Best of the Bus: Charles Woodson On Legendary Career At Michigan + Winning Heisman Over Peyton Manning

Summary

Bussin' With The Boys: Best of the Bus – Charles Woodson On Legendary Career At Michigan + Winning Heisman Over Peyton Manning

Episode Date: May 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This special episode features the legendary Charles Woodson joining the bus with NFL pros Will Compton and Taylor Lewan to reflect on his iconic football journey. The conversation explores Michigan's recent national championship, college football culture, Woodson's historic Heisman win over Peyton Manning, transitions in football, loyalty and NIL, stories from his playing days, and his ventures beyond the gridiron. The tone is playful, brotherly, and candid, with a powerful look at the emotions and transitions of a once-in-a-generation athlete.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michigan’s National Championship & The Culture Shift

• Michigan’s Recent Success

  • The boys immediately jump into Michigan’s resurgence and national championship run (2023). Woodson credits the return of key players and a “Michigan vs. Everybody” mentality.
    • “It truly was a Michigan versus everybody. … All right, you guys are going to put all of this on our plate. Bet we'll handle it. And that's exactly what they did.” – Charles Woodson (05:58)
  • Harbaugh’s suspension and the way the staff and players adapted are highlighted as proof of Michigan’s strong culture.
    • “I was at that [Penn State] game. … Just a lot of different storylines. … Those guys just looking at that situation in the face and just being like, it don't matter.” – Charles Woodson (04:25)

• Beating Ohio State and the Rivalry

  • The conversation examines how perennial losses to Ohio State felt like the biggest roadblock—until Michigan finally broke through (03:36-04:12).
  • Woodson pokes fun at the Nebraska co-title in 1997 and AP vs. Coaches’ poll debates, keeping the rivalry playful (07:26-09:03).

2. Inside the Locker Room: Era Differences, Culture & Toughness

• Stories of Loyalty and Transfer Culture

  • Woodson emphasizes the difference between his era—where loyalty to school was paramount—and now, where transfer portals and NIL deal change dynamics.
    • “There used to be truly, like, a loyalty to school. Now it's just a loyalty to you and what you can get…” – Charles Woodson (29:14)

• Coaches, Trainers, and Humor

  • Woodson tells the classic “bend the knee” story, where his mom made him apologize to Coach Carr after storming out of practice.
    • “She broke me. … If you’re not going to apologize for yourself, apologize for me.” (14:02)
  • The crew jokes about Michigan’s legendary staff (Schmitty, Big John)—with hilarious anecdotes about locker room culture (16:02-17:55).

3. Winning the Heisman Over Peyton Manning

• A Historic Moment, Surreal Emotions

  • Woodson gives a detailed account of the 1997 Heisman race, being a defensive player among quarterbacks and future Hall of Famers.
    • “I thought I was the best player, but I didn’t think I was going to win the Heisman. … It just wasn’t going to happen … And then, you know, Rudy Risk … opens an envelope and he’s like, from Michigan. Oh, man. My whole body just went limp.” (18:21, 20:32)
  • Woodson jokes he had “nothing” prepared for his acceptance speech, because he didn’t think he’d win (21:52).

• Notable Heisman Quotes

  • “You win the Heisman, obviously, such a surreal moment. … How stressful and nervous were you giving the speech?” – Cal Penn (21:42)
    • “I didn’t have … I had nothing.” – Charles Woodson

4. NIL, Transfer Portal, The Modern Athlete

• The crew debates how NIL and the portal would have changed Woodson’s experience:

  • “You’d have probably … you would have been a seven figure cat.” – Cal Penn (22:55)
  • Woodson jokes about having “one year left” and says he could still give college players “some work out there” (23:09).

• Loyalty, Team Building & The Challenge of Today’s Game

  • “If you’re trying to do that every year, you gotta have kind of a nucleus of guys that are coming back … It’s gonna get harder and harder, you know, for coaches to kind of maintain that.” – Charles Woodson (29:19)

5. Michigan’s Future: Expectations & Rebuilding Post-Championship

• Woodson outlines the challenges for new coach Sherrone Moore, significant coaching/stat departures, and a daunting 2024 schedule.
  • “Texas, they have their guy, their quarterback’s coming back … I think it’ll be tough sledding for [Michigan] just because he’s rebuilding it.” (32:01-33:15)

6. NFL Career: Raiders, Packers, Locker Room & Legacy

• Leaving Oakland & Bitterness

  • Woodson describes shock and bitterness from his first Raiders exit—not with the team, but with the GM.
    • “There was a little bitterness … But then … it was dry as the Sahara out there.” – Charles Woodson (38:02-39:54)
  • He reveals the market was quiet due to injury/rumors spread by former organization, and how Green Bay saved his career (39:54-41:02).
    • “If Green Bay didn’t want me, I don’t … really know where I would have played in 2006.” (39:54)

• Defining Moments & Film Study

  • Woodson lays out how he became a student of the game, crediting film study and coaches for his evolution from athletic dominance to cerebral leader.
    • “For me, it just … over time, I got gradually even better at it.” (44:40-45:11)
    • “It’s not how you line up, it’s how you wind up.” – Charles Woodson

• On Being Unfairly Labeled

  • He shares how being doubted and called a “bad team guy” undermined his confidence—a rare experience for him.
    • “I was kind of hurt, man … throughout my whole life, I’d never been in a position where people doubted me. … That kind of broke me down a little bit.” (45:51)

• Transitioning to Leader/Veteran

  • The transition from looking up to veterans to being the respected leader in the locker room is discussed; Woodson credits Tim Brown and others as foundational influences (48:39, 54:54).

7. Life After Football: Mental Transitions & New Passions

• Retirement and Fulfillment

  • Woodson talks openly about being ready to retire — and knowing when he was done.
    • “If they cancel the game today, I’d be okay. … As soon as I said that to myself, I was like, ‘It’s over.’” (61:59)
  • He admits he thought about quitting after signing with Green Bay, but honored his contract and played one more year—launching a Hall of Fame second act (46:40–47:29).

• Entrepreneurship in Wine & Whiskey

  • Woodson explains how training camps in Napa Valley got him into wine, leading to his Intercept label and, later, Woodson Whiskey.
    • “If I don’t go to the Raiders, I’m probably not into wine and probably not into whiskey. … There was an opportunity. I don’t know why I saw it, but I saw it. And then, bam, here we go.” (63:39)

• Family, Legacy & Next Generation

  • Woodson describes managing expectations for his sons, their ambitions and his “unofficial” expectation they don’t attend Ohio State.
    • “There’s just one place you can’t go. … Ohio State. Come on, man.” (56:50)

8. NFL Personalities: Favre, Rodgers, and Locker Room Chemistry

• On Favre and Rodgers’ Transition
  • Woodson saw no visible tension, as defensive players “didn’t really pay attention to it” (58:18).
    • “We knew it right away … when Brett leaves, we’re going to be f—ing spoiled.” (59:53)

9. Memorable Moments & Personal Stories

• Woodson and the hosts exchange stories: being a college star, charity event run-ins, and wild early NFL days.
  • “All of you offensive linemen, man … you guys are crazy.” – Charles Woodson (78:22)
  • “What I tell young guys is like, I hope you make it to the other side … but you don’t know unless you get over it, right? I’m happy you made it to the other side.” (78:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Michigan’s 2023 Title:
  “It's not even that we won the game, it's how we won the game.” – Charles Woodson (03:36)

• On Handling Adversity:
  “We had every excuse not to achieve the goal of winning a national championship.” – Cal Penn (05:11)

• On Heisman Night:
  “My whole body just went limp. And if you watch it, you see Randy [Moss] on the side. He’s like, get up. So he nudged me.” – Charles Woodson (20:32)

• On NIL/Transfer Portal Era:
  “It used to be where if you went to another D1 school, you had to sit out a whole year … What, Coach? All right, don’t worry about it. I won’t be here tomorrow.” – Charles Woodson (27:53)

• On Being Labeled:
  “I had some asshole in me. I ain’t gonna say that. … But in terms of a bad locker room guy, nah.” – Charles Woodson (41:18)

• On Retirement:
  “So I fulfilled myself as a player, and then I got to come out of retirement and play again for six more games. … I wouldn’t trade it. … My journey has been—I wouldn’t trade it.” – Charles Woodson (62:58)

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:36–05:58 | Michigan’s cultural shift, Harbaugh drama, and 2023 national title run | | 12:08–15:49 | Woodson’s “bend the knee” story and Michigan practice memories | | 17:56–21:42 | Winning the Heisman, Peyton Manning rivalry, shock of award night | | 22:48–30:36 | NIL era, transfer portal, building teams in modern college football | | 38:02–41:02 | Leaving the Raiders, bitterness, and Green Bay saving the day | | 41:02–47:29 | Film study, leadership, challenges of being doubted, bouncing back as a pro | | 54:54–56:46 | Great locker room leaders and talking to his sons about expectations and attending Michigan | | 59:40–61:55 | Retiring, feeling fulfilled after 18 years, knowing when to walk away | | 63:39–66:07 | Entrepreneurship: wine, whiskey, and Raiders loyalty | | 75:56–77:03 | Raiders hire AP, Club Raider cigars, and the power of a team responding to a new coach | | 77:03–79:33 | Taylor’s wild Michigan story, early NFL challenges and lessons for young players |

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a full-circle look at the relentless drive and community spirit behind Charles Woodson’s legendary career. The mixture of storytelling, playful jabs, and honest reflection provides both nostalgic and insightful perspectives for football fans and anyone interested in building greatness through adversity and loyalty. Woodson’s love for Michigan, candid insights on the changing landscape of college athletics, and thoughtful approach to leadership and legacy truly set this interview apart.

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Go Blue!

Transcript

[Charles Woodson]

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[Taylor Rooks]

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[Charles Woodson]

your bananas these winged demons came to

[Taylor Rooks]

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[Charles Woodson]

Save the everyday with Amazon. What's up y'?

