Will Compton (3:00)

I've been waiting for this day since your tweet the other day. So I'm, I'm ready, I'm ready to battle.

Will (3:05)

What was your tweet the other day?

Taylor (3:06)

So Greg was breaking down the, the.

Will Compton (3:10)

Let'S just keep it easy. He sided with JJ instead of me.

Taylor (3:13)

I sided with jj. Why JJ Watt was got in the comments. Greg was breaking down. Why you go for two when you're the Philadelphia Eagles down nine with like three and some change or four minutes left on the clock. And Greg was battling, he was out on the front lines. Jon Snow, anybody who was ready for war, he was ready to take the answer analytical war to everybody. The modern day football game that's being played.

Will (3:35)

Yeah.

Taylor (3:35)

And JJ chimes in under one of his tweets saying that he completely understands Greg from an analytic standpoint, but from a, basically like a human psychology, the momentum, an unquantifiable thing in football as players, when you're on the sideline, you don't get the two point conversion and then you're just deflated thinking, well, this pretty much isn't going to happen versus if you kick the field goal and you're down eight points. In your mind, we're down one possession, we're down one possession. Defense, we get the ball back three and out. We got to get our offense the ball back.

Will (4:06)

Right.

Taylor (4:06)

We can go down and tie this football game by getting a two point conversion. JJ was basically saying that I go up under jj. I'm like, jj, welcome to the war against analytics. And here's a guy that they all love to read that is essentially their bible. And it was a meme of, you know, like this, this, this male laying on the bed looking kind of, you know, kind of looking suspect. You're kind of looking suspect.

Will (4:27)

Okay.

Taylor (4:27)

And it was a guide to anal. And then I dashed it with lytics. So analytics. And that was, you know, I was just getting in, I was getting in the troll game with Greg and JJ just kind of sitting back like, I hope Greg sees this because every week he comes on breaking down a new Situation so great.

Will (4:43)

Did you respond to this?

Will Compton (4:45)

No, I went today is my response.

Will (4:46)

Okay, good. So you let it sit, you let it simmer. I'm sure you.

Will Compton (4:49)

I let it simmer. I felt like whiteboard forum. Yeah, this was a better forum.

Taylor (4:53)

He argued more with Emmanuel Acho on Twitter. Waiting, waiting for this show dog.

Will Compton (4:59)

You know, he piggybacked on it too, and gave his whole take about momentum and feelings and confidence and all the nonsense that we all get thrown down our face for the last 20 years in football, which actually means jack shit.

Will (5:13)

Hold on now.

Taylor (5:14)

Easy.

Will (5:16)

If you're in a game and your defense is playing good or bad, does that. Is that all right?

Will Compton (5:21)

So let's change your decision about this for a minute. Let's talk about this for a minute. So let's just take that Friday's game because that was the, the game that obviously spurred all of this, just this sequence of events. You tell me when the momentum was in whose favor? Okay, they go on a 12 play, 80 yard drive with three and change left, 12 plays, 80 yards. For anyone who watched that game, that offense was very hot and cold, up and down. They find their rhythm and they go on a 12 play, 80 yard drive. Who had the momentum?

Taylor (5:58)

Eagles.

Will Compton (6:00)

They went for two. And what happened?

Taylor (6:02)

They did not get it.

Will Compton (6:04)

So who had the momentum? Tell me why the momentum ended. I. I've been told the defense is reeling. You just had a great drive. The defense is tired, the defense is confused, the defense is on their heels. All the things that people tell us, why they fail.

Taylor (6:23)

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but if they.

Will Compton (6:26)

It's a very simple.

Taylor (6:27)

Well, what's a simple.

Will (6:28)

What's the non debatable 12 play, 80 yard drive and you're methodical, you're bad. Then you have a good. And it's kind of going back and forth a lot. There is a lot of argument to be like, hey, this defense has been on the field for a very long time. Anytime you can get a defense tired, now's your time to strike. So why not go for two in the situation now once again, once you.

Taylor (6:48)

Don'T get the two now, all momentum.

Will (6:52)

Now it goes back to the base.

Taylor (6:54)

Basically your chance of winning is now, you know, as close to zero as possible.

Will (7:00)

Yeah, yeah, but you guys.

Will Compton (7:03)

But if you kick, the extra point becomes nine. But you're forgetting the point that the idea was it could be seven, right? So everyone talks about, oh my God, you made your team down nine. Nick Sirianni didn't look at the clock and say you know, three minutes, I want to be down nine. He looked at the clock and said, I want to be down 7. So everyone leaves that part of the equation out and then all of a sudden we flip it and we go, well, if you were down eight, if you kick the extra point to be down eight and you do get the ball back because your defense is so motivated, then it's a foregone conclusion that it's a one score game. Even though we just saw a team three minutes ago try to score eight points in one possession and didn't get it. So when you do it first, the assumption is you're going to fail and it's going to be nine. But when you do it last, the assumption is you're going to get eight and make it zero. It's just, it's just nonsense.

Taylor (7:55)

Yeah, I understand. It's like. But I could be down 7. However, if I'm. If I were to ask you if there's three and some change, three minutes left on the clock, would you rather be down 8 or down 9 if you're about to be on.

Will Compton (8:07)

That's not the question I'd be. I'd rather be down 7. The question you have to ask yourself. This was my Twitter messages for the last four days. The question is not would you rather be down 9 or 8? The question is, would you rather be down 9 with the hope of being down 7 or would you rather be down 2 with 25 seconds left? If. Let's just give those two scenarios. Would you rather be down 9 with 320 or down 2 with 20 seconds left? Both cases you're kicking off. What's better?

Taylor (8:36)

All right. Are you saying in this scenario down to they.

Will Compton (8:39)

Because I waited to kick the. They waited to go for two. That's what everyone's telling me is the better option. And everyone always wants to say, oh, my God, with three minutes, would you rather be down eight or nine? That's not the question. That's apples and oranges.

Taylor (8:51)

Yeah, but you, you have the opportunity.

Will Compton (8:52)

Rather be down nine, failed two point with three and a half minutes kicking off, or would you rather be down two with under 30 seconds left, if not less, kicking off, down two. Which would you rather.

Will (9:08)

So feel like just because I didn't watch this game.

Will Compton (9:11)

No, but what would you rather be that. That's the.

Taylor (9:13)

In that. Yeah, yeah. If you're down two with 30 seconds left versus down nine kicking the ball off with three minutes left, I'd rather be down nine with.

Will Compton (9:21)

That's why you go for two first. That is the simplest phrase right there. That's why you do it.

Will (9:27)

But hold on. When we were talking about the Colts in the Chiefs game, we are talking about, you know, field position and when to strike. And basically you want to end the game in 60 minutes with a win. And if you're in a position, if you're. So my understanding is this. The Eagles score, touchdown, there to go, they are down nine and so they kick up pat. They're down eight and they go for two to be down seven. Am I following this correctly?

Will Compton (9:53)

Correct.

Will (9:53)

Okay. How much time is on the clock when they have the opportunity to go.

Will Compton (9:57)

For 2, 3, 23, 10, something like that.

Will (10:00)

If I'm the coach there, I'm kicking, I'm kicking the pat. Because your thought process is your. Do you have one of the best defenses in the NFL? If you have the ball last, then you worry about going for two later. By going for two and not getting two, you're eventually, you're eventually saying the game is going to be decided right now and by not getting it.

Will Compton (10:19)

But explain to me the difference. So again, but this is the part that I just have a hard time getting people to understand. Everyone says, oh, once you didn't get it, the game was over. The final three minutes don't matter. If you play the next three minutes down eight and you get the ball and you fail the two point play, the same two point play odds, they're less than 50%. So you're gonna fail more than you succeed.

Will (10:45)

Right.

Will Compton (10:47)

The fight, the game's over either way.

Will (10:49)

Right.

Will Compton (10:50)

The previous three minutes, when you were so motivated and felt so optimistic, they meant nothing because you ended up failing the two point anyway.

Taylor (10:58)

Yeah, but the difference is you don't know you're gonna fail when you're going for that two point conversion.

Will Compton (11:02)

When did you guys play blackjack?

Will (11:04)

Yeah, once in a while.

Will Compton (11:05)

Yeah, I know the answer. When you, when you have a 16 versus a dealer's 10, what do you do?

Will (11:15)

Well, the book says to surrender, but I hit.

Will Compton (11:18)

You hit. Do you? Some people stay.

Will (11:21)

Yeah.

Will Compton (11:22)

And it kind of, as someone who tries to play by the book, you look at them like, why would you do that?

Will (11:26)

Right. Yeah.

Will Compton (11:27)

Why are they doing it?

Will (11:29)

Well, there's no book. This is two completely different games. Because in a hand of blackjack, it's you put your money down, the cards are the cards, you win and you lose.

Will Compton (11:38)

Now I'm talking about the psychology of why do people stay on 16?

Will (11:41)

Oh, this. Because their hope is that there is a six or under under that face.

Will Compton (11:46)

Card, the hope is to delay the loss. Right. They mentally feel like I'm going to stay in the game longer and, but my odds don't improve. They actually go down. But the psychology is I'm not gonna bust. I'm gonna make the dealer flip his second card over and continue to deal out in the hopes of it just bouncing my way and getting in essence lucky. It's the exact same thing. We have a human condition where we want to delay, want to feel safe, but it's, it's insane. It doesn't make any sense.

Taylor (12:25)

There's zero motion in cards.

Will Compton (12:29)

I think there's a lot. I played last night. I'm in Vegas right now.

Taylor (12:33)

Yeah, in you. But I'm saying in the cards, like in the cards, there's nothing. Those cards are dead. Like, it's all analytics, it's all odds, it's all, you know, it's all straightforward. But when you got, you got the juice of all the players, like it could still, we, we, we'll never be in a world where we'll be able to take a, a two point play that happens early and then compared to if they would have ran that same two point play at the end of the game, like we'll never be able to.

Will Compton (12:55)

What do you think is more likely to succeed?

Taylor (12:59)

I saw the grass. But it's only, we're talking like a, a percentage point or two.

Will Compton (13:04)

But that's all we're trying to do the entire game is gain percentage points in NFL games, a percentage point here or there throughout the course of 150 plays. That's what every coach is doing. That's why people go for fourth downs. That's why people go for goal. To goes the entire game of the NFL right now is to, is to gobble up as many little incremental advantages as humanly. And hopes when they all add up to each other, it tips the scales in your favor. That's what all these close games come down to. That's all we're trying, we're not trying to gobble up 25% win share. You're trying to gobble up little bite sized pieces and do it multiple times and flip the game into my favor. If I don't know, it's just.

Will (13:48)

But listen, when you sit down with the coach before a game, they don't go, boys, we're playing a hard 57 minutes here. No, you're playing a hard 60 minutes. So if I'm a head coach and I am down by nine points, I could take the PAT which makes it a one score game with 330 left.

Will Compton (14:02)

It's not a one score game though.

Will (14:03)

It is a one score game.

Will Compton (14:04)

It's not a one score Game. It's a. I just tried. They just tried to score eight points.

Will (14:09)

It's a one possession game. It's a. Is that better?

Will Compton (14:11)

It's not a one position.

Will (14:12)

It is because now there is.

Will Compton (14:14)

You need can be.

Will (14:15)

There's drive and motivation involved with your defense saying if we get the ball back, we could win this last one and we can't win.

Will Compton (14:22)

You can maybe tie. Just so we're clear, okay, Just you can maybe tie.

Will (14:27)

You get the ball back, you get it, you score, then you win the game. But I'm saying if you have the opportunity to keep everybody in the game with time on your side. How many timeouts of the Eagles have they had?

Will Compton (14:40)

Three timeouts.

Will (14:40)

They had three timeouts plus the two minute warning and there's 3:30 left in the clock versus a Bears defense that, you know they've been very hot. But from a series to series standpoint, they're hot and they're cold. Our defense, hey, we're going to have you guys stand up, then you guys are going to have with timeouts, you have a minute 45 maybe with one timeout left, maybe no timeouts to march down the field with weapons on the perimeter that you haven't utilized correctly, get in the field and score. Now there's.

Will Compton (15:06)

They just did that. They just went 12 yards. They just went 12 plays. 80 yards.

Will (15:10)

10 seconds in the game, you're down by two. Now you go for it with 10 seconds left and you're deciding the game.

Will Compton (15:16)

And what happens if they failed.

Will (15:17)

If they failed, it's the same result as what we're talking about right now. But if they don't.

Will Compton (15:20)

Well, no, the difference is you're onside kicking with 10 seconds versus three and a half minutes.

Will (15:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the difference is you're also down by nine and you're onside. Kahian, how.

Will Compton (15:30)

What would you rather if you had to start a simulation? I just asked Will, if you had to start a simulation, forget all of it, forget how you got there. I'm telling you, you're kicking off right down nine with three and a half minutes or down two with 10 seconds and you have to step into that game. Which scenario are you picking?

Will (15:51)

Well, you're obviously going to take the 330.

Will Compton (15:53)

Of course you are. And that's why the scale tips to that decision making.

Taylor (15:58)

But if we don't need the simulation.

Will Compton (16:02)

You have to assume in both scenarios you're going to fail the two point conversion.

Will (16:06)

I think there is a win to prolonging the decision of the game if, especially if you're playing from behind. If you go and you take seven.

Will Compton (16:15)

But we know from 30 years of tracking is that it's just not true.

Will (16:19)

But it's 30 years and 50% to do two point conversion. What's the percentage to do an onside kick? 14%.

Will Compton (16:27)

But I don't want to do an onside kick. I'm not suggesting onside kick. I'm suggesting that if I get the game to seven, if you succeed on either two point first or second, there is no onside kick. The goal is not to try to introduce the onside kick by going for two to go down seven. You kick the ball in the out of the end zone and you play defense. You're not onside kicking. The onside kick is only activated by a failed two point try. The question is how much time is on the clock when you fail. That's the entire argument. Do you want to be down 9? Worst case scenario is you fail. Of course the goal is to not fail. Right? That, that's clear.

Will (17:09)

The argument seems to me is do you go for two on your second to last drive or your last drive?

Will Compton (17:13)

That's, that's, that's the entire argument.

Will (17:15)

That's okay. But you're, you're saying go for two on side. You're putting time stamps on everything for me as a coach based on.

Will Compton (17:22)

No, no, I'm not putting time. I'm just saying the only time you kick the onside kick, whether it's after the first or second touchdown is only upon a failed two point play.

Will (17:31)

Right?

Will Compton (17:31)

The question is if you wait to the second one, your onside kick, even the 5% recovery rate, even if you get it, there's 10 seconds left, the game's over.

Will (17:41)

But if you just kick the pat on that last drive with 330 left and you're down by eight, you're giving yourself a chance with the game on the line with 10 seconds left.

Taylor (17:50)

You have three timeouts and you. Whether or not all it takes is one possession to get you that eight point right.

Will Compton (17:57)

Well, it gives you. Okay. If we don't get anything accomplished on this call.

Will (18:02)

Crazy things.

Will Compton (18:02)

I just want you guys to wrap your heads around the entire Internet to wrap their heads around. For a million years we have been told that eight point games are one score games and they are fundamentally not. They are one score games 43% of the time. That is the league wide average this year of a successful two point try, 43%. So let's say the best team in the league is 48%. Just for arguments, it's probably I, but let's just say the team, it's below 50, right. For the most part, your odds of success are worse than your odds of failure. So to sit here. So let me ask you this. You're the offensive coordinator, you're down eight and I give you the ball with two minutes and 10 seconds left. So you can stop the clock one more time with the two minute warning. That's the best case scenario. You, Philly went out there. Run, Timeout. Run. Timeout. Run. Timeout. Punt. You got the ball on the plus side of the two minute warning. On the minus 35, you're down 8. Tell me how you handle that possession. Do you score fast, do you score slow? When are you trying to score and how quickly? Talk me through that. If you have the ball down eight.

Taylor (19:16)

I'm scoring with one second left and then I'm going for two and we're going to get the two and we're going to go into ot.

Will Compton (19:24)

So because you waited, all of a sudden your odds of success go up.

Taylor (19:28)

Well, it comes down to that last final moment. Everybody like this is. Then you get it every time.

Will (19:33)

Momentum too.

Taylor (19:33)

You're talking about hands on the knees. Everybody just focused in like this is it. We get this play. We going on T. Yeah. And we're going to take this team to deep water in overtime because we just scored the final 15 points of this game and we got them right where you feel. And I'll look at you, coach Geo kick this extra point. I'll get you that eight points here.

Will (19:58)

Okay?

Will Compton (19:58)

So again, over the last 25 years, over the last 25 years, teams that have scored two consecutive touchdowns in the fourth quarter. So I'm not just talking like in the first quarter. Meaningless. This so called pressure moment when everyone's so excited and motivation takes over and defenses are reeling and tired, all the nonsense that we're told, let's just assume that's the situation we're in, okay? In the last 25 years of a team scoring consecutive fourth quarter touchdowns and then attempting a two point try. So this exact situation, the odds of converting that situation go down. So when the defense is at their worst and the defense is reeling and they're tired and unmotivated and the sideline is excited and all this stuff that everyone's saying is Just powering our victory over 25 years, the rate of success goes down.

Taylor (21:02)

What if I would have me and you were talking, you're my head coach and I just look at you and say, coach Geo, I feel you. But in the last 25 years, has there been a gentleman named Willie C. With a headset on call and plays? And it's like, are you. And then I'm like, hey, Coach, Coach Geo, are you trying to quantify me with a metric right now? Are we going to go and try to win this football game in ot?

Will Compton (21:25)

No. Because if I'm the head coach and I'm doing my job, we discussed all these scenarios in team meeting for the last four months. And when the second the situation comes up, every single guy on the sideline knows exactly what we're going to do.

Taylor (21:38)

Right?

Will Compton (21:38)

There's no one sitting there going, why are we going for two? I don't want to go for two, I want to kick. I want to kick. You want to go for two, why are we doing this? And no one. Now, if they're doing that, the coach should be fired. But the best coaches, all of this is covered well in advance. Everyone is very clear on what the strategy is. And not on game day in the heat of the moment. That's how the best teams run their teams.

Taylor (22:01)

Yeah, no, look, I, I, I understand everything you're saying.

Will (22:04)

I, oh shit, you're quitting.

Taylor (22:06)

I'm not quitting. Like, I'm still like, to me, he asked a question, he's like, forget everything else. I want to give you a two option simulation. For me, I'm just asking myself, do I want to be down 9 with 3 and change left or do I want to be down 8 with 3 and change left?

Will (22:19)

Yeah.

Taylor (22:20)

And the, the point, you can't say.

Will Compton (22:22)

You want to be down 9 without leaving, without the.

Taylor (22:25)

It's like correct, correct.

Will Compton (22:27)

I would, but everyone leaves that part out.

Taylor (22:30)

Yeah. Yes. The, okay, down, down 9 with the potential to be down 7 or do we kick this extra point and just be down 8 with 3 and change left? Me like, it's like the data and all the graphs you're posting, there's only, there's the success rates and everything else with the. Whether it's third down or getting.

Will Compton (22:47)

That was just in response to me being told that the defense is all of a sudden I'm just gonna quit down nine. Which is absurd.

Taylor (22:53)

Right. Which I allowed data to let me know. Okay, well, the momentum thing might not be as real as you were thinking, but for me it's like if we're off just by a couple percentage points here. It's not like it's, it's end all be all that this is, this is not even a debate, not even an argument. Like, and if we're going through that situation well in advance as a head coach and we end up losing that game and I have a tweet that comes out, just be like I tried telling coach Geo just don't be surprised if there's a lot of backlash.

Will Compton (23:22)

Well, that's the bottom line. So let's summarize this and we can move on. The the number one preventer of teams making correct decisions that are actually in the favor of their team is 100% fear of the post game press conference.

Will (23:40)

Yeah.

Will Compton (23:41)

It is a much easier world to defend your point than mine because we've been conditioned for 30 years about one score and emotion and momentum and, and we've just been beaten over the head with it for 30 years. We had it done to us as players. We're gonna stop the run, we're gonna run the ball. We, we. It's like brainwash, right? It's like it's, it's, it's a poison. It's the way we've been taught for 40 years. It's very hard to shift that to what the top teams are doing, which is managing the game with these factors being decision making points. So to stand there at the end of the podium after I failed a two point play with seven seconds left as opposed to failing the two point play with three and a half minutes, even though we know that albeit small improvement, my win percentage and opportunity to win is actually greater. Doing what's Sirianni did the post game press conference. If he fails with 10 seconds left and they go, man, we gave it our best shot. The message is our guys really competed hard. We really bought into the end. We strive on fighting. We never gave up all this arbitrary nonsense. And they go, yeah, the players have to be better. The players didn't execute. But coach, you were great.

Taylor (25:02)

I'll tell you what, that, that's a, that's a very fascinating angle. I've never thought of it like that.

Will Compton (25:06)

It's the only. You think it's not hard for Dan Campbell to stand up there in the press conference when he goes over three on fourth down to lose a playoff game? Of course it is. And most coaches are not as strong as Dan Campbell. Just stand up there and go, it, it breaks my guts out. I hate it for our players, but if it happened again Tomorrow I would do it again because I know in my heart this is the best way to win analytics.

Will (25:32)

You know what just happened? You just got moneyballed.

Taylor (25:35)

Oh, yeah.

Will (25:36)

Brad Pitt.

Taylor (25:36)

I, I, like, I knew I was walking into this, into this dungeon of Greg Olson. I knew he was going to lay it out perfectly for me. Yeah, it's just there's times, it's like.

Will Compton (25:47)

When you tell people that crime in their city has gone down and the FBI data comes out and they go, yeah, but my house was robbed last week, so I don't think crime went down. It's like, well, what you experience, your one individual touch point is not representative of reality. It might be your reality, it might be your. But that's not the game we're playing where, like that's what's going on here. Right. Like we all put so much value into the ups and the downs. There was a sequence in that Bears Philadelphia game and again, you guys tell me where the momentum stopped and started. So the Bears punted and. No, I'm sorry. So Eagles. So the Eagles went down and scored a touchdown. They went five plays, 92 yards and they scored a touchdown. They missed the extra point. Okay, so they had a great drive. They missed the extra point, which no one's even talking about in this decision to go for two is the guy already missed an extra point to make it 10, 9. They then go on defense, they intercept Caleb Williams, they get the ball back. So they went. Touchdown, missed extra point. Defensive takeaway. Oh, my God. We've got all the momentum. You know what happened on the next Philadelphia drive?

Will (27:03)

Three and out.

Will Compton (27:05)

They fumbled.

Will (27:06)

Oh.

Will Compton (27:07)

So why did they lose all the momentum? They had all the momentum and they lost it. But then they got it back again and then they lost it because it was never a factor. They had good plays, bad plays. It's a football game. We've all been there, man. We're rolling and then a guy jumps offsides. Well, if we had all the momentum, why do you jump off sides? I don't know. Because it's nothing. It feels comfortable for everybody to explain these phenomenons of ups and downs in momentum means I don't really know what's going on and it just feels like that's what it is and it just, it doesn't impact the game. I'm not saying in the minds of the guys it doesn't matter. It of course matters. I would argue it's confidence, but it the game. Why in that four possession sequence did they have momentum, lose it, have it, lose it. Score, miss the field goal, I missed the extra point, take the ball away, fumble it back, then score, then miss the two point conversion. But I thought they had all the momentum.

Taylor (28:12)

He's good.

Will (28:13)

He's good. He's well spoken. He's well spoken. He has notes. Do you have notes? No, we don't have notes.

Taylor (28:17)

For me it's just, it's the, the values and the percentages aren't high enough yet. There isn't so much of a gap to where I do think this is going to continue to be an argument until this gap gets wider to where your 25 years goes to the last 40 years. The percentages are 49 versus 41 and not like you know, a couple percentage points.

