual that makes hydration actually exciting. Let me tell you what makes it special. It's powered by Liv Hydra Science, a blend of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients. You just tear open a stick, pour it into water, and boom, you've got hydration that has three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drinks. I keep some sugar free liquid IV packets In my car console, white peach is my favorite. Just pull into a gas station, grab some bottled water, pour in some Liquid iv, and that feeling of constant thirst on the road just disappears. All you need is one stick, 16 ounces of water and it hydrates so much better than just water alone. So what's your ritual? Well, break the mold and own it. Treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and make sure to use code BW at checkout to get that 20% off discount. That's 20% off your first order with code bwiquidiv.com what makes a leader, it's not just about taking charge. It's about setting the standard. For those who approach life with passionate determination, there's the Range Rover Sport. Redefining sporting luxury, the Range Rover Sport combines dramatic modernity with distinctive character. Its well appointed cabin creates a sanctuary for every journey. Featuring active noise cancellation that filters out unwanted sound, plus optional PM2.5 filtration, reduces allergens and manages CO2 levels for enhanced wellness. Inside, you'll find optional 22 way adjustable heated and ventilated front seats with massage function bringing refined comfort to every drive. And with configurable cabin lighting, you can curate the perfect atmosphere for any moment. The Range Rover Sport where high achievement meets exhilarating performance. Build your Range Rover sport@range Rover.com US Sport. Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. Our guest is Amy McCarthy, a reporter for the online publication Eater, where she covers the intersection of pop culture dining and chain restaurants. I'm curious, how much of a thing was Red Lobster when you were coming up?

[Amy McCarthy]

Sure. So I grew up in a small town, population about 30,000, and Red Lobster was like a big deal. It was a thing you had to do when you went to a larger city. So my family, you know, sometimes we would, you know, on a Saturday if we were gonna go school clothes shopping or whatever, we would go to the Red Lobster in front of the mall in Sherman, Texas, which really wasn't much of a mal, but, you know, that was a treat. It was a thing that you looked forward to. My brother, who was about four years younger than me when he was a kid, he and his, like a truck full of his football buddies loaded up and went to, I believe this exact same Red Lobster in Sherman, Texas and like ate the restaurant out of shrimp. That was like their goal. That's what they wanted to be the.

[David Brown]

Shape of things to come.

[Amy McCarthy]

I think totally now when I think about that. You know, they were kind of the original scammers of the endless shrimp promotion.

[David Brown]

Talk about the vibe at Red Lobster. I guess they tried to update their restaurants at one point. Right. Is your memory of Red Lobster kind of more sort of upscale? What do you remember about Red Lobster?

[Amy McCarthy]

Sure. I mean, I think in my like 8 year old eyes, it was very fancy because they had lobster and, you know, cloth napkins or whatever.

[David Brown]

Right.

[Amy McCarthy]

But I think now, if I'm thinking about it, it was very coastal grandma, very, you know, plastic fish on the wall, lots of puns on signs. You know, it always was kind of a little cheesy.

[David Brown]

Yeah, yeah. You think that has worked against it? I mean, they've tried to update. You know, we talked about this in our series, how they tried to set up store in Ohio that kind of had a more rustic main seafood restaurant look, you know, and in a sense, it was upscale in a backhanded way, if you know what I'm saying. It would be the kind of place that if you were. If you had the money to go on a fancy vacation up to Maine or something, you might stop in at a local seafood place. And that was the vibe. They were kind of projecting, you know what I mean?

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. And I think, you know, I think that was their. That was the miscalculation, you know, Red Lobster, I think, has always been a seafood restaurant for people who don't live near amazing seafood restaurants.

[David Brown]

Yeah, you're in Ohio or something and you want some New England fish.

[Amy McCarthy]

Right. You know, and, you know, when you. Now there are just so many more, you know, thanks to shipping. And now you can have fish that was caught this morning in Alaska, you know, on your doorstep in Texas a day later. You know, the. The global shipping chain has changed that in a lot of ways. But I think for most people, their encounter with Red Lobster was in the suburbs, in a place that was totally landlocked, where lobster did feel like an exotic food, not something that your uncle gets off the boat because you live in Maine.

[David Brown]

You know, let's talk about why Red Lobster is such a big part of our culture. You know, I'm thinking about how rapper Flavor Flav bought everything on the menu when he heard about the bankruptcy. And then of course, there's Beyonce, who name checked the restaurant and her song formation. And you've also got celebrities like Chris Rock and Nicki Minaj who've said that they worked at Red Lobster once upon a time. What's going on here?