[Cal Penn]

All?

[Taylor Rooks]

Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another.

[Charles Woodson]

You hear something, you stay a little longer.

[Taylor Rooks]

Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be.

[Charles Woodson]

It's those in between moments.

[Taylor Rooks]

That's where the ideas hit.

[Charles Woodson]

Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you.

[Taylor Rooks]

Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color.

[Charles Woodson]

That chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it.

[Charles Woodson]

Funny how one small stop becomes the

[Taylor Rooks]

best part of the day.

[Charles Woodson]

Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks.

[Taylor Rooks]

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[Cal Penn]

After two starter doses.

[Charles Woodson]

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[Taylor Rooks]

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[Cal Penn]

Charles Woodson, the Go, the defensive goat.

[Taylor Rooks]

I mean, you are one of the best of all time, bro. It is an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.

[Charles Woodson]

I appreciate that, man. You guys are shaping up to be of all time, too, on the field. What you doing on the field, dude? You really mean that right here?

[Taylor Rooks]

Because we tried getting. I remember I was. I. I was. Either we were on Twitter going back and forth because you was in Nashville one time. Yeah, I think we trying to get you, but, yeah, everything was way too tight, but, man, tried to make it

[Charles Woodson]

happen, but, yeah, the timing was off a little bit. But, you know, we. We. We did it.

[Cal Penn]

Finally got it done, man. We got to obviously jump into Michigan. Like, for how many years have we just been shitty? And now finally we put it all together this year, man. What did that mean to you as an alumni?

[Charles Woodson]

Well, you know what's crazy is that it wasn't that we were shitty. We just couldn't beat them guys. We couldn't beat Ohio State, man. Like, that's really what it was like. When you think about Jim when he came in, Jim was winning nine, ten games a year. But then we get to that last game, and we could never get over that hump, you know? So when we think back to Michigan and we see that we had a shitty year. You know what I mean? And so these last couple of years have just been like, dude, I don't even know how to explain it. You know, it's just. It's. It's not even that we won the game, it's how we won the game.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah. Like, and with all this, all the storylines throughout the year, too.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

It's not just that game. It's the season, right?

[Taylor Rooks]

Penn State, the hardball. Getting suspended right before the Penn State game, as they're traveling, he's getting told all while they're on the tarmac, literally.

[Charles Woodson]

And I was at that game. Cause I was working with the big noon kickoff crew that weekend. And we get there and they're like, yeah, I don't know if Jim's gonna be able to coach today. We're like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, you know, he was on the plane. He got the word that he might not be coaching. We're like, on the plane. Like, literally on the plane to Happy Valley. You talking about he can't play? I mean, he can't coach. So. Yeah, just a lot of different storylines. You know, this particular season with him putting people in place. Mike Hart was a coach, won the game Head coach. And then Sharon Moore, who's got the job now, he was a coach for like three or four games. And those guys, you know, just looking at, looking that situation in the face and just being like, it don't matter.

[Cal Penn]

And it's such a, it's such a massive, like, statement to the culture of Michigan because they had every excuse not to achieve the goal. Goal of winning a national championship.

[Charles Woodson]

Right.

[Cal Penn]

And like, you, obviously, you don't have to expand on this at all, but how pussy was it of the Big Ten to try to implement some sort of bullshit band aid? Hey, we're going to punish him. Tony Petiti, as they're flying to Penn State and doing all that, that's just bad ball. There's no due process there. And so. But the thing I like about it personally is that if there were all these allegations and they never took Harbaugh off the field, then it'd be like the true asterisk to a national championship. But because you put all the adversity on and off the field towards the Michigan players right now, it's like there's, there's truly, like, it didn't matter what got in their way. They were winning a national championship. Yeah, that was so big.

[Charles Woodson]

It truly was a Michigan versus everybody. Yeah, you know, the, the, the, the phrase that they coined and also the other one was bet, you know, they, they had that. I forget after which game it was, but it was just to say, all right, you guys are going to put, put all of this on our plate. Bet we'll handle it. And that's exactly what they did. And, you know, being in Happy Valley and, you know, that being, you know, our toughest game at that point on the schedule, and then coming out in that second half, and I think they threw the ball one time and then from there on it was like just old school Michigan football for a whole half. Like, just, just take this, take this, take this. So, yeah, it was fun, man, the whole, the whole ride this year, man. I mean, you know, we were riding along with them guys, man, just on cloud nine every week. And then when they capped it off, I was able to go to the semifinal. Pasadena didn't make it to the championship game, but watching that championship game and the way they performed, the domination, you know, that, that, you know what, let me go back because you talked about the culture and that was important with this team because of all of the guys who said, I'm coming back, I'm coming back because we got unfinished business. And then they actually did it. Like that was, that's pretty special, man. So I'm happy for them guys, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

What's it like knowing that you guys brought that Michigan, your guys university brought a national title in 2023 and it's been since what, like the 1940s since you guys last won a national title?

[Charles Woodson]

97, man. I knew he did it on purpose. I know what he did. I know that was good. Okay, I see, I see how it is. See how the show's gonna be.

[Taylor Rooks]

Taylor and I, obviously, we always go back and forth. I mean, you guys have been whooping our ass for a while.

[Charles Woodson]

It was funny.

[Taylor Rooks]

I had to get that in because it's always like if I'm, if I'm put up against Taylor, Dave Portnoy, we go back and forth if I try to throw Nebraska and It's like all 1997. Personally, I feel like as a player you like being the coaches pole national championship more than the AP national champion.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, man, you know, when you, when you guys got up there and start crying, you know, after the season about, you know, our coaches leaving and man, we deserve it, we like, what the hell is going on? Right? You know what I mean? So you guys begged your way into that little spot, the knee too.

[Cal Penn]

The coaches were just like, I guess we'll just give it to him then.

[Charles Woodson]

Like, really? Come on.

[Taylor Rooks]

I mean, we, you know, Nebraska beat and it's funny because Charles is like, he's a play. He was a player. He was on the Michigan team. Like, we're like, I'm just sitting here like, oh, we Nebraska.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, yeah. You're eight.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, eight years old. Hey, but Nebraska beat Peyton Manning led Tennessee.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh man, they did, they did.

[Taylor Rooks]

They did average over 40 a game. Michigan average 20 something. However, their defense, you guys, we were

[Charles Woodson]

pretty mad about that too because we, we go out to, you know, Washington State, we're like, all right, you know, Tennessee, you know, give these boys a fight, you know what I'm saying? Because that's going to help our cause. If they go down there and struggle and Nebraska goes down there and slaps

[Taylor Rooks]

them boys, it's like, oh, damn, what's it like? Because you guys had, you guys play more like top 10 teams that year, like, oh, I'll say the Big 10, like back in the 90s, like you guys had more of those teams in the top 10. But like as a player, are you kind of hoping you get dealt. I don't remember how it worked with the bowl game selection back then, but are you hoping you get like the Higher matchup or did you already kind of know you were going to play the Pac12 champion?

[Charles Woodson]

It was Pac12 championship, so I think we were a year before the bcs, so if it was a year later, we would have had a chance to play.

[Taylor Rooks]

It would have been. It would have been Nebraska.

[Charles Woodson]

We'd have had a chance to play Nebraska, but we just. I know, one year too early, man. So, yeah, we went out and played winner of the PAC 12 and they played, you know, Nebraska. So that's just the way it. That's the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

When you're. When you're doing all the Big Noon stuff and it's your. Essentially your job, your obligation to be as unbiased as possible, but all this stuff is, like, going down.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

How do you catch yourself in Happy Valley thinking, all right, Harbaugh's not on there, but you're on the sideline. I think there's a clip of you and it might have been Desmond Howard as well. Like, getting hyped up. Like, are you, like, trying your best?

[Charles Woodson]

No.

[Cal Penn]

Not to get excited.

[Charles Woodson]

No. Like our producers and, you know, everyone who brought me in, you know, at Fox, they know that when it comes to Michigan, it is what it is. Like, when I'm on the set, I'm rooting for Michigan. If I'm on the sideline, I'm rooting for Michigan. I'm going to be biased as biased can get. So there's no secret. Yeah. But when it comes. When it comes down to, like, really talking about the game, like keys to the game, how Michigan is going to win, Ohio State is going to win, I. I'll give the real. But as it, you know, in terms of where my loyalties lie, it ain't no secret.

[Taylor Rooks]

You enjoy covering college more than the NFL. Cause I know you was doing NFL before you signed on with. With Fox.

[Charles Woodson]

Nah, NFL is where it's at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love the NFL, man. And college is too many damn teams.

[Taylor Rooks]

In college, there are a lot of teams I feel like you. Like, I enjoy the school spirit of college because you just know you're pulling for your team no matter what, versus the NFL, like, playing on a few different teams. It's like, it's more of like a player driven. Like, I'm kind of rooting for guys. And, yeah, I like to see the Raiders, the Titans, Washington do well. But like that, the connection with your. With your school spirit in college. Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

It ain't nothing like it. It's nothing like it. And, you know, I get asked that question, like, you know, you know, why you. Why do you feel the way you feel about Michigan? You know, why you love them so much? And I. I answered this question not too long ago, and I think it's like, for me, it was the first place I was trying to get to, you know what I'm saying? Being a high school athlete and, you know, you're getting all of these letters and, you know, you're working towards, you know, trying to do something bigger than playing in high school. Like, Michigan was like, I'm trying to get there. You know what I mean? And it was a dream come true to, you know, sign there and go to Michigan. And so, you know, that love of, you know, you know, trying to get to a destination and reaching it, you know, was a big deal. So, you know, that's why it runs deep.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah. You had a really good interview on the pivot. And I'm trying to recall. Can you tell the story about there was a game where coach held you out and you're like, I'm not going to go in and say sorry. And then your mom's like. Your mom's like, hey, if you're not going to apologize yourself, do it for me.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

Can you retell that story?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was just crazy because my, you know, we had played. I think I forget who the game we played before Ohio State. But anyway, I had my back locked up for whatever reason, and I talked to the trainer. I'm like, hey, man, my back is locked up. I don't know why I can. I can barely move. He's like, oh, don't worry about it. You don't have to practice today. And so I was like, great. But when I walk out to practice, I don't have any Michigan issue stuff on. I just got my school stuff on. And Coach Carr's like, what are you doing? I'm like, what? He's like, where's your uniform? I'm like, oh, man. I talked to Smitty. Smitty said I didn't have to practice today. He was like, I don't get in there and put something on then. So I go in, I put some other stuff on, but I keep my white shoes on that I wore to school. What do you got on your feet? I'm like, what, man? Get in there and put.

