Caitlin (6:02)

Oh, I like that. Okay, Kristen, introduce who you are. I mean we'll be able to dive right into that conversation.

Kristin (6:09)

Yeah, we'll dig right into the, to the juicy stuff. So yeah, I'm Kristen and I have had my own business for about 15 years. I started out in wedding video and photography and then quickly shifted into. Because I wanted something more sustained where there was like a long term relationship. And so I, I started working with and was doing education in marketing and communications for, for businesses, for entrepreneurs. I've always been an entrepreneur at heart. Like, like it burns deeply in my soul. And what I found that I loved was working alongside other entrepreneurs, small business owners, and helping them to bring their ideas to life and helping them communicate their mission and their vision to the people that they were trying to serve. Because people have such good ide value to give, but they don't always know how to communicate that to reach the right people. That's like my, like I love doing that. And so I spent then 10 years working with businesses, entrepreneurs in my own area, sitting face to face with them, you know, in, in other places in other states and working virtually with them. And then I ended up similar to what Sheila said last year. And through this time, like I had studied like Jenna Kutcher and some of those big name Amy Porterfield, some of those big name people who have created courses and digital products and was always so intrigued but I was always so busy like with, you know, with clients and stuff that I never like took the, took the opportunity to, to sit down, to pause and like create my own stuff. But I, I saw how it all worked together. Like I loved it and I was like, someday I'm gonna, I'm gonna create my own thing and I'm gonna build this because I see how like, it can give more time, freedom and all of that stuff for people who are in business by teaching the masses, you know, different things or by working like more on strategy, but it's just being done in a different way. And so I actually happened to one of my largest clients that I, that I had offered me a full time corporate job as VP of marketing. So I actually did that. And while I had that job, I came across and was researching and doing stuff. I was, I was looking online and came across this, this concept of master resell rights. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is wild. I totally saw how like, things connected. I saw how it worked. I saw how. And I'm like, this could be really cool. And also I thought like, man, if some of my past clients like, had this as a resource and a tool because it does like, most of the courses teach really good, like beginner skills of building a business. And just like some of the logistics and, and all of that stuff behind it, they, it teaches the beginner skills of building a business. And so I'm like, okay, I see how this works. So while I was working 60 plus hours a week at my corporate job, I was moonlighting and like researching, researching this, you know, master resell. Right Stuff. And I was like, okay, I'm going to just give this a try and see how it works again with marketing and business experience in the background. Like, I also started making five figures, like very quickly right out the gate because it's, it's a lot about sales conversations, building relationships and that sort of thing. And then Sheila and I met in this space because of being kind of in the same space. And so we started talking and we kept getting some of the same conversations and some of the same people in our DMs, like, hey, I'm stuck here. Can you help? And it was the same questions. And so we started talking. We were like, there should be a course that's even more simplified, beginner friendly, that sort of thing to fill in some of these places. Places. And we were like, there should be a course. And then it was a couple weeks later, we were like, maybe we should make the course. And so we, we did. We, we were like, all right, we're going to make this course. And so we ended up creating a course that had master resell rights attached to it that ended up going viral pretty quickly. And like, I mean, millions in revenue across the whole community in a very short period of time. Like, it was millions of revenue.

Sheila (10:19)

It was like One and a half million in the first week. Like, we just thought six.

Kristin (10:26)

Yeah.

Sheila (10:27)

Yeah. We didn't. We didn't think we were going to. We didn't set out to create a course like Kristen said. We. We saw a need, and we wanted to find a way to serve people and help people, because that's just our heart. And we're like. For weeks, we were like, man, if someone would just make this course, we would sell it. And then it didn't even hit us. We're like, maybe we should make it. And then we just felt aligned because we're like, well, now we have something that we feel we can share, and it's filling in these gaps. Right? We can share it personally. So when other people started sharing it, it kind of. Kind of shocked us. Honestly, we were not expecting that at all.

Caitlin (11:10)

That's. That's insane. Also, y'all weren't looking to, like, make more money. You truly came into it with a heart. Like, hey, we're getting all these dms together. Like. Like, let's put something together. What it. What was that called? What was your course called?

