Call It with Ariana DeBose

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Call It What It Is" with Ariana DeBose

Title: Call It What It Is
Host: iHeartPodcasts (Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington)
Guest: Ariana DeBose
Episode Release Date: March 31, 2025
Episode Highlight: Ariana DeBose discusses her journey in the entertainment industry, personal growth, managing relationships, and embracing change.

---

1. Introduction

The episode of "Call It What It Is" kicks off with the hosts, Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, warmly welcoming their special guest, Ariana DeBose. The conversation sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of Ariana's experiences, both personal and professional, highlighting the enduring friendship between Jessica and Camilla.

2. Friendship and First Meeting

Jessica reminisces about the first time she met Ariana on the set of West Side Story, describing the initial excitement and connection.

[03:34] Jessica Capshaw: "I get to look at your eyes while I say this in person. In real life."

Ariana recalls her first encounter with Jessica, marked by admiration and the beginning of a strong bond.

[05:38] Ariana DeBose: "I was like, maybe we have. I, like, dig her spirit."

3. Experiences on Set

The discussion delves into their shared experiences on set, particularly focusing on the demanding nature of acting and choreography. Ariana shares insights about the rigorous demands of dance in West Side Story.

[11:07] Ariana DeBose: "Dance is spiritual. It's like communion."

Jessica adds anecdotes about the intense work ethic of their co-star, Steven, emphasizing his dedication both on and off set.

[06:20] Jessica Capshaw: "He never really goes out because... he was so self-aware."

4. Handling Stress and Mental Health

Ariana opens up about the challenges of maintaining mental health amidst the pressures of the industry. She discusses moments of self-doubt, stress from award campaigns, and the physical toll of her performances.

[21:35] Ariana DeBose: "I didn't realize how many people I was gonna have to talk to and meet. I got sick. I developed 52 food allergies."

Jessica relates by sharing her observations on balancing personal well-being with professional commitments.

[24:00] Jessica Capshaw: "We need to learn. But that's okay. We need to grow."

5. Success and Recognition

The conversation shifts to Ariana's remarkable achievements, including her BAFTA win and experiences during award seasons. Ariana reflects on the unexpected nature of her nominations and the subsequent press tours.

[20:46] Ariana DeBose: "The win was getting to make the movie itself."

Jessica emphasizes the emotional and physical demands of such high-profile successes.

[25:05] Jessica Capshaw: "The show must go on."

6. Personal Growth and Manifesting

Ariana discusses her evolved approach to manifesting and personal growth, highlighting the importance of flexibility and trusting the universe.

[31:49] Ariana DeBose: "I use photos to represent the feeling of an experience that I would like to have."

Jessica concurs, sharing her journey towards recognizing the difference between reacting and responding.

[26:32] Jessica Capshaw: "How am I in this situation? Is my reaction what this situation needs?"

7. Navigating Relationships and Boundaries

The hosts and Ariana delve into the complexities of maintaining healthy relationships, both personally and professionally. They explore strategies for setting boundaries and handling toxic friendships.

[37:27] Jessica Capshaw: "So if anyone ever asks you, you…"

[38:28] Ariana DeBose: "And that's their ignorance, not mine."

They discuss the significance of direct communication and the courage required to address and manage challenging relationships.

[37:57] Jessica Capshaw: "And you got to be brave."

8. Industry Insights and Change

Ariana and Jessica share their perspectives on the evolving landscape of the entertainment industry, emphasizing the need for diversity and the acceptance of different appearances on screen.

[60:12] Ariana DeBose: "But I think we're living in wild times as it is."

Jessica highlights the positive shifts towards more inclusive representations and the importance of maintaining one's reputation within the industry.

[57:50] Ariana DeBose: "I do care about my reputation."

9. Hair and Appearance Talk

Light-heartedly, the conversation shifts to personal style, specifically Ariana’s recent hairstyle change. They discuss the significance of hair in expressing individuality and the practical aspects of maintaining appearances in the acting world.

[65:12] Ariana DeBose: "I started immediately feeling the vibration of liberation as she was cutting my hair off."

Jessica shares humorous reflections on wigs and the behind-the-scenes efforts to maintain certain looks for roles.

[68:30] Ariana DeBose: "But, you know, that's the thing, though. Pop stars are real people too, and they have to protect their hair."

10. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Jessica and Ariana express mutual appreciation for their friendship and the enriching conversations they've shared. They reinforce the themes of kindness, personal growth, and the importance of supportive relationships.

[70:44] Ariana DeBose: "Spread joy, kindness."

[71:13] Jessica Capshaw: "I look forward to every single time I get to see your bright shining eyes."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Jessica Capshaw on Self-Awareness:
  "[06:38] Jessica Capshaw: He was so self aware... he's done his work at work and also at home."

• Ariana DeBose on Dance as Spiritual Communion:
  "[11:07] Ariana DeBose: Dance is spiritual. It's like communion."

• Ariana on Manifesting from a Place of Flexibility:
  "[31:49] Ariana DeBose: I use photos to represent the feeling of an experience that I would like to have."

• Jessica on Balancing Reaction and Response:
  "[26:32] Jessica Capshaw: How am I in this situation? Is my reaction what this situation needs?"

• Ariana on Embracing Change:
  "[60:12] Ariana DeBose: But I think we're living in wild times as it is."

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Call It What It Is" offers a candid and heartfelt conversation between longtime friends Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, with the insightful addition of Ariana DeBose. Covering a spectrum of topics from personal struggles and industry challenges to the joys of friendship and self-expression, the episode provides listeners with valuable lessons in resilience, kindness, and the continual journey of personal growth.

Transcript

[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it what It Is is celebrating female warriors and championing women's stories all month long thanks to our partners at BMW with T Mobile.

[Camilla Luddington]

No trendspotter has to deal with trendspotty.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card.

[Ariana DeBose]

Visit your local T Mobile location or.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allows 15 days qualified and unlocked device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and.

[Ariana DeBose]

Expires in six months.

[Natalie Dormer]

Audrey's Children, starring Natalie Dormer tells the untold true story of Dr. Audrey Evans, whose fight for change redefined medicine and continues to impact the lives of millions. After being recruited to an elite Children's Hospital in 1969, Evans refused to accept the futility of current therapies and pioneered life saving treatments. She was also the co founder of Ronald McDonald House Charities now playing only in theaters.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Good news. Your favorite Caribbean beaches are [e-mail] Cheap.

[Unknown]

Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand for your dollar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Check out their Beach Favorite Sale score $175 instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends April 1st. Go to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving. Today we're excited to partner with BMW to celebrate International Women's Day.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Absolutely. BMW is honoring the incredible strength and resilience of women who drive change every day. They are all about amplifying important conversations and ensuring every voice is heard.

[Unknown]

We've been fortunate to work alongside amazing, dynamic women and are committed to paying it forward.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This International Women's Day, BMW is celebrating female warriors, women who break barriers, challenge limits and inspire us all.

[Unknown]

Together we're driving the world forward. BMW supports your journey. Visit BMW USA.com the ultimate driving Machine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Ludington, an iHeartRadio podcast. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is with a very special guest. My dear, I get to look at your eyes while I say this in person. In real life. Ariana DeVose we got too excited. We got too excited when we saw each other and now I'm like okay, just I When I first saw you in the green room, I actually thought to myself, okay, just don't talk for a minute. But you gotta save it. These are things that sometimes when Camilla and I will get on, we'll be like. And they'll be like, save it. You are one of my favorite people to talk to. And we don't get to see each other enough. So you coming on here today is such a gift, just for all the reasons. It spans the friend category, the professional category, all the categories. I've been thinking about you a lot the past couple days in knowing that I was about to see you.

[Ariana DeBose]

Okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I was thinking, do you remember when we first met?

