← Call It What It Is
Loading summary
Transcript230 lines
- [00:00]
Jessica
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care.
- [00:16]
Ryan Seacrest
Retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime.
- [00:24]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply.
- [00:29]
Ryan Seacrest
That's oregonhomecarejobs.com iHeart presents the Big Three.
- [00:36]
Big Three Basketball Announcer (Alternate)
Championship next Sunday, August 24th. The remaining two teams fight it out for the Big Three Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big Three 8th annual All Star Game featuring All Stars Dwight Howard, MontrezZarrell MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you, Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nasia Kaur and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big Three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new Big Three champion. The no holds bar action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on CBS.
- [01:05]
Jessica
If you haven't heard about next up live music, you're seriously missing out.
- [01:10]
Camille Ludington
Tick Tock Live and iHeartRadio are throwing the biggest live music competition on Tick Tock and you can catch it all in real time.
- [01:16]
Jessica
The semifinals are happening August 25th through 29th with the hottest emerging artists performing live on Tick Tock for their shot at the legendary iheart Theater stage.
- [01:28]
Camille Ludington
Come support your favorite artists and tune in for live performances, behind the scene moments and more only on @TikTok live. Underscore us on TikTok.
- [01:38]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to Deals time where you can enjoy storewide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Kettle, Haagen, Dazs, M&M's Ritz, Chips Ahoy, Arrowhead, All Poppy Charman and Red Bull. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [02:09]
Jessica
Call it what It Is with Jessica.
- [02:11]
Camille Ludington
Capshaw and Camille Ludington an iHeartRadio podcast.
- [02:19]
Amanda Knox
Foreign.
- [02:28]
Jessica
Hello Call It Crew and welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is.
- [02:33]
Camille Ludington
I don't even want to chit chat with you. That's how excited I am about this next guest.
- [02:37]
Jessica
I agree. I don't want to chit chat with you at all.
- [02:40]
Camille Ludington
Just got nothing for you.
- [02:42]
Jessica
I've got Nothing for you, but we have so much for you guys today. Okay, who do we have on the pod? We have a very special guest today.
- [02:49]
Camille Ludington
We have on Amanda Knox. Amanda Knox is a writer, a podcaster, and a criminal justice reform advocate whose name became known worldwide after she was wrongfully convicted and ultimately exonerated in the 2007 murder of her roommate, Meredith Kersher while studying abroad in Italy.
- [03:08]
Jessica
She spent nearly four years in prison and eight years fighting to clear her name, all under an intense media spotlight. Jessica, I'm sure you remember that time. I mean, it was intense. Actually doesn't even describe what it was.
- [03:22]
Camille Ludington
No, no.
- [03:23]
Jessica
Today she has reclaimed her narrative and she is using her platform to challenge wrongful convictions, media sensationalism, and the rush to judgment in high profile cases. And she has a brand new project.
- [03:38]
Camille Ludington
You guys, on Hulu.
- [03:40]
Jessica
On Hulu. It is going to be premiering August 20th. And it is called the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. And it is a series. The series dramatizes story with unflinching honesty, aiming to spark empathy and deeper reflection about how we treat those accused of a crime.
- [03:57]
Camille Ludington
Let's get into it.
- [03:59]
Jessica
Amanda Knox, welcome to call it what it is.
- [04:02]
Amanda Knox
Well, thank you for having me.
- [04:04]
Jessica
We are so excited to have you. We did a little intro on you and sort of reminded listeners in case they didn't know of everything that happened to you back in 2007. It does feel, I remember all of that news. It does. As, as a listener or an outsider to the situation. It does feel like a long time ago for you. Does it feel the same or.
- [04:29]
Amanda Knox
No? I mean, it feels in many ways like another life ago because my life is so different now. Right? Like, I'm a mom, I'm married. I have a four year old, I have a almost two year old. So I'm very much like in the trenches of motherhood alongside, you know, doing, you know, podcasting and executive producing and writing. I, you know, I'm a very busy and, and enmeshed person. Like, I'm enmeshed in like, my world of people and purpose. And to look back on those, those years of my life where I was removed from the world and isolated from humanity and was trapped in a jail cell with limited opportunities and, you know, punish. The huge part of the punishment was being rendered purposeless. It's a whole incredible other life. And at the same time, you know, to this day, there's not a day that goes by that I do not think about what happened. And I'm not totally informed as a human being. By what happened. So it's very distant and very close at the same time.
- [05:49]
Camille Ludington
When you said that, first of all, I got chills all over my body.
- [05:52]
Jessica
Yeah.
- [05:52]
Camille Ludington
But I. We talk a lot about Camilla and I talk about it privately, we talk about it publicly here. But anyone who I get into conversation with will know that purpose is kind of like one of my number ones. It's definitely in the top three of me understanding myself and, and in which directions I move in because I am so purpose driven and purpose is, you know, can be in anything. Right. Like your purpose in your family, your purpose in your work, your. But there's, there's a true, there's a, there's a true north to it. But when you were talking and I was thinking and you were saying that the punishment was being purposeless, I, I was struck by. Could you think outside of it? I mean, could, could you dream outside of it? Could you. I mean, was. Were you so entrenched in it that it was the day to day, minute to minute, or were you distracted by the idea that, that this punishment could stop? Or were you. Did you get to the point where not just purposeless, but hopeless?
- [06:54]
Amanda Knox
So, interesting question. So I would have to say that there were various phases over the course of going through this experience, and so just I need to like, set a stage of what those, what those phases were like. So in the most simplified way, this legal ordeal, while it has not fully resolved even today, like, let's, you know, just focus on the, you know, the murder accusation. Right? I was accused of murder and that, that didn't resolve itself for eight years. It took eight years for it to totally resolve itself. The first four of which that I spent in prison. The second four of which were I spent outside of prison, but I was still on trial, I was facing extradition. I was still very much in this limbo space of do I get to live my life or not? So the first part of my imprisonment, the first two years, the first half of my time in prison was before I even had a verdict. Right. So I, me and my family sort of lived in a state of, I mean, hopefulness, but also one might call denial, because I was very much under the impression that while these, you know, a huge amount of time was being stolen from me, it was all just a big misunderstanding. It was all just a big mistake that when all the, the adults sort of showed up in the room to decide on what to do, they would do the right thing and I would get to home and I would get my life back Right. So that mental space in that was very much a kind of the, it was very like that kitten that's hanging on to the branch. It's just like, hang on, little kitten, you're, you're gonna get there. And the, the, like the way that my mom talked about it was that we were in this dark tunnel, but there was a light at the end of the tunnel, right?
- [08:51]
Camille Ludington
Which is hope. You've got hope.
