B (2:55)

Oh, I'd love that. I always like to know too. Like, where did. Did obviously none of us start in entrepreneurship. Like, where were you before all of this got into play?

C (3:05)

Yeah, this is a kind of funny one, actually. You're absolutely right. Everybody has totally different journeys, don't they? And I did study business management at university, so there must have been something back then that knew I was going to dive into entrepreneurship at some point in my life, but I didn't really know what that was going to look like at the time. So I studied business management at. That's where I really, really found my passion for buyer behavior. But then I actually went into a number of different jobs, business operations. I actually was a PA for a while, moved to London, and I did also start to dive into the world of marketing there. So that was really my experience up until freelancing as a social media manager in 2020 and then developing into what I absolutely adore, where I can really bring this buyer behavior knowledge into the work that I do with my clients.

B (3:58)

Wow, I didn't even realize you're a social media manager. Are you also crazy like me? Just kidding. I feel like anyone who does social media for a living is a psycho. Just kidding. It's a great job. But gosh, it is, it's. It's tiring. But I love how you get into actually the psychology of all this, because as an agency owner, a lot of my clients are like, you're posting really good content for me. But how do we convert them? What do we need to get them to. To understand, to make that action? So I'm hoping that today you can kind of help us, you know, go from posting really good content to posting content that actually sells. So let's break it down. Let's start first in simpler terms. What does buyer behavior actually mean? And why should business owners actually hear about it when they're even creating their content?

C (4:50)

Yeah, I love this question. And the way I really talk about this is. Is always trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the ideal client, really trying to see things through their vision. And I think when we do this and when we understand what makes people buy, we can really start to then reverse Engineer what we need to do in our content to make sure we are creating that certainty for people. And of course, when we kind of bring this conscious awareness, the things that I'm going to share with you today, that becomes a lot easier to do. But it is essentially thinking about that. And actually, it can be as simple to start by asking, what makes you buy? I'm obsessed with doing this because I'm obsessed with this topic. But when I start asking other people, well, what made you buy that thing? You know, and they start to see the differences. Especially if we're looking at things like coaching or, you know, selling a service, we start to kind of really look at those specific reasons. And the way I like to look at this as well is, is by really honing in on the reasons that don't really shift, because we know that trends happen. We know that trends can influence buying decisions. We know that AI the rise of technology generally over the last couple of decades, that has really played a big part in how people buy. But what we can also really drill down into is specifically, you know, the motions that people go through to make those buying decisions. Hmm.

B (6:16)

That is so good. So, so good. So, okay, when you're pulling this out of people, what. I'm just curious, what do they say makes them buy? What are some off the rip? Yeah.

C (6:27)

This is really interesting, actually, because I had a new client who reflected this back to me just a couple of weeks ago. So, yeah, straight from the horse's mouth. And she told to me she actually reflected very much the pieces that I help people to intentionally bring into their content. But she said to me, she wants to know someone has a knowledge that she doesn't have or a level of expertise that she doesn't have. She wants to know why she should come to this person specifically. She wants to be able to see what it looks like to create that result. And that was about it, really, what she articulated back to me there. But it's really interesting. You tend to find the same things when you really drill down into this question.

B (7:11)

Yeah. When you're talking to people, are you seeing the same pattern? Are you seeing typically the same answer from people? Do we all. It's human. That's probably where the buyer psychology comes in, because we're all humans and we all kind of work the same. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. What kind of clients usually come to you and what are they frustrated about when they first start working with you?

C (7:31)

Yeah. So typically, I call this a brand perception gap. So almost every single one of my clients, they Come to me and they say, my clients love my work. They are raving about me. I wish the people in my audience online could see what my existing clients see. So there's this real gap in perception, you know, that the people online really can't grasp exactly what that is. And typically there's loads of different pieces that we drill down into with this. But typically it's because they're not actually articulating the things that their existing clients are actually obsessing over.

B (8:07)

Yes, I think that's. That's one of the things too. Like when we're sharing testimonials and stuff like that, it's. So sometimes it's challenging to articulate how happy your clients are without just like sharing a review or something like that. So do you deep dive with them to kind of pull out what people are liking about them and then you help them articulate that into their sales messaging?

