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- [00:00]
David Brown
Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Business wars ad free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. From audible originals. I'm david brown, and this is business wars. Back in 2014, Google Glass Google's foray into the smart glasses space fell flat with consumers and failed to gain a hold in the marketplace. Not only that, the high tech frames also inadvertently created controversy. Remember the glass hole backlash? A decade later, Meta changed the narrative, introducing a streamline fashion forward approach, partnering with brands like Ray Ban and Oakley to make less ostentatious smart specs. With millions of pairs now sold, the results are hard to deny. But now Google is back in the game, hoping to give Meta a dose of healthy competition with its new Android XR smart glasses, which the company just previewed at Google I O in May. But as smart glasses become more mainstream and get even smarter with advances in artificial intelligence, more people are raising concerns about privacy, data sharing and facial recognition. They're questioning the ethics of how companies and their consumers use these products. Here to unpack the ups and downs of the smart glasses evolution are Wired senior Gear editor Julian Chokatu and Wired staff writer Boone Ashworth. The two have tried on their fair share of frames on Wired's Gear desk. We'll talk about how Meta emerged as the leader in the space and dive into the privacy debate. And later we'll get Julian and Boone's thoughts on their test drive of Google's brand new Android XR glasses and talk about where the industry might be headed next. So pop in those earbuds. Or maybe you've got a pair of audio enabled smart frames. You're going to want to pull them out because that's all coming up next.
- [02:17]
Julian Chokatu
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David Brown
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Julian Chokatu
We are live from Feddy's house.
- [02:32]
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Julian Chokatu
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- [02:38]
Boone Ashworth
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Julian Chokatu
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Boone Ashworth
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- [02:53]
Julian Chokatu
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- [02:57]
Boone Ashworth
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- [03:07]
David Brown
Julian Chokatu Boone Ashworth welcome to Business Wars.
- [03:10]
Julian Chokatu
Thanks Very much for having us.
- [03:12]
Boone Ashworth
Hey, David. Happy to be here.
- [03:13]
David Brown
Yeah, it's great to have you. I can imagine running the gear desk at Wired's gotta feel like that proverbial kid in the candy store. Before we get into the smart glasses, anything come across your desk recently that made you think, well, that's a new one. Didn't see that coming.
- [03:31]
Boone Ashworth
Well, I'm holding a different pair of smart glasses. They're the Xreal R1 glasses that I used to watch the Fellowship of the Ring yesterday. Just a giant screen on my face that I can move around with, tell
- [03:45]
David Brown
listeners a little bit about it. What? Describe it for us.
- [03:48]
Boone Ashworth
Oh, sure. They're lightweight glasses that plug into your phone or your Steam deck or console and then they project a big screen out in front of you and it's a little blurry and it's a little bit of a limited field of view. It's about 57 degrees, so you still see the rest of the room around you in your peripherals. So it's kind of dizzy and kind of hard to get used to, but after a bit you settle in.
- [04:11]
David Brown
Sounds like fun. Question mark? I'm trying to imagine watching a movie with one of these things on. I can't imagine that would be a pleasant experience.
- [04:20]
Boone Ashworth
I gotta admit, I did not make it through the entire three hour movie.
- [04:25]
David Brown
Julian, what about you?
- [04:27]
Julian Chokatu
Well, I broke my leg in like two, two months ago. And so it's been this opportunity to call in some stuff that are things that I would not usually test, accessibility minded stuff. One of which is a electric wheelchair which actually debuted at CES earlier this year.
- [04:45]
David Brown
Wow.
- [04:45]
Julian Chokatu
It's called the Strut EV1. It is very expensive, but it's equipped with lidar, so the same sort of sensor technology on like, you know, autonomous cars. It can detect obstacles around you so you just push the joystick forward and it can sort of navigate around those obstacles without you having to manually drive the wheelchair yourself. There's like a follow me mode, there's different speeds, it can go up more inclines than your usual mobility scooter. So it's actually been very, very nice in being able to just even take the dog out for, well, not really a walk, but for him a walk. But me a rol. But it's just been nice. So.
- [05:27]
David Brown
Well, let's get into the glasses. Want to get to Meta here in just a couple of minutes. But I know you guys have been testing out Google's new platform and I can't wait to talk about that because I think of smart Glasses and Google's what comes to mind. I mean, that was the first time I'd heard about smart glasses. And I'm wondering if maybe, Julian, you can take us back to Google Glass, which at least I feel like that was the first time a lot of us got a glimpse of what this might be. What is it? Prototype debuted in 2012, became available in 2014.
