← Call Her Creator with Katelyn Rhoades
Call Her Creator with Katelyn Rhoades
131. How Women Are Leaving Corporate to Build Careers They Love Without Waiting for Permission
00:44:11
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- [00:01]
Sponsor/Host Announcer
This episode is sponsored by Brevo, Collective and Shopify. Brevo is your all in one marketing and CRM platform that helps you turn attention into actual revenue. From email marketing to automation to CRM tools, Brevo keeps your audience warm without you manually following up 24. Seven and Collective helps you handle the business side of being a creator or entrepreneur. From bookkeeping to taxes to compliance, they make sure you're structured correctly and and not leaving money on the table. And Shopify your commerce engine. It's how you actually sell the thing. Whether that's digital products, physical products, or services. Shopify gives you the tools to build, market, and scale your store all in one place. If you're serious about building a real business, not just posting content, these are the tools behind the scenes. Get started with brevo@brevo.com Creator save with collective@collect collective.com CHC and launch with Shopify. Shopify.com CHC
- [01:05]
Host - Caitlin
welcome back to Call Her Creator, the podcast for women who want bigger dreams, bigger careers, and a life that actually feels good to live. And today we're talking about something a lot of us have been feeling, but maybe we're not saying it out loud. There are so many smart, ambitious women who are quietly stepping away from that traditional corporate job and they're building their own influence, their own income, their own freedom online instead. And I am so, so excited. My guest today is Brianna Doe. She's CEO of Verbatim, creator, economy strategist, and she's someone who has truly seen both sides of this shift, like, so super up close. She's worked inside of corporate marketing room. She's worked with massive brands, she's worked with creators building empires from their phones. So for this episode, we're going to be pulling back that curtain on what modern professionalism really looks like. Like, not the stiff part or the perfectly curated LinkedIn version, but the real version. With two women who are ambitious. But we also crave peace and we want to build our own life, right? So before we get in today's episode, real quick, Stan is hosting their dare to post challenge right now, guys, and this is like the easiest way for you to really get into the groove of posting. And if you post for 30 days during this dare to post challenge, you could win a share of their 100k prize pool. So this is the time to show up, to post, to not give up. I'm doing the challenge myself with my Call her creator account, trying to get to that 10k followers over there. So I'm going to link the challenge in my show notes and we'll get registered for that asap. So. Hey friend, welcome back to Call Her Creator.
- [02:53]
Sponsor/Host Announcer
Powered by your all in one creator store, Stan. Stan is the easiest way for you to make money online. All of your courses, digital products and bookings are hosted within your link in bio. If you're ready to start your free trial, visit my show notes and click my affiliate link to get started today.
- [03:11]
Host - Caitlin
Brianna, welcome to the show.
- [03:13]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Thank you so much for having me. Also, that was the kindest intro and you made me sound so cool. So if you just follow around introducing me to people, that would be great.
- [03:22]
Host - Caitlin
You actually are really cool. So before we even started on here, I'm just already connecting with her. She's got. If you're watching this on YouTube, she's got a beautiful background. Let's see, what do we got back there? Vibe. Tell me about what you got back there. Actually, real quick.
- [03:35]
Guest - Brianna Doe
So I had my moment when we moved into our new house where I just wanted a gallery wall. And I went onto this site called Drool, which is questionable name, but they just had the coolest art I'd ever seen. And I really just wanted something that felt like me. I've always loved art. I've always loved museums. And so I ordered all of this stuff, I don't know if you can see it all, and just had my husband.
- [03:59]
Host - Caitlin
Oh my God, I love.
- [04:00]
Guest - Brianna Doe
It's wonderful.
- [04:03]
Host - Caitlin
Drool.
- [04:04]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, Drool Arts. Huge.
- [04:06]
Host - Caitlin
All right, all right.
- [04:07]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Drew Art, sponsor me.
- [04:09]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah, we just gave a plug. Okay. So for listeners that are meeting you for the first time, let's start by giving them like the quick version of your journey and how you end up at the intersection of like that corporate leadership role, but also creator culture. So like, take us back.