[Ariana DeBose]

We were on set at west side Story. Right. And we were shooting. It was one of the days we were shooting America in New Jersey. Yep. And I can't remember. I think I was injured. I had a busted ankle. And I was like, in my mustard yellow garb, the most beautiful. It was so gorgeous. Thank you. Paul Tazewell, Academy Award winner, Paul Tazewell. We love to see it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Those costumes.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I was a little, like, dazed. Cause I was like, oh, I've got to run up hills and I've got to twirl, and this skirt is a bit heavy and awesome. And you were just like, hi. And you talked to me like we'd.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Known each other for years.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I was like, maybe we have. I, like, dig her spirit. Maybe I needed this burst of energy. Not a clue what I said to you, though.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. So my memory, all of that tracks and makes complete Sentence. Sentence. It makes complete sense because you. I had sort of been with you longer than you'd been with me. Right. Because the casting process is so long.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Especially in a case like this. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

That feels long.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And you being in my side of it, which is just, you know, in the family of. You were so familiar. And the story of who plays who and how and all that stuff is sort of something that I'm definitely not a part of, but that I am in proximity to. So you had. I had a familiarity with you. And I remember actually first meeting you on stages behind the camera and being in awe of you and being really shy and you being super warm and giving me a really big hug and like, oh, my gosh. And I think that you had maybe mentioned that you had either watched or seen Grey's. And I was like, oh, my God, she knows who I am.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes, I knew who you were. Are you kidding?

[Jessica Capshaw]

It was so clear being on that set that every single person was giving their Actual everything.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah, it was bananas. That time was so. It was very visceral. But it's even sitting here now. It's like I remember, like what it felt like, but I don't remember all of the details anymore. And I. Oh, my God, I hope as I mature, the details come back. But it was such a visceral time and there was so much energy and everyone was working so hard, but no one worked harder than Jefe. Like, Steven was in there. He was the first one in and the last one out every night.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, and he never really goes out because as you know. Yeah. And he gets in the car and he's thinking and he's looking out the window. I have to say, he's so self aware. That man has done his work at work and also at home. Because when I was younger, my experience was that he would.

[Ariana DeBose]

You.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You would. He would just be lost in thoughts. But you were. I wasn't old enough to know that those thoughts were about work. I just, you know, it would mean to me, like, you know, he was just. He was somewhere else. Right. And now there's this self awareness where even just the other day we were gonna have dinner and he said to me on the phone beforehand, he said, hey, I just want to let you know, you know, I'm prepping for this thing and I'm really thinking about it a lot. So if I don't talk for a little bit, it's really about that. It's not about anything else. And I was.

[Ariana DeBose]

That's grown. It's so grown.

[Unknown]

It's so adult.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's so adult.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know what's interesting?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Your parents are real adults.

[Ariana DeBose]

Real adults. And like for creative brains, I mean, we come across creative people all the time. Right. Not all creatives are very mature.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What?

[Ariana DeBose]

What?

[Jessica Capshaw]

What do you mean?

[Ariana DeBose]

What are you talking about? What so.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And other. Interested.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. And I love that fact about him to be who he is, to have all of the experience he has and to be such a deep, deep thinker and to have that self awareness.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's rare. It's rare. It's rare. It's rare. Well, and also speaking of that, I think that having just lived such a long life with him as a creator and as a parent, I've really watched him create these work families. And when I was younger, I had a different relationship with it because I kind of was a little jealous. You know, not in a I want to take it away from you way, but in like a. Oh, you really like working with her. That's nice.

[Ariana DeBose]

I get that feeling.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, she does that so well. That's great.

[Ariana DeBose]

God, she was so good. Was she?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I didn't actually think she was that good in that scene.

[Ariana DeBose]

I was like, honestly, I thought you could have pulled something better out of her. But it's fine. It's great. They're so nice. I actually get that, though. My mom's a public school teacher, and so. And she raised me as a single parent.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Gina.

[Ariana DeBose]

Shout out to Gina.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Gina.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I get that because there were times in my childhood where, you know, when you're an educator, you inevitably, if you're a parent also, you don't just have one kid. You got all the kids you're teaching. You spend so much, much time not only educating, but raising, in a way, other people's children.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I did at times feel like I was sharing her. And there were times in my childhood that I had to check myself because I was like, oh, you really like that student? That student's so sm.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm smart. So I remember you having this work family. I remember going to visit. I remember being wowed that you knew who I was. I then remember watching you on the cuny. They have the monitors and you watch the performances by the chairs. And I was sitting there with Tony Kushner and the dialect coach.

[Ariana DeBose]

Victor Cruz and Tom Jones were our dialect coaches.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I believe Tom was there that day and Scripty. And it was just watching the magic and Janus and the lighting. And you're watching magic happen. And it's been happening. And I've. I couldn't be more grateful to have been able to watch this, you know, for the great majority of my life. So that's when I remember first meeting you. But then I remember I had to go back to Los Angeles because it was shot in New York and New Jersey. I went back to Los Angeles for work, and I had to take a red eye, which I strongly dislike. And I came. I hate them. And I landed and I came straight to New Jersey. I remember you coming down the street, and it was like magic, like, the dancing, the intensity. You have a great game face. Your face was. I mean, every single fiber of you was in this. And I mean, again, I don't know the correct terms, but, like, just all the, like. Choreography.

[Unknown]

Yes, the choreography.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And you came around and you were looking at the, you know, actors come around to look at the playback, to make sure that they're doing. And you were this incredible balance. And I want to hear you talk about it.

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, my God, I love that. That's your experience of watching me process and how I'm doing, whatever. Whatever it is I'm doing. At the time, it was very funny because I. I didn't really like to watch a lot of playback. And. And jefe and I had spoken and I was like, I'm gonna trust you on the scenes. I'm. I'm not going to watch my playback on scenes because I will get to. I was very self conscious about my acting and I was like, if you think you got it, then I'm gonna trust you. And you got it because you would.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Be worried that you would.

[Ariana DeBose]

I would not be in balance.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep.

[Ariana DeBose]

Whereas with dance, I'm such a technician that. But I also, like, for me, dance is spiritual. It's like communion. So I know what I'm looking for when I'm like, this is a moment where this character needs to let go, and this is a moment where I do need to execute this technique. So I was able to find balance. And so that's what I was really looking for is like Justin Peck, our choreographer on that film, who, by the way, I don't think he gets his flowers enough. He did such a beautiful job in executing both the Sharks and the jets and creating two different worlds. Because that's really what I think is movie, musical magic is the definition of worlds. And I think the best musicals, you really get to see that. I haven't seen it in every movie musical since west side Story, but I have seen it a few times. But Justin really did that well. And so what I was looking for that day, because that section, there are moments that are odes to the original 1961 film and odes to the Broadway stage production and the original choreo that I was like, this does have to be right. And they would have done it this way, not this way. And I was trying to tweak that whilst also finding those moments of real clarity within losing oneself. So it's alchemy is really what I think I'm doing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I don't know what I'm doing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, you did it. You did it.

[Ariana DeBose]

Thank you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

In 105 degree weather and a very heavy.

[Ariana DeBose]

And Janusz's lights. He said, it's already hot. Let's put another football stadium light on you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It just looks so beautiful. It's fine.

[Ariana DeBose]

Everything was fine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It was painful. Beauty is painful. Question mark? I don't know.

[Ariana DeBose]

It is painful. I mean, I burned holes through my shoes that day.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That was what I was gonna get. So I remember that. How many different pairs of she. So she's talking about burning holes in the soles of her shoes because of how hot the pavement was and how hard you were dancing.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I mean, you were a lot of twirling. So much twirling.

[Ariana DeBose]

So the reality of situation is we're dancing on cement. It's not like there's a floor laid down the street for you. You're dancing on the cement. And I just whittled down the bottom of my shoes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Classy. It was worth.