Will (28:36)

Can I ask a question? Why do you hate. What's the difference if the percentages are low? Going for two on the second to last drive as opposed to the last drive. What's the big deal?

Will Compton (28:48)

The simplest way to put it is I just. And again, it's not my opinion. I just understand that 15 points is not a two possession game and that eight points is not a one possession game. They could be. It's dependent on the success of the, of the two point play. Right. Because I got to go eight and seven or seven and eight and I have to go eight to get eight. But I know over this season all of our the data is give at the high side as a coin flip. Some years it's a little bit lower, but it's usually between like 40 and 45. Maybe is upwards of like 49, 48. Let's just say it's somewhere in the 40s. That means the likelihood of getting it and I know are less than the opportunity to get it. So if I treat an eight point game as one possession and I let the game go all the way down and I fail, I have no hope. Not that an onside kick is an overly great option. It's just the only option. The only other option is to high five and walk off the field. So again, I'm not saying there's this like miraculous ability to extend the game, but I'd like to at least give myself the chance that the Cowboys had when they were down 15 and they went for two and they did recover the onside kick against Atlanta and they won this exact situation years ago. So like do people recover on site kicks at a high rate? No. But would you certainly have that in your back pocket with time remaining in the event you fail the two point conversion? The answer is yes. And I'd rather Recover that onside kick with three minutes than three seconds. That's it. If you continue to operate that a two point play is a foregone conclusion, Philadelphia just failed. If it was a foregone conclusion, they would have been down by seven. It's not a foregone conclusion that you're going to get it. So this notion of we're going to go play defense, we're down by eight.

Taylor (30:50)

And we're going to go in and.

Will Compton (30:51)

We'Re going to force overtime. I what makes you think I just watched you fail a two point conversion? So what, three minutes later changes it? I mean, you might get it, but again, we're talking a coin flip. You're going to rest it on a literally a less than a coin flip. That's it. That's the entire argument that all of us are making and no one can give me a reasonable stance that I would consider. If someone said, hey, actually Greg, this is why I'd be like, okay, I get that. But the only argument is we're going to just pretend were in this game for three minutes longer. And I would say if you end up going for two with 10 seconds left, down eight and you score and you fail, those previous three minutes of hope were just as meaningless as the three. The final three minutes. When you failed those three minutes of time, whether it's before you inevitably miss the two point conversion or after you missed the two point conversion, they're all meaningless minutes. Just because you feel optimism is irrelevant.

Taylor (32:03)

There's some good optimism. Like it's almost like if you missed a two point early, it's more anger that you feel.

Will (32:10)

Right.

Taylor (32:10)

Versus if you missed a two point late. I feel like it's more sadness, but sadness.

Will (32:15)

You have the ability to keep a team together longer.

Taylor (32:17)

Yeah.

Will (32:18)

As opposed to anger.

Taylor (32:19)

You miss it early, it's like, God, we suck. Why could we not hit this play? And then if you miss it on the last one, you're like, damn, we were so close.

Will (32:25)

And Greg, by your logic, I look at all of these games and it's like k, it was meaningless for the Saints to play this weekend against the Dolphins. I mean, there was an onside kick in that game. They scored 17 points, but Dolphins scored 21. So the sell full 16 minutes is now meaningless. Bucks beat the Cardinals 2017.

Will Compton (32:43)

So the Cardinals, why is the game meaningless? I'm confused.

Will (32:45)

Because you're saying that these three minutes are meaningless because you just prolong the inevitable pain. But all these teams losing, we're essentially prolonging their inevitable pain. So if we just, if we go for two early, it turns into why are we doing that? As opposed to doing the same thing late regardless of the same result. It's.

Will Compton (33:05)

I'm not making, I'm not making the argument that. The biggest argument that everyone makes. You guys are making it today is if you fail with three minutes to go after the first touchdown when you're trying to make it seven and then as a result it's nine at that moment. Will said you fight for 60 minutes, not 57. You guys are making the argument that the final three minutes of the game become meaningless because of the early failed two point play. I'm just suggesting they're meaningless even if you don't get the two point play at the end of the game. So that's just the argument that's being used against this, these other scenarios. Listen, for the Minnesota Vikings, the game I called yesterday once Seattle went up three, nothing. The game was over. It was me ended up winning 26, nothing. It didn't matter. There was at no point did it look like they were going to score a point. So again, I'm not sitting here saying that teams shouldn't play and teams shouldn't compete. Of course they should. I'm just making the argument in response to what's been thrown at me. It's like you ended the game with three and a half minutes by failing the two point play and I'm like a three and a half minutes that are meaningless. It's still depending on a two point try. You might as well figure it out sooner than later.

Will (34:14)

Yeah, yeah. It's all okay.

Taylor (34:16)

Understand you do a good job each week. I feel like I get to learn something new with you because I saw another gentleman, he quote, tweeted you like, this is why you are who you are in your job and your seat. I do, I think you do a great job breaking this stuff down because I've always, not always, but kind of been like push back against the analytics.

Will (34:36)

Stuff because they're just anti analytics.

Taylor (34:38)

Not fully anti analytics. Like I, I get, you know, like going for two and you're down 14 or whatever it is and you're or down 10 and you score, it's like, okay, you got to go for two here. I wrap my head around that. Like going forward on fourth down. I'm beginning to wrap my head all around all these scenarios. I'm going for it on fourth down. I've been a slow burn on the analytics. I've been more the angry old white that's like, ah, that's not how you do it. Like, I want to play. You got Jalen Carter, you got Zach Bond. Like, you play defense.

Will (35:04)

Defensive mindset.

Taylor (35:05)

Yeah, defensive mindset.

Will Compton (35:07)

Before is the mindset.

Taylor (35:08)

But I've. But all to give you the.

Will Compton (35:10)

I'm not debating any of that.

Taylor (35:12)

Listen, I know you're not debating that. I'm trying to give you a compliment right now, and I just want to.

Will Compton (35:16)

Say I think you do a hell of a job, attitude and all that. It matters.

Taylor (35:20)

Yes. Yes.

Will Compton (35:21)

But it's not going to make you more or less inclined to. I guess my take is think of.

Taylor (35:26)

Us all on the sideline. Like, you kick the extra point, go down eight. We're all on the same team together. It's like we're staring at each other. It's like, get us the ball back. Like you pilling.

Will Compton (35:34)

Well, if you took the field energy Will. If you took the. I don't believe you. J.J. watt, the Eagles, these. I just have a hard time believing. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I have a high opinion of you guys.

Taylor (35:51)

Oh, no.

Will Compton (35:52)

I just have a very hard time believing that you guys kick that extra point down eight and you take that field with piss coming out of your. And you're just ripping to go play defense, and all of a sudden it's nine, and you say, I quit.

Taylor (36:07)

No, you're. You're spot on with that.

Will Compton (36:09)

So I'm less hard. I don't think J.J. watt plays any less hard. I don't think you're playing less hard. I don't think the Eagles are competing less. I think you guys are professional football players. And whether you're down 7, 8, 9, 20, the expectation is you're going to play your ass off.

Taylor (36:27)

Yes. No.

Will Compton (36:27)

You so looking at your teammate in the eyes and going, we've got a shot. Let's go win one for the Gipper.

Will (36:34)

I think it's.

Will Compton (36:35)

I think it's just nonsense.

Taylor (36:38)

I guess it's more of just the optimism and hope that is there when you're down eight points.

Will Compton (36:42)

Hope is not a strategy.

Taylor (36:44)

Oh, that was a good one, Greg. That's why. Dude, I love having you on every week, man.

Will Compton (36:50)

Why did. Why when Washington won the toss last night, did they go on defense?

Will (36:54)

Because.

Taylor (36:55)

So they could have the ball last and go for two.

Coach Ryan Day (36:57)

Of course.

Taylor (36:59)

And they had the perfect play dialed up, bro. When that running back, when he motioned, when he motioned from outside, and I saw that they weren't in a full cluster, the receivers weren't in a true bunch, but close enough together to Where I'm like, I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the Denver defense being like, man, a lot of guys are on the same level right now. They run this pick, play with the running back to the flat. Like this is going to be wide, dude. Once the running back takes off, I'm like, oh God, they got it. I see old buddy. I think defonga run into, run into one of his defensive players. They had it, bro. And then Nick Bonito just bats the ball down. They had the perfect play. Perfectly executed.

Will Compton (37:36)

Yes. But they had already made up their mind.

Taylor (37:38)

Yeah.

Will Compton (37:39)

That they were going to go for two. They wanted to know what they needed. So the big argument is no different than the argument we just had. You want as much information as early as possible to impact your decision making. And whether that's having the ball second in overtime or knowing when I need an onside kick or not, or knowing how many points I need, how many possessions I need. The entire gist of all of this is to control as many variables as humanly possible. That's the bottom line and that's why people use the data.

Taylor (38:12)

That's the end of the clip right there.

Will (38:13)

That's the other.

Taylor (38:13)

That's a, that's a. That's a good. Because I'll still have questions each and every week when something happens.

Will Compton (38:19)

In Vegas at 8am Because I couldn't wait to talk to you guys.

Taylor (38:22)

But now, but now pre will where I was more anti analytics is not going to be. I'm totally right about this. It's more anger. And then there's going to be a part of me that's like, wait till we get Greg on and he can break this down a little bit more for me.

Will Compton (38:34)

Five years ago if you went for two down 15, I mean if you. 10 years ago, if you went for two down 14 after your first touchdown to make it six, you would have been thrown off a bridge. That was so bizarre to anyone. What do you mean you're down seven and seven and you play for overtime. Why would you ever take it? Now you're going to. Now if people don't go for two after the first touchdown to try to make it six, people are like baffled. It takes time.

Taylor (39:03)

Again, that right there, that's going to take a lot of time for your boy Willie here. Like I'm thinking, okay, if you're going to go for two, you could just go for two at the end of the game when you, when you're sitting there, it's like, are they going to tie it up with the final extra point or are they going to go for two and try to win?

Will Compton (39:16)

What's more likely to convert a two point play going one for one or one for two?

Will (39:23)

That's not what you're arguing. He will's just saying when am I going to go for two? And the answer to will is I'm going to go.

Taylor (39:29)

And we're down 14, we scored touchdown. You're going to see Willie boy comfortably safely kick the extra point.

Will Compton (39:35)

But I'm asking you, let's say I go. Let's. Well my point, that's my whole point on all this. The 14 one is so easy because if, if I go for two and if I have to get a two point conversion, am I more likely to get a two point conversion? Going one for one, which is your scenario or just one for two, which is do it first. If I fail, I'll do it again and tie the game. Am I more likely to go one for two or one for one?

Will (40:00)

One for two.

Taylor (40:00)

Yeah, you're, you're more likely to go one for two.

Will (40:03)

That's a great point, Greg. That is, that, that's a point you make because I'm kind of sitting with you on that, being like you're up.

Will Compton (40:08)

Well, that's why you don't do it at the last one. Right. If, if the goal is to win the game, which it is, I'm still doing all of these.

Taylor (40:15)

Like I'm going one for one and my percentage is going to be 100%. Hell yeah, you are that. Like yeah, because you fail the first one, then the best you could do is tie the game.

Will (40:27)

Greg, this is an example of Will being out of the game very long. Like when Will was playing there wasn't this, you know, 40 to 40, no matter what, we go for it on fourth down. That's kind of like the norm now in the NFL. Like you get in the middle part of the field, you go for it. A fourth down when we were playing that was take a delay game punt. That was more of a strategy. It's really been in the last three, four years that this go for the fourth down thing has really changed the game in a lot of ways. I think it was Campbell and Quinn who are kind of like steam headed that whole entire thing.

Will Compton (40:58)

Yeah, they were the early adopters.

Will (40:59)

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Taylor (42:59)

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Will Compton (44:34)

How about the Panthers yesterday?

Will (44:36)

Yeah, insane.

Will Compton (44:37)

Like do they win that game if they don't throw two fourth down touchdown passes Right. In a game? They ran it 40 something times. But why did they win the game? They didn't win the game because they went 40 for 160. They won the game because they used fourth down and Bryce Young threw three touchdowns.

Will (44:55)

Yeah, absolutely.

Taylor (44:56)

That's great. That's great. That's, that's, that's great.

Will (44:59)

If it's four, that's great.

Taylor (45:00)

Going after you. Yeah. 40 times running the ball.

Will (45:02)

Here's why those plays worked better. Throwing those touchdowns is you're running the ball effectively. 4th and 1. They got everybody out there because, hey, we got Daddle in the backfield. Now we're playing a little press. We can get behind that, that secondary. So thank God they ran the ball 40 times for 1 6. Thank God, thank God. And I appreciate you bringing that up because it's all about gathering as much information as you possibly can to make the right decision. Right, Greg?

Will Compton (45:25)

Correct.

Will (45:25)

By running the ball effect effectively, they.

Will Compton (45:27)

Should have just, they should have kicked more field goals.

Taylor (45:31)

You, hey, you got the, you got the Panthers coming out of the south. Panthers been playing some good ball defense.

Will Compton (45:37)

Picking off the bucks twice over. So they have a Buy this week. And they got four games left. So they got a tough stretch. They got Tampa twice post by. They've got the Seahawks at home who are a wagon. And I don't remember who their fourth game is, but three of their final four games are. So I mean they control their destiny. I mean they can, they can get those Bucs games. Again, no one gave them a chance against the Rams. You know, you wouldn't think the Seahawks going in there with how well we've seen them play, especially that defense. But again, no one gave them a shot yesterday against the Rams. And two weeks ago we just saw the Rams beat the Seahawks. So again, if you can turn the ball over and you can generate explosive plays and to Canalis credit, use every single down to pull off an upset. We've seen in the NFL that, that works, right? Like Stafford hadn't thrown a pick in like what felt like 10 years. He throws a red zone pick and then on the next drive he throws a pick six. So like that's what's funny about the game of football is like, yeah, on paper, if they play each other, the rams probably win seven of 10. But you don't play best of seven series in football. You play once.

Taylor (46:46)

Yeah. And that defense is salty man. Picking off Stafford, who's. Who hasn't thrown an interception, I don't know how long.

Will Compton (46:52)

And they did it without arguably their two best players. Trayvon Merritt got suspended because he punched Juan Jennings in the balls after Monday night's game and J.C. horn was out.

Taylor (47:02)

Yeah, yeah.

Will (47:04)

By the way, that fourth game for the Panthers is the Saints. Sure.

Will Compton (47:07)

Okay.

Taylor (47:08)

So and again though, you, you, you beat, you beat the Rams. You go into Green Bay, you beat Green Bay. Like this team can beat anybody, right?

Will Compton (47:16)

They've beaten the Cowboys. They have beaten the Cowboys.

Taylor (47:20)

That was pre trade, pre trade Cowboys still.

Will Compton (47:25)

They've beaten the Cowboys, the Packers and the Rams and they've lost to the Saints. That Saints game is what's killing them.

Will (47:34)

Yeah. It is just crazy to see like Bryce Young, his storyline, he gets benched, comes back. Now he's playing at a high level where they're going to pay him. They're going to pay him, break them off.

Taylor (47:46)

What do you think? What are you making of the East? Cowboys winning the last two big games? Eagles, the Chiefs, Phillies dropped with the last two weeks. Yeah, I think it's been two. I know we had a long Thanksgiving break. Phillies dropped the last two. We're now like a game and a half off because Cowboy Dallas has that tie like do you in your head, is there a world that you're buying and believing that the Dallas Cowboys can win the NFC East?

Will Compton (48:13)

Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't bet on it. I still think for all the issues that Philadelphia has, I still think their roster is better. I think they have the pedigree. I think they, they, they have the dudes, they have the defense, they have the. Obviously the offense has some problems, but they still have just playmakers that can beat you. Even if the scheme, even if the situation is not perfect at the end of the day, especially in the playoffs, like, talent matters, talent wins. So again, if you made me pick one or the other right now, I'd still probably pick Philadelphia. But for weeks now I've been saying if Dallas could just figure out a way to just get middle of the pack on defense. Yeah, I don't know if they're ever going to be a top 10 unit. They're not, they're not there yet. They've got a lot of draft picks. They've got some time over the next couple, over the next couple seasons to try to improve the defense. But with Pickens and CD and Dak and the healthy offensive line and their ability to score points, especially in the passing game, if that defense can just hold serve and not give up 30, they were averaging 31, giving up 32 at one point in the season. And you say, oh my God, just be middle of the road, give up 25.

Mitch Carsley (49:28)

Right?

Will Compton (49:28)

Like we're not saying you got to be the Seahawks and give up 10, but like give up mid to low 20s and we're going to win a lot of games. That's kind of post by week post trades. That's kind of what they've become. And as you can see, they're a whole different animal when they're not just chasing 30 points every game. Make teams chase them. That's when. Dallas has been their best in years past. They built a defense that can play with a lead. They built a defense that defends the pass because their offense scores so much. And all of a sudden their run defense and all of a sudden the rush attempts and all that doesn't matter because you're not going to be able to score 30 plus against Dallas when their offense is rolling, operating in a very conservative approach, right? So last year when Dak is out and all hell breaks loose, the defense gets run through. Micah Parsons is no factor. Diggs and Bland are both hurt and not productive because they're not defending the passing game and their defense goes to shit. It's all connected to the offense. So if they can just get to baseline. I don't want to play Dallas.

Taylor (50:28)

Right. And they're getting healthy too, on defense. Yeah. With Hooker coming back. You know, this is a couple weeks ago after that trade happened. The trade looks good, man.

Will (50:34)

Yeah. Quinn Williams is playing. He's like elevated that defense.

Taylor (50:37)

Yeah. Kenny Clark, Quinn and Williams. You got Logan Wilson that week. They brought him over. Him and Kenneth Murray's rotating on every series there. There was a linebacker. Like when those competitions are happening and the cream is rising to the top, like, you just see the communication from the back with the back seven, the communication with the defensive line. Just you can tell they're running around hungry. And it's been like. It's been fun to watch. Dallas has been fun to watch lately.

Will (51:02)

Yeah.

Taylor (51:03)

Since those trades have happened.

Will (51:04)

Well, anytime you have a.

Taylor (51:07)

Bro, he.

Will (51:08)

Just looks like he doesn't try and he's just doing. He could if he gave.

Will Compton (51:11)

I'm convinced you could tell the entire stadium that he's running a slant route on third or fourth down and it does not matter. They're gonna throw the ball to him and he's gonna catch it.

Taylor (51:21)

Yeah.

Will (51:22)

I 100% agree.

Will Compton (51:24)

I think he's unbelievable.

Will (51:25)

If someone just said, hey, George, if you give 100% effort, you'll be the greatest to ever do it. And I believe if you like to just take that. If he could just take that advice. Because what's George think, man? It's like he lack of effort on some place here and there. He's a bit of a cancer and Steelers, that's where they got rid of him. And now it's like he's in a contract year and everyone's like, yo, this is the dude. My fear is. My biggest fear for the Cowboys is they're going to break him off and he's going to shut it down because he has. Based on his track record. He's a guy that can do that. No.

Taylor (51:57)

Which it could happen. But why can't we just enjoy the moment?

Will (52:00)

Enjoy the moment. I'm just saying, hey, we're on the Titanic. There might be an iceberg ahead of us. You guys want to pay attention? I was like, it, dude. We're going to have fun in this ballroom right now. Yeah.

Taylor (52:09)

Let's keep saying throttle down.

Will (52:12)

Yeah.

Will Compton (52:13)

And I agree with you. I think that's everybody's biggest issue. And again, you start paying multiple receivers. Dax already making 60 million. You've got two corners that are at the top and Bland and Diggs there's only so much money to go around. Obviously one of the reasons they didn't re sign Micah. But I would also say when you talk about George Pickens and you look back at his time in Pittsburgh, at some point we have to start asking is the drama offensively created in Pittsburgh? Yeah, because he's gone and Aaron Rodgers is doing interviews yesterday where the assumption is like, guys aren't coming to meetings, guys are running the wrong routes, guys are not doing what they're told, guys are missing. So like, was the chaos offensively in Pittsburgh, was that Pickens his fault or was that just Pittsburgh?

Will (52:58)

Dude, you're, you're not wrong with that assumption at all. Because I feel like the last couple years it's been like, hey, the marriage between Pittsburgh and Tomlinson, although it was so great at one point, it feels like it's getting stale. The relationship needs a little kick up and seeing the way it's at and how they've kind of produced the last couple of years where they really can't find an answer. And their defense, they have $179 million invested in that defense. They're just not producing the way they should. It feels to me that like we're headed towards, you know, that Black Monday or whatever it is at the end of the year when the Steelers don't make the playoffs, that Tomlinson is not the head coach of the Steelers and he ends up becoming, you know, the.

Taylor (53:35)

Giants or if they do make the playoffs by just one game. Because that seems to be the situation they are in. Absolutely every year, year in and year out, they have the highest paid defense, you got the pieces on defense. Offensively, it's like you go out, you get dk, you got Aaron Rodgers, like all they've needed is a quarterback. And now you're still in the same spot again with AT and at one point when the Ravens are one in five and they're still favored to win the division and all the sports books like you have such a, such a multiple game lead over everybody in the division and then the kind of soil it. Now we're sitting here, you're tied with Baltimore, Joe Burrows back slinging the rock around. Could the Bengals get back in this conversation and win the north by the, by the end of the year? If and when those things happen, whether it's Baltimore or the Bengals, whatever the drama is, we will, I, I think we'll be at that spot again to where it'll be. Tomlin's going to be the topic of conversation because the same thing Keeps happening year in and year out. And this year you had a better best of a shot as anybody with Aaron Rodgers with that defense with like a four game lead on everybody.

Will (54:41)

And. And if you look at the defense too, like, none of those players are young like TJ Watts. Been there for 10 years. Cameron Hayward is the leader of your defense. He's been for 13, 14 years. Like, at some point there's going to be turnover and it might be best for both situations for Tomlin to get out because it's like you're going to have a great legacy. You're going to be one of the best coaches to ever do it at a, you know, a predominant franchise like the Pittsburgh Steelers. But once those players leave, if you can't do with $179 million invested, what's going to happen then?

Taylor (55:11)

Yeah, you get a bad losing season. Don't get part of that.

Will (55:13)

Don't. Don't get.

Will Compton (55:14)

Who are you guys having on from Ohio State? Is it Ryan Day?

Taylor (55:16)

Yeah, Ryan Day.

Will Compton (55:18)

Oh, I'm not. I'm saying what's up?

Taylor (55:20)

Okay. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Will Compton (55:22)

I'm not leaving. That's my guy.

Will (55:24)

Is it really your.

Will Compton (55:25)

I just bombarded your show. Sorry.

Taylor (55:27)

You're good, bro.

Will Compton (55:28)

I gotta stay. That's my dude.

Will (55:30)

Is it actually your dude?

Will Compton (55:32)

Oh, yeah. I've known Ryan for a long time now.

Will (55:34)

Okay, well, Ryan's not coming on the show.

Taylor (55:37)

He is.

Will (55:38)

Is he?

Taylor (55:39)

Yeah.

Will Compton (55:40)

Ohio State's on here.

Taylor (55:42)

Yeah, Ryan Day's coming on the show.

Will (55:44)

He's coming on.

Taylor (55:45)

Yeah.

Will (55:46)

No one told me. Ryan Day is coming on the show.

Will Compton (55:48)

Ryan peeped right now.

Taylor (55:50)

No, no, you're not getting punked. He had a card up saying, would you want Ryan day on for 24? Cade and Pavia, come on.

Will (55:56)

Oh, my.

Taylor (55:56)

And he goes, give me a thumbs up or down. And I just went, okay, well, I.

Will (55:59)

Was actually gonna say to you, Greg, if you're actually boys with him, please send him my apologies because I said a lot of mean things and I was wrong. I was wrong.