[Amy McCarthy]

Okay, not to get off on too far of a Tangent here, but fine dining used to mean different things to different people. Now we think of fine dining as going to, you know, a Michelin star restaurant or going to, you know, the hot, new, cool place in your city. But if you're from a small town, if you're from the suburbs or if you're from a poor area or whatever, none of those places are accessible to you. And so what's fancy to you is different. You know, for my family, like, I was perfectly middle class as a kid, but Red Lobster was like a fancy dinner to go out and for my parents to get cocktails and for, you know, my brother and I to get shrimp and steak or whatever. You know, that was like a. That was like a classy thing to do in the early 90s, you know, among a certain subset of people. And so I think that the reason it is this, like, cultural touchstone is because it was, at one point, a little bit aspirational. It was, you know, a nicer place. And that's also true for places like the Olive Garden. You know, people. People go on dates to the Olive Garden. Valentine's Day is one of the busiest nights of the year at Olive Garden.

[David Brown]

When that news broke that Red Lobster had filed for bankruptcy, I think it really disappointed. Really hit a lot of people. What about.

[Amy McCarthy]

I mean, I would have to say that I wasn't totally surprised, really, when it happened. Yeah, I mean, I just thought that Red Lobster had kind of had a rough decade prior. It felt very stagnant. You know, it felt like they weren't doing anything to. To make me want to go in there. Beyond my, you know, random, every five years nostalgia for a plate of.

[David Brown]

Wait a minute. You were. You weren't drawn in by the endless shrimp. I mean, that was all over TikTok, remember?

[Amy McCarthy]

Totally. And I think, you know, endless shrimp time is like amateur hour. You know, that's when. That's when, like, the worst customers in the world are in there. That's when people are just demanding these additional plates of shrimp. And, like, if that's not what you want, if you want, you know, I don't know, lobster pasta or whatever. Endless shrimp time is not the time to go there.

[David Brown]

Aha. You know, we were sort of thinking smart about this. You were thinking, I don't want to be around when everyone's stuffing their face with endless shrimp.

[Amy McCarthy]

Right. And I mean, every. I think everybody and Red Lobster itself has acknowledged it that, like, endless shrimp was a rough time for the restaurants because, like, the servers were all harried and running around and trying to get, you know, just plate upon plate of shrimp to people they weren't making any money because they were doing all this extra work for, you know, what was comparatively a pretty low ticket price compared to what, you know, it might have been without the promotion.

[David Brown]

Right.

[Amy McCarthy]

And, yeah, so I think that. I think it just sucked. You know, wasn't a. Wasn't a good time to go when everybody in the restaurant's, like, in a. Inhaling shrimp or running after people who want to inhale shrimp.

[David Brown]

Totally. But here's an interesting thing, though. Red Lobster had done this endless shrimp promotion. You know, like, each year, once each year, they would do this endless shrimp thing. And it worked so well when they were doing the promotion that they thought, hey, let's do this year round. Let's just make this a thing. Too much of a good thing, maybe. I mean, I'm just trying to understand why it would work as a kind of annual promotion, and yet it would seem to sink the ship, if you'll pardon the pun. When they started doing this full time.

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah, I mean, I think that was really the grand miscalculation of it all. I think people don't want endless shrimp all the time. And when it's not limited or it's not a short period of time, it's not special anymore. You can do it anytime. And I think, too, the new CEO at Red Lobster, who I think is really exciting and has some really interesting ideas, he said, when you're basically giving away for free, people begin to wonder about the quality.

[David Brown]

I'll say there's a brand impact, and, you know, when you're giving away free shrimp, people start to question the quality of the product.

[Amy McCarthy]

And I think that that was absolutely the case.

[David Brown]

Okay, if you go to Costco, I want. I'm not going to walk out that door until I get my dollar and a half hot dog. I mean, that's just right.

[Amy McCarthy]

Okay, so loss leaders have always played a role. Exactly in that.

[David Brown]

Exactly. So could they have done it differently? Was there a way they could have made this work?

[Amy McCarthy]

Absolutely. Like you said, the Costco hot dog, the rotisserie chicken, there are plenty of places who make a lot of money losing money on a couple of their products. And I think that trying to figure out how to give that promotion to consumers without totally screwing over your business, I think, is the interesting part of that calculus. First of all, you have to be making money to do a promotion in which you give away a significant amount of product. You have to be in a better financial situation. Than Red Lobster was when they decided to do endless shrimp year round. That just really felt like such a last ditch effort to save the ship. That was kind of sticking out of the air at a certain point.