[Ariana DeBose]

Was so worth it. It was worth it all again. There's nothing I would have changed about any of that. I really wouldn't have. Well, maybe a few things, but it's okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Progress, not perfection.

[Ariana DeBose]

Progress, not perfection. But I loved it. And it's something I deal with kind of on the daily. Because that film and that process of getting to dance and getting to sing and act and do all of these things that I'm really. I think I'm really good at in one film with great material. Thank you, Tony Kushner.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

For that beautiful adaptation. That was the first thing I did.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

And it was, for all intents and purposes, perfection of an experience. Truly, like, collaborative.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Ah. Four years from having given it to the world. We made it pre pandemic.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

So that was a minute ago. I think it was cast in 2018.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep. Wow. It's so insane.

[Ariana DeBose]

Banana pancakes. And the movie got made in 2019. Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I could be wrong, but the timeline. The timeline. The timeline was funky because we had. Time is relative. Time is relative.

[Ariana DeBose]

Time is relative. But then it was a long time. So to have done that first. And now there are reasons why I'm like, I'll try anything. You cannot duplicate that experience. And I've come to the conclusion that, like, you gotta stop trying. You just gotta show up everywhere you go and accept the experience and try and like, do your part in it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Good news. Your favorite Caribbean beaches are [e-mail] Cheap.

[Unknown]

Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand for your dollar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Check out their beach favorite sale to score $175 instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Life's full of little dramas. The kind you don't want. The annoying everyday kind. And Hulu has the drama you want.

[Unknown]

Come to Hulu to stream thrilling dramas like Law and Order, SVU, NCIS and 911. Stream Heart Tugging dramas like Grey's Anatomy, Gilmore Girls and Scandal.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And don't miss fresh Hulu original dramas like paradise starring Sterling K. Brown, Good American Family starring Ellen Pompeo and Nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman.

[Unknown]

It's time to put all of life's little dramas on hold. Forget about traffic, that annoying DM or running out of milk.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Dive into a drama on Hulu and remember why you love drama in the first place. There's so much drama on Hulu and it's all in one place.

[Unknown]

So let's pause the annoying everyday drama and play the drama you want. Hulu, the drama you want.

[Natalie Dormer]

Audrey's Children starring Natalie Dormer tells the untold true story of Dr. Audrey Evans who is recruited to an elite Children's Hospital in 1969 as the first female to head her department. Frustrated with the futility of current therapies and refusing to accept more can't be done for her patients, she pioneers revolutionary life saving treatments and co founds Ronald McDonald House Charities. A trailblazer with a relentless spirit, Dr. Evans Fight for change, redefined medicine and continues to impact the lives of millions of people. Now playing only in theaters.

[Camilla Luddington]

Legends, the greatest social casino and sportsbook experience has [e-mail] with thousands of the best free to play casino style games, chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money, Legends is revolutionizing the Vegas experience wherever you are. If you love winning, then you'll love playing at L E G e n d z.com Legends is a free to play social casino void. We're prohibited. Play responsibly. Visit legends.com for more information. Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

In a weird way. I think that the environment that we're working in right now as actors, I'm only. I'm only an actor. I'm not a triple threat like you. In my own mind, I like to think. Here's the thing, I like to think I could sing. I actually know I can't dance. Are you sure? Are you sure? Yes, I will. I will make the story short, but there was a time in young Jessica Capshaw's life when she too was willing to try anything. And she auditioned for. I mean, I'm talking about myself in the third person now, so I'm just going to go with it. She auditioned for Thoroughly Modern Millie, the revival and she made it to final callbacks and got flown to New York City to complete the Triple threat process. And yes, she fell apart during the dancing. She knows. It's been proven.

[Ariana DeBose]

It was a lot of tap.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It was so tap is horrendous. It was. I was terrible. I wish there was. I'm not joking. I actually genuinely wish there was camera on it. Maybe there is. I could find it. It would. Nothing would give me greater pleasure.

[Ariana DeBose]

Wasn't that a Jeanine Tresori Tresori show? She might. Would have the tape on that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And you know what? I feel like maybe at some point during the filming of. She said something about like, didn't you? And I was like, yeah, this is. We don't need to talk about was a time. But again, in my mind, I'm great.

[Ariana DeBose]

In my mind, I'm a pop star.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know what I mean? Like, in my mind, I am just doing my thing. Probably along the lines of like Gaga style. Just because you cannot put that woman in a box. She's everything and all things.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But that's what I am in my mind. But I'm actually, I'm just trying to triple threat it and like, hold the line.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But before you went on to do all that, you had to do that little thing which is called winning an Oscar.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I'm just curious because we don't need to belabor the point. You want it, we know it. Spoiler alert. She won. She wanted. I'm curious, what if you were going on opposite ends of the spectrum, the thing that you now remember really enjoying the most about that. That journey, if you will. And I, I guess, I mean, from like the minute you get the phone call saying you're nominated for an Academy Award to you're standing on stage accepting a fucking Academy Award, which is again, I mean, you just talked about a perfect experience and then sort of, I mean, a perfect ending to, you know, to. To wrap that nicely up. So I'm curious what the thing was that you enjoyed the most about that. And then the thing that you were like, oh, man. Okay, that happened. And I'm really happy that that's in my rearview mirror. Oh, yeah, I know. Just pick one.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know, I'm still just so grateful that it happened. I think I knew for me the win was getting to make the movie itself because at the time I was sure they were going to stunt cast that thing. I was like, I don't have a chance in hell. Why would I go in for that? Just to be like, thank you so much. Oh, my God, you're talented, but you're not getting this job. So Just the fact that I got to make the movie was the thing. I was surprised by every single nomination. Every time I think people ask, like, were you faking? Like, you know you're winning? I think Katrina Balfe, at one point during the, like, awards season was like, you know you're winning. And I was like, sis, I don't.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, I think I won a bafta. And it's like they said my name.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I was like, holy shit. I'm. I don't go here.

[Ariana DeBose]

I don't go here.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Is this in my home school?

[Ariana DeBose]

No, it's not. Like, I was just honored to be here included, because I was like, yeah, like, British film, British theater, like, yeah, it is a whole thing. I love it. I revere it. I'm still watching BBC. Like, I love those shows. The writing is better.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Girl.

[Ariana DeBose]

Sorry. Call it what it is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Those writers.

[Ariana DeBose]

Those writers, man, they get it right over there.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh.

[Ariana DeBose]

But, like, I just was surprised by it all, and so I was able to truly enjoy every moment. There were little sprinkles of drama here and there. Because, honestly, actors, it's the nature of the beast. I know, but, like, the joy outweighed any of that. The rear view mirror portion of your question. I didn't realize. I can't think of a better way to say this. I didn't realize what a race it actually was, though. Of, like, once you give the movie, like, you. You'll do a press tour for the release of the film, and da, da, da, da. And that's, like, great. Cause you're all celebrating, and then the awards stuff starts happening. And I didn't realize what a race it was, like, what a campaign it was.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Campaign. Didn't realize the stamina you needed. And I didn't realize how many people I was gonna have to talk to and meet. Like, I didn't realize how tired I was gonna be. I. I got sick. I developed 52 food allergies.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

I was stressed out all the time. I. But I was thrilled that I was even getting the opportunity to do this thing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And that is funny because that is the weight in the counterweight. Because so often people who are listening or watching people talk about the experience of this exact thing. Yeah. Like, people are like, oh, she's so tired. Oh, he's so tired. Like, how tired must it be? Because they see the glamorized parts, they see the fashion, or they see the. They see the result. They see all that and. Or they watch. I mean, again, I mean, being on a show that works 10 months out of the year is very different than being on a movie for three months. So, you know, in our world, it was like if you were sick. Okay. So you're still showing up.