Will Compton (56:07)

You guys are all wrong Day. We're all the man. And you Michigan guys got to get out of your own way.

Will (56:15)

I. You know what? Unfortunately, I don't disagree with you, Ryan.

Taylor (56:17)

They. Friend of the show. We. We got to go out to Ohio State and sit down. True fun.

Will (56:21)

True.

Will Compton (56:21)

I mean, all the guy does is win virtually every game he coaches. And the natty. I mean, I mean, if that's what you're into in today's day and age, I guess that's fine. Is the goal to beat everyone. Yeah. I guess the goal is to win the national title.

Will (56:34)

And I did not know that Ryan Dave was coming on the show. I'm actually.

Will Compton (56:39)

I hope I didn't. Surprise. I'm a little nervous right now. My guys at Ohio stay here.

Josh Pate (56:42)

Set.

Will (56:43)

I'm actually. I'm actually like, my heart rate is elevated right now because I had no idea.

Taylor (56:48)

Yeah, we got to get Ryan Day job.

Will Compton (56:50)

The grim reaper comes for everybody.

Will (56:52)

The grim reaper comes for everybody.

Taylor (56:54)

No doubt.

Will (56:55)

All right.

Taylor (56:56)

Hey, when. When does Ryan day come on?

Will (56:59)

11:30.

Taylor (56:59)

11:30. So we got some time. Another thing I want to get into with you, Greg, the NFC north dude.

Will (57:09)

The Chicago Bears, number one seed.

Taylor (57:11)

I am weirdly just starting to like them. Not in a way. Everybody's like, will, Will, please stay away from the Chicago Bears. We don't want your curses over in Chicago. Nebraska stucks. Please stay on that side. I just want Bears fans to know I'm not trying to invade and be like, I'm a Chicago Bears fan. I'm just saying from the outside, watching everything that this city, this team has went through, all the question marks, I was part of them with Caleb Williams. But to just see that team, the way that they get excited after every game in that locker room, it just. It's like you have FOMO watching it as a former player of, like, how much fun this team's having because, again, they're still not bottom of the barrel, but they have question marks on defense. But they're very opportunistic. At the same time. Caleb Williams is. He has a lot of inaccuracy issues, but the dude just continues to hang in the pocket and sling it. You see the creativity on offense. You see the belief in Ben Johnson. You see the fun that they're having, and the fact that they're sitting atop of the NFC north right now with the Detroit Lions. They might not make the playoffs. Like, that's a real conversation that's happening right now with them being seven and five. I'm just. I'm happy for the Bears.

Will (58:11)

Yeah.

Taylor (58:11)

I'm excited for that fan base. They've been fun to watch.

Will (58:14)

You said at the beginning of this year, we need these kids in Chicago and in the suburbs of Chicago to wear something other than a Mike Thicket jersey. And fortunately for all those parents out there, next year these kids are going to have their fingernails painted. They're going to be wearing Caleb. Caleb Williams jerseys. And that's exciting.

Taylor (58:31)

And just Coach Johnson, they've just been. What have you made of the NFC north the surgeons of the Chicago Bears, packers being a half a game back, like they're sitting there both at the top. Detroit, seven, five.

Will Compton (58:45)

Yeah. I mean, the Bears, I think everyone knew when Ben Johnson got that job, he was the bell of the ball, right? He's the coach. No matter what anyone tells you. Over the last couple hiring cycles, as happy as they were to get whoever they hired, everybody wanted Ben Johnson and then hired whoever they hired as a secondary third, you know, so on and so forth. He decided he's very picky. He ends up taking the job in Chicago this year. And I think that said a lot about what he viewed the roster, how he viewed Caleb Williams, how he felt they were built going forward. I think the expectation was that he was going to turn it around. We had them in the preseason game. We had their preseason game against Buffalo a million year, you know, a million months ago back in August, and there was a lot of optimism, a lot of hope, but there was also some reality, like, we got some work to do. We got to turn this thing around. It's not going to happen overnight. I think it's happened even faster than they all. If they were being honest, like, I think they thought they'd turn it around, but I don't think they thought they'd turn it around this quickly, that they'd be literally sitting at the top of the division on the first day of December. You know, I think we for a while said variables, the foregone conclusion for coach of the year if this thing continues to go. The Ben Johnson turnaround, the variable turnaround. I mean, there's a lot of really interesting coach of the year candidates. But, I mean, Shanahan, I mean, the job that he's done there, keeping that thing afloat, I think when it all comes down to the division, it's crazy that the Lions might not be in the division. It shows the power of replacing coordinators year in and year out, which is a whole other conversation about why you hire offensive coordinators to be your head coach. Because you don't lose Sean McVay. You don't lose Kyle Shanahan. You do lose Ben Johnson. Dan Campbell's now taken back over. He, you know, it's hard to replace coordinators year in and year out. They're dealing with that right now. I do think Green Bay's defense is better. I think Green Bay has the best combination of defense and quarterback in the division. So I would still take Green Bay right now as whoever ends up being the 1, 2, 3. However it shakes out, if they played each other. I'd take Green Bay. I think Jordan loves a top five quarterback this year. I think he's really good. I think as they continue to give the offense more to him, they'll have even better results. Kind of like we saw on Thanksgiving. And I think defensively Jeff Halfley has done an unbelievable job. That defense is really good. So I think that combination. But yeah, I mean, you can't not be impressed with the job that Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams, they're fun to watch, they're exciting. He's great in the locker room. He's taking his shirt off. They're giving free hot dogs out. Chicago right now is on fire. This is what Chicago people live for. I was there my last season there. We made a playoff run. We lost in the NFC championship to the Packers. We beat Seattle at home in the snow in the divisional round. Like there is no greater football city, especially when they're good than Chicago.

Taylor (61:35)

Yeah, we could be looking at, you know, these teams playing for a playoff spot at the end of the year. You got Chicago with Green Bay twice, Cincinnati and San Francisco, then Detroit, they play Dallas, the Rams, Pittsburgh and Minnesota. And then the last game of the year, they face off.

Will (61:49)

And it's so interesting that like in early October or late October, we're kind of sitting there and like all these teams are kind of figuring themselves out and we kind of know who the cream that's rising the top is at this very moment. And then a month has gone by and the Bears are the one seed, The Pats are the one seed. The Jaguars just leapfrogged over the Colts, South, Colts and Jags are tied with Jacks at the tiebreaker and the Houston Texans are one game behind. It is. There's so much relevant football about to take place in the month of December to where it's. Dude, it really. It's actually so fucking exciting. Do you see? I'll tell you how I feel and I'd love to get your opinion. I feel this skid from the Colts this late in the season is the worst possible situation and they're going to find themselves third place in the AFC South. It's. It's always with the teams that are gaining traction and momentum as a season goes on, as opposed to super hot starts. Because more oftentimes than not, like we saw with the Eagles a couple years, you see a really hot start and then an absolute plummet nosedive at the end of the year. Maybe limp yourself away in the playoffs and then you're out after the wild Card round. I see that happening with the Colts and I actually see the Houston Texans with that defense. I see them winning the South.

Taylor (63:03)

Love that.

Will Compton (63:03)

Houston Texans defense is insane.

Will (63:05)

Incredible.

Will Compton (63:06)

I mean what they did to Josh Allen in Buffalo a couple of weeks ago was, I mean, what, they sacked him eight times. Yeah, he is not. He's virtually impossible to sack, let alone eight times.

Will (63:17)

Zero times his last game.

Will Compton (63:18)

Yeah, I mean he, he's, I mean, obviously he's incredible. I think that Houston Texans front is incredible. D', Amico, Ryan's, that culture, their offense scares me. I just, I don't ever see them now. I haven't studied them, I haven't had them this year. So this is all just like a fan watching in secondary game crossover film and whatnot. But like, I just haven't seen an offense that I go, okay, on any given day, if they got to score high 20s and they got to score 30, like can they do that reason without strip sacks, without pick sixes, like, can they just play in a neutral game and do enough that the defense doesn't have to hold people to play 15, 17? Like you're going to play some really good offenses and some point you can't just beat everybody because you hold them under 20. So I think that's going to be the case big picture wise for Houston. But yeah, I mean, who would have ever thought that the Patriots would be the number one seed as we sit here in December and the Bears would be in the nfc? I mean, it's just, that's what makes the game so fun. That's what makes the NFL. King is unlike the other sports where you could pretty much throw a couple teams into a hat and know those are going to be the teams when the season ends. What's king about football? What's the best part about football is outside of a couple teams that are perennially bad, virtually everybody has a realistic chance. And if you're bad one year, the league is set up for you to get better quickly. That is the entire motive of every decision from how they do schedules to how they do draft order to how they do a waiver, you know, the waiver wire pre trade deadline of inverting the teams like it is built to not sustain winning and is built to not sustain losing. And I think that is what gives all these fan bases the optimism going into each year that I'm alive until I'm not. And that's what makes the game fun.

Will (65:11)

Yeah. Hearing you say this league's not built to sustain winning, not sustain losing, we have to take a look at the Tennessee Titans and realize their level of consistency that they have, losing as much as they do should be awarded. It should be. We should appreciate that because not a lot of teams can have back to back first overall picks. And I think that's something that we need to look at. Huh?

Will Compton (65:32)

It's, it's almost hard to do.

Will (65:35)

Right, right.

Will Compton (65:36)

The league is literally designed to not have that happen. So the teams, the organizations that find themselves on either side, obviously the, the high side is the legendary teams and the legendary coaches and quarterbacks and all that. But then on the flip side, you have to look as an organization and say, obviously there's something flawed about our decision making. We're not hiring the right guys, we're not drafting the right guys. Although I do think Cam Ward's good. There's something broken down about our process that no matter how many opportunities, no matter how many 4th place schedules we play, no matter how many high draft picks we get, no matter how many coaches we fire and hire, we are the same every single year. Regardless of those moves, there's institutional issues at play that until they get fixed, the results are not going to change. You could hire whoever you want.

Taylor (66:27)

Yeah, it's.

Will (66:29)

Yeah, yeah.

Taylor (66:29)

Especially with the quarterback play too. In the afc, it's just again, week after week, it's like Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, who's going to earn their way into the super bowl this year? And right now, where everybody's positioned, it's who's going to make the wild card.

Will (66:44)

Yeah.

Will Compton (66:45)

I think we're facing the guys you just brought up with. I think is a really interesting larger conversation around the NFL that people have to start having is you talk about all these quarterbacks that are making 60 million plus. There's a lot of warts on those rosters. Right. There's a lot of, you know, you look at Buffalo, they're, they're making magic, but it looks very different, right? Who are the receivers? What's their skill look like? The defense, they're kind of piecing it together. And I think McDermott's a really good coach and you got the best player in the league and you make, you kind of overcome it. Right. That's why you pay Josh Allen whatever it costs because he's going to make up for whatever roster deficiencies that you have. But you start looking around the league, what do the best teams have? Right. You start looking at, right. Just take this year, who are the best teams and what's their quarterback Situation, Right.

Taylor (67:33)

You have Bow, Nick Deal, Drake May with the Patriots.

Will Compton (67:38)

You have guys like Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield that are making 30 million a year. It's half the market.

Taylor (67:44)

Right.

Will Compton (67:44)

It's a, it's 50% of the market. Now Stafford makes a bazillion and obviously he's earning it. And why, what's the difference? Virtually everyone else on the team is on a rookie contract.

Taylor (67:53)

Right. That D line. Yeah, they're all.

Will Compton (67:55)

If you're going to pay your quarterback a bazillion, you better be an incredible drafter. And then if you're paying your quarterback nothing, if you draft and sign great free agents because you have all this excess capital, you build great roster. So it's starting to say if you're going to tie up such a huge percentage in your quarterback and make them high level, if you are not incredible drafters of young cheap talent, it's going to be really hard. You're going to be good just because you have a great quarterback. But are you going to win the Super Bowl?

Taylor (68:25)

Right, Right. Yeah.

Will Compton (68:28)

A lot of high priced quarterbacks that are on the outside looking in.

Mitch Carsley (68:32)

Yeah.

Will (68:32)

Do you think there's a change there? You trying to say that some of these quarterbacks might not be in their team next year?

Will Compton (68:38)

No, no. I mean like they're on the outside of the playoffs looking in, right?

Will (68:41)

Yeah. Yeah. And because of that result, does something happen?

Mitch Carsley (68:45)

Yeah.

Will Compton (68:45)

I just don't know how you get out of some of these contracts.

Will (68:47)

That's true.

Will Compton (68:48)

The dead money cap hits again. I haven't studied them all, but like I have to imagine some of that guaranteed money gets expedited by a trade or a cut or whatever and it accelerates forward. You're going to be carrying dead cap money. I can only imagine how big those numbers.

Will (69:03)

The Broncos are still paying Russell Wilson right now. Still paying him his dead cat money.

Taylor (69:07)

Oh really?

Will (69:08)

From that trade? I believe so. I mean I definitely need to get fact checks on that.

Will Compton (69:11)

Lingers for a long time because they, I mean they gave him that new deal and it only lasted one season.

Will (69:15)

Right, Right. And he had multiple years of guaranteed.

Taylor (69:18)

Yeah, we got a fun December getting lined up. And then it seems like it could be an interesting off season with restructuring. Like you, you look at Dallas like they're gonna have to do something with Dax contract. So that way if you're going to try and pay George Pickens and keep this roster, you know the trade you made with Williams, you got Kenny Clark, like guys that are just going to have to. You're going to figure out the cap situation because they're what, like 70 something million?

Will (69:40)

Yeah, that's what Shefter was saying. They're about 70 million over the cap right now. And so you have to redo deck. There's 60. You're still 10 under the cap. And you want to resign Quinn and you want to resign George Pickens. You've got to go get players to make your defense better. So they're in a very unique situation. The good news is the Cowboys have a shitload of money.

Taylor (70:00)

Yeah.

Will (70:00)

Like they're very. They're very. They're cash rich franchise. As opposed to the Titans or the Bengals. Bengals. We barely talked about them. But Joey B coming back, beating up on the Ravens. Like, are they going to be a team that can maybe sneak themselves in?

Taylor (70:15)

Why not?

Will (70:15)

Every year I got this week in December. Do you really?

Will Compton (70:19)

I got Bengals, Buffalo in Buffalo on Sunday.

Will (70:21)

That's going to be an awesome game. Burrow.

Will Compton (70:24)

It's supposed to snow 20 degrees. Snow burrow verse.

Taylor (70:28)

Alan.

Will Compton (70:28)

I mean, I know the record of Cincinnati is not great, but I mean you get those two guys playing a December game in Buffalo and that's a. It's amazing television.

Will (70:37)

Yeah.

Taylor (70:37)

And mathematically it's an absolute must win for the Bengals as far as playoffs.

Coach Ryan Day (70:41)

Yeah.

Will Compton (70:41)

What is the Bengals? I'll be honest, I haven't dove into it yet.

Josh Pate (70:44)

What.

Will Compton (70:44)

What is. The Bengals still have a realistic chance.

Taylor (70:47)

Yeah. So Baltimore and Pittsburgh are both 6 and 6 and the Bengals are 4 and 8.

Will Compton (70:52)

So they're two games back.

Taylor (70:54)

Baltimore and the Ravens, they both play each other twice in December. Baltimore's got Cincinnati, New England and Green Bay. Outside of playing the Steelers twice, Pittsburgh's got Miami, Detroit and Cincinnati. Last game of the year. Outside of playing the Ravens twice. And then you got Cincinnati, who they're sitting at 4 and 8. They got Buffalo, they got Baltimore, they got the Miami Dolphins. Arizona Cardinals in Cincinnati or Pittsburgh to cap off the year.

Will Compton (71:21)

It feels like he's got to win out.

Taylor (71:23)

They do. But that's the schedule you'd want to see. Right?

Will Compton (71:25)

Like, obviously they were again, I know.

Taylor (71:27)

Cincinnati's got Buffalo this weekend, then it's Baltimore, then the Miami Dolphins, the Arizona Cardinals and then the Pittsburgh Steelers. So they have a schedule you'd want. As long as you take care, you know you can knock off Buffalo this weekend. And then again, it's like you look at Baltimore, outside of them playing each other twice, Baltimore's gonna have to play New England and Green Bay and Pittsburgh's gonna have to Play Detroit. They also have Miami, but then again, you end the year with Cincinnati.

Will Compton (71:55)

Miami's gotten better.

Will (71:57)

Yeah. They had a crazy game against the Saints this week.

Will Compton (72:01)

Better.

Taylor (72:01)

Yeah. Miami's been playing with some juice ever since they, they made the move on the gm.

Will (72:06)

Right, Right.

Will Compton (72:06)

Which is so odd. Like, what did Firing the gm.

Taylor (72:09)

I know.

Will (72:10)

I, I, I think we've talked about the show. I kind of, I'm a fan of that move of doing the GM with the thought process of, like, what are you going to fire a head coach in the middle of the year? Right.

Taylor (72:20)

If they're probably going to get fired.

Will (72:21)

At the end of the year, then you find a GM and a head coach that are aligned with each other. Because how many times do you see a GM get hired? He brings in the head coach, head coach gets fired, new GM comes in, but then they have, it's just always the same revolving door of no continuity. It's kind of what you see with the Titans kind of going right now. They're kind of one piece missing, and by the time they get another piece in, that's this guy's guy, he's getting kicked out. And so with the, with the Dolphins, what you do is you get rid of the top dog. You say, hey, we haven't drafted good enough. We're going to get you out of there. Let's find out who the right GM is, bring that guy in, and then you're making decisions top down. And so it's more the foundationally, it's a better structure.

Will Compton (73:02)

Do you think it's a foregone conclusion that they fire McDaniel?

Will (73:05)

I think three, four weeks ago we were saying that now they're a little spicy. So it's like, yeah, so if he.

Will Compton (73:12)

Finishes the year strong and they don't fire him, now they're just back to it, hiring a GM who doesn't have his coach. And it's your, the situation, you're saying. I completely agree. It's the same thing, coach and quarterback. Like, how many times do we see a coach is struggling, he's got the top overall pick, he takes the top overall pick, he gets fired midseason. And, and they just continue to never have. The Bears have done it, the Titans have done it, the Jaguars have done it.

Will (73:36)

Right.

Will Compton (73:37)

It feels like if you draft the first overall quarterback, you're gonna get fired in that first year.

Will (73:42)

No, I agree with that. I think this.

Will Compton (73:44)

But I know. I agree with your point. It'd be interesting to see how Miami handles it, because if, if they finish strong they don't fire them. It's the situation you laid out.

Will (73:52)

They've got what is finished strong, though. Sorry to interrupt.

Taylor (73:55)

I was just gonna say you gotta make the playoffs. Yeah. You got to assume that when they fire the GM that in their mind, McDaniel is going to be next at the end of the year. And the way that they were kind of up and down, all the things I was coming out with, like, you know, press conferences, leadership, all those question marks, but now you're sitting back and watching this team play with some juice, play with some energy, win football games, play for, you know, you could say the head coach, play for each other, all that stuff. If you're Miami, you're kind of like, you kind of. You kind of don't want it going this way. If your plan was to fire McDaniels at the end of the year. So I don't know what the finish strong looks like.

Will (74:31)

What is their record right now? Do we know?

Taylor (74:34)

We probably find it pretty quick.

Will (74:36)

Yeah. Because they're not going to win the division. The Patriots are going to win the division.

Odoo Advertiser (74:39)

Yeah.

Will (74:40)

They're like, what, two games away from locking that up, having that be done. They're five and seven right now.

Will Compton (74:46)

Yeah. Just.

Will (74:48)

They're not making the playoffs, like. Yeah.

Will Compton (74:49)

So not making the playoffs.

Will (74:50)

Right. I would probably lean on. Yeah. Like, if your decision making was fire the gm, knowing that at the end of the year you're going to fire McDaniels, I don't think that plan has changed. If.

Will Compton (75:00)

Yeah. You can't let the last couple weeks cloud that.

Will (75:02)

Right, right.

Will Compton (75:03)

If that was your decision.

Taylor (75:05)

Yeah. I mean, they're four. They're five and seven, but they're four and one in their last five. Yeah. And they got the jets, the Steelers, Bengals, Bucks and Patriots to round out the year.

Will (75:15)

Didn't the jets just beat the Falcons?

Will Compton (75:17)

They could win four of those five games.

Taylor (75:18)

They could win four of those five. Then you're kind of in a.

Will Compton (75:23)

One step further. If the Patriots have locked up the one seed, they could win all five of those games because they might not even have to play the starters.

Taylor (75:31)

You go 9 and 1 in your last 10. Since you fire the GM, who knows what it looks like?

Will Compton (75:36)

You go 9 and 1. I don't care if they don't make the playoffs with 10 wins or not. You go nine and one over your last 10, you're not getting fired.

Will (75:42)

Yeah, I agree. I agree. But it goes back to kind of like our analytics talk where it's all about, like, you're gonna play safe, you're gonna play aggressive. Like if you are the owner of the Miami Dolphins, are you sitting there and saying McDaniels is a guy that's going to get a Super Bowl? The answer needs to be a yes or no answer, Black or white.

Will Compton (75:59)

Yeah, I agree.

Will (76:00)

If the answer is no, then the result of the rest of the year should not matter.

Will Compton (76:05)

Oh no, I agree. I'm not saying it's what I would do. I just the way we all know the NFL and the way these, these owners and our are all risk averse, it's just so much easier to stand at the podium and say he finished 9 and 1. We love the way our teams responded. We love this. It's an easier press conference.

Will (76:26)

Yeah.

Will Compton (76:26)

And to ignore that people make decisions based on public reaction and based on press conferences is naive because they 100% do. They're humans. People don't like criticism. People don't like to stand up there and take bullets. And whether it's a coach, an owner, a gm, whatever it is, path of least resistance is very common in the NFL.

Taylor (76:49)

Yeah, no, good point. We got, we got Ryan Day coming on in two minutes. Greg, you're the man. I know you're gonna stick around. I'm gonna go take a potty break. For everybody tuned in. Thank you for tuning in again. 35% off bwtb.com all of our merchandise. We will see you here in a little bit for our college football show.

Will (77:07)

Yep.

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Will (79:11)

Hey audiobook lovers. This week on the podcast I'm sitting.

Josh Pate (79:14)

Down with musician, producer and walking encyclopedia.

Will (79:18)

Questlove, we're talking about Mark Ronson's memoir Night how to be a DJ in 90s New York City.

Taylor (79:25)

All right, like we talked about before.

Josh Pate (79:27)

Mark Ronson Foundation Sanctuary in the DJ booth.

Will (79:29)

What's a tool or piece of equipment in the studio or on stage that gives you the most control?

Will Compton (79:34)

So I have two microphones on stage. We have the microphone that you hear as the audience. Then we have a second microphone in which we communicate with each other. I feel like that second microphone kind of saved all of our friendships. No band likes each other after 20 years or 25 years. The Beatles broke up in in seven and a half years and we're going on 35. Listen to HearSay, the Audible and iHeart.

Will (80:02)

Audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or.

Josh Pate (80:04)

Wherever you get your podcasts.

Taylor (80:12)

Boys, welcome to another episode reaction show College football busting with the boys. We got rivalry week. We got the college football commission or Josh Pay joining the boys after all the chaos. Chaotic weekend with Lane Kiffin. We'll be talking coaching changes, potential playoff chaos that we are all rooting for before we get rolling. Number one, it is Cyber Monday.

Will (80:34)

It is Cyber Monday.

Taylor (80:35)

Sale is now up 35% off our entire store. Last week it was 30% this on Monday. As you were listening to this 35% off our entire store. I'm talking to the men out there because we do it best. I haven't done anything a lick Of Christmas shopping.

Will (80:49)

Yep.

