← Call Her Creator with Katelyn Rhoades
Call Her Creator with Katelyn Rhoades
Ep 64. From Leads to Loyal Customers: Mastering the Art of Email, Ads, and Landing Pages
00:47:49
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- [00:00]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Call Her Creator, powered by Stan. I'm your host, Kaitlyn Rhodes, and today I have a longtime friend who's also an old colleague of mine. We both got to work at Curator together. Lauren, welcome to the podcast of Call Her Creator. You have been doing some big, huge things since we last talked.
- [00:21]
Lauren McClary
I know. Thank you for having me.
- [00:24]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Like, you guys don't understand. She's going to throw out some big names and you're going to be like, oh, wow, Lauren knows them. So, Lauren, you know, we're going to talk about social media, but you are really good off social media too. Like, kind of give them.
- [00:40]
Lauren McClary
Let's.
- [00:41]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Let's just go into it first off with, what are you doing? How are you going to help us today? What are we going to be talking about?
- [00:47]
Lauren McClary
Okay, so I am a direct response copywriter, Other, otherwise known as a sales copywriter for mostly coaches, consultants, influencers, and for some very big names. So I used to work with Grant Cardone and I've been working with Ryan Pineda for the last two years. And yeah, he is a business and real estate coach. So.
- [01:19]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Amazing.
- [01:20]
Lauren McClary
Yep. So today we are going to talk about, like, messaging positioning, like, what you should be, like, talking about. I am an expert in email marketing, email sequences, Facebook ad copy landing, page copy offer creation, that sort of thing. So, yeah, there's gonna be a lot to go over.
- [01:46]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
I love this. I love this. Okay, so let's. I wrote some questions down for Lauren. Although we might go off the cuff, but let's just kind of like, get into it. So what made you so at our old job, we look, we worked at Curator, which was kind of like a. Like a tech company, marketing for realtors specifically. Is that kind of how you got with Grant? Like, were you like, I still want to stay in the real estate space because he's kind of huge in the real estate space still, isn't he? Or he's expanded at this point.
- [02:15]
Lauren McClary
No. It's so funny you say that because after Curator, I was like, I don't want to be in real estate anymore. I want to do something else. And then like, both of the major jobs I had after that were in real estate, but they were more so on the education, like, investing side. So it's so funny. I did do a brief stint in E Com, so I have a little bit of that background. But yeah, I never sought out to do that, but I always wanted to work for famous people, so I got to, like, do that even though it was in Real estate, it didn't care. At least these people were like, gurus.
- [02:50]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
You know, how did you get connected to Grant? Like, I'm so sorry, because I didn't even warn Lauren about asking her these questions. But I need to know, like, how did that even happen?
- [02:59]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, it's so funny. Like, people think, like, oh, you have to know somebody to get in at these places. But actually, both of my jobs, Grant and Pineda, both of them were from LinkedIn, and I don't even have, like, a presence or anything. Um, Grant, I saw the job posted and I applied to it, and it was in Miami, and I was living in Orlando at the time. And so I thought to myself, like, wouldn't it be fun if Wouldn't it be fun to get an interview when it'd be fun to move to Miami and work there? So I applied, I got an interview right away. And then they were like, how fast can you move to Miami? I was like, give me 30 days. I rented out my place and showed up in Miami 30 days later. And that's how I. I got that job. And then I got recruited, like, headhunted to come to Pineda from there. So.
- [03:53]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Wow. Okay. Crazy. That's so crazy. So, like, what made you realize that? Email, ads, landing pages, like, how did you even get into doing all of that? I know. So just to give our listeners a little bit of a background, we kind of did that stuff. We were kind of writing copy, but we also, like, were having to get copy from someone that was up above us, kind of put the copy together for us, and we were generally copy and pasting. So, like, did you know that you wanted to do something like that? Like, how did you get involved?
- [04:23]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, it was actually like, I guess, like, when the pandemic happened. 2020 was when I went further into direct response versus what you and I were in at Curator, which was more so, like content marketing.
- [04:36]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
What is direct response? Because you keep saying that word and some people might not know what that means. I don't even fully know what you're saying.
- [04:42]
Lauren McClary
I know, because it's totally different worlds. Like, you are content creation minus direct response. Direct response is like. Like content that is going to make people take an action. And it's typically like written content. It's ads, it's emails. Clicking a button on a landing page, you want them to either opt in, sign up, buy the thing, book a call.
- [05:07]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Is it, like, salesy? Like, it's definitely, like, your sales driven? Well, I guess. Could it be, like, for a lead for, like, A lead magnet?