- [08:52]
Amanda Knox
That's hope. But then came the verdict which found me, which, which not only sentenced me to 26 years in prison. Right? That's a long time to tell a 22 year old girl. 26 years in prison. The things that I had to grieve in that moment, like the idea that I might be a mother one day, gone. The idea that I might fall in love and have a family, just gone. Like the idea that I could have a career and a future, gone. Like I, you know, 26 years means that I'm out in my late 40s and I'm going to be a broken and traumatized woman who is completely estranged from everything and everyone that I love. Okay, Setting that aside, even there's the existential crisis of realizing that, oh my God, the truth doesn't matter. Like everything that I thought I could believe in and count on has, has either let me down or betrayed me. And now what? Now what?
- [09:58]
Camille Ludington
And the verdict being this incredible like, certainty. Like it was, it was, it was finite. It, it felt like, okay, now like the gavel bangs and it's done.
- [10:09]
Amanda Knox
Yeah. This is a guilty verdict. You were sentenced to 26 years in prison. You are an evil monster who needs to be shut up and disappear like that. This is what was presented to me. And I was suddenly had a very quick shift in mental state where I realized that I wasn't just like living. It wasn't a mistake, right? Like, I wasn't just living somebody else's life by mistake. That's what it felt like up to that moment. Like, oh, no, I'm living somebody else's life by mistake. I just need to get my life back. As soon as that verdict got handed down, I was like, oh my God, this is my life and there's nothing I can do about it. And I went back to the prison and looked around me with new eyes at this scenario which was all of this time that I've just been sort of like keeping my head down and thinking about life on the outside. Like that life doesn't exist for me. What exists for me is right here, this hellhole. I Then. But then, like, the sort of good thing that came out of it was, okay, what? Is there a life worth living in this. In this place, within these limitations? And I quickly realized that actually, you know, I had gone to Italy to become a translator. Turns out that the prison needed a translator. And I, over the course of two years, had become fluent in Italian. And so suddenly, I could be the unofficial translator for all of those other women in the prison who couldn't speak Italian and who couldn't defend themselves and who couldn't explain their ailments to the doctors and who couldn't write letters to their own loved ones because they couldn't read or write. And so I became very purposeful within that prison environment, but still feeling like. Like all those things that I had hoped for myself, I had to grieve them. And then. And then I get released. You know, I'm acquitted. I'm released, and I'm catapulted back into freedom. And I say that in quotes because, one, I was not technically free. I was still on trial. So for another four years, I'm still, like, facing the prospect that someone's going to steal my freedom away from me again. But also because all this time in prison, I had. I had imagined what life would be like for me on the outside. And I really hoped and hoped beyond hope that I would get the life back that I had before everything happened. All these bad things happened to me, and I just thought, if I could only just get home and get back to my life, I'll be okay. But that life didn't exist for me anymore either, because the world had changed around me. I was now the girl accused of murder. I was very much still in the public eye. And in a more deeper way, I was changed. Like, I was not the girl who went to Italy and had never had anything bad happen to her. Like, I was a very changed person. And it took a long time for me to rediscover how I had changed and what that meant for how I could exist in the world in a meaningful way. Because the messaging that I got was, you're either a psychopathic murderer who got away with it, or you're. You've been wrongly convicted, but your wrongful conviction is your own fault. So too bad. Like, yeah, that's so intense.
- [14:10]
Jessica
Yeah, that's very. And. And 22 is so young as well, to have been experiencing that. And then when you get out, you're still so young.
- [14:18]
Camille Ludington
Well, you're still in your adolescent brain.
- [14:20]
Jessica
I mean, of course, literally discovering yourself.
- [14:24]
Amanda Knox
Arrested at 20, released at. Let's say, I think I was. Was I 20? Yeah, I was 24 when I was released, and then I was finally exonerated when I was 28.
- [14:33]
Jessica
Can I ask, because we have a lot of young listeners who maybe don't know all the details of your case, and maybe just broad strokes of it, what was the thing that did exonerate you in the end?
- [14:48]
Amanda Knox
So, there was a number of things, but the most important thing was that there was zero DNA evidence that actually linked me to this crime. Right. So early on, the prosecution said that there was a murder weapon, that they had discovered the murder weapon.
- [15:06]
Jessica
And this is the knife, right, that.
- [15:07]
Amanda Knox
Had the DNA on, like, my. My roommate was. Was raped and stabbed to death. And so they. They found this. This knife that they just pulled at random from my boyfriend's apartment. And they said that on this knife, there was my DNA on the handle and my roommate's blood on the blade. And they, you know, presented this in court, and everyone believed them until finally, during my appeals trial, the judge appointed an independent expert who reviewed the DNA evidence and said, no, that's not true. Yes, Amanda's DNA is on the handle, but any DNA that's on the blade is inconclusive at best, and it's certainly not blood. And so that just blew the prosecution's case out the window. They had nothing linking me to this crime, and so they. I was found innocent, and. Which is great. I think that I'm surprised that I was ever convicted in the first place, because I had no motive. They were never able to, you know, provide a motive why I would rape and murder my roommate. I had no history of any kind of mental illness or violence in my background. You know, I. I had an alibi. My. I was at my boyfriend's house. I, like, the. Only. Like, also, you know, for the record, there was, like, she was murdered in her bedroom. There was all this DNA found of someone else who was a known burglar, who had. Was known to be violent towards women. And instead of just saying, oh, it's him, what they said was, oh, Amanda told him to rape Meredith, and then he held her down while Amanda stabbed her to death. Like, but there's no, like, DNA of me in the room where I supposedly was struggling to the death with my roommate. So it's just, like. It was preposterous from the start, but, like, people really honed in on, like, oh, it's the murder weapon. And then some independent experts came along and were like, actually, it's not and then, you know, the entire case crumbled.
- [17:21]
Camille Ludington
Everything you're describing sounds so disorienting.
- [17:24]
Jessica
I mean, it doesn't sound real.
- [17:36]
Amanda Knox
You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own, with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply. That's oregonhomecarejobs.com foreign.
- [18:04]
Jessica
If you haven't heard about NextUp Live Music TikTok's biggest music talent show, you're seriously missing out.
- [18:11]
Camille Ludington
TikTok Live and iHeartRadio are teaming up to find the next wave of music stars, and they're performing live only on.
- [18:18]
Jessica
TikTok from August 25th to 29th. Watch the semifinalists give it everything they've got in real time.
- [18:25]
Camille Ludington
This is your chance to support your favorite artists and discover the next superstars before they hit the big stage at LA's legendary Iheart Theater this fall.
- [18:34]
Jessica
Follow at TikTok Live. Underscore us on TikTok now and tune in to every performance, every battle and behind the scenes, your front row seat is just one tap away. Remember, it's at TikTok Live. Underscore us on TikTok.
