Call It Short & Sweet: Socialites, Spa Nights, and Skirt Heights

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Call It What It Is
Episode: Call It Short & Sweet: Socialites, Spa Nights, and Skirt Heights
Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Jessica Capshaw & Camilla Luddington (iHeartPodcasts)

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Overview

In this lively, candid "Short & Sweet" episode, real-life BFFs Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington (known for their camaraderie on and off Grey’s Anatomy) riff on the latest headlines, trends, and truths about age-defying fashion, evolving personal style, luxury maximalism, and the surprising hazards of wellness spa nights. Rooted in wit and warmth, their banter offers both honest self-reflection and relatable laughs, inviting listeners to question outdated rules and embrace confidence at any age.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Age, Fashion, and Rejecting Outdated Rules

(03:33 – 11:20)

• TikTok’s “Rejecting Your Age” movement gets a spotlight—the hosts break down cultural expectations around how women “should” dress after a certain age.
• Sparkle after 40? Glitter eyeshadow? Short skirts? Capshaw and Luddington humorously debunk arbitrary fashion “expiration dates.”
• Jessica shares her irritation at restrictive beauty standards:

  “Why is there an expiration date on some of these fun things?”
  —Jessica (07:25)

• Camilla recounts how childhood perceptions of “40” differ from present-day women, highlighting how the youngest Golden Girls character was only 53.
• Both lament and poke fun at the generational divides—like how millennials' ankle socks are now considered “old” by Gen Z standards.

2. Evolving Personal Style & “Hot” Outfits

(06:53 – 11:20)

• Jessica describes reclaiming her right to wear mini skirts:

  “I threw on the shortest little mini skirt…I felt so cute out my little mini skirt. There may have been a butt cheek out or two, but I was loving my life.”
  —Jessica (08:34)

• Camilla reflects on adjusting style with changing trends, like moving from fitted clothes to oversized, following her teenage daughters’ cues.
• A discussion on how changing silhouettes and generational style shifts can challenge women’s personal fashion ruts.

3. Media Representation & New Icons

(06:55 – 08:20, 18:36 – 20:03)

• Praise for how the media is evolving, showcasing beauty—without age constraints—on magazine covers and in campaigns.
• Jessica and Camilla now find style influence in women in their 50s, rather than just the young or “trendy.”

4. Confidence, Body Image & Self-Compassion

(15:39 – 17:35)

• Both hosts note a peak in self-confidence and fashion experimentation in their 40s compared to their 30s.
• Camilla admits she used to critique her own photos harshly; now she feels more relaxed and preferably doesn't linger on images, relying on self-trust.

  “I’m better at being my own friend.”
  —Camilla (17:32)

5. The “Maximalist Socialite” Trend & Fashion Accessibility

(17:39 – 21:57)

• Discussion of the rise in maximalist fashion: pearls, sunglasses, logos, and “rich girl” glam on a non-rich-girl budget.
• Both question the excessive exclusivity and costliness of these trends. Jessica fondly recalls the Rachel Zoe years, layering accessories, but admits the maximalist trend doesn’t currently resonate with her personal style.
• Camilla describes using Pinterest and social media for outfit inspiration and how practical, repeatable “inspos” help as a busy mom.

6. Friendship and Fashion SOS

(21:57 – 22:48)

• Jessica proves herself the go-to fashion “911” for Camilla, always ready with links and outfit ideas.

  “When I send you... What should I wear for this event? You are... You've already sent me four links. And they're always good.”
  —Camilla (21:57)

7. The Realities of “Wellness” Birthday Parties

(25:40 – 32:55)

• Jessica spots the trend of birthday parties swapping bottomless mimosas for sound baths and spa nights, applauding the idea of feeling better after the party than before.

• Camilla shares a hilarious, cringe-inducing story about going solo to a “wellness” bathhouse in NYC, only to find it was a dimly-lit, couple-centric space with “frog-legged” floaters and awkward social pressures.

  “This is like a Sex and the City episode.”
  —Jessica (31:12)

• Jessica concludes that, at least in this scenario, bottomless mimosas might win over wellness awkwardness.