C (8:31)

Yeah, absolutely. So I always refer to it as your brilliance. So I think of your brilliance as being the thing that only you can do. You know, it's the way you think. It's your unique perspective, perspectives. It's what makes you really different. So that's what I really extract from people. Because when we can articulate those things and quite often they're overlooked, people think, you know, I thought everybody knew that. I thought everybody had that skill set. But actually these are the specific skill sets that people are obsessing over that people are wanting to pay them for. So it's those pieces, quite often that we will really draw out and position to their ideal client in their content.

B (9:11)

Do you find that people. I've noticed that people use more jargon and like, it's, it's. You have to dumb it down. Right. And I feel like that's where there's a disconnect, is people don't know how to do that because they're like you said, they think, oh, they should already know that about me. Well, actually, they don't because you talk about it in these jargon terms.

C (9:31)

Yeah.

B (9:32)

So I feel like, I don't know, Dumbing it down is one of my biggest things that I say. I even say it to my social media managers. Dumb it down right now. This is. There's too many words in there that I don't even understand as the viewer or the audience. And you have to make sure that they're understanding what you're even saying.

C (9:47)

Yeah, I think that is so important. And this is really part of this, like, brand perception gap as well. I think it's first of all, understanding what those pieces are that people are going to be really obsessed with and want to pay them for. But it's also understanding how to actually position those pieces in a way that matters to that ideal client, you know, that really positions it as a priority to them, you know, because we can share all of our random thoughts all day long. And if people don't get why those are going to matter to them, then, you know, they're not necessarily going to take that next step. But if we can link everything back to what actually makes their existing clients obsessed, you know, that's when we're really going to be able to translate that online.

B (10:27)

I love that. I love that. So what's the difference? I'm going to go all in here. What's the difference between content that people like and content that actually makes them want to buy from you?

C (10:38)

Yeah, so if we think about content, and I know there are all different types of content, I know as you speak about this really often that you know, not every post is designed to convert. But if we think about putting out a post that you do want to convert, you know, you are selling your offer, let's say at the end of that post, or you're selling something at the end of that post, but it's getting likes instead of the dms, the inquiries, people actually buying from you. Then these are the three things that I really drill down into when I'm doing this work with clients.

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C (13:18)

So if somebody isn't buying what we can assume there is that their doubt outweighed their desire. I always think it's really, really logical whenever we make a buying decision, it's because we have more certainty that that's a good decision than it is a bad decision, basically. So what we want to do is dissolve the doubt that is keeping the doubt greater than the desire. And typically that doubt is either around you and why you are the person that they should hire or why you align with who they want to become and around whether you embody what they actually want to embody. Like all of these different pieces around you, your values, your shared beliefs, they have doubt around whether they can create, let's say, the result that your program or your offer creates. Do they actually have doubts around, you know, can I do that? So you might share your client testimonials, for example. But if someone is still sat there and you haven't dissolved that doubt around how they can also create that result if you, you know, they're going to stay on the fence. And then the other piece is whether you're actually positioning your offer as a priority to them. So that goes back to what we were saying earlier, connecting the dots, you know, really making sure that we are speaking to what they actually value the most. Because if we are leading with things like you say, that's perhaps jargon filled or you know, we're speaking only to the process. So you know, for example, regulate your hormones. When people just say regulate your hormones, people don't know what that actually means for them. Yeah, typically the pieces.

B (14:52)

Yes, that's, that's a perfect example right there. How can someone tell if their content is informative but it's not actually persuasive?

C (15:02)

This is a good Question. I mean, really, if we think about this really logically, I would actually ask someone, and I asked this question as well to gauge audience warmth. So if I'm talking to my clients and they're telling me I'm not sure how warm my audience is, then this sounds really, really simple and obvious. But I actually go and get them to have a look at how many inquiries they've received, how many sales they've received, you know, over a 90 day period, let's say. And that's how we're gauging audience warmth. So if your content isn't generating those inquiries and it isn't generating those sales consistently, then, you know, I would assume that it isn't compelling enough right now. It probably does fit into that informative category right now.

B (15:45)

Some people post such great content, but at the end of the day I'm like, you're posting really great content, but you're not selling at all. So you can't expect to have these leads when, when you're not even giving them like a strong call to action or like telling them what the next step is. Do you see that a lot too with people that are complaining that they're not getting inquiries?

