Chloe Bailey: Relationship Red Flags & Redefining Success

Summary

Call Her Daddy – “Chloe Bailey: Relationship Red Flags & Redefining Success”

Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Chloe Bailey
Release Date: July 1, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Alex Cooper welcomes multitalented singer, songwriter, and actress Chloe Bailey. Together, they dive into personal milestones, the power of sisterhood, navigating fame from a young age, redefining what it means to be successful as a woman, and the complexities of adult relationships. Throughout, Chloe opens up about her career transitions—from YouTube beginnings with her sister Halle Bailey, being signed by Beyoncé, handling solo stardom, and advocating for mental health and self-worth. The conversation is candid, warm, and full of tangible insights for young women navigating similar journeys.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reflecting on Age, Growth & Manifestation

Timestamps: 02:33–06:38

• Turning 28: Chloe celebrates her birthday, reflecting on her journey and self-growth.

  • Chloe: “I'm feeling really good... working my ass off... realizing what's important and what makes me happiest... I am healing, I am doing self work.” (03:13)

• Manifesting Big Careers: Chloe credits mood boards and manifesting for career milestones, such as being signed to Beyoncé’s Parkwood label and collaborating with Donald Glover.

  • Chloe: “Anything I put on my mood board... I would tell everybody, we’re going to be the first artist signed to Beyoncé... And literally it happened.” (05:13–05:39)

• On staying positive: Chloe notes childlike confidence and optimism can erode with age but urges returning to that mindset for creative breakthroughs.

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2. Early Fame, Sisterhood, and Support Systems

Timestamps: 06:44–17:53

• YouTube Origins: Chloe and Halle started uploading song covers on YouTube at 10 and 8, gaining attention and ultimately Beyoncé’s mentorship.
• Sister Dynamic: Their relationship is an anchor—Chloe frames herself as the more affectionate, protective “motherly” older sister, while Halle is independent.
  • Chloe: “I'd always put her before myself... I have to retrain myself... we’re both our own individuals.” (16:59–17:53)
• Dealing with Being Compared: They were often pitted against each other by media and fans, but their contrasting personalities make their collaboration unique.
  • Chloe: “But that’s the beauty of us. We’re like fire and water.” (19:53)

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3. Representation and Navigating the Entertainment Industry

Timestamps: 20:05–24:47

• Embracing natural hair and identity: Chloe speaks honestly about industry pressures to change her and Halle’s Black, loc’d image and the journey from self-doubt to self-love.
  • Chloe: “I love my locs, I’ll never change them.” (21:41)
• Artistic Joy as Armor: The love for their craft and genuine joy in creating music overshadowed external criticism and judgment.

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4. Going Solo & Finding Self-Worth

Timestamps: 24:47–36:08

• Solo Debut Challenges: Halle’s commitments to filming The Little Mermaid sparked Chloe’s solo journey. There was no plan to split up—she just filled the creative void.
• “Have Mercy” & Overcoming Backlash: Chloe’s debut solo performances, notably the viral and controversial Juneteenth “Have Mercy” performance, were criticized as “too sexy.” She turned criticism into empowerment.
  • Chloe: “You get to tell me, ‘Oh, she got a nice ass,’ but I can’t go in the mirror and say it? ... Everyone feels like they have ownership over women’s bodies except the one who owns it.” (34:02–34:14)
  • “Because of all that negativity, I got my first platinum single. My debut solo single turned platinum.” (35:09)

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5. Redefining Success and Self-Worth

Timestamps: 36:10–46:33

• Navigating Self-Doubt in the Spotlight: Chloe shares how external validation can cloud personal joy, advocating for therapy and internal fulfillment.
  • “It’s rewarding when you get an applause... but that’s not what’s all that special about you.” (38:17–39:09)
• Tour, Criticism, and Perspective: Despite disappointing sales for her debut album, her live tour sold out and fans knew the lyrics—a lesson in real vs. perceived success.
  • “I wish I appreciated [tour] more in the moment because I was so in my head. Now I walk into spaces with a different sense of gratitude.” (44:45)

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6. People-Pleasing, Boundaries & Saying No

Timestamps: 49:00–51:01

• Embracing Assertiveness: Chloe discusses learning to set boundaries as a former people-pleaser and the discomfort of being labeled harshly for standing up for herself.
  • “Sometimes when you people please, you leave yourself out, darling.” (49:00)
  • “As a woman, you should be able to speak your mind without being labeled as the B word.” (49:45)

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7. Relationship Red Flags & Lessons Learned

Timestamps: 51:01–60:23

• Self-Love First: Recognizing that healthy relationships start with self-work.
  • “To be able to properly love someone, you have to do the proper self work or you will love them in an unhealthy way... you're only doing what you know.” (51:19)
• Deal-Breakers: Chloe is now unbothered by disrespect, setting firmer boundaries in love.
  • “Disrespect. Disrespect... You're getting blocked.” (52:09)
  • “Sometimes people like to humble you—in very subtle, small ways... Is this my lover or my hater?” (53:36, 53:49)
• Cheating & Red Flags: Describes collecting evidence of betrayal, holding it in, and confronting only on her own terms.
  • “This was me looking up at the ceiling in the dark… I still wanted my night of cuddles. I’m that toxic.” (56:26, 56:02)
• Rapid-Fire Dating Scenarios: Discussing deal-breakers including love bombing, hiding from family, location-sharing, and “once a cheater, always a cheater” myths.

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8. Creativity, New Music & Acting

Timestamps: 60:23–68:21

• New Mixtape ‘Resurrection’: Made with Timbaland entirely by sending files back and forth, reflecting her DIY artistic approach.
  • “We made this full project, even like, probably 10 more songs along with this in two months. All not in person.” (62:29)
• Acting in ‘Strong’: Shares excitement about filming in Cape Town and performing her own stunts—she’s a self-proclaimed adrenaline junkie.
  • “I loved the role of Layla. It was also the mess... I'm an adrenaline junkie for real.” (67:50–68:07)

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9. Wisdom, Mental Health, and Life Lessons

Timestamps: 69:20–72:09

• Letting Go of Being a Burden: Reflects on therapy and her “stepping on your toe” analogy for not internalizing blame and focusing on intention, not perfection.
  • Chloe: “I'm really sorry I stepped on your toe... I can't promise it won't happen again... That's how I've been approaching life now.” (70:27–70:51)
• Growth & Resilience: The conversation ends with gratitude, mutual support between women, and the importance of continuing self-discovery with each new year and experience.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Chloe on staying true to herself:
  “Don’t dumb yourselves down for the world. Let the world catch up to you.” — advice from Beyoncé (13:37)
• On self-worth:
  “You can control people and confine them when they don't know how special they are. You can keep them trapped in that box.” (37:10)
• On boundaries:
  “If you care a little less, it'll get quieter and smaller and you won’t even notice it.” (50:45)
• On relationship red flags:
  “Sometimes people like to humble you… in very subtle, small ways. It's like, is this my lover or hater?” (53:36)
• On celebrating wins:
  “When I had that moment at the VMAs, I just literally broke down crying on the side of the stage because it was like, I got to prove it to myself that I was good enough.” (36:09)
• On redefining success:
  “Now I walk into spaces with a different sense of gratitude, a different sense of appreciation.” (45:31)

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Episode Structure

• [02:00–06:38] — Birthday reflections, manifesting, and mood boards
• [06:44–17:53] — Early music journey, sisterhood, and dynamics with Halle
• [18:14–24:47] — Handling comparisons, representation, and artistic joy
• [24:47–36:08] — Going solo, “Have Mercy,” responding to criticism, and self-empowerment
• [36:10–46:33] — Career setbacks, mental health, and perspective shifts
• [49:00–51:01] — Learning to say no, people-pleasing, and boundaries
• [51:01–60:23] — Relationship red flags, cheating stories, and deal-breakers
• [60:23–68:21] — New mixtape with Timbaland, creative process, and acting in “Strong”
• [69:20–72:09] — Therapy, emotional resilience, and life lessons

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Tone & Takeaways

The tone is honest, playful, and empowering. Chloe brings vulnerability and humor, sharing specific stories and broader reflections that resonate with listeners seeking inspiration around identity, relationships, and personal success. Both she and Alex reinforce messages of self-acceptance, the critical importance of support systems, and the value of redefining what makes life and career meaningful—especially for women in the public eye.

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Want more?
Follow Chloe Bailey’s music and acting projects, and stay tuned for more open, witty conversations on Call Her Daddy every Wednesday. Join the Daddy Gang @callherdaddy.