[David Brown]

Yeah, I totally, totally take that point. You mentioned the new CEO at Red Lobster, Damola, Adam Malakin, and he's been walking back this endless shrimp promotion. What other changes have you picked up on in trying to revive the chain?

[Amy McCarthy]

They are finally getting on board with sort of mobile loyalty, getting people to who come in regularly and order the same things to earn points and sort of reward the people who are coming back while also informing the company of what those people are interested in. You know, I don't know how much Red Lobster can do to win back the people who are like, huh, I'm not going to that place. It's gross. But what they need to do is maintain the people who really, really love it if they want to stay around. Another thing I meant to mention that I think they've been trying to do is really reemphasize the freshness of their food. On their website, they note that the cheddar bay biscuits are baked every 15 minutes. Like, hey, we are really trying to turn around from feeling like a place where we just throw your shrimp and biscuits in the microwave.

[David Brown]

Yeah, Yeah. I wonder if there are lessons that other chain restaurants, since you have such an affinity for them, I wonder if there are lessons that they could learn from Red Lobster's fall and potential rise again. I mean, their story's not over.

[Amy McCarthy]

Yeah. And I think we've seen this kind of thing happen with other chains. Applebee's, maybe like eight to 10 years ago, they were giving away booze. You know, you could go to an Applebee's and get a Long island iced tea for a dollar. And now they still do those cocktail promotions. They're just a little more infrequent or they're a little more specialized. You know, it's not, you can't get these five drinks for a dollar at all times. You can get this drink for a dollar at happy hour or whatever. So all that to say you can't just give something away and expect for that to engender loyalty. You have to be strategic about how you do it. Ideally, from a restaurant perspective, you're collecting data in the process of giving away that free item. A lot of restaurants have apps now where that they use to collect information on what you order, how frequently you're visiting, and they can use that to make predictions about their business. I think a lot of chains would do well to realize that you can't just stay the same for a very long time, which I think is what Red Lobster did. You know, the restaurants weren't getting remodeled, the menu wasn't undergoing a lot of changes. They didn't adapt super quickly to the new world of takeout. There's a lot of lessons to be learned, I think, and I think there are chains that are learning those lessons and that are realizing like, oh, if we want to, if we want to be relevant, we can't just rely on people's 20 year old nostalgia for us.

[David Brown]

Amy McCarthy is a reporter for Eater, where she covers dining pop culture at all of your favorite chain restaurants. You can read her [e-mail] Amy, thanks so much for joining us on Business Wars.

[Amy McCarthy]

Thank you so much.

[David Brown]

Coming up, we're bringing Red Lobster home.

[Jordan Myrick]

Is this the best biscuit in the world? No, but that's not what we're looking for.

[David Brown]

Sporked host Jordan Myrick helps us put some of the chain's most iconic grocery store items to the test. Stay with us. Need care for ed, hair loss, skin care, or other common health concerns? Amazon one Medical pay per visit lets you quickly connect with a provider right from home. No insurance needed, no scheduling hassles, just straightforward, affordable health care when you want it. Start a virtual visit anytime 24 7. Their providers will create a personalized treatment plan and if medication is right for you, get fast free delivery through Amazon Pharmacy Prime. Members can even save up to 92% on ED medications compared to competitors. Quality care shouldn't be complicated or expensive. That's why they offer transparent pricing with a simple flat fee per visit. This is the kind of new thinking many folks have been hoping for. And with health care costs spiraling with, well, bottom line here you can get care and meds for less with Amazon. Head to Amazon.com bwom to learn more. A provider determines eligibility. Prices may vary. We've all been there sitting through another mind numbing presentation. You know the kind, tiny text you can barely read. Templates and slide transitions straight out of the 90s. But here's the thing. Your presentations don't have to put people to sleep. With Canva presentations, you can create something that actually keeps your audience engaged. We're talking stunning templates you can customize in minutes, not hours. Just drag and drop from their massive library of professional images and graphics. Add some smooth animations and even throw in interactive polls to keep everyone on their toes. Need to collaborate with your team? Just share your presentation instantly and edit together in real time. And here's something I love. Their AI tools can help summarize your text or even generate entire slides from a prompt. No wonder 95% of Fortune 500 companies use Canva. We just put together a very professional looking presentation for our team using Canva and the first thing everyone said was, this is great. Why haven't we done this before? Well, maybe they didn't know about Canva. You'll love the presentations you can easily design with Canva. And let me tell you something, your audience will too. Love your work with canva [e-mail] hey, welcome back to Business Wars. For decades, chain restaurants have offered frozen versions of our favorite dine in items. Red Robin's onion rings, TGI Friday's jalapeno peppers, P F Chang's orange chicken, and of course, those famous cheddar bay biscuits from Red Lobster. All within arm's reach at the local grocery store. It's a small part of their business, less than 10% of total revenue in some cases, but it's also one that's expected to grow, according to the trade publication Restaurant Business Online. All this leaves us with one very important question to address. How do those frozen aisle replicas stack up against the originals? Well, to help us investigate, we brought in Jordan Myrick, a writer for the website Sport, where they rank all your favorite food items for sale. Name an item at the grocery store and you can bet they've tried it. Today, Jordan is walking us through the frozen selections from Red Lobster to see if cheddar bay biscuits, among others, can be just as good at home as they are at the restaurant. Jordan Myrick, welcome to Business Wars.