[Taylor Rooks]

Did you know what you was doing when you went back in? Like, are you feeling like coach is trying me a little bit?

[Charles Woodson]

A little bit? Yeah, a little bit. But this was 96.

[Cal Penn]

96.

[Charles Woodson]

So a week before Ohio state game. And so I came back out, and then I'm on the sideline and talking with some of the fellas, and coach, he singles me. Hey, Charles, come here. Go over there to the offense. Hey, you need to pay attention. I'm like, coach, I'm paying attention. Like, what's going on, man? Well, if you're going to be on the sideline, you're not practicing, you need to pay attention. I'm like, all right. So I walk on the sideline. A few periods go by. He calls me back over there, woodson, get over here. I'm like, damn, what is going on today, man? Go over there. Hey, if you're not going to pay attention, you can just leave. I was like, all right, I'm out. So I left. I went back to. I went back to the dorm, and little time passed, day or two, I don't know. I can't remember the timeline of that. But I get called down by my position coach, Vance bedford. He's like, hey, listen, coach wants to talk to you. When you go down there, just go ahead and apologize. And then he's going to let you play this week. And I was like, coach, nah, I'm not apologizing. He's like, listen to me. Just apologize. So I go down there, me and coach talk a little while. And he's like, ah, you know, do you think you justified yourself by walking out of practice? I was like, yeah, man. Cause I don't feel like you gotta make an example out of me in this whole thing. He was like, all right, well, you ain't playing this week. I was like, all right. I got up and walked out, went down there back to coach Bedford's room. And he was like, all right, what'd he say? I said, I'm not playing this week. He said, boy, I told you, don't go down there and say nothing but just apologize. Hold on a minute. He gets on the phone. My mom answers, Ms. Woodson, I told this boy, don't go down there and say nothing. Yeah. He called my mom, man. And my mom gets on the phone, what's going on? I'm like, I'm not playing this week. She's like, why? I was like, man, you know, me and coach got into it and this or that, and coach wants me to apologize. I ain't apologizing. She was like, okay, well, just do this. If you're not going to apologize for yourself, apologize for me. And I was like, yeah, are you kidding me? She broke me. She broke. So I Man, I had to bend. You talking about bend the knee? I had to bend the knee, man. And so I went down there and I was like, coach, man, you know, it's my bad, man. You know, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have walked out of a practice. And that's all he wanted. He was like, all right, you're playing this week.

[Taylor Rooks]

So Charles Le walking in the hall

[Cal Penn]

to the office, he kind of hit

[Charles Woodson]

the door like, you should. You should have. You should have saw how slow. I walked down there to his office too, I bet. Dude, I was. I was fuming.

[Cal Penn]

Yo, you brought up Schmitty, who's a Michigan, like the head trainer for the longest time. He's the guy that, like, you get an X ray. Like, Schmitty, what the X ray say? X rays don't talk, friend. Kind of keep walking.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, smart, smart Alex.

[Cal Penn]

Smart Al Smitty, and then Big John.

[Charles Woodson]

Big John.

[Cal Penn]

Do you have any Big John stories? Because I'll. I'll preface one real quick. So obviously, I was in the dark ages of Michigan with Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hogan. No disrespect to them. It was just that time that the alum would come by and be like, hey, y' all suck. And that's just what it is.

[Taylor Rooks]

It's tough always having the guys in the 90s. Like, we had that too. Where guys. You guys aren't?

[Cal Penn]

Well, we had. When we were at the Ohio State game this year, some guys came up and we were talking, hey, what years were you there again? I was like, oh, 9 to 13. Like, yeah, that's. That's a tough time. But when Rich Rodriguez. I'll bring that. When Richard, he just first got the job, there's a story that Big John would go and at like five in the morning and get on the elliptical in the weight room, but naked, nothing. And he was like a sloppy body cat. Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

And he was just butt naked on

[Cal Penn]

the elliptical, sweat and dripping everywhere, all over the place. And he was just in like the most fun way. Crude. Like over the top. Like kind of just a horny old guy. But he was like. That being said.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I. I don't. I don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't have the stories. Like, some of my teammates have more in depth stories of. Of Johnny, but Johnny was. Big John was kind of like, Like family guy, you know what I'm saying? Like, just inappropriately funny guy.

[Cal Penn]

You know what I'm saying?

[Taylor Rooks]

Like, you be like, you always got one.

[Cal Penn]

Everybody watching the most innocent, fun way possible. Soil like Johnny.

[Charles Woodson]

What Johnny? He did, he said what? He did.

[Taylor Rooks]

What? Right.

[Charles Woodson]

You know, so yeah, he, he was, he was that guy, man. But he was a great guy. But yeah, it was a lot, A lot of stories. A lot of stories on Big John. A lot of stories. I can't. I can't tell.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

What, dude, what was it like? I know you've probably been asked this so much, but what was it like winning the Heisman over Peyton Manning? I mean, and two, it's like it's paid Manning, you know, quarterbacks who. It was, it was also Ryan Leaf, Randy Moss, but the quarterback, Peyton Manning, he's got the, the complexion for the protection and you end up, you end up winning the Heisman, like being a two way player. What was that like when you won that?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, it was. What's crazy is that we got three, three first ballot hall of Famers on there. Me, Peyton and, and Randy. And then at, at the time, you know. Yeah, you got Ryan Leaf there. Who everybody thought, man, he's gonna be the guy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. With him and Peyton coming out, a lot of people had Ryan Leaf ahead of him. But the thing about it is that, you know, I thought throughout the season, I thought I played myself into a position where people recognize who I was as a player and I thought I was the best player, but I didn't think I was going to win the Heisman. Like there was no way, you know, I was going to win a Heisman over Peyton, man. It just wasn't, it wasn't going to happen, you know, the whole season coming in. I think he had came back for his senior year, that year. So, you know, that was, that was really all of the talk, you know, unfinished business, pain.

[Cal Penn]

Man.

[Charles Woodson]

He came back for his, you know, his senior year, like, wow, what he's doing for the university, he's coming back for his guys and he's coming back to win the Heisman Trophy. Like that was a foregone conclusion. And so, you know, season carried on and what was great is watching the 30 for 30 that they just had.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Came out and. Because a lot of stuff you don't, you don't remember, but they had that, that little ranking each week of who was ahead. Like you had Peyton. And then it was, it was a running back I saw maybe it was Tavian Banks or something. Tavian Banks. And then like I was down here on the bottom and then I might move up and then Peyton may move down and this guy may move up. So it was really interesting how it kind of played out throughout the year. And then when Michigan State happened and the one hand catch happened, then I kind of stayed steady in a certain place. And then Penn State happened, playing both ways. Caught a touchdown pass. That game I'm playing against Jury Vicious. And I remember they asked me before that game, you know, did I think before or after, did I think I was the best player in the country? I was like, yeah, I'm the best player in the country. But still not thinking they going to, you know, I'm not winning or, like, put you over. Yeah, not gonna happen.

[Taylor Rooks]

Such a. Like a focused position, driving numbers, like.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, it's a numbers game. Yeah, it's a numbers game, you know, and so. And then Ohio State happens, and then here comes, you know, the ceremony, and it's like, I'm. I'm there in New York to have a good time hanging out with Randy, hanging out with all the guys, and just this is. This is a cool experience. And then, you know, Rudy. Rudy Risk, I believe it was, opens an envelope and he's like, from Michigan. Oh, man. It was like my whole body just went limp. And if you watch it, you see Randy on the side. He's like, get up. So he nudged me. I'm like, damn. I just wouldn't.

[Taylor Rooks]

What was the highest you got on the list, like, throughout the year to where maybe you had an inkling, like, maybe there's a dark.

[Charles Woodson]

No, I think. I think I got up. I think I got up to one, I believe. And. But it kind of. It just rotated. So it was one and two, Right. Maybe three, then two, then one. So it was. It was kind of cool, you know, to. To see some of the footage because, like, I said a lot of that stuff, man, it's a long time ago for me, but a lot of stuff. You don't. You don't remember interviews that you did, you know, certain things other people said. So. Yeah, man, it was cool to relive that.

[Cal Penn]

How people don't talk about this, but, like, you win the Heisman, obviously, such a surreal moment. Your blood's pumping. Like, how stressful and nervous were you giving the speech, accepting your Heisman Trophy, dude?

[Charles Woodson]

I didn't have. Yeah, I didn't have. I had nothing. Yeah, I had nothing.

[Cal Penn]

Thank you. Family.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Like, yo, this is like, probably.

[Taylor Rooks]

Probably without the footage. He probably doesn't even remember.

[Charles Woodson]

Like, well, I remember, you know, getting up and of course, you know, thanking my mom and then. And then I. I know I probably did. I made some Reference to somebody else who I thought should have won it but didn't win it. And then finally they got it right or something. Something crazy like that. But I didn't, I didn't have a speech because I was like, like I said, I'm here to just enjoy this moment.

[Cal Penn]

And I get up and write nothing down. No, it is kind of. It's kind of a bad look. Not a bad look, but when they pull up the crinkle piece of paper.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like to do that. Just as a general rule. I don't like to read from anything. If I, if I'm talking, I just like to talk. But yeah, I went there, man. Just nothing, man. Do you.

