Call It Gossip Girls

Summary

Call It What It Is: Episode Summary – "Call It Gossip Girls"

Release Date: March 17, 2025

In the insightful episode titled "Call It Gossip Girls," hosts Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington delve into the multifaceted world of gossip, exploring its origins, benefits, drawbacks, and its evolution in the age of social media. The conversation is both personal and analytical, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of gossip's role in human interactions.

1. Introduction to Gossip

The episode kicks off with Jessica sharing a personal anecdote about discovering a potential lice outbreak at her son's preschool. This scenario sets the stage for discussing how seemingly trivial information can lead to broader conversations within social circles.

Jessica (04:24): "He’s going to need an extension. So it took me, like, you know, a minute to check because it was like, just that strand and it looked fine. And we had moved on with our lives."

2. Defining Gossip: Good vs. Bad

Jessica introduces a thought-provoking headline she encountered about the "surprising benefits of gossip," challenging her long-held belief that gossip is inherently negative. This leads to a discussion on differentiating between harmful gossip and its potential social advantages.

Camilla (14:03): "Gossip on speed. But again, this article was very interesting because I never got the word gossip had already always had a negative connotation."

3. The Evolution of Gossip in the Digital Age

Camilla reflects on her experience with TikTok, highlighting how modern platforms amplify gossip to a global scale, transforming it from a local, interpersonal activity to a widespread phenomenon.

Camilla (09:32): "We have always gossiped amongst themselves. Right. Like in their worlds. And then there’s like the tabloidy gossip... now it’s like your little gossip can be projected across the world."

4. Psychological Perspectives on Gossip

The hosts reference scientific studies and articles to shed light on gossip's role in social bonding and information sharing. They discuss how gossip can enhance relationships by keeping individuals informed about their social environment, thereby fostering trust and cohesion within groups.

Jessica (14:45): "Journal. There is a difference between gossiping well. And gossiping not well."

5. Personal Experiences with Gossip

Jessica and Camilla share their personal experiences, emphasizing their transformation into "good gossips." They discuss how they focus on sharing information that is already public or uplifting, avoiding malicious intent.

Jessica (16:40): "I think I've become a good gossip. I think that I was interested in... having that bring us closer together."

6. Gossip Among Teens: Parenting Challenges

The conversation shifts to the impact of gossip on teenagers. Jessica recounts her proactive approach in addressing rumors at her child's school, illustrating the delicate balance parents must maintain between protecting their children and allowing them autonomy.

Jessica (33:03): "I think it was a journey. I mean, I think it served a purpose. I mean, I think there were things that I learned about doing that... affirmed that what I was doing was the right thing."

Camilla expresses her apprehension about directly confronting other parents, highlighting the complexities and potential defensiveness involved.

Camilla (35:20): "I'm gonna try my hand on the direct calling the bat phone to the parents. I don't recommend it."

7. The Dual Nature of Gossip

Both hosts explore the duality of gossip, acknowledging its potential to both connect and harm. They stress the importance of intention, accuracy, and the potential consequences of sharing information.

Camilla (42:07): "Think twice before you do it. What's your intention? Right, like it's a personal gain."

Jessica (42:20): "You don't put your own little spinneroo on it."

8. Integrating Modern Movements into Gossip

The hosts touch upon movements like #MeToo and speak-up cultures, discussing how these have reshaped the perception of gossip from being solely negative to sometimes being a platform for truth-telling and social justice.

Camilla (30:42): "The Me Too movement has changed perceptions of gossip, as has the rise of speak up cultures and the creation of safe environments where truth can be told."

9. Practical Advice for Navigating Gossip

Jessica offers practical advice for listeners on managing gossip, emphasizing the importance of truthfulness, restraint, and the potential impact on relationships and reputations.

Jessica (30:03): "Then I think you have a real problem. Like, you've got a... there's a heavy load to that kind of thing."

10. Concluding Thoughts and Listener Engagement

The episode wraps up with a lighthearted sidebar discussing popular TV shows like "White Lotus," illustrating the pervasive nature of gossip in media and its reflection of real-life dynamics. The hosts invite listeners to share their thoughts on whether gossip can be good and how it functions as a bonding experience.

Jessica (43:02): "Is it a bonding experience? Are you able to do it with integrity and..."

Camilla (43:09): "And has this podcast in any way opened your eyes? The idea of it being able to be good."