[Ariana DeBose]

Take your pills at this point. Like put a mask on.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This was before they would even have you put on. They would never have you put on a mask. You would show up and you would just. Yeah, for sure. Oh, just wipe it on your sleeve.

[Ariana DeBose]

Don't touch anyone.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And there were these. I mean, I don't think I'm like. I don't. I don't think I'm like letting out some dirty, dark secret. But there was always like the doctor. They'd call the doctor. There was definitely some sort of like B. B3 shots, something like that.

[Ariana DeBose]

B3, B12. Like complex.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Cuz if they need to just prop you up sometimes they will.

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, okay. One of my most. It's infamous at this point, but one of my most infamous performances I've given in my career was not the year I won a bafta, but the year after that with the whole did the thing Debacle.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

I think it was still fun. Whatever.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I was very sick. Yeah. And I'm trained for the show to go on.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I did have a doctor come and prop me up. Yep. So that I could fulfill the commitment I said that I would do for them. And I did want to celebrate. But I was like, wow. Hi. Pneumonia.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. No, the show must go on.

[Ariana DeBose]

But the show went on and I did my thing and I went home.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And you know, I got eaten alive for it. And again, Lesson learned. Hindsight's 20 20. You got pneumonia. Stay home.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know, I know, I know. We need to learn.

[Ariana DeBose]

We need to learn. But that's okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We need to grow.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's also. We do, we do need to grow. And I make different decisions as a result of that experience now. But I do think you get to moments like that because a part of the. I hate to do it, but the system that was created that we were all sort of like indoctrined by. There are things that you do. You push forward, you say yes. You keep going no matter what.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

And that's not always healthy. And I think it is a myth that you can do it all. Yes. Can I do it all? Yeah. But I can't do it all at one time.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And the idea that that's achievable, I think is unhealthy. Yeah. So for me, I do like what you say. Maybe it's not balance. It's compromise. Right. Like, I will compromise this thing for the moment so that I can do this and do it really well.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And it sort of, again, I mean, it's so mindset based, but it's also this, it feels like the same or similar relationship that I had when I started realizing what the difference was between reactivity and responsivity.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like, how am I in this situation? Is my reaction what this situation needs? Or is. Is actually the best thing for me to, hmm. Sit with it for a second, take a couple breaths, maybe sit in a little discomfort even. Right.

[Ariana DeBose]

Discomfort is great. It has been my greatest teacher of the last year.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Talk about that.

[Ariana DeBose]

I. I've had.

[Camilla Luddington]

Hey.

[Ariana DeBose]

I mean, 2025 has been a doozy, but 2024 was a real. Yeah, too. Like, I had several, like, situations where I just was like, I. My response is not necessary. It's not. I cannot control. Cannot control. Oh, it's word. It's. It is. It is. Well, in. In a world that searches for perfection.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Control is like, it's got a.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Seems like the highway to it, but it's not.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's so not. In fact, it's the antithesis. It's flow.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The roadblock. The roadblock.

[Ariana DeBose]

Let, like, let go of that shit. But I. I had several situations and it just felt like I was like, ooh, this is one thing after another. But the answer to all of it was to let myself be uncomfortable. To hear it. Learn what is mine, to take on what is not mine. Water off a duck's back. But you have to breathe through it. You just have to. Because not everything needs a response from you. I want to defend myself so often, and I would love to tell people how wrong they are. But guess what? It's not really going to help a situation because people are going to say and do and think what they want to think without being informed.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep.

[Ariana DeBose]

And that's their ignorance, not mine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yep.

[Ariana DeBose]

I can only do what I can do. So last year was a practice for me of sitting in my discomfort and actually thinking consciously about what I want to choose.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Good news. Your favorite Caribbean beaches are [e-mail] Cheap.

[Unknown]

Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand for your dollar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Check out their beach favorite sale score. $175 instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends April 1st. Go to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Episode is brought to you by Hulu. Life's full of little dramas. The kind you don't want. The annoying everyday kind. And Hulu has the drama you want.

[Unknown]

Come to Hulu to stream thrilling dramas like Law and Order, SVU, NCIS and 91 1. Stream Heart Tugging dramas like Grey's Anatomy, Gilmore Girls and Scandal.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And don't miss fresh Hulu original dramas like paradise starring Sterling K. Brown, Good American Family starring Ellen Pompeo and Nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman.

[Unknown]

It's time to put all of life's little dramas on hold. Forget about traffic, that annoying DM or running out of milk.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Dive into a drama on Hulu and remember why you love drama in the first place. There's so much drama on Hulu and it's all in one place.

[Unknown]

So let's pause the annoying everyday drama and play the drama you want. Hulu. The drama you want.

[Natalie Dormer]

Audrey's Children starring Natalie Dormer tells the untold true story of Dr. Audrey Evans who is recruited to an elite Children's Hospital in 1969 as the first female to head her department. Frustrated with the futility of current therapies and refusing to accept more can't be done for her patients, she pioneers revolutionary life saving treatments and co founds Ronald McDonald House Charities. A trailblazer with a relentless spirit, Dr. Evans Fight for change, redefined medicine and continues to impact the lives of millions of people. Now playing only in theaters.

[Camilla Luddington]

Legends, the greatest social casino and sportsbook exclusive experience has [e-mail] with thousands of the best free to play casino style games, chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money. Legends is revolutionizing the Vegas experience wherever you are. If you love winning then you'll love playing at L E G e n d z.com Legends is a free to play social casino void. We're prohibited to play responsibly. Visit legends.com for more information. Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So when you talk about not knowing what you're doing next, will you, do you, do you believe that you need to like do you think that you'll think about it and then you'll manifest it and it will come. Are you vision boardy or do you.

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, that's a good question. I'm I, I do vision board. I journal a lot but I stuff getting I used to be like oh my God, I would love to work with so and so one day and I put their picture on my little vision board.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Or I'D love to make a movie like da da da da da. Yeah. And. Or I'd love to do this musical. That'd be great. I don't do that anymore. I use photos to represent the feeling of an experience that I would like to have. Because I realized in trying to manifest so specifically, I was leaning into an assumption I had made about what that experience would be or an assumption I'd made about a person I really want to work with. Because when you're. Or in my youth, like a lot of people do, we look at starry people, and because of the access that the media has to them, we assume that that is so clearly who they are. We know them. They're our bestie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

They're not. And I love all of the folks that I've had the privilege to work with, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I've met some folks that I really thought were one thing or this was the narrative that they put out in the world, and it became a different thing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And when you make assumptions about people, you rob them of their humanity because the reality is they have the right to be whoever they are.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And so I was like, that was a big thing for me. So I stopped manifesting so specifically about, like, I want to work with this. These types or these people. And more like, I would like an experience that is a fantasy type of piece, and the people that come together to make it happen are truly collaborative and, like, really want to play in, like, the most weird, creative ways. Like, I manifest from that space now.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Because then I can be surprised by who the universe sends me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I'm trust and trust. So I'm in a real trust relationship.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it.

[Ariana DeBose]

Trust with the universe right now.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I used to think that manifesting was like telling the universe what I wanted. And then.

[Ariana DeBose]

And then it supposed to give.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, it's supposed to give it to me. That's evidently not how it works.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's not how it works.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I appreciate you describing your experience because it sounds wise.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. That has really worked for me. I've also gone on a spiritual journey over the last couple of years, spending time with the universe, whatever that is to you. That could be going on a walk, noticing the trees, listening to the sounds of wherever you are. That's spiritual to me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And how you commune with it. Like, how you. What you get from it.

[Ariana DeBose]

What do you get from it? What energy are you putting out and.

[Jessica Capshaw]

How quickly it can change your day? So we're in new York City, right? We're in New York City at the end of March, which on any given year is really. You never know what you're gonna fucking get.