- [05:15]
Lauren McClary
Um, yeah, I mean, a lead magnet. It's kind of a little bit of both, in my opinion. Like, I don't know where it falls, but it's content. So it's like attraction content. Because typically a lead magnet is gonna be for like a cold audience. Right. Um, and I guess inside a lead magnet, you could have a call to action, and if they complete to call to action, then you could consider that direct response. Um, but I would say direct response is like, you know, and emails and that sort of thing.
- [05:42]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Okay, I love this. So for someone who's just starting to take their marketing seriously, why is mastering this written content, this direct response, like, why does that matter?
- [05:55]
Lauren McClary
You know, like with social, like, you're driving traffic, but it's like, where are you driving that traffic?
- [06:02]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yes.
- [06:03]
Lauren McClary
So you have to have somewhere to send them, which is going to be like your offer. So you have to make sure your offer is good. You have to have a landing page on whatever tech platform. You know, have people opt in, that sort of thing. And then like emails. Because your question, where you phrased it, is like, if they're starting to take their marketing seriously, then if they're creating content and they're like, they're pushing out all this content, but then they're trying to go to the next step and they're like, trying to make sales, then your next step is like creating like an email list and then like marketing to that email list, um, making sure your landing page is solid, all of that. So, yeah, if you're starting out, like, I would be making an email list and sending out emails.
- [06:50]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Okay, I like that. I like that. Which you kind of talked about. Like, so social media people get on there and you don't really know where it goes. So I would say that a lot of people hop on social media in the first place to get discovered. Okay, so can you explain the difference between attracting people so the attraction content versus actually converting them, the conversion content? Because people need to know those are two different things.
- [07:19]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, so like, everything, I feel like everything on social media now is like top of funnel for the most part, because a very small amount of your followers do actually see your content, and those people are like your raving fans. So they will come in and out and see it, but pretty much everything is top of funnel and you're. You're pushing it out to the masses. So I like to use the example of dating coaches, because I follow a ton of dating coaches because I am dating. I'm trying to find a partner. So the, the dating coaches, they put out like very like just top of funnel content, like teaching like micro like things like just bite sized pieces of information that you're like, oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's a great technique. But for the most part they're not like, I mean sometimes there's a call to action at the end to buy a course or something like that. But especially for the them to go viral and to do very well, they typically don't. And that's okay. You don't have to have a call to action to everything. You want to get known. And that's kind of like the key there but for like conversion content. And to me that kind of like means two things. Like if you're doing content like on social, like what you do, um, versus like emails or whatever, then emails would have just like a stronger call to action. So you can provide some value but you want somebody to take an action because that's what direct response is all about. Um, and then at the end of like your reel or whatever or in the caption, you know, like you direct people to go somewhere else. So if you're directing them to go somewhere else to, for more, then that's more like conversion content and you don't need to do that all the time. Like I would say like a lot of top of funnel focus on like entertaining, educating. I mean that's a lot of what you do. A lot of what you do is entertaining. And like marketing is very niche but you've been able to grow an audience by being funny and giving bite size information. But then like you've got your things that are more serious and you're pushing people to book a call with your studio and you know, go further with you.
- [09:33]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yeah, yeah. So in fact this is really good topic that we're talking about because I get a lot of clients that are like, I don't know what I should post and I'm like, okay, well are you trying to grow right now or are you trying to launch a product or like make money? Because top of the funnel is going to be more growth focused and if you're trying to launch something, we're going to be a little more salesy. So exactly what Lauren's saying, like for growth you're looking at that top of the funnel type content which some people listening here, Lauren might not even know what a funnel is. Could you briefly act like I'm an alien on earth? What's the marketing funnel even look like?
- [10:10]
Lauren McClary
Okay, so we know that there's Two ways to define a funnel. One is like a literal funnel. So like a sales page, a page that you land on from an ad, um, cold traffic, people that don't know you and they read your sales page, which is also called a funnel. And that term is kind of coined by like Russell Brunson and click funnels, all of that. So people call sales pages funnels. Um, but then also what I think you and I are talking about here in that context is top of funnel, you know, top, middle, bottom. And so we actually learned this like years ago. Like Chris and Jimmy, they were way ahead of their time talking about the different audiences that you serve at each point in the customer journey. So we, for our clients in real estate would put out like just very like fluffy content, like how to move with your pet and like, just like best Christmas lights in, in, you know, Georgia or whatever. You remember we did all that. So that was like fraction like people that didn't know who that agent was and saw that content. And it's like very friendly, very unassuming, like you're not trying to make a sale. And then like your middle is like your DIY projects, like how to increase your home's value, like people that are curious, you know, about buying and selling. And then if we're going with the real estate example, the bottom of funnel, we did quite a few campaigns that were like get your home's value, like basically like book a call type of vibes. Those people went all the way down the funnel. And the idea is that they convert at the bottom of the funnel.