Taylor (80:49)

Since Black Friday has started, you wait until the last minute. I'm just reminding you again, 35 off our entire store.

Will (80:56)

What's the store?

Taylor (80:56)

What's the website@bwtb.com.

Will (80:59)

Oh, so it's only four letters.

Taylor (81:00)

Four letters.

Will (81:01)

Very easy. Yeah. We've done this all for the guy.

Taylor (81:04)

Yes.

Will (81:04)

Dumb brains. We all have them. Figure it out.

Taylor (81:06)

Dumbed it down as low as we.

Will (81:08)

Possibly can, and 35 off. I want to say this before we start. It is so great after rivalry week, after what happened to my team, after what happened to your team, after happened to JP's team, what happened to Jack's team, It's nice to sit here with friends. Will, being a friend. Jp, you're a friend. Jack, Garrett, Sherm, Mitch. It's like, it's great to have my friends here and be together in a situation like this where it sucks. It hurts. But we all get to hurt together. And that's beautiful. And Josh is also here as well. Josh is here now. Josh, before we get into what's really important, which is college football, do you want to address what you did this weekend on Saturday morning?

Josh Pate (81:49)

Yeah.

Will (81:49)

Do you want to apologize?

Josh Pate (81:52)

I'll address it.

Will (81:53)

Okay.

Josh Pate (81:53)

Yeah, I'll address it. So I woke up, you know, like many people do. Every human who's alive today woke up this morning. That's right. And I woke up Saturday morning. And you know when you wake up and your consciousness is just tugging at you a little bit? For those people out here who have consciousness, mine was tugging at me on Sunday or Saturday morning. I thought to myself, what's wrong?

Odoo Advertiser (82:10)

Wrong?

Josh Pate (82:11)

I haven't done anything. You know, I'm not in debt. I don't owe anyone any money. What's wrong? It was a pick on a game gets no one more important than that in rivalry weekend. And I was thinking, what game? What game? And I realized it was. It was Ohio State, Michigan.

Will (82:24)

Like a little closer.

Mitch Carsley (82:25)

Josh, get it up a little bit more.

Will (82:27)

Do you do shows?

Josh Pate (82:29)

Yeah, just. Just not with sensitive mics. Yeah. So I. I needed to talk to someone about it. I talked to my wife about it, and she said, you got to. Actually, she said, I don't care. But then she said, talk to someone else about it. So who else do you go to? Will Compton. Yeah, that's right. It's Savannah Pate. Will Compton's right there. Because you would be there, but I couldn't talk to you for what will be obvious reasons in just a second. I came on the locker room last Wednesday and I ignored all my better judgment. I ignored the model. I said, I'm not picking against Michigan again. It's been four years in a row. I can't do it. But then Saturday morning, you look in the mirror and you're like, what are you doing? Ohio State's going to win this game. So what do I do? I look and I say, we got 15, 20 minutes to kick off. Do I change? And my heart said no, but my head said yes. So I consulted William, and I said, I'm going to change, but if I do, I need you to hold me to it. I can't make this public this late. I'll get drug. And I don't want to make it about me. It needs to be about the kids.

Taylor (83:24)

Right.

Will (83:24)

Right. It's the biggest game of the year.

Josh Pate (83:26)

Yeah. And so I told him, I am changing my pick. You can release this for. And then I put my phone down, but then I picked my phone back up and said, there's one more person I got to reach out to, and that was you. And I didn't necessarily tell you I was changing my pick. What I told you is I want to tell you good luck and I love you. And you said five words back. Do you want to read them there?

Will (83:45)

Thank you. Love you, too.

Josh Pate (83:47)

And I just don't see why that has to change because of one football game.

Will (83:52)

Do you want to pick up the timestamps of when those texts were?

Josh Pate (83:54)

I don't know. I have no interest in that.

Taylor (83:56)

You have no semantics.

Will (83:57)

That is where I am. Like, okay, there's tomfoolery about. In Josh Pate's head on Saturday morning is I see a text message to Will Compton at. I don't know the exact time because we don't have it up, but around 10:53am Yep.

Taylor (84:10)

And then you might be spot on.

Will (84:12)

It's basically. Yeah, I looked at it quite a bit. It's basically saying, I can't do this. Ohio State's going to whoop Michigan's ass, which you were correcting. So I'm changing my pick. I want you to hold this. Now, as your other friend, who is at the top of your list, right behind your wife, I would expect you to either not text me or send a text that says, hey, I'm also, hey, by the way, I know you want Michigan to win, but I really think, oh, he's gonna win. I. This is not what I want to do to you, but it's going. You're gonna see this. You're gonna know this. So here's the information. So the love u text to me is, we're in the movie Gladiator. I'm chained up, I'm about to go out for my last fight, and you give me a hug and you stab me in the back and you tell me, I love you, brother. And then we go out and fight. Unfortunately, you just murder me at the end scene of the movie is, I get you and then I die. No, you just cut my head off. And that is what you have in the conscious thing. Everything I have no problem with. It's the. It's the text messages and the times in which they took place.

Josh Pate (85:14)

You know, there's so much on my face that says, I want to push back on this right now. It was pretty accurate. Yeah, that's a pretty accurate description of what happened.

Will (85:21)

I'm so glad we can get past that. And just you sitting on this bus saying it's accurate. You don't even have to say sorry. You've already said it with your eyes.

Josh Pate (85:28)

Yeah, Gladiator 2 starts today.

Will (85:30)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (85:30)

Yeah.

Will (85:30)

Which bad movie? Anyway, I. I thought it was.

Taylor (85:34)

I was, I was a little into it.

Will (85:35)

I kind of did you like it?

Taylor (85:36)

But I'm an easy crowd.

Will (85:37)

I'm a guy that watches the original and goes, it better meet this expert. I'm. I'm an unhealthy watcher.

Josh Pate (85:42)

Yeah, you're dead.

Will (85:43)

It's a great. Yeah. Yeah.

Taylor (85:44)

So Taylor, what you. What you're basically saying is he handled the tough situation just poorly.

Josh Pate (85:49)

I landed the plane, but not without turbulence.

Will (85:52)

Yeah, I think he did it fine. Like if he just texted you and was like, hey, I'm taking Ohio State. Yeah, I'm gonna feel some type of way, but at the end of the day, like he's just having a discussion with somebody else, not hurting my feelings. That's all good, but he's a kick in the can. He send you. He sent you a text, sat on his couch and goes, it's not enough. I gotta now text Taylor and tell him that I love him so that I feel even more comfortable. I feel more safe. Hey, love you too. I am pacing back and forth from my TV holding my 8 year old. She's asking questions. Hey, what is this? What does that mean? What are these three dots? Oh, those are timeouts. Hey, what is the yellow line? That's the first down. We have to get to that first down. It's not about getting a touchdown right now. It's about getting a new set of downs. I look up, I get a text from Josh Bay, I love you. I smile. Thank you. I love you, too.

Josh Pate (86:35)

It's going to be okay.

Will (86:36)

I think I got my trench boy with me.

Josh Pate (86:38)

Yeah.

Will (86:38)

I got my judges. You said you sent me a text. Let's ride. It's go time, whatever it was. And I'm like, I got my dogs with me. Knowing we all kind of knew. Even me. There's a piece of me in the back of my head going, you know, last year, like, they're not going to make the same mistake again. But I. I pushed that away. I had other guys that went to Michigan text me saying the same thing. I pushed that away just to find out that. But I don't want to. That's not what the show's about.

Taylor (87:03)

This.

Will (87:03)

I wanted to.

Taylor (87:04)

Situation.

Will (87:04)

I wanted to address this. I want. Yeah.

Taylor (87:06)

It's a great analogy for, like, Lane. Lane Kiffin. Ole Miss.

Will (87:10)

Right.

Taylor (87:11)

You're Ole Miss fans.

Will (87:11)

I'm an Ole Miss fan.

Taylor (87:12)

He's texting me. I'll say he's letting them know, hey, good luck. I love just. Just messing with their heartstrings the whole time.

Will (87:17)

I'm Keith Carter. I'm the AD.

Taylor (87:18)

Something.

Will (87:19)

I love you.

Taylor (87:20)

Yeah. Something. Something's been tugging at Lane Kiffin in his conscience.

Will (87:23)

Yeah.

Will Compton (87:23)

Yeah.

Taylor (87:24)

I can't do this. I can't stay at Ole Miss. I'm gonna come to lsu. Yeah.

Will (87:27)

And then I have to find out over the Internet.

Taylor (87:28)

Yeah.

Will (87:29)

And I come back, and he's probably gonna be like, hey, can I support Michigan, the bowl game? Like, you can't coach. You can't be a part of this bull.

Taylor (87:35)

And you're saying you. You understood. You got it. Like, you didn't have to. You didn't have to play with my emotions. This exactly.

Will (87:40)

Exactly.

Taylor (87:41)

Like, if it was just a better opportunity.

Will (87:43)

Yeah. He took a business decision and made it personal by just sending, good luck. I love you. I'm just like, what the hell is this?

Josh Pate (87:51)

Knowing full well, if Michigan pulls that game out, I'm texting you. We did it, bro.

Will (87:56)

Yeah, we did it. You're probably texting one, but please delete him.

Josh Pate (88:00)

A hundo to delete it. And I'm just telling you we did it, man.

Will (88:03)

Exactly. And I'm sitting here none the wiser, just happy that Michigan won.

Josh Pate (88:06)

Right.

Will (88:06)

I tell you guys, it had that little secret forever that.

Taylor (88:08)

For those first two series. Yeah. It was when you guys picked the ball off.

Will (88:13)

I know, dude.

Taylor (88:14)

I was like, oh, my God.

Will (88:15)

I know.

Taylor (88:16)

Is this gonna happen again?

Will (88:17)

When we got three? That's when I was like, Now I'm concerned because we picked the ball off. We're like in the low. We're in the, in the red zone, the fringe area. And I'm like, now is the time to have. We have to have a two score lead. We have to have.

Taylor (88:30)

Yeah. Having six points settle for three.

Will (88:32)

Yeah. I mean, if we're gonna go into the game, I thought we're go Lane Kiffin. But Michigan got outplayed out, coached out, schemed, outclassed, outclassed. It was tough in every sense of the word. And honestly, I said, I said in the video after the game, like, congrats to Ryan Day. Brian Hartline, Matt, Patricia, like, they earned it. They ate it for 365 days. Longer than that, 2191 days. And once they won, there is no bullshit about it. They're like, hey, in their mind, everything is right in the world again. And you got to respect it. You got to respect the way they handled it, how we have handled it. And if you're a Michigan fan, that's a great opportunity to look yourself in the mirror, be like, how. How are we going to be winners next time? Our winners? How are we going to act?

Taylor (89:14)

Yeah.

Will (89:15)

Because there's a piece of me that loves the, like, the flag, planning all that, because it just adds to the storyline of rivalry week and it shows the highlights and the fighting and all that. I love that. But when someone who's beaten you more times than not since 2000 and they just shake your hand and walk off the field, it's like that. That's a tough look.

Taylor (89:35)

It says we're gonna win with humility. It's like, oh, yeah, like.

Will (89:38)

Like that is.

Josh Pate (89:39)

They predict that you will.

Will (89:40)

That. That's the right. The Ryan Day's playbook was perfect. All the bad things I've said about Ryan Day, like, I take it back. He's a leader of men. He's a great coach.

Taylor (89:48)

He is.

Will (89:49)

He's outstanding. He really is.

Josh Pate (89:51)

The part that got me was Michigan's players protected the M. I know. And Ohio State folks looked at it like, what are you doing? We're not. We're not going to do that anyway.

Taylor (90:00)

Yeah, this isn't what you think it is.

Will (90:02)

And the thing that bothers me is in Columbus last year, when Ohio State players are trying to fight Michigan players over the flag thing, I'm thinking to myself, hey, you had 60 minutes to defend your turf. Like, we technically took over your territory. Now 60 Minutes has taken place. We got our ass whipped and we got 110 guys standing on the 50 yard lines. Like, guys, it's. They have won.

Josh Pate (90:22)

Just go home.

Will (90:23)

The game is over. And it sucks, man. I thought. I didn't think we had a winning game plan. I mean, I know Bryce, like, people want to mess with the stat line. The kid threw the ball 18 times and. And 10 of those throws really came in like, okay, we're down by multiple scores. It's time to like, kind of rip it. It's like, how are you gonna get a kid to get into a groove of a game and then just be like, all right, now go save us? Yeah, it's a tough situation to be in.

Taylor (90:44)

Look, Ohio State is the best team in the country.

Will (90:46)

They're the best team.

Taylor (90:47)

All the chaos that could happen in the playoffs and everything else, I'm just thinking, like, who's going to beat this team?

Josh Pate (90:51)

No, the field may be one. Told you. We said on the locker room like a month ago the whole chaos is going to be the playoff selection. It's going to be the process of getting to the playoff. Because once you get in the playoff, it may not be that chaotic at all. It may just be who's lining up to be the next victim for them.

Will (91:07)

Yeah, and you said it perfectly on your show last night. Like every top team after every game, they have more questions. The only thing Ohio State's giving you his answers. Yeah, over and over and over again, all they've given is answers. And it sucks that I. My team has to be the last head post on a stake. Like, that sucks. But I mean, that team is the best team now if you are Michigan, it's. You see the level that Ohio State's put themselves at in this new nil world. Like, are you going to go match that and go after it the same way they have? That's the question they have to ask themselves. I can't do it for. I don't have that kind of money. I can't do it. I got a family to feed myself. I'm just over here as a fan hoping and wishing and praying.

Taylor (91:46)

I'm with you.

Will (91:47)

But yeah, I mean, I don't. There's a whole lot that needs to be said. Unless, you know, Mitch, if you want to rub it in a little bit, I saw your text about your childhood traumas and us reliving those things for you.

Taylor (91:56)

Hey, that win in some inspired Mitch to get back on the box, man.

Will (92:01)

Yeah. Long tweet talking about. I saw Jack. Jack's responses. That's a lot of words.

Taylor (92:07)

It's a lot of words. We're talking about driving the cams, the comforter, and everything else. I know it had my attention. I'm like, okay, Mitchie boy.

Will (92:14)

I read half of it and I was just. And it wasn't you. I was just. I was mad about the situation.

Mitch Carsley (92:18)

No, I mean, like, I, I had to go through, like, I have been, I guess you could say, for lack of a better term, bullied out of being a fan. Just because I have been a bit casual. But, like, seeing Ryan Day, like, we win with humility and then, like, him shake, Sharon's like, hey, we got to get these guys off the field. We're not going to do any flag planning. Like, like, that's my, that's my head coach. And like, I have been a fan. Like, I had the comforter, I had the. My bedroom was painted like that. I went to two youth camps. Like, I've been a die hard fan, like, since, Since a kid. But like, I just kind of. I don't know if I fell off a little bit, but like, seeing that win, it's like, oh, I'm. I'm fully back.

Josh Pate (92:55)

You found your faith again.

Mitch Carsley (92:56)

I did, yeah.

Josh Pate (92:57)

You found your faith again.

Will (92:58)

Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Pate (92:59)

Born again Buckeye.

Taylor (93:01)

Yeah, he's a born again Buckeye man.

Will (93:03)

I don't really see a team on here that beats Ohio State.

Josh Pate (93:07)

Ohio State is the team.

Will (93:09)

It's the team.

Josh Pate (93:10)

Like, that's the team. That's the team that beats Ohio State.

Will (93:12)

Yeah. That's the only way that team loses. Can I ask you a question? Are we. Should we be done with conference championships? Like, we have number one and number two, Indiana versus Ohio State this weekend. And it makes zero sense if the commission has already said it's not going to affect their judgment if they're technically still going to stay 1 and 2. Why not sit all your best players and be like, hey, why hurt these guys more when we have three, four more games to play?

Josh Pate (93:37)

Yeah, I'll do you another one. I mean, the Big Ten is the easy one. Look at the sec. So Alabama's in the playoff right now. If they just don't play Saturday, they're in the playoffs now, they don't have a first round buy, so technically they could play Saturday and get that. That'd be wonderful. However, if they didn't have the game this weekend, that would be their buy. So what happens to the sec? Because, like, Georgia is going to be in no matter what. There are folks out there walking the streets this morning who are seriously suggesting to you if Alabama loses Saturday, they're going to fall out, which I think is insane. But same question for both conferences there. Why have your game Saturday? Yeah, that's why. I think with this new talk about we're going to restructure the playoff or whatnot, if they do it, whatever changes they make, they've either got to crystallize the value of conference championship games or they got to do away with them. And the latter is not a realistic option because they make way too much money on them. So that, that goes to my whole theory of why I don't think Bama's falling out no matter what. Because you got really one of, if not the most powerful conferences in college football with their one seed. I know Bama's ranked behind Georgia, but they are technically the 1 seed in the SEC. If you tell the most. One of the most powerful conferences in college football, your 1 seed could miss our 12 team playoff because they played in your conference championship game. The SEC like, may burn the whole thing down. They may just take their ball and go home and say, you know, we're going to do our own thing. You guys have fun. Let us know when you figure it out. And think about this. There's a world where Alabama SEC championship game participant is not in the playoff and there are two G5s and two Big 12s in the playoff. I just threw up. Many people just threw up listening to that.

Will (95:10)

Yeah, yeah, people had to pull over in their cars.

Taylor (95:13)

What if Georgia wins, like 31 to 13?

Josh Pate (95:17)

I don't care.

Taylor (95:19)

Thinking like kind of a blowout scenario. Bama falls out.

Josh Pate (95:22)

Oh, no, there is a chance they fall out. I'm telling you, I would never drop them out because if they're in today, then they're in, period. But yeah, like, I keep listening to the folks who really follow this hardcore and the people who have sat in with the committee before. Like, they take some of the media folks, they fly them down to Texas and they have them sit through the mock selection process and everybody who sat through that thing keeps on putting their predictions out and they have Bama losing. If they lose to Georgia and maybe dropping out. I don't think those people are all stupid. Like, they clearly know what they're talking about. So yeah, there's a chance. I just think it's insane. And if you do it, they're going to be much bigger ramifications for the sec because you notice, like, I saw Greg Sankey Saturday night, the commissioner of the sec, and it made me remember that guy hasn't said a word about this no one in the SEC has said a word about it from the league office. They haven't tried to politic. They haven't tried to influence publicly or privately. They haven't said a word to me. Like they haven't reached out to try and stoke the fire. I think they're just waiting to see the outcome. And if Bama wins, it's a moot point. If Bama loses, that 12 hours between that game and the selection the next day will be. Honestly, it'll be about like the coaching world was over the past few days with Lane Kiffin and LSU just be total insanity.

Taylor (96:40)

I have a question.

Josh Pate (96:41)

If.

Taylor (96:41)

If Bama were to win this weekend.

Josh Pate (96:44)

Do they earn one of the top four spots and then they get the.

Coach Ryan Day (96:48)

Buy and then Georgia would fall to whatever that would be?

Josh Pate (96:51)

Yeah, I like. I think that's the way it would work. That's the other side of the coin. That's the crazy thing. That.

Taylor (96:54)

Or three Big Ten teams potentially get a buy.

Josh Pate (96:58)

I think the SEC champ is going to have a first round by whoever that is. Yeah, Georgia, obviously. I think Bama would jump up there, too. Then Georgia falls to hosting a playoff game. And I think the way it's projected right now, three of the four teams that would host a playoff game are SEC teams. And then it would probably be Oregon or maybe. I think Texas Tech is going to jump up and take one of the spots, by the way, as the Big 12 champs. So, yeah, like Oregon and three SEC teams hosting against who, God knows who from the G5 ranks. And they're probably three touchdown favorites.

Will (97:29)

What if Virginia beats Duke?

Josh Pate (97:31)

What if Duke beats Virginia?

Mitch Carsley (97:33)

That's what I meant.

Will (97:34)

Yeah. What if Duke beats Virginia? Because you have Virginia sitting at the 11 seed right now. They lose to Duke, who's nowhere to be found on this chart. What then?

Josh Pate (97:43)

It's. I want to. I want to remind people, okay. We talked about the ACC doomsday scenario on the locker room a month ago, and then Duke lost to Virginia, ironically. And we kind of thought, okay, doomsday scenario off the table. The ACC is so bad, it lost its way back into the doomsday scenario. The doomsday scenario is. And this is going to sound fake, but it's not. Duke is 7 and 5 playing for a conference championship because many of their losses are out of conference losses. Yeah, Duke is a two and a half point dog against Virginia. If they beat Virginia. Duke the best week. We counted it last night. Duke is not in the top 40 of the AP right now. And that's as far as you can count, you can't even go past 40. They're not even receiving votes. If Duke wins, they won't be close to one of the five highest ranked conference champs. So they won't get an automatic bid. Those auto bids would go to James Madison and whoever wins the American Athletic Conference and then the the rest of the power four league champs. And so the question would become for the committee on selection Sunday, are we going to put Miami in the playoff? Basically, because that would be the ACC's only shot at getting a team in the playoff. And if they say no to Miami like they have been doing, you're looking at the ACC being shut out entirely. Which again we floated on the locker room a month ago. I saw the comment section. They thought we were idiots. They thought we weren't reading the rules correctly, right? No, we were reading the rules correctly. It's just a scenario no one ever thought would happen has already happened in the second year of the 12 team playoff. That's the world you live in. That's the world you woke up in this morning.

Will (99:20)

We want Virginia loses a Duke. What is North Texas's record? Why are they even? They're 11 and 1.

Josh Pate (99:27)

Yeah, North Texas plays.

Will (99:28)

I've already had my stance on the G5. You need to be undefeated. Yeah, well, have to be.

Taylor (99:33)

Look here.

Will (99:33)

And their coach just left.

Taylor (99:34)

So now, now, now we're in a situation that we don't need multiple G5s, but we need a G5 to take out the ACC. Like if Duke wins that, that will obviously be the domino effect, but we kind of need the G5 a little bit right now if you want. Because no matter what we're accepting, we have to accept the rules of the game, which is G. You know, these top five ranked conference champions, they get, they get in.

Josh Pate (99:58)

Yeah, here, look, here's the other side of it though. If Virginia beats Duke, it still just means a G5 team and Virginia are going to be in and those just total blowout city against the five and the six seed in their building in round one. Both of those games are going to be between 14 and 21 point spreads. It will be SMU, Penn State last year, like it'll be that all over again. And you just know you're mailing it in, you're trying to stay healthy and it's going to be a really boring watch.

Taylor (100:27)

But what about the spirit of college football?

Josh Pate (100:29)

I'm all for it. That's why I tune in every Saturday in the fall. That is great. But you said the spirit of college football, Right?

Will (100:36)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (100:36)

In the spirit of college football sometimes gets misconstrued to where every single team in the 136 team field of FBS is playing the same level of football. Everyone knows they're not. Both of you have actually gone on record as saying, yeah, there should probably be a G5 playoff. I've beat that drum for years. But you come to a total impasse because they just push back and say, no, we don't want our own playoff. We want the right to earn our way to get our head beat in. Like they would rather. They would rather have that world.

Taylor (101:04)

Yeah.

Will (101:04)

If you had. So as it stands right now, North Texas is going to play Oregon at.

Josh Pate (101:08)

Oregon or North Texas or Tulane, one or the other.

Will (101:11)

So one of those teams are. If you're Oregon and your schedule comes out and you have them in one of your first four games, you're not looking at that going, oh, shit, we got to win this one. And now we sit here in the playoff and the most important games of the year, your first game is against Tulane or North Texas.

Taylor (101:26)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (101:27)

For the spirit of college football. Yeah.

Will (101:29)

Both coaches are gone. Yeah. G's over here saying, both coaches are gone. Which.

Taylor (101:33)

Which.

Will (101:34)

Why not Vandy, who's 10 and 2, or even Texas? It's 9 and 3.

