Call It With Harry Shum Jr.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Call It What It Is" Episode Featuring Harry Shum Jr.

Podcast Information:

• Title: Call It What It Is
• Host/Authors: Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington (iHeartPodcasts)
• Episode Guest: Harry Shum Jr.
• Episode Release Date: February 24, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with a lively introduction by hosts Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington, who set the tone for an engaging conversation about friendship, career journeys, and life’s ups and downs. They welcome their special guest, Harry Shum Jr., known for his roles in "Glee" and "Grey's Anatomy."

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2. Welcoming Harry Shum Jr.

Camilla Luddington:
"We have Harry Shum Jr. joining us today, an incredible actor and a quadruple threat who brings so much light and kindness to every role."
([02:30] - [03:00])

Harry expresses his gratitude for being invited and shares his excitement about being part of the podcast.

---

3. Harry’s Journey on "Glee"

Jessica Capshaw:
"I loved hearing about your audition process for Glee. It sounds like such a whirlwind experience."
([07:14] - [10:37])

Harry recounts his unexpected audition for "Glee," initially unaware of singer-centric expectations, and how he adapted to fit the role of Blue, an intern entangled in romantic plotlines. He highlights the intensive rehearsals and long hours required for dance numbers, often rehearsing and shooting scenes within the same day.
Notable Quote:
"I had to come in at 5 AM to learn the dance for that same day sometimes because that was the only way it would work."
([07:54] - [08:00])

---

4. Experiences on Set: Rehearsals and Dance Sequences

Camilla Luddington:
"Your dance numbers were so complex. How did you manage the long hours and intense rehearsals?"
([18:41] - [20:20])

Harry explains the demanding schedule of "Glee," where even a single song could take up to seven hours to shoot. He emphasizes the collaborative effort of the crew and cast to make each performance seamless, despite the chaotic environment.
Notable Quote:
"Shooting a whole day for just one song was nuts, but the talented crew made it all possible."
([19:30] - [19:45])

---

5. Cast Dynamics and Guest Stars

Harry Shum Jr.:
"Working with guest stars like Kristin Chenoweth and Ricky Martin was phenomenal. Each brought something unique to the show."
([24:55] - [26:02])

Harry shares memorable interactions with guest stars, highlighting the diversity and talent they brought to "Glee." He mentions Steve Perry’s surprise appearance and how the show fostered a culturally significant environment through its varied musical genres.

---

6. The Impact of "Glee"

Jessica Capshaw:
"Glee was a cultural phenomenon that redefined musical TV shows. The way you integrated popular and Broadway songs was genius."
([12:40] - [13:32])

Harry discusses the show's innovative approach to music selection, blending familiar hits with original performances that resonated deeply with audiences. He reflects on how "Glee" served as a learning experience for him, expanding his musical repertoire beyond his dance background.

Notable Quote:
"The songs on Glee weren’t just covers; they were about making each performance meaningful to the storyline."
([13:00] - [13:15])

---

7. Transition to "Grey’s Anatomy"

Camilla Luddington:
"How did your transition from Glee to Grey’s Anatomy come about?"
([49:47] - [52:10])

Harry elaborates on his casting process for "Grey’s Anatomy," the responsibilities that come with joining such a long-standing and beloved series, and the legacy he felt honored to be part of. He discusses how the show's commitment to storytelling and character development aligned with his professional values.

Notable Quote:
"Joining Grey’s Anatomy felt like a natural progression, being part of a legacy that cares deeply about its characters and stories."
([51:00] - [51:20])

---

8. Personal Stories and Relationships

Jessica Capshaw:
"What’s it like balancing your personal life with such demanding roles?"
([28:34] - [32:05])

Harry opens up about the challenges performers face in balancing personal relationships with intense work schedules. He touches on the importance of love and support in navigating the pressures of fame and professional commitments.

Notable Quote:
"Love is literally the only thing that can resolve a lot of these challenges we face in the industry."
([32:05] - [32:25])

---

9. Recent Projects: Children's Book "Marty"

Harry Shum Jr.:
"My wife and I co-wrote a children’s book called 'Marty,' inspired by our daughter. It’s about a Filipino boy overcoming his fear of dancing with encouragement from his grandma and a Martian friend."
([62:51] - [64:50])

Harry introduces his latest project, a children’s book designed to inspire confidence and creativity in young readers. He explains the collaborative process with his wife and the story’s focus on cultural representation and personal growth.

Notable Quote:
"'Marty' isn’t just a story; it’s a movement to help children embrace who they are through dance and imagination."
([63:30] - [63:45])

---

10. Reflections on Fame and Legacy

Harry Shum Jr.:
"Being part of shows like Glee and Grey’s Anatomy has taught me the importance of legacy and the impact we have on future generations."
([53:37] - [54:53])

The conversation delves into the long-term effects of being part of iconic TV shows, how they shape perceptions, and the responsibilities that come with influencing both fans and aspiring professionals in the industry.

Notable Quote:
"What we do on screen goes beyond entertainment; it educates and inspires the next generation of artists and professionals."
([53:00] - [53:20])

---

11. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts express their admiration for Harry’s achievements and the heartfelt projects he’s involved in. They discuss the enduring bonds formed on set and the mutual respect among cast members that transcends projects.

Camilla Luddington:
"We’re so grateful to have you here today, Harry. Your stories are inspiring and truly a testament to your talent and character."
([68:42] - [68:55])

Harry Shum Jr.:
"Thank you both for having me. It’s been an incredible conversation, and I’m honored to share my experiences with your crew."
([65:06] - [65:13])

---

Key Takeaways:

• Harry Shum Jr.’s Versatility: From dancing in "Glee" to acting in "Grey’s Anatomy," Harry showcases his multifaceted talent.
• The Grueling Nature of Production: The demanding schedules and intense rehearsals behind successful TV shows.
• Cultural Impact: "Glee" as a groundbreaking show that blended diverse musical genres and fostered a rich cultural environment.
• Balancing Personal and Professional Life: The challenges and importance of maintaining personal relationships amidst a high-pressure career.
• Creative Ventures: Harry’s foray into writing a children’s book emphasizes his dedication to inspiring the younger generation.
• Legacy and Influence: The lasting impact of iconic TV shows on audiences and future professionals.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Harry Shum Jr.:
  "I had to come in at 5 AM to learn the dance for that same day sometimes because that was the only way it would work."
  ([07:54] - [08:00])

• Harry Shum Jr.:
  "Shooting a whole day for just one song was nuts, but the talented crew made it all possible."
  ([19:30] - [19:45])

• Harry Shum Jr.:
  "Love is literally the only thing that can resolve a lot of these challenges we face in the industry."
  ([32:05] - [32:25])

• Harry Shum Jr.:
  "'Marty' isn’t just a story; it’s a movement to help children embrace who they are through dance and imagination."
  ([63:30] - [63:45])

• Harry Shum Jr.:
  "What we do on screen goes beyond entertainment; it educates and inspires the next generation of artists and professionals."
  ([53:00] - [53:20])

---

Conclusion: This episode of "Call It What It Is" offers a deep dive into Harry Shum Jr.'s experiences in the entertainment industry, highlighting his dedication, the collaborative environment of major TV shows, and his passion for inspiring others through creative projects. Listeners gain valuable insights into the behind-the-scenes challenges and the profound impact that dedicated performers can have both on and off the screen.