Notable Quotes

• Jessica (08:02): "Showering fixed lice. They don't, you need the special shampoo."
• Camilla (18:35): "Loose lips sink relationships."

Closing Remarks

Jessica and Camilla conclude the episode by reiterating the complex nature of gossip, acknowledging its unavoidable presence in human interactions while advocating for mindful and ethical communication practices.

Jessica (47:41): "We think we can. Good gossip. But, you know, it's gonna pack a punch."

Camilla (47:46): "But that's because we hold each other's secrets. Like, like I know when I'm being told information..."

This episode of "Call It What It Is" provides a nuanced exploration of gossip, blending personal stories with research-backed insights. Jessica and Camilla encourage listeners to reflect on their own gossip habits, promoting a balanced view that recognizes both the social benefits and potential harms of gossip.

Transcript

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[A]

An iHeartRadio podcast.

[B]

Foreign crew, and welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is.

[A]

Call it what It Is.

[B]

Can I talk about the. My. My few minutes running up to me, hopping on here?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So it's the afternoon in Los Angeles and my. My son, he's in preschool, comes home from school, and he walks through the door and I'm like, you know, like, snuggle in your hair, like, nuzzle him. Lots of kisses all over the head. Let's do, you know, little Eskimo eyelash kisses, you know, just so close and delicious together. And my phone's like, ping. And I'm like, okay. So I look at this, I'm like, oh, it's an email from the school. And it's like, hi, your kid might have lice. I've definitely, like, rubbed my entire set of extensions all over him.

[A]

The Silkwood shower. I'm surprised you didn't go. You surprised you didn't cancel and go straight for the Silkwood Shower?

[B]

Well, he's in the shower as we speak. Matt was. I was like, matt. But I spent my time like, thank God. The Ludington jeans give you about one strand of hair. Right? So it's like that.

[A]

Checking. Don't have.

[B]

He's going to need extension. So I. It took me, like, you know, a minute to check because it was like, just that strand and it looked fine. And we had moved on with our lives.

[A]

One of the funniest memes you ever. Or gifts, whatever they are called. Yeah, Funniest ones you've ever. When we were going back and forth about how we feel with it without extensions, was you saying that after getting them out? Well, the meme you sent me was of Gollum. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That is, in fact, Gollum has more hair.

[A]

And then I thought it was so funny. I actually went searching for more Gollum memes, GIFs, whatever. And sometimes he has a comb over.

[B]

So sometimes that's the one I'm thinking about. I'm thinking of the comb over. Yeah.

[A]

So you're thinking the Ludington hair.

[B]

The Ludington hair is Gollum. But also the email said, you know, like, of course they have to be diplomatic. And they're like, you know, a kid has gone. Yeah, yeah, they're not going to tell me who. So Matt and I are doing this like casual interrogation of a four year old and we're like, was anyone like a little bit sick today? Like, were they at school and then not at school, but it's like, you know, Lucas is so annoying and he'll be like a T. Rex came today. So it's like the L. And he was like that. You know, he's mentioning one kid that's not in school and we're like, was he in school a little bit though? He's like, no, not. And it's like we're in. It's a full blown interrogation. We got no information. He didn't give us anything. But he's in the shower right now.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I, I wish I could tell you that showers fixed lice.

[B]

They don't you need the special shampoo? No, I remember the smell of the shampoo when I was a kid. Do you remember the lice shampoo? It was like.

[A]

I mean, not anymore, but I was a real blonde at one point and lice on real blondes is harder.

[B]

Oh, really? Because I was thinking that we were lucky. You know what I did because they're a little bit translucent.

[A]

Yeah. You can't see them.

[B]

Yeah, I remember.

[A]

I love you, Mom. I remember being left to my own devices with that. Like I remember that when I had it.

[B]

Yeah. Like, here's the comb, here's the shampoo.

[A]

Have at it. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's all but like Raid, right? Like it's. It's Raid in a bottle.

[B]

You just spray your. No, it is. We do have raid. We do have Raid. That is a good idea.

[A]

That's not what you should do. I'm. I joke.

[B]

This is a joke disclaimer not to do this.

[A]

Here's what I can tell you is if the. Well, I will say this is actually practical advice from a mother of four. If in fact there is a chance that he could have it. The upholstery is really challenging to get lice out of. So, you know, maybe just put him in a plastic bag and carry him around the house. Just don't let him touch anything. No couches for him.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Maybe. Maybe he sleeps outside tonight.