- [04:29]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah. So I would say it starts actually when I was in college, I studied film and media. Wanted to be a screenwriter. Yeah, I had it all planned out. I was going to move to New Zealand and just write movies, like write screenplays all the time. And I had a few friends my sophomore and junior year who all just dropped out, one up to the other to start non profits. And they had a, you know, they had a mission, they had a passion for it, but no idea what to do with marketing. So I taught myself everything I would need to know. I was already a photographer, so I was creating content for them. I taught myself like graphic design, the basics of paid advertising, things like that, and just fell in love with it completely. Decided to continue with my film degree. But, you know, go into marketing after college. And it's interesting, like, when you. I think, you know, we're expected to know what we want to do with our lives when we're freshman in college. By the time I graduated, I felt really insecure about the fact that I didn't have, like, a marketing internship under my belt. I didn't have, like, the traditional experience that it felt like so many of my new colleagues did. And so I spent quite a few years trying to figure out, okay, like, what do I want to specialize in? What do I enjoy about marketing? Like, what I want my career to look like, because it was a complete 180from, you know, from filmmaking. And I just never felt like I fully fit in. Like, I. I. Yeah, I just never felt like I really. None of the roles I picked ever really made sense for me. I was never really that happy. I struggled with this, like, cycle of burnout. I would get into a new job. It'd be great for, like, three to six months, and then the workload would increase, or people would get laid off, and I'd have more responsibilities, or I would just realize I was underpaid or whatever the case may be.
- [06:13]
Host - Caitlin
Yes.
- [06:14]
Guest - Brianna Doe
And I would just keep trying to chase whatever I thought success looked like. And it wasn't until a couple of years ago, I hired a business coach or career coach, because I had started a new role at a fintech company. Same thing. It was great for three months, and then I was miserable again. And I hired her to just help me understand, like, what my blind spots were like, what was not working. I'd been at it for over a decade. This cannot be what a career looks like. And she asked me a ton of questions and just said at the end, you know, from everything you're telling me, it doesn't sound like you want to work for somebody. It sounds like you want to work for yourself. So we can either continue down this path of helping you figure out how to manage up more effectively and, you know, all the things, or we can help you map out your corporate exit. And that brings us to 2026, and I am almost three years into my agency.
- [07:07]
Host - Caitlin
Wow. I have a similar story, too. I feel like, you know, with. Maybe it's our entrepreneurial spirit, but you just feel, you know, deep down like you're meant for more or there's something else out there that's gonna light you up. Because I. I kind of job hopped a little bit, and I would be there for a while, and I was really good at my jobs that I would do But I would get like, you. Either I was bored or I felt underpaid, or I just didn't like it anymore. And then you just like, okay, I'm done with this. Let me switch gears.
- [07:37]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yes, exactly. I was a job hopper through and through.
- [07:40]
Host - Caitlin
Okay. And yeah, are you a millennial too?
- [07:43]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I am. Are you?
- [07:45]
Host - Caitlin
Yes.
- [07:46]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I feel like it really is.
- [07:50]
Host - Caitlin
I love that for us and for anyone listening to that's in college. And gosh, I changed my career path so many times. I was supposed to be a nurse, and then I was going to be a teacher, and then I was going to be a news anchor, and now I own an agency. So we do the things until we figure out what we're gonna do.
- [08:04]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Exactly.
- [08:06]
Host - Caitlin
So, okay, you've worked with, like, major brands and online creators. What originally pulled you into the influencer marketing world? And like, what are you doing now?
- [08:17]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, so all of the roles that I took. So for context.
- [08:21]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah.
- [08:21]
Guest - Brianna Doe
You know, from the time I left college until the time I launched my business, I always had a full time job. And then I was also like freelancing or doing fractional work on the side. Same. So. Okay, you get me. And so every role that I took, it was always that job where your title is like marketing manager or head of marketing, but you have 97 hats that you wear each day. Yep. And one of those hats was always influencer marketing. And I loved it. I love all things like Internet culture, social creator economy, and I just really enjoyed, like, mapping out these campaigns and activations with different creators and different, like, you know, online personalities. This is back before it was cool. Like, it was a lot of bloggers and just like random people online. I enjoyed it so much. I thought it was just the best. And as I grew within my career, my role started to kind of narrow down to like influencer marketing or influencer adjacent. So like head of community, like head of social, head of marketing, things like that. Where you really get to partner both with creators and with brands. And so with verbatim, you know, we started as full service. I think, you know, when you start an agency. Yes. Ideally you're doing just what you want to do. But I also had rent to pay.
- [09:39]
Host - Caitlin
Yep.
- [09:39]
Guest - Brianna Doe
So you know how it is. So we started as full service and then eventually after about a year, niche down to influence marketing and speaker sourcing. So for conferences and, you know, brands that are putting on events, we'll find the speakers for those and coordinate all of that and negotiate. And then we do fractional operations for agencies as well.
- [09:58]
Host - Caitlin
Okay. I love that. So what?
- [10:00]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Wow.
- [10:01]
Host - Caitlin
So you're doing. You're okay. You're doing all the fun stuff.
- [10:04]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah. I really just built a career around the things I love.