Kristin (11:25)

Simply passive. So it was called. Yes.

Caitlin (11:29)

Okay. Wow. I didn't know that you guys freaking made that course. Okay, I'm. I'm a great interviewer, guys. I know you are. Like, Caitlin, did you not do. I knew y'all were involved, but I didn't know you guys were the makers.

Kristin (11:48)

Yes, yes, we were.

Caitlin (11:50)

Holy crap. So you guys really do know. Like, I'm like, okay, they're great. I know that they know the inner workings of all of this stuff, but holy crap. So y'all got the real tea on all of this, then?

Sheila (12:02)

Yes, yes, we do.

Kristin (12:04)

Yes, we do. From, like, from inside, outside, upside down. Yes, yes, absolutely, we do.

Caitlin (12:10)

Wow, guys. Wow, wow, wow. Okay, okay, okay. Let's back this up for a second. So, okay, so is this where you would say, like, you kind of started seeing flaws in the system whenever these people were. Were messaging you? Is that where you're like, okay, we have a need. Walk me through that.

Kristin (12:25)

So, okay, I have some things. I know Sheila. I know Sheila will say. So obviously, at the time last year, last summer is kind of when the whole concept of courses with master resell. Right. Started to. Started to escalate and blow up. And so what we saw was like, okay, all of these people are having the same questions over and over again. And the whole idea of, like. Of serving and coming up with something is how can we solve a problem for. For the. For the people? And once you have the same questions being asked over and over again. It's kind of like, okay, there needs to be something that solves this problem. Otherwise we're going to keep having the same conversations over and over again. So we created the course, we attached master resell rights to it because we knew that that business model at the time was. Was doing really. Was doing really well. Like we. And, and you know, there's a little bit of like, okay, after we got into it and we basically, once we launched the course and all of that stuff because of the model of it, because people, anyone can sell it for 100% profit. They're supposed to take responsibility for their own business and their own customers. But that's not what ended up happening. And so we ended up spending a lot of time in our DMs supporting a community of other people's customers. And that's where we shifted our focus to. And so we weren't even spending a lot of time marketing and selling. We weren't spending any time that we created.

Caitlin (13:54)

Yes, because extra for doing this that you were support.

Kristin (14:01)

We were doing it for free. Yes, we were doing it for free because we were supporting the overall, you know, the overall community because we genuinely wanted to help people. We. We really did. And so the community ended up over the course of a couple months, growing to about 20,000 people very quickly. But it was like our own customers that we had mixed in there. But it was a lot of other people's customers that were in there and we were supporting. We were doing weekly trainings and showing up for them and wanting to serve and wanting to help. And that's when we started to see behind the curtain of the master resell rights model. I do have to say this. There is great education in many of the courses with master resell rights. Like there really is. So it's not the education that's the issue, but it's the stuff behind the scenes and the stuff that. That came along with it that is unseen and unknown. Unless you have created a viral master resell rights course. Most people don't know this or they like, they understand it. They see it because they've talked to creators and they see how this. So, so that's where once we got into. Into it a couple of months, we started to see like, oh my gosh, this is like here, here are some, some issues behind the scenes. And then we kind of went from there.

Sheila (15:24)

I think it also really. We noticed a marketing piece. It wasn't just what we were experiencing on the inside ourselves. Like Basically running a community. So it went from us that first night of launching, we're like, yay, we have a course that we get to share that we made. How cool is this? And that night, we're literally, like, just looking at our sales that we've made and the number of people. And I'm like, this. The math's not adding up. Like, there's more people than there are sales that we've made. And we realized we're like, oh, my gosh, people. Other people are selling the course. And it went from that to like, one and a half million in sales in the first week. Like, boom. Like, we. We weren't sleep. It was insane. We were having to set up infrastructure that we were not planning on needing. Like, it was just wild. So it did completely become about serving that community. We had hundreds of DMS on Instagram a day. Because as the course creators, even though someone didn't buy from us, they came to us, right, for support and for help. And so we poured in our personal income. We had to hire people to, you know, so we're paying to host this platform, and we're hiring people to come and help us manage this community of what became 20,000 people. And it was. It was wild. It was. It was wild. And people started to get their. You know, there. There's the problem with the space is that the way that the marketing. It started. The marketing started to get messy. And when I say that, I mean, people were marketing it as more than an education that you can use as a launchpad. It started turning into, like a get rich quick overnight. This is easy work, one to two hours a day. I had my first month, I made $10,000. But they don't share that they had a lot of success in network marketing. They're saying that it's because they have their messaging down or whatever, right? Yes.