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• On fashion rules and sparkle:

  “Apparently it's aging gracefully where… we're not supposed to, like, stand out… I’m gonna stand out.”
  —Jessica (04:07)

• On confidence in your 40s:

  “I feel so much cuter at 41 than I did in my 30s at any point in my 30s.”
  —Jessica (16:26)

• On self-acceptance:

  “I’m better at being my own friend.”
  —Camilla (17:32)

• On the spa night misadventure:

  “I was going to die and I didn’t know where the escape hatch was… This is not a wellness Jessica night.”
  —Camilla (30:49)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 03:33 | Kicking off: Age & fashion rules on TikTok | | 04:26 | Glitter eyeshadow rule & sparkle stories | | 06:53 | Golden Girls’ real ages vs. age perception | | 08:20 | Jessica’s “still hot” outfit—mini skirt comeback | | 10:03 | Generational style shifts: ankle socks, oversized trend | | 15:39 | Peaking confidence in 40s | | 17:39 | Socialite maximalism and accessibility | | 21:57 | Fashion friendship SOS: Jessica as style guru | | 25:40 | Wellness birthdays vs. past party habits | | 27:00 | Camilla’s disastrous solo spa night | | 31:12 | Jessica: "This is a Sex and the City episode" | | 34:28 | Vowing to do an awkward spa night together |

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Tone & Style

Jessica and Camilla maintain a tone that is irreverent, energetic, and empathetic. They seamlessly blend insight with humor and aren’t afraid to poke fun at themselves or challenge cultural expectations. The dynamic is warm, supportive, and filled with best-friend energy—making every topic accessible, honest, and highly relatable.

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For new and returning listeners, this episode offers laugh-out-loud moments and genuine wisdom about aging, confidence, the power of friendship, and wearing whatever makes you feel good—glitter and butt-cheek-baring mini skirts included.

Transcript

[Jessica Capshaw]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Camille Ludington]

Hey, can we talk about Plan B for a second? What exactly is it?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, Plan B is emergency contraception you take after unprotected sex. Think of it as backup birth control. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation to help prevent pregnancy before it starts.

[Camille Ludington]

And it's available right off the shelf.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep. It's at all major retailers in all 50 US states. No prescription ID or age requirement.

[Camille Ludington]

Ah, together we've got this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Follow Plan B on Insta at plan B one step use as directed time.

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[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it what it Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Ludington.

[Camille Ludington]

An iHeartRadio podcast foreign.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Crew and welcome to another episode of Short and Sweet.

[Camille Ludington]

I think we're this is a mashup of all the things that have been grabbing our attention lately.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, they're trends, they're headlines that have been hooking us. Sometimes it's tick tock, a text thread or something we didn't even know we cared about, and then it was just everywhere. Suddenly.

[Camille Ludington]

Then you find yourself going down the rabbit hole.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

You know, you know a lot about.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

Or a little about a lot. It depends on what kind of mood you're in.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, let's get started on the first one.

[Camille Ludington]

Let's do it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Which is women on TikTok are, quote, unquote, rejecting their age. So this is where women are dressing, acting, and living younger than your age and how you feel and not how old you are.

[Camille Ludington]

I mean, this is so subjective, but. Yes, go on.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This is very subjective. But, for example, there are all these rules out there. I have so many opinions on this. There are all these rules out there. Like, for example, you can't wear a lot of sparkle after 40. Did you know that? Apparently.

[Camille Ludington]

Whose rule is that?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Apparently it's aging gracefully. Where we're. We don't. We're not supposed to, like, stand out is what I've seen. And I'm gonna stand out.

[Camille Ludington]

I'm gonna.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I am so irritated by this because, like, even the. Have you heard about the glitter eyeshadow rule?

[Camille Ludington]

What? Who is making these rules?

[Jessica Capshaw]

And we're not kidding. So after 40, you're not supposed to be wearing glitter eyeshadow because it's like, A, more youthful and B, it, like, it's supposedly, like, you know, gets stuck in our old baggy wrinkles, and we're gonna be disgusting out in the world. I have started adding. Adding bronzy glitter to my daily shadow. So, you know what? F. Everybody's saying it, I guess so. I'm serious. That's a rule, Jess. It's, like, literally out there.