[Ariana DeBose]

You really don't.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I saw daffodils the other day and they changed your whole day. I heard you say, like, this is what I'm good at and this is what I want. And I know this about myself. And that to me is so EAS and confident. And I've seen you perform, I know you as a person. So that's like, yes, check. I'm so glad she sees her like I see her. When do you find yourself on the other side of that? When do you, when do you, what are the creepy, sneaky, you know, because a lot of our listeners, you know, will either call in with questions and there are different parts of their life, right? Like they're in high school or they're, you know, in their 20s, 30s, all the decades, right. And there's so many questions about like, ugh, I, I, I, I tell myself this story and I, I doubt myself, or I, I think I've got, I, I think I've already seen everything. Like, the end game has already arrived. I'm going to be in this job forever. I'm going to be in this toxic friendship forever. I'm in the wrong friend group. I'm, I want to be in this one. Like all these things. And when you find yourself in those moments, is there something that is unique to you that kind of helps you get out of it or reframe it? I mean, I love that question.

[Ariana DeBose]

First of all.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Thank you.

[Ariana DeBose]

I love a reframe from the space of, I think every person, place, thing, experience that I have in my life is literally a lesson every single person, and it could be big or small. So I try to reframe things when I have these moments of self doubt or this feels like I've grown out of it. Okay, well, if that is the question, if the question is, have I grown out of this space? Answer the question for yourself. But also, have you asked the questions, for example, in a friend group? I love that. As a, as an example, in a friend group, if you think you've grown out of it, have you used your words, have you actually made the effort to be in conversation with these people that have been lifelong friends? Or if something has gone down and it's not great, is the offense so vile that you don't want to have the conversation and it doesn't matter what the answer is, but just know that that's the Answer. If your answer is no, you gotta own that. No.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. So if anyone ever asks you, you.

[Ariana DeBose]

Got an answer, you'd be like, no, I walked away.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So because we live in this time now with the phones, we can just spit off the, like, first of all, cop out. I know, I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

Cop out.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So you're saying, go, go ask the questions.

[Ariana DeBose]

Go say the things. Go ask the question. Go say the things. When you're living through wild times like this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

I think the way that you survive them, the way that you enrich yourself, your humanity, your. Your human experience is by asking those questions of yourself and other people.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And you got to be brave, and.

[Ariana DeBose]

You do have to be brave. There's some conversations I'm putting off because I'm too chicken shit to have.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, I know that. I got a girl pair. Put my girl pants on pretty soon and have them.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Because what do you do to do that? Like, how do you do you self talk? Do you give yourself a deadline?

[Ariana DeBose]

I do like a deadline because, hey, accountability. Yeah, I love. I do like a deadline, but I also, again, being an energy person, I have to feel my way into it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And nine times out of 10, if I set that deadline and I'm committed to getting there, the moment will show up before the deadline.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But that's because I'm like, no, I know that I need to have this conversation. I want to have this conversation. But again, if you ask yourself those questions, need, want, the why will it change anything?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Those are great.

[Ariana DeBose]

Because there are a lot of people whose ears are closed. They don't want to be opened for better, worse, or whatever. But I just feel like, again, stop with the going.

[Jessica Capshaw]

If you're doing that and you're following that and you're not getting what you need or want from it.

[Ariana DeBose]

That's an also.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I was going to say that's that and. And having the courage to hear it. Not just.

[Ariana DeBose]

I was. I was at a dinner with a director that I love and we were chatting and we were talking about two different, Very different experiences, but similar in the ways that when you're working in groups, sometimes, like the group that found you and gave you your start may not always be the group that's like, gonna see you and elevate you. Sometimes you gotta take a big leap and run away and go do it yourself.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. It's not unkind to grow. You're not doing anything to that group by leaving. And how you do it is the most important thing.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes, yes. See, I love that. Oh, My God, you just modeled literally what I do. Like, I sit there and I'm like, cool birds. Are you. How are we gonna do this?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I like to say, like, it's how you. Nine times out of 10, it's not necessarily what you're saying, but it's how you're saying it. And in a, In a professional capacity. And personally, I mean, I'm blunt, I will say, but I will say it kindly.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, you do.

[Ariana DeBose]

The first time, the second time, the third time, you're pushing your luck.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know. I respect that about you. I, I, I'm not great at that yet. I'm a work in progress in that way, you know, and, but it's funny, because other people, I say this to my kids all the time because they say things, and especially the teenagers. It's not what they're saying. The content.

[Ariana DeBose]

The content of what you are saying.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The content is totally passable. Yay. Good for you. That's a great question to ask. It's how you asked it. And oftentimes. And it's made me think, hmm, is there a connection between adolescence and adulthood in this way? They don't hear themselves.

[Ariana DeBose]

Right.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I feel like I've spent quite a bit of time with adults that I am now understanding as people who do not hear themselves, ding, ding, ding. And I need to figure out when I can say, oh, they just don't hear themselves. And when I need to say, you don't hear yourself, you're not. Or rather, I'm. I'm. This is what I'm hearing from you.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Does that match up with what you're trying to say? Yeah. Because if it doesn't, then we can have a conversation, and if it does off.

[Ariana DeBose]

Correct. You're not for me. We're at the end of the road.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like, I'm done.

[Ariana DeBose]

I can't.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And like. And I wish you well.

[Ariana DeBose]

I do. And that's the thing. I love a lot of people from afar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I really do.

[Ariana DeBose]

I love a lot of people from afar because I'm just like, I respect it. I see it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

I, I cannot vibe with that energy.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's draining to me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But what if you do, if you work. I mean, I already know. I mean, what do you do when you're working with that?

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, boundaries. A little boundary.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh. And. But are you one of those people who can, like, I'm asking for a friend. Cold. No, I know you're not cold because I know you. But I'm saying, like, are you able? Is it, like, is the boundary kind of like. Because, again, we work in a. We work in an environment where we're doing the scenes and then they call cut. And then we go to our cast chairs or our trailers or whatever. But there's still community outside of the scene, right? Yeah. And so when you're working with someone, let's just. Like, I'm going to manufacture the example, so it's not personal for anyone. Right. But, like, someone who's like, they can't stop talking, and it's just such a drain. Like, everything's wrong, the costume's not right, and the makeup didn't have this, and the coffee is terrible and everything's wrong. And I struggle with the fact that I probably am a little bit. I'm a little. The other direction. I'm like, everything's great. You're holding a bag of. It's not that great. Right. Okay.

[Ariana DeBose]

I'm just kidding.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But it's not dripping on me.

[Ariana DeBose]

Not dripping on me. Like, the container is fine. The bag does not have a hole.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, no, but, like, when they're doing that. So when you're working and they call, do you. Do you. Is the boundary. The personal boundary? And then once you start working, you're able. Like, you're like, we're in a different world. And so who we are doesn't matter.

[Ariana DeBose]

I've done a couple. I've done it a couple different ways because I'm still very much in process and feel like every time I've made a film, like, my choices are a little different.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

I'm not exceptionally method. Sometimes my. My characters, like, creep in a little bit.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I'm the type of person that, if you've caught me on a good day, I'd be like, ugh, babes. Kind of joy. And then I will go to Crafty and get a snack because there's my joy.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

That, to me, helps put up a boundary kind of joy. Babes. Yeah, it's fine. You catch me on a day where I might have had it a little bit, and it's gonna be like, do you hear yourself?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Ariana DeBose]

I mean, you're excellent, but do you hear yourself?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Cool.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And then action.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have. I mean, sometimes the choice, depending on who you're dealing with. I mean, sometimes the choice is to just let them.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know, I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

And that's hard.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know.