Caitlin (17:40)

That's all. As a consumer, that's all I was reading. And I'm not gonna lie, like, I was intrigued by it and I wanted to buy it. But as a social media manager who's, you know, I've been working in the space too, it was like, oh, if I get that, that's gonna take all my credibility away. Because so many people, it was saturated at the point where I didn't want to dive anymore. Now, do I regret? Because sometimes I think, wow, you guys telling me millions. Like, I kind of regret that I didn't jump on it last summer when it. When it came to fruition. But, like, what were. I know one of my questions I had for you guys, what were some of the false promises, which is you're we're kind of talking about and pyramid like practices that stood out to you guys with that MRR model?

Kristin (18:26)

Oh yeah. So that's a really great question because from the outside looking in, it really was. Not everybody was marketing poorly. But then it got in the hands of people that made it seem like a make money online system or a get rich quick scheme sort of thing. And it all had to do with the way that it was messaged. Because if you really talk about how it would solve a problem for somebody, which is the foundation of good messaging and marketing, that will never, ever, ever change. If people actually just focused on the problems that it was helping to solve and what it could potentially do for somebody. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what marketing is. But what was happening is that there were these again, like income claims, false real whatever that weren't backed up with where that even came from, how that even did what work actually was put into it. And then because so many people were selling the same course, it was like unless you had an edge and had again experience in some way shape or form, whether it was branding or business or marketing or sales or anything along those lines, it was very unlikely that you were going to, to succeed. Like yes, you could make a, you could make a few sales and some people like stepped in, they learned, they applied the skills and then they were able to as a true beginner, like step in and start to do things. But those were breakthrough case. Those are like unicorn, unicorn situations where it's, it was not like across the board. And so that's what happened is really like it was the messaging and marketing from a group of people, not everybody was doing this, but from a group of people that then made the whole space, it was saturated in the way that everybody seemed to be copying and pasting each other. So it just looked like a bunch of robots that were saying the same things over and over and over again. And when I stepped into this space, even with, and I like to say this because it goes to show how messed up we can get in our minds as humans when we see stuff. Even with somebody with 10 years of solid education in marketing and business, I questioned is this the way that I have to market this to in order to sell? And I'm like, absolutely not. Like I had to work through it, but I'm like somebody that's just stepping in brand new with no like business, education, marketing, anything, they're gonna think like I'm just gonna copy and paste this person over here. That's how I'm gonna build my brand. That's how I'm gonna make $10,000 tomorrow. Like, that's. That's how it was. It was being sold versus, like, building and having the tools to learn how to build a sustainable business over time. Because if people came in with the idea, like, if I can build a sustainable business, I can learn everything that I want to learn. I can keep learning. I can build this versus a. You're going to install this system, set up this system, and then all of a sudden you're going to start making money. I think that people's minds would be in a totally different place today. I really do.

Sheila (21:37)

Yeah.

Caitlin (21:37)

This is nuts. Also, you said. You said those true beginners that came in that actually did have really great success were actually the unicorns as a consumer. I thought. I literally thought anyone who jumped in was making all this money immediately. But you're saying it was definitely harder than what it looked like.

Kristin (21:58)

Yeah, well, absolutely.