[Camille Ludington]

Well, that's not a rule. I had never heard that rule. And I don't. I don't fall. I mean, I don't have a ton of sparkle in my makeup drawer, but I did actually. I remember when I was younger. Speaking of sparkle, I used to have a spray.

[Jessica Capshaw]

A spray.

[Camille Ludington]

Hooray. The sparkle.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, the sparkle spray.

[Camille Ludington]

Sparkle everywhere.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Camille Ludington]

Sparkle. I would sparkle. I don't. I put a light mist on the face.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Camille Ludington]

Definitely a medium mist on the chest. And the decolletage. Yeah, that brightness out there.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are we talking about, like. Are we talking about, like, you're hitting up the club, so you're doing, like, that sparkle? Are you talking about?

[Camille Ludington]

Like, I was a sparkle club girl.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. You're not going to the grocery store with a sparkle, though.

[Camille Ludington]

Well, I mean, if it's the next day, if it was the day after the club, I might still have some sparkle remnants. I mean, I might not have showered yet. Who knows? It didn't all come off. You're like Tinkerell. And I think that this. I just. My way in would be. I think. I mean, close your eyes and think about what you thought when you were 12 years old and whatever person in your life was 40 at the time.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

I don't think that person probably resembles you now. Like, there was. There was just a difference. Like, isn't there that some crazy statistic. Someone pull it up for us? But it's like the golden girls who were meant to be living in, like, convalescing. They were meant to be, like, out to pasture.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

And they were like, in their 40s.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Camille Ludington]

How old were they? They were.

[Jessica Capshaw]

They were literally, like 40s, at least 50s. Yes. No. It's so insane. I think my pro. The problem I have with this is even the ide that you're living dressing, acting, quote, younger than your age. Oh, they were. The youngest was 53 and they literally looked 80.

[Camille Ludington]

Yes, they were.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Seriously?

[Camille Ludington]

Yes. And now you look at people and you look at the. I also think that, you know, I think media is. Is. Is changing with it is, you know, creating a little more flexibility within the. Our culture's idea of beauty. Because there's, you know, women on the COVID of things that are not only 20. I mean, there's beautiful, beautiful women are, you know, absolutely being seen for their beauty. That. That they're not, you know, tiny little chickens.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, I'll be honest. The girls that I look at that I'm like, taking my beauty or style inspo for are probably early 50s right now. Early 50s? Yeah. I think everyone looks so chic. The problem I have with this is that there's any. Is that there is any, like, expiration date on some of these things when you hit a certain age and therefore you're then afterwards considered dressing younger than your age, like sparkle makeup or whatever. Like, why. Why is there an expiration date on some of those fun things? Like, that's what really irritates me. And I can tell you because one of the other questions we had is, what's your personal I'm still hot and I know it outfit? I literally went on a date with Matt the other night and I threw on and I Have not done this in so long. But I was like, I'm gonna just encapsulate. I threw on the shortest little mini skirt. I was gonna say.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah, thought that would be a.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And, And I. And I don't know why, but it's almost like I'd. I felt like I'd had to retire them, but I hadn't done this, like, on purpose. And I was like, what am I doing? I felt so cute out my little mini skirt.

[Camille Ludington]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

There may have been a butt cheek out or two, but I was. I was loving my life.

[Camille Ludington]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So that's the problem. I had that there's even the, The, The. The phrase younger than your age, like, dressing younger like you.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. I also. But do you ever have this happen, I think maybe because I've got teenage daughters, is that I'll get stuck in an idea of what looks good on me, and I'll just, like, keep doing that thing, and then there'll be a new trend that definitely is the way that you're meant to be wearing, you know, whatever. Okay, perfect example when oversized became a thing. Yeah, no, like, I've always bought things that fit me, and, like, sweatshirt's meant to fit this way, and a T shirt supposed to fit this way and whatever. And then all the kids and their extra large sweatpants and their extra large hoodies and their extra large T shirts. And I was like, that looks to my eye, that looked bananas. And then my kids were like, no, no, no. That's how we wear it. And I was like, oh, I probably look more.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

Because my clothes fit.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

And then you kind of find yourself going, okay, well, silhouettes change. I mean, I do. I am sort of. I love fashion, so I do sort of go like, okay, what are the silhouettes? Right. We used to be super. There was times when we were super structured and super tight and then a little looser, and then, you know, the baggy pants and the this, not the other. But it's. It's interesting how we make it ours.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, I think what's interesting also is that, like, for example, I saw this thing. It was like, how to spot a millennial in the wild.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah. How do you. How does one do that?