[Ariana DeBose]

I'm a helper. I do like to help people. I can't fix anybody's problems, but I like to Support and help if I can.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, and obviously the Let them is so interesting because it's, you know, it hails from just ancient religions and a little bit of stoicism, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. But Mel Robbins has made it very popular with her book, which is a beautiful book. And we had her on the show and it was very funny. Cause Camilla, we're very yin and yang and I wish she was here. And she was like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm missing Ariana. But she, she was a little bit like. And you, you hear it in the podcast. She's like. I'm like, yes, all on board. Like, let them, let them go do their thing and, and they could just be talking all sorts of stuff about me somewhere else and I'm just gonna be fine with that. And she's a little bit like, hold on a second. Why do I have to let them?

[Ariana DeBose]

Why do I have to let them?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, no. Why do I have to let them? And she, she talked to Mel and she was like, I don't know. I don't know about this. Like, what about this and what about that?

[Ariana DeBose]

Oh, wow.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And it was great because I realized that and it's my way. It's okay. I will take the information in and go be the helper and the doer and the fixer and the whatever. And we need those, right? We need those in our, in our communities. We also need the people that are like, wait a second, wait a second. Prove it. Prove it. Why? Why do you think so? Because then we actually really deeply believe in it. It's been. It's been shown to us, it's been proven, it's been questioned. I mean, that's the most amazing thing about debate. I love that. I love that when it's in a respectful way, right? Good news. Your favorite Caribbean beaches are [e-mail] Cheap.

[Unknown]

Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand for your dollar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Check out their beach. Favorite sale to score 175 doll 75. Instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends April 1st. Go to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Life's full of little dramas. The kind you don't want. The annoying everyday kind. And Hulu has the drama you want.

[Unknown]

Come to Hulu to stream thrilling dramas like Law & Order, SVU, NCIS and Nine One One Stream. Heart tugging dramas like Grey's Anatomy, Gilmore Girls and Scandal and don't miss fresh.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Hulu original dramas like paradise starring Sterling K. Brown, Good American Family starring Ellen Pompeo and Nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman.

[Unknown]

It's time to put all of life's little dramas on hold. Forget about traffic, that annoying DM or running out of milk.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Dive into a drama on Hulu and remember why you love drama in the first place. There's so much drama on Hulu and it's all in one place.

[Unknown]

So let's pause the annoying everyday drama and play the drama you want. Hulu, the drama you want.

[Natalie Dormer]

Audrey's Children starring Natalie Dormer tells the untold true story of Dr. Audrey Evans who is recruited to an elite Children's Hospital in 1969 as the first female to head her department. Frustrated with the futility of current therapies and refusing to accept more can't be done for her patients, she pioneers revolutionary life saving treatments and co founds Ronald McDonald House Charities. A trailblazer with a relentless spirit, Dr. Evans Fight for change, redefined medicine and continues to impact the lives of millions of people. Now playing only in theaters.

[Camilla Luddington]

Legends, the greatest social, casino and sports experience has [e-mail] with thousands of the best free to play casino style games, chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money, Legends is revolutionizing the Vegas experience wherever you are. If you love winning then you'll love playing at L E G e n d z.com Legends is a free to play social casino void we're prohibited play responsibly. Visit legends.com for more information. Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun.

[Ariana DeBose]

I love that story that Meryl tells about Jane Fonda. When they were doing Julia and Meryl was like her apparently was like one of her first films or something. She was so excited to be there and she like goes up a rehearsal and she like they're putting things on the floor and so they do the first, first take and it's fabulous. Just like great, I'm going to try something new. And she does something completely different. And then Jane says errol, if you stand on the marks you will be in the light and then you will be in the movie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's like what I think she told.

[Ariana DeBose]

That story at Jane's like AFI Lifetime Achievement ceremony and I've never forgotten it. And in fact I watched that when I was like on the road doing Bring it on the Musical years ago because that's how I was learning. And I never forgot that. I was like, if I ever make a movie, I know that the tape on the floor is my mark and I need to stand on it because then I will be in the light and I will be in the movie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, that's exactly right. That was a hard lesson for me to learn, girl. Because I liked when I first came into. When I first came into this business as an actual. I mean, I'd always been on the sidelines watching it and just like, with literal stars in my eyes, watching all these incredible people do all these incredible things. And it was a little bit. I mean, a bit like you said, starting off with something that was just so. I mean, it's so hard to come up with a word.

[Ariana DeBose]

Right?

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's like, it's not perfect. It's not high end. It's just. It's. It's so ideal. Like, it's an ideal everything. You're working with people who are the best of the best and all that. So you got to be in it as your first like. Like that you said, first experience thing. I got to watch from the sidelines. And so in a lot of ways, I thought that's how everybody was.

[Ariana DeBose]

Right.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I thought everybody brought their best game. They're a game. And I thought everybody was like Tom Hanks, who famously says, right. Like, he shows up on time, and by on time, he means a little bit early.

[Ariana DeBose]

A little bit early.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And he knows his text, which means he knows his lines.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You ever worked with people who don't know their lines?

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's very hard.

[Ariana DeBose]

It is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can be. I find it uniquely challenging.

[Ariana DeBose]

It really can be. I have learned, though, and I don't know if this is like a toxic trait. I will improv to help them find their line.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I think that's being a helper.

[Ariana DeBose]

I know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I guess what. What you do after is probably what's either helpful or not helpful. Right? No, I.

[Ariana DeBose]

Look, I. I have the privilege of working with the law.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're, like, miming.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, I. I don't know. Like, I just. I will when I show up and I can only speak for myself and what I do, but, like, when I show up, like, I'm like, nope, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get the best performance out of me and probably you too.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Because that's just what it is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, I agree with, you know, like.

[Ariana DeBose]

What you're walking into. I don't enjoy it when other people don't know their lines. I try not to be the person that doesn't know their line.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. But every once in a while, this happens.

[Ariana DeBose]

You have a bad day and you're just like, what?

[Jessica Capshaw]

What's the line? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it doesn't connect.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I'm not trying to blame the writer, but sometimes when it doesn't connect, I actually. If it doesn't over and over and over again, I do actually always go. I always think it's me first. And then I just go, is there, like, am I bumping on this for a reason? Does it not connect to the thing? Why, when they say that, do I not think to say this?

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah, well. And I've. I've. I've learned over a couple years, it's like, oh, this is why I want to get to know the writers I'm working with really well, because I want to understand why they did what they did. And I want to also have that, like, open communication of being able to ask questions. Because if I don't feel safe on a set to be like, home, human.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Homeboy, homegirl, home, whatever, person.

[Ariana DeBose]

Can we chat?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Because I am busting this up for you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

And not the positive way. And I really want to get it right.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I've said that very thing many a time. Yeah, I'm busting it up for you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm busting it up for you.

[Ariana DeBose]

Not a great way.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, I mean, again, just having been on a show for so long where you have so many lines and you're doing so many pages a day, I mean, on a movie, you're doing. I mean, for people listening that don't know about this business. Yeah. But when you're making a movie, you're probably doing, like, what, a couple pages a day? I mean, if you're doing an action movie, you're doing, like, half a page a day.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And on a television show, you're doing nine to. I think one day, we did, like, 12 pages in a day. So it's a lot of dialogue. It's a lot of dialogue. And. And to be fair, there was an actor who was. I was working with. They could not remember their lines to save their life. And the farthest that I went, I didn't just improv. I was like, we're not all going to go home unless this gets done, so let's help get this done. I went over to scripty and I grabbed some blank pages and I wrote down their lines and I taped them to my chest so that they could just because the camera didn't even need to be on them.

[Ariana DeBose]

No.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Right. It just. We just needed them to just say it.

[Ariana DeBose]

It happens.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I drove home that night and I had the same thought. Like, is this a toxic trait?