Transcript

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[Harry Shum Jr.]

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[Harry Shum Jr.]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Harry Shum Jr.]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Harry Shum Jr.]

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[Harry Shum Jr.]

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[Camilla Luddington]

Call it what It Is with Jessica.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Capshaw and Camille Ludington, an iHeartRadio podcast.

[Camilla Luddington]

Well hello, hello, hello, hello Call it crew and welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it what It Is.

[Camilla Luddington]

Call It a Very Special Grades Anatomy.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Guest we have a guy.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh my God, what are we gonna do? Does my hair look good? Does my makeup look okay? Oh my God, I know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We have a man on board.

[Camilla Luddington]

You know what? Because we have a man. We gotta ask the boy question, which is, does Harry think that boys and girls.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can just really be friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. You really, you're hanging on to that. You need it all.

[Camilla Luddington]

I need, I need all that. Listen, I'm gonna keep it going. Yep, keep it going. We have Harry.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Harry.

[Camilla Luddington]

Harry Shum Jr. And when he joined our cast, I had not worked with him before. And what an incredible actor. Incredible light he brings. He is so fun. He's the kindest. He's, he's, he's a. He's a quadruple million threat. And he plays Blue, an intern on our show right now who is entangled in a lot of romance entangling and is our cocky intern. He has a lot of really funny one liners. And I gotta say that from the first table read with him, I was like, yep, I can see why they cast him.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love that. Oh, instant magic. I don't mind a slow burn, but I like a little instant magic too.

[Camilla Luddington]

He. A little instant magic. And I text him and I was like, will you come on the podcast? And he was like, yes. And so here we are. Here we are. We're bringing the heat, we're bringing the. The sexy, we're bringing the, the hair.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The hair spice. Let's bring in the hair.

[Camilla Luddington]

I think let's bring him in and we can get into it because I have a list of 5 million questions.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Harry, what's happening?

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, my God. We just did a little intro about you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We what?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

We did amazing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I mean, it's just the list goes on and on. It's like, I don't. It's not a single threat, not a double, not a triple. It's more than a quadruple.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's almost annoying.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What don't you do? And also you've won awards for it. You not only do it, but you win awards for it.

[Camilla Luddington]

You've been nominated. You. I mean, it's is. I read your resume in preparation. I mean, I know you, but I wanted to throw it across the room.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She read about you. She knows you, but she also read about you.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I am honored. I was so honored when. When you asked me, I was like, yeah, I've listened to the podcast and it's so wonderful. And I remember, you know, when, when you told us in the group text that you were doing, I just thought it was, it was perfect, especially you two and getting to meet you, Jessica, very recently. Yeah, you Know when. When you came back, it was. It's just so neat to. To be talking to y'all. And. And you know what? One thing I want to add to that, which is actually my prouder moment right now. Beyond all is. Is I clean. I don't know why I'm telling you. I was on the roof this morning cleaning out the gutters of my house, and I was very proud of it. I was like, yes, look at those. Look at these pristine gutters right now.

[Camilla Luddington]

Anyways, that's what you get excited about as you get older, though.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

As you get older, you're like, look at those gutters.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like I said, sexy gutter talk. He's cleaning his own gutters. Do you understand how sexy that is?

[Camilla Luddington]

We need picture. This could be a whole calendar.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Actually, that's next level.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I'm doing crab walks, like, on the slanted roof and making sure. I know. Oh.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I bet there's a song on. And it was, like, in time too, because we know where you started. And maybe a drone camera that was getting it.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Edit together all the footage.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Should have done that.

[Camilla Luddington]

Should have done that.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yep.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Next time.

[Camilla Luddington]

We told the fans that you were coming. We told the listeners, the call it crew. We call them the crew know you were coming. And they asked a lot of questions. So if you don't mind, we gotta dive in.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I'm scared, but I. I'm ready.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, no, no. Well, let me. Let me tell you, because I've seen a peek around the corner. You have nothing to be afraid of.

[Camilla Luddington]

You have nothing to be afraid of.

[Jessica Capshaw]

If the questions that are coming to you came to me, I would feel like I was doing something right.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can I start with the one that I love the most?

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, go start with one you love.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The most, because it's just really to the point.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Harry, why are you so fine?

[Camilla Luddington]

We did. That is a legit question.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's a question.

[Camilla Luddington]

Is there a skincare routine they want to know?

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's a different question.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Just answer the first question, which is.

[Camilla Luddington]

Why are you so fine?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

How do you even answer that? I mean, I'm. I'm. My mental being is fine. Emotionally, I'm fine. Okay. I don't know if that helps with everything else. Like, how?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, your mother and father probably had something to do with it.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

My mother and father, and I'll say skincare routine is definitely my wife. I was. I was washing my face with bars of soap bar, like, just, you know, just as dudes do.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And, yeah, I was Gonna say, very manly.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Water. You know, water. Water's nice. And no moisturizer because, you know, you drink water, I guess. And that was my thought process. So I don't know if that. If I didn't have that, I probably would have been. I. I don't even know how to.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It might not be as fine.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

The fine lines would have shown.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

Fine versus fine lines.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. I've asked my question.

[Camilla Luddington]

I love that. Is. That really was a question. That's really funny. Okay. A lot of Glee questions. Yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay. So can we. I want to know personally how. What the casting process was for Glee, because I. And then you told me a story about what your character initially got brought on for and then how, like, the trajectory of being on the show for a long time.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah. You know, it's weird. You kind of look in everything in hindsight, and you think it was. You know, it was meant to be. These things happen. But honestly, I shouldn't have been there. I shouldn't have been where I was. You know, most of the time, it's luck, right? When you're. When we talk about this, there's always a debate, like, is it luck or is it preparation? Is it, like, boat? What is it? You know? And. And. And for that, I was in very. On a Saturday. My grandma passed away that week, and I went up to a funeral to San Francisco and with my family, and I get a call. I was like, well, there's this audition for this show Glee. And I was like, I don't know what it is. And Ryan Murphy, I wasn't too familiar with him. I didn't watch Nip Tuck. And. And my. My wife was. I was like, hey, have you heard the show Glee? And I was like, I think that you worked on something. So she worked on. As a dancer on the pilot. And she. And it was. It was. She's like, so many dancers worked on it. It's a singing show. And I was like, I don't sing. It's like, well, they want you to dance. I was like, okay. And then I went in and read some lines for. It was meant for Finn, which Cory Monty's character. And I read his line, you know his sides. And it was audition. I had to sing. I sang Love by Nat King Cole because that was what was. I guess.