Transcript

[A]

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines. Everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every get ready with me. Think summery fragrances like Kayali eden plush pear 23 eau de parfum Next level makeup. The skincare that keeps you glowing like it's your full time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffers. Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so you're angry. You're like, I am busy. I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious [e-mail] call her daddy is brought to you by Macy's. Guys, we are officially kind of nearing the second half of summer and there's a certain feeling I feel like that arrives in July, right? Summer is still here, but you can feel the season beginning to shift. And before it slips away, Macy's is here to help you make the most of every last summer moment. Whether it's a spontaneous getaway or an end of summer gathering, Macy's has everything you need in one place. If you're already thinking ahead, discover back to school, back to college, fall fashion and beauty essentials to ease into the next season on your own terms. Shop now in store or@macy's.com what is up Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Chloe Bailey, welcome to coloraddy.

[B]

I'm so happy to be here with you.

[A]

I have been so excited to meet you. We, I feel like as a collective to the world kind of became like okay, knowing of you at when you were 13 years old. Yeah, that is young.

[B]

Very.

[A]

You're 13. You're singing covers on YouTube. You're going viral. And then casually you and your sister like have Grammy nominations underneath your belt, like casual. And then you also have a complete successful solo career. Thank you and you're an actress and you're doing it all. So I'm excited to talk to you.

[B]

I'm so happy to talk to you. Thanks for having me.

[A]

Also, I realized that this is going to come out, I think, on your birthday.

[B]

On my birthday. July 1st. Boo, boo, boo, boo. I'll be 28. Like, 28. How are you feeling of eating it down?

[A]

Okay. Is that what we're calling it?

[B]

Yes, 28. I'm even getting myself a cake that says 20 80.

[A]

Tell me how you're feeling.

[B]

I'm feeling really good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like before, like, top of the year, I was like, I'm getting a little up there.

[A]

But I'm like, you know what?

[B]

I am feeling really good. I've been working my ass off, and I'm like, seeing the fruits of my labor, but I'm also realizing what's important and what's not and what makes me the happiest. And I'm feeling pretty good. I'm healing. I am doing self work.

[A]

So this is like a birthday celebration.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Also, I love how you're like, I'm getting up there. 28 is so young.

[B]

But I'm two years from 30 and 30 is not old.

[A]

I know, but I'm 30.

[B]

Flirty and thriving.

[A]

I get it. But we convince ourselves that we're old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you, like, sit with your parents or something and you're like, oh, I still have a long way to go.

[B]

I feel old when I watch, like, the reality TV shows. Like, I'm 22. I'm 21. But I feel mentally 21.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Even 19.

[A]

Well, you look perfect.

[B]

And no makeup. I look like 16. 15. People are like, oh, you're so kind. Like, I was on Rodale shopping and she's like, your mother raised you so well.

[A]

How old are you, Julie? I'm in high school.

[B]

I was like, I'm 27. She goes, and that it happens all the time.

[A]

It's so crazy how women, we just. It's like the understandable, constant fixation on what age we are.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And then, like, it slowly is nice. I will say I remember when I turned 30 and I was like, okay, actually, everything. I'm alive, I'm breathing. Everything's actually feels like it's still only getting better. Like, this is a good sign because we think as we're getting older, we're

[B]

like, it'll decline, but it's only, like, getting better.

[A]

Yes. Do we have birthday party plans?

[B]

So I really want to be in St. Lucia for my Birthday. And I'm obsessed with the water. I'm a water baby. I love the ocean, I love swimming. And I haven't jumped off a boat in a long time. So that's what I will be doing when this comes out.

[A]

Jumping off boats.

[B]

Yes. And then I'll prove pictures if I

[A]

actually did it perfect. Okay. I know you're someone that kind of manifests. Is there anything we're manifesting for 28

[B]

just to be a better human being? Anything that, you know, because hurt people, hurt people. So anything that might be in the tuck somewhere, I want to get rid of that. That's what I. That's what I wanted.

[A]

I also love how I feel like you are someone that when you manifest, it happens because you basically manifested getting signed to Beyonce's label at a young age and it happened.

[B]

Let me tell you, I wish I had my positivity and confidence that had when I was younger, because it's true. Anything I put on my mood board, any, like, I would tell because I was like, number one beehive. I would tell H, I would tell everybody, we're going to be the first artist signed to Beyonce. And she used to say, this is how you know I'm true beehive. She used to say how she was going to sign a boy band and I was like, no, she's going to sign us. H, she's going to sign us. We're going to be the first. And I would just always say that.

[A]

And literally it happened.

[B]

And then it happened. And then I even put like Grammys on the mood board. I put a script next to Donald Glover's face years ahead. Because I loved Atlanta, I put. So many different things have come true from those. And now as we get older, we kind of get a little jaded. Little.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We kind of erode away little by little. So of course self doubt creeps in. But if I had, you know, the belief that I had, I'm sure a lot of things would come quicker.

[A]

Do we still have a mood board to this day?

[B]

Oh, yes. I do it more for, like, artistic vision.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Aesthetic, yes, aesthetic. Like, I made like six or seven for my third album that hasn't come out yet. But, like, I already knew what I wanted it to say. And so I. I was with my family. It was over, like holiday break and I just had like 15 magazines and I was just. It. It's nice.

[A]

I, like, I need to go home and make a mood board. Also to anyone else, like, go home, make a mood board and like, put Beyonce on it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, maybe.

[B]

And just looking at her will embody, like, confidence. Yes, Can.

[A]

Okay, we need to go back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You. That's not the first time you met her. You're three years old. Which is this, like, kind of a crazy story. You're three years old.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And you played a younger version of Beyonce's character in a movie. So technically you met her when you were three. Yeah. Do you? Because I know three is so young. Do you have any stories that anyone has told you from that time in your life on set?

[B]

I faintly remember. I have a pretty good memory from when I was that age, which is weird.

[A]

Tell us.

[B]

But for me, there was one of my favorite, like, yellow pink sunflower dresses. That's what I wore to the audition. It was my very first audition, so I was three when I auditioned. And we shot it in July. And I think it was, like, a couple days away past my birthday, so it was like top of July. That's what I remember. And I remember I used to hate mints. Right. So I started at the top of the scene, and I had a little cute boyfriend on the steps at the top. And I hated mints, so we had to wrap them in strawberry candy for me to continue filming that. I remember how disgusted I was with the mints. I remember Beyonce picking me up and holding me. And I remember fangirling, because I love Destiny's Child. Then I remember at the wrap party, because I had a little Fighting Temptations camera they gave everyone. I still remember it. She was dancing with me at the wrap party, picked me up, swung me around. Then I remember. Sorry. Now I'm five. Now I'm five. And my baby sister, Hallie, she was three. And my sister Sky, I think she was. How old was she at the time? 12. She even had a black strappy dress. See, I remember specific details. And we went to crawl. Well, my sister crawled and I. But mainly her. She started it to go see Bee. And I think she had, like, this diamond dress on at the premiere. And my sister's baby locks got caught in her hair and dress. No, her dress. Yes, those I remember specifically, and I will never forget.

[A]

You have a really good memory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So after that moment, you're 10 and your sister's 8. When you guys start uploading covers to YouTube. Whose idea was that?

[B]

It was our older sister, Skies. And any. Like, we were singing around Atlanta in our church dresses, at clubs, at venues, at anything we could be at. And this was around the time when Justin Bieber was popping on YouTube. I think Grayson Chance was popping off of YouTube. So sky was like, hey, maybe you guys should post stuff on YouTube. And, you know, other little people around Atlanta were like, yeah, that'd be a good idea. We were always like, no, no. And, of course, best thing I never had came out. We were seeing it around the house. We were like, this is the one. This was around the time where we had to burn the instrumental on a cd. We had to put it in a stereo. It was red and black. Plug it in, put it in there. We had the camera. Sky had to press play with her toe while she did the camera. And sis and I, we put on our dressiest shirts because we're showing up and showing out on YouTube. We ended up having to change it to more simpler tank tops. And that is the rough imaging that you see of Chloe and Halle really doing the thing, the video.

[A]

I watched them again this morning just so I could, like, relive it. And the videos are so precious, and it's so OG YouTube. It makes it even better. Like, I forgot how just genuine and organic the Internet used to feel. It really felt like just like a home video, right? And then your cover of Pretty Hurts gets 23 million views on YouTube. And maybe more importantly, it gets Ms. Beyonce's attention.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

What do you do?