[Jordan Myrick]

Thank you so much for having me.

[David Brown]

How did you get involved with Sporked and the food journalism business? I suppose.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sure. So I'm actually a comedian by trade. I went to NYU for acting. I have a BFA in drama. And because of that, I obviously have worked in a thousand restaurants in basically every position you can ever work in. And I always, yeah, I've always loved food too. And when I saw this job, they were specifically looking for people who had writing experience, who had on camera experience.

[David Brown]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Jordan Myrick]

Were interested in food. So someone sent it to me and they were like, it feels like they're just looking for you. For you. Yeah.

[David Brown]

Oh, that's awesome. I mean, it doesn't get more perfect than that, really.

[Jordan Myrick]

It really felt serendipitous.

[David Brown]

Okay, so what kinds of items do you tend to rank at Sport?

[Jordan Myrick]

Literally anything you can Buy at the grocery store that's like a product. So we wouldn't rank at this point. We would not rank like Kroger broccoli versus Publix broccoli or whatever, or like cuts of meat necessarily. But like anything you can buy in the freezer, deli, meats, fridge section, cereals, anything you can really think of that you can eat.

[David Brown]

Got it. And you use a ranking system?

[Jordan Myrick]

We do. We rank it at a 10, we give them sporks to stay on theme. And we try to keep things in mind. So obviously taste is a big thing, but we also try to keep in things like accessibility, availability, ease of preparation for certain items, price point. So we try to really give. Normally we'll do like a top 10, top 5, top 3, depending on what the product is.

[David Brown]

So what about these chain restaurant grocery selections? Have you ever, ever bought these items on your own without, you know, trying to do a back to back taste test or anything like that?

[Jordan Myrick]

You know, I'll be honest, not really for the most part. Because I'm like, I'll just go to the restaurant. I don't need to have them at home. But I also am very lucky. I live in Los Angeles, I used to live in New York. Like a lot of things are accessible to me. I remember the first time I tried the Taco Bell, like make your own Taco Bell at home kits. It tastes great. But ultimately my review was like, this is stupid. W this costs a hundred times more than just going to Taco Bell because the kit has like a corn tortilla shell and like the nacho cheese sauce, but you still have to buy meat and lettuce and sour cream and all these things. I was like, why would you purchase this? It does not make sense to me. And so many of the comments were like, well, I live nowhere near a Taco Bell. The closest Taco Bell to me is an hour away. And I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Not everybody has access to the same things that I have access to in a major city. And that was very eye opening. So I think that's who these products are for.

[David Brown]

Where does this come from, this idea of restaurants having grocery store offerings? I know it's been around for a long time, but it seemed like it really took off during COVID Absolutely.

[Jordan Myrick]

I think, yeah, no one was able to leave their house and go to P F Chang's. So we were all trying to replicate any sense of normalcy at home. And so I think we saw a big kind of boom in those at that period. Of time. And I think, yeah, now that people are out and about again, I know for me, I'll try anything. I'll do anything. I was stuck in my house for so long. I'll do whatever.

[David Brown]

Well, Jordan, since we've spent the past couple of episodes talking about Red Lobster, I want to get to the bottom of something. Is Red Lobster just as good at home? We wanted your professional opinion on how some of their frozen options compare to the real thing. What do you say we go ahead and give this a go?

[Jordan Myrick]

I'm excited.

[David Brown]

Alrighty. I know you've worked hard on this. What do you have in front of you? Can you tell us about your spread?