- [18:50]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's big three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, I heart presents the big three best basketball playoffs this Sunday at 3pm Eastern. The remaining four teams battle it out for the right to make the Big Three championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big 3 Monster Energy Celebrity Game where your favorite stars compete in Big 33 on 3 basketball. Then the first of two semifinal games features Dwight Howard and the LA Riot taking on Montrez, Harold and Dr. J's first place Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami three hundred and five with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance will make you, Dan Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who finished the season winning five straight weeks to capture second place. Can Glenn Rice, Greg Monroe and Paul Millsap stop Miami's physical assault? Or will Miami and Beasley put an end to Dallas winning ways? Who will make it to the big three championship? This no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3:00pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.
- [19:50]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to Deals time where you can enjoy storewide deals and Earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Califia Farms, Pillsbury Crescent, Yoplait, General Mills, Prego, Bertoli, Heinz and Kraft. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions. Apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [20:26]
Camille Ludington
Did you have anyone that. Because that's like living in the Upside Down. Someone's telling you all these, this laundry list of things that are. That is absolutely not true. You have no lived experience or memory of it. It's again being told like it's truth. And then there are people nodding instead of saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I can only imagine how disoriented I would be in that situation. And I think that whenever I get disoriented, I immediately.
- [20:52]
Amanda Knox
You.
- [20:53]
Camille Ludington
You sort of referenced this earlier. You look for the adults in the room. You're like, where are the grownups? Because these people are not getting it right. Who was there a grown up at all that you. That you got to trust during this experience or that you could look to for critical thinking and, or just that was that when they said the crazy thing was like, that's a crazy thing.
- [21:15]
Amanda Knox
Well, so here's the thing. Like, there were like, my prosecutor was like a grown ass man standing up in front of the courtroom talking about how I'm a slut monster. And, and like putting, like setting a scene where he's literally putting words into my mouth. He's, he's like Amanda said, oh, this is. Now you're going to get it, you prudish little girl. Now I'm going to make you. I'm going to force you to have sex and I'm going to, you know, like, like punish you. And he's just like making shit up on the fly, like making it up. And everyone is just sitting there listening to it. And I'm like, there's. He's making this up. Like, what. Why are, why are we allowed to do this? Like, who's, who's the one who has the authority? And it felt like either the people who had the authority were already just like totally bought into that narrative, or it was like, there is no one who has the authority to this day. You know, it. Of course my family knew that it was all insane. And of course even my attorneys knew it was all insane. And there were many, you know, there are many vocal critics of this narrative. Even as it was going on.
- [22:31]
Camille Ludington
Did you see headlines like, were you aware of what the coverage was of it as well, or were you just living it?
- [22:37]
Amanda Knox
I had limited access because, again, I was in prison, so I only had access to Italian reporting. But that said, I knew through my family members that there was, you know, worldwide interest in the case. I was receiving letters from all over the world from people who were writing to say that they were following the case. It didn't really become, like, viscerally clear to me until I was released from prison. And, like, I will never forget being on the plane and being sort of, like, whisked away, like, away from all the other passengers by the. By the airport staff because they were afraid that I was going to be mobbed. And then I get on the airplane and everyone else falls asleep, but I'm like, too just, like, amped by adrenaline because I'm not in a prison cell anymore. And so I turned on the TV and every single channel was just my face and my name and the headline. And I was just, like. I just felt all. I just felt a coldness just, like, shower over me. Like, oh, my God. And of course, I come home to Seattle and I'm overwhelmed just by the way smell of my home, which is like, you know, that. That, like, I'm from the Pacific Northwest. There's rain, there's earth, there's pine trees. I hadn't smelled that in four years. And I'm hit with it like smelling salts. And the next thing I know, I'm stuck in front of a press conference, which I'm completely unprepared for. So, yes and no. Like, yes, I was aware that every time I walked into the courtroom, there were more cameras that I can count and people shouting at me and, you know, people interviewing my family members all the time. Like, I knew that, but I didn't, like, know. Know that until I was finally let out and I could get a glimpse of it for myself.
- [24:40]
Jessica
Was there any part of you? Because it was such a huge case, right? And it was covered. It was covered all over the world. Was there any part of you that came home and felt like you wanted to change your name, to almost assume a new identity, to, like, remove yourself from that?
- [24:57]
Amanda Knox
You know, a lot of people have asked me that, and there's. There's a couple factors for why I didn't. One is that even if I had changed my name, I still am pretty recognizable. Like, there was a point where I cut off all my hair. I was wearing glasses, and even then I was still being followed by paparazzi. So, like, I. There was I couldn't just like do a sort of face off maneuver. Like I had a recognizable face. So there was that issue, but I think the other one was that for me, changing my name felt like admitting defeat. It felt like it was admitting that there was something wrong with me and not something wrong with the way that the world had treated me. And I was very resistant to the idea of changing my name because I didn't want to like, give the idea that like there was anything wrong with me. Like I didn't do anything wrong. And so I don't need to change. All of you need to change is basically like the, the feeling. And, and I think the other, another part of it is this sort of silver lining to it being so freaking public is that whether or not other people know about the worst experience of my life, I know it.
- [26:22]
Jessica
Yeah.
- [26:22]
Amanda Knox
And it's, it's, it's almost like the fact that everyone else knows it means that it doesn't become an obstacle between me and everyone else. It's just kind of there, it's on the table and you're going to react to it the way that you're going to react to it. And I'm going to learn a lot about you by the way that you react to it, honestly. So it's, I never at any point had to find myself, you know, I know a lot. I'm friends with a lot of exonerated people and not all of them have, you know, world famous cases. And in fact, you know, I'm pretty up there in terms of how well known of a wrongful conviction. And some of them do have that choice of deciding when and how to share that fact with the people around them. But they do carry it with them like baggage. It's like bad news that they have to like share with people. And it's, it's a struggle to like, it's a, it's a barrier. It's a, it's a, it's very often again like this object of shame where they like, even if it's not their fault, they're still, you know, I think all victims of, you know, especially I think this is a thing we have in common with victims of crime, is that like this bad thing happened to you, but you don't want it to define you. But in a big way, it is a part of who you are and how do you make sense of that and how do you decide to share that with people? And in my case, I didn't have that choice. Like, it was just there. And so I had to deal with the fact that everyone knew for better or for worse.
- [28:00]
Camille Ludington
Yeah, well, I can. I'm imagining this, that, that being imprisoned, you know, that there's a, that there's a stripping of dignity that would stay with you even if you got out, even if you were that feeling, that feeling. I mean, you're not free, you're less than. You're imprisoned. It's very different. So you did end up having such a well known case that now we are led to the part where in just a couple days there will be a new series that is different than anything else that's come out about your story. It stars Grace Van Patten, who I played her mother on Tell Me Lies. So I know Gracie well from working with her and she's so lovely and I've been seeing the pictures of her and I've been very taken by, first of all, she. She looks like you.
- [29:01]
Amanda Knox
I know. Isn't it wild?
- [29:03]
Camille Ludington
She really looks like you.
- [29:06]
Jessica
Yeah. It's almost creepy, you guys.