[B]

I was freaking out, jumping up and down, screaming. We get a response. They were like, bet. So maybe it took about a month. We ended up seeing be in a warehouse, Sis and I. It was dark. I think she was shooting some commercial. It was dark. She was in this white jumpsuit, looked like an angel. And, you know, she saw the picture that we had when I was 4, and I think she's, like, early 20s. And, yeah, she was like, oh, my gosh. And it was like a sign. And then she told us before she wanted to sign us. Ms. Tina sent her the video and was like, you need to sign these girls. And she was like, mom, I already did.

[A]

It's too good. Also, like, the warehouse and her looking angelic and getting to see her in her element. When you got that recognition from her, what do you think that changed within you and your sister from just being like, okay, we're singing YouTube covers to, like, Beyonce Knowles is acknowledging our existence not only, but also blessing us and saying, you are talented.

[B]

It felt like a. You know, when you're younger and you don't really know all that you have to do, it felt like the I made it moment in that time.

[A]

And, like, little did you know how much more you Were gonna go on to do. But in that moment, it was so validating.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Then you guys casually end up opening for her formation world tour. That is. That doesn't even go on people's mood board, because that's not like the stadium

[B]

was on the mood board.

[A]

Beyonce is selling out stadiums. How big of crowds had you even performed for prior to that same.

[B]

Oh, nowhere near that. Are you kidding? And it was the Europe leg, and it was just. I had my beat machine. It was so hot sometimes during the summer that it would overheat and it wouldn't work, and that I was triggering our songs from there. We had some tacky outfits, but we were performing our little hearts out. We did not care. Dancing, choreography, everything. Halle had her guitar. We were giving it our all.

[A]

I think also, the trajectory from YouTube to then working with someone like Beyonce, like, that is the dream of all dreams. Were you nervous to be in front of such, like, huge stadium? Kidding me.

[B]

I still get nervous. I have bad nerves even to this day, But I feel like I'm an adrenaline junkie, and it's kind of fun in the moment. It feels like you're paralyzed. Like, it gets so bad for me to the point of, like, wanting to throw up. Like, I remember there was this BET performance. I had to honor Usher, and it was a good kisser. And I'm in my bedazzled jumpsuit, and I'm, like, bent over. So there's this stool that I had to start, you know, perched up on. But before they opened up, you know, the stuff, the platforms or whatever, I'm sitting there doubled over, like, because I can't stand straight without falling over. And then all of a sudden, the song comes on, and I'm going boom, boom, boom.

[A]

And you just turn it on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you're just, like, a real performer. Because I also think there's something weird about YouTube. Right. It's like you're in front of a camera, but there's no one behind the camera. And so it's similar to now, like. Like, people on the Internet. When you are getting famous from the Internet, no one is in the room with you. And then when you actually have to go meet people and perform live, There is this element that you have to retrain your body to be like, oh, my God. I'm not just doing it for the Internet anymore. I'm doing it for the world. And now I'm doing it in a stadium with Beyonce coming out after us. No pressure. Yeah. Is there any advice that she gave you in those early days that has just like stuck with you throughout your career.

[B]

The early advice she gave us, she used to call us her little aliens because we were so like, different and like, she would say, like, out of this world. And she would always say, you know, the world won't get it yet, but don't dumb yourselves down for the world. Let the world catch up to you. And even now as I'm 27, going on 28, it's still that way with my music. Like, I'll release it. Oh, yeah, we don't like it. Then months later, oh, this is a bop. So I'm like it. Just, just straighten your ear a little bit.

[A]

I mean, I, I think also someone in her position who has gone through so many different iterations, that's such an incredible bit of advice to give you of like, almost just like having resilience also to just be patient.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because in our careers you want to just go, go, go, especially as women. And we feel like we have this tiny window.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's like we have time.

[B]

It's so true.

[A]

What a concept. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines, everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep. Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every get ready with me. Think summery fragrances like Kayali eden plush pear 23 eau de parfum. Next level makeup. The skin care that keeps you glowing like it's your full time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffers. Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become. So you're angry. You're like, I am busy. I'm hungry. I'm getting hangry. I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffers. You can see all the delicious [e-mail]. you and your sister obviously have had so many milestones. I feel like in those very beginning days, you became almost like known as this unit, right? Yes. How would you describe your dynamic with Halle?

[B]

So I'm the cancer, she's the Aries. We are like the complete opposite, yet we are just the same. This is how I could describe it. So we have cats who are brothers, Poseidon and Apollo. They're actual brothers. And Poseidon, he's very demure, very to himself. He doesn't really like people. He likes his space. Don't bother him. Apollo, clingy all up in your face. Constant zoomies. Loves the cuddles, everything like that. So that is Haliani in cat form. Wait, wait, wait. Which.

[A]

Which one's Apollo?

[B]

Me.

[A]

Oh, man. You're saying you're clingy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want to cuddle up on your sister and, like, be near her, and she's like, leave me alone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I guess that is so you being, like, the older sister and she's the younger. She's too cool.

[B]

Yes, that is exactly us in cat form. They embodied our spirits.

[A]

You have said in the past that you've always taken on this, like, motherly role and feel really protective over Halle.

[B]

Very.

[A]

How has that shown up through your. Just, like, different stages of your lives and your career?

[B]

It's so funny because sometimes I have to tell myself, okay, Chloe, dial it back. I think because growing up in the house, ever since we were little girls, I always felt like I had to protect her. And that still hasn't gone away. And with her becoming a mother. I'm not a mom. There's a new level of life she unlocked even before I did. So I have to be like, chloe, you all have different journeys. She is raising her child. This is not. She's not your child. So I've had to do a lot of letting go because Hallie's always been my, like, my little doll baby. And I'd always put her before myself through everything in life. And so it's like I have to retrain myself to be like, okay, we're both our own individuals and our own adults. Let go, Chloe.

[A]

That is really sweet. And I think anyone who's watching who has a sister, because I do. I feel that I'm the youngest, and then my sister is the oldest. So I'm feeling that energy of, like, my sister's like that to me, too. And even though sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, leave me alone. I actually really don't know what I would do without her, because I'm like, wait, no. But it's like, I don't want you there, but, like, I know you're there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's, like, a nice feeling. I also Remember? Which makes me so sad for you guys. Like reading, you know, understandably how disturbing you found it when people would try to pit you and your sister against each other, which is. They already try to do that to women all the time, every day. But to do it also to, like, sisters, where you're like, that is my blood. Like, where are you going with this? Is pretty crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When was the first time, do you think you became aware of this?

[B]

I think after. After Best thing I never had came out, our very first cover and we got posted on World Star and you know, of course, World Star. Lethal.

[A]

Lethal. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that was the very first time. But, like, the thing that people don't realize with sis and I is that we are so different. Like, my sister, she grew up loving jazz. She still does jazz, neo soul, you know, the vibes. You know, she plays guitar. Very boho. Me, I'm like, I love the pop lock in, drop it. The heavy drums. You hear it in my production. And that's. That was the beauty of Chloe and Halle. That is what the beauty of Chloe and Halle is because we're bringing two different sides of ourselves. But I think people wanted to see either all of this side from both of us, or all of this side from both of us. And you can never please everybody. So, I mean, of course there are groups, like, all groups, you all have your favorite or whatever. But it was. It hurt us sometimes, like when we'd see certain comments, like Halle and I, we'd talk to each other like, oh, my gosh, is this true about me? And. And then she'll say, is this true about me? And we'd be like, no, it's not. And it's like we'd have to uplift each other. I mean, even today, like, they'll say I do too much or like, my sister does the opposite or things like that. But that's the beauty of us. We're like fire and water.

[A]

Did they ever go for. Was it just like, career? Do they ever go for your looks or your.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, we're two black girls with locks in the industry. It's not. I mean, now it's becoming more mainstream, and I'm really happy to see that. I really am. But, like, it wasn't cool. Cool to be young black with short little locks. Like, I remember sometimes being in school. Like, it's funny. There's a self portrait of me. I was four and you had to do a self portrait. And I drew myself. Like, I had, like, this straight ponytail. And I'M like, chloe, now I can laugh at it. But it's funny how we see ourselves when we look at our friends and we're like, that's what I'm supposed to look like. That's what I'm supposed to be like. So we definitely had to pull our self confidence from inside because it wasn't that accepted. And even like when we would go on auditions when we were younger in Atlanta, our acting agents would be like, oh, you know, you might get more roles if you have regular hair. So we even invested in getting these terrible lace front, like really curly wigs. And I remember I even went to school orientation in it. They were like, oh my gosh, your locs. I said, yeah, I combed them out. Then a week later, it was first day of school, I was back with my locs and I was like, I put them back in now, child. It's so funny. But yeah, those are different things we went through. And I remember I went through a time, I think maybe 18, 19, before I started really styling my locks in different ways. I was like, I want to get rid of my hair. Like, I want to switch it up. But then I got introduced to wrapping my locks because I won't ever dye it because it'll kind of break them off and like adding hair and things like that. And I love my locks. I'll never change them.