[Jordan Myrick]

All right, I have the cheddar bay biscuit shrimp, the cheddar bay biscuits themselves, and then a garlic parmesan stuffed shrimp.

[David Brown]

Hmm. What do you say we go with the parmesan crusted garlic and herb stuffed shrimp? Now, what did it take to prepare these?

[Jordan Myrick]

I put these in my air fryer for about 10, 12 minutes, and I cooked them until they just exploded a little bit, because I cannot seem to not explode something a little bit in my air fryer. And I know you're maybe like, well, why didn't you just do it again? Do it better? But I think that's relatable. So I want to give people the real experience that they're probably experiencing at home. And we're all exploding something just a little bit in our air fryer.

[David Brown]

Blowing it up in the air fryer. All right, so the formal description here is stuffed with garlic, herbs, and cream cheese surrounded by a parmesan crust. Breading. Red Lobster suggests these are good with salad. You ready to give it? Give it a bite.

[Amy McCarthy]

Sure.

[Jordan Myrick]

Absolutely. It really makes me laugh. Nothing about these is giving salad. I will say that.

[David Brown]

Okay. Mmm, sounds good.

[Jordan Myrick]

I'm giving you such an ASMR moment.

[David Brown]

I'll say.

[Jordan Myrick]

I mean, it's delicious. First of all, nothing with cream cheese has ever been bad. I feel like I can say that confidently in all my years doing this. It's shrimp. It's crunchy on the outside. It's extremely salty in a way where you might die if you have more than, like, four, really? And that's probably a serving size, so that's fine. You're not eating these every day. Like Red Lobster that put them on a salad, I guess. But the inside is so creamy and rich. They're really crunchy. I think it's pretty good.

[David Brown]

Sounded crunchy when. When you bit into it. It really did sound crunchy, but it it also sounds like, from your description, pretty heavy.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes, absolutely. This is like an appetizer you're bringing out for girls night or maybe a football game where everyone's coming over to watch. Like, you're not. You're probably not eating these for dinner every night.

[David Brown]

Now, as I understand it, this is not on the regular Red Lobster menu. This is exclusively for grocery stores. But I guess the brand's trying to use its identity to sell new frozen items. You think these could make it in the restaurants themselves?

[Jordan Myrick]

Absolutely. I think that's the most bizarre thing about these products, because I think the next shrimp that we're trying is also not on the menu. Maybe it is, maybe it's new. I'm not sure. But I don't think either one of these are on the Red Lobster menu. And my question is, why? Why would you make a product that's not on your. On your menu? And I totally get what you're saying about branding and just using that name to make more seafood products. It completely makes sense. But I think these could easily be on the menu and be really delicious. But I also think that they could put things that are already on the menu in the freezer section. So I have a lot of questions.

[David Brown]

Okay, so I know that you do the rankings here. How many sporks would you give this?

[Jordan Myrick]

I would say I'd give these, like, eight sporks. I think they're a fun little appetizer. I'm not going to reach for them every day, but I think they add a little bit of pizazz. I think you could also tell someone that these were homemade, and they would believe you.

[David Brown]

Wow. All right, well, eight sporks for the parmesan crusted garlic and herb stuffed shrimp. All right, let's move to the second item here. What about those cheddar bay biscuit shrimp? You have that?

[Jordan Myrick]

I do. I'm gonna take a bite right now.

[David Brown]

That sounded less crunchy than the first one.

[Jordan Myrick]

Mm. Okay. Ultimately, I think it's delicious because it just tastes like a cheddar bay biscuit, which is, hands down, one of the most delicious, delicious things in the world. Certainly the best free restaurant bread you can get.

[David Brown]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

And you're really getting that flavor. Also, the shrimp is nice and moist inside. It does do a little bit of that thing when you eat a biscuit, especially a chain restaurant biscuit, if you're familiar with Popeyes biscuits, where it kind of becomes a little bit of a paste in your mouth that sticks to.

[David Brown]

Your teeth a little bit.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, I'm Getting a little bit of that. But to be honest, I don't hate it. I'm, like, moving through it, and the taste is good enough that I'm completely happy. I'm gonna honestly do a nine on these.

[David Brown]

Really? You like these better?

[Jordan Myrick]

Really good. Yeah. I think that they're a little less dry, which I think is nice. But eating both side by side, I think this is a little bit better. I also think it's just more reminiscent of Red Lobster. So if I'm specifically buying a Red Lobster product, I'm probably looking for a Red Lobster experience close to what I've had in the restaurant. And I think this feels similar to the things they sell. And I also think it's so fun that it's a biscuit coating. I don't think I've ever seen biscuit coated shrimp anywhere. It seems like a thing that I would come up with when I was drunk, and I love that.