- [11:58]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yeah, yeah, I like that. And that's what we kind of do here with the social media agency at Influence Marketing Studio. We're always like, we kind of make content in a 30 day calendar. And so like we'll do like that fluffy content at the top where you just kind of like they don't know who you are. So you just need to be relatable or educate them or something. But then as you move further through that month, you know you're giving them real life tips that they can use. And then towards the end you're like, hey, schedule, call with me. I see you be looking at everything I'm posting. I know you're starting to trust me now. Now let me help you do this thing. So that's kind of what that is. Let's see, let's see. Okay. For someone who's overwhelmed by content creation, this question number five for you. What's one type of content that they should focus on first? Social media. Post landing pages, like, where should they start?
- [12:52]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So I think the simple answer there is like, if you have nothing, like, if you have no business, not no infrastructure, I would say then just get out there and start posting. So you want to get known, want to get discovered, because people can build a following without selling anything. And then you can start selling things once you get traction in your industry. But, like, you don't really go like the opposite, like, way.
- [13:22]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
You're not going to grow your account by showing up on day one and being like, hey, I'm selling this. Do you want to buy it from me? Like, no, they need to know who you are. You need to warm them up.
- [13:32]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. But let's say you do have a business, and we worked with a lot of entrepreneurs here at Pineda that had big businesses and were making a lot of money, but they did not show up on, on camera. And those people had a desire do so. And if you do, then that's great, get out there and do it. But if you have a business that's already making money, I would say, like, put time and effort and money into email because email still converts at like such a high rate. They still say like 80% of revenue comes from emails. People think it's like a dinosaur. But I think just in general, even with like, AI and stuff, I still think email is like the best way to like stay in contact with people.
- [14:15]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
People. 1,000%. I do. We do a newsletter every Tuesday and then I'll do a podcast newsletter type every Thursday. But if I'm like, okay, I need to sell some of my digital products, I am out there on email because they know me. I don't really have to like, prove myself. It's more so like, hey, here's what I did and here's what you're struggling with. Take this and trust me.
- [14:37]
Lauren McClary
Right, Exactly.
- [14:39]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
I love that. What's a mistake that you see business owners make when they try to create content for conversions only late?
- [14:48]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So I think that the biggest mistake would be like putting pressure on one piece of content to like, be the conversion piece of content. Because, like, at the end of the day, like, if you are consistent putting out content, you could get a conversion on one email or one video or something. But you don't really know, like in the lead up to that. Like, it compounds. Right? Like, people see multiple videos, multiple emails. I mean, I send emails all the time for Ryan, like book a call. And some don't do well. And some do really well. And it has to do with the nature of the email for sure. But also just like, receiving enough emails and being like, something triggered them and was like, okay, I'm ready now. So I would, like, don't get discouraged if, like, your conversion content isn't converting because it's like, it's so much more than that. It's like the lead up to it, and then you have to, like, have a balance. Like, you have to always be providing value. You have to entertain.
- [15:56]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
You know, the compound effect you said is just so true. Like, I've been pouring myself into everything since 2021 when I left Curator and I was freelancing. I'm like, okay, so I started posting on Instagram and then I was growing my email list, and then I was posting on Facebook. We just started posting on YouTube and then I've got my podcast. So I've got all these different things. And I told my husband, I'm like, either one of these are going to stick or, you know, there's going to be a compound effect. They're seeing me there, they're hearing me here, they're seeing me there. And it really kind of came full circle for us this week. I was at the gas station yesterday and I had a call from someone who saw one of our ads in the local magazine, which was print marketing, which I don't even really. I just started doing print marketing. I was like, oh, my God, thank you so much for seeing my print marketing. And then got in my car and I got an email and it was someone that said, hey, I just listened to your podcast. I want to have a call with you. So I'm like, oh, my God, full circle moment. It's all compounding. Someone seeing me here, someone's. And it just felt so good. And so I agree with you. Like, there's no need to put all your eggs in one basket. Like, get good at all these different things. Email landing pages, Facebook, Instagram, social media, like, they all start to work together.
- [17:14]
Lauren McClary
You don't have to do it all on your own. You can outsource it. So you can work somebody like Caitlin or you can work with somebody like me. So if email is not your forte and you just want to focus on videos and you have the budget to do so, then always outsource source.