- [10:08]
Host - Caitlin
That's what I'm thinking is like. And that's what I try to teach. That's exactly why I made Call Her Creator podcast too, is because I truly believe you can find something that you really love and you can create a career around it. And would you say that's what you did? How did. How did you do that? Like, for people that are in that spot that we were in where they're questioning if they really like their job or not, like, how do you decide? Okay, it's time to do my own thing.
- [10:33]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah. I think a big part of it, at least for me, was that I spent the first, however long it was, 10 or 12 years of my career just focusing on learning. Like, I. I could be deeply unhappy in this role, but I also knew it wasn't the right time to leave. So what can I learn from this? About. About managing expectations with C Suite execs or about how I talk to creators or whatever the case may be? Like, as it relates to your job. Yeah. But like, centering it around how you can grow within this and what you can take from this role with you to the next one was a huge game changer for me. And I think a lot of what I learned in those roles was about management of other people and of expectations. And that plays so much into influencer marketing. And. And so I think for anybody who's in that situation where they know what they love or they're at least figuring out what they don't like, those are the two most important things. Learn as much as you can and figure out what you enjoy. And I don't know if you can relate to this or if this resonates, but I did feel discouraged sometimes. I felt like I was only checking the box and knocking off things that I didn't like. I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was that I enjoyed. I didn't know at the beginning that it was influencer marketing. That took me a while. And so you just have to be open to new opportunities. You have to be open to trying different projects and trying different roles and kind of uncovering that. That part of your career.
- [11:55]
Host - Caitlin
I agree with you and I think something has light you up. At one point with me, like, my first job was leasing apartment homes, and I did not really like it, but there was some marketing aspects to it. Right. Like you got to market These apartment homes. But one day my boss put a book on my desk and it was like, likable media or something. Likable social media or something. It's right when social media started big and I read that book and I was like, oh, my God, I think this is my thing. And then I just immersed myself in it and I started taking on extra projects. And then they started, you know, taking me around to other, other apartment complexes owned by the company because I was really good at social media. So I do. I agree with you there. Like, you have to try out a lot of different things before you actually decide what it is that you want to do. Tell me about your book.
- [12:44]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Oh, my gosh, the book. So I wrote a book last year called the Unapologetic Professional, and it was a journey to write. You know, when I first landed the book deal, the proposal that got greenlit was not what the book eventually became. I think the original version of the book was like, how to build your business in the modern economy, which, yawn. First of all, I did not want to write that, but I started writing it. And what I was writing was more along the lines of like, what I was. What I'd learned over the past couple of years or the past decade. I started. Just. Essentially what I did was I started off talking about imposter syndrome and how you kind of internalize that, especially as women. But I think anybody in corporate America, you just start to internalize that. And how do you unpack that? How do you figure out which parts of it are systemic versus, you know, which parts of it can you actually control and start to mitigate? So we shift from that into, okay, now you've started unpacking imposter syndrome. How do you figure out what kind of career you want to build? How do you figure out what it is that you enjoy? And then at the end of the book, all right, you're building this career that you are passionate about. How do you untangle your sense of self worth from your job title and still find joy outside of your career?
- [14:04]
Host - Caitlin
What made you start writing that book?
- [14:08]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Wiley, the publisher, reached out August 2024. But I'd always been a writer. I've always wanted to write a book. I mean, ever since I was a kid, I've just written non stop. I figured I. I figured I would at some point. I just assumed I'd be in my 50s or my 60s, like after I'd had this really long, illustrious career.
- [14:29]
Host - Caitlin
Right.
- [14:30]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Speaking of imposter syndrome, I wasn't sure anybody would want to hear from me. I mean, I'm only like a decade and a half in, like, what could I possibly have to share? But it's. It's been really. It was impactful to write. I learned more about myself along the way, and it's been really cool to hear how it's impacting people, too.
- [14:46]
Host - Caitlin
So that opportunity from Wiley just kind of landed in your lap? Or were you, like, pitching like.
- [14:52]
Guest - Brianna Doe
It landed in my lap from LinkedIn. Wow. Yeah. So I write on LinkedIn. I. People have told me over the years to do video content, but I just kept sticking to writing. It's what I. And the acquisitions editor reached out and said, I've been following you for a while. Have you ever thought about writing a book? I thought it was a scam. So I ignored her for, like, a month, and then we finally hopped on a call and, you know, the rest is history.
- [15:17]
Host - Caitlin
Oh, that is so cool. And I. I so agree with that, too. You got to really lean into what makes you happy and what you're good at. So if video is not your thing and. But writing is, you got to lean into that. Let's talk about professionalism for a minute. So what's. Let's. Let's compare. So there was that 2016 trend that was going on. Everyone was sharing things in 2016. Now we're in 2026. So 10 years have gone by. What's the big differences between professionalism then and now?