[Cal Penn]

When you think about like the college football landscape now, all the nil stuff, how would you had to be going crazy?

[Taylor Rooks]

You'd have probably.

[Cal Penn]

You would have been. I mean, you've been a seven figure cat.

[Charles Woodson]

I got, I got, I got one year left.

[Cal Penn]

You trying to get out? I got one year ride the bends up, make seven figures.

[Charles Woodson]

I'm just saying plays.

[Taylor Rooks]

How many plays you think you give to a college game in college? Right, Right now, if you play college?

[Charles Woodson]

I'll run that right now.

[Taylor Rooks]

You think so you don't think you'd be blowing a hammy out there?

[Charles Woodson]

No.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, listen, I don't know if anybody told you, you got a little, little salt in that beard.

[Charles Woodson]

A little bit. A little bit, A little bit.

[Cal Penn]

I believe in Charles.

[Charles Woodson]

I still run around a little bit. I still get after it. Yeah, I give, Hey, I give. I, I give him some work out there. Straight up in college. Oh, yeah. I could play anything. Anything.

[Taylor Rooks]

He'd be like Travis Hunter.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Charles Woodson]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like yeah dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you

[Taylor Rooks]

to Mint Mobile today.

[Cal Penn]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] this

[Taylor Rooks]

is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. As a fellow dude, do you ever get that not so fresh feeling in your butt? That's because you're probably using the dry stuff to wipe wet. Extra large flushable Dude Wipes get what toilet paper leaves behind in your behind. You wouldn't clean the tail end of your truck with dry paper towels, so why would you wipe with dry toilet paper? Wetter just cleans better. With Dude Wipes there are no more dingleberries, no more itch and irritation, just a deep down the seam. Confident Clean Plus. Unlike baby wipes, Dude Wipes are extra big for adult hands. You're not a baby so keep them on hand so you get nothing on your hands. And speaking of on hand, Dude Wipes come in different scents and pack sizes, including a single use on the go pack that you can take anywhere. For that home field advantage, stop being an A hole to your B hole. Drop the toilet paper. Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes Best Clean Pants down Amazon

[Charles Woodson]

Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here

[Taylor Rooks]

to talk about my downtown.

[Charles Woodson]

Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful. I'd be like him. Yeah he he truly plays both ways.

[Taylor Rooks]

I think that is like 100 he

[Charles Woodson]

has 30 plus plays a game like crazy. I I tell people like I I like dibbled and dabbled on offense. I didn't play A whole lot of offense. It just seems like it. He plays offense and defense, like, literally, like, everything. That's crazy. Yeah. That's cool.

[Cal Penn]

When you, like, don't come off the field, right?

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

That's crazy.

[Taylor Rooks]

Where do you think he's better suited on offense or defense?

[Charles Woodson]

Man, I think receiver. I think he's nasty at receiver. Yeah. I mean, he's a good corner, don't get me wrong. But I see his. His offensive skills, man. I think his offensive skills dominate over his defensive skills.

[Taylor Rooks]

What's interesting, too, is, like, your story back when you were, you know, with your mom and coach and, like, not playing, like, situations like that. I feel like these days, like, you could just. If you're upset, you could just bounce, eat quick.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, yeah. And not have any. Any repercussions. Like, it used to be where if you went to another D1 school, you had to sit out a whole year, and so now it's like, what, Coach? All right, don't worry about it. I won't be here tomorrow. You can just leave.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Do you think, like, with you. When you're a freshman admission, that, like, was there any type of time, if there was an opportunity to go on the transfer portal, that you might.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, that time we talked about with Coach Carr. So when I went back to my dorm room, it was funny because we had a couple of guys who visited the University of Miami.

[Cal Penn]

Were you in West Quad?

[Charles Woodson]

I was in. I was in West Quad, yeah. And. And so after practice, a couple of guys, my. My boys, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

What happened?

[Charles Woodson]

I was like, man, I don't know, man. Colts tripping, man. I said, man, I'm out of here, man. It was like, what I said, man, this. Man, I'm going to Miami, man. I'm transferring out here. I don't want to be here, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

We going, too. We.

[Charles Woodson]

We, man. Let's do it. A serious. So we had, like, a little mutiny going on for, like, 24 hours. Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

A little crude, you know, dismantle the University of Michigan.

[Charles Woodson]

Like, man, I'm leaving. But. But I think that's probably how it happens, you know, with a lot of guys. You know, you have a altercation with a coach and you go back to the room and there's nobody to talk you down from that ledge, and you're like, I'm out. I don't. I don't got to deal with this. And nowadays it's easier than ever to say, I don't want to deal with it.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

It makes it so much more difficult to keep Accountability in a locker room that's so important in football.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

To keep dudes again.

[Charles Woodson]

And that's what. That's what's hard with. With Michigan did with. And the reason why I feel like day one and were so dominant is because they really had grown men out there. You know what I'm saying? We got a bunch of juniors, seniors, guys who came back. And so if you look at what Ohio State is doing right now, they're trying to buy all these players, trying to get all this quick fix. It's hard to build it that way. You know what I'm saying? If you're trying to do that every year, you gotta have kind of a nucleus of guys that are coming back and you can build a program with. So, um, it's gonna get harder and harder, you know, for coaches to kind of maintain that. Because there used to be truly, like, a. A loyalty to school. Now it's just a loyalty to you and what you can get, you know, trying to get the most out of it for yourself. So it's gonna be hard for coaches.

[Cal Penn]

Cause that's such an interesting thing is, like, having loyalty to yourself and your school. Even when you play. When we play, like, that was still there. Like, you still wanted to benefit yourself playing well and the team do well, as you know, at the same time. But now it's like, it's wild west.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

With Ohio State, the way they're setting up this year, they're spending so much money in nil, bringing these guys in there. If they don't. Essentially, if they don't win the national Championship.

[Charles Woodson]

Right.

[Cal Penn]

It's. It's.

[Charles Woodson]

Right, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Like, it's over.

[Charles Woodson]

So that's. That's the. That's definitely the type of pressure that you put on yourself if you say, all right, I got the best guy up from here, the best guy from here, best guy from here. And then you get them all together and it doesn't work. It's like, you know, people start looking at you real crazy.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

And you see, like. Go ahead.

[Taylor Rooks]

I was just gonna know if you got more in college. I was gonna start to dabble in the NFL world, but I got a

[Cal Penn]

couple more things on college just this year. Sean more obviously, like, I'm a massive Sean Moore fan. I think he deserved that job.

[Charles Woodson]

They made the right smash.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, he is. He's the dude for. For the university, but he lost a lot of players. Like, 18 dudes are probably gonna get

[Taylor Rooks]

drafted in coaching staff.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah. Lost the dc Lost the string coach, which I Think is like the most devastating loss. Like we had the opportunity to go there and meet Incredible. He was kind of going.

[Charles Woodson]

Strength and conditioning.

[Cal Penn]

Yes.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, man, that's my guy, man. Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

How he evaluates hips, knees, everything. The grading scale they put everybody on. Like, you walk away from that being like, damn, I wish.

[Charles Woodson]

No, he was next. Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

When I was playing because it was like a guy like, this is a dude you have for all of college. And then in the off season, you're back in Ann Arbor, like, whatever you can.

[Charles Woodson]

I took my son up to a little two, two day camp they had up there, and he just had a, you know, certain easy way that he does pull ups. I went back home and I was doing them that way. You know what I'm saying? That's the kind of guy he was, man.

[Cal Penn]

So a couple little tricks.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

What's like, like, like most reasonable expectation for the University of Michigan in 2024 season?

[Charles Woodson]

I think it's gonna be tough. You know, looking at the schedule I was looking at the other day, we got Texas coming in, second game schedule.

[Cal Penn]

Washington, usc.

[Charles Woodson]

Right.

[Cal Penn]

So UCLA State, Ohio State. I think we got Oregon too.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. And, and you know, you just look at it, Texas, they have their guy, their quarterbacks coming back. You know what I mean? So they have, you know what we have is a lot of guys leaving. Our quarterback leaves. Then you got a Texas team that just was in the playoffs as well. They're still building on that and still have a lot of things in place. And then they got their quarterback coming back. So I think it'll. It'll be, it'll be tough sledding for him just because he's re. Rebuilding it. Like you said, there's nothing. I don't think anything hurts him more than losing staff, losing guys that were in there in place. You know, losing being strength and conditioning coach. You lose your defensive coordinator, you know, he's gone. A few other guys have. Have left as well. I think Jim's. Is it Jim's son that's on the, on the staff that he just left? Jim Harbaugh?

[Cal Penn]

I don't know.

[Taylor Rooks]

I'm not even sure you would assume he's taking a couple offensive guys.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

So a lot of, a lot of guys left, man. So I don't know. It'd be, it'll be interesting, but it's gonna be a. It's gonna be a tough sled.

[Cal Penn]

The Ann Arbor best place to go eat college kid. I got the place in my head right now, but I don't want to start.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, I mean, with nil.

[Cal Penn]

No, no, no, no, no, no. We're talking. You got those little chips, those little coupons that are like.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, for me. For me, it was Cottage Inn.

[Cal Penn]

Cottage did hit.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think we.

[Cal Penn]

It's a little pizza spot. And did you guys get the. The little pieces of paper, the chips?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, like 15 bucks on ours.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, See, ours was. You got, like, two medium pizzas and like, a soda or something like that. You go smack one of those things. Barbecue chicken. It was nice.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

We are. This podcast is Mr. Spots.

[Charles Woodson]

Mr. Spots. Yeah, like Mr. Spice. But me. But me. I was. It was. I was. It was pizza for me, man.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

And Cottage in. They had. They had the. They had the best pizza. And I always felt like Cottage in was out of all the places that we could get. So, you know, he had Mr. Spice, you had Cottage Inn. And we only had, like, four different places. You can go from, like, that one to me was like, the most, like, I felt like I was really doing something if I went into college. Cottage Inn and got something. You know what I'm saying? The restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like. Yeah. You know, I felt like I was doing something. You know what I mean? So Cottage Inn was that deal last.