- [17:29]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yes, 1000%. Don't work in your business. Work on your business. That too. So let's say, let's talk about email for a minute. If someone were to show up to you, Lauren, and they have zero email strategy right now, like, what would you tell. Where would you Tell them to start.
- [17:47]
Lauren McClary
So if they don't have an email strategy at all and like they have a list but they're kind of scared because sometimes people are really scared to like email their list and they don't want to bother their list and they're scared to like really promote themselves and like ask for the call, ask for the sale. I would just for that reason and also because email systems need to be warmed up. We know that. So I would send to, you know, if you're like a coach or something or maybe you are a realtor, like you have past clients, if you have like a list of like friendly people that know you like you, um, that sort of thing, I would start by, you know, sending them. Like you just mentioned that you send out a newsletter. You could do a newsletter. You could send out your recent podcast episodes if you have a podcast or you were featured on one. And if you don't have that kind of content, you can just send out things that you are loving right now. Like if you're in marketing, you can send out new AI tools that you're testing. Just anything that is going to provide value to the other person without like an agenda at first. So have them be like, oh, this person like is sending me good information. They're going to be opening the emails. And then further down the line you can start more of like the salesy emails, Book a call, purchase something in the car, like low ticket, attend a webinar. And I also think that's another like friendly way to get them back in through email is like inviting them to some type of webinar if you have one.
- [19:25]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's even a good way too. Guys, if you're listening and you're like, well, I don't even have an email list. One of the agency books I read about, building your seven figure agency, he says that the way he built his email list was by providing free webinars every month. He would like promote them on Facebook and push people to a landing page and get them to sign up. And that's how he built his list. And now he does like a free webinar every month to keep on building that list. What are some ways? This was not predetermined question either, Lauren. But what are some ways for people that don't have any email subscribers, what are the best ways to start building that list?
- [20:02]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, and like I'm gonna be doing that for myself here pretty soon. So. Yeah, I mean you can do like a lead magnet or like a free like mini course or something like that.
- [20:15]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Stand store actually has a free lead magnet. Like you literally just pop in your lead magnet and it collects the emails for you. And it's super easy to use. So check that out.
- [20:25]
Lauren McClary
I think Stan something like that would be really easy to use. So shout out to Stan if anybody needs easy CRM. You know, lead magnet, all that get you a Stan store. But yeah, so I would do something like that to have like link in bio. Not too much pressure. I think even I'm guilty of this. People get stressed out about the course has to be perfect. The PDF isn't enough, like something like that. But I just think whatever knowledge you have, package it. Even if it's like a little bit janky. With AI now there's like really no excuse and I have to tell myself that too. No excuse. You can have it just quickly bare bones designed. You can film something on loom and you can put just loom videos up. Like you know, it doesn't matter. And then of course you want to like start creating content. And I think people are guilty of this. They either have one side of the puzzle or they have the other. Like they can make the lead magnet but they're scared to make content. Or they can make content but they don't know how to make the lead magnet or build the list. The tech scares them because the tech scares me and I am an email marketer. Like the tech is not fun guys unless you're a very analytical person. So yeah, you do have to sadly master both because you could. It's like build it and they will come, but like they won't come. Like you can build it and like you, you need a traffic source, whether that's paid ads, whether that's content, like what Caitlin teaches. Yeah, you need to make content and then drive traffic. Have your call to action at the end, you know, link in bio or there's like many chat with the automation. Like drop the word XYZ below and I'll send you this. So that's a great way to grow your email list. And of course you can have somebody else set that up for you. You don't have to set it up yourself if it's scary.
- [22:22]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
1000%. And another shout out to Stan too. They actually just came out with DM automation. So when you get your stand store, you're not only paying for a stand store which will host everything for you collect lead magnets, but you can do DM automation without paying an extra subscription for manychat. I love both, but I wanted to put that out There. And I love how you said, build it and they won't come because we're all used to the build it and they will come, but that's just not how it is these days. Like, you have to show up and market and do all the things. So let's say with. With us kind of talking about build it and they won't come, let's say that you are ready to start being salesy. Okay, you've got your email going. You've sent a few fluffy emails, provided value, you've got some readers, your open rates are great. Now it's time for you to create an email that invites someone to book a call. How. What's your structure for that? What's your go to? Like, how do you get someone to actually respond to a book a call email?