[B]

I like the dog bed. The dog bed.

[A]

Yeah. If you're willing to wash it. But yeah, you could just throw it. But you can't take off the COVID and wash it in the, in the, in the, you know, washing machine. Yeah, it's really rough.

[B]

Well, I'm crossing my fingers that that is that we're fine. The one strand so far looks clean to me. And it's being shampooed right now.

[A]

Yeah. Great. In a very high temperature of water. Doesn't matter, by the way.

[B]

No, it doesn't. They love that.

[A]

They'Re doing the backstroke in the shower.

[B]

It's like a hot tub. Okay. How was your afternoon? Tell me before we dive in.

[A]

Well, you know, we talked about this before. Spring is springing here. And so I have a spring in my step, and I am. If you are seeing me on camera, I'm in a cardigan and hold on, a tank top.

[B]

Wow. I know. It's your favorite season.

[A]

It's miracle season.

[B]

It is. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But is it still cold there or. No. Now it's like gonna.

[A]

You would come here and be.

[B]

It's freezing. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But it's not that cold. And spring is springing, and I feel it coming around the corner. And not to get too, you know, mystical about things, but I do really think that spring is a chance and an opportunity for new beginnings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not just in the physical world, but in your own ideas about things. And I have felt really grateful because there's been a lot of things, like, sort of swirling around me that have to do with some opportunities. Well, so I'm good.

[B]

I know that. I know. We can't say more. We can't say more. Yeah. But, but that's good. I, I, I agree. I think I, I think spring has that, like, a little magic in the air. This is how I feel about fall, too, obviously, Christmas. But, like, I do. I feel like there's a little, like, who? It's coming.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Also, before I got on, because this leads into our episode, I was on the old Tick Tock. Right. Because I've, I'm less on Instagram and I'm more on Tick Tock. And you know, me, this is Skinny Bob the alien. I get sucked down these little holes. Right. And I realized how gossipy Tick Tock is.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

And I, I'm getting sucked into all this gossip that has nothing to do with me. I'm like, people, you know, like, people are splitting that I don't even, you know, in Indiana. I have no idea. You don't even know ants on Tick Tock. Now I'm involved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I thought about.

[A]

Yeah. And they wanted, they were actually, quite frankly, they would like for you to be involved and maybe have a voice in it.

[B]

Yes. And I thought about how. Well, what do you want to introduce our subject? Because then I want to lead into what I thought.

[A]

Yeah, I mean today we're talking about, I saw a headline last week which we'll talk about, but we're talking about gossip.

[B]

Yes. And I felt like, oh, we are in the new era, especially with Tik Tok of global gossip on a scale that we've never seen before. Obviously there's been tabloids. I. Yes. And I feel like the tabloidy part of stuff was always like, you know, Michael Jackson, whoever it was, was like, you know. But now I really feel like yourself there. Well, yeah, because I'm thinking of those like National Enquirers too that were like, you know, this is a lie yourself.

[A]

Well there's by the way, National Enquirer had quite a few alien articles.

[B]

So maybe I don't know about that.

[A]

It's where you're, it's where your affections, where it started began.

[B]

But what I, what I think social media does is now on a very on it does. You don't have to be this crazy celebrity like Elvis Presley now it's like you can get on social media on TikTok and you can gossip about what just went down at the wedding you went to. And I'm like, oh, oh no. It's like scaled up in our world.

[A]

Yeah. People you don't even know.

[B]

But it's all story.

[A]

Right. Like that's the thing that I thought was interesting. So, so the origin story of us having this conversation was that a headline grabbed my eye which was the surprising benefits of gossip because I actually always, I have relegated gossip to a very negative category. I've always been like gossip is terrible, you should not gossip. And you know, when you gossip bad things happen and whatever. So I was sort of just, I was taken by this headline and I really wanted to understand why or how there were surprising benefits to gossip. And I think it's very interesting. So I shared it with you and then we were talking about our own relationships to gossip. And, and by the way, I want to be very, very clear as we talk about the benefits of gossip which really bottom line have to do with going back to kind of a, like our earlier origins and like tribal behavior where we were got to live in clans and groups that were tight knit and small. Like it was our way of socializing and bo, you know, we like kibitzing and talking about our days and having that bring us closer together. There's also another version of gossip thing that's you know, can, can border on distracting bullying. Right. Like oh yeah, gossip about someone that's not true. But I think that, I think that the surprising benefits of gossip would be far more in the category of true information. Passing it on and then creating a relationship around new news that's not being given to you from a news outlet that might have a, might or might not have an agenda, but really from a person. So you're saying yours was from Tick Tock. So I guess that's kind of different because that is.