[A]

Well, first of all, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, because you're right, like hearing that also from young kids your same age. I cannot imagine being in a position where you are authentically showing up as yourself and you are being judged for something that is just who you are. And something you're like, wait, I can't

[B]

control little children as little children. That's what gets me, right?

[A]

And then to look for a solution because had those people not gotten involved, you would have just still thought, I'm beautiful and I'm with my sister. And when I'm in my household, I feel so confident. Like that's the part of when you're a child and you're put into those situations with other peers, it starts to be this like horrible self doubt that you have and you're so critical of yourself. And it takes a really long time, I'm sure, to then get to the point where you're like, wait, maybe I am okay as I am.

[B]

Yes, you don't need outer validation, but

[A]

it doesn't make it easy, you know,

[B]

because you're growing up thinking that your self worth is dependent on what you can do and what you bring.

[A]

Do you think, though, it made it. It easier having you and your sister be together in that situation?

[B]

We clung so tight to each other, and we weren't alone. Like, we weren't going through the criticism, even the positivity alone. Like, we were rejoicing together, and we had a partner to celebrate with and even cry with.

[A]

I'm also thinking, too, about, you know, coming up, like, you're having such success because you're naturally talented. And then I do feel like we hear about this often becoming in this industry, everyone wants you to have a very recognizable image. Right. And you're talking about, like, as a young black girl, like, I'm trying to figure out who I am and then add on. Also, being in the entertainment industry adds another level of complexity because everyone's going to try to change you regardless.

[B]

Regardless.

[A]

So it's like, how did you work through the essentially dichotomy of, like, merging two worlds from already struggling with something and then it blowing up even more as people were like, we need you to look like this. We need you to pose like this.

[B]

I think the care and the love for the art overshadowed all of that. So the joy that we felt when we were creating, the joy when I'd be nerding out by my computer with my beats to, like, 4 in the morning in, like, our garage studio, the joy of listening to it back, the joy of knowing that we did have fans because at this moment, we're very underground. Like, we're like two black indie girls at this moment. So the joy of that, the love of it, that is what overpowered it all.

[A]

I also love what you, you know, were saying where you have people comparing you and this is your sister, and you're like, we are so different, but in the best ways. That's what makes us us. And then eventually you do decide to go and explore a solo career. Was there any part of you guys that had conversations of, like, what will the world think? Because are we almost like. Like, is this gonna fuel more rumors?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. So the funny thing is that it was never planned. And. And we're not broken up. We're just, like, on a cute little hiatus. And my sister booked the Little Mermaid as Ariel.

[A]

Yes, she did.

[B]

And she had to move to London. She ended up filming it for about three years because it was in the middle of COVID So we had our album on Godly Hour done. We had the visual shot and everything, but we didn't have a release date. So Then SIS went off to London, and we didn't know when we'd ever put out the project. So Covid happens, she comes back home, we get a release date. So then we started doing tennis court performances and everything during COVID and Ungodly hour. Kind of took our group to the next level. So it was never planned in that time to, like, kind of go like that. But of course, during the pandemic, it's hard to travel. I couldn't even visit her in London after that because of all the travel restrictions. So I'm just with my little beat machine in my bedroom, just making ideas. You know, I'm not with my other half. So I'm like, okay, this is three years.

[A]

I'm like, okay, had that been the longest you'd been apart also?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We wouldn't.

[A]

We didn't.

[B]

Yeah, we didn't even spend a week apart. And when she first went to London, I went out there with her for two months because she's like, chloe, I don't think I could be without you. So I went out there, and anytime she'd go to set, you know, with rehearsals, I'd work out with her in the morning with her trainer. And then I'd be in her trailer the whole day while she was rehearsing. And I'd just be making beats in the trailer until it's time for her to come and we go home. Yeah. And the days I didn't go, I would do Soul Cycle, but that was, like, maybe once or twice. But I would always go to set with her just so she knew I was there when she'd come in for lunch. Things like that.

[A]

You are such a ride or die.

[B]

That's when the idea came out. Like, okay, I'm making all these ideas. Maybe I should just put it out. Because I'm just like, like, building and accumulating all this music throughout three years. So this opportunity for this, like, it was Juneteenth. Actually, Juneteenth is a special time for me. I mean, anyways, come to think of it. So I wanted to do a cover of Feeling Good by Nina Simone. I love Nina Simone. I always have, since I was a little girl. I think that's where I get, like, my lower tone register inspo from her and Toni Braxton. Love it. So you know me with my little electronics, I did it from. You know, I wanted to use my backgrounds almost like a synth. And of course, heavy 808's gotta have that. It's a little weird alternative. I turned it in. They're like, oh, you want to do this late night performance of it? I was like, sure, yeah. We didn't have a place for the late night performance, so this would have been my first performance without my sister. I'm like, hold on, wait a minute now the two of us, between the two of us, I really love dancing. Like all of our ungodly hour performances and everything. Because we couldn't see a choreographer. I would come up with the dance moves and I'd teach it to her. So we had like our little dance studio in the house. So I was like, okay, Chlo, what am I going to do? So I was like, I want to dance for this performance. So I practiced. I even sprained the left side of my neck because I wanted to really just do whatever the heck on the floor. I was like, let's just do it. Let's just go all out. And, you know, I shot the performances and we didn't really have a place for it. And they're like, oh, well, it's gonna go on the Juneteenth special. I think it was NBC, one of those, like, news once. I'm like. Because it was a little, you know, but at that moment, it was already shot. Money had been spent.

[A]

You're like, we can't.

[B]

I was like, I'm still proud of my performance. Yeah, it was meant for late night.

[A]

Yeah, it wasn't really meant for, like, daytime television. The. The moms in America just being like, yeah.

[B]

But I was like, you know what? It's already done. So it airs a huge uproar.

[A]

This is too sexy.

[B]

This that. Mind you, I'm fully clothed. But yes, I was gyrating around. I'm not gonna lie, it's not for daytime television. But, you know, I'm moving. I was just really giving it my all. So it made this huge uproar online. And I'm like, whoa. And anytime I would post, you know, myself or my body or anything like that, they would freak the heck out. And I was like, why? At this moment, I think I'm 21. Like, I'm like, I don't get the big deal, why everyone's freaking out. So this performance freaked everyone out. I was getting so much, so much. I ended up getting this beat because I was posting my beats on my Instagram at the time from murder beats. He DM'd me. Yo, let's make some beats together. I was like, bet. Mind you, I would never answer dms cuz there are a lot of creeps up in there. So I'm like, But he was really about the music. That's how I got Metro's contact too. They were really about the music. So Murder had sent me about 10 beats at this time. He sent me this one, Booty so big. Lord have mercy. I'm like, oh, I like this. I'm even getting chills talking about it. I still remember I was in my car listening to it. I turned it off because if I hear it, my mind will immediately start coming up with creative ideas and it won't shut off. So if I know I like a beat, I'll turn it off until I'm ready to create. And I was like, I really want to talk my shit on this. It's talking about booty so big. But I don't really know if I had the balls to write like that yet. So this guy, T. Ron, amazing writer, has written so many hits. It was our first session together. It was me having my engineer, he comes in and, you know, he's like, what are you going through right now? And I ended up saying, you know, I'm really upset because people aren't letting me be me and the body that I have. Like, first they tell me, oh, she's amazing. She's being restricted. Then they tell me, oh, she's showing her body too much, all of this. And I was like, I really just want to use this song to just get my feelings out and talk my shit. We wrote it that day, the scratch demo. Then I ended up actually re cutting it with just me and my engineer. And I added my backgrounds and everything like that. And I was like, gosh darn it, this feels really great. I knew this was the first song I wanted to put out. So all this is happening all while my sister is in London.

[A]

You see the Little Mermaid and you're like, so did you see that daytime TV thing?