[David Brown]

So this is not on the regular Red Lobster menu. You think it should be?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes, absolutely. It's crazy. I know they have so many biscuits back there. They should just be doing this.

[David Brown]

Hey, speaking of biscuits, you want to dig into some cheddar bay biscuits?

[Jordan Myrick]

I would absolutely love to.

[David Brown]

All right. You got yours in front of you?

[Jordan Myrick]

I do.

[David Brown]

I spent too long, I think. I think these are supposed to be made in about, what, about 25, 30 minutes? And I felt like I spent longer than that making mine. But I'll tell you, it was so cozy smelling those biscuits, warming up and heating up the butter and mixing in all of those herbs and everything. But I will say one other thing, by the way. When I was preparing mine, when I pulled the. The dough out of the box, the eight little lumps were frozen together, and I couldn't get them apart, so I had to, like, put them in the microwave for about, you know, I don't know, 20, 30 seconds, and then take a little chopping thing and chop them up to get them back into the shape.

[Jordan Myrick]

Interesting. Mine were also connected, but they broke apart, in my experience, easily. But I'm also extremely strong, so I think that that's good to know.

[David Brown]

Okay. All right. All right. You ready to give yours about bite?

[Jordan Myrick]

Absolutely.

[David Brown]

Here we go. Three, two, one.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, exactly what you said. It's so tasty. I think aesthetically it's not an exact one to one of the restaurant. For the one that I'm looking at, the restaurant ones are a little bit bigger. The tops are more kind of craggly. A little bit is how I would describe them.

[David Brown]

Right.

[Jordan Myrick]

These are much more uniform, which makes sense. But these take significantly less time than the boxed Red Lobster biscuit mix. So I will never go back to buying that again. And I will always buy this from here on out. And I do think frozen in general is such an underrated grocery store biscuit preparation. I'm originally from the South. My family is from the South.

[David Brown]

Me too.

[Jordan Myrick]

And in a rush, my family always did biscuits from the freezer. And there's a couple brands that do it, and it yields such a great product. But I don't see people outside of the south talking about biscuits in the freezer very often. Everybody's using the tube.

[David Brown]

Okay, so what would you. What would you rank these Cheddar Bay biscuits? How many sporks?

[Jordan Myrick]

I guess I'd give them like a 9 or a 9.5.

[David Brown]

Whoa. Wow. That's some confidence there.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, I think it's very similar to what you get at the store. And that's a big thing for me. Is that. Is this the best biscuit in the world? No, but that's not what we're looking for. And that's not what people are going into the grocery store necessarily looking for. They're looking for something that tastes really good, is easy to make, is accessible, And I think Red Lobster promises something similar to what you get in the restaurant and what you've known and loved for years, and I think you get that.

[David Brown]

Jordan, I have to ask, given that you write for Sporked, you know, ranking and talking about all these grocery store products, what do you do when you want to get away from it all? What's the break for you?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes. Food consumes most of my life because it's such a big social element. And then I am at Sporked. I also host a comedy cooking competition show. So a lot of what I do is all revolved around food. And when I need a break, I will have a bowl of miso soup. That is the thing where I'm like, that feels so rejuvenating to me, so relaxing. Like a huge glass of ice cold water and a bowl of miso soup.

[David Brown]

A palate cleanser. Miso soup, Absolutely. Jordan Myrick is a writer for Sporked, where they rank, review and discuss all the latest grocery store products. You can read their [e-mail] Jordan, it's been a real pleasure to get to say hello and thanks so much for sharing a little bit of this wonderful food with us on business.

[Jordan Myrick]

Ward, thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful.

[David Brown]

Coming up One woman decides she's unhappy with the existing shapewear on the market and creates a product that redefines the whole category. But then Kim Kardashian thinks she can launch a company that does it even better. That's next time on Business Wars. If you like Business wars, you can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey from Wondery. This is episode three of the Killing of Red Lobster. For Business Wars, I'm your host David Brown. Kelly Kyle produced this episode. Peter A.R. cooney is our senior interview producer. Our producers are Tristan Donovan and Grant Rutter. Our audio engineers Sergio Enriquez. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Our senior producers are Emily Frost and Dave Schilling. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louie for wondering and now a next level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep Day day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.