[B]

Well, I'm just, I, I think I was just thinking about, you know, being on Tick Tock and the fact that gossip has, has again, it's like just, it's, it's at another level at this point. Yes. We have always, you know, everybody's always gossiped amongst themselves. Right. Like in their worlds. And then there's like the tabloidy gossip like blah, blah, I might be pregnant or you know, splitting up or having an affair. There's always been, that's kind of a dopamine hit.

[A]

Right. It's like a little exciting and you feel like you're in on something.

[B]

You feel like. Yes. But now Tick Tock is, what I'm saying is our little gossip that we've always done can be projected across the world. And now there's thousands of people involved in your little gossip. I'm saying it's like gossip on speed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But again, this article was very interesting because I never got the word gossip had already always had a negative connotation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If anyone had ever called me a gossip, I would have found it like not a great compliment.

[A]

Well, well, okay, hold on. Because in this article they go on to talk about, and this is like the scientific, you know.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Journal. There is a difference between gossiping well. Yes. And gossiping not well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And those that gossip well are seen as holders of information. And as we know, in any system or you know, so I mean a social system or other, those who have the tea, they're the popular ones. They're the ones you go to. I mean, think about it. In a, in a social system, in a work system, you identify who has the information and then who's willing to share it. Yes.

[B]

And I think it's the way, I think it's the way people share the information. Are you sharing it in a reckless way or are you using it actually in a positive way? So NBC broke this down because I was thinking, well, what are examples? I couldn't think of examples where like how is it beneficial to gossip? And they gave a couple and they said, for example, when you find out the person your friend has a crush on, has a bad reputation for cheating. You let your friend know not to hurt your friend as a warning. And I was like, oh, yeah, so that's, yes, it's considered gossip, but like you're giving someone a heads up or another example NBC gave was you find out someone in your company is not a team player and you let other co workers know that, know that and so they can try and avoid, you know, working with that colleague. And. But I think you, I think that people that gossip well, quote unquote, it's about strategy too. Because listen, if you say something about someone in your company and it gets back to them, that could be an issue. So it's, it's, there's a lot involved in gossiping.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

Do you think that you would consider yourself a good gossip or a bad gossip? I've had my moments with both.

[A]

I think that makes us human. I would answer to you that. I feel again, well, I definitely think that I, I think that gossip is a negative word. But if I'm going to open up my mind to the idea that maybe it's not. Yes, I feel that I have evolved into a good gossip and the things that I like to gossip around are things that if it's in like pop culture that that person has already like thrown up what they want people to talk about on their own, like through a reality show or through, you know, a decision to date so and so and yes, go out on such and such night or like it's good gossip, it's fun gossip. It's like, oh, who's going out with who and what are they wearing? And is that cute? And I, and I'm just. Well, we already know. I don't skew towards, you know, the, I don't skew towards the taking, taking down of people. So I think I've become a good gossip. I thought that this was interesting there. So in the women's. Women's Health magazine also did an article and I thought that it was very interesting that whether you think you're a good gossip or not is actually not the point. Because we are all gossips.

[B]

Yes. They're like, hey, guess what?

[A]

Yeah, you all are.

[B]

Everyone is.

[A]

And they said there are no people in this world who, who do not. There are no people in this world who do not gossip. Some just gossip better than others. And I tend to think of gossip as a social skill. If you are a good gossiper, you're usually a pretty popular person. You have a reputation for knowing what's going on. And if you're a bad gossiper, it can be quite the opposite. But there's no such thing as somebody who doesn't gossip. Only those who gossip well and those who don't. Ooh.

[B]

But here's the thing. Here's a. I do think loose lips. Sink.

[A]

Sink chips.

[B]

Right? So it is hard because not in order to be a good gossip, you have to, you know, figure out what information. And by the way, one of the things that they say, this NBC, NBC says is that a bad gossip is when you're gossiping for personal gain.

[A]

I think that that's a terrible person who's gossiping for their own benefit.

[B]

I'm sure I've gossiped for my own benefit at some point.

[A]

When have you done that?