- [06:01]
Julian Chokatu
It was around that time. Yeah. I just remember I was in college. I was very into tech. I wasn't graduating in anything related to tech, but I was just super interested. And I just watched Google. I o as a fan, not as a journalist. And I at the time was super excited at Google Glass because I think they debuted it. It was the one where they had skydivers into the Moscone Center. It was such a big thing. And Sergey Br and you had the Google glasses on. And it was just such a new and exciting time. And it was this, what was supposed to be this revolutionary new technology, but ultimately it kind of just fell flat. You know, immediately everyone started calling people glass holes, anyone who was wearing them. They also looked very nerdy and techy. And, you know, obviously the big focal point became having a camera on your face, which is, you know, kind of a parallel to what the same conversations that we're having now on smart glasses. But I think overall it was too expensive too, and it just didn't work as well to warrant all of those capabilities at the time. But they definitely were the first and in some ways they sort of opened the idea up. And here we are almost more than 10 years later, and now Google is coming back to compete with the likes of Meta.
- [07:17]
David Brown
Well, Julian, what was it about Google Glass and the promise that got you really jazzed? Was it because there's a lot of functionality that was built into the dream that Google sort of put out there?
- [07:29]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it kind of is functional. You know, not having to pull out your phone to see where your next turn is while you're walking down the street of New York, because you'll be able to see that information on the little display on the glasses. Just being able to dismiss a notification that comes in without having to pull out your phone and check your phone and notifications and all that, you know, being able to tap the side and talk to an assistant of some type or even, you know, just take a picture easily, all of those things. I think a convenience level to that, where it was just an exciting time for being able to do those functions without having to constantly pull out Your phone, which I think at the time people were also talking about screen time.
- [08:10]
David Brown
I have heard you say three times without pulling out my phone. And it seems to me that that was really the convenience factor of not having to do that. But you mentioned Glass Hole. Why do you think Google Glass had this, I don't know, this stigma attached to it.
- [08:30]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, I think at the time social media was still sort of in its infancy. It was still early days and people had smartphones. But the idea of now strapping one to your face and taking a picture without someone perhaps knowing, I think was so new. And now it's much more commonplace. Even though we still have those same conversations on privacy, it's still far more commonplace to see someone do that today.
- [08:56]
David Brown
Yeah, for sure.
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Julian Chokatu
But I think it was just a little too early back then that there was just this backlash of, no, I don't want that. And, you know, we're still seeing that again, but I think it's a little more accepted ever since Meta's version sort of got popular.
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David Brown
We have not mentioned one of the key factors here that really sort of weakened Google, I think, in the minds of a lot of folks. And that is how it looked when you were wearing them, because they looked like they were supposed to be somewhat inconspicuous in that they were sort of. They were light and clear looking, but didn't really look like glasses. And so those folks walking around with them, it looked like. How do we put this? Kindly
- [09:38]
Boone Ashworth
dorky.
- [09:39]
David Brown
Well, there you are, there you are. Which brings us to the next iteration. Flashing forward a few years. Boone, I know you spent a lot of time testing Meta's Ray Bans and talk about glasses that look like regular sunglasses. That's one of the chief benefits of going with these new Meta glasses, don't you think?
- [10:00]
Boone Ashworth
Sure. Not that I'm a fashion expert at all, but looks are just such an important part of a thing that you're going to be wearing front and center on your face. Like people wear Ray Ban glasses and Oakley glasses because they look good. And Meta made a really strong partnership there with Ray Ban and Oakley to make glasses that functioned as smart glasses, but also looked like something people would actually wear.
- [10:26]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah.
- [10:26]
David Brown
And for not too much of a price premium either. What are these new Meta glasses coming in at, price wise?
- [10:34]
Boone Ashworth
Depends on the model. You can get them anywhere between $250 starting, and then they go up to 500. I think the display lenses are a little bit more expensive than that.
- [10:45]
David Brown
And what are the display lenses? Is that part of these flagship Gen 2 glasses, is that what you're talking about?
- [10:51]
Boone Ashworth
No, the Gen 2 just have audio features and cameras. Meta's display glasses were something they announced, I believe in 2024, came out last year, and they have a small display down in the bot of the screen that can be used for transcription, language, translation, seeing directions that guide you around. They also require a wristband, a compute puck they call it, in order to kind of offload some of the gesture control and technology that they need to pack into the glasses. So they're a little bit bulkier than the Gentoo ones, which is something that people were critical about. So they look a little Google Glassier, but they have the displays, which has sort of been like the holy grail for smart glasses for a long time, is having that heads up display like you would in a video game or just walking around.
- [11:45]
David Brown
And from the perspective of someone looking at someone wearing these new display glasses, Meta display glasses, do they look pretty much like standard Ray Bans or like the Gen 2 glasses?