- [29:08]
Camille Ludington
It is, it really is. But tell us, I mean, again, you know, again, so public, you have the documentary, you have the podcast, you have, you know, you're deep into your advocacy work. What was it about the idea of a limited series that called to you? Like, what. What were you, what were you going to be able to do in this that you hadn't in the other pieces?
- [29:31]
Amanda Knox
Great. So I actually first want to go back to something that you said, which I think is actually really smart and empathetic and I want to thank you for that. Is just noting what the prison experience is like and how it changes your psychology and your relationship to something like privacy. Right. In prison, you have no privacy. That does not exist for you anymore. You can't go to the bathroom without someone watching you. You cannot take a shower without someone watching you. You do. Like, privacy is a luxury that I did not have for four years of my developing life. Meanwhile, everything about me was being dissected in the courtroom. You know, true things and completely false things. Like, you know, anything about my sex life, real and imagined, was up for discussion in, in broad public in front of everyone.
- [30:32]
Jessica
And let's not forget that this is like 2007 when it's like you were slut shamed.
- [30:36]
Amanda Knox
Right?
- [30:36]
Jessica
Like, if you had multiple sexual partners, you were a slut. Like, and therefore it said something about you and your moral compass and all the things. It was a different time, hopefully. Hopefully than it is now.
- [30:47]
Amanda Knox
Right. And I, yeah, I do feel like a lot of young women, your younger listeners Are, I are. Like, their response has always been like, oh my God. Like, they're just aghast. Like, you know, in, in the world of like, call her daddy. Like, this is a very different world when we talk about emerging into ourselves as sexual beings. And that was just not allowed. It was, it was very much a weapon against young women and that was deeply weaponized against me. But I, to your point about like, you know, after having everything about me dissected, it changed even my relationship to the idea of, of privacy and what I could keep private because I felt like even after I was released from prison and even after I was exonerated, like I have. And again, this is a burden that everyone who's been wrongly accused feels. You feel like every day of your life, for the rest of your life, you are proving your innocence. Yeah. And there's a kind of openness that you have to have because it's almost like you have to be overly transparent in order to do that to prove your innocence. At least that's how a little bit how I feel that makes sense. But to your point about the series, which I'm so incredibly proud of and excited about, not least of which because Grace Van Patten is a fricking genius and I really can't wait to see how like, and I'd love to know because you've worked with her, how like, she's just like leveled up as an actress by like what was demanded of her for this role. Because it was not an easy role to take. Like she had to be a young and naive 20 year old girl and she had to be a jaded and haunted 35 year old woman. She had to be experiencing the best moments of my life and the worst moments of my life. And she had to do it in English and Italian.
- [32:52]
Camille Ludington
But I read somewhere that she was, it was a dream of hers that she had actually followed your story and she had actually that she was the one that was like. Because at one point Margaret Qualley was attached to it and when she dropped out, she had actually said to her agent, I, if anyone ever gets to play her, I would like to play her. Is that true?
- [33:08]
Amanda Knox
Yes. Yes. Her enthusiasm for the role was a like huge her and you know, her credible gravitas was, I mean, you know, tell me lies. She was just an incredible presence.
- [33:19]
Camille Ludington
Yeah.
- [33:19]
Amanda Knox
Had so much like depth and gravitas and like nuance to her character and then, you know, to see her sort of blossom. Like friends and family of mine who have seen the series say that they get like, goosebumps watching her because of the way that she really just takes on my personality and like the sing song of my voice and the cha cha of my, you know, my footstep. Like, there's. She's really embodied this role and also brought herself into it and added these like, just extra layers of nuance, which is so cool. I love seeing it.
- [33:51]
Camille Ludington
We haven't had any humorous moments on this for obvious reasons, but I do, I do just want to say that cha cha footstep is a good one. Thank you. I wanted to. What does that sound like I want to cha cha footsteps or another one.
- [34:04]
Amanda Knox
Is like, I snort when I laugh quite a bit.
- [34:07]
Camille Ludington
And so, like, so did my grandma Nina.
- [34:09]
Amanda Knox
Right. And so she, like, I think at least once snorted on, like snorted in one scene so that we got the benefit of the snort. I was like nicknamed the snort on set by one of the people.
- [34:21]
Camille Ludington
I mean, I don't want to totally throw Grandma Nina under the bus. I mean, I've been known to snort. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not above a snort. It's happened.
- [34:30]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, I do it all the time.
- [34:32]
Jessica
So did you get to spend. I mean, I know I'm thinking as an actress, like, taking on a role like this, you could go back and like, you could watch interviews and watch footage. Did you get to spend one on one time together before shooting so that she could sort of sit with you in this?
- [34:47]
Amanda Knox
Oh, totally. Yeah. So we had numerous zoom calls. We. The first time we ever hung out with in person was in Echo Park. We were there with me and my husband and my kids. And then of course, we spent time together on set. So, you know, we've. We've talked through scenes. We've done some big picture discussions of like, oh, how do you, like, really good questions that she would ask me, like, you know, how do you non verbally communicate with your husband? Or when. When people say you're quirky, like, what does that mean? Can you give me an example? And I was like, well, you know, like those musical theater kids from high school. She's like, yes.
- [35:26]
Jessica
Yeah.
- [35:26]
Amanda Knox
I just like, I know what that is, so. And she was like, that's, that's like me and my friends. And I was like, yeah, so you got it. And even that she said that, like, I remember recently she said that it wasn't actually. It didn't take this huge leap in order to, like, get into the Amanda mindset, because it was just it. We're very similar kind of people. Anyway.
- [35:56]
Jessica
You can make a difference in.
- [35:57]
Amanda Knox
Someone'S life, including your own, with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit Oregon Homecare Journey to learn more and apply. That's OregonHomecareJobs.com.
- [36:24]
Jessica
If you haven't heard about NextUp Live Music TikTok's biggest music talent show, you're seriously missing out.
- [36:31]
Camille Ludington
TikTok Live and iHeartRadio are teaming up to find the next wave of music stars and they're performing live only on.
- [36:38]
Jessica
TikTok from August 25th to 29th. Watch the second semifinalists give it everything they've got in real time.
- [36:46]
Camille Ludington
This is your chance to support your favorite artists and discover the next superstars before they hit the big stage at LA's legendary Iheart Theater this fall.
- [36:54]
Jessica
Follow at TikTok Live. Underscore us on TikTok now and tune into every performance, every battle and behind the scenes. Your front row seat is just one tap away. Remember, it's at TikTok Live. Underscore us on TikTok.
- [37:11]
Big Three Basketball Announcer (Alternate)
The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's big three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, I heart presents the Big 3 basketball championship and 8th annual Big 3 all star game this coming Sunday, August 24th. Live from Orlando. The remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 championship Dr. J trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild congregation conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazir Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new big three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2:00pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on CBS.