[Cal Penn]

Last polish was. When we go to the NFL, top five players, University of Michigan history. But not like, obviously, like, the argument here would be Tom Brady. Like, would Tom Brady be a top five Michigan football player?

[Charles Woodson]

Not in Michigan. Right, right, right, right.

[Cal Penn]

But you have one, so you don't have to do it yourself.

[Charles Woodson]

I don't got to put myself in there.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

What? What? What could I put myself in? Could I put myself in offense and defense and I can be in there.

[Cal Penn]

You can do that. I like that.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, man. That sounds pretty tough, I'm gonna say. Desmond. I'd have to go. Anthony car. That's tough. Let's get my man Hutch in there. Steve Hutchinson.

[Cal Penn]

Test sneaky with one. Maybe Jake Long.

[Charles Woodson]

Okay, so I got two receivers in right now because I've already over that mode, and I got two. So that would be two offensive tackles or no choice of the guard.

[Cal Penn]

But also Blake Hor.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. Because you got some recent guys in there. Let's put Blake in there. Let's put Blake in there for what he did these last couple of seasons. And he's rocking the deuce out there, too. Let's do that. So that's. That's five, right?

[Cal Penn]

That's five.

[Charles Woodson]

That's five. Okay.

[Cal Penn]

That Was a tough question.

[Taylor Rooks]

Help me out. Is, was Blake's stats overall better than Hart?

[Cal Penn]

Oh, yes.

[Taylor Rooks]

Okay. I just remember being young and hard.

[Charles Woodson]

I don't know. I think touchdown wise for sure. I think because he got a bunch

[Cal Penn]

of touchdowns downs by any Michigan player.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

And he like, I think he blew it out. I didn't blew it out. I think he beat about one or two.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

But did it with only like three years starting as opposed to. Was it Anthony

[Charles Woodson]

Thomas?

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, he was at like 55, four year starter and he got like 4, 57 or 56. My cart had 5, 000 career rushing yards.

[Charles Woodson]

My guard did was real.

[Cal Penn]

Bernard had four, four, four.

[Charles Woodson]

What the corn? What the corn have.

[Taylor Rooks]

He's number seven, 3737.

[Charles Woodson]

All right. Yeah. But the thing is, even even though you have the. All the yards and stuff, it's still about impact too.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Like his impact on the team is. Is one of those things that, you know, it might not be top five in Russian or whatever, but his impact on coming back, you know what I'm saying? And then his impact just. Just his presence on the field, man. So like my man Burke. Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

I don't even. I mean, you had such an incredible NFL career as well. It's kind of like hard to focus on something or start somewhere. But I am curious, like, you're one of the greatest Raiders of all time and then you had that stint in Green Bay where you played a lot of good ball and then you come back to Oakland, like when you were in hit free agency like you were somebody France, you was. You were franchise tagged, right?

[Charles Woodson]

Yep.

[Taylor Rooks]

So like was there when you left Oakland the first time, was there like bitterness with the organization when going to Green Bay? Like, because you obviously came back around to Oakland but being such a great player for them, when they kind of like let you go elsewhere, was there like any resentment? Was there any bitterness of the business per se?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, kind of. Because I never thought that I would leave Oakland. And the bitterness was more so with, you know, like the GM at the time. So not necessarily just Raiders, it was just the gm, you know. And I think at that time, you know, you know, they, you know, told my agents or some something that there was, you know, no value to bringing me back to the Raiders. And that was coming from. From that side. And so it was like, you know, saying, what are you talking about? So yeah, it was, it was a little bitterness in that regard. But I was also, like I said, I didn't think I would leave There. But then it was I franchise tag, so I was free so I could go anywhere. So I thought that, you know, I was gonna have my. My picket or litter, you know, anywhere I wanted to go, you know, I was gonna be able to go. And it. Man, it was. It was dry as the Sahara out there. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it was. It was kind of crazy. And so, you know, I went in thinking one thing, and then my experience wasn't all that great, you know. And so through the process, Green Bay began to call my agents and. And, you know, wanted to bring me in. And, you know, I was reluctant. I was like, nah, you know, I'm not going to Green Bay, so there's no. Really, no. Really no reason for me to visit there. And so called again. And when everything was really, like, quiet from. From everyone else, and I had my agent reaching out to other people and nobody was biting, so I was like, all right, well, let me go to Green Bay, because we gotta at least try to draw some interest from. I go there, maybe somebody else would be like, all right, well, some other people are checking for him, man. It was. It was crazy, yo, but if Green Bay didn't want me, I don't. I really don't know where. Where I would have played in 2006.

[Taylor Rooks]

Really?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, really.

[Cal Penn]

Why do you think it was so dry?

[Charles Woodson]

Like, the free agency market, you know, just. There was a lot of. A lot of things out there. One, I had. I did come off an injury. I broke my leg in 2005. So I missed the final 10 games of the season. And then people talked about my attitude and talked about, you know, just a lot of different. Different things. And so. And I think some of that came from the Raider side as well. Just, you know, putting some stuff out there, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. Because. Because Mike McCarthy asked. When I first met with Mike, because it was his first. I think it was his first year, was my first year. He asked me about it in our meeting. He was like, oh, what is this about you, you know, being a bad, bad team guy, bad locker room guy. And like, man, you can't talk to any players I play with that, say, I'm a. I'm a bad locker room guy. So I don't know where that's coming from. So there were some things being, you know, put out there that muddied the water. And so, yeah, it was just. It was. It was a little tough. Tough period, man. To kind of go through as a guy who I had Done everything, you know.

[Taylor Rooks]

Oh, yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

So I'm like, damn, that's how they, that's how they really feel.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah. Did you, did you have any moments that you felt like they were defining you by, that you might have had lower moments while being on the Raiders that allowed them to say, what's this about you being a bad team guy?

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I had some asshole in me. I ain't gonna say that.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

But, but in terms of, you know, player and, you know, guys in the locker room, nah, it wouldn't, it wouldn't have been from that. But, yeah, I mean, I had my, I had my, my issues with coaches at times. You know, I like to hang out, do my thing, you know what I'm saying? Outside of playing football. So, you know, maybe that could have had something to do with it. Who knows? But in terms of being able to play the game and, you know, just overall, you know, good dude.

[Taylor Rooks]

I'm a good dude.

[Charles Woodson]

You know what I'm saying?

[Taylor Rooks]

Can you speak to, like, your development in the, the film room? Because obviously, like, you're a guy. You were, you were an All American coming out, Heisman Trophy winner, top five pick. Like, you have all the accolades, right? Like, it's like, oh, he's the most. He's just so talented. He's super talented. But I was fortunate enough to play with Will Blackman for a couple years, and when Will and I, we would, we'd have our sushi nights and stuff, but he would talk about you as somebody who was always, like, last in the building, and he would learn a lot of his study habits from you. You feel like you had those throughout your entire career. You developed them as you got older because he always said the best things about you. I feel like something like that, like being a student of the game, kind of get slept on when you're somebody who has all the accolades in the world.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I think it, it compounds over time because you, you, you do start out, you know, like, myself, I was, I was a great athlete, so a lot of stuff's going to come easy, you know, so you don't necessarily have to spend as much time looking at certain things. But the one thing that I, I, I've always had as a player was I, I've had great play recall, you know what I mean? So when you're out there on the field and you see certain things, you start to pick up on tendencies like, I always had that without necessarily having to look at film. And so then, you know, as your career goes on you take different, different methods from different coaches, like Vance Bedford, like I remember, you know, just going back to a certain play. We played Northwestern my junior year and it was a third and long situation and me and him had went over what they like to do in that situation and they, they ran out and I picked that out off. So different things you pick up from different coaches. Chuck Pagano was another guy who worked on me on third down as well. You know, being around him, I learned a lot on third down tendencies, you know, that being money down. And so over time then you start developing your own style of how you like to see things. And so for me, like I said, I always had good play. Recall what I would start to do in my studies. I would start to watch the game from the opposing team's one yard line all the way to the one yard line, but in the same personnel. So I want to see you from the one to the one same person. I want to see it in all parts of the field. Because you'll run certain things from 1st to 5, 1st to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 40, 40 to 20, 20, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of it mirrors what you do from here to here, you know what I mean? So, like you take a wheel, for example, you know, I would have my film broken up certain ways, and then I would tell those guys, this is how I like to look at the film. And so we would, you know, when we'd have our times together in our film room, we would look at the film and then we start going over these things now. And when I would see something that would kind of. They may get to it a different way, but it's the same thing. I would go back to it. All right, now watch this. Watch how this team lines up on this plane. Runs it now watch him motion to it and run it. But it's the same thing, you know, So I was always taught, it's not how you line up, it's how you wind up. So, so those are the things that I was able to, you know, pass along to those guys. And for me, it just. Over time, it was, I got gradually even better at it.

[Taylor Rooks]

You know, you found like another way to prepare and be like, okay, add it to your game. And that, that fires me up as a defensive guy. That's, that's, that's football porn right there.

[Cal Penn]

It seems like you had a good way of simplifying things.

[Charles Woodson]

Exactly.

[Cal Penn]

Motions and stuff like this is the same thing. Just a little extra dressing on it. Yeah, like, to go back to, like, the, you know, tough locker room guy, or these being put into a box of a category of your character. For Charles Woodson, how, when you're hearing these things from different coaches, from different GMs, like, how did you. Is that, like, motivation for you? Like, I'll prove you wrong, and this is why, or how do you handle those types of things when someone might be putting you in a corner and saying you're like this, when you truly don't feel you're like that?