[B]

Yes. So all of this is happening in conjunction with one another. So it's not like I just went on my own, you know what I mean?

[A]

What did she think about the daytime television?

[B]

She was like, chloe, it's great.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Yes, that moves. We were on FaceTime and, you know, she had her cute little extensions, the red. And you know, she'd always wear head scarves because she couldn't show that she had the red hair because no one really knew what her look would be. She's like, oh, girl.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Just like that. So it was really great because at that time, I'm working with Murder, I'm working with Metro, I'm working with all these Heavy hitters in terms of production. I'm like, they respect my work. They respect what I do. Like, and it was my first time actually believing in myself as my own because I didn't think I had worth or value without my sister. So even now, like, because we were like this, it's you. It's like, you know, you're special. Because I can look over at my sister, and I know she has a phenomenal voice. I know she's beautiful, but it's harder to look in the mirror and say those things to yourself.

[A]

Yeah. It's almost like you guys had each other as this crutch.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That you came up in this industry together. So to remove that, you're like, wait,

[B]

what am I without her?

[A]

Where's Halle? And it's like, no. No time for you both to soar and fly on your own. And you're, like, still grabbing for each other, but it's like you're getting farther away. And it's like, yeah, go do your thing. I'm gonna do my thing, and we'll meet back up later.

[B]

Yeah. Very scary. But what I loved about those lyrics, it was like, why do I keep bossing like I do, Flossing like I do? And I was just. I was talking my shit. Like, you know, he liked my Laffy Taffy. Because all these guys were online talking about my body or whatever. I'm not all my body. Yes. That's a part of me. But I'm this nerd, really smart, funny girl. But, yeah, I'm showing a little booty. And what about it?

[A]

And what about it?

[B]

Yes. So I was really. That's what it was. So I put that out on my birthday. It goes viral. Everyone's doing the challenge, the booty so big. Lord have mercy. The song isn't even out. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Because my sister and I, we weren't mainstream. We were like indie underground girls. So I wasn't expecting much from this going. 100,000, 200,000 videos, 300,000 friends.

[A]

I'm like, whoa.

[B]

So now everyone's like, put it out. Put it out, Put it out. So I put this song out through Columbia that we were assigned to, you know, in conjunction with Parkwood, and we release it, I think, September 5th. And because the song was so viral, VMAs called and asked me to perform even before it dropped. So I'm in New Jersey rehearsing for my very first debut performance. This is crazy. For my very first debut performance. And the day the video drops, we're sitting on the ground in rehearsal and it like had 4 million in one night. It was just everywhere.

[A]

Hearing you talk about making a moment for yourself and going for something you love. And like, you saying, like, you're such a creative. You hear something, you're like, I need to get. I have a vision. I want to do it. But leaning into the commentary about your looks in your body, I think as women, it's so relatable. It's like, if I. I'm gonna call it what it is, and I want to own it. Because you're. Why do you all get to talk about it, but I can't talk about it? Let make it make sense.

[B]

Thank you. You get to tell me, oh, she got a nice ass. But I can't go in the mirror

[A]

and go, I got a nice ass. So, like, why can you? It's like everyone feels like they have ownership over women's bodies and except the

[B]

one who owns it.

[A]

Chloe. No, no, no. We're on to something here. Chloe. No, no. And it's. It's so infuriating. And so I remember, because I'd written down, like, I remember when people called you, like, too sexy, and they were insinuating that you're using your sexuality to force a rebrand. And it's like, wait a second. Who was the person that sexualized me in the first place? All of you. And so here I am now, celebrating

[B]

myself, who I am. I'm coming into my own.

[A]

And now it's upsetting everyone. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know why it made such a big deal. Because I have. I'm in this skin all my life. And to be honest, like, we can like ourselves, but it's hard to really dive into the self love thing. So for me, I just. I was confused. I was like, whoa, what is happening? So when that happened, it was like almost taking something bad and making it good. And because of all that negativity, I got my first platinum single. My debut solo single turned platinum.

[A]

Yes, you did.

[B]

And that's insane because even talking about it now, that's a huge debut. And I think I have to remember that and celebrate myself in the times where I don't feel like I'm good enough.

[A]

I think that is so relatable as women where we. I was talking about this with my friend the other day. I'm like, whenever one of us has a win, why do we not pause and celebrate? Because the mood board has always been there. Like, if you told young Chloe this story, she'd be like, huh? Excuse Me? No, we can retire. We're done. That's perfect. That's. That's all we could have ever asked for. And when you're in it, it's so hard.

[B]

It's like, where can I go to next?

[A]

And we're so hard on ourselves. And so the fact. Yes, you could. Let's take a moment right now where it's like, look at what you did in that moment. From that young girl on YouTube to then having that moment with mercy.

[B]

You're like, it was crazy.

[A]

Platinum.

[B]

And after the VMAs performance, I just broke down crying on the side of the stage. And that Halle even came back from London, so she was there. All my family was there. My godmom, my godbrother, my younger brother. We were all there. And. And I just broke down on the side of the stage because there were so many people who told me I couldn't do it, that I wasn't good as a solo artist, people that I knew personally would tell me that. And I just really didn't feel like I was worth much. So to know that I had that moment at the VMAs, I just literally broke down crying on the side of the stage because it was like, I got to prove it to myself that I was good enough.

[A]

Chloe, that makes. I mean, there's so much that you're saying that I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. For women. And I wonder if you have any just, like, opinion or take now of where you're sitting and looking back on yourself, like, why do you think people are so uncomfortable when a woman, especially a black woman, is so confident in who she is as a person and her sexuality?

[B]

Because there's too much power in that. You can control people and confine them. When they don't know how special they are. You can keep them trapped in that box.

[A]

It's so true. It's like there's two. They don't want us to recognize our worth, because once we do. I saw something where people like, oh, my God, the older women get. They. Although they're devaluing us, we actually only become more cognizant of, like, who we are and what we want. And so they act like we're only worthy at 18 and 19 and 20, when really they know that's just the. Like, when we're the most vulnerable and the brink of it. Right? And so to hear you lean in to your success and your power in that moment and to see it go platinum, like, that's so rewarding.

[B]

I'm so it's so crazy to think about.

[A]

It's incredible.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

In the midst of all of this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You said that being in the spotlight for most of your life made you tie your happiness to your career and your public perception. When do you think you came to that realization?

[B]

Years ago. But even more so now, Like I'm such a huge advocate for therapy and I say this all the time. Like we're taught to work out and work on our bodies and watch what we eat, but our mind is a muscle just the same and we have to do that as well. There might be some unhabits we have to learn. We might have to figure out how to squat the proper way mentally so we don't hurt ourselves, things like that. But I think because I started at so young, it's like, it's rewarding when you get an applause for hitting the right note. It's rewarding when you bring in some money for this deal. It's rewarding. But that's not what's all that special about you.

[A]

It's a great point. So do you think a couple years ago, what was there a moment or was it kind of creeping up on you where you're like, why am I feeling this way?

[B]

I think it's, it creeps up on you. And even now I'm very cognizant about it. Like I don't think that ever goes away. It's hard to unlearn something that has been your blueprint your entire life. But I think when you surround people, surround yourself with people who don't need a damn thing from you, you realize, wait, you actually keep me around because you like me as a person, not because of what I can do for you. So for me it's very freeing and I think that's when you get closer to the self love journey.

[A]

But what I can feel behind that right now, when you just are getting a little emotional, is it takes though realizing, oh, you're so priest of those kind of people because you had the other kind of person in your life. Yeah. Who was using you or made you feel like, oh my God, my, my worth is all wrapped up in what I bring to the table. And so I have to work and I have to work and I need to succeed. And I need to succeed because if all this goes away, all these people will go away and then what am I worth exactly? How did getting stuck into that cycle, a little bit of like your career and it really getting enmeshed with your self worth, start to affect your mental health?