[Camilla Luddington]

Did you have to sing it? Like, was there any, like, pianist in the room with you, or was it just like.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

No, it's all acapella. It was all acapella. Yeah. Yeah. And. And that was like, kind of like, A. Like a talk songy, like. Like you could kind of mess around with it. And I'm spelling words. I was like, I can't mess this up. The lyrics, because I was always deathly afraid of messing with. I was like, if I can spell love, I'm okay. Yeah. And then I sang that and they're just like, okay, cool.

[Camilla Luddington]

Was Ryan Murphy in the room when you did the audition?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

He wasn't. It was Robert Ulrich, who, you know, was a big, big, you know, which obviously cast. Cast Grays as well. And he, you know, he really, really helped me out through it because I didn't know what was. I was auditioning for. Usually when you. You don't know fully, but even as a character, I was like, this is not for a character that I. I'm basing it off of nothing. Really.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, it was also. I feel like that. I feel like we hadn't really seen a show like that on tv.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Absolutely. Yeah. Also, the.

[Camilla Luddington]

The tone of the show, it's, like, hard to figure out before it's airing, because it wasn't airing yet. Right. This is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And it was sort of one of the first of its.

[Camilla Luddington]

I mean, I feel like that's what.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I came after it. But. Yeah, I mean, I can imagine it being hard to imagine.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah. The last show that attempted to do this or did this was a Cop Rock, I believe, from what I heard, you know, that went full on, like, musical as a TV show. And I might be wrong. I'm sure, you know, there's other shows that came out that had musical elements, but. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I feel like the blueprint for it in my mind would have been Fame.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah. And that was before. That was. I think that was before then. Cop Rock. You got. You got a YouTube cop rock. It's. It's fascinating.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's like, is this a show that made it to air?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It made it to air. I think it was cbs. Yeah. And it's cops singing about, like, with criminals.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's like, how many seasons did this show have?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, very. I. I think it barely made it past the season just because.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't. I don't know.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's actually fascinating. And it was actually really good. It was just jarring for. I think the. It's like, why are these cops singing?

[Jessica Capshaw]

But it makes sense that high schoolers are singing.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. And. And it's a Glee Club.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's a Glee Club. But it's also just the most perfect. Like, there's very. I mean, clearly they're successful, but these New ways of imagining things. And these showrunners that come up with these perfect environments for so much story. Right. Like you come up with a Glee club and you pack it full of all these characters with backstories that put them as such unlikely friends, as such unlikely, like, combinations. But they're all bound by this. I'm in a high school experience, which is everyone is untethered. And then I think that the thing that I just thought was so genius was you're taking all this incredibly familiar and beloved music, so it's not like you, you know, I mean, how much.

[Camilla Luddington]

Money did they spend on getting those songs?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I mean, a lot.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I just did not understand. Sometimes I would like, how do we, how are we getting these? So, I mean, it's a power of like, you know, one thing I want to say do. It was written. The first season was written by three people. Like, it was just Ryan, Brad and Ian. They were the right, they were the writers room. Like, they were churning these out and, and which allowed like, you know, the, the humor to be what it was, the storylines would be what they were because, you know, they, they, it was between the three of them. And, you know, it is, I guess, you know, in UK they have, you know, one short, one writer basically writing most of the show. So it felt kind of that energy kind of going back and forth. But on top of it, the songs having was relevant to the storyline and, and then these, not just the original, like, they were popular songs.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

And I, I think it was the full force of like, you know, the 20th century and, and really coming in and saying, hey, we're going to double down and make sure you guys get what is needed as far as the songs go. So that, that was, that was really neat to be around that. And, and also songs that I've never heard in my life that were popular. I, I, it was a learning experience for me too. Like, I wasn't a Broadway kid, so, like, learning a lot of these Broadway songs through that show was, was fascinating. And while having Kristin Chenoweth in front of us singing it.

[Camilla Luddington]

We had her on the show. We had her on the show.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

She's amazing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's the best foreign.

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Now that I've dipped back into my Glee love, I just needed this is something I wondered. I don't understand how you all had enough hours in the day to do what you needed to do. Because normally when we're on a show, we get a scene and when we rehearse and the rehearsal takes usually not upwards of 15, 20 minutes to rehearse, and then we put down the marks and then we're go get finished getting ready and we come back and we shoot the scene. But you all have sometimes incredibly complicated dance numbers. You're lip syncing to playback. Like you're also acting in a scene. Like, how did those days go? Were they just never ending? Did you rehearse separately? Did you?

[Camilla Luddington]

I do want to know this. I heard rumors at the time were that you guys were working weekends. I remember hearing that. Like the Glee class work weekends.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I will say. And you know, I haven't been on every show. Like no one, no one has. But I would say from other people also saying who have worked on many, many shows during that time is this was unprecedented. Like it was. There's no other show that did this. Why you. If you were, you know, shooting these long sequences, when you're talking about the dance sequences, they would take six, seven hours just to shoot one song. Sometimes. Sometimes a whole day. And then you might fill in one scene. And then if you have dou of days, my gosh, like that, that was just nuts. But then you'd also have to dip into rehearsals and sometimes rehearsals. Just imagine trying to schedule the whole cast to get on this rehearsal. And you might only have two hours or an hour. And a lot of times you might have an hour or two before you shoot. So, you know, when you think you come in at, you know, 6am to put makeup on, think about coming at like 5am to learn the dance that you have to perform that same day sometimes, because that was the only way that the puzzle pieces would work together. And it took like, a lot of honestly talented crew to be able to say, this is the only way this is going to work, and let's all like, try and make this happen. Meanwhile, you know, a lot of the cat. I didn't have to do this as much because I didn't sing as much on the. On the show. But like, the other cast members that did had to go and do pre records and then come back and shoot. Like, it was just a lot going on.

[Camilla Luddington]

Where you guys were filming on your set, were you able to record songs there or did you have to go to a different location?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

No, they'd have to go. Sometimes a Jim Henson, sometimes it would. It would bounce around. So you'd have to go somewhere else. Because we shot in Paramount, you know, only so much can be done there. Yeah. You know, and we'd have. We'd have a tin shed, which was a lot. It was like one of those smaller rehearsal spaces and, and, you know, as the. As the numbers got bigger, we had to get a bigger space. That allowed us. That was. That took over half stage. I think we took over like four stages for the show, which is similar to kind of Grays. Gray's does that, you know, and. And so that. That looked very familiar to me. But the fact that Paramount, they just took a big chunk of. Of it was. I. I look at that and it was like a boot camp. It was just so. It was so neat. It was chaotic, but also neat to look back because it prepared me and I'm talking about. And I think for a lot of us to just like, everything else becomes a little easier just because. I don't think so.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, well, guess what? I was a viewer and I appreciated every single second of it. I loved it, loved it, loved it.