[Charles Woodson]

Actually, I was kind of. I was hurt, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that kind of hurt, you know, because I'd never, throughout my whole life, had never been in a position where people doubted me. You know what I'm saying? Never. And so that was a period where it was like there was some doubt cast over me as a football player. Now, you may not like me as a person or whatever that is, but, like, on the football field, like to have somebody say, man, he can't do that anymore. He's always hurt. He's injury prone. He's that. And that's like, damn. Like, that kind of broke me down a little bit. And so when I first got to Green Bay, you know, there was just a period in there where I was like, damn, I don't even want to play football no more. You know what I'm saying?

[Taylor Rooks]

At Green Bay?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. When I first got there and I first signed, you know, I. I. I called a few people who are close to me, and I was like, yeah, I think I'm. I think I'm gonna hang it up. And. And it was my. My agent at the time, Kevin Poston, he. He said, hey, man, he said, you signed the contract, right? I was like, yeah, I signed the contract. He was like, well, that's like giving your word. And I was like, yeah. He was like, you at least. At least need to play one. At least play one year. You know what I'm saying? Because you've signed the contract, you gave me your word, at least need to play one year. And so I was like, yeah, you know what? That makes sense. That makes sense. So, you know, I. I got through that little period, and then, you know, things just kind of just started to take off and slow down in Green Bay, where I was like, all right, I'm back.

[Taylor Rooks]

You guys had a good team, too. It looked fun. Like, everybody talked about your schematics defensively. Why am I forgetting his name, Coordinator?

[Charles Woodson]

Well, that was later. You talking about Dom Capers. Okay, that was later on, when I first got, there was another guy. But we. But in terms of having fun, we had a great group, especially secondary wise. Al Harris, Nick Collins, Tremond Williams had just come in. Some other young guys, Atari, big beats. So like our secondary, you know, then young Will comes in. We had just some young good guys on that secondary, man. And it was great because, you know, when you talk about Will, I have some young guys that kind of looked up to me and so, you know, kind of watching what I did and you talk about the film study and all those sorts of things. So then it really became fun because. Because then it was almost like a responsibility. How am I going to get the help these guys, you know, get to the next level? Yeah. And it was really about going out there and showing them for the most part. But then just those little things, like, you know, finding your own way to watch the film. That makes it easier for you. Right. And then you grow from there.

[Cal Penn]

When did you find that transition of, like, when you first get in the league and you get in a locker room with a bunch of NFL players, you're like, oh, that's the so and so. Oh, that's this guy. And then eventually it flips where people are coming in. They're a fan of you now. Yeah, yeah, now you're. Yeah, you're a hunk. You're the dude that people are like, yo, like, let me watch film with you. And like, where. Where do you think that switch turned for you in your NFL career? It was like, okay, I'm now the guy that's supposed to be leading. Not following, if following, for lack of a better word, because you're always going to do you when you're young. It's just like, you're looking up to these guys now. Guys are looking up to you.

[Charles Woodson]

It was. It probably started around six years in. Because that's when. Because so when I first came in, like, Tim Brown. Tim Brown was in the locker room. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Napoleon Kaufman, who I watched in college and then he was with the Raiders. Who else do we have, man? Dude, I just saw him to. I think of it a minute, but in a minute. But Russell, MD, Pat Swilling.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of earsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Charles Woodson]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Taylor Rooks]

This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. As a fellow dude, do you ever get that not so fresh feeling in your butt? That's because you're probably using the dry stuff to wipe wet. Extra large flushable dude wipes get what toilet paper leaves behind in your behind. You wouldn't clean the tail end of your truck with dry paper towels, so why would you wipe with dry toilet paper? Wetter just cleans better. With Dude Wipes, there are no more dingleberries, no more itch and irritation, just a deep down the seam. Confident clean. Plus, unlike baby wipes, dude wipes are extra big for adult hands. You're not a baby, so keep them on hand so you get nothing on your hands. And speaking of on hand, dude wipes come in different scents and pack sizes, including a single use on the go pack that you can take anywhere. For that home field advantage, stop being an A hole to your B hole. Drop the toilet paper. Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes best clean, Pants down.

[Charles Woodson]

Hello?

[Cal Penn]

Hello, this is Malcolm Glabel from Smart talks with IBM.

[Charles Woodson]

Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development

[Taylor Rooks]

for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Charles Woodson]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Cal Penn]

I'm still working on rolling my R's,

[Charles Woodson]

but what I was able to learn

[Cal Penn]

from Stefano was the importance of engaging

[Taylor Rooks]

the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans. In the digital age.

[Charles Woodson]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Cal Penn]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long

[Charles Woodson]

history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space.

[Cal Penn]

I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Charles Woodson]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology, and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Cal Penn]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper

[Charles Woodson]

connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts I. I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here

[Taylor Rooks]

to talk about my downtown.

[Charles Woodson]

Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Health care just got less painful. It was crazy, you know what I'm saying? Because when you're young, you don't think you'll catch those guys because it seems like. It seems like it's far away. And then Jerry Rice came in, like, holy shit, these dudes are in the same locker room, you know, and so then around six years in, then those guys are gone. Tim's gone, Jerry's. He's gone now. So now those. Those older guys are kind of peeling off. And so now you're starting to be one of the older guys. And so then it kind of becomes, oh, man. You know, I used to watch you then as you get older, you get the Green Bay. Oh, man. Yeah, I used to watch you. And then all of a sudden, your grandpa, he's like, damn.

[Cal Penn]

A rookie comes in, they're like, yo, I used to watch you in high school. Yeah, yeah, high school.

[Charles Woodson]

Right, right.

[Cal Penn]

I really have been in the league for a while.

[Charles Woodson]

No doubt.

[Taylor Rooks]

Who are some of the best leaders you've been around? And maybe they weren't the biggest names either, but who are some of the best leaders that you've been around?

[Charles Woodson]

Like, Tim Brown was a great leader. I thought that one of my favorite guys who was. Who was with the Raiders when I first got there was Eric Turner, you know, who. Who passed away. Maybe like my. Maybe like second. Second or third year in the NFL. Eric Allen, you know, tremendous guys. Like, I feel like when I came in, we had. We had, like, real. Real veterans of the game, you know what I'm saying? You know, guys who had been through a lot and just, you know, they respected the game, you know what I mean? They had respect for the people who came before them. Like, I played with those kind of guys, man. And so I would say those are the guys who, you know, come off at the top. Off the top of my mind. When I first got in, you had a.

[Cal Penn]

You had two boys, right?

[Charles Woodson]

I got two boys, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Two boys. How has it been with them starting to play sports and you kind of like, hey, the expectation is not to win a Heisman and be defensive player of the year, first round pick? Like, how do you temper those expectations when your kids are looking up to you as a father, being like, I want to be like you and succeed you, essentially?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. It's funny because I have the conversation with them, and it's funny because there's two different responses. So, you know, I could tell my, my oldest, you know, hey, man, you know, look, you got all the talent in the world. You know, you'll be compared. We got the same name, you know, but you can't worry about that. You know, you just got to go do your thing. Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. He's like, okay. Yeah, dad. Appreciate it. I tell my youngest son, hey, man, you know, you don't gotta. You don't gotta be this or that, that. I'm gonna be in a hall of fame with you. So

[Cal Penn]

how do you feel when he says that?

[Charles Woodson]

I'm like, cool. You know what I'm saying? You got to speak it first. You know what I mean?

[Cal Penn]

So are you like, hey, you guys have to go to Michigan?

[Charles Woodson]

Kind of unofficially?

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they're, if they're highly recruited, man, are you gonna.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, dude. Well, I, I, you know, I do, I do. Tell those guys, man. Listen, I want you to be able to make your own decision wherever you, you know, when it comes to that point. But there's just one place you. You can't go. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Ohio State. Come on, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

Can't go.

[Cal Penn]

Okay, hypothetical. For whatever reason, your kids are playing, they're playing ball, they're getting offers, but they're like small D1 offers. You're getting some max, you're getting some. Some app state type of D1s. But there was one big team that comes in and happens to be Ohio State.

[Charles Woodson]

Here's my question, though. Why would you ask that question?

[Cal Penn]

I'm a disruptor.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

Ohio State's worth taking a shot.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. Okay. Full ride.

[Cal Penn]

Oh, yeah. What are we talking?

[Taylor Rooks]

You know, it's all full ride.

[Charles Woodson]

Hey, hey, hey, Nil. Oh, yeah, I might have put the sc. I bet. Hey, Nil. Full ride. Nobody else is calling. I might have to think about it.

[Taylor Rooks]

That would be so tough, games.

[Cal Penn]

You can walk in that stadium, you know?

[Taylor Rooks]

So tough for him, bro. Wearing red

[Cal Penn]

against Michigan he's like, hell, yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Hey, I'm gonna watch from the blimp.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, you have to watch from home.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

That's funny. That's a good question.

[Cal Penn]

That'd be a hard.

[Charles Woodson]

That be. That'd be tough.

[Taylor Rooks]

Were you in Green Bay with Far Van Rogers?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I first got there. Far was there.

[Taylor Rooks]

What was that drama like? You know, everybody got to see. You know, Far retires, he comes back. You know, they'd never. You know, they wouldn't see eye to eye. There's obviously been a lot of public conversation and. And, like, transparency or subjective opinion around it. Like, what was it like? Or be, like, being kind of, like, in that drama or around it.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, yeah, I think for. I think the guys on the defensive side, we didn't really pay attention to it because it's more. You know, he's in the. You know, Brett and. And a Rod, they're in the meetings together all the time. They're always on the offensive side. So we really don't. We really didn't get into that portion of it. The most interaction, like, for myself with a Rod is a Rod was on the practice squad, and so he would always go against our defense. So that was really all I really paid attention to, was that part of it. Now I remember that there was talks of Brett saying he doesn't really need to help the guy that they just drafted basically, to replace him. But I never really laid eyes on, like, visible tension between them because I wasn't paying attention to it.

[Taylor Rooks]

Right.