[Jessica Capshaw]

And one of the things that really irks me, I swear to God, it's like my. But I, I. I'm leaning into the trend, even though I don't want to, is that you could spot a millennial buyer ankle socks.

[Camille Ludington]

We wear.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We don't. Because you guys don't understand that. We saw our parents in these thick freaking socks and they looked, like, tragic. We decided. Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

Like they were on their way to a Jazzercise class.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. And so we rejected those and we're like, ankle. And then now we are the old ones because we're wearing the little ankle things. And I still love them.

[Camille Ludington]

I fixed that about a year and a half ago, and now I'm used to it. Now I. When I wear my ankle socks, I'm like, great.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, are you doing the slouch or are you doing a fold?

[Camille Ludington]

No, it's a full ankle. Like, I mean, like, when I go. When I wear my little leggings and, like, tennis shoes. Yeah. They're like. There's no skin. You can't see skin between my leggings and my sock.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, but what about, like, when you're in a short skirt?

[Camille Ludington]

The ones I have, when you put them on, they kind of just naturally, like, fall a tiny bit. So they wrinkle. They're not like, straight up. But yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I've seen one thing I do like. I've seen the tights with the socks in. In a skirt, in a mini skirt, tight socks. And like your shoes. It actually looks quite cute.

[Camille Ludington]

I'm sure it does, but I just. Am I. It's like when we were talking about your. Your planned tweet outfit for that summer party when in la. Are you wearing socks, tights, and shoes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The day I'm wearing them?

[Camille Ludington]

But you're gonna be real hot.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know. Listen, December. It does get a little bit colder in December. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, Plan B is emergency contraception you take after unprotected sex. Think of it as backup birth control. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation to help prevent pregnancy before it starts.

[Camille Ludington]

And it's available right off the shelf.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep, it's at all major retailers in all 50 US states. No prescription ID or age requirement.

[Camille Ludington]

Ah, together we've got this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Follow Plan B on insta at Plan B One step. Use as directed.

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[Camille Ludington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Here'S also the problem I have with this and this might be not everyone's opinion and as I get older I might change my opinion. But I also think that you're I feel like my confidence in myself and what I look like has peaked in my 40s as opposed to 30s. And so I'm actually, like, more into fashion in a way that I was. So I want to experiment more. And then in turn, though, I look like I'm being a try hard, like I want to be 20.

[Camille Ludington]

I'm familiar with that feeling. I feel the same way. I do too. I don't like it. I don't like it. So I just reject it. When I have the thought, I. I go, okay, I see you thought. And I don't want that. I'm not on board. And I push it away. Nope. I can do whatever the I want.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I feel so much cuter at 41 than I did in my 30s at any point. In my 30s.

[Camille Ludington]

Agree, agree, agree. Yes. As a matter of fact, sometimes when pictures come up. But I see I. Do you like to look at pictures of your. Like, do not. Do you like to. But, like, I actively don't.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I really don't. No. I really don't. No.

[Camille Ludington]

So, you know, and. And obviously, I'm in the wrong business for that, but I will. I wouldn't like, after a photo shoot or whatever. I think there's a lot of people who want to look at the images and tweak or whatever. I'm like, nope, we're good. I don't need to look at it. I trust the people that are in charge of this, and we'll move on. And I've gotten better at that. Not like I'm running to a monitor to see it, but I. I'm not offended by it. When I look at it the same way that I. Or I don't. It's not offended. I used to. Just when I saw it, I would instantly pick apart everything that was wrong with me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

I think I have a greater sense of grace with myself or. Or confidence. I don't know. Maybe a mixture of the two. But I just. I can look at them and be like, oh, cool. Like, great.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

I'm better at being my own friend.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I feel the same way.