- [23:23]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, so I actually do have, like, quite a signature process for this. I feel like a lot of things people are like, how do you do this? What's your process? And I genuinely don't know. Like, it's just a gift. I. I don't know. But lately I have been, I've been using AI for a long time. The whole two years I worked for Ryan. He really encouraged me to lean into it. And that was such a gift because now I'm like an expert in like prompting and getting the results I want. So if you're looking for like the lowest hanging fruit and like, how to kind of craft those emails, I will say I think this, like, might, we might be talking about this later. But like, my process is like six to eight lines, no tag, like, no images, nothing like that. Very simple. And I. It is twofold, it is value driven, but it has a strong call to action. And so to circle back to the AI, if you have a podcast, you are on a podcast, something like that, you can get a plugin called Glarity and it will give you the transcript of the YouTube podcast. And then you can put that in AI and you can tell it to pull out, like, the themes that would be good for an email and tell it to pull out as many as it can. And then you can kind of choose from them which ones you want to lean into. And you have to think about, like, you know, the, the pain points that people are experiencing what they desire. So you can like, kind of, you know, do that or current events, or you can jack other people's podcasts. Like, you could put like an Alex Hormozy podcast in there, have it give you different. Have it give you different, like, themes, and then you can write them as if you were speaking those. If you were telling the story about, you know, whatever. So that has worked really well for me to, like, do the transcript for Ryan's podcast and then write emails based off the different themes that he goes over and throw in little personal stories and whatnot. So I would highly recommend that basically, you just talk about how people don't want to do xyz or how, like, people think it's hard or, you know, say there's something in the media happening and you can, like, news jacket. And then in the end, it's like. Like, if you're ready to finally do the thing, then book a call.
- [25:57]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
I love that. And that is so true. Like, this is a really good tidbit that just shared. When I send out my newsletter emails, they definitely have sections, they have photos. They, you know, there's a lot in them. When I'm like, okay, it's time to sell my reels Challenge it is. No pictures are in there. It's text. It's a few links.
- [26:18]
Lauren McClary
You know what?
- [26:19]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
I've even heard, too, Lauren, and I want your advice on this. I'm learning that when you put, like, dollar signs or you use the word sale or stuff like that in subject lines, can that hurt your open rate? Like, or even. Not even your open rate, but maybe. Where will Google put you in spam? Like, do you know anything about that?
- [26:39]
Lauren McClary
They say that it does. They've been saying that for years and years and years, ever since we were working at Curator. I think there has to be some truth to it. So I would venture on. I would err on the side of caution and say, yes, it does matter. I think sometimes you can get away with it. I wouldn't use them repeatedly. Over and over again. People even say that emojis can ding you. And I don't know if that's true or not, but I would use emojis sparingly. Like, I don't use them very often in Ryan's emails here and there. But, yeah, I would just be careful with words like free, you know? Yeah.
- [27:21]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
What are some hot words to avoid?
- [27:23]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, free is a big one. The word money. Money and even some variations of it. Sometimes I use cash, but even that is, like, a lot. Or you could just be, like. You could call it something else to get around it, like dough or something. But, like, I know that's lame, but I would not. I would not say the word money. I would not use the dollar sign, because that definitely comes off as spam.
- [27:48]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
I thought emojis helped, I think.
- [27:51]
Lauren McClary
Like, I don't know. I do not have a definitive answer on this, but I have heard that emojis can come off as spammy. So I would, I would use them, but I would use them like sparingly. And your emails hit my general inbox, so I think you're okay. Okay.
- [28:06]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's really good. Golden nuggets, Lauren.
- [28:10]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. And then there is like a, like a footer thing that you just like. I don't know. We had it at Cardone. It was basically like a really fluffy footer with like key words in it and you could go and you could steal his or somebody else's. That is like a major influencer that has the footer. Put it in Chat gbt. Put it in Chat GBT and tell it that you want it to be for your business and what you do. And then just put that footer in like very small, like gray font at the bottom of your emails. And just every single one. Try it because it does work. People have paid a lot of money for those footers to be like custom made, but I'm pretty sure you can just reverse engineer the ones that already exist and then that will keep you from spam and like promo and help you try to hit the main inbox.
- [29:07]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Wow, that's. How did you learn that trick?
- [29:10]
Lauren McClary
Well, we were dealing with that at Cardone. So they have a footer and then I had one made for Ryan and we just use chat gbt. So that's awesome. Worked. So I would recommend that. I don't think that the average person needs to do that if they don't have a large database, but if somebody is happening to listen and they have. They are a guru and a coach and they have hundreds of thousands of people in their database, that is a good thing to do and at least try it out. And. And marketing changes. This was in 2022. I don't know if this is still like the best practice, but it definitely helped us at the time. So I would recommend trying it.
- [29:51]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's almost like putting keywords, like in your captions and stuff. Sometimes it just helps these weird algorithms. So that is wild. Wow.