C (16:02)

Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Yeah, it's definitely a case of. And again, I sometimes think it's an awareness piece. Like people think they are selling a lot more than what they actually.

B (16:12)

Yes. What's the difference between teaching from experience versus teaching from authority? I know authority was a big part of when I was doing some research on you. You talk a lot about that.

C (16:24)

Yeah, I love this question. And I have quite an interesting different perspective on authority positioning because I really believe, going back to what I was saying earlier, when you are removing people's doubt around why you are the person that they should hire, that's really your authority. You know, we are making it so clear, so clear that they feel certain that you are that person who can help them to get from A to B, let's say. And a few ways that I like to look at this, and it's actually a little bit backwards than probably what you might have heard in the industry, you know, general talk around this topic. But when you think of authority positioning, I know a lot of people, I actually asked this in a group last week. Everybody in this group said to me, certainty, conviction, you know, that to me is an authority. But if we actually drill down into that and we think about what creates that certainty, what a lot of people do is they think they sort of have to show up a certain way. And I'VE been there myself. I remember a time when I thought, I need to be, like, more high vibe, whatever, you know, whatever that actually means. I remember thinking, you know, I need to sort of change my personality a bit. I need to be doing these different things. But actually, that's what removes your authority, because you're actually shaping your personality into someone else. You're not saying that you are the expert, right? As you are. So that's where this conversation goes a little bit differently, I think, because, you know, it can be easy to sort of think we need to look like this other person who is an authority. We have to be more high vibe, all of these different things. But I actually think the more we can ground into our own brilliance, our work, lean all the way into our own personality traits, our own values, our own beliefs, all of those pieces, that's when we're going to be our most authoritative selves.

B (18:14)

I love that. That's something I actually personally struggle with. Like, I'll think that, oh, she's doing such a better job. Maybe I need to change my templates to look like her. Maybe my Instagram needs to look like her. Maybe I need to do what she's doing. But at the end of the day, like, I also think too, when I look back on my. On my followers, like, they didn't follow me because of that girl, they followed me because of me. So leaning into your true, like, authentic self can help you be more authoritative. I like that a lot. How can creators shift from sounding like one of many options to, hey, I'm the obvious choice. You need to go with me.

C (18:48)

Yes, I love this question, and part of it is what I just mentioned there, but actually a really, really helpful exercise that I would actually do here. I remember a few years ago when I first started in this online space, I remember everybody saying, be more authentic, be more you. And I struggle with that so much because it then makes you question, it makes you think, well, who am I? You know, what are these parts that people want to see? How do I share this? All of these questions cropped up for me, but what I actually recognized and what I teach my clients now, I talk about this all the time in my Telegram channel and on Instagram as well. But I talk about how actually showing up as you and being authentic. I think the best way to do this is to strip away anything that isn't you. I think that's a much easier way of doing it. So then we can start to, for example, read over the last few posts that you shared, read over the last few emails that you shared, Just read over it through this lens of does that actually sound like me? Is that something that I would actually say? That's going to be so gold for you. You can go through all of those pieces and see exactly what's you and what's not. And then you'll start to get that gauge, you'll start to see those pieces and then when you're writing, they will naturally start to come through.

B (20:05)

I like that. Can you give us a real world example? Like, have you ever worked with a client who said, hey, I fig figured out what was holding me back, I was doing this, this and this when it actually was not? That has nothing to do with me.

C (20:16)

Yeah. Ooh, that's a really good question. Yeah, I hear this quite a lot actually. There was somebody, yes, there was a client last week actually who said to me, I asked her, I read a piece of her content and I know her really well and there was some language that she used and I said like, oh, what exactly does that mean? And I can't remember exactly what it was off the top of my head, but I said like, that doesn't sound like you. And she said, yeah, actually it isn't. I don't know where that's come from. So it is like constantly bringing these pieces to light.

B (20:46)

Yes, that is so true. That's where chatgpt to like, it's so nice to have. But if you're always using chat GPT and you have not given chatbots any context on who you are, how you talk, it can totally just become disconnect. Disconnected. Example here too, by the way, we have a pediatric dentistry client and we were working on captions this. We had a social media manager that had just started. So like we were just kind of training her and she was putting these captions and they were just so robotic. And I'm like, listen, when these kids go to this pediatric dentist, they know she's not talking like that, she is acting like she's talking to a kid. And so I think it's so important when you're talking on camera, when you're writing these captions, you have to think about how do you talk to your real customers because they're going to feel that disconnect in that content. Yes.