[Camille Ludington]

Now. This is the other thing that I've been seeing, and I'm. I'm. I have a real push or push pull with it because. Feel like I normally shy away from, like, being too conspicuous. And so this is at odds with that. There's all these, you know, sort of like socialites that are becoming fashion's biggest muses, and it's all like, maximalism. Right. Like, it's all like. Like, it's very. Even if it's. Even if it's your $10, you know, sunnies from Amazon. You're. They're meant to be like rich girl sunnies. You know what I mean? Like, there's all this very, like, have it all. And it's the pearls and the vintage glamour and the designer bags and even if they're. But just like, having the thing that means the thing. Like a lot of. I mean, you've worn them. I've worn them. Like the T shirts that have, like a brand name on them or whatever. But it's, it's an interesting thing because it's kind of at odds with, like I said. I mean, it's not normally my go to.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. It's the fashion version of fake it till you make it is what they're kind of calling it.

[Camille Ludington]

If we're.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm wearing a Celine T shirt or something that has a name across it. I feel like then I can't, I can't wear the pearls with it and the chunky earrings and the, and the design. Like, I have to chill out and everything else. But that's just my personal aesthetic. I, I, I have really loved. I told you, I. My Nantucket, I don't know, I'm in the wrong state. My Nantucket vibes is like, cozy sweat. It's like the sweater I'm wearing right now. So I'm not. This is not me. But I appreciate it. I mean, like, I think that, like, there's girls that can really pull this off. And there was a time when I would have absolutely loved this.

[Camille Ludington]

Well, and it's interesting because, again, the part that I like about it is not. Listen, I'm not advocating for getting dupes and all that kind of stuff, but I just, I don't, I really don't think that things should be completely like, not like anyone's gatekeeping it, but things.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Being so expensive or exclusive, there's an excessive.

[Camille Ludington]

And I feel like everybody should be able to have access.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I remember back when, like, Rachel zo, you know, 2005, it was all about, like, the, you know, you had so many rings on your fingers and you had, you had the layered necklaces, and maybe you had like the faux fur thing that you got from, like, wherever. And I loved it.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't know. I'm just not feeling it in this moment. In my 40s. I'm not feeling it.

[Camille Ludington]

I don't have, you know, I'm not, I love fashion. I don't have a ton of time. I mean, I feel like in my 20s, I could sit there and, you know, you could contemplate your Clothes and put together combinations and style yourself or look at inspirations from Rachel Zo or whoever. And for me it was Sienna Miller and you would look at the pictures and like recreate it. Like, what do I have like that I still do that I will go on Pinterest. I will go on. I'll see the socials and have accounts that I. Where someone just has a style that I think is really cute. And I think lately things actually have gotten a little bit more simple. We went like, yes, static. And things were a little simple and it was like combinations of outfits. And I truly, because I'm a super nerd, I take screenshots and truly like put together like a little thing where it's like thumbtack pictures of all the different things. And you'd be like, oh my gosh, when you're in a hurry and you've got a million things to do and you got to get to work or you got to get to the kids. And like, having little inspos was super helpful for me or is for me. And I'll be like, oh yeah, this, this khaki pant with this white shirt with this sweater over your shoulders and this jewelry and the big. The earrings and whatever. And you saw it somewhere and you thought it worked and you're like, great. Don't even have to think about it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Here's the, here's the thing that I do that I think is a problem is that I also do the same thing I go through and I'm like, oh my God, I love that combination. Da, da. And in my mind, I've looked at so many of these pictures that I think that that's what I have. Like, I almost feel like I'm looking at it all the time. So that's my st. That's my wardrobe. But I'm in the same pair of open toed fur Birkenstocks that I saw.

[Camille Ludington]

You in two years ago.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And yes, and the furs come off every day. So in my mind I'm like this stylish, cool, like, you know, out in the boat in Nantucket. But in my life, it's not translating.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. I do know this to be true about you. When you are an expert, no one is better than you. At like, when I send you, you're so clever and you're so smart. But when I send you a thing for like, what do you. What. What should I wear for this event? You are. You've already sent me. You've. I haven't even sent me four links.

[Jessica Capshaw]

A hundred percent.

[Camille Ludington]

And they're always good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. If I if we have to go to an event, all other than this event where I would have dressed wrong but it was still it would have been really cute. If I have to go to an event, I can absolutely pull it together.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

For either of us.

[Camille Ludington]

Yep.