[Camilla Luddington]

I want to go back to your audition, though, really quick. So you did your audition and then what happened?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

The real, the real skinny here is that they needed to dance. They needed two dancers to like, they needed to cast two dancers because a lot of the actors, they. They didn't come from dance background. You know, they didn't have a dance background. They were incredible performers. Incredible sing. So the focus wasn't on dancing. And, you know, a lot of times when they're, I would say, even forced to dance, to put these numbers together on a. On such a short period of time, usually just imagine if you like, say, hey, you need to learn this dance. You're gonna perform it tomorrow like in these full on numbers and not just one, but like three, you know, and we're not talking about heavy choirs, but even just like walking here, moving here and these things while remembering your lines, while remember the song. It's a lot to take in. I was really hired along with another cast member as, as just someone who can, they can either cut away to or like be in the front so they, they can also follow along and play a sort of a side character. So that's what I was kind of told as far as like one of the. Zack, Zach Woodley, our choreographer. And then it just kind of took its own shape when I, when I booked it, I, I didn't know how long I was going to be there. I, I thought I booked one episode and then, you know, I, I knew Heather Morris and I knew Kevin McHale and Diana Agron from just, you know, being around town and, and then we just, you start to form this relationship and everyone just starts to really feed off each other's energy. And it was so cool because I was like, we all knew what we were to this group and that was neat and we accepted each other for that, but also moved in that way. And I, I just, I always remember that, that being such a beautiful energy and, and you know, for me I was. It's a singing show, but then like Ryan Murphy saying, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a song in there and you're gonna sing it and it's about you not being able to sing. And I was like, okay, I, I could do that.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh my God.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

And then going to pre record, going through that process and then like going through vocal training, learning and it was a very magical experience. Yeah. And then you just. Because you're just a kid again, you know, you're playing high school at 20 something again and you get to relive that. Yeah, you get to relive that. And. But doing it in a way where it's on this grand stage and you know, and even off, off the show, going, being able to do these tours.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know you guys toured in your hiatus.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, we toured on our hiatus. We. So you know when you say it was like back to back, but it's kind of crunched up into like this experience that you probably never again. You know, we just, we just, we just won't. You know, we were, we sold out O2 in. In. I mean. Oh yeah, the O2 in London. London, yeah. Three. We had three sold out shows and we like broke a record for the most foot Traffic and the O2. And that was the three days that Michael Jackson was supposed to perform before he passed away. So it's like all these little things that we get to kind of be a part of that, you know, I, I look back and it's just like, I can't believe we. We got to do that.

[Camilla Luddington]

You have so many amazing guest stars on the show. Do you have a favorite one?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Wow, there's so many. I mean, like, Christian Chenoweth really stood out because it was one of those people that, that you knew about. And I wasn't like, I didn't know everything about her. But once you met her, you're like, I want to consume everything that she's been a part of. And. And Kristen channel as well as was really, really wonderful. And you know, r was really, was really awesome just because, you know, I grew up in the TRL days and then just Ricky Martin being in front of it and then getting to dance with him. Oh, my God. And I mean, there's just so many. I can't even like, you know, even Gwyneth Paltrow coming in and sitting there and honestly just having conversations. You know what, Steve, you know, what was the. He wasn't a guest star, but there was this moment we were all sitting around and, you know, I think it was the third or third season. And it's one of those days where it was. It was one of those big group numbers. And then comes this guy with sunglasses sits down when I was like, who is this random dude? And he's just sitting there like, hey, how you doing, guys? And we're like, oh, hey. You know, we didn't. No one recognized them.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

And then we started talking and then he's like, hey, yeah, really, really awesome that you guys, you know, use the song, blah, blah. We're like, what is this guy talking about? And we're trying to all figure it out. And it was him. It was Steve Perry. Like, I know because you did don't.

[Camilla Luddington]

Stop believing like the first season, which is.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Which is, you know, when you think of the show, you think of that song and that was the song that kind of really got captured. People's like, yeah, love for the show. And, and so it's like these, you know, it was a very cultural significant show, but seeing people from all walks of life come in and not just one genre of music really be able to. To rub shoulders. It was just so neat experience. Yeah, it was a very neat experience.

[Camilla Luddington]

Harry I was. I was waiting tables at the time when you were doing this. And I remember very distinctively having the soundtrack, because the soundtrack came out and you're like. You know, I was like, I pushed the windows out your car. You know, I was like, singing all of it, you know, And I listened to it every single day on my way to work. And then I just became obsessed because then you guys did Rocky Horror. And that was so. Like, there were so many times that I was like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So many.

[Camilla Luddington]

I like their version better than the real song.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You know what's funny? I was gonna say I had those that you. I mean, they must have come out like CDs or would go live or whatever.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, the CDs and some digital downloads. They're starting to come here.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I remember I was finally starting to make it in the world. And I had a. I had a. All house. Like, you could press a button. There was like, a wall thing where you would press different, like, functions for music to come out the speakers. And I remember being able to blast the Glee soundtrack. And I remember I would always do. When I was, like, cleaning up after my son, who was just teeny tiny. I'd be cleaning up the toy, like, the. Like the playroom, and I'd be, like, singing and dancing in my own life. This is super fun.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's. It's really neat.

[Camilla Luddington]