C (21:37)

And that goes back actually to your question around how do you actually stand out as the person that they should hire that they should look at rather than just an option? And I really do believe that it is that. And also with the rise of AI like you Say, I think people are so aware of that. I know the head of Instagram posted about this the other day about how I think he said authenticity is scarce. It was a really, really interesting post and it makes total sense. And people are actually craving that. They actually want to see those specific ways in which you say, and like you say they feel when something's robotic.

B (22:12)

They know. And then especially all of us marketers, we know, we see so much, so many captions and stuff. I'm like, oh, that's chatgpt. Let's talk about buyer psychology for a little bit. Right before someone goes to buy, what questions do you think are still running through their head? Or like, what's what makes people hesitate at the last second before buying? And how can we.

C (22:39)

Yeah, I love this. So the areas that I mentioned earlier when I spoke about doubt around you, doubt around how they are going to create the result, get to where they want to be and doubt around whether it's a priority to them, it's really within those pieces. So if we think when someone's about to hit pay, when someone's about to sign up, when someone's about to send the dm, they want to feel certain in each of those areas. But when we drill down into that a little bit, if we think about the priority piece, so making someone certain, it's a priority I mentioned earlier, it's really to do with connecting the dots for people around the thing that they consciously value, you know, so not the regulation of hormones, but what that actually creates for them. The mood, the energy, all of those different pieces that creates, you know, a very tangible piece for them. So that's how we really create that certainty for them. They know, okay, this is going to help me to create this solution, you know, sorry, this is going to help me to overcome a problem or get to where I want to be. But then the other two pieces, that's where we can go a bit deeper. So when we think about creating certainty around why we are the people that someone should hire, there's a few things that I believe really help people to make that decision according to biopsychology. So the first is identity alignment. So that's really when someone actually reads our content, they can self identify with us, perhaps through our story, our journey, again, bringing forward these pieces that we would actually say in the way that we would say them. So it's this identity alignment that makes them certain? Yes, this person is, for example, where I want to be. This person gets me, you know, that understanding piece. And we hear that all the time, don't we? You need to make people feel understood, but they also want to see that mirrored in us. So the identity alignment piece is first. The next is embodiment. And this is a congruence piece again, that actually is a very subconscious thing that we do as we make these purchasing decisions. If something feels off, we're not going to buy. If we have a doubt around whether what someone's saying is what they're actually doing behind the scenes, for example, we feel that, you know, and we're not going to buy. So that embodiment. So I've got an example here. Let's say if you were someone who helped people to lose body fat through, like, managing their hormones and like, really kind of choosing a diet that supports that and an exercise regime that really helps them with their hormones, and the result is that they lose body fat. If I was selling that, but I was jumping on my story the other day, saying things like, I did this exercise in my luteal phase, and it was awful. I really regret doing it. If I was saying that every other week, and then I was saying, like, oh, I ate this food again, that just makes my hormones go all over the place. If I'm a buyer, I'm subconsciously having. I. I'm experiencing doubt. I'm thinking, okay, but that person's going to help me with this thing. And you know that they're not necessarily speaking with this congruence. That makes me certain.

B (25:51)

You almost have to. Yeah, I was going to say you almost have to embody, which is what you just said. You have to live, practice what you preach.

C (25:57)

Yes. Yeah. And that's a big piece. That's. I. I really believe that we. If we want to dissolve that by a hesitation there, we have to kind of hold ourselves to a standard of congruence. You know, be really conscious about. Okay. When we're sharing something. Again, is that how I would share it? But also, am I sharing it in the way that I would share this? So, for example, if I was speaking about how I don't like launching. I never launch all of these things, but I'm launching every few weeks. Like, big, big, heavy launch. Then again, that lack of congruence is going to be felt. So it's really looking at both the what and the how here.