- [11:58]
Boone Ashworth
It's kind of old man from up, but make it fashion. So I think they're a little bit boxier, but I think if you've got the right kind of face, I suppose, or just confidence, I think you could pull it off.
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David Brown
Okay. All right, well, what about sales? How are sales going? To the best of your knowledge?
- [12:16]
Boone Ashworth
I think Meta sold 9 million pairs of glasses total. I believe it was 7 million in 2025 alone. So they've definitely been doing pretty well in terms of sales.
- [12:28]
David Brown
Well, so does this mean Meta has been able to crack the code and do what Google dreamed of doing, but wasn't able to pull off? Snapchat, I guess tried it too. Right. But has Meta achieved what a lot of people thought wouldn't actually take off?
- [12:43]
Boone Ashworth
Yeah, I think they have. I think it's also something that everybody else seems to be following in their footsteps. Like Google has recently partnered with Warby Parker and Gentle Monster, which are also very fashionable glasses brands. So they're doing sort of the same thing of trying to make them fashion forward for sure.
- [13:03]
David Brown
But it seems like there's something else beyond just the fashionability of these glasses that makes them a success. And that's you can get a pair of meta Ray Ban Gen 2s. I've seen them in local stores here in Austin, which is where I'm at, I have to admit. Haven't seen them on a lot of faces, but I know where to go if I want to get some. And that was not a possibility when Google was doing its thing and I'm wondering if in a way that built in retail store presence that Ray Ban already has, if that partnership is sort of the key to the ball here.
- [13:41]
Boone Ashworth
Yeah, I think so. Let me here, I'm going to turn my camera on real quick so you can see them. I'm wearing a pair of the Gen 2 Ray bans right now.
- [13:49]
David Brown
Oh yeah, for sure. I would not know the difference.
- [13:53]
Boone Ashworth
I have been told they don't necessarily work on my face but.
- [13:56]
David Brown
Oh, that's harsh.
- [13:57]
Boone Ashworth
The meta people told me they look quite good.
- [14:00]
David Brown
Yes, of course they did. But no, seriously, they look really, they look very natural. And can you get prescription lenses in them?
- [14:06]
Boone Ashworth
You sure can. It's a little bit more of a process, but you can do it.
- [14:09]
David Brown
Well then that's the whole shooting match right there. If you're talking about reaching a lot of consumers, you're gonna have to have them at retail locations. You're gonna have to be able to deal with those who are constantly going to need glasses for reading getting around. And it sounds like that's a big key to what's made these meta glasses a success or what do you guys think?
- [14:32]
Julian Chokatu
I think definitely the retail aspect of it is very important because it's kind of like smartphones. There's always new companies trying to enter the market with a new smartphone, but unless they get themselves in a carrier store in America, they're not really going to find much success. And so by partnering with what is essentially the largest glasses brand in the world, S Lord Exotica, I think they've positioned themselves very well to be able to anyone to be able to go to any, you know, store and probably find them in stock. And I think Google is trying to do that similar strategy. Warby Parker has a lot of locations so I think maybe they will find similar success there, but maybe not to the same extent.
- [15:10]
Boone Ashworth
Well, there's also genuinely useful use cases, I guess like I was recently paddleboarding with my mom and we were, I was using a time the meta Ray Ban glasses and was able to take pictures without, you know, again, taking my phone out of the dry bag or whatever. There's also, you know, there are some people who are legally blind who use the AI to identify things around them.
- [15:31]
David Brown
Nice.
- [15:31]
Boone Ashworth
There are transcription services for people who are deaf that that can be useful too if the AI is good enough to make it work. There are real reasons that people want these and real things that they can do. Some of them haven't manifested exactly all that well, but I think the promise is definitely there. And I think people are really intrigued by it.
- [15:49]
David Brown
Well, Boone, when you did your article about the live product demo for the Gen 2s, you included a claim that was pretty startling and kind of a step beyond where we are right now. And Mark Zuckerberg was saying that people not wearing these glasses will be, and I'm going to quote him at a pretty significant cognitive disadvantage. And I guess for all the talk of the AI features and these high hopes that Zuckerberg clearly has for this, I can't help but wonder if these are just, you know, more convenient versions of the smartphone that we've gotten used to and now we're just sort of transitioning to the, to a different form factor that you wear on your face. Maybe not even that, because what, I guess really you're only getting a fraction of a phone's functionality. Right. What's your take on this?
- [16:40]
Boone Ashworth
I think Meta in particular has done a really good job at putting the right phone features into the glasses.
- [16:46]
Julian Chokatu
Right.