Sheila (22:00)

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what you see, right? You see. See that kind of marketing. But us having. Being on the inside, having created courses, having created a course. We had DMS and a community filled with people who were struggling, filled with people who could not. They just felt like they were banging their head against the wall. They felt stuck. They feel like they couldn't compete with somebody with experience, you know, and they didn't even realize that person had experience. Because that's. There's not a lot of transparency for. For people who are having success because of the experience that they're coming into it with. Like, that transparency is missing, right? Because you don't. Again, it's just. It's sales. It's sales, right? It's just sales. I don't fault anybody for marketing that way, but it just. You ended up having a lot of people who were frustrated. There was a lot of emotion because they came into this in a place of need, right? They needed to generate income. Some. A lot of people. Because I've been in that place and. And you. Maybe you. You invest in something and it's like what you were gonna use for groceries that week. And so you see the other side.

Caitlin (23:22)

Of it, I bet. 99 woman. Yeah.

Kristin (23:25)

Yeah.

Caitlin (23:26)

99 of these women come into this as their last. Like, this is my last chance to do xyz.

Sheila (23:32)

Yeah.

Kristin (23:33)

Yeah.

Sheila (23:33)

So they're very vulnerable.

Caitlin (23:35)

And then there was those people out there who were marketing it in a sleazy way that they should not have done?

Sheila (23:40)

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So we saw. We saw people feeling. They were. Just felt defeated. They. They had lost their hope. They felt defeated. They're. They're now coming to us. And not just people who purchased Simply Passive, but people who have purchased other courses in this space. They're coming to us. Like, I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. I can't figure this out. And we're having conversations with them, and we're recognizing you shouldn't really be in the wealth niche. And when I say that, I mean, like, you shouldn't be teaching other people how to make money online. Like, the three of us, that lights us up. We love that, right? It's. It's what we are here to do, and that is very clear to us, and it has been for a long time. But for somebody who doesn't have experience in that to come in and you just have to, like, if I were to try to teach people how to do technical things, oh, my gosh, I would feel so uncomfortable. I would not be successful. There is no way. Because that's not what lights me up. It is not my jam. I. I would want to make money, sure. But there's a difference between wanting to make money online and teaching other people how to make money online. And so we saw this gap again.

Caitlin (24:54)

Okay, so is that how the Pivot project got started? Is that what brought you guys into this new thing?

Kristin (25:02)