Taylor (101:39)

That's what it should be.

Will (101:40)

It's. That's what it should be. Absolutely. But is Vandy out?

Josh Pate (101:44)

I think it looks like Vandy's out. I think it's crazy. They dropped in. They dropped in the AP pole after beating Tennessee. But look, it's another no win, okay? Because when you're arguing Vandy, you're not arguing Vandy, you're arguing a fifth SEC team. That's all the public hears.

Will (102:00)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (102:01)

And they're going to say, well, who is Vandy beaten? And then you say, dude, they just beat Tennessee on the road. Well, Tennessee didn't even have a win against anyone in conference with a winning record. It's like, if you really want to go down that rabbit hole, I could pick apart every resume up there this side of Ohio State and Indiana. I could easily do that. It's very, very selective enforcement of criteria to pick apart someone's resume. Bottom line is, if we sat on this bus in July and anyone said rubbed the Magic 8 Ball this morning, I know for a fact Vandy's going 10 and 2. They're going to end the season red hot. They're going to drop 45 in Neyland Stadium. They're going to run for over 300 against Tennessee. They're going to have a bonafide Heisman Trophy candidate quarterback like Diego Pavi is not going to get hurt. He's going to go the whole wire to wire season. You're asking, what seed are they going to be?

Will (102:44)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (102:44)

You're going to ask are they going to get a first round buy, Are they going to Atlanta, are they going to play for the conference title? And instead it's yes, sorry, we're going to drop you a spot in the A.P. bye.

Will (102:53)

Yeah, that. It makes no sense to me.

Taylor (102:56)

You have other jacks over here.

Will (102:58)

Golf clapping in the corner.

Taylor (103:02)

That's. That's pain. That's pain coming out. Yeah, the total, the total chaos scenario we could be looking at here. Georgia wins big. BYU beats Texas Tech and Duke wins.

Josh Pate (103:15)

Okay, I can address those one at a time. BYU beats Texas Tech. They're both in.

Taylor (103:22)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (103:23)

BYU is the conference champ. Texas Tech's not going to drop out. All right, Duke wins. That means two G5 teams are going in. So Duke wouldn't be in. So at that point already, just with those two parameters, you have two G5s and two Big 12 teams. So a third of your playoff is going to be made up of G5 or Big 12. Are you going to drop Alabama out if they get blown out? Like, I'm not independent of what I think should happen. I think the committee would drop them out, at which point you would have this whole sidebar of chaos with the SEC and they would have a legit. Right. Georgia would be in. That's just going to be a crazy. I mean, you would, you would really get around to even asking, is Notre Dame in? Because you got to make room for all these teams.

Taylor (104:10)

Right.

Josh Pate (104:11)

And by the way, my opinion is Notre Dame is not nearly as solidly just in the playoff as people assume they are, because you don't know how many teams you got to make room for. So I dropped Notre Dame out before I dropped Alabama out in that scenario because one of them played for conference title and one of them didn't. And I'm not going to punish him. But then the other part of that is. So let's just look at tomorrow night. We're recording this on Monday. Tuesday night, the rankings come out. We assume Notre Dame's probably still going to be ranked ahead of Miami. But Miami's got another data point now. They went and smoked Pittsburgh worse than Notre Dame did on the road. And we're going to have to find out, does the committee look at that and still say yeah, we don't care. We just think Notre Dame's better. So we know you guys played head to head and we know that Miami's beaten several comparable opponents worse than Notre Dame did. Well, we don't care about that because our eyeballs tell us Notre Dame's better. Which I agree with, by the way. I just think it's irrelevant because you should have set parameters that actually matter and they are enforced. So we got to find out where Miami and Notre Dame are going to be tomorrow night so that we can project who would potentially be left out. And then the. You want a real chaos scenario. Ole Miss is sitting there as the projected seven seed right now.

Taylor (105:22)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (105:22)

All right.

Will (105:22)

Well, the coaching whole staff.

Josh Pate (105:23)

Yeah.

Taylor (105:24)

Coaching staff is gutted.

Josh Pate (105:25)

Coaching staff leaves. And the committee has it in their protocol to redefine how good a team is if you've lost a player like Jordan Travis 2023 undefeated Florida State or if you lose coaches Ole Miss this year. So there is this world where the committee looks at Ole Miss and says, sorry guys, that's chaos.

Taylor (105:46)

But and also to domino effect of that chaos too. Based on the rules of conference champion winners and everything else. It's like, you know, the coaches leaving at Tulane in North Texas, they'll be in there in the playoff without their head coach.

Josh Pate (106:01)

Yep. But the difference there structure difference there is if Tulane wins the American this Saturday, they're a conference champ. There's this designation on them. It doesn't matter if the committee thinks they're the worst team in the country. They've got to put them in if they're one of the five highest ranked conference champs. With Ole Miss, they're just an at large team. So it's totally up to the committee whether they get put in just like it. It's the same with Notre Dame. It's the same with Oklahoma. It would be the same with Oregon, with Texas A and M, they're at larges. So the committee's got to give you a spot. You didn't technically earn it by this designation of being a conference conference champ. It's messy. It's really messy.

Will (106:35)

Is this fixed or does it hurt more if you expand the playoff, which I know you've been a guy that is totally against, but then you get Vandy in. Ole miss stays. These G5 teams, I don't know what the hell they even deal with them. Virginia's in.

Josh Pate (106:49)

Let me tell you my theory. It was the same when it was a 14 playoff. I've never thought that just because people are mad it Means something's wrong. I just think it means you have something really valuable and there aren't a whole lot of them and a bunch of people want them bunch of flawed teams. So no team's perfect up here. So we're looking at varying degrees of flawed resumes and we're trying to find the 12 least flawed. Although you could argue that's not really the case with the whole G5 thing. But no, I don't think you should ever expand it. You can't expand the playoff enough to ever stop conversation and ever stop anger and ever stop hurt feelings. It would be the exact same. Like people always say this, but they're right. You would have to expand the thing to 136 teams before you fully rid yourself of people being upset that they got left out. So you either expand it to the point where there are still some upset people and hurt feelings, but it's really, really must see stuff late November, early December, or you expand it to the point where not only does everyone who deserves to get in get in, but we also probably throw in a few that don't deserve to get in. Like what puts more value, what puts more premium on regular season games?

Will (107:58)

Those who deserve to get in get in.

Josh Pate (108:00)

And maybe if, if one or two have to get left out, that just means the room's really packed. Like no one stands in line to get into a building where there's room for everyone. You stand in line because it's pretty exclusive and it means something to get in there.

Will (108:15)

Do you think we have this issue if it was we were back in time and it's a 14 playoff, you.

Josh Pate (108:20)

Always had the issue. It's just you wouldn't be arguing about 12, 13, 14 because you would know, man, they were way on the outside.

Will (108:26)

Right.

Josh Pate (108:26)

Your logic there is what I always think about when I'm getting upset. Like I'll get upset inevitably about someone getting left out of this thing. But I always try and tell myself, dude, just think back to the four team era. You're arguing about teams right now that would have been way, way, way outside the four team field. And even back then we used to say, dude, there aren't four teams that can win a title this year. Just like this year there, there probably aren't 6, 7, 8 teams that are going to be able to win a title with how Ohio State looks.

Will (108:52)

So.

Josh Pate (108:52)

So we're really arguing semantics and you get sucked into it. Like I feel, I feel good about Vandy. I love what they've done. I think it would be Insane. If Bama got left out because they're in the SEC championship game, you're crazy. If you punish Ole Miss because they lost their coaching staff, which those players have no control over. Do I think any of them are going to win a national title? Probably not. And if that's the whole purpose of this thing, like, I know there are dual compartments. I understand two different conversations.

Will (109:20)

Yeah. This is a, this is why college football is the best.

Josh Pate (109:23)

It's going to be a mess, man.

Will (109:24)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (109:25)

There's no way around it.

Taylor (109:26)

I love the chaos, man. I just, I, I, I, it's like I just want the 12 best. Like, we're, we're sitting here waiting on some of these games to matter, and a couple of the championship games don't even matter this weekend. So you want to see how that's all going to play out. And we're. This scenario where you got a couple big 12 teams in, couple G5 teams in. Do you leave out Miami? Do you leave out Notre Dame game? It's like they, Miami, Notre Dame are very strongly One of the 12 best teams in, in college football.

Josh Pate (109:57)

Yeah.

Will (109:58)

Yeah.

Taylor (109:58)

But so, yeah, same with Vanderbilt. You got this Texas noise being louder than ever now.

Josh Pate (110:03)

Let me say this.

Taylor (110:04)

Sometimes it weirdly makes sense. Yeah.

Will (110:06)

No, they do a great job of, like, spinning it.

Taylor (110:07)

Semantics are very good.

Josh Pate (110:09)

Let me say this about Miami. Miami has put themselves in this position, okay? So you, you can't be losing to Louisville and smu. You can lose one of them, you can't lose both. So I'm not trying to absolve them of that. It's 100% their fault they're even in this position. But like I said, we got to apply that logic evenly. So Notre Dame lost a couple of games, including one at home to A and M off a buy in desperation mode. Don't be losing that game. So, like, everyone has put themselves in these positions. Bama minus three turnovers against Oklahoma. That's why you're in this position. So if we remove that sentiment from the equation, I'm not picking Miami to win a national title, even if they get in the playoff. But I will say, if you were to ask Georgia or Ohio State or Indiana's coaching staff, the one group of personnel that would concern them the most are the defensive guys that Miami has because they probably have the two best ends in college football right now. Extremely good, like long good future Sunday athletes that could give you problems. They're probably not going to win four games to go in at all, but they in a one off scenario could give you way more problems than probably some of these other teams that are going to get in.

Will (111:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Taylor (111:21)

Chris Ball talking about it's like Jurassic park every day at practice with those guys.

Josh Pate (111:26)

He's not wrong.

Taylor (111:27)

He's not.

Josh Pate (111:27)

He's not wrong.

Will (111:28)

Yeah, I just. This whole G5 thing, I don't get it. I don't understand it. I don't know why they would be allowed to be in just because they won their conference.

Taylor (111:38)

It's like what, the rules and stuff? Yeah, several times throughout the last few weeks.

Josh Pate (111:43)

I'll tell you what, I think the change is going to be like.

Taylor (111:45)

Oh, shit.

Josh Pate (111:46)

I think the change that they could make right now that would greatly absolve this is keep all the rules as as they are, but make the rule where your five highest ranked conference champs all have to be ranked at a certain level. Like they all have to be top 15 so that if Duke wins Saturday or North Texas wins or JMU wins, they're a conference champ. If they're not in the top 15 at least then we're just going to override it.

Taylor (112:13)

And you're not getting it comes in at large.

Josh Pate (112:15)

Yeah, it just becomes an at large spot.

Will (112:17)

No, I like that a lot.

Josh Pate (112:18)

Because if you did that, let's say Duke wins Saturday, you're probably changing three spots or let's just say the G5 gets to keep one spot or so you're gonna have one G5 in, but you would free up two other spots that right now are going to be held by G5 and whoever else makes that so. Or at least one other spot. So yeah, I think they will move pretty immediately. They can't rid the playoff of G5 because it's illegal. So they can't do that. What they can do is keep the G5 with one spot and make sure in the future the G5 is not getting more than one spot because everyone knows it's a far Right.

Will (112:54)

If there's two spots open. Who are you, Josh Pay giving the nod to larges? Yeah. If we said, hey, the G5, that doesn't exist anymore. Duke beats Virginia. So ACC is kind of out.

Josh Pate (113:08)

Probably Miami and Vanderbilt would. Would be the two. But then Texas would come in and say if we're even in that conversation, we belong in over Vandy because we beat him.

Will (113:18)

Right.

Josh Pate (113:18)

So I'd be, I'd be okay with that.

Taylor (113:21)

That's what's crazy too. Texas three loss. But they did beat Vanderbilt.

Josh Pate (113:24)

Yep.

Will (113:25)

Three top 10 teams, right?

Mitch Carsley (113:27)

Yeah.

Taylor (113:27)

They beat A&M and OU as well, sure did. Took, took care of OU, took care.

Will (113:35)

Of you and oh, you to me is one of the more unstable teams in this whole bracket. Like their defense is really good, but they don't really do a whole lot on offense.

Taylor (113:43)

But their schedule against anybody else, like they've taken care of business. They needed to, to where they're a two loss team, but it's like they.

Josh Pate (113:51)

Yeah, yep.

Taylor (113:52)

Like they're in. What do you do if BYU loses by a game winning field goal against Texas Tech?

Josh Pate (113:58)

Got to see where they're ranked tomorrow night. If they're not in the top 10, they're not going to be in. So they got to be in the top 10. It's the same thing with Bama, only I think BYU is even more vulnerable to getting bumped out because they're in an inferior conference.

Taylor (114:10)

Absolutely. I guess my argument is like, like for BYU is like when you're looking at all these, all this chaos, all this semantics, BYU would have only lost. Their only team that they've lost to is Texas Tech.

Josh Pate (114:21)

Yeah.

Taylor (114:22)

And if they're losing on a game winning field goal in the Big 12 championship and that one team who beat him, yes, they have two losses but they've only lost to one team, that one team who beat them. That's what gets them out. Whereas if, if both, if the game winning field goal for Texas Tech happens and say Bama loses and they're a three loss team. But you can't keep, you can't keep Alabama out. But you, you bump out BYU like, like again, I'm here for the ride. I think I'm gonna have popcorn sitting there. I love all the chaos. I love rooting for all these teams in a weird way, but also shitting on teams in a weird way. I love all the entertainment.

Josh Pate (114:54)

You know, the other thing is with the S.E.C. is I, I think it's a low key, really good thing for Bama that Georgia got in the SEC title game because even if you lose to them, you get to make the argument we went into their building and beat them earlier in the year. So you're telling us we're getting bumped out because we couldn't beat Georgia? No, we already did. And we beat them in their building early in the year and then we got penalized because we earned the right to play them again and we couldn't beat him a second time around. Like they're, I don't need to make the talking points for the SEC because they're pretty obvious in that scenario. But with Brigham Young, just watch the show tomorrow night. And if they're behind Alabama already, which I think they will be if you get that apples to apples comparison, they'll have no leverage over Alabama.

Taylor (115:38)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (115:38)

Yeah, they won't. I don't think they'll be in.

Taylor (115:40)

Yeah. Shall be fun. Should we dive into some. Some Lane Kiffin, buddy. Some Lane Kiffin. Did something happen, Buddy?

Will (115:51)

Where do we stand on this whole thing? There's a piece of me that feels bad for the players. Yeah, I understand why Keith Carter won't. I completely understand why Keith Carter won't let Lane coach. Yeah, that like makes too much sense. At the same time, it's like, but these kids probably want a real shot at going after a title. So they would probably lean towards, hey, we want Lane to coach us, even though he's going to poach us.

Josh Pate (116:11)

All right, can you read this right quick? Can we just bat this down right quick? So read that for me.

Taylor (116:16)

Okay, we got some tear talk right here from Washington State. The Washington State. Hard to complain about a kid's loyalty in the transfer portal when the coaches they look up to are even worse.

Josh Pate (116:24)

All right, there is a lot of truth on the surface to this because coaches are looking around constantly. I mean, coaches are demanding loyalty and yet they jump at the first opportunity they get. I. That part is accurate. A lot of people have been saying the players are, you know, like, I was dealing with this this morning on another show. Someone said, man, the players don't need to open their mouths on this. They're a little hypocritical because the players are always moving around. So how can those players at Ole Miss theoretically complain about Lane Kiffin leaving? Well, the players don't leave in the middle of the season. The players don't get to the playoff and then say, I'm out. And so this is a little bit apples to oranges on that front. Alright? So there are two sides to that. That question that he just asked. But then the follow up to that is even if the players were able to leave in the middle of the season or the players are able to leave and go as many places as they want to right now, it's just like Lane Kiffin having to take this job right now. It's just like coaching searches having to happen in the middle of the season, it all gets tied back to the same thing. That you have no discernible structure in the sport. So the players didn't write the rules. Lane Kiffin, the AD at Ole Miss, the AD at lsu. They didn't write the rules. They didn't make the calendar so you don't have to carry water for these people. Lane could have handled this a whole lot better, but it's not running interference for any one person to generically say, dude, how about we fix the calendar here to where this doesn't have to happen. Like, I highly doubt Lane Kiffin woke up one morning and said, you know what I want in the middle of this playoff run, this historic season at Ole Miss? I'd love to leave in the middle of it and take a new job.

Will (117:59)

Right.

Josh Pate (118:00)

I doubt that happened.

Will (118:01)

Yeah, I don't. I think, I think we're just. The biggest issue is the calendar. That's the biggest problem.

Taylor (118:09)

But people are aware. People are aware of that now.

Josh Pate (118:12)

Yeah, people are aware of it finally.

Taylor (118:14)

Yeah, it's like we on the macro. It is like it's the coaching calendar. Like, Lane was put in a very tough spot and guys like us, it's like you can sit here and be torn. I know for me personally, it's like you're torn on how you feel. Because now as a fan, as what we do, the entertainment aspect, the, the TV series that goes on with Lane Kiffin, you love diving in all that. I think it's, it's great for college football. But the other side, having been a, been a player, I'm sitting there thinking, like, man, if Pollini or something, this would have happened in the middle of my senior year or not. Not like thinking the guys that we had. And it happens during our senior year, during our run, we're going to the playoff. We're sitting there at 11 and 1. I would be gutted, right? I would be gutted as a player. Like, think of. What's the quarterback's name? Childress or not Childress. Trinidad. Trinidad, yeah, Trinidad. It's like him knowing his offensive staff is gone in the, in the middle of what Ole Miss has done this year, all those offensive players. Because really it's the offensive side that's been good.

Will (119:10)

Gutted after being a D2 cat, comes and transfers, was a backup and then takes over and keeps him in the historic.

Taylor (119:15)

It's all short. It's all, it's all short term vision for those guys right now that are trying to finish up a season that they started, that they earned. Been in all these conversations. So, so that's where I sit there and get torn because it's like I, I hate it for those players. I hate it for the players because I'm just thinking of that situation. Had it been with myself at Nebraska and you're just like, it sucks that it has to be that way.

Mitch Carsley (119:37)

Way.

Taylor (119:37)

If you pull yourself all the way out of it and look at it from 30,000ft, it's all the calendar. Like, they're putting these tough spots, but then you zoom in. You want to get the popcorn. Popcorn. Ready for this Gossip Girl series with Lane Kiffin. He did handle a tough situation very poorly, and now I see why Ole Miss fans are pissed. It's like, I'm excited for him to go to LSU because I think he's going to be good at lsu.

Will Compton (119:59)

All.

Taylor (119:59)

Just all the drama. I love all the drama. I see every side. It sucks. Bucks and he's at LSU now.

Will (120:05)

I'm not disagreeing, but what did Elaine Kiffin do that handled this poorly other than the calendar just made him make a decision. Now just.

Taylor (120:13)

Just leave. At the heartstrings of everybody.

Josh Pate (120:15)

I think it was the consistent drip.

Will (120:17)

Is that not just Lane in general, though that is shown Lane.

Taylor (120:21)

That doesn't justify how everybody else should subjectively look at him. It's like, oh, that's Lane. It's like, no, bro, like you. It's the middle of the night, and he's dropping a tweet through his dog's Twitter account. Ole Miss in Georgia. And being like, I just want to know if they're going to allow dogs here. And this is in the middle when Marty Smith is dying. He's getting weaker and older. Just wanting to know if there's a decision going to be made because they're all. Everybody's sitting in that house trying to figure everything out. And then the dog tweet goes out.

Josh Pate (120:49)

That was a hostage situation over there.

Taylor (120:50)

A hostage.

Josh Pate (120:51)

Marty Smith survived this. He didn't cover it. He survived this. But you know what you just said? You just said a point and then another point and then another point, and you offered, like, 37 perspectives. The crazy thing about this is, have you heard anyone offer another slant on this that you've heard and said, man, I totally disagree with that. I've agreed with what everyone has said because there's so many different angles on it. I'll give you one more. Be an Ole Miss fan. Be an Ole Miss donor right now, but rewind six years. Lane Kiffin is down in Boca. He is the head coach at fau. He is toxic. He is radioactive. Nick Saban is a few years removed from firing him the week of a national championship game to get him out of his building. No one will touch him. And he's. He's just dying for a job. He's dying for a shot. And Ole Miss is the one major program in the SEC that's willing to give him a shot when no one would touch him. Not only that, he comes there, he starts to win. He tries to get out once or twice, and team still won't touch him. And then he kind of toys with Auburn, but he reverses course of the 11th hour. But finally you get to the point six years later, where we've got a shot. Both of us, like, we've paid you, you've returned it to us in kind, but we got a shot to do something historic, and we gave you your opportunity. LSU would never touch you. They laughed at us for hiring you. So did Florida. And now they waited, and you rehabilitated your image on our dime. And you're telling us that when we finally got here, we're getting the payoff finally for giving you your shot. We gave you all this money. We said yes to everything. We let your dog have his own Twitter account like we did everything you wanted us to. You're just. You're just by. You're going to do an interview with Marty Smith on a tarmac, same place you got fired at usc. You're going to interview on a tarmac, and you're out of here. And who could disagree with that? So all the points of view I've heard, I agree with. I haven't heard anyone say anything where I'm like, I don't think that's true. I don't think that's legit.

Will (122:49)

If you're a donor for Ole Miss and you are the AD for Ole Miss, and we could reverse six years ago, however, how long it's been, and they would tell you, hey, Lane Kiffin, he's going to go 55 and 19 for you. He's got the most historic season in Ole Miss history. But then he's going to burn the shit out of you and he's going to leave. Would the AD and those boosters, would they sign up for that?

Josh Pate (123:12)

I think if they knew this was how the program was going to be left, I think probably they would still go on the ride, right? They made a lot of money there. They have. They have enhanced the image of Ole Miss football as well.

Will (123:22)

You look at Ole Miss, you don't look at them as like a stepping stone place anymore, even though Lane Kiffin just showed them that they're the most stepping stone place of all time, according to. But if you go back in time and you looked at every one of them and said, you're going to have these next six years, this is how it's going to go for you. You're going to be in the playoff. You're going to have the best season ever in Ole Miss history. But after that, the head coach, right before the playoff, he's going to fuck you guys. They'd probably all sit there for a second, take a deep breath like you are right now, and go, bring it. Yeah, you know what? We'll take it. Because where ole Ms. Was six years ago was, it was a shit show.

Josh Pate (123:52)

Yeah.

Will (123:53)

It was the, in the conversations with the Kentuckies in the Mississippi states and the Vanderbilts, like they were in that tier. And now you're in an upper tier conference or upper tier program.

Taylor (124:03)

Yeah.

Will (124:04)

So, yeah, any way you look at it, you kind of sit there and nod your head and go, yeah, I see that. Because when you're talking about being a player and I'm thinking about if I'm a senior and I've given my entire life to this program, and that's how it's left me, you almost makes me want to cry because you're like, holy shit. Because you imagine those seniors feel, and they're probably in the moment right now. They're like, hey, them, we don't need them. We'll go win this thing. They're gonna have the Cinderella story that everyone's looking for, and the reality is probably not. So they're like, kind of masking that pain, only to get like six months from now to be like, he really did just leave us, didn't he? After he told us all these things?

Taylor (124:37)

Yeah. Do you think he handled it well? I think because, not to mention.

Will (124:43)

No, no.

Taylor (124:43)

Everything I didn't know, even the, the documentary he had this year, I was like, you're like, that was like shaping his image of being where your feet are, enjoying the moment. It's not about money, yoga, prayer and all that. Where I need to be, you know, just rip it out. And then you, it's like, you know, I had conversations with God, my family, and this is where, this is where. Because even Marty asked him, what is, what does LSU offer that Ole Miss?