- [30:00]
Lauren McClary
Like anti spam.
- [30:01]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Wow. Okay. Anti spam. Tip. That's awesome. Okay, let's move on to landing pages because I think a lot of people struggle with writing landing pages. So let's start off first. What's the biggest mistake people do when they're creating a landing page to make sales?
- [30:22]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So I think people over complicate like what they're Selling, like, sometimes I read landing pages and I'm like, what are you selling? Like, I just genuinely don't understand that even happened a couple of months ago in the Women Helping Women Entrepreneur Facebook group, which I think you're in.
- [30:44]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Wow.
- [30:45]
Lauren McClary
So a girl was selling some type of manifestation workshop or something. And like, I can't even remember the full thing, but I. She was like, can anybody help me? This isn't converting. And I looked at the landing page and I was like, girl, what the hell? So I gave her like serious bullet points, like in the Facebook group. And I was super nice and I didn't want to hurt her feelings or anything, so I was like, okay, this is good. But like, I would make the headline this and the sub headline this, and I would like fix your messaging a little bit and talk more about the pain point and then like, what you're actually selling. Because spiritual stuff can get like real woo woo, hippie, dippy, and like, at the end of the day, you don't know what you're selling. So it was important to have outside eyes, my eyes as an expert, to be able to see, like, I think you just get stuck in the forest. Like you can't see the trees, whatever that term is. And I think it's a good idea, whether you're asking an expert or just a friend who may not be as familiar with your product or service to like read your landing page and be like, hey, does this make sense? Like, would this entice you? So, yeah, I think, like, I think you need to have like outside eyes on it basically, and just get your clear.
- [31:56]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's a good idea. Because too, a lot of people start talking that industry jargon too, and you're like, what, what are you even talking about? You know what I mean? We got, we have to dumb it down.
- [32:07]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, we're guilty of that in marketing for sure. Because we think that everybody understands. And I'm like, oh my God, this is so like, you know, elementary. And people are like, lauren, no, it's not.
- [32:17]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yeah, yeah, let's say. Okay, so like, you talk about three different elements that make up a landing page. There's your pain point, your desire, and then handling objections. Can you kind of walk us through how to write each one of those effectively?
- [32:35]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So I mean, everybody is motivated by different things, right? Pain, pleasure, you know, whatever it is. And even thinking like, you know, biz op for an example, like if you have like a business opportunity, like, people want to make more money, they want like maybe free time, they want freedom Some, you know, like you as an entrepreneur, you wanted free time. You know, there's, there's a lot of different things that are going to motivate people. So you have to kind of come up with the common ones and then like work through those.
- [33:14]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
So yeah, how do we find these pain points? Like, so I always tell people, I always talk about buyer's Personas and how when you have a business, you should be coming up with like three different buyers Personas. And what that means is like you have an audience but you, let's, let's pretend you have like three people that you really want to sell to. Right? So like we'll just pretend. For me, I'm a social media manager that owns an agency. So my first avatar might be, you know, a busy owner who doesn't have the time to do it themselves. You can get super nitty gritty with it. Like you can say like their gender, their age, what business they're in. But we'll just say for this time that avatar is just, he's a business owner and he doesn't have time for it. My next avatar might be a business owner who. What would be another one? They don't have time. I should know this. I should know who my buyer's Personas are. They don't have time, don't have the team to do it. You know, maybe they're making all this money, but they're freaking burnout. So they're ready to just off board.
- [34:19]
Lauren McClary
It or they're just overwhelmed with the tech and they, or they don't know how to make pictures and videos.
- [34:25]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
They just don't know how to do it. So like they're in the, in every business owner has a, a different buyer's Persona. Right? Like even like Target has a ton of buyers Personas. They've got stay at home moms or they've got like the busy college kid. You have to really sit down and nail down who, who your target audience is. And I think once you nail that down, you can write really good emails and landing pages because you know exactly who you're talking to. I always tell people if you talk to everyone, you end up talking to no one, right?
- [34:59]
Lauren McClary
Yep. And that's why like you get a lot of at bats here whether you're posting on social or you are sending out emails, because you know it is a different person reading it every time. So like even for Ryan, it's like you've got the young like Gen Z boy, you've got the millennial boy. You've Even got, like, older women that invest in, like, his real estate coaching. Wow. So it just depends. And for those book a call emails, I really rotate, like, that buyer Persona because you just don't know who's going to resonate with what. Yes. So the other day I, I sent one about Ryan had a reel, and it was talking about how, like, most guys or people, like, rely on, like, getting, like, lucky instead of actually putting in the work. So he talked about sports betting and this, like, gambling. Sports betting, just, like, luck. And then like, I turned that into an email being like, you know, like, I put sports betting, like, if you're just like, waiting for the cowboys to hit, like, you know, whatever, like, that's not a strategy. And if you want to actually, like, put in the work and make the amount of money, like, per transaction that you would win in a massive sports bet, like, I can teach you how to do that. And that email, like, booked a lot of calls and I'm sure they were males because they probably resonated with sports betting. So you just have to think about, like, what someone's going to resonate with. You know, that's really good.