[Ariana DeBose]

Is this a toxic trait? Helper. Right now? And it's. It again, compromise, balance, whatever you want to call it. But some. Sometimes you got to get in there and just get it done.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's like, I think about the state of our industry sometimes. And, you know, a lot of these shows cost a lot of money. There's a lot of time, a lot of resources. A lot of people are doing so much work to make this thing happen. And I know we as the actors are the, like, shiniest part of.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're the front of house.

[Ariana DeBose]

We're the front of house.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But we're like the last component. So many other things gotta come together for us to be able to do those things. But that's why when I show up, I'm like, not a. Most of this is not about me. This is just about me doing my part. Sometimes it can become toxic without even knowing it. And it's like you wake up one day and you're like, what happened? We were good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. You know, started off so promising.

[Ariana DeBose]

We were so strong.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, you know, I think.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But see, to go back to the. Where we started with this, you have to have leaders that are morally centered, kind, mindful, efficient, and I mean, fill in the business that they're in. Right. Because they're gonna eat other things if they're gonna be in certain businesses. But when you have that. When you have that kind of leadership, when someone goes awry, right. If mom and dad or mom and mom or dad and dad are driving down the road and the kids are in the back and sister's hitting brother or brother's hitting sister, then what would happen? You'd pull over the car and someone.

[Ariana DeBose]

Would get in touch with us.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What? Right. Same. Same in the rules of life. Right. We need the leaders to pull the fucking car over and be like, hey, stop hitting your brother.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah, I think, yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Stop hitting your sister.

[Ariana DeBose]

Kind of love that. And I mean, there are times where I'm just like, again, industry wide. It's not like just movies or just TV or whatever, but there are moments where I'm like, hey, guys, mom, dad.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Whomever you are, whomever my parents are today, wizard of Oz. Help. Help. Yes. Who made that choice? Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know, and again, it just. I think. I think we're.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And ideally, you'd like it to not be hr for real.

[Ariana DeBose]

For real. But I think we're living in wild times as it is. So as I'm like moving through the industry, trying to do it with a semblance of integrity and whatnot. And you are. Maintain my own sense of humanity. It's like I look at that stuff and I look at how companies seem to be run and I try to choose wisely and to find projects, people, companies that feel like we have the same ethos.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. And that you're matched. Right. You're matched insofar as you can. Because I think that, you know, I do think it's wild to me that actually there's plenty of people who actually have a terrible reputation, but they, they continue to be hired, which is. That's the part that's wild to me. But I actually feel very strongly that it's imperative that you have a good reputation. Like, I. I care very much. I don't know what that. I don't. Maybe that makes me sound like a pick me, but I don't think so. I care very much about my reputation. I care very much what it is, what people's experience is of working with me. And that it is. And that it is positive.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. I don't. I'm the same. And it's not as I will be honest in saying, like, it used to be from a space of, like, I have to be liked. If I'm liked, I'll continue to work.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Which can feel really trivial of a thought. But it's actually not that I, I care what people feel and think when they work with me. So in essence, I do care about my reputation.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Because when I come, I am always going with the intention of being a problem solver, of turning in good work, of. I am of maintaining the reality that I am a problem solver, not someone who creates problems.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

I'm not the problem.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I'd rather be known for excellence. Like when she shows up, she does excellent work.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's kind.

[Ariana DeBose]

We have a good time.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

The energy's not rank.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Why would you want that? I was always taught, like, be the. Be the energy in the room you wanna work with. So why, if that's what you really wanna work with. My God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Have fun.

[Ariana DeBose]

I wanna get you a Reiki session immediately.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Clear your aura.

[Ariana DeBose]

I can't. Like, that's not for me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's so true. It's so true. Yeah, well, I think it's, you know, I think our, our industry also. I mean, I don't know, maybe if this is. This speaks to when or how I started. But I think that it used to be very focused on the outside, like how things looked. And I still think there's that, you know, that. That element. But I think we're entering a time where, in a very positive way, there's just. There's. There's. There's actual room, there's actual space. There's actual desire to hire a lot of different kinds of people. So your looks are different. And because they're different, we're all just getting used. The fact that we live in a real world where we are. Where we're going to look at things on screen that look like the world around us instead of just looking at one kind of thing. And I think that it's. It's so important for the younger people, but, I mean, the older people, the younger people in between, it's important for everyone, but it's. It's changing things.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. It's good. We all have to embrace that change.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know, and that's where, like, the. The generations have to find that compromise. Right. Like the. The ability to embrace the changes that are necessary. We all agree are necessary.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

And start to live into the change. It's. And I. I agree with you. I think we are seeing that, and I think it's important and it should continue to be like, it's. Part of that change is how I'm even here. It's how you met me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

You know what I mean?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, that. That's. It's. It's good. I think the fact that we can see that is indicative of something really positive. It's. It's our ability, I think, in the midst of all the crazy, to continue to embrace the change and be a part of the positive change instead of letting all that good, good change slip right on back to what it used to be.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And the recognition of humanity and the experience of being human and the experience being very, very different for every single human. If you can't hear yourself the same way. I mean, think about all the things we've talked about in the past hour where it's like everybody's coming with a different perspective, a set of different set of experiences, a different set of intentions. So many. And it's funny, I remember talking to someone who. He was a young father, and he raised his kid in New York City, and I remember saying, like, oh, gosh, I hadn't had kids yet. I was like, what's it like to raise a kid in New York City? And it was like. And there's a million things that are really hard about it. But the thing that I love the most is that, you know, my kid is 16 right now and, and you know what word he never says? And I was like, I don't know what word. And he says, he never says the weird. He never says that's weird. I love that because he grew up in New York City and when you're in New York City and we don't all live in New York City and it's not like it's the best city in the world, except for it is. Yeah, you get to see it all. And by getting to see it all, you don't think anything's weird because there is nothing that's weird. It's just the experience of being human. And some sometimes it looks like this and sometimes it looks like that. Yeah. Good news. Your favorite Caribbean beaches are on [e-mail].

[Unknown]

Cheap Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand.

[Jessica Capshaw]

For your dog dollar. Check out their beach favorite sale to score $175 instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends April 1st. Go to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Episode is brought to you by Hulu. Life's full of little dramas. The kind you don't want. The annoying everyday kind. And Hulu has the drama you want.

[Unknown]

Come to Hulu to stream thrilling dramas like Law & Order, SVU, NCIS and Nine1One. Stream heart tugging dramas like Grey's Anatomy, Gilmore Girls and Scandal and don't miss.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Fresh Hulu original dramas like paradise starring Sterling K. Brown, Good American Family starring Ellen Pompeo, and Nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman.

[Unknown]

It's time to put all of life's little dramas on hold. Forget about traffic, that annoying dm, or running out of milk.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Dive into a drama on Hulu and remember why you love drama in the first place. There's so much drama on Hulu and it's all in one place.

[Unknown]

So let's pause the annoying everyday drama and play the drama you want. Hulu. The drama you want.

[Natalie Dormer]

Audrey's Children starring Natalie Dormer, tells the untold true story of Dr. Audrey Evans, who is recruited to an elite Children's Hospital in 1969 as the first female to head her department. Frustrated with the futility of current therapies and refusing to accept more can't be done for her patients. She pioneers revolutionary life saving treatments and co founds Ronald McDonald House charities a trailblazer with a relentless spirit. Dr. Evans Fight for change, redefined medicine and continues to impact the lives of millions of people. Now playing only in theaters.

[Camilla Luddington]

Legends, the greatest social, casino and sportsbook experience has [e-mail] with thousands of the best free to play casino style games, chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money. Legends is revolutionizing the Vegas experience wherever you are. If you love winning, then you'll love playing at le G E N-D Z.com Legends is a free to play social casino void we're prohibited play responsibly. Visit legends.com for more information. Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, so we have to talk about something that looks new, sassy, spicy, special. And it is your hair.

[Ariana DeBose]

My hair? Short hair, don't care.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I care.