B (26:33)

Right. I like that. Okay, let's. I'm gonna just. I want to give some real, real life examples here. So let's say. Let's say I started working with you and we had like, okay, Anna, give me the next 30 days, what do I need to do? I'm posting really good content. I'm getting a few, you know, DMs, I've made a few sales, but I want to turn it up. Like, what. How would you strategize with me for the next 30 days? Like, you know, high overview of this. You don't have to get super nitty gritty. But what would you tell me?

C (27:03)

Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing that I would do is really capture your brilliance. So I would, I would have these questions and, you know, this back and forth to really extract the pieces that your clients were obsessing, you know, over. So once we've extracted those pieces, we're then going to immediately connect the dots and around how that's going to matter to your ideal clients. So we're really going to pull out those threads that are going to increase the perceived value to them. So we're going to really make that a priority. So, for example, if you tell me I'm really good at maybe give me an example actually of something that you would say like, oh, my clients tell me I'm really good at.

B (27:41)

Oh, I mean, I'm really good at reels. Creating reels that, that get good traction and engagement. Storytelling on the reels.

C (27:50)

Storytelling on reels. Yeah, I love that. So we're going to extract that piece. Storytelling around reels. I'm going to dive into your process. I'm going to really look at how you actually teach your clients to do that and what specific result it actually creates. So, for example, it's not just about getting new eyes on your page. You're also doing it in a way that's going to align with who you are as a person. That's going to create resonance. It's going to really build an audience of the right people. So you see that how we're actually going a bit further than just getting page, you know, increasing visibility. So I'm going to really drill into those specific pieces and what we can do there as well, and this creates so much resonance, is we're going to look at what your ideal client doesn't have to do, be, or have. And that's going to be so appealing, you know. So, for example, if your specific real strategy doesn't involve and let's say dancing for the sake of, for the sake of this right now, if you're saying, and you don't have to dance, you don't have to do this, then that's going to really create that deep resonance and desire to do things the specific way that you teach. So we're going to start pulling out those pieces. So that's the brilliance we're really going to bring to the surface. We're going to make it matter to them by saying, you know, really positioning as a priority, showing them why the specific way will help them to get to where they want to be. So connecting it to that result, getting those new eyes, the visibility. And then the next thing we're going to do is reverse engineer the doubt that I spoke about earlier. So we're going to turn that doubt into certainty. So we're going to do that by what I just mentioned there, around positioning your brilliance and the specific way you help people to create a result. So that's immediately going to make them certain around why they should hire you. The next thing we're going to do is position it to a specific person and that's going to help the right person to see how they can create that result. So that's the ultimate piece of doubt that people have that stops them from buying. So it's that belief that, yes, I can go and create this result. So we're going to position it to a specific person who is ready to create that result. So we're going to look at the types of things that that person is doing right now. So let's say they're already trying to create reels. That's going to be a high intent buyer, right? The person who is already behind the scenes, they've been scratching their head for weeks trying to create these reels. They're trying to grow their brand. For example, if you. They're trying to make it as a creator. So the more we speak to the person who is actually taking those specific actions, you know, the more we are going to attract that specific person. So the next thing we're going to do is speak into how your process is going to help them to create results. So this isn't necessarily taking them through every single thing step by step, but it's creating buy in. You're articulating why your way actually creates results. So for example, when you know how to, let's say, create reels that strategically tell your story and position you as your next client's hire, something like that, that's when you will. And then we speak into the transformations you're constantly creating. Buy in for your way there. So that in a nutshell, this is what we do. So we actually look at those gaps, we expose those gaps, and then we turn that doubt into certainty by really drilling down into these Key areas, you. And pulling them forward into every single piece of content.

B (31:14)

That is so good. You really just stretch out. People think it's like step one, step two, but you stretch that step one to step two. Actually it's this. You're going to take it step one and step two is actually 10 steps. Yeah. Taking them through that. I love that. Okay. Is there a brand out there that does a really good job with their buyer psychology that someone could just, you know, if they want like a big brand or, or even a client that you've worked with?

C (31:41)

Yeah. This is a good question because I'm primarily in this kind of coaching, mentoring service based space. Who does this really well, this is a really good question. I might have to come back to that one.