[B]

I can't think of what it is. Listen, if here's, here's what I probably done and I'm talking like way back in high school, if I found out that someone had a crush on someone and I had a crush on that guy and I could slightly torpedo that. I can't. Yes, but. And I'd be like, oh, God, you know, that she.

[A]

Would you make it up?

[B]

No, no, no, not make it up. I would just, I'd be like, yeah, I heard she's, you know, do with that what you will. And then I, you know, be waiting in the wings. But yeah, yeah, I can't think of a specific example. But do I put it past me in my high school years to not have done this and been a head? Yeah. No. 100% future health gives millions access to affordable weight loss meds like Ozempic and Semaglutide for less than three bucks a day. Weight loss medications can cost over $11,000 a month, but with Future Health, they can make it four times cheaper. You just take a quick three minute survey and if approved, boom. Your meds are delivered right to your door within 24 hours for free. If you struggle with your weight and feel like nothing is working to lose a couple pounds, weight loss medication like Ozempic may be a good fit for you. If you can't handle needles, you can try an oral Semaglutide, same active ingredient as Ozempic. With Future Health, there's no insurance needed. Everything is online and medication is shipped to Your door within 24 hours with free shipping, there are so many perks to being a Future Health member. Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just three minutes at try fh.com that's trifh.com try f h.com results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed. A provider's discretion let's Call it what it Is. Owning a cute bra and panty set that fits just right and can be worn all day makes it easier for you to feel sexy and confident.

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[A]

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[A]

And I honestly. Strategy stresses me out. You and I talk about this a lot. You and I talk about this a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This morning when we were talking, I was telling you about something and you were like, I'm.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

You're playing this. I'm not. And I was like, wait, no, no, no, no. I.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you were like, I don't know.

[B]

I just. You know, I love you, so I'm always gonna be like, just make sure that you're being careful.

[A]

And who appreciates you more than me? No one. Yeah, I. Yes, I need that.

[B]

See, I think that we. I think we are a. I'm gonna toot our own horns here. Me and you gossip real good.

[A]

Yeah, I think so too.

[B]

But that's because we hold each other's secrets. Like. Like I know when I'm being told information, whether it's about you or somebody else. I know when I need to really safeguard it. To be honest, whatever you tell me doesn't go any further.

[A]

Anyway, I just flashed on actually my least favorite part of gossip. This is. This is a rule that I actually will never break. Are you ready?

[B]

Okay. What is it?

[A]

Yeah, no, if I have a friend, I'm gonna put friend in air quotes.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

If I have a friend who comes to me and says so and so said such and such about you, but you can't tell them that I told you. That is a curse. I find that that friend is not a friend because at a certain point, you have to take accountability. And if you want to tell me something that someone has said about me that's horrible, then I do think you need to let me take care of it.

[B]

Okay, so let me ask you this question, because this is very interesting. What would you. If that person. Okay. Say I've heard something about somebody else. Some. Someone said something about you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's hard. It's a hard situation for me because, I mean, anyone that would said anything bad about you, if I directly heard it, I would have to say. Yeah, I would just. I wouldn't have any filter. Would you rather not know then?

[A]

If I can't do something about it? I would rather not know.

[B]

What if it's back pocket information, though, that's important for you to know? Like, let me give you a scenario. You're working a job, and the producer above you has said something behind your back. Like, I don't. You know, she always does this thing on camera, and it really bugs me. And. And then someone comes to you and says, hey, this is what I've heard. Obviously, I don't want you to go to the producer and be like that Rampant has told me, but, like, you can pocket the information. Is that scenario okay with you, or would you rather not know?

[A]

I'd rather not know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if I. Because I can't do anything about it, and I mean, obviously the rational adult thing would be that that producer should come to me and say, I really don't. I'm. I've got. Hey, I mean, whatever. In whatever nice and kind way. Like, hey, this thing is that. That's. By the way, that's called collaborating.

[B]

Okay. You have something that I don't have. You have teens and tweens in your house. So let's talk about learning to be a gossip, which is what they're doing in high school and they're all doing. And they're all doing in middle school. Are there moments where, like, how. How are you dealing with that? Like, what are those conversations?