Josh Pate (125:07)

I don't know.

Taylor (125:08)

He's just like, I don't know. You know, I was praying on it and made a decision with my family.

Josh Pate (125:12)

Maybe it'll work out, maybe it doesn't. I don't know.

Will (125:13)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Prove it.

Taylor (125:16)

Right? Yeah.

Will (125:17)

I, I, I didn't know about the dog tweet. I didn't know about that. I think taking away, like, the trolling on Twitter, which you. It's hard to take that away. But just the position that Lane is put in, I can have empathy for the thought process of, like, no way you handle this correctly. Because if you go, if you stay at Ole Miss, you're here at Ole Miss, but you just drug along lsu, Auburn for a little bit in Florida up until last week, and now they're way behind the eight ball of who their coach is going to be, who their recruiting class, transfer portal, the whole thing. So you've kind of fucked three programs then.

Josh Pate (125:51)

Okay, but let me hit you with this. Is John Sumrall not the exact same situation? John Summerall, head coach at Tulane all year. They've been on a magical run. This year, they are one win away from punching their ticket to the playoff. John Sumrall has been interviewed by several programs over the last month for their head coaching vacancy. John Sumrall just took the Florida job. John Sumrall handled it professionally the entire way. He didn't talk about anything other than two lane football the entire way. He was communicative with his ad the entire way, which lane was too. So I'm not knocking him for that. But John Sumrall is in a conference championship this Saturday and is also being introduced as the Florida head coach today. And no one's hating on John Sumrall. So is it really just, oh, everyone hates Lane Kiffin. Cause, you know, he's the whale in the room. To a certain extent, yes, Lane's a much bigger name than John Summerall. But it's also, I think people have respect for the way John handled the process a whole lot more than the way Lane handled the process. And so, like, I got a bunch of LSU buddies that are saying, boy, it's really hypocritical. Everyone's hating on our guy. What about Summerall? What about Summer All? I just think he handled the whole process a whole lot differently.

Will (126:57)

I think so. You. You mentioned it not being the whale in the room. Summerall was not the wheel in the room. Some Somerl was a guy. If we don't get Lane, then we get Summerall.

Will Compton (127:05)

Right?

Taylor (127:05)

That.

Will (127:05)

And so it's much easier for Summerall to sit in the position he is. And once again, I'm not taking aside. I'm just arguing the point for Summerall to sit there and be like, I'm about to Lane. Because at this point, all he is about to lane no.

Josh Pate (127:16)

1.

Will (127:16)

People are kind of maybe calling him and being like, hey, if this doesn't happen, you're Our guy. And if, with that information, if you're somewhere all like, there's no other information to kind of have other than.

Josh Pate (127:25)

But he 100% had the Auburn job.

Will Compton (127:28)

Did he?

Taylor (127:28)

What happened? What happened with Auburn?

Josh Pate (127:30)

Auburn. Let me tell you something. That's a whole nother show. Auburn almost fantastically screwed themselves. Auburn had John Summerall done as late as last week. They had John Summerall done, and they messed around. I was so confident that Auburn had finally handed a coaching search the right way. And they had. And then they got to the finish line and they just tripped themselves up, you know, because they can't help it. And then John Sumrall says, no, I'm not. You're not. You're not going to dictate terms to me about who's going to be on my staff. And if they're going to be on my staff, I got to look them in the eye. I got to make sure they're right for me. So he said, peace, I'm out. And he could say that because he knew he was going to get the Florida job. But my point to you was, so Auburn pulled the nose up at the 11th hour. They got Alex Goelish. He's good. They almost crashed entirely. We could do a whole show on that today. But with John, John did know he had head coaching jobs. He knew, at the very least, I'm going to Auburn and that's going to be a major head coaching job in the sec. Florida's interested in me. Could have taken Arkansas in a heartbeat. Could have taken Virginia Tech. Like all those were on the table for him. He ends up at Florida because they don't get Lane. That's true. He would only have been on LSU's radar had they not gotten Lane. That's true. He also could have had the Ole Miss job. So he had several SEC irons in the fire and he knew he was going to leave Tulane, but yet he handled the entire season. I think the only way you can, given the circumstances. Yeah, I think people respect it a little bit more.

Will (128:51)

No, I can get on board with that.

Taylor (128:53)

Yes. I empathize with. With Lane. Not like he probably didn't know what he wanted to do.

Josh Pate (128:58)

I agree with that.

Will (128:59)

I'm sure he didn't.

Taylor (129:00)

People have. People had no clue what he was going to do. I like, I empathize with him having a hard decision and laying in bed and getting the heartstrings tugged on and everything else. I empathize with that because when the cheers stop, the dust settles. It is only you it's you and your family. You make whatever decision you think is best for you in this world. He thought it was he. At the end of the day, he took an Ole Miss job. He took in his mind a better opportunity, better backing, better structure. I. Look, he's. He does his thing. I'm. I'm all for that. Because again, it is only you in this world making your own decision. So if that's what he's most happy with, dude, go do your thing. It's just all the. The semantics that came around because John Sumrall, like, you just don't feel the TV series that came with John Summerall throughout the entire process. Again, he is aligned with his ad, probably, I'm assuming, with the team every step of the way. And when you are going to make these hard decisions because you're in a tough spot because of this calendar, with the coaching season, with the coaching cycle, when you're going to make these hard decisions, that's going to inevitably hurt feelings. No matter what you try and have as least amount of bloodshed as possible. And it felt like John Sumrall did that, and it felt like Lane Kiffin. It was just a bludgeoning across the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will (130:08)

He took the opportunity to pull the sword out.

Taylor (130:10)

Yeah.

Will (130:10)

And had the trauma from the last six years getting fired by Nick Saban and decided, I'm going to get mine right now on my way out.

Taylor (130:18)

Right. And then trying to point the finger at the AD on the way out, saying he won't let me talk to the team, he won't let me coach, thinking that I'm going to get us to 11 and 1. They'll kind of have no choice because I got. It's like, you got Saban, you had Herb street, the his n. The national voices that were saying they should still let him coach. So then when he's on his way out, he can do. Well, he didn't let me do it. It's like, bro, there's no world. There's no world where that AD should let you coach the College Football Playoff. I can sit there inside that building. I don't care if it's petty. Whatever. No, he's got to protect everything Ole Miss. And if you're leaving, bro, you got to go.

Josh Pate (130:49)

Go.

Will (130:49)

Gotta go.

Taylor (130:50)

I thought, yeah, the Herb Street, Saban stuff that was kind of blowing up everywhere they are, they're all the cause they're always ca.

Will (130:58)

They're working Sexton, man. He is. He's the ultimate winner in all of this, isn't he. Yeah, yeah. Why. Why not stay at Ole Miss? I'm sure at this point you had all the boosters saying, we'll give you all the money in the world.

Josh Pate (131:10)

Yeah, Money wasn't going to be the issue. One thing Lane was consistent about is money's not the issue for me. Like, I talked to him several times throughout this. He always reiterated that he was dead serious about that. It's a big deal for Jimmy and caa because not only. I mean, look, there's a business side of this where when you're negotiating a deal, if you're Jimmy Sexton negotiating like a keystone deal, which is going to impact the rest of the market, you've got like 50 other clients that are about to get a raise because of what you negotiate for Lane. So Lane couldn't have cared less about the money aspect of it. He's already made more than he'll spend in 10 lifetimes. However, I think he desired to be desired for so long, and he wasn't. And he sat at Ole Miss for a while. First off, he sat at Bama and fau. And finally he was desired enough to get the Ole Miss job. But remember, Lane's pretty old school in the way he looks at this stuff. So even if we're in the new age of college football, he still looks at the SEC the way an old school guy would look. And he's. He's looking at the LSU job like Saban looked at it a generation ago. It's like everything's there. These are not his words, but I probably believe folks like him think I'm pretty responsible for the success that Ole Miss has just had. Like, I am the reason this is happening again. Whether that's true or not, that's kind of the. Almost like the competitive, narcissistic quality you have to have to yourself to think I'm the cause of this. You look at LSU and you think, Ed won one there, Les won one there, Sabin won one there. It almost seems like LSU is just built to win titles no matter who's there. I'll go there and enhance what's already just a rocket ship. And I won't have to do all that work. All I'll have to do is turn the spigot on and let the natural resources and the natural advantages flow. And maybe I can win two or three at lsu. And whether that happens or not, I'm just telling you, I think I pretty well articulated how someone like him feels about why he takes the LSU job.

Will (133:06)

Yeah, yeah. He just wants to be great.

Taylor (133:08)

Yeah. He gets to focus on more on his and is great at. I tell you what, Twitter was fun though, buddy.

Josh Pate (133:15)

It was fire.

Taylor (133:17)

We got one right here. This from John Tweets. Sports. I made a difficult decision to leave my wife, who's been very loyal to me, for a woman she despises. I was hoping to keep living in our house through Christmas and acting like nothing was wrong. My request was denied by my wife despite the kids wanting me to stay through Christmas. Breaking down. That's a shame.

Josh Pate (133:37)

And Lane Kiffin would look like. Would look at that. Say, how dare that woman. Yeah.

Taylor (133:44)

Holy.

Will (133:45)

That is a John Tweet Sports. That's fantastic. It's a fantastic break stuff. That's what you want.

Taylor (133:51)

So you said something on the John Sumrall, Auburn. Auburn was wanting to put people around the program or around on his staff that he wasn't necessarily in the same room with to keep tabs on him.

Josh Pate (134:02)

Well, no, it's even worse than that. And this is.

Taylor (134:05)

They kind of slid there. I gotta kind of know why. They fumbled the bag with John Sumrall.

Josh Pate (134:10)

They had John. John wanted the Auburn job. I don't want to gloss over that. Like in coaching searches these days, sometimes it's just, let's go get the guy we think is best for the job and he's going to take our job because it's the next step. John Sumrall wanted the Auburn job because he wanted to be the Auburn Tigers head coach. And he just happens to be a really, really great candidate. So they had him locked up. There was also the DJ Durkin side, who was the interim head coach there. And I, I think John Cohen, the ad, had really become attached to the idea of dj. He's a phenomenal defensive mind. They wanted to keep him there. If they don't hire him as the permanent head coach, they want to keep him there as the defensive coordinator. So you, you know, you kind of, you maybe gauge John Summerall during your negotiation and say, what do you think about Durkin? And maybe Summerall is receptive to it. Maybe. He says, I like DJ a lot. You know, maybe. Maybe I'll have a place for him on my staff. That's okay. What's not okay is then taking that at Auburn to mean, all right, let's go ahead and extend DJ and let's sign him to a new deal and let's call John Summerall up and say, hey, hey, all right, he's going to be on your staff. That can't happen. It can't happen. For many reasons. But two of them I'll give you, is that makes you the ad, the guy that Durkin's answering to, not John Sumrall. Because John Sumrall is not the one who hired him or paid him. And secondly, you haven't even vetted him yet. You, the future head coach of Auburn, have not even sat down with this guy or these guys. Cause Durkin's not the only one they were trying to dictate with and looked them in the eye and pitched your vision and seen that they buy into it. You didn't even do any of that. And so if anyone's going to put conditions on you with how hard it already is to win, if you get your way on everything, you're not taking that job doubly, especially when you've got other programs that are bidding for your services. So Auburn screwed themselves fantastically early mid point of last week. We go into the Iron Bowl Saturday. I was down there and it was grim. And a lot of folks around there thought we're about to have to elevate Durkin. And I think John Cohen probably knew he had screwed that up. But then Alex Goelish turns down Arkansas because Auburn is on the table. And I think that they were able to salvage a situation to the point where I could easily see us three years down the road saying Auburn fumbled their way backwards into a huge win here. Because I'm very, very irrationally excited about the prospects of Alex Goelish at that place. Sometimes, you know how you just get a feel like some places are just like puzzle piece fits. I would have felt that about John there, too. These were both really good candidates. The market's going to be way higher on John than they are on Alex Goelish. You probably know more about Sumrall than Alex Goelish. I'm way high on John Sumrall. I'm way high on Alex Goelish, his potential at Auburn. Those people probably had to Google his name yesterday, but in time, I think they'll really, really love him down there. Quarterback play has been abysmal at Auburn for like the past 15 years, aside from a couple of exceptions. And the one thing I can promise, if nothing else, is quarterback play won't be an issue at Auburn. Maybe there'll be other issues. Maybe you can't stop Molasses in December defensively, but quarterback play will be really good under him.

Will (137:14)

What I know we got Greg, obviously in a couple minutes. So before we get you out of here during your show last night, you're still singing the praises of Matt Campbell. Where is is Penn State is still looking for a coach. I think it's insane that Matt Campbell.

Josh Pate (137:28)

Is not the guy I, I think it's insane.

Taylor (137:30)

I don't Penn State swinging on because there's these like they're swinging at air brother about to happen.

Will (137:35)

He's on my Auburn fumbling. I, I, I'm obviously an outsider watching, but like to have your coach fired in mid October and still be in the same position you are. And now all the coaches that people are like, hey, you should get these.

Taylor (137:45)

Guys go figured out in like 24 hours, dude.

Josh Pate (137:48)

Golden guy. Ole Miss had won four hours yesterday.

Will (137:51)

Yes. Ole Miss coach like you, he's like, me, yeah, okay, I'll do it. And Penn State is sitting there, they're.

Josh Pate (137:57)

Smoking cigs in the park.

Will (137:58)

Their head coach who they fired already has a job and you have no head coach.

Josh Pate (138:03)

And yet Matt Campbell is responsible for like 8 of the 10 plus 500 win seasons in conference plan. Iowa State has been over 500 in conference play 10 times in their history. Matt Campbell has been 8 of those 10 years. Not good enough for us though. We're not reaching out to him. We got things figured out.

Will (138:20)

So things are cold on Campbell from.

Josh Pate (138:22)

The Penn State perspective.

Will (138:23)

Yeah.

Josh Pate (138:24)

Now Matt's turned down several like, dude, Matt could have had the Tennessee job, could have had the Detroit Lions job, could have had the Florida State job. There are a ton of big name schools that he's turned down. Yeah. I don't know if that's out there, but it is now.

Will (138:36)

Okay.

Josh Pate (138:37)

Now Detroit, I'm told, ended up being okay with what they did.

Taylor (138:40)

Yeah. In the NFL world. I know you don't watch it. Lions are in a bit of a spot.

Will (138:45)

Lions are actually out of the playoffs right now.

Taylor (138:47)

As of right now.

Will (138:47)

As of right now. They're not good. They're technically not good right now.

Taylor (138:51)

Worked out with Detroit.

Josh Pate (138:52)

It's been okay.

Will (138:53)

Yeah. So Penn State, who are they going after?

Josh Pate (138:55)

I got no clue. Could be you. You could get a call later today that'd be sick.

Will (138:58)

I would turn it down.

Taylor (138:59)

I'm also, I'm seeing, I don't know how real it is. I'm seeing Hypo's name getting back in the.

Josh Pate (139:04)

I saw that. I know nothing about that. I'm not BSing you.

Taylor (139:07)

I know nothing about what was he. Who is he connected to?

Josh Pate (139:10)

Allegedly? Penn State, according to the message boards. Etc.

Taylor (139:14)

Penn State.

Will (139:15)

Big message board guy.

Josh Pate (139:16)

Yeah, big message board guy. How can you not be?

Taylor (139:18)

I was talking, I Was talking with Josh and I was like, penn State doing a good job keeping this stuff quiet. He's.

Josh Pate (139:23)

Well, there's nothing to talk about.

Taylor (139:24)

Kept it so quiet. But they've done a terrible job as far as their coaching search goes. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Will (139:28)

That's a fair point. Yeah. I mean, we knew Penn State was going downhill the minute Mitch got a dm.

Josh Pate (139:33)

Wow.

Will (139:33)

The minute Mitch got a dm, we knew. Okay, Penn State's in a bad spot.

Josh Pate (139:36)

That's a good tease for Wednesday.

Will (139:37)

Yeah, Great tease.

Taylor (139:39)

Yeah. We'll get to talk more when we do the locker room that's going to drop Wednesday night whenever the playoff rankings come out. Josh, bait, as always. Thank you, bro. Broke down a lot of good stuff right there. We will. We'll see you with Greg Olson.

Will (139:50)

Round of applause for Josh.

Taylor (139:52)

Applause. Josh bait. 30 off Black Friday bwtb.com 35 off Cyber Monday. Cyber Monday.

Will (139:59)

Yeah. Black Friday is done. That happened last week.

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Will (142:06)

Hey, audiobook lovers. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with musician, producer and walking encyclopedia Questlove.

Josh Pate (142:14)

We're talking about Mark Ronson's memoir, Night.

Will (142:17)

How to be a DJ in 90s New York City.

Taylor (142:20)

All right, like we talked about before.

Josh Pate (142:21)

Mark Ronson foundation sanctuary in the DJ booth.

Will (142:24)

What's a tool or piece of equipment in the studio or on stage that gives you the most control?

Will Compton (142:29)

So I have two microphones on stage. We have the microphone that you hear as the audience. Then we have a second microphone in which we communicate with each other. I feel like that second microphone kind of saved all of our friendships. No band likes each other after 20 years or 25 years. The Beatles broke up up in seven and a half years and we're going on 35.

Will (142:54)

Listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or.

Josh Pate (142:59)

Wherever you get your podcasts.

Will (143:07)

Coach Day first off, let's give a round of applause for Coach Day coming on the show.

Taylor (143:13)

I'm glad he, I'm glad he came on they, they, they surety leadership, the.

Will (143:17)

Whole thing, especially the way I've talked about you the last year, which I'm not going to shy away from. I will say this before we start. I have said a lot of nasty things even after like the spring tour. I've used the third base comment. I've, I've said not a leader of men. And you know, my opinion shouldn't and does not matter to you. However, I will say like I was wrong and you, you truly, you beat our ass and you did it with humility. You did it, you know, the way Ohio State probably should have done it last year. And you have shown a, you've proven me wrong and I, I want to formally apologize for that because it's, you know, it's one thing to make comments, a rivalry and stuff like that and things that I did believe at a time, but for you to go, I think it's 160 since the game that happened in Columbus last year. It shows how much of a leader you are in that locker room, and it's very impressive. So that is. That's all. That's the last nice thing. I'll say.

Coach Ryan Day (144:12)

Even though I appreciate it, Taylor, I got a lot of respect for you, and so. No, it means a lot. But it's a tribute to these guys and the program and these kids, and there's a lot of great life lessons, you know, over the last year, of just life. This is life, right?

Will (144:27)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (144:28)

You know, I mean, and this is the world we live in. This is the stage that we play on. And, you know, you know, you get what comes with, you know, losing games, and the only way to get it right is to get it fixed.

Will (144:40)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (144:41)

And, you know, we certainly, you know, have got it fixed the last 12 months, but, like, we got to move on because we got Indiana this week and certainly we got a lot ahead of us.

Will (144:49)

What is the. Well, I want to get into recruiting, Patricia, all that, but you brought up the Indiana game, and we had Josh Pate on the show earlier, and we're talking about, like, these conference games really are losing. They're losing kind of the. We're not really playing for a Big Ten championship. We're playing for a national championship. And if you have the one seed in Ohio State and the two seed Indiana, what's stopping you guys from just saying, hey, we're going to sit our best receivers, we're going to sit our quarterback and just be like, hey, the commission's already said they don't really care about, you know, conference championship games. Right.

Taylor (145:20)

We're both getting by week.

Will (145:21)

Yeah, we're getting, like, why not just move on? Yeah. And kind of wipe your hands with this thing. Obviously, there's a level of competition and all that that you want, but the, if the, if the big goal is a national championship, who cares about a Big Ten championship?

Coach Ryan Day (145:33)

Yeah, no, I, I hear what you're saying. I think they got to look at it for sure. But, you know, we. We're in it and we want to be the one seed. And I think everything matters when it. When it comes down to stretch. And so, you know, if you're just playing the numbers and you're playing, you know, the trends, you know, you want to be in a situation where you're the one seed going into the playoffs. So. So that's it. I also think there's a lot to momentum. You know, I feel like when you have momentum, you got to keep it. When you don't, you got to go get it. I feel like we have momentum. I Want to keep momentum with the team. And, and these guys are just competitive dudes that just love to win. And, you know, winning a Big Ten championship does matter. It was one of the things that was on our list of goals. So it'll be a great environment. Like, it'll be, you know, it's Indianapolis. They'll have a great crowd.

Josh Pate (146:17)

We'll have a great crowd.

Coach Ryan Day (146:19)

So, you know, we want to win. You know, we want to be undefeated. We want to be the one seed. So that's, that's, that's what's motivating us.

Taylor (146:27)

Yeah. And the way it stands right now, like, we're seeing 1v2, we're seeing a potential preview of what the national championship is going to look like. So I'm sure there's. There's going to be that level of juice to it. What do you see with this Indiana football team? Coach Kirk Sinned, that he's done a hell of a job in his couple years there. They're on a roll. Fernando Mendoza, he's a very good football player. You have another great quarterback as well. And Julian saying, what do you see with this Indiana football team?

Coach Ryan Day (146:51)

Yeah, I think they, they're well coached. I think they don't make mistakes, you know, in all three phases. They play hard, they have good fundamentals. Like I said, they don't beat themselves. And, you know, they have a plan on how they're going to attack and they play fast. You know, like when you watch them on film, they are playing fast, they're playing downhill. You know, they're anticipating as opposed to reacting. And certainly, you know, having Mendoza there has really just taken them to the next level. And so this is going to be a hell of a game and a really good opponent.

Taylor (147:27)

Throughout the year, Ohio State's been categorized, you know, based on scheduling and everything else that can be boring. Like, the offense isn't explosive until they have to be yada, yada, yada. As a defensive guy myself, seeing what you guys have done defensively, which, again, that's. It's hard to. Since. Since the defense, they're not like, you know, this attacking, putting points on the board everywhere. Anything else, somebody who appreciates defense. Losing Coach Knowles to Penn State last year, you had the number one defense in the country to go out and get Coach Patricia, you've held every opponent to under 17 points a season. Your first in points per game allowed was 7.8 and yards allowed per game. What has it been like having Coach Matt Patricia in the building? What has he done with this defense? And you got cats everywhere across the board. But speak about the defense a little bit, because you guys. You guys crush teams defensively.

Will (148:15)

While you. While you answer that question, I'd love to also hear about the process of getting Matt Patricia in your building as well.

Taylor (148:20)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (148:23)

Yeah. So when everything went down after the season, it happened at a point where it was late in January, so a lot of the hiring cycle had already gone through, so kind of caught all of us off guard. And so one of the things that I've learned in this process is, like, don't rush into a decision in terms of your hires, man. You have to get this right. And even though there's recruiting involved and a lot of things that come into play, you know, we try to take our time on this and be really thorough. And the thing that I was really trying to look for was somebody that would come in and work with the staff that we already had and be willing to really buy into our culture and what we're doing, because it wasn't like someone was going to come in and bring in their staff. And we just won a national championship. We have a great defensive staff. I think the best in the country. And so. So, you know, I talked to some different guys, but Matt really separated himself one because of his background of winning Super Bowls and what he did in the NFL. And he's a former head coach in the NFL, and he's brilliant in so many different areas. But I knew Matt. He's from the Northeast like me. And so, you know, we had. We were acquaintances before, but the more time I spent with him, I just realized, like, how personable he is. Like, he's a family guy, and I felt like he would fit our team and our culture really, really well. And it's amazing to me, like, even when all that was going on, like, I got a lot of just pushback, you know, publicly. And, like, I just think so many people are now realizing what a special person he is. And, you know, he's done a great job from the minute he got here, and building trust, building relationships, he had certain level of credibility with our guys. You know, he. He looks at guys like Arvel Reese, Caleb Downs, you know, Kaden Curry, and he says, you know, this guy reminds me of Jamie Collins. This guy's like Ninkovich. This guy's like so and so and so. He kind of plugs them in based on the guys he's had in the past when he was with New England, and. And our guys just love it, man. They eat it up, these guys Love football. They love to compete and they've just been eating up the football. And that's, that's what Matty is, man. He loves ball, but he's done a great job building relationships.