- [16:46]
Boone Ashworth
Like it's things that you would want. Want to take a picture in the moment, want to ask a question that's off the top of your head, want to know somebody's name that's not in there yet, but maybe eventually, someday. I think maybe a significant cognitive advantage is kind of a crazy way to say it, but also I do think there are advantages to having this information readily available on your face in the moment. I think my argument is just that's probably going to be less of a social advantage because I'm trying to imagine being in a normal conversation with somebody not remembering their name and then having to wait for the glasses to tell me, or like having, you know, not knowing about a topic that they're talking about, not wanting to sound stupid asking my glasses a question or whatever, or just like even, even with the display lenses, like having a little thing, a little window in the bottom of your screen that you are looking at, people are going to be able to tell that you're not making eye contact, that you're not, you know, engaged with them in a face to face conversation. And I just feel like there's going to be these weird tells that you are interacting with your glasses, not a person. You know, sometimes it's annoying when you're having a conversation with somebody and they pull out their phone and they're texting away on their phone that feels like they're dismissing you in real life. And I just think that this is in some ways gonna be an easier way to do that. And so I think it's just Gonna come down to how people deploy it in the moment. If you're sitting there by yourself and you wanna ask it a question or take a picture, like, that's totally fine. If you're in a conversation with somebody in a room, I think it's gonna get a little stickier.
- [18:18]
David Brown
Julian, a couple of things here, and I'm wondering how you feel about this, if you think I'm being overly cynical or what, but if it comes down to buying a pair of specialty glasses to avoid pulling out my smartphone, I'm not sure it's worth 350 bucks. But then moving on to that next level where we're talking about the display lens, I don't know, it seems like it leans really hard on AI to do a lot of the lifting here. And I'm just wondering if we're all not just sort of getting a little toxed out by, you know, AI is the buzzword. How do you feel about it?
- [18:55]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, keep in mind also that for all of these glasses functionalities, like you still need your phone tethered because a lot of the processing ends up going through your phone, especially with cellular connectivity. So you still need your phone. At some point maybe there will be cellular smart glasses and that will be a thing. But they still rely on phones for a lot of the processing. And you know, for AI features, I think there's definitely way too much being done from the tech companies in shoving AI in our face in every single way. And I think there's a rightful rejection of that, and I think that is completely valid and fair. At the same time, I think there are elements of some of this technology that has been evolving for the past 10 something years. Machine learning, it was the buzzword, and I don't think it had quite as much of a reaction as AI, But a lot of this is sort of some of the same, similar foundational. And I think there were a lot of features that I've come to rely on and love from machine learning. Whether that's automatic transcription. When I'm doing an interview, I just hit record and afterwards everything's already typed up and I obviously vet and make sure it still sounds accurate and everything is there, but it sure as hell beats having to retype everything and listening to the whole recording again. Right. So there's things like that that have evolved over the past few years that I think AI is polishing and offering some of these capabilities that are genuinely useful for examp. Google Lens, I think is one of my most favorite features where my dad even uses it where he goes to a tree and he's like, what tree is this? And he'll be like, cool, it's this one. And that's all using machine learning. And I've used Google Lens countless times to identify. My wife uses it. And the evolution of that is sort of the same thing that's through Google's Gemini glasses, for example. You take a picture and you say, hey, what is that? When I did the demo with the Google glasses this past two weeks ago, I sat next to a board game. It was Chinese checker Checkers. I just asked Google the glasses, hey, what is this board game? And it told me, oh, it's Chinese checkers. And it sort of gave me a little history about it. And then I asked, how do I play it? And it started giving me instructions on how to play it. But then I said, hey, actually, can you just save that into a Google keep note? And it saved it on a note in my phone so that I can look at it later. So I think there's elements of this where it's really helpful. And you can imagine that when, say, you're at a restaurant, you're like, oh, this looks really good. I kind of want to make this at home. Hey, can you, like, find something like this and give me a similar recipe and save it to my phone? Hey, walking past a poster for a music show, and can you just put that on my calendar? Because I want to remind myself to buy tickets. All of that stuff becomes much more sort of ambient computing and more integrated with the daily flow of life. And breaking that pattern of, oh, I have to stop, pull out my phone, take a picture, and maybe I then get distracted by something else I see on my phone. So I think there's elements of that that I think people appreciate when they finally get to try and see these features out in the real world. But of course, that's also not to minimize the rightful rejection of all the AI capabilities that are being forced on everyone as well.
- [22:09]
David Brown
You've said so much there that I think so important, because that's what happened organically with the smartphone, when people found ways to incorporate the smartphone into their everyday lives in ways that probably weren't even conceived of by the initial designers and that led to a whole, you know, infrastructure. But listen, we got to talk about some of the downsides here, and we're going to do that in just a moment. My guests are Wired magazine senior editor Julian Chokatu and staff writer Boone Ashworth. When we come back, we're going to take a look at some of the thorny ethical issues that surround smart glasses. Stay with us.