[A]

Like, sometimes I'm gonna be real real for a second. I'm actually real real all the time. But let's just be real real about something I think is probably not popular to be real real about. Because it's hard to reckon. As much as we get a hit of dopamine and excitement about good news, like, we get so excited. We're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. This is gonna happen. And my friend got this, or I got this, or whatever. I don't know what it is. We need some scientists to come on and talk to us about it. But I do believe that there's also a weird that you get from hearing something bad. Like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When you hear something like so and so did such and such, and you're like, but it's kind of thrilling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it doesn't feel like, oh, no, I can't tell anyone.

[B]

It's only when that person is already sort of on your naughty list.

[A]

I wish I could say that sometimes there's, like, really nice people that I mean, again, this is probably more high school. No.

[B]

Because if someone said something mean, gossipy about you, I'd have to cut a. Do you know what I'm saying?

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

So you have to be on my spicy list for me to get a little thrill.

[A]

Yeah. My possible takedown list. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Or you don't know them at all. Like, they're on tick tock. You don't even. You've never. You don't know them.

[B]

I'm guilty of this. That's what I just did. I was getting thrills and smells. Yes. I was loving it.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know them, but I'm like, oh, he broke up with her. Like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

So are you teaching your girls, like, just to be aware of the thrill of like, group bad gossiping, like, group talking?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, obviously that. Yes. Because I do believe very deeply that there are no secrets in life. I do not believe secrets. I really don't. I. I mean.

[B]

Well, what does that mean, though?

[A]

Like, anything that you think do say pass on is discovered. Whether it's discovered tomorrow, in a week, a month, two years, 10 years on, like at the end of your life, I have no idea. But most secrets get out. Like, the secrets come out to the top. And I think what I, what I meant to introduce when I said that you get a thrill from hearing bad gossip is that you need to just kind of recognize that in yourself as, like, nothing's wrong with you, you just heard something kind of thrilling. And what happens next is what's most important. Because if you hear that information and then you pick up your phone and blast it off to four more people or, I mean, let's be honest, in this day and age, like thousands.

[B]

On tick tock. Yeah, you put it on tick tock.

[A]

Then I think you have a real problem. Like, you've got a. You should. There's a heavy load to that kind of thing. Like a, like you should have a conscious about that. And also, like, you're not fact checking. Like, like, why are we passing off bad information? Right. Or information that could hurt someone or be negative. So I think that there's bad gossip and then there's fun and exciting and connective and bonding gossip. And that's what I think that I was interested in when I, you know, was going down the rabbit hole of reading this BBC article and the Scientific American article. And it was just, you know, I was like, I get it.

[B]

Yeah. There's one, there's one thing that really also interested me in that BBC article and that was because I hadn't thought about this. It says the Me Too movement has changed perceptions of gossip, as has the rise of speak up cultures and the creation of safe environments where truth can be told.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I found that very fascinating because I do think that what could have been perceived as gossip before is now sharing of the truth.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And I, I've seen in many Ways in my own life since. Me too, personally. Things change where people speak up about stuff.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And it would have been considered gossipy before to be like, you know what? This just happened, and I. Or I saw this or, you know, so that. That was interesting because I never thought about that.

[A]

Yeah, I think when you're younger, you really need to think about how you talk about people, and for some reason, it's really hard, but I really do. I mean, you were asking about what the. The teenagers and the tweens. I just. I think it's so. It's so hurtful and so damaging when, you know, a story is put out there about you and. And then it catches fire.

[B]

And have you had a situation where one of the kiddos or have you seen a situation like this has happened where somebody has a kiddo's been talked about, and then the parents feel like they have to intervene with the other parents? Like, what are you doing? Are you calling the other parents at some point and being like, dude, lock it down? I know, like, that's what I want to do.

[A]

I don't know what version of. Of Capsha I'm in right now. Like, if I'm like 2.0, 3.0, I'm not sure, but 1.0 at the beginning of my child. My having children journey. Yeah, I was absolutely. Like, if I heard the rumors. Rumors, Yeah, I was. I mean, I had, like, a bat phone. It went straight to the source. I'd call principals. I'd call.

[B]

I love this. Okay, so I want to hear. I want to hear the outcome of that. Was it beneficial?

[A]

It was a journey. I mean, I think I. I think it was. It served a purpose. I mean, I think there were things that I learned about doing that that were. That. That affirmed that what I was doing was the right thing. And then there were things that were.

[B]

A little bit, like, unhinged, a little bit scary if I called you, because I know there's a lot of people listening that have teens and have tweens. And this is. This is hard, right? If I call you and I say, I've just heard this rumor about my kid, these. These girls are gossiping. These boys are gossiping. What is your. What would your advice? You. You've gone through this. You're like the oracle to me.