- [36:29]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
And that kind of goes into, like, when we're identifying, like, different gaps in our marketing. Right. So a lot of people might miss the mark because they're, they're not focused on who that buyer's Persona is. Instead, they're just writing for themselves. But this is a really great example, Lauren, where you're. You wrote that email based off of who you think, like, would be interested in, in sports betting and stuff like that. So that's probably why a lot of businesses miss the mark when they're marketing to their leads because they're talking about themselves too much.
- [37:03]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. Like, of course I sprinkle in Ryan's personal, like, failures and triumphs and stuff to get people to, like, believe they can do it. And I do use, like, testimonials and, like, stuff like that. But yeah, I feel like when I relate it to something that's like pop culture, something that they do, something like that, it, it pops off and it resonates. So, yeah, it's like, it's not about, like, you know, Ryan doing xyz. It's like, you know, oh, if you're doing this right now, you could be doing this. And they're like, oh, my God.
- [37:39]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Yeah. What about say, so let's go back to a minute where we were talking about landing pages and stuff like that and talking to our person, like our buyer's Persona. Let's say we're driving a lot of traffic to our website or we're driving a lot of traffic to a landing page, but we're just not seeing conversions. Like, where should we start for our troubleshooting? What's. How do we figure out what's wrong?
- [38:05]
Lauren McClary
Just at first glance, it's going to be your headline and your sub headline because that's the first thing that people see and most people are on mobile, so they will see the headline and the sub headline and then maybe like a button, but they don't really see the rest of the copy. So you have to make sure that the beginning is enticing enough where it tells you like problem solution, like whatever, you know it is. Like if it's a webinar, you usually in the sub headline will have like the date and then like the name of it. Or if it's like some other type of standard landing page for a different offer, then you can get like way more juicy with it and kind of like hook them because essentially that's the equivalent of like a hook. Yeah, but yeah.
- [38:47]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Do you use Chat GPT to help with those subheadings and landing pages?
- [38:52]
Lauren McClary
Oh, yeah, I, I have Chat GPT write entire landing pages, but I don't think I'm the average person for that. Like, I think people would get pretty bad output if they did that. But I had put like a long form landing page that Russell Brunson had and I put it in and then I like reverse engineered it and I was like, make me a template of this, like of all the things. And then like I would use that template to like have it do the landing page similar to his and like the format that it was in. So you can definitely do that. And you can take like old landing pages or you can take like a competitor's landing page and you can put it in Chat GBT and kind of have it like rework it.
- [39:37]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
So I've done that before. I've used like bigger people out there and said, hey, rewrite me something like this, but with my product. And it works pretty good. But I agree with you. You have to give Chat GPT really good context if you want good output. And so it takes time learning for sure. All right, last bit that I want to talk about and that's turning your cold leads into raving fans. So you've mentioned before that handling objections is key to warming up these cold leads. Right. So what's your favorite way to address these objections in your written content? So like someone's on your landing Page, they're liking what they hear, but, oh, they might have an objection come up. How do you, how do you fit that? How do you fix that before? Like, how do you save them?
- [40:26]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So when I'm thinking about this from like a coaching, like guru info product perspective, which is the one that I'm in, I would say, like, you have to show them basically, like what you've been able to overcome. And so that is usually pretty important and you definitely want to do that. And then also like showcasing what others people have done, like your students and whatnot. Because I think it's important to share what, how you overcame it because that's part of like the hero's journey, right? Like with what Russell Brunson teaches where you like had a problem, you know, you found a guide or you taught yourself and then you are now teaching others. So it's important to note. But sometimes I do think people think it's so unattainable, so they almost don't believe that. So even with Ryan, sometimes we struggle, like, because Ryan is like so above that. Like, people can't really see themselves stepping into those shoes. So I often will even say, like, you know, Ryan is like an eight figure earner, but like, you can't think about making eight figures, seven figures until you make six figures. So I often spin it as like, you know, you could make six figures, like multi six figures doing this. And then people are like, I could see that. And then like our, our students who make like over 100k multi 6 figures, like when we showcase them, we get better results because, you know, people can see themselves climbing the ladder to that. Wrong. But they can't see themselves going all the way to the top.