B (31:53)

I know that's, that's a hard one because that's like someone asking me who does social media really good. There's so many choices. I just, I would love like maybe, you know, maybe we talk about this afterwards and we can always link it in the show notes. But I would love for someone to be able to say, okay, Anna told me that so and so does a really good job at this. Let me go see, you know, what they're doing. So that's something to look forward to. I know for me, like just getting started with stuff, seeing someone else do a really good job at it is something that I'll, I'll go study how they're, you know, how they're working, what they're doing.

C (32:26)

Yeah. I mean, no, not to plug my own, but I do practice what I preach in my content, so.

B (32:31)

Okay, there we go. What's your Instagram?

C (32:35)

So it's Anna Rumbold Co. So you'll see what I'm talking about in, in those pieces.

B (32:40)

There we go. That's, that's perfect. That's exact what we can do. I actually, I just started following Anna this morning and I was falling down the rabbit hole of your content and it's good, it speaks. Thank you. She has a very good way of articulating like hooks and stuff to where it speaks directly to you, which I guess is you practice what you preach. So that's really good stuff there. Thank you. You're welcome. So if people wanted to work with you or maybe got some Fun projects for 2026, tell us what's going on this year for you.

C (33:07)

Yeah, I have a really exciting year ahead. I am attending loads of events this year, really building out my mastermind. So this is a space that I've been running for a couple of Years. But I've really upgraded it recently as well. I'm a constant learner. You know, I'm obsessed with. I really geek out on the work that I do. So, you know, it really excites me to kind of bring these upgrades to life. And yeah, I'm just working with really incredible clients in this space. I am really obsessed as well with keeping my pulse on the market because I think that is so important. We can control the controllables, which is what I've been talking about today in terms of how we can actually put ourselves in the shoes of the ideal client and remove that doubt. But then we've also got these external pieces that we don't have control over. And that is the trend, the trending things, you know, what's actually shifting in the market. So I really have an obsession around studying that, you know, really, really studying that. So I bring that to a lot of my work as well. So that, that's something that I, you know, really bring into my clients this year as well in. In loads of different ways. But yeah, I mean, I have a telegram group where I also share a lot of these insights as well. So, you know, definitely go and give that telegram group a join and listen to some of those pieces around that as well.

B (34:27)

Yes, and follow her too. I love this. What can. If someone were listening to this today and you had to give them one piece of feedback or like the best tip going forward, what's something you would tell them? This.

C (34:39)

This is one of these. I will say it in a. This might sting like a bit of a hard truth, but I think it's.

B (34:46)

Yeah.

C (34:47)

So good. I think it. Always ask yourself why you're experiencing a certain result. Start with you, you know, because if, let's say you keep attracting people who aren't serious about their results, let's say, you know, they're not really that interested, it's not a priority to them. Then ask yourself, what is it about my content? What is it about my articulation? That's att those people.

B (35:12)

That's a good one. I'm going to be super honest and vulnerable with you guys right now. I have had a few leads in the last, you know, month or so where I, I get excited, but then I go and look and they're not the ideal client that I'm looking for. And this totally ties into what you're talking about, Anna, because I've. I've started to think, okay, what am I putting out there that's attracting that lead versus, you know, what I'M looking for. So I love that. Would you would. Is that something too? Like do you do one on one coaching with people to go through stuff like that or is it like your mastermind that you do more of that with?

C (35:50)

Yeah, both. Yeah, I work with private clients and mastermind clients, but yeah, it's that exact type thing. It's interesting actually. I think the positioning.

B (35:57)

Yes.

C (35:58)

Have such a big impact. Like I can see people with certain positioning, they shift it and the result is. Is always. It always blows my mind like how much actually with the positioning, the. It can change.

B (36:10)

I love that. I'm gonna go do my homework after this. All right, tell us how they can find you. Website, Instagram, all the things. Where do you prefer to be contacted?

C (36:19)

Yeah, so I mostly hang around on Instagram. So my Instagram is annarumbold.co. i have a free telegram channel, which I would say is a really good space to join because it's just my insights, these deeper pieces, you know, like what we've spoken about today. But I will really bring these thoughts and help you to apply them to your content in that channel. So I would definitely say go and find me over there as well.

B (36:41)

So I love that. Anna, thank you so much. This was a pleasure getting to talk with you. I can't wait to follow along on your journey and see everything that you do this year. And thank you so much for coming on. Call her creator.

C (36:51)

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

B (36:54)

Yay.