No, it's incredible. I wanna. We did get a lot of questions because. I think I can say this because some of your cast members ended up writing, you know, kind of tell all books, basically. And so it's no secret that there was a clash of personalities on your set. Was. Did it make it difficult sometimes to film, or do you feel like it kind of came par for the course because you guys were also young and you were in each other's faces 24 hours a day? Like, you know.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, it's. I think it's par for the course. I think it. You have. You have incredibly talented people come together, which is usually the case for when, you know, you try and make a show or something that you hope. You hope people like. And I think one of the. One of the draws of the show beyond the music was you identified with certain characters. You know, they. They came from. You know, there's a hardship. There was, you know, some turmoil, but also, like, some cattiness, some. All these humor, the cultural background and. And. And being kind of very honest with it, too, which, you know, I think the show really did. And that's. Like, you just said, it's. It's bound to happen when you put people together. It's just, there's no, no different from family and, and I would think really good friends being around each other and, but, but the difference is that it's on display and people are, are, are trying to manipulate certain stories to be able to, I guess, service their, their own agenda. And that's unfortunate to see when, you know, I saw a lot of my friends go through that and not have any. Not, not being able to resolve that on their own, but having that kind of trying to be resolved from other people. And it's, I think it's very difficult, especially on an international. It wasn't just, it was an internationally. Like, I, I look at a lot of like pop stars and you know, even actors, but really the pop stars that, that, that it's just, it's just difficult, man. It's just unreliable scrutiny. Lead a somewhat like normal life, which is not normal at all. Normal in the sense of like just being at like a, a balance first, like emotionally, mentally and, and physically. It's, it's very demanding while still trying to perform. You know, like I, I always, this is one thing I, I, I learned from this experience. You, Anybody with given a chance that can focus on one thing they can be excellent at is I think, very easy. But if you have to juggle while trying to be a son, be a father, be a, a friend, be, you know, a daughter or whatever, all those things, if you try and be even decent at all of them, that's actually very, very hard. And that's a lot harder while trying to be excellent at this thing. So, you know, I think that that says a lot about like a lot of performers when they say I'm gonna pour my whole soul into be amazing at it, a lot of things are going to give way, right? You're not going to be able to focus on your relationships with people. And that's what we usually see in life.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's, there's no such thing as balance. You can't balance everything. You can't be equal parts great at being a mother or a father and a son and a performer and a friend. Like on any given day you might be really good at one of them, but there's gonna be other ones that you had to kind of like leave by themselves for a little bit. So I think that, yeah, I mean, when you're that successful and you know, because this is how our business is built, it's like when you've got a shot, you take your shot. Like, when you have success, you keep going. You don't, you know, it's always why it's always so shocking when you find, you know, people do leave something that's super successful. You're like, how could they do that? It's usually not done. So there's a reason why you keep going and you have weekend rehearsals and you just, you know, you just keep going.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, it's gonna sound so cliche, but love is like, literally the only thing that like, can, can resolve a lot of, a lot of these things and, and not just from us as performers, which is a big part of, but like, the people who are, who are taking that in, the audiences too. It's like, you know, we, we watch TV to comfort us or, or disturb us if we're too comfortable. You know, that's kind of like, that's really, I think that's what art is. Right? It's really like, if you're too comfortable, you need to watch something.

[Camilla Luddington]

For Glee in particular, there has been a lot of tragedy surrounding that cast. Right. Are you able to go back and watch the episodes and feel joy while watching it, or is it something that you sort of, of can't do anymore?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I had, you know, I, I, I just dealt with the recent death as well, and a family member, and I, my thought process in that is now you, you mourn them, you grieve. And I think also a part of the grieving process is to celebrate them as well. And I think, because I don't, you know, and not to say that that that sadness is gonna go away, because I don't think it really should, I think it, it should stay because you do care.

[Camilla Luddington]

Grief goes away.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, it needs to stay. But it's a matter of how you kind of do the back and forth, the dance with, with, with, with the joy that you, the memories and that you did have. So, you know, I, I, I'm able to watch and celebrate, like, I look at like, Nyakori and, and, and Mark and, and, and look at the beautiful work that they put in and the humor that they brought to, to so many of, of, of what the show really is, you know, and then you can, you can look at what could have been. And unfortunately, like, you know, the past is the way it is, and you can't really do much to change that outside of right now and to celebrate how many lives that they affected, how many people that got some joy from, from their, their performances and, and songs that Will live on forever. And when you say, like, some songs, I always, you know, whether it's better or not better than the original, I. I think what happens, it's more of what emotional attachment you had to that which makes it better. Right. Like, you might have heard a song, you're like, cool. And then you saw an episode or how they sing, and you're just like, oh, my God, I love this version way more. Because it. It really.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Something in your heart then said, like, well, I don't even. I can't even listen to the original anymore. Or. Or it goes back to say, like, oh, man, I didn't know this much about the original. So it makes you go back and backtrack and. And I think that's. That's. That's the cool part of this show. It's not about, we did it better. It's more about, wow, look at. Look at how good this song was. And look. And that's just been, like, what music was. When you think of Frank Sinatra, this dude was singing just, you know, covers after cover, but he made it his own, and he did it. And it's something that you. You think it's a Frank Sinatra song? You're like, no, no, that was like.

[Camilla Luddington]

30 years before him, for sure. No, I mean, you guys did an amazing job, for sure. Absolutely. You're right. I became attached to songs, and they meant more to me because of the characters involved in them. Now that's part of this love story or part of this anguish that's happening in the story, and. And now it means so much more.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I loved it. I was. It was appointment TV for me. I'd watch it on the night.

[Camilla Luddington]

Well, the whole world loved it also, you guys. I mean, to. To your. To all of your defenses, you know, with any drama or anything that went out on set, you guys are shot out of a cannon into fame. It was like, it's not just a TV show that, you know, won awards and did great. It was like a pop culture phenomenon, and that doesn't happen a lot. And I can't imagine that experience. Let's call it what it is. Owning a cute bra and panty set that fits just right and can be worn all day makes it easier for you to feel sexy and confident.

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

You joined Grey's Anatomy and you happened to be in an Oscar winning movie at the same time. So we need to talk about a little. I've never heard of the Oscars. Apparently they're great and they mean something.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And you got to work with key.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Isn't he the best?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

He is. When you talk about someone you want to work with like that he. He is definitely like the face of it. And you look on like if you're on like a dictionary and it's like, who? Like the word of just. I would say honestly perfect in the sense of like, this man is just a giant heart. He's a hard worker. He is so. He's so empathetic towards, like, just like what everyone else is doing. He's so caring and obviously just brilliant performer.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And. And so hard won. Right. Because. So I bet him when he was. Was teeny tiny. He was. He and I, I guess he was a little bit older, but he was playing short round in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where my mother was playing Willie Scott. So she. So he and I were like, oh.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

My God, this makes sense now. Wow. Amazing. Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

I'm like, remember how Steven Spielberg's Jessica's dad? That whole thing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That whole thing. So that's how we met. And we were the kids on set and really like his hero and his role model on the set was Harrison Ford or Indiana Jones. And then my hero or my role model was my own mother. He had an actual job. I was just along for the ride. But we would memorize all the adults lines. So like, I would memorize my mom's lines and he would memorize Jess, that's really cute.