[A]

Not quite, but, I mean, I do. As hard as it is to see your kid unhappy, or if your kids, even the one that's like, you know, on the chopping block, you gotta let them be unhappy.

[B]

Are you doing a. Let them for the gossiping. Maybe it's a Mel Robbins like, let him, let him talk.

[A]

And well, you know, it's funny, I heard, I heard, I don't know whose sage wisdom this is, but I heard it on a podcast that actually Betsy Brown Braun was talking on and she said something. I mean, I can skew. I'm far less anxious than I used to be, but I certainly can imagine all the things that could go wrong in any situation. So I do have to steel myself against the worry. And she said something that made a lot of sense to me and it was that you need to prepare your child for the path. Right? You need to prepare your child for the path in front of them, the way that they're going to grow and move, move along in this world. You can't prepare the path for the child. You can't be like ahead of them, like clearing the bushes and like talking to the parents.

[B]

Yeah, you know me, I'm a clear.

[A]

Well, I just told you so was I. I can do that. And, and then I can also do this incredibly self unaware thing where I'm like, oh no, no, no, I'm not preparing the path and I'm literally wearing like a backpack blower. Yeah. Carrying a rake.

[B]

You're like that patch. I just cleared it a little. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

I was just doing like my weekly maintenance. It wasn't for that kid. I wasn't doing it for them. I was just doing it because I, I mean I just saw it, I.

[B]

Needed to fix it.

[A]

Ah, it's so hard though. It's so, so, so, so hard.

[B]

I think that I'm gonna try my hand. I mean, it's gonna happen at some point. I'm gonna hate it, but I'm gonna try my hand on the direct calling the bat phone to the parents.

[A]

I don't recommend it.

[B]

Really. Wait, is it because the parents are so defensive when you do something like that and they're like, not my, not my Cindy.

[A]

Yes. And ultimately the reason why I think you don't is because you have no idea. I mean they, they, they could be collaborative and they could, but they also couldn't. And I think ultimately again, if you're going back to that child centered idea and navigation, they should be the one figuring it out. So if they're at school and so and so's. I mean, again, all of this is to say to a point, right? Like if there's an extreme situation where people are, you know, doing something very harmful or anyone's mental health is at risk, then this is a different situation totally.

[B]

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[A]

I think the whole list, like the 8 out of 10 times was that they were super responsive. And. And we're like, huh, huh? Oh, yes. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And then somehow within two to three days had, you know, gone and done their due diligence and come back and been like, oh, my gosh. I mean, well, Johnny just said that didn't happen. And it's always that. It's always like. And then they went to their kid and it just didn't happen. And it's like, what are you going to do? You're. Is anyone you want to send your kid to school with a GoPro?

[B]

Sure. They're going to hate to see me coming.

[A]

Yeah, they're like, they've got the wire. They're wearing the wire. Like, I'm taking my. Sending my kid to school with the wire. God, I don't think I'm doing that.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I might want to, but I'm not going to.

[B]

I don't know. This is so hard, Johnny, because we all know Johnny did it.

[A]

We know Johnny did it. Of course Johnny did it.

[B]

Okay, I think we can end this conversation on three ways that were quoted by psychologists that are ways when you can get better at gossiping. So think twice before you do it. What's your intention? Right, like it's a personal gain. Is it Camilla trying to torpedo us? Another girl to get the guy?

[A]

I can't unknow that about you. Now, do you think Twice.

[B]

About the gossip. You don't gossip for personal gain is the other one. And then the third is you don't distort the information. Tell it like it is. You don't put your own little spinneroo on it.

[A]

Right. Well, that's like the game of telephone.

[B]

I know. And it is hard because sometimes, you know, you can add a little flare.

[A]

I know. Because we're storytellers. What can we say?

[B]

Storytellers.

[A]

Sometimes we need to add a little embellishment. Sometimes the story is kind of boring. I know. We're just helping the story because also you.

[B]

I. I think I have to add flair because you flat out tell me that my story is boring.

[A]

God, sometimes they are, but most of the time they aren't.

[B]

Thank you. Hit us in the comments for this, because I want to know if you guys have ever thought of gossiping as good. I think this is a conversation that could be had.

[A]

Yeah. Is it a bonding experience? Are you able to do it with integrity and. And.