[Charles Woodson]

You know what I mean? So, yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't anything that I really could comment on because I was. I wasn't in the middle of. I didn't care.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

To be honest. Yeah. Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

No, that's.

[Taylor Rooks]

That's fair.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm trying to. I'm trying to win a Super bowl, and.

[Taylor Rooks]

And usually it's a coach. It's like, hey, we got a pretty good one over here and 12. And you're just thinking, like, yeah, he does a good job practice, but we should be there picking this ball off right now.

[Charles Woodson]

And we. And we knew it, man. We knew it right away. Like, when. When Brett was kind of in or out, you know, coming back or not coming back, and we would play. We would play, you know, against a Rod in those practices, and it was like, oh, yeah, when. When Brett leaves, we're. We're gonna. We're gonna be. We're gonna be f.

[Cal Penn]

Spoiled. Quarterback franchise.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. Found another one, it looks like.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

As you transitioned out of football. Like, how difficult was it for you to, like, did you feel completely fulfilled throughout your NFL career? Or was there a point when you first left where you're, like, you're lacking fulfillment? The competitive nature that first fall, not playing ball. Like, how did you handle that?

[Charles Woodson]

No. Well, two great things. One, I won a Super Bowl. So I think had I retired and not won a Super bowl, then I would always think about, man, what if. What if I would have, could have, should have, and that sort of thing

[Cal Penn]

right now, that hurts sitting on this side of the couch.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

AFC championship.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Cal Penn]

Sorry.

[Charles Woodson]

So. No, yeah, so I got that. And then when I retired, you know, I didn't. I really didn't know what, What I was going to do after I retired. But what happened was, you know, you get these, These. These articles that they, they write up about current players who are retiring, who may be good on television. And so after I retired, I went right into television. Right. I started work for espn. So I really didn't have time to really, like, be retired and, and be scared about that whole transition because I really went right into something. So I would say I'm very fortunate that that happened because I didn't have to sit around, like, looking back at, oh, man, I don't have anything to do. You know, football's gone, you know, so I was. I was blessed to have that happen. And then third, I would say I played 18 years, and so, you know, crazy, man. You know what I'm saying?

[Cal Penn]

That answer just turned my question. Fulfillment.

[Charles Woodson]

I played 18 years, and so I feel like the, The, The. The thing for me that I always think about is that I remember the morning where I knew I was done playing, and it was against Detroit. We're in Detroit. And remember looking out the window and it was snowing, and Detroit's in the. In the dome. So it don't. It don't matter. But I remember looking out and saying, man, if they cancel the game today, I would be okay. And as soon as I said that to myself, I was like, it's over. And so that morning, that day, I mentally, I retired. So I always say that I actually had. That was like, the 10th game of the season. I actually had six more games where I was able to play after I retired. So I fulfilled myself as a player, and then I got to come out of retirement and play again for six more games. So, dude, I, I, My. My journey has been. I wouldn't trade it.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

You know what I'm saying? I wouldn't Trade it. So.

[Cal Penn]

And when you were talking about, hey, I'm gonna rap. I'm gonna be done with my career. What year was that?

[Charles Woodson]

2015.

[Cal Penn]

2015?

[Charles Woodson]

Yep.

[Cal Penn]

So that's. I mean, imagine walk away from the game when you were with the packers, signing a contract.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I'm good. That would have been. Yeah, eight years. I would have played eight years, and I wouldn't be on busting with the boys, bro.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Hey, hey, you guys will be on here, you'll be like, remember that one guy? He won the highest minute. Remember? What was his name? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, bro.

[Cal Penn]

What got you transitioned into being an entrepreneur with the wine and the whiskey?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, so I. I got into the wine early, man. When I was with the Raiders, our training camp was in Napa Valley. And so, you know, each year, training camp, I was out and about, you know, great restaurants all over the valley, and everyone was drinking wine, like, all the time. Like, morning, noon, and night, always drinking wine. So I just got really interested in it and created my first label in 2005. And then around 20, 17, 18 intercept was born. So that. So first I was coming out of Napa Valley, now it's in Paso Robles. And then I kind of always wanted a spirit to be a part of, you know, just my experience. And so a few years back, met partner of mine now, and we started sourcing whiskey out of Kentucky, and that's where Woodson Whiskey was born. So, man, if. If I don't go to. If I don't go to the Raiders, I'm probably not into wine and probably not into whiskey. So it's one of those things where there was an opportunity. I don't know why I saw it, but I saw it. And then, bam, here we go.

[Cal Penn]

Will meant to ask.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, yeah. Oh, man. He could. Can he. We got any. You got any cups?

[Cal Penn]

We got something around here?

[Charles Woodson]

You got that. You gotta have something.

[Taylor Rooks]

You gotta talk about your relationship with. With Mark Davis?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, great, Great relationship with Mark, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

Are you Raiders over Michigan?

[Charles Woodson]

I'm. I'm a Raider fan, man. I'm not Raiders over. I can't do a Raiders over Michigan, you know, I mean, you're like one of the.

[Taylor Rooks]

So you're like. You're obviously an ambassador, but, yeah, you're always in. You're always in the mix with the. With the silver.

[Charles Woodson]

I was in the mix, man. And, you know, it's just all about, you know, a respect thing. You know, Mark respected the way that I played the game. I think you appreciate it, you know, When I came back the second time around and, you know, he had taken over and just, you know, playing on some teams that we didn't have a lot, but just watching myself go out there every week, you know, sometimes banged up fingers, messed up ribs and all, he's like, man, you showed the guys what it was like, you know, to be a Raider. So.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, Raiders do a fantastic job. I mean, I only played a total of like maybe 10, 12 games for the Brick. I. I do have a break.

[Charles Woodson]

You got a break.

[Taylor Rooks]

But to going off that, I feel like the Raiders do such a fantastic job of like, taking care of bringing

[Charles Woodson]

back the guy I want. Once the Raider, always a Raider.

[Taylor Rooks]

You hear it?

[Charles Woodson]

You hear it?

[Cal Penn]

Damn.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, you would have been a great Raider, man.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, there was some. There were some. There were some chirps.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, man, Absolutely. This is my commemorative bottle. So this is only. This, this is only sold in Nevada.

[Taylor Rooks]

This one right here.

[Charles Woodson]

Yep. Only sold in Nevada. So this is a two year straight whiskey coming straight out of. Straight out of Kentucky.

[Taylor Rooks]

Give it something, man.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, man.

[Cal Penn]

So as I pour the glass and I swirl it along, I can. I love the texture. Holding to the sides of the glass, slowly dripping back down. It's a really good way whiskey as you sip it. Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Charles Woodson]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that. That deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Taylor Rooks]

This is Julian Edelman from Games with Names. As a fellow dude, do you ever get that? Not so Fresh feeling in your butt. That's because you're probably using the dry stuff to wipe wet. Extra large flushable dude wipes get what toilet paper leaves behind in your behind. You wouldn't clean the tail end of your truck with dry paper towels, so why would you wipe with dry toilet paper? Wetter just cleans better. With Dude Wipes, there are no more dingleberries, no more itch and irritation, just a deep down the seam. Confident Clean plus, unlike baby wipes, dude wipes are extra big for adult hands. You're not a baby, so keep them on hand so you get nothing on your hands. And speaking of on hand, dude wipes come in different scents and pack sizes, including a single use on the go pack that you can take anywhere. For that home field advantage, stop being an A hole to your B hole. Drop the toilet paper. Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes Best clean Pants down.

[Charles Woodson]

Hello?

[Cal Penn]

Hello, this is Malcolm Glabel from Smart talks with IBM.

[Charles Woodson]

Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation

[Taylor Rooks]

with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development

[Charles Woodson]

for Scuderia Ferrari hp. Your pronunciation is. It's strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Cal Penn]

I'm still working on rolling my R's,

[Charles Woodson]

but what I was able to learn

[Cal Penn]

from Stefano was the importance of engaging

[Taylor Rooks]

the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans. In the digital age.

[Charles Woodson]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Cal Penn]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long

[Charles Woodson]

history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space.

[Cal Penn]

I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Charles Woodson]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Cal Penn]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper

[Charles Woodson]

connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here

[Taylor Rooks]

to talk about my downtown.

[Charles Woodson]

Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Cal Penn]

I like to put all around the mouth, no pause and take it. Because what I do like to do when I find the whiskey, which is different, is seeing how much it's gonna

[Charles Woodson]

sting as I as it goes down yeah, yeah. He's a swallow. Oh, God.

[Cal Penn]

It's got a nice sweetness to it.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

The temperature, as it goes down my throat. No pause. Is not harsh. It's not something that I'm gonna go and take down and be like, oh, that was a little tough. Maybe I should put something in there to take away that bite. Sits on the tummy just right.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, man.

[Cal Penn]

Hits that belly.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

You kind of feel like, oh, I have a warming sensation. If it's a cool day outside, I put that in there. I know internally I'm getting the heat I need. Overall, 4.5.

[Charles Woodson]

4.5 out of 5.

[Taylor Rooks]

I think I can.

[Charles Woodson]

I hope it's out of 5.

[Taylor Rooks]

Would you like me to go?

[Cal Penn]

Yeah. How did you feel about that?

[Taylor Rooks]

I'm close with what you're saying. I feel like I taste and feel a lot of the things that you're talking about. I think it's got a nice, sweet heat up front. Like, not too much of that peppery up front. You're kind of thinking to yourself, like, is it going to sting as it goes down your throat? It does nestle down your throat very smoothly. And now that I'm in my. My third or fourth sip, it's got a nice warm. Not like a harsh, where it kind of messes up your chest. So it's just sitting on your stomach.

[Charles Woodson]

It's very comfortable, especially on an empty stomach. I don't know if you've eaten. Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, I am hungry.

[Taylor Rooks]

And overall, I would give it a 4.5. Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

So we're going to take that as a nine out of ten.