- [22:48]
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- [24:54]
David Brown
Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. My guests are Julian Chokatu and Boone Ashworth from Wired's Gear Desk. You know, we've been talking mainly about the technology, what smart glasses can and can't do. Guys, do you mind if I share something with you? And I'm not sure that this goes to the can or can't situation, but I got a pair of the Gen 2 glasses and when I was setting them up, I had to, you know, integrate it with my smartphone. So you download an app to do that. And as I was typing in all this information, I was reminded about why I left Facebook years ago. You know, I was kind of, you're both laughing. And I was thinking, you know, I Just don't want Facebook looking over my shoulder all the time when I'm on my computer. And then I realized, what am I buying into? It's going to be looking at the world through my own eyes, in a sense, right. And sucking in all of that data and knowing far more about me as a person than it could have ever really picked up from the inferences that you can draw based on how you use your computer. It was really seeing the world as you see it. And I'm wondering if that's given you any, I don't know, pause or maybe creeped you out a little bit, or am I just being too paranoid here?
- [26:12]
Julian Chokatu
No, I think that is the number one thing. I think that a lot of people also, especially in the wave of Meta's popularity with the glasses, I think the number one rejection was that. But it's Meta. Like, you know, Meta has just a really bad history with privacy and managing your data and all of the above. And it's just not a good company from that outlook. And I think anyone who is interested in trying to keep their data private would probably not want to buy the Meta glasses. Boone probably can say the same, but.
- [26:45]
David Brown
Boone, what do you think?
- [26:46]
Boone Ashworth
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I. One of the reasons I'm kind of excited to see where Google is going with its glasses is not because, you know, Google's like the good guy necessarily, but it's just. It will be nice to have something that feels like viable smart glasses that isn't made by Meta, just because Meta has. As Julie was saying, there's just this whole track record of privacy issues that have gone wrong. I believe they're being sued right now because very sensitive videos had been uploaded to a Meta subcontractor, who then saw videos that people had recorded on their glasses and didn't know that they were sharing. So things like people naked, people using the bathroom, people having sex, like, you have to be careful what you're filming on your smart glasses because that might wind up somewhere that you are not expecting.
- [27:36]
David Brown
I have these visions of putting the glasses on the bedside table. Oh, my gosh.
- [27:41]
Boone Ashworth
I'm talking to you specifically, David. Be careful. I didn't mean me specifically.
- [27:48]
David Brown
You guys are cruel. But. But of course, this is another thing, right? Because you go into, I don't know, you go into a gym and you're wearing these glasses and they see this guy come in with his Ray Bans on and everyone kind of does a double take, you know, looking for. Is that red light on, on the temples there? What's, you know, and, you know, there's the question of what ethically we should or shouldn't be able to do with these glasses. But, you know, the ability to record everything without people always, you know, being aware of it. What are some of the biggest privacy concerns that you see coming along with these products? Julian, what would you say?
- [28:30]
Julian Chokatu
I mean, I think it has to be. The camera is like number one because it drives everything else. You know, the same thing. Like if Meta wanted to add facial recognition, you know, I think last year it was some students found a way to add facial recognition tracking software into the meta glass and they were able to correctly identify people who were riding the subway. So that kind of tech can obviously and always be used for nefarious purposes. But I think ultimately the camera is the number one thing that I think it's up to these companies to really figure out a way to make it so that people can't go around the hardware and actually find ways to disable the recording light for the camera, which is a common thing a lot of people are doing with the meta glasses, but also I think designing them in a way where maybe modular cameras, you can so that maybe if you're entering a sensitive environment, you don't have to take your old glasses off. And maybe if you're a glasses wearer like I am, have to carry a second pair of glasses, but maybe you can just pop the cameras off or something. I think a lot of social cues will form as more and more people probably will end up buying and wearing and using these glasses. But I think we'll see a bit of a, you know, maybe we'll see signs saying no meta glasses please, or something to that effect. But I think a lot of the responsibility still falls to the these companies because they are the ones pushing the technology. They should be responsible for keeping it safe, private, and minimize that data breach risk.
- [30:01]
David Brown
Well, I mean, glass holes, that whole thing kind of really deep sixed Google's first iteration. And I wonder, Boone, if you think that maybe Meta is vulnerable here?
- [30:14]
Boone Ashworth
Sure, yeah, absolutely. I mean, people are calling them pervert glasses. Our colleague Miles Klee just wrote a story about the rise of the meta ray ban creep. And my other colleague Rhys Rogers, also on the gear desk, and I wrote about people who are removing the lights, the indicator lights on the Meta glasses that tell you when somebody's recording. And you can find whole TikTok streams of people saying you can go in and drill it, you can put a cover over it, you can do this. So I Think an element of this is just human behavior. People are always going to use technology for ill at some point. Point I do think, you know, meta has to get on top of that a little bit more and I think that the way that that's going is that people are going to be very critical of this technology when people use them in this way.