[B]

And has this podcast in any way opened your eyes? The idea of it being able to be good.

[A]

Would you like to be a bigger and better gossip because of this episode?

[B]

Yeah. I hope no one's thinking, like, you know what? I'd like to be a little worse.

[A]

I'm taking people down tomorrow left and right. Have you been watching the White Lotus?

[B]

Yes, I. Oh, you know what? That is a great example, Jessica.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of gossip.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But it gives me hives because I. I've also heard. I don't know where I heard this, but I heard friend groups of three never really work.

[A]

You should never do it. Get rid of one of you if that's where you're at. Sorry. You gotta vote one of them off the island. Yeah. Like, you know what? Here's the thing. That friendship trio is, you know, if it reminded me of that saying, like, if you're not at the table, then you're on the menu.

[B]

Oh, well, I don't like that.

[A]

Well, I know. I'm never gonna leave the table again. I'm gonna have to wear diapers to dinner.

[B]

No, we're never leaving the table. And we're also just not gonna. We can't get a third.

[A]

I also. Yeah, I. I mean, I don't need a third. No. Gosh, no. You know, I get jealous anyways. I don't want a third.

[B]

We don't need a third. We don't need a third. No, but that's a great example of gossiping. But when I watch that show, their particular dynamic because the Trump scene and everything, just the whole thing.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Stressful side looks.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. And where. I don't know where Parker Posey's going, but I just feel like she's gonna get swallowed by the ocean soon.

[B]

Yes, but by the way, great example of bad gossip.

[A]

Yeah. I think we got there through Schwarzenegger. He's really good at playing this part.

[B]

I definitely want to punch him.

[A]

I wanna. He is the douchiest of douches, and he's. I think. I mean, I'm. I'm gonna go down a limb here. I don't know him. This is not a personal assessment. I think he knows it. Like, I think he's really playing it. I don't think that's him.

[B]

He's having so much fun.

[A]

I think he's. I mean, those sunglasses, the whole thing. So weird to his sister, like, which is.

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

It's so weird. But also, what's the younger brother doing? And is he, like. I feel like he's waiting to kiss her too.

[B]

It's all gross. But wait, I have to. I have to just sidebar this really quick. When I was in high school, the boys used to dress kind of like that. And it's so gross that now I. I. It gives me heebie jeebies to see the collar. If you look like you're to play golf, but you are not playing golf. It just. It really.

[A]

A little American Psycho.

[B]

Yeah, it's gross.

[A]

Well, the sunglasses, the shirt, the whole thing. There's also. I. I always forget that in White Lotus. I need to just be ready to see someone's butt.

[B]

Did we see a butt? We did see a butt. Whose butt did we see?

[A]

We saw Schwarzenegger butt. We saw.

[B]

Did see Schwarzenegger butt.

[A]

I saw some boobs in my last one.

[B]

Whose boobs did you see? We saw. Oh, yeah, the dad. That was a great moment when the dad. The. The robe opens up and the. The. The. The undercarriage was all revealed. No, I'm finding why Lotus more stressful this season. Like. Like, I'm really stressed out by the undercarriage, by all of it, by the polo shirt.

[A]

But also, I'm stressed out because I know that something terrible is gonna happen soon, and I don't know when or where or who.

[B]

Okay, so before we leave this podcast, we've done a little sidebar.

[A]

Who do you think is.

[B]

Who do you think is gonna die on the white Lotus?

[A]

I think it's gonna be one of the. The ladies.

[B]

I think it's gonna be Parker Posey.

[A]

Well, she's already been foreshadowing again. Being swallowed by the ocean. I don't know. I think it might be a Leslie Bibb or a. Or a Carrie Coons. Maybe a Michelle Moni. I don't know. Maybe one of them.

[B]

I think that. I think that the. The Mom Parkiposie is not going to have been shot. Even though we see her floating and there's gunshots, I think that she's gonna have OD'd on Laura as a pan because she loves those.

[A]

She does.

[B]

She does love them. All right, I digress. Call it. Crew, hit up our comments. Who do you think is going to die in the White Lotus? But also gossiping. Have you ever thought of gossip as a good thing?

[A]

And should we gossip more here on Call it what it is?

[B]

I think we might listen. If you want us to gossip. Jessica and I can.

[A]

Well, yeah, we can. And like I said, we think we can. Good gossip. But, you know, it's gonna pack a punch. All right, let's call it the end of the episode. It.