[Ariana DeBose]

I, I, why do I care?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Why do I care so much?

[Ariana DeBose]

No, I, I love this. I love it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I saw it on the gram first. I was bold is what I think we called it.

[Ariana DeBose]

I think it's bold. I like it. I, no, I love it. I started a short haired girly and then over the last four years I was on a long haired journey and I loved that. I loved how I felt. I felt like it was my armor. You couldn't tell me nothing with them inches.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I got home to New York and a day later I called Ursula Stevens my fabulous, fabulous hairdresser and was like, chop it. And this is what she did. I started immediately feeling the vibration of liberation as she was cutting my hair off. And I love it, I love it. And it's funny because I like grow even more into myself and there's this part of me that has always been there but I realized was kind of buried. And that part of me doesn't have a name quite yet. But.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, please let me know when you.

[Ariana DeBose]

When I get there, I'm going to shoot you a text and you're like, oh my God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Uh huh.

[Ariana DeBose]

But I, I don't know. There's an energy that's living with me right now that I love and it is this haircut, this new en vogue do in the 90s.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it so much. So I saw you and one of the first things I said to you was, I too have had that hairdo.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes, you did.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm gonna unearth a picture of it and I'm gonna text you it.

[Ariana DeBose]

Please do.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I'm gonna, we're gonna, I'm not even gonna, I'm not even gonna tip. I'm not even gonna tell you how I felt about it. I mean, from my voice, you don't know if I loved it or.

[Ariana DeBose]

I feel like you've got this good, good jaw.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like, well, you've got the best. I, I, I just, I'm just gonna, just, I'm not gonna to fall asleep flatter. I'm going to just tell you that it looks better on you than it did on me. But we're gonna find the photo of it.

[Ariana DeBose]

We're gonna find the photo.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Mine was more inspired by Wilson Phillips. It was Lachina Phillips. You know, someday somebody's gonna want to make a turn around and say goodbye.

[Ariana DeBose]

Say goodbye to it, baby.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, a lot of that. A lot of that. Yeah, we did that. I will also say that the fantastic thing about living in this modern age that we live in is that while it's short and you can have this incredible energy. Julianne Hough, by the way, because I said I too toy with this Bob idea.

[Ariana DeBose]

Great nabob.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Is that you in the, just in with the, with this, all you have to do is sit in a chair for a couple hours and you can have long hair again.

[Ariana DeBose]

Correct.

[Unknown]

It's true.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, honestly, I love a wig. Like, I do. I've worn you wigs for quite a while. Like, so great. So easy. Honestly, I could have long hair tomorrow.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You could have it tomorrow. And it's so easy. And most people think that it's. They don't understand the magic of it. And I was actually telling the girls, I honestly, I, I almost made one of them cry by telling them that I did not think that Sabrina Carpenter's hair was probably all hers. She wanted to die. She was like, what are you talking about? I said, well, she probably keeps the front out. And she was like, what is this language you're speaking? Why are you trying to tell me that Sabrine's hair is not Sabrina's hair?

[Ariana DeBose]

But, you know, that's the thing, though. You again. Pop stars are real people too, and they have to protect their hair.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

Like, that's a lot of like, like doing goes. You know what I mean?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Ariana DeBose]

And then stage lights.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

If I was them, I'd probably be wearing a wig too.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Ariana DeBose]

So I think it's, I definitely would.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'd have a room full of them. Like, I'd have a lot.

[Ariana DeBose]

Your share does.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. That makes sense to me. Right?

[Ariana DeBose]

Yes. Makes so much sense.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And you just keep, yeah. You pull out the front Because I do think that the. The hairline does give it away.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. I don't. I'm not a. I'm not a lace front fan, if I'm honest.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, it looks a little. Yeah, yeah, it can be.

[Ariana DeBose]

Nine times out of 10, I can see it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah, of course you can.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I'm very picky about the wigs I wear in film on camera, because a bad wig.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, because, listen, a bad Anything. A bad wig, a bad prosthetic, it just takes you out of it, girl, don't it? Yeah. That's why the unsung heroes, man, all those people.

[Ariana DeBose]

I'm telling hmu, like, y'all, not only.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Do they make you look like that, but they also give you all the best. Best gossip.

[Ariana DeBose]

They do give you the best gossip there. Yeah. I love. I love a hair and makeup trailer. I really do.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's the best.

[Ariana DeBose]

But then. But then again, you got to be like, it's gonna be okay, guys.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, everything's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, don't worry. I do that. I will do that.

[Ariana DeBose]

Okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And also, I'm also much more like. I definitely always make sure that I'm like an. I'm an incoming receiver of the information.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. It doesn't go anywhere.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't ever. I'm. I'm good at keeping that. That. That. That line.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah. You also like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm. I like to partake in. We were. We were talking about this the other day on the show. I like to partake in community building gossip. Like, the things that tie us together.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm not a nasty gossiper.

[Ariana DeBose]

No.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't pass on bad information, but I've been known to come to go up to people who I don't know because someone else said something great about them and be like, you don't know me at all. But this person said this amazing thing about you. Yes. I'll do that all the time. Yeah. And now I love you. I hear. Here you are.

[Ariana DeBose]

I've also done that. I'm pretty sure people look at me like I'm insane, but it was meant to be.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's a good insane.

[Ariana DeBose]

It's a good insane.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're spreading your powers of good.

[Ariana DeBose]

Spread joy, kindness.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's free. Exactly.

[Ariana DeBose]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And it's a renewable source. Resource. It's a renewable resource.

[Ariana DeBose]

I like that. You should put that on a T shirt.

[Jessica Capshaw]

There you go.

[Ariana DeBose]

Kindness. It's like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it renewable resource of kindness.

[Ariana DeBose]

Come on. That's good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I want you to know that my experience of being with you for the past hour has been very good. I have very much enjoyed this. I will further on your reputation is intact. I will further your good reputation. Thank you.

[Ariana DeBose]

And I yours.

[Jessica Capshaw]

As will all the people no doubt that have listened to this. And thank you. Thank you very much for being here with me. I look forward to every single time I get to see your bright shining eyes. And you are just, just one of the greatest gifts to to our industry and being able to watch you. But thank you for being here and I love you.

[Ariana DeBose]

I love you. Thank you for having me. You're so cool. You're so cool. My friend is amazing. A I love my friend. You heard it here first.

[Jessica Capshaw]

All right, well that's what we call the end of the episode. Foreign Caribbean beaches are on [e-mail] Cheap.

[Unknown]

Caribbean is your go to website for finding the best deals on all inclusive vacation packages. They're all about getting you more sand for your dollar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Check out their Beach Favorite Sale to score 175 instant savings on bookings of four nights or more to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Arub and the Bahamas.

[Unknown]

Offer ends April 1st. Go to CheapCaribbean.com to start saving.

[Camilla Luddington]

Legends the greatest social casino and sportsbook experience has [e-mail] with thousands of the best free to play casino style games, chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money, Legends is revolutionizing the Vegas experience wherever you are. If you love winning, then you'll love playing. Playing at L E G e n d z.com Legends is a free to play social casino. Void we're prohibited play responsibly. Visit legends.com for more information. Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun.

[Unknown]

Today we're excited to partner with BMW to celebrate International Women's Day.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Absolutely. BMW is honoring the incredible strength and resilience of women who drive change every day. They are all about amplifying important conversations and ensuring every voice is heard.

[Unknown]

We've been fortunate to work alongside amazing, dynamic women and are committed to paying it forward.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This International Women's Day, BMW is celebrating female warriors. Women who break barriers, challenge limits and inspire us all.

[Unknown]

Together, we're driving the world forward. BMW supports your journey. Visit BMW USA.com the ultimate driving Machine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The Unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Camilla Luddington]

Chase Mobile app is available mobile for select mobile devices.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank N A Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Company.