- [31:03]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah. And I also think that like, you know, obviously we saw Google Glass start more than 10 years ago stop and fail and then we hadn't really heard a ton of other smart glasses in between. There were a few, but not, not really from any major major companies. But I don't think at this point smart glasses is gon go away. It's too big. All the big companies are making them. This is for sure going to be a very real part of our tech gadget sort of life cycle products here now, much like the Apple watch or smartwatches in general. So I think we're just going to have to see how these companies respond to how people use and maybe abuse the products.
- [31:42]
Boone Ashworth
They look good, but it would be nice if they do good as well.
- [31:47]
David Brown
Yeah, for sure. Listen, what is this segment called? Does it have a name? Because already the brands are putting their own name on it. You know, Google Glass and Metaglasses.
- [31:58]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, I mean I think they're just the smart glasses category. And what's interesting is that, you know, the category is really wide right now. Like sort of like what Boone mentioned initially, the glasses he was talking about testing earlier. Those are like display specific glasses where you kind of plug them into a smartphone, a gaming console, console or a laptop. And you can project your laptop screen to the glasses to see something so you don't have to crane your neck down all the time. Great for something like an airport or an airplane. But that's a very different category compared to these more stylish glasses that are designed to be walked around with. And this AI features to sort of work with you throughout the day. And then there's also that other category of glasses that's like more accessibility minded. So earlier last year the Nuance is a brand from AS Laurel Exotica. They came out with hearing aid glasses and these are supposed to be for people with low to moderate levels of hearing loss. You can just wear these glasses and they try to beam in on the area that you're looking at and improve the audio that picks up and route them through the speakers. So that's another category. I know we're seeing transcription glasses for hard of hearing people who can also now see the text of what people are saying on these glasses as well. So I think there's going to be all sorts of these types of categories popping up and each are going to be tailored to specific things. Just like how phones and wearables are kind of doing that right now.
- [33:22]
David Brown
Now we're gonna hit the pause button and when we come back, we're gonna get a first look at Google's brand new Android XR and talk about the future of smart glasses. Stay with us.
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- [35:42]
David Brown
Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. I'm here with Julian Chokatu and Boone Ashworth from Wired. Now, just a few weeks ago, you both co authored an article that previewed Google's new Android XR line of Smart glasses. First, I gotta ask, how'd you get that first look?
- [36:01]
Boone Ashworth
It was Julian's. Just built different.
- [36:05]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, just good. Building relationships over a long time.
- [36:09]
David Brown
Well, how do, how does it work? Do they. Do they. Do they bring you in and you have to, you know, get your eyeballs scanned and go through a number of security doors and all of that stuff? Top secret facility 007.
- [36:23]
Julian Chokatu
Not going to lie. Fairly light on the security, actually. But it was at Google's campus, they brought us into a demo room and they had my prescription already, so they just put prescriptions on the glasses so that I could try them on. And they do that for everyone who comes in so that they don't have to retrofit other types of lenses or whatever. But basically I got to try the reference design, which wasn't the final version that is going to come out later this year for Warby Parker and Gentle Monster. The reference design is what the hardware version that Google and Samsung have been working on privately and the technology will be what's available in the devices later this year.
- [37:00]
David Brown
Wait a minute, did you say Samsung? Samsung is teaming up here?
- [37:03]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah. So Android XR is sort of a cross collaboration between Samsung and Google. So they're working both on the hardware and software. You could say that Google is maybe working more on the software side and Samsung is helping with the hardware. And then of course, the design comes from Warby Parker and Gentle Monster.
- [37:20]
David Brown
Nice. And how do they look? Do they look as good as the metal, that is?
- [37:24]
Julian Chokatu
They pass for completely normal glasses. I think you can still see the cameras, obviously, so I think they're a little more stylish than the Ray Bans, but maybe I will get some flack for that. They felt very lightweight, which is a very important thing because who wants to wear these really bulky things all day on your head? And the version I tried technically had the full feature set. They're basically three types of glasses that Google is making. Audio only a single display and then a double binocular display. And the binocular display sort of gives you that full feature set where it's like a rich display experience. The single display is almost the same, it's just a slightly lesser display capabilities. And then the audio version is what's coming out first. And that's more akin to the Gen 2 metaclasses where you can hear what the assistant is saying and you can talk to the assistant, but you can't just see any visual data.
- [38:16]
David Brown
Very interesting. Boone, how do you feel about these glasses and what's the difference between this new iteration and say the Meta glasses, if you had to single out any particular feature. Feature, Yeah.