- [42:08]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's so funny you said that. I was just listening. I listened to Lori Harder a lot. Her podcast, Earn your Happy. I love her, but she was just talking about when she has people in masterminds, there's sometimes a disconnect because those people in the masterminds will look at the person on stage and be like, well, that's unattainable. I'm not going to attain that. So her and her husband Chris tell people to look at people 1 degree or 2 degrees above them or something like that, something that's more attainable. And I really love that. And, and now like, you're the second person or the second time this week that I've heard that. So I need to start thinking about that when I'm telling my own offers. Maybe there's a disconnect. This is Me just thinking out loud. But maybe there's a disconnect with. Some people are like, oh well I can't achieve that because I'm not even here yet. So maybe we need to like break it down a little bit, slow it down and, and show things. That's another reason why social proof is so important. And like when I am making these landing pages or sending these emails, I try so hard to show social proof of like my DMs. Like I just had a private coaching call for eight weeks with this realtor who launched her first product and it's not like she's selling this huge ticket items but they're like $179 and she's been selling them and this is her first time selling. So I'm using her as an example for people because they again, they don't think that that's attainable. So I really, I love what you're saying. Like the social proof is so important for you to sell. If someone was listening today and they could only take one action item away from what we've been talking about, like how would you tell them to improve their messaging? What would you recommend for them?
- [43:46]
Lauren McClary
Yeah, so I would say just to deeply understand your customer avatar, like their wants and their struggles. You can use AI and Google for doing this. That's what Andy Elliott talked about on stage at Funnel Hacking was talking about how he got big on YouTube by just googling like industry related questions and then looking at all the other questions that people were asking in that industry and then making videos answering those questions, which I think is going to be my strategy as I am going to start my YouTube channel, is to just start answering questions that people ask about marketing. So that's a really easy way to get started. So yeah, just answer the questions that people want to know.
- [44:37]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
That's really good. And there's answer the public. Guys, if you're trying to think of questions we're asking and you don't know, if you don't know what they're thinking or what they want to know, go to answer the public. There's really great stuff there. And then as Lauren said, you can actually type a question in Google and whatever's kind of showing up underneath that, take those and answer those in little short form. Videos or emails or landing pages, whatever, you know, however you share content. That's a really good tip there. Let's talk about mindset. Mindset shift. What is something like, what's a mindset shift that business owners need to make when they're transitioning from content for attention to content for sales.
- [45:18]
Lauren McClary
Yeah. So I think, you know, attention content is like so broad and it's going to be like shocking educational. It's going to be for the masses. So when you're making content, think about it's. It's for the masses, it's for virtually everybody, depending on what you're selling. And then, you know, for sales content, it's going to be like talking about deeper problems that these people have and just like a lot more serious. And then that's how you can like make your solution known is by doing that. And yeah, it's like I keep using like the dating coach analogy because I'm like knee deep in dating coach content. But like, yeah, I can kind of tell when they are doing content that's broad for the masses and then like content for their followers to, you know, book a call for private coaching to, you know, join their group program, you know. Yeah, they have like their calls to action about joining, like their like programs and stuff like, you know, find your soulmate and stuff like that.
- [46:23]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
So very call to action type content. Awesome. This was so good. Lauren, how can listeners connect with you if they want to reach you after this? Because you're amazing and you have so much goodness to share with us.
- [46:35]
Lauren McClary
Yes. So my Instagram is just my name, Lauren McClary, which I'm sure my name will be in the show notes and then I am going to start a YouTube channel. So I think I will just have it be my name as well. So this, this podcast is evergreen, I think, so you know, people will find it anytime down the road. So hopefully I am taking my own advice and I am creating content because I am like a secret, hidden gem right now. But I'm wanting to be out in the open and sharing more insights. So hopefully I have everything set up by the time you follow me there.
- [47:15]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
You just need to start posting more, Lauren, because you're amazing. So much goodness and you've worked with so many incredible people like, you know, things that we don't know. So, yes, I will leave Lauren's Instagram in the show notes for us. And when she gets her YouTube channel, I'll link that for us too. Once she gets that up and goes.
- [47:32]
Lauren McClary
I gotta do it now, guys.
- [47:34]
Kaitlyn Rhodes
Gotta do it now. But thank you guys so much for listening today. I hope you loved today's podcast episode and if you have any questions, feel free to send me a DM on call her creator or the Caitlin Rhodes. But for today, we are out. Thank you guys. So much for being here.
- [47:49]
Lauren McClary
Thank you for having me.