[B]

I Think when it started to affect my mental health was around when I after the have mercy success. I have all these eyes on me and I think because people were waiting on what I was going to do next and everyone around me was like, no, we have to make sure the next one's perfect. So even though I was creating music, we waited like eight months till I put out my next single, which if I could rewind it, I would have just kept the momentum going because it's hard to build it back up. So I think when I actually released my first album and it didn't sell the great amount that people wanted to, but it's the normal amount Today, it was 10k. Everyone was shunning me. I was like, oh my gosh, am I not as great as I thought? Or everyone thought, like they thought I was going to be this big thing. So it was around the same time. The best thing that my manager Shermet could have done was book a tour for me a week after the album came out. And that was at that time. It was kind of unheard of. No one goes on tour to tour an album. Nobody knows. So as I'm on tour, as I'm in press interviews, they're like, oh, how do you feel about the low selling numbers, all this stuff, blah, blah, blah. But then the first night, everyone knows the songs word for word. I'm like, hold on. Meet and greets. The whole tour was sold out. So I'm like, wait, I'm confused. Let's see this online. Then I see this in real life, what's happening. And I think it was really getting to me. I think it was the show before Philly and I always get nervous before every performance. This specific show, I think it had gotten to me and I was just like, you know what? And that show, I had no nerves. It was like I was watching it happen in front of me in the audience. And I was watching my body and my arms and my legs and seeing everything happening in front of me, but I wasn't there. And I hope she doesn't mind me saying this after that. I go backstage. Sheree is my manager. I call her mommy because she's my godmom. She takes me to the dressing room in the back. I think it was like two of like the glam team were back there. She goes, looks me Sierra. She goes, chloe, if I ever see you like that again, I'm a fuck you up. Don't ever let no motherfuckers take your joy from you. Something that God gave you that gift, if I ever see you like that again. So from that day, she would always be at the front of the stage because I was just not there. I just was like, okay, I don't feel that strong enough mentally to give off to perform songs that people say, oh, it didn't sell well, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So that's when I attached it to my self worth. But then I was like, wait. And after that, it marked from Philly to the rest of the tour. I was on cloud nine and it didn't really matter.

[A]

First of all, thank you for sharing that, because I think something that is really difficult to talk about, especially with social media these days, is what does success actually look like? And when we look at social media, we are inundated with, they got the job, they sold, they went platinum.

[B]

Or like, people see you in public and they go, what are you up to? Yes, what you up to?

[A]

Exactly. Like, living, trying to be like, get my mental health together, like, leave me alone. But it's. There's so much that we are seeing constantly of people's wins that when you are having what you would consider, like, oh, I actually think this would have been good. But I guess by that standard it's not great and therefore it's complete failure. Like, we've lost the barometer, I genuinely believe, of, like, what success actually looks like for ourselves. And the fact that like, you're on stage, you are on tour, you are performing, that seems very successful to me. But understandably, you're like, oh, my God. But everyone had this idea of what I was supposed to be doing. Yes, but that wasn't your path at that moment. And like, and this is still a win.

[B]

And I look back at videos and I'm like, oh, my God, I missed tour. But I wish I appreciated it more in the moment because I was so in my head. And now I'm watching videos, I'm like, oh, I was getting it. So that's what I. Now I am learning to be more present in the moments because tomorrow isn't promised. All of these moments are fleeting. Sometimes I'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. Press book back to back. There are some days there's nothing. It's like, oh, I missed that. So now I walk into spaces with a different sense of gratitude, a different sense of appreciation and knowing that this is my job. And yes, I'm happy this is here. But the same people cheering me on now, they were quiet a month or two ago, so that shouldn't really validate.

[A]

Me.

[B]

Because it's a facade.

[A]

Right. It's gonna come and go. Yeah. How do you feel? What. What. What makes you feel fulfilled? And when you're looking back at yourself and you're realizing, how was I not happy in that moment?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When that should have been such a great moment. Yeah. It's almost. You have to start re regulating how you operate and look at success for yourself. And I think that applicable to everyone probably watching the show of, like, whether it's your job or your family or your relationship, like, we get so in our head comparing everything around us that it's like, girl, you're missing the moment.

[B]

It's so true. And I used to. This is how I know I've gotten thicker skin. I used to, like, crumble with people online about me. All this stuff when people talk or have a discourse. Now I'm like, thank you so much for giving me great interaction and engagement. Thank you.

[A]

Because you're impenetrable now.

[B]

Yes. And guess what? You're running my numbers up. Brands. See that? Are you putting bread into my account by talking shit?

[A]

Like, no, it's just like a comment is a comment.

[B]

I'm grateful you have me trending. Oh, baby.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. That's how I look at it now. Like, people could be tearing my name down and I'm like, I'll be home. Like, yeah.

[A]

Call her Daddy Is brought to you by Airbnb. So sports are usually Matt's territory, but when it comes to soccer, you guys know. You know what? I'm all over it. So safe to say I am very excited for the FIFA World cup coming to la. The last time I went to a global sporting event was during the Olympics. And honestly, the trip became so much more than just going to different games in Paris. I just remember Matt and I ended up booking the cutest apartment one weekend on Airbnb to explore different parts of France. One night, after dinner, instead of. I remember rushing home, we stopped into this tiny little local bar, ended up sitting next to a couple from. I think they were from Madrid. And we just started talking and somehow found out that they also worked together. And they had golden doodles. And we were like, oh, my God, this is meant to be. And then when Matt and I got back to the apartment that night, we opened a bottle of wine, sat on the balcony talking for hours about all of the random moments that. That somehow end up becoming the best part of traveling. It was one of those trips where you come home and you just feel like you actually lived in a Space instead of just visiting it. And that is what I love so much about Airbnb. During the FIFA World cup, people from all corners of the world come together. They're swapping jerseys, grabbing drinks after the match, maybe debating who actually has the best goalie, like, whatever it is. And Airbnb makes it easy to stay together under one roof.

[B]

Roof.

[A]

You get to live in neighborhoods that actually feel local and experience a city beyond just the tourist spots. Airbnb, the world is meant to meet. Call her Daddy is brought to you by Tinder. When you're into someone on Tinder, you start picking up on the little cues, like casually asking their birthday so you can look up their zodiac sign or hearing a song they love and thinking, okay, wait, this actually tells me a lot about you. That's why Tinder has astrology mode and music mode. It's an easy way to break the ice and start the conversation. Daddy gang, explore all the possibilities for yourself. Tinder. It starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today must be 18 plus. In a past interview, you referenced reaching a point where you just wanted to say no. Can you share what you mean by that and what was going on?

[B]

I'm a people pleaser. I don't like people being upset with me. I don't like knowing people think I did something wrong to them. I just love to people please. And sometimes when you people please, you leave yourself out, darling. And I've learned it's okay to say no. It's okay to say, hell no. It's okay to say, I'm not feeling that right now. Maybe come back to me next week. But I think because I've been such a people pleaser all of my life, when I did start vocalizing and standing up for myself, people were like, whoa, who is this? And as a woman, you should be able to speak your mind without being labeled as the B word.

[A]

Well, that's what I was going to ask you. Like, how did you navigate that? Because I think that's where all of us struggle, where it's like, oh, my God, she's finally standing up for herself. And what should be celebrated is actually a lot of people who have been able to weaponize your people pleasing to their ability of, oh, my gosh, I'm getting more out of her. I'm doing all this. And the minute you actually put boundaries up to them, they're like, she's such a now.

[B]

Yeah. It's like they'll. If you think about it like this, they're taking rocks and pebbles and throwing it at you, and the second we pick it back up to throw it back at them, it's like, oh, oh, my God.

[A]

And you're like, what you've been doing this whole time?

[B]

Here's a taste of your medicine, babes.

[A]

Huh? Interesting. Yes. Did you. But did you worry, though, like, as a woman, like, they're getting labeled, that how have you navigated being more in your power and owning it and trying to not people, please. Without fear of judgment from other people?

[B]

I just am learning to care less. It won't erase anyone's reaction, but if you care a little less, it'll get quieter and smaller and you won't even notice it. So if you don't notice it, it's invisible. You don't see it, you don't hear it.

[A]

It's a great point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. A few years ago, you talked about how hard it is to accept love from others when you don't fully love yourself first. Looking back, let's talk about romantic life. How do you think that affected past relationships that you've been in?

[B]

I think to be able to properly love someone, you have to do the proper self work or you will love them in an unhealthy way. Because you're loving yourself in an unhealthy way. So you're only doing what you know. You know, I think the hard thing, too, is, like, dating in the public eye. Anybody I would stand next to or be next to. Oh, this is who she's dating. This is her man. This is this. And it makes it hard, too. And then you'll go out to events, and the guy's like, oh, you're with this person. It's like, huh, I don't know him. So then sometimes it'll block. And I'm like, I be. Gosh darn it.

[A]

You're like, that's not my man. And I don't claim that energy. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So sometimes that's frustrating.

[A]

But what is something that you used to put up with that you would never put up with anymore in romantic relationships?