Will (150:31)

Yeah, he got a lot. There's a lot of criticism with Matt Patricia and if it was going to work, him going down to college, but on the offensive side of the ball as well. Chip Kelly, he goes from college to the NFL. Obviously both these, both these coordinators have made a big mistake leaving Ohio State. Both of them are potentially out of a job at this point. But you take Brian Hartline and he goes from the wide receiver coach to the oc. When we were in a hot in Columbus, we got to meet with heartline energy, very infectious guy. I see him at the Texas Ohio State game, I go to give him a handshake, he looks like. He looks daggers through my eyes like you can go fuck yourself. And there's a lot of question marks like, is this guy going to be able. He's obviously an incredible recruiter. The way you see the wide receiver room always line up, like every great receiver in the NFL right now, unfortunately went to Ohio State. But from a play calling standpoint, what was that process like elevating him in house?

Coach Ryan Day (151:21)

Yeah, no, he, as you, as you can, you can tell and you know, he's a competitive dude who really maximized every ounce of what he, you know, God gave him as a player. You know, he had a great career here at Ohio State and then, you know, played for a long time in the NFL. And the only way you do that is by, you know, really understanding, you know, the game, you know, how to find edges. And that's, that's him. And so, you know, he's done that with the wide receiver group. And now, you know, the next progression for him was being a coordinator. And I think a lot of guys just think like being a coordinator is calling plays. That's a big part of it. But so much of it is just the organization of the staff, the motivation, the, the organization of practice, you know, the, the messaging, the focus, like everything that comes with that. And so it's been great to be around that and watch it with him. You know, he's got a great staff around him. Tyler Bowen does a tremendous job. Keenan Bailey, Billy Fessler, Carlos Laughlin and, and having Matt on the other side of the ball allows me the opportunity to be there too. And, and to help along the way. So. So I think he's getting better and.

Taylor (152:28)

Better at it every day.

Coach Ryan Day (152:29)

And you Know, certainly we'll have to be at our best here down the stretch.

Taylor (152:32)

You have a great quarterback in Julian saying, why do you feel like he should be at the Heisman, at the Heisman ceremony later this month?

Coach Ryan Day (152:43)

Well, I think he has the highest completion percentage ever for a college football player.

Will (152:47)

Something someone told me.

Coach Ryan Day (152:48)

I mean, his accuracy is up 78.9%.

Will (152:51)

It's pretty decent.

Will Compton (152:51)

Yeah.

Will (152:52)

But, hey, there's an argument that he's just throwing routes on air because the receiver have so much damn separation. It's beautiful. I mean, that's the hater in me. That's the hater in me. Coming out a little bit. He's a great. He is obviously a very talented individual.

Josh Pate (153:03)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (153:04)

No, I get it. I mean, we have great receivers, but that's not his fault, you know, I mean, he's. He doesn't miss those throws by much, you know, and, like, you're right. Like, you know, Carnell did a great job on that route and the separation, even, you know, Jeremiah's route, you know, in that game, in that shot the other day. But those balls are, like, on the money, you know, I mean, he's just really, really accurate. I think he's got a special gift in terms of his intelligence, you know, being around him every day. He's intelligent, he can. He can handle high levels of information fast. And I thought, you know, in the game, on the first interception, they did a great job with disguise there, and they got him on that one. But, like, there was no panic because I know exactly what he saw, and, you know, he went right back at it. I mean, he's. He's got composure and he has a toughness about him. And that was the. I think he really had only played in a game that was like 50 degrees or colder, had never really played, like, any kind of elements. Now, we've been practicing in it, but for him to handle that with the snow going sideways and just the way he played, scramble for a first down and handle it big third downs. I mean, he was. He was excellent on third down. I just think that he's got some special gifts about him.

Will (154:16)

Was there. Was there a piece of you? When we went down and we drove the ball, we kicked three, and then the first throw, we get an interception. Was there a piece of you had to be that was like, oh, it's happening again?

Taylor (154:30)

Of course there was, dude.

Will (154:33)

I was thinking this. I was like, oh, my God, we're gonna do it again. And then once we kick, I was like, God damn it, we're Never going to score a touchdown, this defense. But what was going through your head when that pick happened?

Coach Ryan Day (154:45)

Well, the thing that never happened, though, is, like, I just never panicked, and neither did anybody on the sideline because, like, there was just a certain level of confidence we had going into this game, and it was like, I can't believe this is happening right now. And I just. All right. Because we wanted to have a fast start in the game. Yeah, that was kind of something that we talked about going in. We always want to do that. Obviously, everyone wants to have a fast start, but it was something that we felt like it was important. So when it didn't go that way, you know, it was like, what the hell is going on right now? But when you went over and you saw what happened on the first run, and the defense settled down, force three. And then the defense to go out there and not panic at all. I mean, they sprinted on the field. They were like, let's go watch this. And they got. They got to stop, and it's six nothing. And it's like, okay, we're all right. Let's put a drive together, go right down and score. And at that point, I think just the composure of the team, you know, and it's just the way these guys are, the way they're wired. Nothing. Nothing gets them, you know, rattled. And so.

Taylor (155:43)

But.

Coach Ryan Day (155:44)

But I think, you know, that goes back to our training and the confidence that we. We had going into the game and what we play with. But to say that I wasn't like, you got to be shitting me.

Will (155:56)

Oh, man, when that pick happened, I was like, like, oh, my God, dude.

Taylor (155:59)

I'll sit at home.

Will (156:00)

I was like, oh, because the chaos of. I mean, you're. You're more in it for the chaos. As a fan of. Of Michigan and playing at Michigan, I'm like, if we can pull this off again, this would be. We might never lose again.

Taylor (156:12)

Yeah, we might never lose. I was telling you before, I was so. I'm so bought into the rivalry now. Like, obviously, you get to see all the fodder, all the talking. Like, you got little kids doing the. They're reenacting the flag at school for plays. Like, this rivalry is so insane, and I was so bought in, because it's like, I'm sitting there. I'm in the Fox Otto. I'm pulling for my boy. I'm like, okay, if Michigan wins, we'll get to see another year of all these antics, like, all this stuff that everybody gets entertained by. But I'm also Sitting back like, I know Ohio State is salivating to just beat this team's ass. And coach, obviously you're in the business where it's all compartmentalization. Goldfish memory. We got the next one. We got Indiana coming up this week. But just the initial emotion when you knew you had that game in the bag, and not only that, but having a 20 play drive where you're kind of pushing it up their ass a little bit and just in a fashion.

Will (157:02)

You don't have to say it like that.

Taylor (157:03)

I'm just, you know, you're right. That is what was happening.

Will (157:06)

Yeah.

Taylor (157:06)

There had to. You know, it's almost like kind of not f everybody else, but like I knew we're. That we're. This is what we're capable of doing to this team. And I'm glad we all finally showed up today and did it.

Mitch Carsley (157:16)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (157:16)

Yeah. I mean, the first thing that came to my mind was, why don't we do this last year?

Taylor (157:21)

Yeah.

Coach Ryan Day (157:21)

You know, I mean, I like, I mean, that's how crazy my mind works. And that's what I was thinking was like, I mean, how the hell did this, this happen last year? You know what I mean? That's just because. Just the way that, you know, we took the field and played in that game, you know, it's really how we've done it the last. The last 12 months. But you know what, that's life, you know, and, you know, life comes at you sideways at times, and it's all about how you respond. And, and, you know, I feel. Feel like there's times in that game where, you know, just it didn't go our way. And so every year you try to identify what those things are to get them fixed.

Taylor (157:57)

And.

Coach Ryan Day (157:58)

And so, you know, I, I often, like I said in the press conference, thought about how, you know, I wanted to respond after the game, but I just felt like it was the right thing to do, is just handle it with humility and celebrate, you know, with our team in a locker room. And man, it was. It was a memorable day in that locker room with that team. Yeah.

Taylor (158:16)

Yeah.

Will (158:17)

I mean, it truly had to be after all, like, the noise that took place this time last year. Everyone like, like big Ev from Barstool people are like, yeah, Ryan Day is not the guy for this team. Like, he can't beat Michigan. I think Cooper was also one in four against Michigan. He lost his job. You go win a national championship. Like, there had to be borderline tears getting this essentially off your back after going through all of that Shit for, like, the last year.

Taylor (158:46)

It's just bizarre, I think.

Coach Ryan Day (158:49)

But I think also, like, you know, in today's day and age, you know, there's a lot of things that get said and what you give energy to, you know, you control. And so at the end of the day, like, you know, you can listen and you listen to narratives, and, you know, people want to run with narratives. And when you're at Ohio State, certainly gets a lot of clicks and a lot of attention, and I get what people are trying to do, but, like, when you know deep down in your heart what's real, what isn't, you got to fight like hell to make sure that, you know, you get out there and improve the people that care about your right and the ones who don't wrong. I mean, that's. That's every day, right?

Taylor (159:28)

And.

Coach Ryan Day (159:28)

And so that'll be the same thing this week, every game. And every week's an opportunity to prove people right. Prove people wrong.

Taylor (159:33)

Yeah. As I was sitting there, it's like I have my popcorn ready the whole time because it's like I'm just wanting a spectacle. And when you. The way you handled it after the game, it was like, oh, I didn't even know. I'm sitting here thinking in my head, like, what's happening?

Will (159:45)

An option.

Taylor (159:45)

Yeah, yeah. This wasn't even an option in my head. And when that happened, I was like, oh, dude, much respect. Like. Like, that was. I mean, you got our boy. We got a producer in the back, Mitch Carsley, who's been an Ohio State fan forever, and he's kind of gotten, you know, he's been a little. A little fair weather at times. Like, not the most on the table for Ohio Stakes Taylor. You got Taylor, Michigan man here kind of. There's been some bullying going on to where he didn't feel. He felt a little more insecure about being an Ohio State fan because he didn't grow up in Ohio. But the way you handled after the game, it's got Mitch Carsley out here tweeting like, I'm so proud to be an Ohio State Buckeye. I feel like that's the inspiration. You've kind of spoken to the Ohio State fan base on the way you handled that after the game.

Mitch Carsley (160:24)

Yeah, Coach, this. This past game, like, I, like, like Will said, I've been bullied by Will and Taylor and thinking I'm a fair weather Ohio State fan, but, I mean, grew up going to two youth camps and, like, getting to meet you guys in person last year, like, and actually and at the end of the game, you say, we're winning this with humility. I'm like that. That's my head coach. So I just wanted to say thank you and.

Will (160:44)

Oh, all right, Mitch, that's. That's pretty much.

Coach Ryan Day (160:48)

You're not. You're not gonna tell. You're not gonna do a Bully Taylor now.

Mitch Carsley (160:51)

No, I, I will definitely. This one will definitely be held over his head as the last four have been held.

Taylor (160:57)

But you'll deal with class. Yeah, you'll do with class.

Josh Pate (161:00)

Do it with class.

Mitch Carsley (161:00)

And like, hey, just know that we, when we win, we do it with humility. We don't have to be flag planting or anything. Like, just know that that ass beat.

Taylor (161:09)

Show you. Show them how to be a fan. All right?

Will (161:11)

Okay.

Taylor (161:11)

Show them how to be a fan of a winning team. This is what it looks like.

Will (161:14)

All just relax. After the game. After the game was over, I texted Big av, Ohio, Tate, Eddie George, and I just said, congratulations. I did not text Mitch on purpose. I was like, fuck this guy, dude. I saw his tweet. But yeah, hey, listen, you got it for me, 365. Just wait till next year, though, am I right, Coach?

Josh Pate (161:30)

Dang, that's right.

Coach Ryan Day (161:30)

I know. We got one year and then we'll be back at it again.

Will (161:33)

Are we thinking, Are we thinking maybe go to the NFL now? Like, let's get you out. Let's get you out of there.

Josh Pate (161:39)

Let's just beat Indiana.

Coach Ryan Day (161:40)

How's that sound? But I will, I will say this, that, you know, just finishing up is just though, that, like, you know, being the head coach at Ohio State is a big responsibility. And obviously that rivalry game means a lot to a lot of people. So even just to hear the pride of everybody at Ohio State, that's ultimately what this is all about. It's pouring back into people, the players, the coaches, the fans, the supporters. That's what comes with this job. And it's a big obligation. And when you come up short, you got to figure out a way to get it fixed fast. And so that's what motivates me and our staff here. So, you know, it was a good day, but we got a lot of football ahead of us.

Taylor (162:16)

Coach, we appreciate you joining us, man. Thank you for your time.

Coach Ryan Day (162:19)

Absolutely.

Taylor (162:20)

Go in the Big Ten. It's going to be a fun game to watch. You guys in Indiana, both awesome football teams. I can't wait to see how it unfolds. Good luck in the playoff, bro. And maybe we'll see you next year. Maybe we'll see.

Coach Ryan Day (162:30)

Yeah, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate you guys.

Will (162:32)

Yeah, yeah. Appreciate you. Coach Dave, thank you for coming on.

Taylor (162:37)

Yes, sir.

Will (162:38)

Thank you, Coach.

Taylor (162:41)

That's a nice surprise. Yeah.

Will (162:42)

Did you guys, when did you guys know?

Taylor (162:44)

I, I didn't know, like, Ryan came on before and was like, would you like to have Coach day on for 20 minutes before the Cade and Diego come on? And he said, just give me a thumbs up or down. I just put thumbs up. I had no clue until we were sitting doing our show already.

Will (162:58)

I'll tell you what, dude, you see all the stuff like the Lou Holtz after the Notre Dame game, the Congress thing, not letting Dave and, and Columbus and stuff like that. But this year, like, I know him and Pat McAfee had beef, and so he goes on Pat McAfee. And for all the things that I said about Coach Day.

Taylor (163:16)

Yeah.

Will (163:17)

And then him to come on two days after and, you know, his ass is just quiet in the back of his head like this motherfucker, like, you gotta look at me in the eyes.

Taylor (163:25)

He's got receipts. He's got his receipts.

Will (163:26)

He's got his receipts. And I'll tell you what, do I like Ryan Day? I guess maybe more than anything, I respect Ryan Day. I respect Brian Harline, Matt, Patricia. Like, like, say what you want about that game. Like, I didn't even bring up the touchback. Was it a touchback? Was it not a touchback? Because even if it was a touchback, that it did not, that would not have changed the game. So, yeah, they beat her ass, man. They beat our ass.

Taylor (163:51)

And I thought I was gonna, I.

Will (163:52)

Had no choice but to respect, but to respect Coach Jay for that.

Taylor (163:55)

I thought I was gonna have to get knee pads for you there for a second the way you was.

Will (163:58)

Yeah, that's, that's a fun way to take it, but really it is like, it's just like, dude, hey. He, myself, myself, Dave, a bunch of people have said so many nasty things about him. And for him to just quietly go 160 and take, keep taking on the chin for 365 days, then come on our show, it's like, yeah, dude, I, I, I have to essentially pay the piper and be like, hey, I said all these things. You've proven me wrong. And I respect that. And oh, yeah, dude, I mean, there's, what else can I say? Hey, you're, hey, you. It's like, okay, that I, I, my team just lost 27 and not, and it was not even close compared to 27. 9 or maybe they'd be like, no, fuck you, Ryan Day. You're still born in third base. Like, yeah, he was born in third base, but he still elevated his team. And that sucks.

Taylor (164:44)

There was that article, too, that I was telling you about that came out last week or a couple weeks ago, where it talks about the standard that Jim Trestle set. Urban Meyer comes in, kind of holds that same standard, raises the bar, and then it's like, Ryan Day, who comes in, who hadn't had a head coaching job, and this is a guy that's not going to be able to keep the same expectation, right? And the article basically said everybody was right. He didn't keep that expectation. He elevated it because he's like the most winningest Ohio State head football coach in his tenure so far at Ohio State.

Will (165:14)

And, and, and I mean, you see the recruiting class, they're one and two every year. They crush the portal. Like, that's not stopping anytime soon. That's why in this video that I made after the Hostel Michigan game, it's like, hey, if your. Michigan, Michigan, unfortunately, the standard is your rival, and that's a shitty position for you, for you to be in. So you have to. If we have the resources, now is the time to funnel in all of those resources into having a team with similar talented players and scheme and clock management, all those things. Like, you. You have to make a decision now to do that or you're gonna get left in the dust.

Mitch Carsley (165:48)

I feel like you guys weren't. It's not like you guys are an untalented team. Like, you're just very. You're just very young. Because, I mean, last year they went nine and three.

Will (165:56)

Yeah, nine and three.

Taylor (165:57)

But, like, you see what happened to the boys, Nebraska, over the weekend.

Will (166:00)

We're the youngest team in the Big Ten. Like, we're the. We're the youngest team in the Big Ten that all those things are going for us. But to see the offense kind of sputter, like, you want to see growth throughout the year, and there's a lot of times, like, Michigan should not be kicking a field goal to win. As the clock striking zero against Northwestern, we shouldn't be in these types of dogfights. Like, yeah, we had a very talented team this year, like with six. Six freshman offensive line or six freshmen starting on the offense. A lot of young talent in the back end of our defense. But, like, you could see the different levels of what's taking place between. I'll say Michigan. And it sucks to say, like, I am a Michigan guy. Like, I'm a guy that Supports and loves Michigan. But, like, you have to be able to look at these things objectively and be like, this is the reality. Like, Peyton said it best on his show. Like, every team that's in the top 10 have given you question marks throughout the season. All Ohio State has done is giving you answers. And that. That's the reality. Like, that that is the team to beat in the national championship. Yeah.

Taylor (167:01)

And I. I. Look, I love your guys's rivalry so much because it's just so bizarre that you can win a Natty, but there's almost a real feeling of, like, it doesn't count because you didn't beat Michigan.

Will (167:13)

Right.

Taylor (167:14)

And Taylor's thinking, we got to reload. Like, the. The standard is Ohio State, like, beating. It's just winning that game.

Will (167:22)

Yeah. You could legit go. You could go 1 in 11.

Mitch Carsley (167:26)

As long as that one wins against Ohio State or Michigan, you do not care.

Will (167:29)

You can go 1 in 11 at Michigan or Ohio State. And if you beat Michigan or you beat Ohio State, like, yeah, it's all good.

Mitch Carsley (167:36)

You said. You said you beat Ohio State one time.

Will (167:39)

Yeah, I was one in three against Ohio State. It was when Trestle got fired because of the allegations, or he, like, stepped away and was it Luke Fickle? He took over.

Mitch Carsley (167:49)

I'm. I'm wondering, like, as, like, a.

Josh Pate (167:51)

Because you do. You.

Mitch Carsley (167:52)

You guys don't do gold pants, right?

Will (167:54)

No, we don't do nothing.

Mitch Carsley (167:55)

But, like, obviously, it's the biggest rivalry in football. Like, what is, like, that feeling afterwards? Like, like, did. You were like, holy. We beat Ohio State, dude.

Will (168:04)

We stormed. We stormed the field. I remember. I'm, like, looking around like, this is incredible. And, like, Chris Brown, my boy who played on the hockey team, he, like, grabs my shoulder pads. We're, like, hogging. It is. It's the best feeling in the world. It is the best feeling in the world to beat that team. Because literally, since you. Since you step on campus, every single day, you are. Something is mentioned about Ohio State. It's on a clock. When you walk in, it's in the locker room. Like, I love that there's no trophy. I love that it's just, like, hatred. Like, we hate each other. I'm not even sure how, but, like, we just hate each other. And you're just. You drink the Kool Aid the minute you walk in. It's the only thing that matters every single year. Like, Michigan State is an afterthought. Like, I went one in three against Michigan State. Even going one thing against, like, you guys are an Afterthought compared to Ohio State. It's just nuts, bro. It's nuts. Nuts. But, yeah, they are. Their exclamation point percentage out. 15 minutes out. Got it. What the happened?

Taylor (169:09)

I don't know, brother.

Will (169:10)

That was crazy.

Taylor (169:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mitch Carsley (169:15)

They. Look, Nebraska was. I. I had a parlay going for Friday. Nebraska was the only leg to not hit.

Will (169:23)

God.

Mitch Carsley (169:24)

And it's getting to the point where it's like, yes, like, I love you, Will, but, like, Nebraska is getting to the point where they're on the no bet list because they. The amount of parlays I've lost from.

Taylor (169:33)

Just them, it's like, look, I understand it. And if I'm you on piss off too. If I'm you, I'm putting them on the no bet list, too. We have to earn your trust back. And unfortunately, it's not going to happen until the bowl game.

Will (169:50)

No, no, no.

Taylor (169:53)

Oh, the bowl game is everything.

Will (169:56)

Bowl games don't matter for nothing.

Taylor (169:58)

We might be getting a. I've. I've heard rumors of potential Music City Bowl.

Will (170:02)

Yeah, I think there was an article that came out that's.

Taylor (170:05)

I haven't seen articles. Like, I've just had a couple buddies text, like, one.

Mitch Carsley (170:08)

Isn't it, like, projected right now? It's Tennessee and Nebraska.

Taylor (170:12)

I had a buddy text from Missouri being like, hey, looking like it could be Mizzou and Nebraska in the Music City Bowl. I have no clue. I haven't looked at the list. It's. Dude, it's been brutal. It was brutal to watch. I don't know, man. I don't. I don't have a whole lot of answers for you. We. It's. It wasn't good enough. We're sitting here seven and five at the end of the year. Failure of a season. I don't know. I. There's usually hope and optimism that I have to latch on to, and there hasn't been any over the last couple weeks. Like, we got killed from Penn State. But if you come out, you beat Iowa.

Will (170:50)

Don't matter.

Taylor (170:52)

Not that it doesn't matter, but you finish off eight and four. You have some, again, some hope and optimism on this team, turning it around because I want to say our record's been very poor in the month of November. Probably different variables going on. And defensively, man, it's just. It sucks to watch the way we are performing defensively.

Will (171:09)

Yeah.

Taylor (171:09)

I want to say over the last two games, like, Penn State and Iowa traveled in our red zone like, 10 times and they scored nine of 10. Been poor and Run defense. I want to say we're in the triple digits as far as rankings go.

Mitch Carsley (171:25)

Do you think. Do you think if you guys won like two more games, Emmett Johnson would like, be invited to New York and have a legit chance of winning?

Taylor (171:33)

I don't think New York, you know, legit chance of winning. I'm sure he's up for like the running back award and everything else. As he should be. I think he's an absolute stud, like running the football, catching the football. He does everything for Nebraska's offense.

Will (171:46)

Hey, real quick, don't, don't get off this conversation. I want to keep talking about Nebraska. I just got a pee so bad.

Taylor (171:51)

Okay, okay.

Mitch Carsley (171:53)

And he had what, 170 at halftime? 160.

Taylor (171:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some crazy, like, he plays. Dude, we're gonna miss him. I think he's gonna probably go to the league. Hope. I mean, if he stays, that's great. It'll. It'll always be interesting for guys who are mid round or lower round and nil. Like, do you stay for another year, get X amount more dollars playing? But as a running back, you only have so much tread on the tire. You do. Like, the ultimate goal is NFL and you're in the NFL. Second contract as far as financials and everything else goes. We'll see what he does. You got the portal stuff with Raiola happening?

Will (172:29)

Yeah.

Mitch Carsley (172:29)

I was gonna ask if we talked about. Did we talk about that last week or is that news this week?

Taylor (172:33)

Dude, the last week of such a blur.

Mitch Carsley (172:35)

I think it. I think it was news this week.