[Jessica Capshaw]

In fact, you sent me a picture the other day and I was like, I know that that top goes with those shorts. That wearing it wrong. Save it for that.

[Camille Ludington]

You're wearing it wrong and I'd like you to fix hey, can we talk about Plan B for a second? What exactly is it?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. Plan B is emergency contraception you take after unprotected sex. Think of it as backup birth control. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation to help prevent pregnancy before it starts.

[Camille Ludington]

And it's available right off the shelf.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep. It's at all major retailers in all 50 US states. No prescription ID or age requirement.

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[Camille Ludington]

Together we've got this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

I do want to talk about one last thing before we go.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The wellness birthday parties are on the rise. I've been seeing.

[Camille Ludington]

Yep. I've seen that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I'm super into it.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So back in the day, I absolutely wanted to start a birthday party with, like, let's go out. Let's get bottomless mimosas. Right. Like, let's get tipsy. And I am truly just. I'm actually kind of in a. In a space in my life where I'm really tired of alcohol, actually.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like, I'm kind of over it.

[Camille Ludington]

Well. And there's a possibility of going to a party and feeling better after the party than you did going into the party.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Exactly. I just. I. I don't know whether it's because. Listen, it could be because of Hashimoto's. I don't know what it is. It could be good. But I swear, if I even have two glasses of wine, I feel it the next day.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So the idea of starting a birthday, like, I saw someone start a birthday with a sound bath. I'm like, in.

[Camille Ludington]

Have you ever been to one?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I've been to one. You just basically lay there. But I think I'm realizing that, like, I need more of that, like, a reset birthday as opposed to I'm gonna wake up the next day and I'm newly. Whatever it is. And I'm like, hungover.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Can I tell you a story about this?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

So I recently had a night where I, like, I could have gone out for, you know, a dinner or drinks or whatever. And I. I actually very purpose the decision that I was like, no, you know what? I'm going to do something. Chill. I'm going to do something that. Where I'm going to walk away feeling great after I do this thing. And I was in New York City and someone had told me about this place that I guess was like, I don't know, there was like, ancient baths and. And, like, massage situation. And I was like, great, I'm going to go do that. Take care of me. It's going to be a little wellness Jessica moment.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love this story.

[Camille Ludington]

Yeah. So I made the appointment and I showed up and they said, you bring a bathing suit.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Camille Ludington]

There's baths. And so I get there and they check me in and it's really nice and very, it feels very zen and everything else. And they lead me to the women's locker room. I always find those locker rooms, I mean, you know, it's a little interesting because you're all like in space and there's like, yeah, naked people and you know, in varying states of undress, whatever. So then a woman comes out and she tells me, you know, what the program is, which is that I'm going to put my bathing suit on, I'm going to put this robe on, and then I'm going to, you know, follow her down these stairs to where you rendezvous with these baths before you get a massage. Okay, great. So I do what I'm supposed to do. She walks me out and she looks over her shoulder as we're walking down this hallway and she's like, so are you meeting someone, you know, on the other side of this door? Like for the bath? For the bath part of it? And I was like, you know, like a friend or something, Right?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't know. Okay.

[Camille Ludington]

And. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's just me. And she looks at me and she goes, oh, it's okay, you'll have fun anyways. And I was like, wait, what? Oh, I want. And it's New York. So you're. So I go down and it. Now the sun becomes very, very dimly lit. Like barely can see your hand in front of your face, kind of dimly lit. And now I'm actually worried that I've done something wrong. I've done something that is not going. Feel better?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. No, yeah. Oh my God. Wait, what?

[Camille Ludington]

And someone checks me in and he says, okay, you know how many people are checking you in? You've had.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This is like the tsa. You've had like five check ins.

[Camille Ludington]

Security checkpoint. And I'm on to the second. And so this gentleman meets me. He's got his iPad. They all have iPads. And he's like, he's like, okay. And I walk into the space where now it becomes a little brighter because I can see to my right and down a couple more stairs occurs that there are about six different aquamarine pools that are lit up in this ground space. And the one that's closest to me that I can see like as I look over the railing has got two people in it and they're just floating but like frog legged. Two people floating in the ancient map. And all Of a sudden, I'm putting that together with the fact that this woman has said, are you. Are you meeting someone here?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

And then I'm putting it together with the fact that it's a Friday night in New York City and I. This is a couple situation. This is not a wellness Jessica night. This is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

My God, this is like a new date night that you and you've gone single, mingle.