[B]

Disrespect. Disrespect. Yeah. You're getting blocked.

[A]

Oh, we're hitting them with a full block.

[B]

Oh, yes. I'm great at it.

[A]

Give me an example of disrespect. Hmm.

[B]

Like talking out of turn. Like, if you speak to me in a condescending manner or as if I'm less than who you are, don't do that. And the thing is that. That I can't get punked out because I have my own. You can't punk me out, buddy. We're sitting at the same table, so treat me like a human being.

[A]

It's so crazy though, when I feel like when I was younger, the disrespect and like, making you feel less than. Sometimes it's so subtle that at first you don't really see it and it can start to wear on your self esteem. And then it takes you being like, wait. And it says sometimes it takes you getting out of the relationship to look back and be like, how long had that been happening that this person was doing this to me? But then the next relationship you get in, your antennas are up a little bit more because you're like, wait a second. This is a pattern I'm recognizing from that one in the past that just did that to me. And I see this and although it's familiar and I know how to do this dance because sometimes we can, like, keep repeating. It does become more clear the more you go through the steps.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes people like to humble you.

[A]

Oh, yes, they do, Chloe.

[B]

In the very subtle small ways. And it's like, is this my lover or hater?

[A]

It's so subtle. Yes. Like, you can't. You almost couldn't sit here and give me an exact concrete it would you be like, you'd have to. I'd have to put the puzzle together for you because on this Wednesday, it was like a little comment about this and it was like a little comment about like my makeup that day. Yeah. And it was like a little backhanded, but I thought was like, oh. And then a month later, it was this.

[B]

It continues to escalate. And it's like, no, you're my biggest. I peep everything.

[A]

You're full op living in my house.

[B]

Yeah, I'll peep everything. I might not say it in the moment, but I'll just. I don't forget. I'll calculate. Wait.

[A]

On your new mixtape, resurrection, there is a song about catching someone cheating. How did you find out?

[B]

Let me tell you. So this has been a while ago, cuz I've been like on my own for a minute through dms. They'll DM my godmom, even sometimes the girls. The girls or just a random fan. And it'll be all the information. I've seen a lash extension and I didn't have them in the, like on the tile of the shower floor or like a hair tie.

[A]

This man was having sex with these women in your home?

[B]

Not my home.

[A]

Oh, but his home. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Excuse me. You don't have the Keys.

[A]

You're like, that's why we don't live together, babe.

[B]

Hair tie. That's not my hair texture.

[A]

And in those moments, Chloe, what do you do? Do you collect it as evidence, put it in a little Ziploc? Or we. Are we going out?

[B]

It depends on how I'm feeling.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Okay. And what did you do when you found the eyelash?

[B]

I kept it internal, and I took a picture of it, and I texted my godmom, and she's like, my voice of reason. Halle.

[A]

She'll have me crash out your godmom's, like, put it in the evidence file.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Get him when he least expects it. Or.

[B]

Or just walk away.

[A]

Do you think that was the same girl?

[B]

I have no idea. But I do know I peeped it and I kept it quiet till the next morning.

[A]

And then what did you.

[B]

And then I walked in the bathroom like it was brand new. Like I just saw it because I still wanted my night of cuddles.

[A]

I'm that.

[B]

I'm that toxic.

[A]

No, no, no. There is nothing better than seeing the text or seeing the evidence, and you're like, huh? And then using it to your advantage when you want to bring it up. Because now it's on your timeline, Chloe. So it's all. It's up to you. Okay. The fact, though. Hold on. You cuddled this man. And in those moments, though, this was

[B]

me looking up at the ceiling in the dark.

[A]

You're. He's, like, dead asleep, and you're like, this is me. You're like, I thought I want the cuddles, but now all I can think about is the hair tie and those lash extensions. Like, you have to bodily get to a place where you can hold that in. And then the next morning, you confronted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did he lie?

[B]

Of course. Deny, deny, deny, deny.

[A]

I do remember first, you did write music in the past about wanting to get revenge by cheating back.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Did we ever do that?

[B]

It depends on what your definition of cheating is, Chloe.

[A]

Well, give me. Give me your definition.

[B]

My definition is like, I'll just start responding to people I never responded to.

[A]

No, the literal.

[B]

And then once I'm out of it, I just won't text them back. That's my definition.

[A]

I'll be like, yeah, take that, Chloe. That is so relatable, where you're like, watch this. And then literally wake up the next morning. Like, I don't. Why did I even answer him? Yeah, like, you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get away from me. Okay, so you just need to get the rage out. I want to ask you some questions about dating. Deal breakers. Okay, I'm going to give you a scenario. So tell me you're giving this person a shot or you're breaking it off.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Your sister doesn't vibe with him.

[B]

I'll give him a shot.

[A]

Wait, older or younger sister?

[B]

Both. Okay, so we don't have a say? Even with my brothers. We don't. Like. Of course we'll say a little something, but we don't dictate. Like, we just want them to be happy. We'll just peep from afar.

[A]

Does Halle in the past have a big opinion on the guys you dated?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My sister will vocalize it louder than I would. She'll tell me, and I'll be like, oh, why do you think that I'll tell her? And she'll be like, girl, don't talk about my man like that.

[A]

And do you feel like when she says things, you probably go the opposite direction of her when she's like, I don't like this. And you're.

[B]

No, I'll just continue on the path I was going on.

[A]

Collect it as evidence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, Perfect. He says, I love you. A month in.

[B]

My first instinct is to say not, but I am a sucker for love. And a guy has said that to me a month in, and I fell for it.

[A]

Chloe, you got so happy. For a second, I was like, he loves you. And you're like, okay, wait, I have

[B]

been like, oh, my gosh. It's a little bit first sight. You just have this strong emotion towards me. Of course it's real, but that's also love bombing.

[A]

That is love. And then you're like, snap out of it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're like, but it is not. Oh, my God. Okay, so we're like, we're working on that. He says he'd rather stay in with you than go out in public.

[B]

Shocked because I'm not going out with him in public.

[A]

Love that for you. He doesn't introduce you to his family until a year into dating.

[B]

Not okay. I'm a family girl. I want to be around your family. I don't want to feel like I'm hidden from your family. Like, the public is different, but your family. Then you might have 1, 2, or 3 around them.

[A]

It's a good point. Yeah. It's like a year is a little long. Like, what are we doing?

[B]

Like, if I don't meet any of your family within the three months, what are we doing? Yeah.

[A]

He has cheated in past relationships, but says he has changed.

[B]

Shot I feel people will change for the right person.

[A]

I don't agree with the whole, like, once a cheater, always a cheater.

[B]

I don't agree with that either, but

[A]

if it's been multiple relationships, you got to keep an eye out sometimes.

[B]

Or they just might have not been the right one. So it depends.

[A]

Okay. He won't share his location.

[B]

Oh, shots. I'm not sharing my location. You're not going through my phone. I'm not going through yours. This is the thing about me. I set boundaries for myself. If you give me your location, I will be looking every moment I can get, and I will be freaking myself out if I see you down the CVS at the street. And I'm like, oh, he's with such and such a cvs. Just don't give it to me.

[A]

You're like, just help me help you.

[B]

Yeah, don't give it to me. I'm not giving you mine.

[A]

Oh, I like that. So, awareness.

[B]

I don't want you popping up on me at my place of work trying to be romantic.

[A]

Got it. Oh, I like that. We obviously have been referencing the mixtape resurrection. Producer Timberland. First of all, congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

We've been talking about success and what success looks like, but that is just,

[B]

like, it's pretty freaking cool.

[A]

Insane. What was the inspiration behind this mixtape?

[B]

So it's crazy. It always starts with me posting my production videos online. Have mercy this. I've always been such a huge fan of Timbaland, and even on my album and Pieces, I got a Missy Elliott feature. And I've never been shy of crediting them to my experimenting with my production. It was around a quiet time. I was just making music, and the momentum kind of died, went away. And I was just doing Legos, making beats at home. My God, mom again. She goes, all I see are pictures, pictures, pictures. Why don't you show what I see you doing online? She's like, what happened to your production videos? I'm like, you know what? You're right. Fine. So I start posting my production videos again. I post one, you know, I'm like, oh, let me write a couple lyrics to it. You know, I'm making music anyways. I'll just do this for Instagram. I made this rough song called Keep Watching. I posted, got like 12k comments, went around Timbaland comments. Oh, this is hard. Something like that. He DMs me, oh, are you doing something with this? I'd love to hop on it. I was like, I'm not. It was just for Instagram. But if you want to do something else, I was like, let's do a beat video together. So I sent him a beat. He gave me his number, I texted him the beat, he sent me his back. A month later, we filmed the video. People were like, tripping out. He facetimes me while I'm in St. Lucia making music. Yo. So I have this idea. How about we do a project together? Would you be down for that? And we could make it just like this. I was like, yeah, keep sending me whatever. I make music almost every day. So he'd send me the beats, I'd write to them. He'd send me the beats, I send it back to him. And we made this full project, even, like, probably 10 more songs along with this in two months. All not in person.