- [38:11]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th it's back to deals time where you can enjoy store wide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Kettle, Haagen, Dazs, M&M's Ritz, Chips Ahoy, Arrowhead, All Poppy Charman and Red Bull. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings, shop in store or online for easy drive up and go, pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [38:46]
Jessica
Were you ever on set and she was in a scene and they yell cut. And you had to come in and say, like, wait, that's not how I would have. That's not, like, doesn't feel organic to me, like, what I'm seeing. And sort of redirect her in a way that you would have participated in this moment.
- [39:06]
Amanda Knox
I never felt. The only time I ever stopped and entered in was when she pronounced the Italian wrong.
- [39:16]
Jessica
Oh.
- [39:18]
Amanda Knox
So I was like, oh, you actually pronounce it like this? And she was like, oh, duh. Like, you know, like, she just was remembering how to pronounce the Italian word. But otherwise, like, her instincts were so spot on. I think there is only one scene where I was giving a few notes, but also because it was. It was. The scene itself was a such a psychological journey. It was the interrogation scene.
- [39:45]
Camille Ludington
I cannot wait to see this.
- [39:46]
Amanda Knox
Yes. So there. This is. This scene is a tremendous scene for her to play because she goes from one mental scene state on this roller coaster of a psychological breakdown and then ends up in a completely altered state by the end. And it's a. It's a long, nuanced scene. And so there are many moments where, like, things. Things are changing, things are shifting. Different people are interacting with her in different ways. And so it. It took a lot of, like, giving sort of, like, guidance to people. Like, when is it that the heat gets amped up in this way? And who's leading it? And how is Amanda responding? There's just. It was just so much happening all at once that, like, there was, you know, there was a complicated scene. But, like, even in that scene, like, her. Her instincts were so strong, and I really trusted her, and I saw it with my own eyes as she, like, lived. It really felt like she was living this. This experience that we had, you know, crafted as a team.
- [40:57]
Camille Ludington
Well, say something about that, because that's. That's. I'm very interested in that because obviously it's such a long span of time, and there are so many important pieces. And again, you had done some pieces through podcasting and documentaries that had. That had told the story right. Like, you. You had that, but now you're doing it in. Is it eight episodes?
- [41:21]
Amanda Knox
Yes, it's eight episodes.
- [41:23]
Camille Ludington
So how did you find the. How did you figure out what was gonna go in? And is it different than anything We've seen.
- [41:30]
Amanda Knox
Right? Yeah. Well, to go back to a previous question, which you had asked that I didn't fully answer is like, why tell the show now and in this way, when one might say this, this story has been told in so many ways and so many, so many times. I've only ever taken part in, like, one documentary. I've done like, numerous podcasts and stuff like that. But, like, I did take part in the Amanda Knox Netflix documentary, but that is a documentary where I was interviewed. I was not at all at. At any point in any kind of creative or authoritative role. I was really at the mercy of the filmmakers to create the film that they wanted to create. And I think that they made a great film. And I think that it really touched upon, like, the broader implications of this case. And it didn't just, you know, revel in the trauma of it all. So I think they did a really great job. But again, it wasn't like of my creation. And many people over the years have reached out to me because they want to tell my story. And I wasn't interested in that because for the longest time, this didn't really feel like my story. So I didn't, you know, take up any of those opportunities. And it wasn't until 2021, when I was pregnant and then gave birth to my daughter, that. And that I started to think about how. How I could tell this story in a way that it did feel like my story. And part of that was because I had already two years, you know, since 2019, I had reached out to my prosecutor and started to develop a relationship with him and, you know, an epistolary relationship. Right. We were communicating with each other and I had decided that I was going to return to Italy to confront him.
- [43:36]
Camille Ludington
And so you were writing letters back and forth.
- [43:39]
Amanda Knox
Yep.
- [43:40]
Camille Ludington
So the confrontation wasn't happening in the letters. You were just. What were you saying in the letters?
- [43:45]
Jessica
Yeah, I'm like, is he. Was he acknowledging that, like, he dub. Like, yeah, that's, you know, that's was there. And I'm sorry that you went to prison.
- [43:55]
Amanda Knox
So I don't want to give anything away. But what I will say is that this series spends less time in the epistolary relationship and more time in the actual head, like head on confrontation. Whereas my book Free, which. My new book Free My Search for Meaning, does discuss that epistolary relationship that we developed and then all of that.
- [44:21]
Camille Ludington
So somehow this, this letter writing exchange leads to a point in which he agrees. And. And I'm guessing you're Asking him to meet you.
- [44:29]
Amanda Knox
Yes.
- [44:30]
Camille Ludington
He agrees.
- [44:30]
Amanda Knox
Yes.
- [44:31]
Camille Ludington
And then that. Okay.
- [44:32]
Amanda Knox
Yes.
- [44:33]
Jessica
Was there any part of you that never wanted to go back to Italy ever again?
- [44:36]
Amanda Knox
No, I didn't know if I would be able to, so. And again, to, like, return back to the. Keep. I keep not answering the question.
- [44:47]
Jessica
We have so many questions, so this is obvious. This is so. Yeah. Captivating.
- [44:52]
Amanda Knox
So when I partnered with Monica Lewinsky, who had been a friend, you know, for years, who's a tremendous human. A tremendous human and an incredible, like, path forger for those of us who are trying to reclaim our lives, like, she has forged that path. And when we partnered with our creator and showrunner, K.J. steinberg, we all agreed that this story doesn't just exist in the way that everyone else has told this story, which is. It's a courtroom drama. Like, this is not what this is. Like, this story is a personal story of evolution of a human being. And so that's why it begins and ends like the story is. Amanda goes back to Italy to confront her prosecutor and to understand and appreciate why we go back in time and relive everything she went through in order to get to that final moment when she confronts her prosecutor. And they have that face to face standoff. And it was so important to KJ and Monica and me to show that there is a life before trauma and a life after. And that life after is. So that is where this. Like, this distinguishes this show from any other true crime show that you might have. You might encounter, because it does not just click, close the curtain when I get out of prison. Like, that is where I begin to start making decisions for myself in response to this bad thing that happened to me. And that's. And that's where it becomes a universal story instead of just this wild, crazy thing that happened, you know?
- [46:36]
Jessica
Right.
- [46:37]
Camille Ludington
It's so interesting, the partnering with Monica, because obviously, in. During an incredibly exploited and widely known story, there weren't grown ups in the room.
- [46:49]
Amanda Knox
Of all the people who should have been grown ups in the room, there should have been grown ups.
- [46:53]
Camille Ludington
That was gonna be my next point, because that should be the most grown up of all the grown ups. And. And they weren't. And. And then there was also, you know, in her story, not. Well, the public was the prosecutor on some level, but there was Linda Tripp, like, at the center of it.
- [47:12]
Amanda Knox
Right. That betrayal of Trump.
- [47:14]
Camille Ludington
And I don't. Yeah. And I don't know the answer to this, and maybe I should. So did she ever confront Linda?