- [15:47]
Guest - Brianna Doe
That's an amazing question. I'd be curious if you agree with this, but I think one of the biggest changes has been how we used to define it, which was more external versus how we define it now, which is internal. So 2016, it was. Are you wearing. Is your blazer ironed? You know, are you showing up in a way that makes me feel comfortable? Like, is your outfit appropriate? And obviously there are still, you know, like, stipulations around what appropriate is. But, like, is it the blazer? Are you wearing a T shirt to work? That's unprofessional. It was like how you. How you look more so than your work ethic, how you show up for your team, how you show up for your manager or for your direct reports. I think there's. I'm seeing a shift towards professionalism being defined by your integrity. And not so much if you wear a white tee to a meeting, which I think is. I think is really powerful. And I think, too. I mean, I'm covered in tattoos now. I wasn't in 2016. I've always wanted tattoos and a Big part of the reason why I didn't get them was because I, I was told from a very young age, I mean, my parents, it was very obvious I wanted tattoos. And I was told from a very young age, like, it's going to hurt your chances of getting a job. It's not professional, but people, less and less people are defining professionalism by how tattooed you are or aren't, which I think is really cool.
- [17:11]
Host - Caitlin
That is really cool. And that is so funny too. With that first job I was talking about, they actually ended up taking us to a specific store to buy specific clothes to wear in that role. And it's like, did those clothes make me a better worker? No, not really. Actually, no, they didn't at all. Like, now I'll wear like a baseball cap or something. And I do some of my best work when I'm not, you know, dolled up in makeup and my hair is done. So I think that's, that's, yeah, you're, you're, you're on to something there.
- [17:44]
Sponsor/Host Announcer
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- [20:02]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah, let's talk about ambition and burnout and balance. What, what would you say healthy ambition looks like? So you can talk about, you know, like there, there's a lot of women out there, high achieving women, they feel exhausted or they used to love what they were doing and now they don't. Like what, what do you think is healthy ambition versus that exhausted ambition?
- [20:26]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Ambition? I think a lot of it or a good chunk of it is seasonal. Like there are just going to be times in your career, in your life where you're, you're going to work more or harder or, you know, whatever adjective you want to throw in. But it's. There are seasons with verbatim, my agency, where we have 10 campaigns launching in the next month. We know we're going to have to work more. You plan for it and then you carve out time for rest. And I think that's where it, that's the line between healthy and unhealthy from what I've gathered is okay, how are you carving out time for rest, for self, care for the things that bring you joy and that light you up outside of work, even if it can't be right at this moment. And also to a great extent, how much are you defining yourself by your ambition or like your worth by your ambition. I think the more we tie our worth up into what we've accomplished or into our output, the more we start to see the unhealthy side of it. What do you think?
- [21:24]
Host - Caitlin
Did you used to do that or do you do that?
- [21:27]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, yeah, I used to do that a lot. I mean, I think it's that now I do too. I think it's hard. It's. I mean, we're, we're just taught to judge ourselves by our output. I think that is part of American culture too. Like we work a lot here, you know, and we. The hustle, or the Hustle culture is celebrated. And I, it was a bit of a shift. I'm curious if you experienced this. Like when I launched my own business not being tied to a company and just being like the founder of this random agency. I did have a bit of like an existential crisis with that. And then now, even now, sometimes I, I struggle with the founder title. Like, does it sound good enough? What does it mean? Like, do people think that's cool enough, but it doesn't matter?
- [22:18]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah, I don't struggle with titles, but what I do struggle with is I, I honestly thought starting my own business would mean like, you know, you get to do what you want, work when you want. But actually I work probably triple, thousand times more than. And I was working for somebody else. Yeah, it never turns off. I'm actually, I've told myself that I'm entering my soft girl era for work this year just because at the end of last year my health really started to decrease. And I know that there is a huge correlation between my health and how hard I have been working because like you said, we're taught, you know, it's what can you achieve is what's going to make, make or break who you are as a human. And then some of us too, with childhood issues, like maybe you had to do things to get attention from your parents and accomplish things. So that's something too, that I'm learning to work through. But I'm making it a huge priority now just to have my lower mornings. Like maybe there's a walk in there and I have my coffee before I just immediately check my email and text. So we have to make sure we're, we're doing and giving ourselves that time.
