Call It What It Is: Episode Summary - "Different Stages"

Released on March 4, 2025, "Call It What It Is" is a heartfelt episode hosted by Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington of iHeartPodcasts. In this episode, the hosts delve deep into the often-overlooked topic of friendship breakups, exploring its emotional impact, societal perceptions, and personal experiences.

1. Introduction to Friendship Breakups

The episode opens with Jessica and Camilla addressing a highly requested topic from their audience: friendship breakups. Jessica remarks on the significance of discussing this subject, emphasizing the trust listeners place in the podcast.

Jessica Capshaw [03:17]: "We're talking about friendship breakups. A popular demand."

2. The Pain and Prevalence of Friendship Dissolutions

Jessica introduces intriguing statistics highlighting the fragility of long-term friendships. Referencing a Forbes article, she shares that up to 70% of close friendships dissolve after seven years, a concept she likens to the "seven-year itch" often associated with romantic relationships.

Jessica Capshaw [04:49]: "According to a Forbes article, the research shows that up to 70% of close friendships... dissolve after seven years."

Camilla echoes her shock at these numbers, recognizing the commonality and emotional weight of such dissolutions.

Camilla Luddington [04:29]: "We hear about the seven year itch, right... seven years for a friendship."

3. Personal Experiences with Friendship Breakups

Both hosts share personal anecdotes to illustrate the complexities of ending friendships. Camilla recounts a significant friendship that ended due to her friend's relationship with a problematic partner, highlighting the challenges of maintaining bonds when external relationships interfere.

Camilla Luddington [10:24]: "I had a friend who ended after she started dating someone who... was a little biffy like Biff from Back to the Future."

Jessica discusses her experiences where friendship endings were triggered by specific events rather than gradual drifting, emphasizing the difficulty in processing sudden breaks.

Jessica Capshaw [22:00]: "The only friendship breakups that I have in my life are sort of specific to there having been an event that caused the breakup."

4. Cultural Rituals and the Lack Thereof

Referencing an article from Wondermind by Selena Gomez, Camilla points out the absence of societal rituals surrounding friendship breakups compared to romantic ones. This lack of closure rituals makes it harder for individuals to process and move on from lost friendships.

Camilla Luddington [26:15]: "...friendship breakups are incredibly common and normal and inevitable. But we often personalize it and see it as a failure because it is so unexpected and because it's so uncommonly spoken about."

5. The Emotional Toll and Identity Crisis

Jessica and Camilla explore the profound emotional impact of losing a close friend, likening it to an identity crisis. The loss of a friend who knows one intimately can leave a lasting void, questioning one's self-worth and social standing.

Camilla Luddington [21:08]: "It might be hard for her because I didn't want to be around him... You can't be honest with someone who you are intimate with."

6. Navigating Mutual Friendships and Boundaries

The discussion shifts to the complications that arise when mutual friends are involved in a breakup. Jessica advises setting clear boundaries and seeking support outside the mutual circle to avoid further emotional turmoil.

Camilla Luddington [31:09]: "Sometimes you need to put boundaries and be like, listen, I need to... be Switzerland for just a little bit."

7. Rebuilding and Reconnecting

Both hosts emphasize the possibility of rebuilding friendships after breakups. Jessica shares a positive experience of rekindling a friendship with a college friend, underscoring the potential for healing and renewal.

Jessica Capshaw [33:54]: "I have had rocky roads with some friends, and when it's genuinely a deep relationship, I have found my way back."

8. Coping with Jealousy and New Friendships

The conversation addresses feelings of jealousy when seeing ex-friends form new bonds. Camilla suggests practical steps like muting social media accounts to mitigate these emotions and focus on personal well-being.

Camilla Luddington [57:08]: "You can mute these accounts... There's a mute button."

9. Advice for Maintaining Long-Distance Friendships

Responding to listener questions, Jessica and Camilla offer strategies for sustaining friendships despite physical distance. They advocate for consistent, albeit brief, communication through calls and messages to keep the connection alive.

Jessica Capshaw [38:25]: "Don't let distance ever derail you. I talk to my friends on the phone regularly."

10. Embracing New Friendships and Moving Forward

The hosts encourage listeners to remain open to forming new friendships, even after experiencing breakups. They highlight the resilience of the human spirit and the capacity to find meaningful connections at any stage of life.

Camilla Luddington [59:46]: "You can always find great friendships, and that makes you appreciate the people that stay in your world even more."

11. Conclusion: The Importance of Friendship as Chosen Family

Jessica wraps up the episode by reaffirming the invaluable role of friendships in one's life, likening them to chosen family. She extends a warm invitation to listeners feeling lonely or in between friends, assuring them of ongoing support through the podcast community.

Jessica Capshaw [60:35]: "Friendships are so important. You are our friend."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jessica Capshaw [07:14]: "Plus, in order for you to be in a real relationship... you share your deepest, darkest secrets."

• Camilla Luddington [16:14]: "She didn't say that, but that's sort of the vibe."

• Jessica Capshaw [20:50]: "I find it so much easier to take accountability... it's less successful to look at the other person and be like, you need to do this."

• Camilla Luddington [25:15]: "I think friendships are expected to grow with you, and when they don't, it's shocking."

Key Takeaways

1. Friendship Breakups are Common and Painful: A significant percentage of long-term friendships dissolve, often due to life changes and evolving personal circumstances.

2. Lack of Societal Rituals: Unlike romantic breakups, friendship endings lack societal rituals, making the grieving process more isolating.

3. Emotional Impact Resembles an Identity Crisis: Losing a close friend can lead to a profound sense of loss and self-questioning.

4. Navigating Mutual Friendships Requires Clear Boundaries: Engaging with mutual friends post-breakup necessitates setting boundaries to prevent additional emotional strain.

5. Rebuilding Friendships is Possible: With time and effort, it's possible to reconnect and mend broken friendships.

6. Maintaining Long-Distance Friendships is Feasible: Consistent communication, even minimal, can sustain friendships across distances.

7. Embracing New Connections: Remaining open to new friendships helps in healing and forming meaningful bonds after a breakup.

8. Friendships as Chosen Family: Cherishing friendships as an integral part of one’s support system enhances overall well-being.

Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington provide a compassionate exploration of friendship breakups, offering both empathy and practical advice to listeners navigating the complexities of ending and maintaining friendships. Their candid conversation serves as a valuable resource for anyone grappling with the emotional challenges of lost connections.