Yeah, so we gotta back up a little bit, because after we launched Simply Passive, which would have been in the fall of 2023, we again started to see some different areas where people were needing help. And we wanted to help to solve those problem, to put an even greater emphasis on people leaning into their own strengths, building their own brand. And so we had a launch in. At the very end of February of this year that we brought to the table. And the launch ended up. It happened, and then there was a big explosion. And let me tell you, Let me tell you what happened behind the scenes, because there was a lot of stuff. We launched something that was another product that, like, for people to be able to invest in. Completely optional. Completely optional. We ended up getting a lot of backlash because what had happened inside of the master resell rights space was that there were a lot of things on other master resell rights courses that were kind of like copied and pasted across the board. Like, this is what this means. This is how you include this. No upsells, no upgrades, that sort of thing. And so there were some logistical things that. Because we were the Creators of a course inside of the master resell rights space. They were copied and pasted onto us. Now, I do have to say, could there have been some business logistical things that we did differently? Absolutely, absolutely. But we ended up getting death threats, hate emails, all kinds of things around this because there were people that were upset that we were selling something that was outside. And it wasn't just included in the course. It wasn't just part of what we had already launched. And then there was a lot of stuff. We made the decision then to stop offering a free community that we had been supporting for months of people that weren't our own customers. We were, we were accused of ghosting this community, which we did not. We did not ghost. This was an optional thing that we decided to offer for free to support other people's customers. And we decided to like, hey, we want to put the responsibility on the people in this community. Like, if you want to build a sustainable brand and business, like, we encourage you to start your own communities. And if you don't feel ready to do that yet, that's, that's totally fine, like, keep learning. And we encourage you to do that because, you know, like, building your own sustainable brand is going to happen so much better. And like, you'll be able to do something if, if it's your own community. And so we encourage people to do that. And people accused us of, like, of ghosting the community, which we, we didn't do. And we did it optionally to begin with anyways, supporting other people's customers, paying thousands of dollars to support it. And these are some of the things that happened behind the scenes. Because what most people don't understand is that we were handling most of the technical things. Like if people had questions about stuff, people would, like Sheila said earlier, people would reach out to us and ask us questions or send our team emails to get in and then they would get off Scotch free because they're not necessarily. And again, not everybody was like this. There were some people that were great. This is wild. It's wild. I know there were some people that were great in this space that were doing it, taking responsibility for their own business. But as soon as we tried to shift into a different model and do something that was focused on and because of the business logistics around it, totally understand, like, hey, if you're not ready to do that is totally optional. But because there was a big group of people that, that they had some expectations, they accused us of lying about things which, like, again, because of the way that other people marketed Things they thought that we said them, we didn't. And so there was just a lot of chaos and confusion, and it turned into a mess. And so, you know, we came back to the drawing board and we were like, okay, that went differently than we were expecting it to go. But we're both. We both, like, love people and love entrepreneurs and love serving. And so we're like, how can we do this in the best way possible to help transition those people who are willing to put in the work, who want to do something and want to share, like, the value that they have, the wisdom that they have and need to get out of the wealth niche box or out of the reselling other people's courses. That was really our heart and mission the whole time. And because of being MRR course creators and because of a lot of misunderstandings that unfortunately, like, I wish that I could, like, sit face to face and be like, hey, guys, like, this was not the intention at all. Like. Like, we wanted to. We wanted to create something to serve, but because of business logistics and some things around that, like, it turned into mass chaos. And so that's where we sat on for a few months and realized, like, the Pivot Project is what's needed. Because we weren't the only ones bringing people into the Master resell. Right space. There's lots of other courses, and there are a lot of people that are in that in between space right now that are like, I would do this. I would put the work in. I'm like, I know that I have value to give, but I don't know what steps to take next. And that's what the Pivot Project is aimed to do in a live workshop setting where we're, like, digging into that. Like, how do you figure out what you're good at and how do you figure out how to monetize that and how to create a product around that and that, like, that's. That's where that was born. And I'm sure Sheila has some extra things to say, too, around. Around this subject. There's. There's a lot.

Caitlin (30:50)

But I'm so mind blown right now. It's everything that y'all are saying, the fact that you put in all of this work to support these people for free and then this ends up happening in death threats is beyond me. But social media is wild, so I don't know why it surprises me, but it is wild.

Sheila (31:06)

But I think it's. Yeah, you know, it's also the space. It's just. It's what the space created and it's kind of ironic because a lot of MRR course creators, the. The original MRR course creators have since shifted out of mrr. Their course now does not have that attached. And other course creators have also, you know, stopped hosting community calls and things like that. We took a lot of heat because I think we were probably the first people to step out and do something different. That was outside of the box of, like Kristen said, you know, we're kind of in a box of. There was a lot of expectation around, like, this is what I expect from you. Like, you created this course and this is the expectation. You want to offer it to me in Spanish, like, that should be included. You want to launch something else and create completely separate courses that Kristen and I spent months building. You want to offer that? Like, okay, it needs to be included. You. How dare you charge extra. Right? And we've also marketed it to this community, the simply passive community that we were just, I mean, literally 10 to 12 hours a day, her and I were pouring into messaging with people. That's literally all we did. We didn't even market our own course hardly. We had a team of five women that we paid out of our own pocket to, like, serve this community and to help us moderate it and like, to. So when we launched this new offer, we launched it to the community, right? It's our community. We made this course. That's what we're feeling and thinking in our head, and that's where our hearts were every single day. So there was upset over that. Like, how dare you? This isn't your community. Like, I sold this course to someone. It was just. So it got a little mucky. And when we. We actually didn't like, okay, peace out, community. And there were a lot of people who loved what we launched and purchased it very happily. But it was kind of just like her and I were like, this isn't sustainable anymore. We were spending five figures a month between the two of us out of our family's income to. To maintain it and just putting so much time and energy, helping other people's customers, essentially, and helping people find their way. And we. We were like, we need to have some boundaries. Like, we've gotta shift it. We can't allow people to just post in there. Like, we've got to downsize this a little bit. And so we did. And then we both stepped back and we both stepped out of the MRR space we had already. We created and launched what we did at that time because, like she said, we saw a need for people to create their own products even outside of the wealth niche. And that's what we were teaching and what we offered. But we definitely, we both decided to step out of the MRR space because it was just, we were like, this is too much. Like it's gotten completely out of control. It's. And we saw a lot of other leaders in this space doing the same thing at the same time, actually. But we decided, we were like, we're not done. There are still. We just were like, there's so many people who still were messaging us even after we stepped out of it. I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. I'm banging my head against the wall. I need for this to work. And so we're like, okay, what if we create a live experience versus another course so they're not buying another course and we make a live experience and we walk them through A to Z step by step. And we have office hours and support and we bring in all these guest speakers, like these amazing people who are experts in their space and they're, they're not in the MRR world. Right? A lot of them. And we just make it this big amazing thing where for 25 bucks a week, essentially it's $147. We wanted to make it crazy stupid affordable because again, we know the people who need it have spent some of them thousands of dollars on multiple MRR courses thinking that's the answer when it's not. They don't need another MRR course. That's not the answer. You know, but that's how marketing got.