[Camille Ludington]

Very different.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm so. My social anxiety is, like, so stressed right now. The fact that they're frog legged, floating, Is there even room for you? And then you just join the date. Like, I'm so, like, you can see me. I'm like, blushing a little bit. Like, I'm so stressed out. Continue the story. This is horrifying.

[Camille Ludington]

I was going to die and I didn't know where the escape hatch was. And I had this massage waiting on the other end of it, right. That I'd already paid for. So I'm like, what do I do? So I'm wearing my bathing suit on my robe, I'm literally crying. You look at the guy with the iPad, and this is like a Sex.

[Jessica Capshaw]

In the City episode. This is a full sexist city episode. Okay, yeah, you've. Okay, yeah. Number five is the iPad.

[Camille Ludington]

IPad. Hey, is there another option for me right now? And he's like, what do you mean? And I said, what if. If I wanted to skip the baths part of it? And he's like, oh, you do? And I was like, yeah, I think I'm. I mean, like, if I wanted to wait for the massage part, like, where would I wait? And he goes, oh, well, I mean, no one ever does that. And I was like, like, okay, yeah, but if I wanted to. He was like, we go back to the locker room and then we'll come find you. And I said, okay, sit in the locker room. Yeah, just sit there. And he's like, but you should look around and see if there's any of the baths you want to get into. And I was like, okay. So he left me. And I said, but so how will you find me if I'm just. You'll find me in one of these baths. And he's like, yeah, we'll find you. I'm like, what? Okay, no, Jessica, get your together, you're a grown up.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah. Situation.

[Camille Ludington]

And you should just go find the bath that you should dip into. Right?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camille Ludington]

Calm the mind. And I. So I went on a little walk. I did a lap, and there was one bath that seemed to be unoccupied. And Right as I was about to take my robe off and put a toe into the. I was, like, frolicking over and. And. And, like, jumps in, and I was like, okay, we're done. We're done. I'm out. I'm out. So I went back to the locker room, and then I just sat by my locker. No, he waited for someone to come grab me for my massage. Oh, that plan for wellness, you know, didn't 100 work out for me? But I'm not going to stop trying.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, my God. This is.

[Camille Ludington]

But I definitely think that if I would. If I was recommending that experience to anyone, I would say, definitely do not go solo.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, absolutely.

[Camille Ludington]

One guy. Floating.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's the floating. If they weren't floating, but it's the floating. Because, like, if you're. You can't, like, okay, I'm just, like, picturing you floating, and then you accidentally, you know, you're touching another body, and then you have to sort of float your way back over.

[Camille Ludington]

It's so awkward. And because it's a wellness experience, and obviously there's something healing about these ancient baths. There were also a couple people that were, like, stretching.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, Jessica, you know what? The mimosas sound better in this moment. I'm back to mimosa brunch for my birthday.

[Camille Ludington]

This is what you wish for.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We have to end on this. Please, please write this.

[Camille Ludington]

We need to.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We need to collect all our little stories and just put them into stuff, because this is absolutely. The floating frog. Like, couples. I can picture it so well. And then just you by yourself. Oh, my God, it's so true.

[Camille Ludington]

And by the way, how you felt. Hearing me tell the story is how I felt being in the story. I've never been so anxious. The entire experience was really quite stressful. No.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And then just you sat by your locker is just really tragic. Just people walking around you.

[Camille Ludington]

Yes, again, varying states of undress.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, man. You know what, Jessica, wait. Before. Before we go, me and you, when I go to New York next, we're gonna sound bath together. No, not sound bath. We're gonna do this. What is it called?

[Camille Ludington]

I don't know if I could go back there.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We're going back. We're gonna frog leg together, and we're gonna have our own romantic date, just me and you. And you know what if a third person comes in. Get out. Get out. I'm gonna scratch. I know. I need. I'm not kidding.

[Camille Ludington]

This is exactly what we're doing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Next time I'm in New York, all right? We gotta call it.

[Camille Ludington]

We're gonna call it the end.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The end of the episode.