- [23:26]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I love that you mentioned that because I, as somebody who's also a high achiever and has been from childhood, like when I think about carving out time for rest or however you want to phrase it, I think of this huge overhaul of my entire life. But it doesn't have to be that. I mean, I, my therapist said once, just finding, just asking yourself every hour, like, what have I done for myself in the past 60 minutes? And it can be a walk. Right. It can be 10 minutes away from your screen. Whatever the case may be, like finding those moments are what will help ground you and also just keep you healthier. Yes. Especially in the long run.
- [24:02]
Host - Caitlin
Yes. That's a huge thing. I'm reading about longevity right now. What are signs that a woman is succeeding on the outside, but maybe she's struggling on the inside?
- [24:11]
Guest - Brianna Doe
For me.
- [24:12]
Host - Caitlin
Yep. Yeah. For you.
- [24:14]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Give us real girl, like maybe interest in everything else. Oh, yeah.
- [24:23]
Host - Caitlin
Yep, yep.
- [24:24]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's one of the most glaring signs. I'm sure there Are other signs, you know, before that that I'm just ignoring? Yeah, that's one of the big ones. Like, when I either feel like I cannot turn off work, like I'm physically incapable of it, and. Or I. I don't. I don't have the energy to do anything else. I don't really want to see my friends. I don't want to go anywhere because I think that's. That's the biggest sign for me. And then, I mean, maybe this one's really personal or, like, not. Maybe this is more niche, but I just get really irritable. Like, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not happy enough. Like, I'm. My wins are not enough at that point.
- [25:03]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah.
- [25:04]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Like, I can't keep up with whatever my own definition of success is, and I just get burnt out.
- [25:11]
Host - Caitlin
Oh, I was listening to a podcast this morning. Lori Harder. I just love her. She's one of my mentors. She was doing a podcast episode with her husband, Chris, and he was talking about just entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship has the ebbs and flows. So, like, 24 months, you'll be doing really, really well. But then like, six to 12 months, you go to a downfall, and then you'll do the next 18 months doing really well, and then a downfall. So it becomes a cycle. But if you can recognize that cycle and not get too hard on yourself, that. That really helps. And especially working in, like, influencer marketing, too, we start to really lean into that outside validation. And like, oh, if I post, you know, I'm gonna get these likes and these comments and drive traffic to my website and get more business. But gosh, Instagram specifically for me has changed so much that, like, I can't just post something and get a hundred likes like I used to, like, super fast. So I think kind of like the cycle there, too, with, like, the outside validation, we just really have to lean into ourselves and, like, what. What is important to you, Caitlin? What do you want? And then work our way from those goals versus outside validation from everybody else.
- [26:24]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Exactly. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier around. Like, what are you learning along the way in these roles if you work in house? A big part of that, too, is understanding how you define success for yourself, because otherwise you're going to let something else define it for you, whether it's, you know, your favorite creator on social, or your manager, whoever the case, whoever it is, you have to know what success looks like for you, because that'll be your North Star. And if you're not, if what you're doing is not moving you towards that goal in some capacity, then you probably need to take a step back. Right.
- [26:57]
Host - Caitlin
What are some things that you do personally as a founder, like to. To protect your own boundaries and to find your own happiness when you're feeling in those low spots.
- [27:07]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, I. There are a couple things I won't sacrifice. It's my sleep and it's my hobbies. And I. I think it's especially to your point, being a founder, I work more now than I have ever worked in my entire life. I was not expecting that. I love it because I love the work I'm doing, but if it starts cutting into my sleep, I'm not as. I'm not as good at what I do. And so I'm just a nicer person and a harder worker when I've had enough sleep. So that's really important to me. And then my hobbies, like, things that do not. That I cannot define as productive or like revenue generating. I really do my best to protect those. And it's random stuff. I mean, I bought a pizza oven so I can get better at making pizzas. It's like pottery classes. Yeah. It's just things that bring me joy and make me feel alive outside of work. And learning how to say no, I would say has also been a huge one. Like, even when it's something that sounds fun, do I have the capacity for this? Is it going to bring me some level of peace, some learnings, revenue, whatever, you know, however I want to define it, if it's not, then maybe it's not. Right now.
- [28:17]
Host - Caitlin
Yep. Oh, I love that. I love that. Especially even, like, clients that I've had forever, sometimes they'll ask a little extra of me, and I always try to be the yes girl, but I'm learning. Okay, Caitlin, we gotta run it through some steps before you say yes to this. And on your point, too, about doing things that make you happy. I have this client which really, she really inspired me, though I haven't taken action yet, is that she started singing lessons. And I'm like, what? Like, really dig back deep into your heart of when you were little, what were some things that you love to do? And I loved singing. I would be in all the talent shows when I was little and sing. I don't do it anymore because I'm like. I got scared because I took. You know, you stop doing something and then it gets scary. And now I don't do it anymore. But I want to start taking singing lessons again or learn how to play the piano or something that can just. Instead of, like, watching my trash TV that we talked about, started recording. We could do things like that that really play into our inner child to help with that, you know, burnout. Not feeling so burnout all the time. And like, you're always on.