Caitlin (35:48)

Yeah, the community needs this hands on training that you guys are about to give to them because these courses are a million. A dime. A million? What's that? Not a dime. You know what I mean?

Kristin (36:00)

What I'm trying to say is like dime a dozen.

Caitlin (36:04)

I've got millions since you guys launched and all that. But what I'm saying is like, people need to be hands on. And I've seen your speaker lineup and if you guys haven't seen their speaker lineup, it's freaking amazing. Like everyone on there is. I'm like, oh, I might buy myself a ticket. And I've been in this 15 years, but it's really nice to hear from real world people. Again, some of them that are not even in the MRI space. Yeah, tell us what, what are they, what are they going to be learning inside of it? Like, who is this pivot project for?

Kristin (36:36)

Yeah, super great question. So like the, the core of who it's for is people who are stuck in that in between if they have purchased a course that has master resell rights, which I realized that we didn't actually say what it was. It's just a licensing thing that's attached to a course that gives you permission. I know she said it a little bit in the beginning, but gives you permission to resell it for 100% profit. Like, that's just what it is. So if you're like, I don't even know what it is, that's what it is. So people that have purchased a course with master resell rights that feel and kind of automatically came into the wealth niche, like, and now are like, I don't know what to do next. I don't know, like, where I'm supposed to go, but are willing to put in the work. Like, we're going to walk them through the six weeks. A transformation of like, digging really deep into your niche and how to speak to your target audience, how to market and message in any niche and social media growth and all of those things that go into running an online business. But I will say this too, that it kind of doesn't matter even if you're like, not doing a pivot, but you're running an online business because of the speakers that are in it. And like you said, you're like, I might buy myself a ticket. Like, there's going to be value in this. Like, even if I wasn't going through a pivot and I wasn't involved at all, like, I would want to buy a ticket because of the value that I know is going to come from like, social media, from messaging, from building community, from authenticity. Like, there's, there's going to be some good nuggets for anybody who's running an online business or even a brick and mortar business because, like, there's a lot of social media marketing and, you know, messaging stuff in there that you can learn from. And for the like, for the value that equals basically like 25 a week, it's like kind of a little bit of a shot in the arm for your business growth if you're wanting to kind of set yourself up for, for 20, 25. And like, here's some things that I can incorporate and include in this. And we're including like two days a week of, a couple hours of off live office hours. So people, while they're working on stuff, they'll be able to come in and, you know, they'll be able to come in and ask questions and, you know, there's workbooks to make it Easy to follow along. And it, like, it just is a, it's, it's a no brainer for somebody who's trying to grow in their business because it's, everybody's walking through it at the same time. So there's accountability and it's that live experience where some people learn way better in that way and they're able to, to get farther when they have a community, people walking alongside them.

Caitlin (39:02)

Love that. Sheila, do you have anything to add to that?