- [38:28]
Boone Ashworth
I mean, they're slightly less dorky than the original Google Glass. I'll say that I didn't get to try them the way Julian did, but I'm excited to see what they do. I'm also particularly excited to see how Google's Gemini AI works in them because I have experience with the metaglasses and I don't think that Meta's AI is quite on the level that Gemini is right now. And so I'm interested to see how they pull off putting that stuff in their glasses. During the I O event, when Google was announcing these glasses, they definitely were focusing less on content capture and trying to film the world around you and more just using the cameras as a way to guide you through the world. So I think that's definitely a focus that Google is going for and I'm curious to see how that plays out for them.
- [39:20]
David Brown
That's interesting. Where do you think this is going in the, the short term? Are we going to start to see the sort of similar walled off gardens the way that we have iPhone and Android? We're going to have the Google Glass functionalities. They're all going to have certain strengths and Meta is going to have its strengths.
- [39:43]
Boone Ashworth
I think that's kind of their dream, right, is having you locked in that walled garden. I do think Google's approach is a little broader because of Android XR allows third party developers to build on it, whereas meta's is doing its own thing. I think in general the future of Smart glasses is like Julian was saying earlier, more niche, you know, trying to make them lighter. And I think there's going to be a lot of smaller brands really fighting it out and I think they're going to struggle in the face of these, of these giants.
- [40:13]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah. But I think one thing where this may play out slightly differently also though, compared to smartphones, is that this is such a design focused product, like you put this on your face and I think there's opportunities for smaller companies who really lean into that and try new things and play into that design factor where maybe they can actually get someone interested enough if they have the technology Right. As well to produce something that maybe they'll collect a niche group of people who want to wear that versus what is sort of the trendier, more popular Google or metaglasses. Right. So I think that does play a factor because it's just such a big design play.
- [40:53]
Boone Ashworth
That's a great point.
- [40:54]
David Brown
You know, I Wonder, is there anything left of AR and VR or is that pretty much off the table? Is everything sort of focused on AI right now? And how does that factor into what's happening in this smart glasses space?
- [41:07]
Julian Chokatu
Well, so I think a lot of it is actually converging, especially around ar, specifically. Like, you know, a big part of these smart glasses, especially with the display, is that with the cameras, you'll be able to layer things over the real world and see them through the display. And so that augmented experience still follows, follows through, especially something like you're navigating with Google Glasses and you have Google Maps pulled up right over the real world. But I think the other very interesting thing that we also saw at that event two weeks ago is this project aura that is coming from a company called xrail who's developing Android XR glasses with Google. You know, Samsung and Apple have their very bulky mixed reality headsets like the Vision Pro. What xreal is doing is what I saw in their demo is essentially 90% of that functionality brought down to something that is the size as a pair of smart glasses. It is incredibly lightweight. I was able to use my fingers to click on apps, full Android apps, run them, play a game, even just move around. I could see the world around me. One of the things they showed me was, oh, you could even watch a video and fling it to the side of your eyes while you're washing the dishes. So it had full Android XR capabilities. So all the typical Android apps you can access, all in something that is essentially a pair of glasses. Except the downside is that thing does have a wire connected to a battery pack that you have to put in your pocket. So there is a compromise there. But the fact that we went from something like last year or two years ago with something as heavy and bulky as an Apple Vision Pro to already seeing something like this in a much slimmer, more comfortable form factor. I think you can imagine in five or so years that stuff was just going to miniaturize more and more. And maybe you're basically going to run a full phone experience with apps and all on something like smart glasses in 5, 7, 10 years.
- [42:57]
David Brown
It seems like it's conspicuous in its absence. We haven't really talked about Apple. Are they a player in this space at all? From what you can tell. Boone, have you heard anything from Cupertino?
- [43:08]
Boone Ashworth
Oh, they're getting there, I'm sure, right? Someday, maybe. Eventually. I think they're probably working on it. I think they had a little bit of a setback with their Vision Pro, which was really heavy. And was it very expensive and didn't quite reach. I mean, it was a developer device. So I think it probably reached an audience they were expecting, but they haven't really iterated on that very much. But I think the pressure to get into the smart glasses space is definitely probably pretty high in Cupertino right now. So I imagine they're working on it. WWDC is soon. I don't know if we'll hear anything about that. That's their developer conference, the big Apple conference. Yes. So I don't know if we'll hear anything about it there, but I imagine there is something going on.