Taylor (172:37)

But yeah, it started to become news a little bit last week and now it's going to be it. I mean, it's going to be news. I don't know what articles have been written out there.

Mitch Carsley (172:44)

What are you hearing from the inside?

Taylor (172:46)

I'll wait till Taylor comes back on because I'm sure he'll want to ask questions about that. But yeah, dude, I mean, we got pummeled and it sucked.

Mitch Carsley (172:53)

I think was that Iowa's highest scoring game all season by like, a lot.

Taylor (172:58)

Yeah. And the Iowa Hawkeyes, man, like, they own us 10 of the last 11. And you can't. You know, there ain't gonna be like, I'll be talking my next year when it comes. But it's one where you just gotta. You just gotta tip your cap to them like they beat her ass. They are big, bro. There's no defense of the border. You know, George Kittle, he was, he was. He was hitting me up right away. Bruce Kittle, his Dad's hit me. I got the whole family. The kiddos hit me up.

Mitch Carsley (173:25)

What about Robert Gallery?

Taylor (173:27)

Robert Gallery. He's texting me. I forget what he said. I'm like, buddy, you need to take me to. You need to take me on one of your. What's it. What's the trip called?

Will (173:36)

Ivermectin.

Taylor (173:37)

No, ibogaine. Ibogaine Galleries. Hit me up. I'm like, buddy, you got to take me on one of your ibogaine trips. Like, the trauma and PTSD I'm gonna have from these Iowa Hawkeyes. Like, next one. Next one that you host. I need to be on.

Will (173:49)

Yeah.

Taylor (173:50)

You'd be puking my guts out, puking my pain and losses out from just the way we've been just getting pummeled these last two weeks.

Will (173:56)

Dude, the shitty thing, too, is, like, this was year three of Matt Rule.

Taylor (174:00)

Yeah. We were trending that way. Starting QB broke his leg.

Will (174:05)

Yeah.

Taylor (174:05)

I'm not here to make excuses.

Mitch Carsley (174:07)

We were talking, Taylor, when you were off the. The noise and everything of Raiola transferring. If Will was hearing anything on the inside, but he wanted to wait till you got back on.

Will (174:18)

Yeah. Are you willing to say on. I know you've had conversations.

Taylor (174:23)

Oh, you there. You know, by the fights for this program harder than Willie C. I know. You know I'm on the end. You know I'm in there.

Will (174:28)

Right. I'm saying we have micro microphones over us. I know if we were. Microphones were off, you would tell me everything. Are you. Do you want to talk about that on this?

Taylor (174:36)

I think he's gonna be looking at options from the standpoint of Detective Willie and all the stuff that was going on last week. It's in my mind when that Raiola stuff came out on. Nebraska is bracing themselves to lose rail in the portal. And then I'm hearing, oh, it's coming from the inside of Nebraska. And I'm thinking, dude, what is the upside for Nebraska to want to leak or have any article written about their star quarterback, Their starting quarterback.

Will (175:07)

Yeah.

Taylor (175:08)

That he's going to be available to the college football world two days before we play the Iowa Hawkeyes? Like, in no world would Nebraska have that article get out there, especially for it to be phrased and framed, that Nebraska is bracing. Like, basically, I'm hearing from sources that article had zero credibility and substance because there was no quotes from anybody on the inside. It was just pure speculation. Or I've talked to a couple guys like, no, who. Who have you talked to? And this is the same gentleman I Forget his name, but it might be Chris something with a C. Chris Hummer, I think Chris Hummer. It's the same gentleman that was on top of the. Is the same gentleman that was on top of the leak of Raiola potentially shopping in the portal last year being connected to the Miami Hurricanes. Chris Ummer had that story and that came out of left field that Dylan was shopping or that Dylan was kind of testing the portal a little bit, but Chris Hummer was on top of that one. And nobody else knew about that rumor other than Chris Hummer. And it's like, oh, yeah, but they need to be focused on. No, bro. That elite got out last year because you're leveraging for more nil money from Nebraska, which Dylan did get. And I'm all about the. The players getting paid. I'm all about these games. It's just. Don't make it seem like it's coming from inside Nebraska when it's clearly not.

Will (176:32)

Yeah.

Taylor (176:33)

Same guy was on the rumor last year with rail in Miami in the portal that, you know, you're leveraging it up. Yeah. Adam Wells wrote Bleacher Report article, but he's Adam Wells.

Will (176:44)

Not a C to be seen.

Taylor (176:45)

Yeah. But then also when this one come out, it's like, this ain't. Like this ain't coming from Nebraska football. I promise you that. So. And I respect the games being played, but let's not act like. Let's not all sit here and act like it's coming from inside the Nebraska building. It's not.

Will (176:59)

Let's not make up.

Taylor (177:01)

Yeah. Let's not make up. And words and optics matter in that game. You know, I'm sitting here like, we've been in the league. We've been in. We've been in contract negotiations. Right. Framework reports coming out from certain guys. Like, like all of that stuff matters. If it's coming out from Nebraska side, it's probably going to come out from what, Pete Nacos, I believe.

Will (177:21)

Yeah.

Taylor (177:21)

Or whenever he was on top of all the rules.

Will (177:23)

So do you think this is Dylan doing this? Do you think it's somebody.

Taylor (177:26)

No, I don't think. I don't think it's Dylan doing this. I don't. Dylan's probably focused on getting healthy because he broke his leg. Like, he's probably just. He's probably doing his thing, trying to get his leg healthy. He's probably in a tough spot. Like, we've all had major surgeries, especially when our first one happens. Like there's some very lonely. Like, I'm not this. Not at all coming from Dylan. But yeah, it's definitely coming in my opinion, from Rail A camp.

Will (177:49)

Rail A camp.

Taylor (177:50)

The Rail account. I don't, I don't know who, like there's no names. I'm saying Rayola Camp if you want, if you are shopping, you are actively shopping, which I've heard is happening. If you're actively shopping, that doesn't come like all that. And you want the college football world to know that Dylan is available, then you want an article out there. Like I'm saying, if I was in this place and say it was, it was my kid who was the quarterback or if it was me and I had all this high level thinking about it all and the strategy of it all, if you wanted to get out there, you don't want to come from, hey, I am actively shopping. While I'm still on Nebraska's football team. They're about to play the Iowa Hawkeyes. My brother just decommitted last week.

Will (178:33)

Right.

Taylor (178:34)

Like I'm not wanting it to be, hey, I'm doing all, all of this. Yeah. You want to seem like, come out a different way. And the way you'd want it to come out is the way it was written that Nebraska's bracing for Dylan to leave. Like it's a Nebraska, like a. There's a Nebraska reaction from this.

Will (178:48)

Yeah. Because last year I don't think I heard anything about Raiola shopping himself until after the fact. It's interesting that, yeah, like I had.

Taylor (178:55)

Heard when that came out and when it was happening, but in my brain it's like, like I, I again, I understand the game being played by players, by the institution and contract and hey, if we do have a really good quarterback, he could be looking at a lot of dollars out there and we want to keep him. We need a pony up and, and, and pay for him so that way we can keep him. Because this is a kid like Dylan Raola makes Nebraska better. Dylan Raila makes Nebraska better football team. So yes, I want Dylan Raola on the Nebraska Cornhuskers. Big Dylan Raola fan. I, I'm more like just speaking on just the antics. I'm more in the, the lore of Nebraska football than probably a lot of people that are listening right now. But with the articles and everything else coming out and then fingers feeling like it's being pointed at Nebraska rather than stuff out. This is where I gotta just defend my squad. This is where I got to defend the turf a little bit because I want him to. Yeah. Because when Matt Rule was staying, what was happening Right. The boys are out there posting. He ain't going nowhere. He's locked to stay. You want to shut this down, then you just publicly set up, hey, I'm not going anywhere. But that's not the reality that we're in right now.

Will (179:56)

Right. Which is. Which is totally fair for Dylan to do in the situation. My thought is, is like, if you're in Nebraska, what do you do? Because you just sign rule to an extension. He got the funding and the backing that he needs. Go get it. Get these players.

Taylor (180:10)

Yeah.

Will (180:10)

At what point do you pull a Tennessee and go, hey, we're not paying you anymore. Like, you've got enough money. We're trying to win a championship. We need this money to go get other players as well, to make you look better.

Taylor (180:20)

Right. This is where that goes out of my depths. I don't know if he's wanting more money or if he's just wanting another place to look.

Will (180:26)

Yeah.

Taylor (180:26)

For me, I'll just be like, buddy, don't like this. Finish what we're building something. He's a pivotal part of it. Finish what you start. Don't run from the fight. Heal up. We need you. Recruit these guys, build this program. You're the guy, you're the kid that's going to have a statue if you're.

Will (180:42)

If you're a running back, a receiver, a tight end, somebody puts on the offside of the ball, that gets the ball. You want to go to a place that you're going to be showcased and if you don't have a quarterback or you don't know if the quarterback that you would be throwing to you would be there, it's very difficult to get these guys big. Hey, we'll pay you $2 million to come. It's like, $2 million is great, but I'm trying to make it to the league and I need somebody to facilitate me the football. And that's the issue that Nebraska is running into. I hate this feeling for Nebraska right now.

Taylor (181:08)

I. I do, too.

Will (181:09)

I know. And. And as a friend, as long as I've known you, it's never felt this dark. And I'm not. I'm not saying that to.

Taylor (181:20)

I know you up.

Will (181:20)

I'm not. I'm not. I'm just saying this is a very, like, uncomfortable feeling sitting here being like, isn't like, is Nebraska getting better? Is there? I'm sure something's going to happen in the off season with transfer portal and recruiting class and all that. We'll be like, look at this. This is what we have to hang our head up right now. It doesn't feel like there's something there to be like Nebraska the next step next year.

Taylor (181:45)

Right. As far as like progressing from where the bar is at right now, like, I 100 believe rule is the guy. I just think.

Will (181:53)

I don't disagree with that.

Taylor (181:54)

We're going into an offseason where there's a lot of games as gameplay versus finding these ways to push the boat forward. It feels there's going to be a lot of recruiting that has to happen potentially in house. I have no clue. Right. But you're right and to the point because again, when you. We were talking before the year or before the year started and you said 7 and 5 and I'm like, 7 and 5 would feel like a failure of a season.

Will (182:14)

Sick to my stomach that we're sitting here and the answer is seven and five.

Taylor (182:17)

But you were saying, this is like, hey, just one step at a, you know, it's one game at a time. One step at a time.

Will (182:22)

I've already said that. I've already shook your hand and said that's not good enough.

Taylor (182:24)

Yeah.

Will (182:25)

Like, I wish you never made me shook my hand because I'd be able to sit there and be like, hey, you're technically a game better like 8 and 4 next year. 9 and 3.

Taylor (182:32)

Right. But I think you're in enough to where you, you can stand on the record. But my reaction to you having that record was like, no, bro, it won't be optimism.

Will (182:40)

No, you're right.

Taylor (182:41)

It's going to feel like we're failing. Yeah. And so that's where you end the year, seven and five. You end off these two ass opens. We took. We took from Penn State and Iowa and it's like, dang it, man.

Will (182:53)

You know, I'm with you because you're. You're right. Like, 7 and 5 is not okay.

Taylor (182:58)

Yeah.

Will (182:58)

Like, you guys have gotten the monkey off your back from a bowl game standpoint. That was fun. We had a good time with that. Like, bowl games don't matter. They don't. So players sit out, they. They go to the NFL. They. They start to transfer. Like. Like bowl games do not matter. And I said that before Michigan beat Alabama last year because bowl games don't fucking matter. So are your record 7 and 5?

Taylor (183:21)

Well, if we win a bowl game, we will be 8 and 5. You know what I'm saying?

Will (183:25)

That's where I disagree with you. I understand why you would do that for the mental aspect.

Taylor (183:28)

Well, there's teams like you're going to play a team to where. Yeah, it's not like Michigan was 7.

Will (183:32)

And 5 last year and then they played a bowl game that they won. They were seven and five.

Taylor (183:38)

Were you not fired up that they.

Will (183:39)

Yeah, I was stoked they beat Alabama. I'm like, oh, this is awesome. But the reality is, is half their team sat out and a lot of our guys sat out too. And it's like, all right. Like, that's if it happened in the regular season. I'm way more fired up than if it happened at a bowl game. Like, the Citrus bowl isn't getting me from six to midnight.

Taylor (183:59)

I. I feel what you're saying because, say, Emmett is going to the NFL, right? And he sits out of the bowl game, then, yeah, it's. I'm thinking to myself, all right, we lose this game. Like, we didn't have Emmett Johnson.

Will (184:11)

It's an insurance policy. Just like Alabama had an insurance policy last year. Like a lot of their players didn't play, a lot of our players didn't play. But at the same time, it's like you're just having two cool logos play each other. Alabama and Michigan. Oh, this is dope. You barely ever get to see this. Ain't nobody gives a fuck really about that. No one. No one actually cares.

Taylor (184:29)

You could if everybody in the locker room does. No, if everybody played, like, again, if we need everybody for the bowl game and everybody has that outlook and you rally for the bowl game. Absolutely.

Will (184:40)

To me, my brain trying to put out more film. My brain's on, well, look what just happened to Michigan versus Ohio State. How do we beat that? How do we beat. When they already have a top three recruiting class coming in. We need to go fuck a bowl game. You know, the bowl game.

Taylor (184:55)

That's a disservice to the boys. That's a disservice to the seniors, the guys who are still trying to play some ball.

Will (184:59)

The bowl game is important for the 15 practices. That's the most important part of the bowl game. That's the most important part of the bowl game, is to have 15 practices. She does excel work. I'm going to. I'm going to watch whatever game Michigan's in. And I'm be rooting for them. I'm be hoping they win.

Taylor (185:14)

I don't know if you are, man.

Will (185:15)

No, but at the end of the day, like, whether they win or lose, I want to see progress. So Bryce plays in the game or Jordan Marshall plays or, you know, these receivers. I want to see Andrew Marsh take a step I want to see Macaulay take a step even though he's a senior. Like, I want to see these things happen. So I go, I'm really excited for next year because the bowl game doesn't matter. Record wise. It doesn't do anything for you. The transfer portal, the recruiting class, the development of players, the spring practice, the camp, the season. That's what matters, truly. Because no one's going to look at the big bad Mower Bowl. No one's gonna be like, yeah, but we got that, didn't we, boys? Like, if 7 and 5 is a. Is not. Is not good enough for. For Nebraska, then having a big bad Mower bowl victory doesn't mean it's the.

Taylor (186:07)

Bad boys, not the big bad.

Will (186:11)

It's nine and three for Michigan. Yeah.

Taylor (186:13)

Hey, if Pavi and Kate are here, get it. Like, get him in. We got it.

Will Compton (186:16)

But this is separate because it's for the episode.

Will (186:18)

Oh, okay.

Taylor (186:19)

Ryan Day's not for.

Will (186:21)

No, he's for today.

Taylor (186:22)

Oh, I thought he was going on busing, because then you just seamlessly talk through.

Will (186:27)

He's. He's going on college football.

Taylor (186:29)

And then they're gonna rap, give footage.

Will (186:31)

To Jared for CFB for him to edit.

Taylor (186:34)

And then they want you guys over.

Josh Pate (186:36)

There with Kaden Pavia so we can.

Taylor (186:37)

Get a little bit of vlog, like, oh, I got you.

Will (186:42)

All that being said, man, all eyes on 26. Like, all eyes on January 2nd, that transfer portal opens, and I need a lot of block M's next to a lot of talent.

Josh Pate (186:53)

You need everybody.

Will (186:54)

I need everybody. Transfer portal. I need everybody. Cam Coleman, Ryan Williams, that kid from Clemson. Bring him. I meet him. Everybody, everybody.

Taylor (187:08)

It's like, I know the feeling that I have right now. It's a sad feeling because you can't see the light. But where my optimism lies is in the month of December when the headlines start coming out, whether it's transfer portal recruits, whatever it is, it's gonna be like, I knew. I knew that. Yeah, that was gonna come down the pipe.

Will (187:28)

The problem that Nebraska has right now is you guys have to beautifully orchestrate this chessboard between now and spring. Like, you have to handle the Dylan situation while also getting receivers, grabbing a couple of defensive guys. Like, it's gotta. You can't just make sure your boat's good. You've got to optimize your boat.

Taylor (187:49)

I agree. I think Coach Rule, I think he is the guy for the job, and with that job, I think he's going to have hard decisions to look at and make. Whether it's with staff, whether it's with players that you have to do that self scout because he is like, that is. Everybody's putting it into coach rule, leading us to this national title. I know one movie did make last off season. That was Mike Eckler. Hey, Coach Eck, man. He's up for awards with special teams. No.

Will (188:14)

Yeah. Ex the man.

Taylor (188:15)

Yeah, he is the man, bro. I'm. I'm so fired up that he's had. He's had success that he's been telling me that, you know, he's like, once I get. Dude, Will. He's teaching me about special teams. He's doing all these things. Once he got the job, I'm like, heck, I hear you, bro. I'm thinking best special teams in the country. I'm like, yeah, that would be awesome. But. But this could sell ice to an Eskimo. Like, he could sell anything.

Will (188:36)

I would have. I would love to poach Eckler to Michigan. Would love to. Because our special teams was all year.

Taylor (188:42)

Yeah. It crushed it, man. I was fired. I was pumped to see the success that he's had this year in Nebraska, especially being a Nebraska boy.

Will (188:49)

This is where. This is where, like, sadness starts to creep in for your team if your team's not in the playoff. It's like, I'm really excited to watch these playoffs unfold. The chaos, all that stuff.

Odoo Advertiser (188:58)

Stuff.

Will (188:59)

But this piece, man, it's like, I really wish it was August.

Taylor (189:02)

No, buddy, we are. Dude, this is prime.

Will (189:05)

I know, I know, but I just. I know, but I want to watch my boys.

Taylor (189:10)

Yeah.

Will (189:10)

But I want to watch my guys.

Taylor (189:12)

Think about the chaos we have coming up.

Will (189:15)

Oh, yeah.

Taylor (189:16)

That we get to live in. Watch from the inside. It's like going into an F5 and we're just sitting there in the. In the eye of the storm, seeing it happen. Especially if we get. Get BYU this weekend. Especially Georgia wins, BYU wins, Duke wins. Like, people are going to be going crazy. We get to have on Pavia and Cade a couple boys where they're sitting there at 10 and 2 like they should. Yeah, you guys deserve to be in. Absolutely.

Will (189:40)

But also, it seems like they're not.

Taylor (189:41)

It seems like they're not going to be in.

Will (189:43)

Kate's texting me last night. He's like, you think I. I'll. We'll talk about with him on the show. But he's like, what do you think if this happens?

Taylor (189:50)

And ultimately we have no clue.

Will (189:51)

We have no idea. I have no. I thought Clark Lee was to going leave. I told him hey, you got to get out. Clark Lee's going to go. He just had an extension.

Taylor (189:57)

I didn't know five top conference team, the five conference champs got in. Yeah, the people are fact checking me. I'm looking at the rules. I'm like, God damn. I guess I was wrong on that one. Dude, the G5, I just want the 12.

Will (190:07)

So dumb. The G5 thing is so dumb. You need an extraordinary G5 team to get in. And I know I caught a lot of heat on that. Shut up.

Taylor (190:17)

We cut a lot of love too, bro. Don't worry about the S. The loud minority.

Will (190:21)

Yeah, yeah, but I'm just saying, like when I would see a couple of comments and be like these folking guys, it's like, no, dude, you're North Texas. No disrespect, these are the big dogs. If you're 120 and you're winning by like a point differential of like 40, you guys should fucking be in that thing. Because I want to see that squad against that squad. But I don't want to see a one loss North Texas team who lost 63 to 39 versus some random ass school. I don't want to see JMU is 11 and 1. I don't too lame. You lost your coach.

Taylor (190:50)

And if so, it should just be one. Like to me it's, it comes down to you. Look, you look at high school football, it's 1A all the way up to 6A, right? Like there is levels and they've had a hell of a year to where if G5 is having a tournament, like I'd tune in, I would see who's gonna win the G5 tournament. The NIT. I would love to see an NIT tournament, just other classes. But yeah, bro, there's. There's too many of these bottom feeder type teams, not bottom, top of their bottom feeder conferences that are going to get into this playoff and screw out some teams that very much they are 12 of the best teams in college football.

Will (191:24)

You're going to say, I want to watch Tulane and Oregon versus Oregon and Vanderbilt. No fucking way. No way. Get bent. You want to watch, you want to watch North Texas and Oregon or do you want to watch Miami and Oregon? And I'm always saying that because they, they, they're the ones, they're the five seed. So they would play one of those teams.

Taylor (191:43)

I wish we could be fluid every year with the playoff to where you just make decisions based on what everybody's kind of feeling. To the point where I'm like, okay, you know What? We have 10 locks that are going to be in the college football play. There's going to be two spots left. Let's get an eight team bracket. All these arguments, all these teams. Miami, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, jmu, North Texas, Duke, Virginia. There's eight right there. Or BYU for one. And have them battle out for the two slots.

Will (192:08)

Don't think eight. Eight teams. Four. Yes. Okay, I'm back with you.

Taylor (192:13)

Two slots that go into their playing game of the championship, winner that championship then goes out and plays Ohio State after their bye week. Like the easiest spot to be in for Ohio State because teams got to play three more games before they get to them. And you want to earn your spot in the tournament?

Will (192:27)

Yes.

Taylor (192:27)

You got to go through this, you know, eight man bracket, get to the championship. That's the playing game to play Ohio State. That's how I want this game.

Will (192:35)

Here's what I want. I want the eight teams to play. You get to the final two teams. Hey, guys, you're both in. We go to a gas station on Odessa, Texas and we flip a coin and one. Whoever gets the coin toss is the 11. The other one is the 12.

Taylor (192:47)

Yeah, maybe.

Will Compton (192:48)

Maybe.

Will (192:48)

I like maybe.

Taylor (192:49)

With the three you are. Go argue for the SEC, right? It'd be Texas, it'd be Vanderbilt and then Bama. If Bama lost the SEC championship, you can just do.

Mitch Carsley (192:59)

Just do Vandy.

Will (193:03)

What was the.

Mitch Carsley (193:05)

Texas and Miami.

Taylor (193:07)

Right. If you get outside. I'm saying if the SEC had one, they want to go full Texas football mode. Like they. They know football. The best SEC, Bama loses.

Will (193:15)

You do 14 slots. Not eight slots. Four slots. You play one game.

Taylor (193:22)

Yeah.

Will (193:22)

And whoever wins that game, you two are in. You guys are in four slots.

Taylor (193:27)

We need everybody.

Will (193:28)

Everybody.

Taylor (193:29)

But if Bama loses and we're arguing, Bama, Vandy, you know Texas. Let's get them in a gas station. They'll just hit the flips. Ain't no curses. Yeah. Who's getting in the tournament? Oklahoma drill. Yeah. Yeah.

Will Compton (193:42)

All right.

Taylor (193:42)

We will see you tomorrow for a bus with the boys up. I don't want to stop tomorrow. Well, we'll carry it on. Whenever Diego and Kate get in here, we can ask them about bowl games. Yeah, because they were in a bowl game last year, weren't they? Yeah, they was in a regular bowl game. We can talk to them about it. We'll have Cade McConnell, doesn't count. Studdo alignment for the Vanderbilt Commodores. And then we got Diego Pavia, Heisman candidate, one of three, probably going to New York. We'll have him on the bus tomorrow. See you then.

Will Compton (194:08)

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Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but.

Will Compton (195:45)

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There the last one. Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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Josh Pate (197:09)

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Taylor (197:12)

Exchange for my life.

Josh Pate (197:13)

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Podcast Host (197:20)

Is an iHeart podcast.

Taylor (197:22)

Guaranteed Human.