- [29:22]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I love that. That's. I really love that. I'm learning Chinese right now, and it's so. It's making me think. Yeah, it's very difficult, but it's so fun. But it reminds me because I used to love learning languages when I was a kid, and so that explains why I'm enjoying it so much.
- [29:37]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah.
- [29:37]
Guest - Brianna Doe
To your point. Yeah, I think I was. I was doing some research on why time feels like it moves faster when we're adults. And what I've found so far is that a lot of it's because when we're younger, our brains are taking in so much new information, so we're experiencing, like, every moment. As adults, we do a lot of the same things every day. And so we're not processing new information or new experiences. So the time just moves quicker, quote, unquote. And so I think that speaks to what you're saying as well. Like when you are having these moments outside of work and prioritizing things that bring you joy, you can slow those moments down by going back to things that brought you joy when you were a kid and learning those. So I love that.
- [30:16]
Host - Caitlin
I love it too. I know. Let's. Let's challenge each other. Well, you're doing it already. I feel like you're learning. I need to go get my crap together.
- [30:23]
Guest - Brianna Doe
To be fair, I love my trash tv, so I support all of this.
- [30:28]
Host - Caitlin
It's something that's my mind completely off work.
- [30:31]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Exactly.
- [30:34]
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- [31:25]
Host - Caitlin
okay, I want to talk real quick about the creator economy just because we have someone here that does this. From your perspective, running verbatim, what makes a creative or a creator attractive to brands? Like, think about someone that is just getting into influencer marketing. What are some things they can do to really make themselves stand out and be attractive to working with?
- [31:48]
Guest - Brianna Doe
It's a great question. Two things immediately come to mind. One is, I'm gonna throw a buzzword out there, but I'll explain authenticity. And, you know, it's about having a point of view. It doesn't have to be a spicy point of view or a controversial one, but I want to be able to look at your content and get to know you a bit. Like, understand who you are as a person. Like, what matters to you within, you know, the parameters of what you share. Like, who are you a bit. Because that's also how people will connect with you as your audience grows. They want to know who you are, they want to know who they're following. And then also the quality of the engagement. You know, a big metric that we track is engagement rates as a whole. But I always tell our clients, just as important, or maybe even more importantly, is the quality of that engagement rate. Is a lot of, like, good posts love this content, or is it, like, thoughtful discourse, like, real conversations in the comments? Because that's, that's a sign that somebody's built more of a community and not just a following.
- [32:51]
Host - Caitlin
Oh, I love that. That's a really good pro tip. What about mistakes you see creators make? Like, if they're thinking about a brand partnership, what are pop mistakes they make?
- [33:02]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I would say the number one mistake is framing your impact around what you think is important, not what the brand is optimizing the campaign for. So it's always been interesting. Like, because I worked in influencer marketing for years before I started creating content on LinkedIn. And so seeing both sides of it now has been really interesting because I can see, Nope, both parties don't seem to understand what drives the other one.
- [33:27]
Host - Caitlin
Right.
- [33:27]
Guest - Brianna Doe
For marketers, like, I can like your content as a marketer, right? But if I can't justify this spend to my manager, the partnership's not going to happen. So instead of telling me, you know, like, how great your videos look, unless that's important to this campaign, tell me, like, about the audience that you've built. Share your demographics, share your engagement rate, the quality of the engagement, like, show me past sponsored content. Frame it within a. Like a frame it within parameters that the brand will care about because you're. That's going to help you win, it's going to help them win too.
- [34:00]
Host - Caitlin
I love that. Do you. Do you suggest people working through an agency to get more brand partnerships or working on their own? Like, what's the path of least resistance?
- [34:13]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Huh. So that's. Yeah, that's a great question. So, okay. Unfortunately, I do think. I don't think this should be the case, but I have found that brands see a level of credibility when a creator works with an agent or an agency. Like I said, I don't think that should be the case. And I. It actually doesn't impact my view of them at all if they have an agent or not.
- [34:33]
Host - Caitlin
Yeah.
- [34:33]
Guest - Brianna Doe
But I do see that happen quite a bit, I think, from the creator perspective. So I have an agent and I brought him in specifically because I. My number one priority is my business. Like, the partnerships are secondary and so operationally I could no longer sustain. I could no longer handle both on my own. So I think as a creator, if you're reaching a point where you either need help landing new partnerships, you need help with negotiation, or you need help just making it all work, like getting back to people faster, delivering higher quality content because you have less on your plate, like, that's when I would consider bringing on an agency.