[Camilla Luddington]

I never knew that.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

That is incredible.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And we would. Would do like, and. And then I would like. I remember learning her whole, like, song and dance number in. And like, it would be like, I do it in all the languages. So I'd be like. And I'd be like coming down the thing in my mind and then my mind.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know, I know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. He had his whole family there and he was, I mean, a kid. We were both kids. And then, you know, you know, life goes on. And it was such a long time ago. I mean, I. I always had such, you know, affection. And then there was. Obviously, I'd see my Go. And all the other stuff. But, you know, not like in daily life, just. But just like one of those people where no matter how much time, whatever passed, we would have shared something so unique. And like you just said, Harry, there's the top note for him is this unbelievable openness and kindness and his face just like. And also, like, no self consciousness around that. Right. Like, some people kind of feel like. Like, well, I shouldn't be so open or I shouldn't be so, you know, I shouldn't reveal that I have this vulnerable aspect of me. And he's like, no, he's wearing it all. Like, remember when, during the Oscars, he would just take pictures with everyone? He did, like, selfies with everyone.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay. Did you know when you were making the movie? Like, this is. This is amazing. And this is probably going to go the distance. We see gold.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah. Not making the movie. I knew. I knew I was a fan of the Daniels in the music video days, and I. I got. I got to work with him on Nora from Queens Aquafina show because they directed an episode. And I. I was just. I was fanboying because I, you know, I come from a dance background in the industry, so like, any director that was doing, like, anything interesting with dance, I was just all. All on board. So being able to work with them. And then, you know, came this. That's why I always think, like, you know, I never foresaw, like, hey, I want to work in a movie in the day with the Daniels, other than just me fanboying, I get a call to work with them on to play, you know, one of the raccoons, kind of a human, I guess, robot. I don't know what you want to call it now, but, like, playing Chad in this and then having, like, the movement that they were a fan of mine, and it. Just being able to work on it, that alone was just enough for me, you know, and then. And then on top of it, to know that Michelle was working on it. And then. Then on top of it, he was working on. And then I just worked with Stephanie on North from Queen. So it's just like this kind of like this. These pieces coming together. I was like, oh, my God, this is. This is unheard of. Like, whatever. How. What other movie would be able to work on something like this where I have a raccoon on my head? Michelle's on top of. On top of my shoulders, and I'm on top of her shoulders like no other place. So that alone would have been so neat. And I remember during lunch when, you know, that was the first time I met Jamie Lee Curtis and she was in her kind of gray hair outfit. And I remember we all sat down quietly because the Daniels are like. Our editor worked on one sequence we want to show everyone. This was in the middle of. Of shooting the movie out in Simi Valley. And then they show keys Fanny pack fight sequence. And literally I was like, I did not expect this. I never seen anything like this. And I was like, how are you guys releasing this? Please tell me it's in this movie theaters. They're like, yes. I'm like, that's when I knew. I was like, this thing I didn't know was gonna win Oscars do any of that, but I knew it was gonna be very successful. And then when all those other kind of accolades came, that was, you know, the cherry on top for sure.

[Camilla Luddington]

We were on. On the set of Gray's Nanny. People don't know this, but we decorated our little holding room all Oscar style for Harry. That was so sweet and it was really cute. Although we were just. Everyone was so excited and we felt like you were ours at that point because you're. We'd stolen you and you're on Gray's Anatomy. And so we kind of felt part of it in our own way too. And we were just so excited for you guys.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Said that. Said that. That whole week was just.

[Camilla Luddington]

I can't imagine one.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

One that. No, I'm saying, like, even the grace, it's. It's one of the love. Loveliest sets I've ever been on. Honest, to be honest with you. It's just it. It really says a lot about, you know, one, it takes time to get. Get to the place that it needs to be 21 years to see this. But. But what the more fascinating thing. It's not even just that how long it takes to. To really figure out the pieces of what it makes. What it is to make a set feel the environment when you have guest stars and like, oh my God, is this like, normal? I was like, yeah, this is. This is what the set is. And. But also, you know, ran a lot by women and knowing that there's this like. Like care that's being done with. With each other people's needs beyond, like creative just. Just, you know, servicing each other in a way that I think the industry should take note on. So. So what I saw that and when, you know, you guys decorated, I think that that was just such a beautiful. It really warmed my heart because, you know, one though I feel like the movie had made a impact on people outside of, like, me being part of it. But then like, oh, you guys do care about people's other, you know, wins as well outside of the show. And, and that was just gorgeous. So I'm, I, I, I, I love that. That was just like such a, it made everything that we keep that was already great even better.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, I wish I'd been there for that.

[Camilla Luddington]

It was real cute.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's real cute.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. And I know that you worked with, of course John on Crazy Rich Asians and so have you text him? Because of course Wicked is heading to the Oscars as it should. Have you had any?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, my gosh. He, he's just been on this whirlwind. Like, you know, I've known john since like 2007. I worked on Step up too.

[Camilla Luddington]

He just. Step up too. I didn't know that.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Isn't that crazy? You look at his whole life, it's just all, it's, it's all over the place in a great way because it just shows his range as a director. But yeah, step up to his first movie and, and you know, he is a master at being able to, to tie emotions with, with not just song, but like with movement and dance. And he's kind of one of those, like, just directors that not only are they very talented, but just such a good person as well. And, you know, and, and, and you know, he really cares about the people around him, really cares about, you know, making sure that they're able to perform their best while also have, creating an environment where it feels very collaborative. So I'm just over the moon for him, for Wicked and what, what it has in store. Because it's crazy when you make the movie, it comes out and you're like, you think it. That's it. And you know, there's this whole other piece of it which I live with.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Wicked 247 in my house. I have two daughters that are, I mean, they, they will fight well. They will, they will, they would commit murder over who gets to be Alphabet versus Linda.

[Camilla Luddington]

Who's the popular witch in your household right now? Because Hayden wants to be Elphaba.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no Alphabet for sure. But it goes back and forth is what I'm saying. So, like, because there's two of them and because they are acting out on the stuff that you got, they can't have two Alfies. You gotta have an Alfie.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, you gotta, you got, you gotta change. You gotta change.

[Camilla Luddington]

Lucas, my son, he gets the reject of the day. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's for be alpha. He's forced to.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Now they're doing that tik tok. That's like Alphaba glenda Glenda. Alphaba Glenda.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What's the one? It's like the, the sit.

[Camilla Luddington]

Here's the witch. I'm a witch.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm a witch and I'm a witch. Yes. Like, I had to do that last night, by the way. And they thought that they. She thought that Josie thought she had me really well trained and she did not. I could not memorize it as.

[Camilla Luddington]

No, I can't remember that either at all.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I don't know how these kids be memorizing. So like, I just think it takes me. Men, they're just like, they hear it once and it's, it's.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's a nigger.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh. And the dances and.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, well, I mean, you're talking. Are you kidding?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know.

[Camilla Luddington]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I forgot myself. Okay, so let me just. Because I'm, because I'm curious because you came after I was there. So I then I, you know, came last year and I am always curious what people's paths are to the show. So how did you find your way to Grey's Anatomy? Did they come find you?