- [47:19]
Amanda Knox
Did Monica ever have the chance to confront Linda. You should have her on the podcast.
- [47:23]
Jessica
Okay, you know what? We have to hear from her. Jess, I think I have a question. Have you found. I have two questions. Have you been able to find forgiveness for the people that put you into the position that you ended up in?
- [47:40]
Amanda Knox
So that is one of the questions that this series attempts to address and show. And I think what I'll say without, like, giving away anything, is that when I set out to go confront my prosecutor, forgiveness was not my intention. However, I was. I was surprised to discover that compassion sort of inevitably leads you down a path that. That looks a lot like forgiveness, even if that's not the intention per se. My intention was to understand him.
- [48:27]
Jessica
What did you want to hear from him? What would have been, like, the perfect thing to hear from him?
- [48:32]
Amanda Knox
The perfect thing to hear from him would have been, I was wrong. I'm going to stand on the rooftops and tell everyone I was wrong. Please forgive me. What can I do to make this up to you? That would have been amazing, but.
- [48:46]
Jessica
And this series will show us what he did end up saying to you.
- [48:50]
Amanda Knox
Exactly.
- [48:51]
Jessica
Okay, I have. My other question is, you mentioned having a daughter.
- [48:55]
Amanda Knox
Yes.
- [48:56]
Jessica
If your daughter wanted to study abroad, is there a part of you that would be like, no, No.
- [49:06]
Amanda Knox
I actually am very pro study abroad. Especially now that we live in a world that's so much more connected than it was when I was going and studying abroad. Like, it's. It's not necessarily safer, per se. Like, being able to call me on FaceTime doesn't protect someone. Like, I'm not going to, like, go and intervene if something bad is happening to my daughter. But I do think that I can equip her to trust her own instincts. And, you know, like, here's the. Here's the really up thing. Like, what happened to Meredith? Like, let's put aside what happened to me. What happened to Meredith? She was doing everything right. Like, she was never walking home alone. She was calling her family members every day. She was in her own bedroom when she was raped and murdered. Like, this is not like, you know, she. You know, she wasn't just, like, wandering around, you know, in some back alley. Like, she was. She had gotten a walk home with her friends and was attacked in her own bedroom. Like, so there is no way to be perfectly safe in the world. That said, that could have happened to her in her own hometown. It's. There you are. You are sort of, by definition, more vulnerable when you study abroad, but that's also one of the reasons why it's such a beautiful experience because normally that is because you're more vulnerable. That leads people to embrace you and to hold you and to welcome you and to sort of stitch you into their social fabric because they recognize you as a human being and they want to support you. You're a young person who has everything going for them. Like, you know, when I was in Italy, I was even having those wonderful experiences where I was making friends and. And I was getting to know, like, it's this beautiful. And I think it's very important to have, like, cultural exchanges and to recognize that the world is bigger than your own backyard, and there are different ways to be and to live, and they're all valid. Like, I think that that's a really important visceral experience to have. And at the same time, like, you are more vulnerable. And I think that my daughter is not going to not know that. Yeah.
- [51:41]
Camille Ludington
And, you know, a piece of this. When I first heard of your story, you know, we are. We immediately sort of neurologically, like, neurobiologically, we have this, like, hard wiring to connect. Right. So what about a story might be something that I understand in a certain way or in a different way or that is somehow touched or kissed my life. And I had studied abroad in Florence, Italy, my junior year.
- [52:08]
Amanda Knox
Classic, classic.
- [52:10]
Camille Ludington
Very classic art history.
- [52:12]
Amanda Knox
I was right there with you.
- [52:15]
Camille Ludington
And when you were just talking, the vulnerability would be that you're still in school. And so you have your adolescent mind, which adolescents, a fancy word for child, right? You have your child mind. You're not fully baked yet. It's not like maybe you're gonna make some off choices. You have to make some off choices in order to figure out what the on choices are, the right choices are. And you're in a very new place. But you do have this opportunity because you're so open to everything. You're so open to learning. You're so receptive. And so when I heard your story, I. I remembered that mindset and that. That feeling of being so open, so receptive, so. Or rather less worried about, you know, fill in the blank, doing something that just wasn't necessarily what you would do, you know, 10 years later or whatever, and. And knowing that you can make mistakes and then. And then it can be okay. And yeah, clearly in your case, it was not okay. It was not okay.
- [53:21]
Amanda Knox
Yeah.
- [53:22]
Camille Ludington
And just like, the fear that would come in about that.
- [53:25]
Amanda Knox
Yeah. I think the biggest fear that I came out from it was, you know, after you've gone through an experience like this, how like, not just how do you trust the rest of the world, but how do you trust yourself again? Because it was your own openness and vulnerability that allowed for this to happen. Like, you know, the second that I called my mom and said, oh, my God, there's been a break in, and then, you know, I called her back later and I was like, mom, there's, you know, something really bad has happened. She was like, get on a plane right now. Come home. And I didn't. I didn't because I wanted to help the investigation. I didn't because the police told me that I should stay and help them. I, you know, I didn't for all. And I didn't because I didn't. Like, I, you know, I was in a scenario where, yes, suddenly I was in a very scary situation that was very unsafe, but also I trusted the police. Right. And you.
- [54:25]
Jessica
And it probably never occurred to you that it was the arrow was gonna end up pointing at you.
- [54:30]
Camille Ludington
Yeah.
- [54:30]
Amanda Knox
Like, it's like the least. Like, the thing I was worried about was that the person who murdered my roommate was like a weird psycho who was like, fixated on the people who lived in our house. Like, I was afraid that maybe this person was maybe following us and might try to kill me, too, you know, like that. That was what I was thinking. I was not at all thinking that I was going to be targeted from the very people that I was leaning on for my own safety.
- [55:07]
Camille Ludington
You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own, with a job in home care.
- [55:13]
Amanda Knox
These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options, and free training.
- [55:20]
Camille Ludington
They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime.
- [55:25]
Amanda Knox
Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply.
- [55:30]
Camille Ludington
That's Oregon Home Care carejobs.com.
- [55:36]
Jessica
If you haven't heard about next up, live music. Tick Tock's biggest music talent show. You're seriously missing out.
- [55:43]
Camille Ludington
Tick Tock Live and iHeartRadio are teaming up to find the next wave of music stars, and they're performing live only.
- [55:49]
Jessica
On TikTok from August 25th to 29th. Watch the semifinalists give it everything they've got in real time.
- [55:57]
Camille Ludington
This is your chance to support your favorite artists and discover the next superstars before they hit the big stage at LA's legendary iHeart Theater this fall.
- [56:06]
Jessica
Follow at TikTokLive. Underscore us on TikTok now and tune in to every performance, every battle, and behind the scenes, your front row seat is just one tap away. Remember, it's at TikTok live underscore us on TikTok.