[A]

Oh, so you guys have just been vibing, like, sending it back and forth and just coming up with this, like, incredible piece of art. Congratulations. That's really incredible.

[B]

Thank you. And the crazy thing is, the guy who made mixed my very first solo album, Chris, I didn't know he mixed all of Timberland's records. So he was like, I have this guy such and such. And I was like, he was my mix for my first album. So it kind of like brought all of us back together. And he's currently mixing my third album right now, so. But everything just sonically sounds as one, because one is the same mixer. Two, it just was free flowing. We didn't think anything was really going to come of it. He. He called Charmaine. He's like, yo, you think we could get this done? Blah, blah. She's like, yeah, she put it together and here it is.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by polymarket. So everyone has that one friend. That one friend that's like. They knew the couple was gonna break up. They called the surprise album Drop. They somehow knew who was getting cast on the reality show before the announcement even happened. Like, we all have that friend, right? And every time you ask them how they knew, they're like, I don't know. I just. Guys, like, I just had a feeling. Well, let me tell you something, Daddy gang. Lately I have been getting my feelings from Poly Market, okay? Poly Market. My God, how I love that. Okay? It is the world's largest prediction market. Basically a place where you can trade on what's actually going to happen across pop culture, entertainment, sports, relationships, and more. Everything in our life, girls, is on polymarket. So instead of just sending these hot takes in your group chat, you can actually trade on them and see what other people think is going to happen before it does. And the market moves fast because when people actually have something on the line, they pay closer attention. For example, hi, Love Island. So it could be who's winning Love island, whether Kylie and Timothy are getting engaged this year. What do you guys think? Think we'll go to Polymarket. When is Taylor Swift going to drop another album? Do you have any ideas? Go to polymarket. Who's going to take home the Oscar that year? Go to polymarket. Do you see what I'm saying? It gives you real clear idea of what's going to happen before it becomes the obvious take all over the Internet. Even if you're not trading for me personally, I always tell my friends, like, just, it's so fun to be on it. And it's a great way to keep up with culture and to see what people are thinking and starting conversations. It just starts a lot of conversations as well. So, Daddy gang, if you're the friend who's always calling things early, this is basically built for you. So download polymarket. P O L Y M A R K E T. Now available in the United States and free to sign up. New entertainment and culture markets are coming to the app every day, so be the first to trade on them using code Daddy. 50D a D D Y. 50 to get $50 when you deposit your first 20. Have fun. Love you guys. Call her Daddy is brought to you by ritual. Let me tell you a little something. I love summer. Oh, I love summer so much. But when I tell you I get so excited for my plans and then I'm like, oh, my God. But then I'm gonna eat and I'm gonna be out and then I'm gonna, oh, my God, am I gonna have digestion issues? Am I gonna get bloated? Am I going to have discomfort? All of it. We don't need to live like that, okay? Don't let your gut keep you from living your best life, ladies. With rituals, Symbiotic plus, you only need one capsule a day for simple, streamlined gut support. Symbiotic plus is a complete biotic formula with clinically studied pre, pro and postbiotics in clinically studied doses to support a balance gut microbiome. Probiotics are only able to stay in the gut for a few days or weeks at a time, so consistent use can help support the benefit we do not need. Guys, I'm telling you, I'm not. I'm not going to dinners anymore. I'm not going to feel that way because of ritual. We need to Take care of ourselves. So if this is your sign, if you're like, oh, Alex, you're so right. Summer's coming. I want to feel good. I want. You can. You literally can support a balanced gut microbiome with Ritual symbiotic. Plus, save 25% on your first [e-mail]. call her daddy. That's ritual.com. call her daddy for 25 off your first month. Enjoy Daddy gang. Okay, so you're just making music every single day, casually. You're also acting like you have your new movie that's out called Strong. What can you tell us about this movie?

[B]

I shot this movie in Cape Town in South Africa for three months, and I'm really proud of this movie. Like, I'm the one who likes sitting at the edge of my seat. I love the mess. It's a little bit of all of that, plus music.

[A]

I was gonna say there is a lot of deceit and lying in this movie that I feel like that's why I was, like, asking you a little about deceit and lying. I love it because it's like. Like there is a little bit of overlap. What drew you to the role?

[B]

I loved the role of Layla. It was also the mess. I'm not even gonna lie. I was gagged.

[A]

The twists and the turns. My team and I were talking about it. We were like, so then you think you know what's happening, and then you don't. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then. What was the most fun part of filming in Cape Town?

[B]

The stunts. I'm an adrenaline junkie girl. I've always wanted to be, like, a superhero or just a bad. You know, like, because I love doing the stunts. I'm an adrenaline junkie for real. I think that was my favorite part.

[A]

I think it's so incredible when I get to sit down with women, and it's like, you started in this industry doing what you loved and just doing it. Like, I'm gonna, you know, throw our videos up. And, you know, your sister was like, we're. I'll. I'll press record. Hope this works for you guys. And then to see, literally, you, like, like, slowly just continue to establish yourself. And, yes, you've had so many high highs, but I think what's really impressive about you is, like, kind of what we talked about today, which I think is really relatable. It's like finding your balance, though, in the midst of the high highs or the low lows is how you can sustain in an industry like this, which clearly you are finding your way, and you're doing. And so to be an actress, to be a singer, to have a very famous public relationship with your sister, and also to be able to both individually have solo careers, like, you're navigating so much, and you're doing such an incredible job.

[B]

Thank you. And you as well, though. Like, I'm so proud of everything that you stand for and the platform that you give women to speak on. And what kind of makes me feel less of, like. Like, oh, it's my life in the public. Whatever everyone's going through, everyone has problems, and sometimes I'll hear them and be like, and I was upset about this. So I think it makes me feel better knowing that when I'm walking into a room, I'm not the only one going through something. And it makes me appreciate people more, too.

[A]

It's such a good point.

[B]

And if they do hurt you, you can kind of understand where it came from and realize that it wasn't you. It was something they were dealing with internally. Because a lot of times our first thought is, it's me. I'm a burden. I made them react this way. I'm not good enough. And, okay, my therapist told me this before, and I share it a lot with all my people I'm close with. Is the stepping on your toe analogy. Have you heard that?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. If you're walking and you step on someone's toe, you don't go, oh, my gosh, I'm horrible. I stepped on someone's toe. I'm a piece of sh.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, you don't go, get out my way. You were in my way. That's why I stepped on your toe. No, you go, hey, you know what? I'm really sorry I stepped on your toe. I can't promise it won't happen again because accidents happen, but I'm really sorry. That wasn't my intention. And you keep it pushing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's how I've been approaching life now, because I used to be the person to be like, oh, my gosh, I'm horrible. Nobody likes me, likes me. This. The world is ending. So now I take life at the stepping on the toe analogy. And sometimes it's hard. Don't get me wrong. Like, I'm mentally there, but my emotions won't catch up.

[A]

Yeah. But I love it because what you're also saying, and it goes all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, was like, in you turning 28 and in as women, us just continuing to. It's not even about getting older. It's like learning more about ourselves, experiencing more life, getting to know what we like, what we don't like, learning our voice and how to use it. Like we just said, like we talked about going from being a people pleaser to like actually being like, wait, I can say no. And even if that makes people uncomfortable, those people probably shouldn't be in my life. Like, there's so much that we continue to gain as we just continue to go through these experiences, even if they're hard. And I think your life and your story and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing today, today because so many themes that we kind of tapped into, I think are so applicable for a woman watching today. And just everything that you've done, like, I can't wait to continue to follow your career.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm so happy for you. We're all gonna keep following and with the movie and the mixtape and then the album and like, obviously we don't know if, you know, you and Halle will be doing another thing together at some point, but there's so much good coming for you and I wish I received that. I wish you the best 28th year. Thank you. You are really going to eat. 2828. Thank you for coming on caller Daddy.

[B]

Thank you for having me. Foreign.

[A]

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