- [43:57]
David Brown
You know, when will we know when do you think most people will be convinced that the age of smart glasses has arrived? It's one thing if you guys are plugged into what's going on there in Silicon Valley and San Francisco Bay Area and all that that's going to be, I would imagine you're going to have a higher concentration of people using these glasses. But say here in Austin, which thinks of itself as a big tech city, even if there's some question about that, I'm a little surprised that for all the talk about how meta glasses have taken off, that I don't think I've seen any in the wild yet. And if you look at the raw numbers, 9 million is a lot, but, you know, it's hardly a saturation point.
- [44:47]
Boone Ashworth
Well, I think we're getting close, really. And I think we're getting close because I just saw my mom last weekend who lives in rural northern Idaho, and she has been talking about wanting cameras in her glasses for years. And so seeing these available now, she is convinced she invented the idea. So let's like give her credit there, but I think she's ready for a pair, you know, and so I think more and more people are warming up to the idea. I'm interested to see how this backlash goes because there's gonna be a real, real push against it. And I think honestly the answer for a bit is probably going to lie with Gen Z and see. See what the kids want to wear.
- [45:31]
David Brown
Julian, what's the tipping point for you?
- [45:33]
Julian Chokatu
Yeah, I mean, I feel like it may not be obvious, but if you go on social media today, you can subtly notice that a lot of videos are being filmed by some of these classes because people don't have a phone in their hand or it's clearly coming. The video feed is coming from their head. So I think there's a lot of this content capture that's Been happen, happening and people are slowly kind of noticing it and then they're.
- [45:57]
David Brown
We don't even realize it, right?
- [45:58]
Julian Chokatu
And then they're then saying, oh, look how convenient that is. He can have his full hands and mobility and do all the things he wants to do in this video, but he can still record it without having to worry about holding up a phone. So I think when, you know, we're already seeing that sort of stuff, I sometimes look at those videos and see comments where people are like, oh, how did you capture this? And they're saying, oh, with the meta glasses. So I think as more and more content is being created about them, I think naturally it's be to going, going to get more and more popular. You know, later this year we're going to see Google's options, but I think as that stuff rolls out next year we're definitely going to start seeing because now we'll have two very, very major players in the space. And I think that might be a tipping point where people might start paying more attention and maybe even wanting to buy one for the Christmas holiday list.
- [46:47]
David Brown
I like how you're going so bold on the record. 2027, the year of smart glasses. Yeah, look like that. You guys have been so generous with your time. Before I let you go, I'm curious, just pie in the sky. You're designing your own smart glasses. What's that one feature that you love to see that doesn't exist yet? Julian, what about you?
- [47:10]
Julian Chokatu
That's a very hard question, I think. I mean, a lot of the stuff that you would think naturally, I feel like are the things that they've already considered and started putting in there. I feel like one of the coolest things that I remember from the original Google Glass demo was the person video calling. I think it was a guy who was like video calling his girlfriend and they were like looking over a rooftop at the sunrise. And I think no one has really talked about that kind of capability today. I think with a lot of the smart glasses, I think the idea of being able to take a video call and show the person that you love what you're seeing, whether you're halfway around the world, I think that's something that's really cool and I think that could be something that's.
- [47:55]
Boone Ashworth
I like that.
- [47:56]
David Brown
I don't know.
- [47:56]
Julian Chokatu
Just kind of a nice, nice feature. Yeah.
- [47:58]
Boone Ashworth
Boone, put a neck massager in it while you're there. Just give me just, just, just like help get the tension out of my neck a little bit, you know, do something real for me.
- [48:11]
David Brown
Julian Chercatu is Wired's Senior Gear editor. Boone Ashworth is a staff writer on Wired, Wired's gear desk. Guys, thanks so much for joining us on Business wars and telling us about the shape of things to come.
- [48:25]
Julian Chokatu
Thanks for having me. It was a really fun conversation.
- [48:28]
Boone Ashworth
Yeah, this is great. Thank you.
- [48:30]
David Brown
Next time on Business wars, we'll take you inside the Greek yogurt empire Chobani. The company grabbed a massive 20% of America's multi billion dollar yogurt market and turned the whole industry upside down. But does Chobani have what it takes to stay on top? Follow Business wars on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Business wars ad free by joining Audible. From Audible Originals. This is episode three of Meta and the Battle for Smart Glasses for Business Wars. I'm your host, David Brown. Our senior interview producer is Peter A.R. cooney. Our senior producers are Jenny Bloom and Emily Frost. Our producer is Tristan Donovan of Yellowant. Karen Lowe is our producer emeritus engineered by Sergio Enriquez. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylott. Kyle Randall is our lead sound designer Executive Producer for Audible Jenny Lauer Beckman, head of Creative Development at Audible Kate Navin, head of Audible Originals North America Marshall Louie, Chief Content Officer Rachel Giazza Copyright 2026 by Audible Originals, LLC Sound Recording Copyright 2026 by Audible Original.