[Cal Penn]

So our. Our dumb stick is. It's not about. It's always going to be 4.5 because nothing's ever perfect. But it's a description in which you hear that you can establish. Is that 4.5 out of 5? Is it at a 20? So that's for the viewer to decide.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I like that.

[Taylor Rooks]

Like, even a harsh, a bad whiskey would still get a 4.5. But you would explain it in a way of, like, that's not my favorite.

[Cal Penn]

I would say my eyes are watering. Not. Not a lot of taste in that. But it's a good whiskey.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. That's a good way to put that, though. I like the whole. I like the whole 4 out of 5 portion of it. You don't know if it's 4, 4.5 out of 150. 20, but it's 4.5. But I I love your description. And so I had to come out here to get this, matter of fact, not too long ago. And the first thing I thought was there. There was. There's a sweetness in it. But I couldn't put my finger on it. Like. Like what I. What I. What I. What sweetness? It was. So later on, I'll drink it again. I'll have some for you.

[Cal Penn]

Because it does. My first thought is caramel. Like, there's a caramel.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, you usually. You get a little. In your. Your bourbons. You know, you get a little bit of that caramel, a little bit of that vanilla. But. But there's. There's. There's something else, and I just can't

[Taylor Rooks]

because there's a lot of whiskeys where it'll sting. It'll sting your lips.

[Charles Woodson]

And you never get the right. Get the flavor right.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, Right.

[Charles Woodson]

So I needed to have. And I always want to have something that, man, you can. You can enjoy. You know, a lot of people want, you know, barrel strength whiskeys, you know, which is great. Got to put you a cube in it. That's cool. And we'll do some things like that as well. But your. Your everyday whiskey, what I want you to enjoy on game day, I want you to be able to enjoy it, you know, not just, you know, put the cube in or. Or I don't need you to do all that. Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

Do you like. Are you more of a fan of your whiskey or the wine?

[Charles Woodson]

No. I mean, they're both my kids.

[Taylor Rooks]

I know you love both, but if you're my babies, what wins more?

[Cal Penn]

What wins more right now? Who's your favorite child at this moment? You're not. You're gonna say, I love them both the same, but you're gonna think of one name first.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah. No, no.

[Cal Penn]

I'll tell you. Right. Okay.

[Charles Woodson]

I don't do the. I don't do the Dion thing.

[Taylor Rooks]

I love it.

[Charles Woodson]

I think it's hilarious. I love both my babies the same. They're my boys.

[Cal Penn]

But there's ones you bite more than others at certain times.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, what I would say, though, what I would say with the whiskey is that it's more interactive. That makes sense. Cause there's a lot of things you can do with it, you know? So if I was gonna have a party or get together or something, and we wanted to make a bunch of different things out of that whiskey, man, we got a whole range of things that we can do. We can make espresso, martinis, Manhattans, old fashions, paper planes. We. We can do all these different things, and we can make some with the wine as well. We do. We do a little. It's called a. At one of the restaurants I. I go that have both of my products. It's called the Intercept Sour. So it has their house made sour. Mix my red blend, which is not there in my whiskey, and they mix it in this nice little.

[Taylor Rooks]

I feel like you.

[Charles Woodson]

You know what I'm saying?

[Taylor Rooks]

Do you have a cigar? Not yet. I was gonna say I feel like you got the whiskey. Like, I feel like you got. You got the nice. The aged beard. That's really well done. I feel like you're a cigar guy.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Taylor Rooks]

Did you like that when the Raiders would pull that out after the victory? Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

Talk about.

[Taylor Rooks]

Talk about AP Getting the. Getting the head coaching job.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I think. I think Mark had to do it, man. Had to do it. It was a. A ground swell of support for. For AP and just the way he came in, man, and. And the way that the team just really responded to him, thought he had to do it. So I'm excited for him, and I was able to go and talk to him before they went and played Indianapolis. And I told the guys, I said, hey, man, I can't wait until I get the chance to come in the locker room and hang out at Club Raider with you guys. And so last game of the season against Denver, I got a chance to get into Club Raider. After the game, Max Crosby running around. Yeah. Hands me the cigar. And that was a moment, man. That was a real moment. And so I love it. I think AP Is going to. He's going to, you know, do a great job. I think he's going to, you know, hopefully, you know, he's a great talent evaluator along with the new gm, man. And they get guys in here that love the game of football and who want to be Raiders. And so if he can accomplish that. Yeah, we'll be right. We'll be right.

[Cal Penn]

And we appreciate you coming on.

[Taylor Rooks]

This has been incredible.

[Cal Penn]

There was one quick story I do want to tell. It was after my rookie year and I was in town. We were doing a charity event. I believe it was yours and Hutchinson's charity event. And I went to my old house because obviously a couple guys were there that I used to live at, and I was damn near blackout drunk.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

And I was on some extracurriculars as well.

[Charles Woodson]

You come a long way from that baby swimming pool.

[Cal Penn]

No question, dude. A car pulls up and Charles Woodson

[Charles Woodson]

walks up a little. You know, the little pools that you fill up for like 2 year olds.

[Taylor Rooks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cal Penn]

This guy sitting in it and we, you know, the, the. You've seen the house I lived on. It was like right on that main street called State Street.

[Charles Woodson]

Not far from. Not far from drunk, not.

[Cal Penn]

Not far from temperature. He pulls up because I'm supposed to go to that charity event tonight. I ended up going blackout. It was a terrible experience for everybody else but me. But he pulls up and all my boys are there. And you came up that me up. We talked for a second. I got back in that tub after you left, I felt like the man. I was like, you know, he just pulled up just to say what's up? And left.

[Charles Woodson]

Randomly riding down the street. Taylor, the one in a baby swimming pool, dog.

[Cal Penn]

It was.

[Charles Woodson]

I gotta see what's going on over there.

[Cal Penn]

That was an interesting time in my life. Will has heard some stories about me at Michigan and a couple.

[Taylor Rooks]

I know the Taylor I know.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, all of you offensive linemen, man, you guys are crazy.

[Cal Penn]

Nuts.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, you guys are crazy.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, it's definitely calmed down quite a bit. Thank God, because I would have good, good. Been out of the league.

[Taylor Rooks]

Who knows where you'd be right now.

[Cal Penn]

No, I'd be dead in the ditch somewhere.

[Charles Woodson]

This is what I tell people before you in is you, you. You're a different person now. You do things differently. And so we, we all came into the NFL, you played, you know, how many ever years, and you do a lot of dumb. And so what I tell young guys is like, I hope you make it to the other side. You know what I'm saying? Because a lot of people in those first couple of years, they get into some shit, they never recover. But if you can play long enough, man, and kind of just keep yourself somewhat clean and keep yourself fit and ready to play and you can get to the other side, man, it's so much, so much better. You know what I'm saying? But you, but you don't know unless you get over it, right? I'm happy you made it to the other side.

[Cal Penn]

Appreciate that, man. Yeah, it's a cool transition. It would be an incredible regret to not make that transition and then be sitting, you know, out of the league knowing like, man, what could I have actually done if I wouldn't have just got out of my own way? And so it was. It's really cool. But that moment was awesome, man. That was a very cool moment, dude.

[Taylor Rooks]

Thanks for coming on.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, man, this is awesome.

[Taylor Rooks]

Please subscribe hey, dad. Dad. Charles Woodson. Charles Woodson.

[Charles Woodson]

My man.

[Cal Penn]

Appreciate you.

[Charles Woodson]

Yes, sir. Go blue.

[Cal Penn]

Go blue. Hey, we got you this too.

[Charles Woodson]

Here's the truth.

[Taylor Rooks]

You could literally be adored by everyone and then come home and still get completely ignored by your own cat. It's classic cat behavior. But new Shiba Premium Puree is a lickable treat that changes all that.

[Charles Woodson]

They're protein rich, made with bone broth,

[Taylor Rooks]

and have the smooth, creamy texture cats go crazy for, especially when it's hand fed. Yeah, it's more than a treat. It's a fast pass to favorite human status. So feed your cat Sheba and go from totally ignored to truly adored in just 12 days guaranteed or your money back. Learn [e-mail] youm know how it's never really about where you're going.

[Cal Penn]

It's about who you're going with.

[Taylor Rooks]

The right people can turn any drive into a great memory. That's something Toyota really believes. They design vehicles around real life and real people.

[Charles Woodson]

The ones who make plans happen and

[Cal Penn]

bring everyone together instead of inside.

[Taylor Rooks]

Everything's built with passengers in mind. Comfortable seating, smart layouts and space that actually works so everyone can relax and enjoy the ride.

[Cal Penn]

There's room for the people, room for the stuff, and room for the moments

[Taylor Rooks]

that happen along the way. Because when people are the destination, your ride is important. Learn [e-mail] and find the vehicle that fits your people. Hi, this is Gronk from Dudes on Dudes. I'm here to tell you about protecting your end zone with wet extra large flushable dude wipes. Unlike dry wiping with toilet paper, dude wipes clear instead of smear wetter cleans better.

[Cal Penn]

Goodbye dingleberries.

[Taylor Rooks]

Goodbye itch and irritation. Plus, if you take Gronk sized Grumpies or as I like to call them, Gronkies Baby Wipes won't do. You need extra big dude wipes to handle the job. So don't fumble the ball with toilet paper. Stop being an A hole to your B hole and and start using Dude Wipes. Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes Best Clean Pants Down.

[Charles Woodson]

Introducing Taco Bell's new sweet and spicy Jalapeno Citrus Salsa. Made with bright citrus and real red jalapenos. You can get it with anything on the Cantina Chicken menu for a delicious tangy twist to make all your faves instantly better. And while Jalapeno Citrus Salsa is only available for a limited time, know this Jalapeno Citrus Salsa demands the spotlight. It's the sauce with main character energy. Get Jalapeno Citrus Salsa with anything on the Cantina Chicken menu for a limited time only at Taco Bell at participating locations while supplies last.