- [56:22]
Big Three Basketball Announcer (Alternate)
The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's big three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off The Season Season iHeart presents the Big 3 Basketball Championship and 8th Annual Big 3 All Star Game this coming Sunday, August 24th. Live from Orlando, the remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big Three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazir Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new big three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2:00pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on CBS.
- [57:22]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to deals time where you can enjoy storewide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Califia Farms, Pillsbury Crescent, YoPlay, General Mills, Prego, Bertoli, Heinz and Kraft. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [57:58]
Camille Ludington
Did you ever fixate or play back that moment that feels like a big one?
- [58:02]
Jessica
Like if I just got on the plane? Yeah, yeah, if you had, would have been fine. Because I know there's a lot of conversation about you being an American in an Italian court, right. So that was a big part of it. So if you had gone home.
- [58:17]
Amanda Knox
If I had gone home, none of this would have happened. Wow. Because. Because the police did fixate on me from the very beginning, but they had no evidence. Like it was all based on a hunch. They were like, you know, one cop said that I smelled like sex and that and so it didn't seem right or like another, you know, the cops just like had this idea from the beginning that what the crime appeared to be, which was that it was a break in that resulted in a rape and murder. From the beginning they believed that the break in was staged, that the break in wasn't real. And so someone who lived in the house had staged it to cover it up, and that's why they were focusing on me. But even then, they had no proof of that. That was just their hunch.
- [59:03]
Jessica
Yes. So there's no, like, extraditing you to.
- [59:06]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, there's no extraditing me to Italy based on no evidence. And what would have resulted had this gone down is they would have had to. They couldn't have arrested me because they couldn't have interrogated me. They, you know, they put me through this whole incredible thing so that they could arrest me by coercing me into implicating myself and others. But if that had never happened, what would have happened is they would have gotten. They would. Had to wait like a week or two to get the forensic evidence back. And that forensic evidence would have pointed not to me, but to this local burglar. And they would have gone after this local burglar who, by the way, in the meantime, had fled the country and was assumed a false identity because he was the actual murderer and he was on the run. I didn't leave because I was trying to help the police and because I had nothing to hide, of course. And you.
- [59:58]
Jessica
And also that was your friend and you wanted to help find your friend's murderer when you were making this series. I think back to, like, parts of my life that, like, you know, I was dramatized over, and I can't. It would be very hard for me to produce something and watch another actress, like, reenacting these moments that were so painful. Were you worried that you would be re. Traumatized doing a show like this and having to sit and watch all these moments? Again, you know.
- [60:29]
Amanda Knox
I wasn't worried, but what I did find myself surprised by was how cathartic it was because, you know, one, when you're on set, you're surrounded, like, at least, you know, this was a big. This was a big production. Like, Disney really, like, put themselves behind this production and really believed in this story and K.J. steinberg's creative vision for this story. And so, like, there were like, hundreds of people on set, and I would walk in and meet all of these people who were just trying to do it right for the first time. And it was just deeply, deeply moving to me to be around so many, like, talented and thoughtful and artful people who cared so much about getting it right. And in the meantime, like, yes, I am. I'm reliving these terrible experiences, but it's not. It doesn't feel re triggering or re. Traumatizing it feels almost like like the grieving process. Like I was like grieving truly for the first time for this young person that I was and for the friend that I had.
- [61:49]
Camille Ludington
Were you reminded of how strong you are? Well, I mean your strength is incredible.
- [61:56]
Jessica
Well, I also just love that like you were, they took your voice, they took away your voice and you get to have it back and you get to the fact that you're walking on set and people are so worried about getting it right. That must feel like ah, like that moment of like. Yes.
- [62:13]
Amanda Knox
Yeah. I mean it was a huge almost surrey out like surreal relief because of how my voice and my perspective had been treated for so long which was that it was less than nothing, you know, and, and so that was deeply, deeply gratifying. And I felt like I could truly mourn in a way that I hadn't before. But in terms of like how strong I am, like that's one of those things that makes it feel very present today. Because when I like again, I do not think, I don't do not go a day without thinking about everything that happened. And that's in large part because there are moments in my day when I'm met with a challenge like any one of us. And that challenge is immediately put into perspective by the challenges that I have faced in the past and by the things that I've been able to reclaim. Like, you know, you have a four year old daughter. I have a four year old daughter. I have a two, almost two year old son. It can be challenging. Like it, it demands a lot of you as a human being. But what a gift, what a gift to have that opportunity and to like. It does not escape me that, that I ever. That that was almost stolen from me.
- [63:34]
Jessica
Do you have a time when you think about when you will tell your children the story?
- [63:41]
Amanda Knox
Well, I thought I would have more time but because I don't hide anything from my children and because I'm in the middle of working on this TV show about this experience, it's kick started the conversation. My daughter started asking me when she was three. Wow. And she was like, can you mommy, can you tell me the story of when mommy went to Italy? And I believe in being age appropriately transparent with kids and when they ask you a direct question, you should give them a direct answer. And but you know, she's also three and so she lives in the, you know, in the space of like fairy tales. And so I tell it to her almost like it's a fairy tale. Like when mommy was young she Went on an adventure to Perugia, Italy, and she made friends. But then someone hurt her friend, and then they thought mommy hurt her friend, and so they put her in jail. And mommy was really sad and. And. And alone for a long time. But then mommy proved that she was innocent and got to go home. And then she met your daddy, and then we had you, and it's happily ever after, you know, like, that.
- [64:54]
Jessica
Just listening to that, like, makes me so emotional, honestly, because it's. It's just so. I mean, you're wrapping up this extremely traumatic story and sort of making it into this fairy tale so that she can consume it in a way that, like, it's age appropriate and she can kind of understand it. And I just think that that's. As a mom, it's gotta be really hard to do. It must be painful to do.
- [65:19]
Amanda Knox
You know, she makes it easy because, like, as soon as it's a fairy tale now she wants to, like, play pretend, and she want, like, she wants to play pretend. Mommy goes to Italy with me. And so, like, sometimes when we go to the park, like, she'll find, you know, there's like, bars on the park and she'll be like. I'm like, how do you, like, not smile at that? You know, it's just like, you know, she just, like, flips it around on you and you're just like.
- [65:51]
Camille Ludington
But there's a reclaiming of it, right? There's a. There's a reclaiming of it. And there's also that. What I hear you saying is in. Is in the mindset of, like, you know, when. When something that's as important as freedom and privacy is in peril, or you think it might actually go away in perpetuity, you see, you see it differently and you have a different relationship with it. And there's a gratitude that comes just almost immediately. And the mindset does change from, like, I have to go do this thing to I get to do this thing, even if it's a horrible thing on level, or it's some base thing or some, you know, inconsequential thing. Because that very little, small thing like loading the dishwasher.
- [66:37]
Amanda Knox
Yep.
- [66:37]
Camille Ludington
Is. Was something that you couldn't do.