- [35:10]
Host - Caitlin
Do they need to have a certain amount of followers?
- [35:13]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I think that's going to depend on the agent or the agency. Like some and it depends on their specialty. Like some specialize in micro influencers. Some, like, follower count doesn't matter as much. It's the type of content you create, I would say. I mean, honestly though, I don't know if I would advise anybody to get an agent until they're at least at like 10k. Mainly because I think most agents are going to charge you a monthly fee and then a commission on top. So you need to be able to justify the spend.
- [35:44]
Host - Caitlin
In my opinion, for someone who's stuck in a corporate job right now, but they really want to be a creator, what would you give them as far as steps go? Like, I know we talked about trying new things and getting good at it, but like, if they're like, all right, 2026 is my year, how do I. How do I leave corporate and really do this full time? What would you say to them?
- [36:04]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I would say where I see most people get stuck in this journey is in overthinking and an analysis paralysis. So if you spend the next three months figuring out what kind of content you want to create, those are three months that you could have just been testing and growing. So as cliche as it is, like, just start. You don't need to know exactly who you want to be online yet. You don't need to have your next six months of content planned out. Like, just start getting comfortable putting your voice out there and putting your thoughts out there. That's what I did with LinkedIn. I thought I was going to talk about marketing all the time. I think I've talked about it like four times and I just talk about my career and what I'm learning and now entrepreneurship. So just keep learning as you're going, but, like, just get out there and start creating content and seeing what feels right.
- [36:52]
Host - Caitlin
How many times a week do you post on LinkedIn? And like, for these new creators, how many times should they be posting per week?
- [36:58]
Guest - Brianna Doe
It's going to depend on your platform. I would say for Instagram, aim for no less than three to four times a week. The algorithm is constantly shifting. I know reels are really hot right now and I guess carousels to an extent. The thing is, it's not necessarily about being the one that's posting the most. It's about being the one who's posting consistently. So build up a cadence that's sustainable for you and then you can scale it if you need to. But I would aim for three to four on Instagram, TikTok. I mean, I think, like, every day is maybe ideal or at least five days a week and that or four. And then for LinkedIn, I would aim for three times a week. I post three or four times a week. Like, yeah, because business, my business will always take priority and I'm not good at batch creating content.
- [37:46]
Host - Caitlin
Right.
- [37:47]
Guest - Brianna Doe
So sometimes it's two times a week, sometimes it's zero, sometimes it's four or five. But I will say there's also going to come a point where you've built up this audience that really likes your content and is just engaging with it. You'll have this flywheel built where you don't have to show up every day. You can still be part of conversations.
- [38:07]
Host - Caitlin
I agree with you. Telling people to just start, start doing it, start building that following, start figuring out where you want to go with it, who you want to target. And then I always tell people too, like, I didn't just quit my corporate job without, you know, I had a safe place. Like, I had a savings saved up. My husband was like, okay, you can do this for the next blah, blah, blah, and we're covered. Like, would you tell people to have like a backup plan before they just jump ship? Or like, when do you go for It.
- [38:37]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I mean, personally, I'm with you. Like, I would. I. I would want some. Some kind of safety nest built up. It's all going to depend on your situation. But if you have something running in the background that's, you know, fueling your income, you're not going to feel that pressure to accept brand partnerships that aren't a fit or to turn it into another job where you just have to create content every day. I think if you can have something else, that would be great. And I think that's why it's so important to diversify your income, too. Um, when I launched Verbatim, I had it all planned out. I built up multiple streams of income. I was good. And then I got laid off.
- [39:19]
Host - Caitlin
Wait, what were your multiple streams of income?
- [39:22]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Brand partnerships was a big one. Um, I was doing ghostwriting and some guest writing, and then, like, some speaking engagements. Very few, but the bulk of it was brand partnerships.
- [39:33]
Host - Caitlin
Okay.
- [39:33]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Um, I got laid off two weeks before I was gonna put in my notice. And that would have been horrible, would have been horrible if I was not already prepared to leave. And so the more you can build up, like, that foundation for yourself, you'll just be in a more comfortable spot when you launch.
- [39:49]
Host - Caitlin
Okay, so we're safe girls over here.
- [39:51]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I did not want that stress. That just sounds.
- [39:56]
Host - Caitlin
No, yeah, I'm already. My adrenals need the break. Fun questions for us before we wrap up. What's a belief you used to have about success that you no longer believe?