[Camilla Luddington]

We bribed him.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's, you know, the show has come up a couple times. You know. You know, I watched the show and on and off just, you know, as one does when the show has been going on for so long. And one thing that always kept me, Jenna Uskowitz, who played Tina Cohen Chang on Glee, she was like a massive fan. So I would, she would talk about it on set and I kind of would know what was happening through that. And then, you know, after a while I, I, as I got into other shows and you know, we're auditioning and then there would be a lot of auditions that would come up for, For Grays and I would never get them. It was for. Usually for patients and never for doctors. And. And then came. Came around the time where there it was right before I got an offer to. As. As a patient. It was a storyline, but it just wasn't the right time. And my scheduling was. Was all off and I couldn't take that on. And then shortly after I, I got a call from them that they wanted me to play Blue Benson Kwan. I just, I remember reading this, the character description and kind of where the story was going and along with just the beautiful work that has been done, but I just wasn't prepared for the like being on set now the, the care that's still there for, like, trying to tell a good story and caring for the characters and, and, and after all these years, I, I don't know why. Maybe because a little part of me has been a little jaded about, like, what, what we've kind of dealt with in the industry as you've seen other things and where, you know, as time goes by, usually with anything, you know, less care gets put into it. And I never. And I keep seeing that here. When I got on that, I was so pleasantly surprised. But I saw that in what was written with the character, what was written within the story, and that really gravitated me. And also being part of this legacy was just something that I wanted to really be a part of.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's a responsibility.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's a, It's a real responsibility.

[Camilla Luddington]

I feel that when you get on the show too, you're like, yeah, you really do. Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I find that, that the viewers are so personally invested, attached.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

They put so much care into the watching of it that when you feel that there's just an extra, an extra sweetness to doing the job right or something, I don't know, it makes it personal. Right. It's just. I mean, it should be just business, but there's something that it does kind of make you take it personally.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It really, it really does. I think you. I didn't realize that until, you know, I, I knew the responsibility, but I didn't realize how. How incredibly impactful it is beyond just people, you know, enjoying television or the other characters that they can fall in love with. It was more of. These are the next generation of surgeons and, and, and people who want to get into, into the medical field and, and, and, and have. And also get a glimpse of just like, you know, well, the fun parts of it, but also the really, really hard and difficult parts and also the, the, the science behind it as well, which I think the story does. I mean, the, the show does really, really well. And I'm learning, just like I was learning these songs on. On Glia. I'm learning a lot of, you know, medical right now. No. Well, medical breakthroughs that, that, that are happening or that have happened and just being able to be put on the, The.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Have you had one of those humdinger, like you're in the table read and you turn the page and you see your name and then a really long speech yet?

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah, You've gotten some law.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, I've gotten some. There's some pressure on that. There's some pressure.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

The hardest One was when there was a crossover on Station 19. I got these sides and I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be on station 19. And. And. And it was just me. And I had to. It was in the ER and the sides were fine. It was like a couple medical terms. I was like, I could deal with it. And then I went to bed really early because I had an early call and they changed it and it just. Just added a whole monologue of. I would say, like, I would say at least like 20 medical terms that are probably some of the hardest one. So I woke up to this, like. Like, oh, this is. This can't be right. So I called and they're like, oh, no, this is right. And I was like, oh, my God. It really service well because the character was really fumbling through and trying to figure out how to. So I really use that as well. But you still can't get it wrong. So it was the most nerve wracking day experience I had on the show, and it wasn't even on the show yet. So that. That. I'm sure y'all have dealt with that way more.

[Camilla Luddington]

We've been there. No, it is. No, it's still terrifying. It doesn't matter how long you've been on that show. It's still so scary.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, and I. And. And again, you know that, like, the. There's a real possibility for greatness because you look at the monologue and you're like, this is good. Okay. All right. Yeah, no, I'm gonna be good. I'm gonna be good.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's gonna be great.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And then you're, like, working it, and then you hope that it's good. And then sometimes it'll surprise you, sometimes it won't. When I came back last year, Meg gave me. She gave me.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, yeah, you had a lot.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, she gave me a biggie.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And she was so funny because she said to the director, she said, okay, I know it's a lot of words, but. And I know you don't know Jessica because you haven't worked with her yet, but she talks really fast, so she's. That really long speech.

[Camilla Luddington]

She's not gonna be that long.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. And then I remember doing it, and we actually did it in one take.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, I still got it.

[Camilla Luddington]

You're like the caption, arizona's back, baby.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Still ride that bike.

[Camilla Luddington]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

They drop a new seasonal collection so there's always new styles to check out.

[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camilla Luddington]

We had some questions about Blue you that I want to ask you. So I want to know what you would like his specialty to be.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh my goodness, no.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's a big question and it changes honestly season to season.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

But in this moment, neurologists I think about the brain is just so fascinating and I think for Blue, possibility of, of, you know, things coming up or even in the past that I've just really, I think I, I would like him to head towards there. Yeah, I don't know what they have in store, but I just think there, there's something really fascinating there because I think there's so little that still we know. And I just think it'd be cool to be part of that, to discover new things that kind of can help have a better understanding of maybe even himself, but also beyond that to be able to help people because I think we're starting to find new things that I'm, I'm fascinated myself, especially when they're talking about gut to brain and the things that are affecting it. Is it like are, is that really controlling us or something else controlling the brain, you know, and, and, you know, so I don't know. I think there could be some really interesting.

[Camilla Luddington]

We got to get into the love story of it a little bit. Of course you are entangled. Blue is entangled in a, in a, in a kind of, let's say messy situation. Yeah, very messy this situation this season. But we did get fans wondering if you think that he still is harboring feelings for Jules. Do you still or do you think that that's been put to bed?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I don't know. I think they show that anything's possible.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, of course.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Just if you have, if you have a little flame, that flame can turn into something much better.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I, I, I don't know. I, I, I think this storyline is really fascinating to me because when you talk about memories and, and how much those mean when you talk about forgetting, especially if you've gone through a breakup and you're like just Forget about that. But those memories are a part of. And so if you lose that, like, what are you like, what are you like? Does that define you? Or should you. Should you. Should you just, like, allow that to. I don't know. There's a lot of, like, conversations about when you're. When you're growing up and, you know, whether you have these good memories, then if the bad memories don't exist and do those good memories exist as well? Right. Like, it's just. This is back and forth. So. And. And when you talk about love and, and having someone that, that is trying to get these memories back or wanting to. To get these memories back and then you. I don't know, there's just a lot of complications that can happen. I think I. I'm really excited to see where that story goes because I think they're. I feel like the writers, as they always are, are doing this.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I can. I think I can tease this. I'm not going to say any specifics, but there's. There's. There's some fantastic moments coming up for you. And that love story in the season that hasn't aired yet, there's one in particular I can think about, but it get. It's juicy and it, it does, and it gets messier. So you guys have to tune in and absolutely see that before.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Juicy and messy.

[Camilla Luddington]

And we love juicy and messy. Before we let you go, though, you have a children's book, and I want. I read it. I snatched it from you at the table read and I read it. And so I want you to promote it. And it's so good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I didn't know this. I'm so excited about this.