- [66:40]
Amanda Knox
Exactly. Choose what I get to eat for dinner tonight.
- [66:44]
Camille Ludington
I'm so excited to see this series. You should be. I'm actually a little irritated, honestly, because it's not the 20th.
- [66:51]
Jessica
I mean, I'm.
- [66:52]
Amanda Knox
I'm so excited for you to see it because it is so good.
- [66:56]
Jessica
So, you guys, this project is called the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. It is going to air on Hulu August 20th.
- [67:03]
Amanda Knox
Yep.
- [67:03]
Jessica
2025. And you'll be able to binge the whole thing or are they releasing like a couple episodes? Like, how is it?
- [67:09]
Amanda Knox
They're. They're making it difficult for you. So the first two episodes release on the first day, and then every week there's one more episode that comes out.
- [67:16]
Jessica
Oh, they're teasing us.
- [67:17]
Camille Ludington
I think it's smart.
- [67:18]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, I like it. You must wait to binge. You like the. I think the final episode episode comes out on October 1st. But I, you know, I recommend.
- [67:27]
Camille Ludington
So if I wanted to binge, I'd have to wait till then.
- [67:29]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, we're not waiting. But don't wait. Don't wait because it's so good. And honestly, it's like a very intense story. So I almost feel like you are gonna need some time to metabolize.
- [67:40]
Jessica
Yeah.
- [67:41]
Amanda Knox
What you, what you witness before you move on to the next. And in the meantime, there is a trailer out. So if you want to check out the trailer, you can just, just type that up on YouTube and. Okay, great.
- [67:53]
Jessica
Amanda, thank you so much for being here and just being so open with your story. And I cannot wait to watch the show. And I hope you guys are all like, writing it in your calendars right now. August 20th, because it's gonna be amazing.
- [68:07]
Camille Ludington
Yeah. And then I want to have an interactive. I wanna, I truly do. Maybe we'll, we'll figure out how in October.
- [68:12]
Amanda Knox
Okay.
- [68:13]
Jessica
That would be fun.
- [68:14]
Amanda Knox
Yeah.
- [68:14]
Camille Ludington
Meet back here at the same time. Because now I got to know what the, what the letters were like, and then I got to know what the confrontation was like.
- [68:20]
Jessica
I feel like we need a follow up Amanda after the series so we can go back through and just kind of pick your brain on all the stuff.
- [68:26]
Amanda Knox
In the meantime, I recommend checking out my book free My Search for Meaning. So if you're curious and like, get, get in there. And any further questions you have, I'm available.
- [68:37]
Camille Ludington
Great. Amazing. Well, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for being with us.
- [68:41]
Jessica
Such a pleasure.
- [68:42]
Amanda Knox
Take care. Wow.
- [68:45]
Jessica
That was honestly one of my favorite interviews that we've done with anybody.
- [68:48]
Camille Ludington
It's not easy to strike a balance when you're talking about something like this. And, and she struck it. She just is so honest. Her intentions are so clear as she's speaking, what she's doing. I mean, I, I also cannot wait. I'm not joking. I cannot wait to see this show.
- [69:10]
Jessica
No, I can't wait to see it either. I, I think it's so, it's almost like, it's so fascinating because you have watched for so long, like this was the era of like the Nancy Grace, you know, following the, the, all the crimes that were happening at the time. And this, this took on a life of its own. And it almost made her a non person when it was being reported on. It was almost like she was not treated like a human being anymore. And so to be able to even sit with her for an hour after I personally, I mean, I moved here in 2025, I remember in 2007, watching all of this in the U.S. i mean, it was covered daily in the news. And to sit with her for an hour and just talk to her, mom to mom even, I just thought it was incredible.
- [69:57]
Camille Ludington
And my memory of it was also that she was very much a person to me, but she was a one dimensional representation of one.
- [70:06]
Amanda Knox
Because that's what I'm saying.
- [70:07]
Camille Ludington
Pictures of her everywhere. Yeah, I can't. I mean, someone should look up how many People magazine covers she did, right? It was like, it was intense. You saw her blue eyes, you saw her dark Bob. You saw her all the time. But you never heard from her. You never heard her speak. You did. I didn't hear her speak. So to have this now come about and for her to, you know, again, be so smart. And so I'm guessing that her storytelling is going to be incredibly compelling. I'm going to, I'm going to bet on that.
- [70:37]
Jessica
Yeah. Well, she's incredibly compelling, I mean, even in this hour. So to be in charge of a project like this, I love the, the, the idea that it's given her some peace and has felt so empowering. And I want to listen, I want to know the story with the, the prosecutor because I get the feeling that he didn't get up on the roof and say.
- [71:02]
Camille Ludington
Yeah, I know, yeah. And I loved, I loved that she, you know, so much of healing. Healing is what you get. You, you earn healing by grieving. And it sounded like she, she really dipped into that. So I'm, I'm so excited.
- [71:18]
Jessica
Well, it sounds like Grace is Grace.
- [71:21]
Camille Ludington
Oh my gosh, she's such a great actress.
- [71:23]
Jessica
Well, it sounds like she's completely done amazing work with this role, so I can't wait to see her too. All right, guys, we're gonna wrap it up, but don't. For 20th on Hulu, watch the Amanda Knock story and let's call it the.
- [71:37]
Camille Ludington
End of the episode. Hey, can we talk about plan B for a second? What exactly is it?
- [71:53]
Jessica
Okay, Plan B is emergency contraception you take after unprotected sex. Think of it as backup birth control. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation to help prevent pregnancy before it starts.
- [72:06]
Camille Ludington
And it's available right off the shelf.
- [72:08]
Jessica
Yep. It's at all major retailers in all 50 US states. No prescription ID or age requirement.
- [72:16]
Camille Ludington
Ah, together we've got this.
- [72:19]
Jessica
Follow Plan B on Insta at Plan B. One step Use as directed iheart presents.
- [72:26]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
The Big three Playoffs this Sunday. The remaining four teams battle to make the championship in the most physical, fierce and competition competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the big three monster energy celebrity game, then Dwight Howard and his LA riot take on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who will make it to the big three championship. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.
- [72:55]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to Deals time where you can enjoy storewide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Kettle, Haagen, Dazs, M&M's Ritz, Chips Ahoy, Arrowhead, All Poppy Charman and Red Bull. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery subject to availability restrictions. Apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [73:26]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
You think you know Snap Judgment? Yes, it's on npr. It's a podcast. It's storytelling. But Snap has gone deeper. Stranger, Wilder. We've taken you places at the Times. The Rolling Stones, the Ambies, the Webbies, the Gracies, all stood up for. Welcome to the Podcast hall of Fame.
- [73:42]
Camille Ludington
Glenn Washington.
- [73:44]
Big Three Basketball Announcer
Award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes that drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Judgment from KQED every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast, this is.
- [73:56]
Jessica
An I heart podcast.