- [40:09]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I used to think that I could not consider myself successful until I specifically hit the CMO title. I was, like, gunning for cmo. I now define success by the level of joy and contentment I feel in my life while still having enough money to sustain my life and also do the things that, like, bring me peace.
- [40:31]
Host - Caitlin
Same like the. The podcast episode I just did last week was me talking about. I was. On paper, everything looked amazing. Like, we were getting so many agency clients, speaking engagements, making a crap ton of money. But on the inside, I was a mad woman who was like, I missed my son running through home plate because I was posting a reel. And so, like, that was my breaking point. For me to be like, okay, actually, this is not success for me. This is actually just stress. So I've reevaluated what success looks like for me. And I agree with you. Like, success, where I feel internally happy, I'm calm, I'm still getting to do what I love to do, but I'm not, like, just hustle, hustle. Hustle all the time. That can't be the way we live.
- [41:17]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Exactly. For me, it's just. And sounds like for you, it's just not sustainable. And I know for some people, I think it also depends on the season of life you're in. Like, maybe that is your definition for the next five, six years, and that's fine. Like, work towards that and know what your exit plan is and know what you're like, what you're trying to build.
- [41:36]
Host - Caitlin
What's. What's a hot take you have about the creator industry right now?
- [41:40]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I would say people, a lot of B2B marketers say that influencer marketing doesn't work. My hot take is that most of them haven't tried it or have not tried it for long enough.
- [41:51]
Host - Caitlin
Oh, they're scared. Oh, yeah, girl. Call them out. What's one piece of bad career advice you wish would disappear? Hmm, That's a hard one.
- [42:03]
Guest - Brianna Doe
That is a hard one. Always be the easiest person on the team to work with. I think it lacks nuance. Like, at the heart of it, there's something. There's. There are good things in there. Like, yeah, don't be annoying, don't be mean. Like, be a kind person. But there's also an element in there, in my opinion, that encourages people to not speak up if there's something wrong with their environment. Like, that's not being easy to work with. Like, you're causing strife or, you know, you're just messing things up. And I do think it's important to set boundaries and work in a place that makes you feel safe psychologically. So be a kind, compassionate person and be somebody who shows up for your team. Don't subscribe to the idea that you have to be, like, the easiest person to work with.
- [42:46]
Host - Caitlin
I love that. Called self betrayal, guys. That's another thing I was just. Yeah, I was just talking about. There's like self loyalty and self betrayal. And when you're always doing stuff for others just to make them feel comfortable, you're betraying your own self. So look that up later.
- [43:00]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Interesting that.
- [43:02]
Host - Caitlin
It was very good. I am in my, I'm telling you, my soft girl era. I'm like, super duper into self help right now. So I'll teach you all.
- [43:09]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I love it. I love it.
- [43:12]
Host - Caitlin
All right, so tell us about where people can connect with you. Can they work with you? Like, tell us all the things, exciting projects you have coming up. What's all going on in your life.
- [43:20]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Yeah, it's an exciting year. So for verbatim, all things agency. If you're looking for influencer marketing support or speaker sourcing, you can go to we areverbatum.com I basically live on LinkedIn at this point, so you can find my content there. And then I just launched my third newsletter and relaunched my podcast called Stop the Scroll. And you can find that@brianado.substack.com all right,
- [43:46]
Host - Caitlin
I'm gonna also reach out to you for verbatim, because you're over here talking about how, like, I don't have the time right now to respond fast enough or, like, scout out new opportunities. So I'd love to talk with you over there, but this was.
- [43:59]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I have some referrals for you.
- [44:00]
Host - Caitlin
Okay, we're gonna talk then. But it was really nice to. To talk with you and know that I'm not alone. Like, if you're out there listening and you're an entrepreneur or you're just an ambitious woman who's working your tutti off and you're just tired, like, take time for yourself. Rest and know that you are important, too. Like, what's your last piece of advice for us, man?
- [44:20]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I think that would be it. Like, it's. You might feel like you are betraying yourself or not working hard enough, not being productive enough when you carve out time for rest and time with your family and time with your loved ones. But careers are about longevity, not about sprints. And so you need to build something that's enjoyable but also sustainable, and that's. Rest is a huge part of that.
- [44:39]
Host - Caitlin
I love that. I loved it. I love you. You're amazing.
- [44:42]
Guest - Brianna Doe
I love amazing.
- [44:43]
Host - Caitlin
Yes. If you guys want to reach out to Brianna, you can. I'm gonna link her stuff in the show notes, obviously, but we'd love for you guys to connect, get her on LinkedIn, and we will. We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for tuning in.
- [44:58]
Guest - Brianna Doe
Thank you for having me.