[Camilla Luddington]

And so I want to leave talking about this before you go.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, thank you. No, my. My wife and I, Shelby Rwara, she. We wrote a children's book together, and it was really inspired by a daughter in a lot of ways. Just kind of really. There wasn't a children's book especially that showed up. This one in particular shows a Filipino boy who, you know, is afraid to dance because he got made fun of and, you know, his grandma was guardian. Support system really encourages him to, like, you know, get his confidence up and. And sleep on it. And when he does sleep on it, he has a dream and goes on to the vast space and. And encounters a Martian that kind of helps him gain his confidence and, yeah, teaches them these dance moves, but really based on the characteristics of each planet from Mars to Jupiter and Saturn and really, really the swirling storms and things that, that you can do with movement and allows him to get off his mind on being. Not being self conscious about his movement, but more of like I'm just doing a swirling storm and then, and so there's, there's a way of like showing that confidence in different ways. And I don't know if there's video, but here it is called Marty. There's the dance. And you can get it on gluebooks.com and yeah, we're just incredibly proud of it because it's.

[Camilla Luddington]

You should be. It's really good book.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's just really, it's a really fun book. And, and, and it's just, and the kids can, or, or even adults who read it that can. There's a eight count of a dance that you can learn as well.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm gonna try this. Maybe this will work for me.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, maybe this is, this is your moment. Yeah, maybe this is what you need.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

We'll all do it together. And I recorded a song that's going to come out and our daughter recorded a song for it. So.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh my God.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It's really, it's really fun. It's just a fun, like, family project that, you know, that has, that has been really neat to see other people kind of do the dance and, and kind of enjoy it. Enjoy the book as well.

[Camilla Luddington]

I'm gonna do a shout out to, like, Disney because Disney needs to turn this into a cartoon. This needs to be bigger than just this. So let's pitch it out. Let's put it out into the university for 2025. We have songs, we have dances the kids can learn. Like, I see this for you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yay. I'm in for it, right?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it. Oh my gosh. I'm so happy that you came on.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

No, thank you for having me. This is so cool. I love this conversation, you know, you too. I, I really, I really admire what you all y'all are doing and what you have done. So this is, it's really cool to sit down and, and chop it up as we say.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it. Well, you know, it's such. It sounds like I'm imagining this in my mind because you've talked about it, but I feel like when you're in, it sounds like you and your wife have such a strong partnership and, and it comes from, it comes from all the things that we hear about, you know, on repeat. But there's a real enjoyment right, of each other. And so clearly that gives birth to wanting more projects. So, like, you don't have enough projects together. You're writing a book together, and I feel that. Well, in a different way, but the same way about Camila, where it's like, I just enjoy her partnership and we have so much fun.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah. It makes it not work.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, not. It's not working.

[Camilla Luddington]

And then we get to sit down with people like you and. Exactly.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's what I was going to say, is that I'm so grateful to, you know, and Camilla said, oh, my gosh, like, I love him so much. He's so great. And I was like, I didn't get to spend that much time with him, but I know that if you love him, I'm gonna love him. And so to have you on and be able to talk about the things, you know, in the way that we like to and also just always, you know, we don't. We don't talk about Grays all the time. You know, that's not what the entire podcast is about. So when we have these moments that bring us back to how we met.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah, it's fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's so much fun. And that shared crossover and just having a similar approach to how. Kind of what you said earlier, it's like, how does it happen? It happens. It's the. It's the. It's the hard work plus preparation plus good luck. Right. So we all get to be here together because of those things, but, man, it's so much more enjoyable to be with people who feel the same.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Oh, man. Well said. Well said. This is. This is what I. One last thing I'll say is that we don't have enough of. And I think that's why podcasts are so popular, is that we're. We as a society. Like, we don't have these long conversations anymore with people. Like, we. We. We don't. And then when you do, you. We don't have enough of it. You know, you kind of yearned. Like, I want more. I want to sit there and talk to my friends or people that I kind of haven't never met and want to get to know a little better. And the fact that, you know, y'all get to do this on a weekly basis is. Is so cool. And. And I'm honored to be on one hour of it. However long this was, I know I.

[Camilla Luddington]

Was looking at the time, I'm like, no, I won't more.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You've joined the crew, and it's everlasting, ever loving crew.

[Camilla Luddington]

But also, I feel like once you join Grey's Anatomy, I do feel like it doesn't matter if you're on what season? Like, there's this weird. You're part of this legacy and there's this, like, weird family feeling. So even though you do haven't worked, you know, did you work at all together one day?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

It wasn't much. Yeah. I got to see you work.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yes, yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You know what I remember you from is the hair and makeup trailer, which is way more important. Important.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Yeah, that's. That's. That's where the chit chat talks.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, that's where it all goes down.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

That's where the podcast should be. You should have it in the makeup.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, we should do that one day.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yes.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

While getting your makeup done.

[Camilla Luddington]

That's good. Harry, will you come back on?

[Harry Shum Jr.]

I would love to. I would love.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

Well, as the season goes on and some explosive things happen in our universe on Grey's Anatomy, we'll have Harry on and maybe we'll do a little post interview for an episode and. Because it's all about to shake out on a show. Yeah, it is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

All right, let me get my Harry.

[Camilla Luddington]

We'll let you go on with your day. Please say, give your beautiful family so many kisses from us and thank you so much for joining us.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Thank you.

[Camilla Luddington]

First of many on call.

[Harry Shum Jr.]

Bye.

[Jessica Capshaw]

He's so lovely.

[Camilla Luddington]

He's the best.

[Jessica Capshaw]

God. I mean, by the way, he's done a lot.

[Camilla Luddington]

I mean, I was looking at our time. I'm like, once again, this could be a two hour podcast because I'm not even getting through all the things.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know because we had to start with why you so fine?

[Camilla Luddington]

Wow. That was an important question.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Why are you so fine, Harry?

[Camilla Luddington]

Listen, Harry comes into the trailer. I come in and I'm like, I literally look like a slug. Right? Like, I'm like, do some serious magic to transform me. Harry comes in looking like that. He doesn't need any. I don't even know if he goes through the works. I mean, what do you even put on that face?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, he was lovely. I love his whole mindset. I feel like I would. I felt like I would enjoy. I would enjoy cast chair in between setups with him.

[Camilla Luddington]

I think, because some people join the cast and you're just like, ah, we can't ever lose you. You gotta stick with us.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

And yeah, he's. He's honestly incredible, as you can tell.

[Jessica Capshaw]

From Glee to Everything Everywhere all at once to Grey's Anatomy. I think he's also doing pretty well for himself, so I'm really happy for him.

[Camilla Luddington]

Well, also, there's crazy rich Asians.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

I mean there's so many things we didn't get to. But he's done in the hour, so this will. This is. We're gonna have.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm happy for him. He's doing great.

[Camilla Luddington]

In the meantime, we've got to call it. Ms. Capshaw.

[Jessica Capshaw]

The end of the episode.

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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