Sheila (39:06)

I just want to encourage anybody who has given this space a shot, or maybe you've purchased courses with master resell rights attached and you've been trying to resell for months or six months or maybe even a year, and you're, you're struggling and you feel like you're banging your head against the wall and you feel like you can't figure it out and you've probably at this point lost all hope. You came into this very hopeful and you've now lost hope. Like, it's not digital products. Digital products are phenomenal. The opportunity to generate an income with a digital product is mind blowing. Like, you are in the right place. And we're gonna, we're gonna talk about that in the Pivot project in the first week actually, and we shared some, some statistics around that in the webinar. But you're not in the wrong place. You just have the wrong vessel. You just need to create your own digital product around something that you have a passion around or a gift around or a life experience that you walked through. Like our friend Paige, she pivoted out of the wealth niche and because her son was diagnosed with autism and that kind of became her world and she created a brand new account just sharing her experience. You don't have to be an expert. You only have to be 10% ahead of somebody else, like one step ahead of them to be able to teach them something. And when, when it's a gift or a passion or something that you've walked through, you feel so much more comfortable and aligned with sharing it and creating content around it. And so that's what we're going to help you do. We're going to help you discover, we're going to do some mindset work to help you fix the despair you might feel after not seeing the success you were looking for and just do some like business foundation stuff. And then we're going to help you figure out what can you create a product around. Because that's probably the biggest thing that holds people back, is they're like, okay, sure, I'll make my own thing, but I have no. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what to make it around. I don't even know how to market it. I've never even been on social media before. That's why we have what we have in the Pivot Project and why we're bringing in all of these experts who are experts in social media and building communities and how to be authentic with and build your own brand. And, like, that's what we're going to walk you through. So, you know, it might really just. It's not you. Maybe it's not you. Consider that for a second you've been in this box of being in the wealth niche when you don't belong there. There is so much money to be made with digital products outside of the wealth niche. It's crazy. It's just all you've seen is the wealth niche because that's what you're looking at in your feed.

Caitlin (41:53)

Yeah, I have so many friends that are like, I'm gonna do exactly what you do. And I'm like, no, let's back up for a minute. What do you like doing? Like, you're a teacher. What if we got into, like, free guides for teachers or stuff like that, or centers for your kids? Like, just because I'm on social media, teaching how to use social media, that there are ways to make money doing what you love to do, which is why, too. Okay, so before I know, people are going to want to know how to connect with you guys, but if you are interested in the Pivot Project, I am going to be linking it in the show notes here for the podcast. But I do think that you guys should follow these two amazing women because there's so much more than just helping you make money online. They're also really good, good people. Kristen. One of it was one of y'all helped me and Jarrah.

Kristin (42:39)

Yes, it was me.

Caitlin (42:41)

I thought it was, but I remember that was the first. We were there together for four days, but that was the first that I ever got to talk to you guys. And it was like our last night.

Kristin (42:49)

I know, I know, I know.

Caitlin (42:51)

The girls are so sweet. So you guys, how can they follow you and connect?

Kristin (42:55)

Yeah. So if. If you want to learn more about the Pivot Project, it starts live on October 1st, but you can get in if you're listening up through October 11, depending on when you're listening, you can still get in. So you can go to. To Sheila's page and she'll tell you in a minute. I'm on Instagram @. @. It's Kristen Rain, and it will be spelled in the show notes so that you know exactly how to spell that.

Sheila (43:18)

And I'm Same thing Instagram. Like, send me a message. I would love to have a conversation with you and help you navigate things. I'm Sheila Flores official, and you can see that in the show notes, too.

Caitlin (43:31)

Yeah, I'll link both of them down here. But this is a really good thing that you guys are doing for everyone. I think this is going to be a really great turnout. And like she said, like, if you just are. You're in the stage where you're banging your head against the wall, this could be your answer to getting all of that fixed. But we will have a part two of this because there's other things I want to get into here. But I really appreciate you guys being here today and opening up about all this. It's really great to learn about all of it because I've always been on the outside looking in.

Sheila (44:01)

So thanks for having us.

Kristin (44:03)

Thank you so much for having us.