Call It with Jenna Johnson

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Call It What It Is" Podcast Episode Featuring Jenna Johnson

Podcast Information:

• Title: Call It What It Is
• Host/Authors: Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington (iHeartPodcasts)
• Episode: Featuring Jenna Johnson
• Release Date: May 26, 2025
• Description: Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington, known for their roles on Grey's Anatomy, explore their real-life friendship while navigating life's highs and lows. In this episode, they open their friendship circle to include guest Jenna Johnson, delving into topics ranging from relationships on competitive shows to personal growth and parenting.

---

1. Welcome and Introduction [02:31 - 04:46]

Jessica and Camille warmly welcome Jenna Johnson to the podcast, expressing their excitement about having a contestant from Dancing with the Stars on the show. Camille shares her enthusiasm as a fan and highlights the effort both hosts put into securing Jenna's appearance.

• Camille Luddington [03:00]:

  "We have Jenna Johnson on today, and you know that I'm a huge Dancing with the Stars fan, so I've been really looking forward to this day."

• Jenna Johnson [04:56]:

  "We're on the same page about the excitement!"

2. Jenna's Experience on Dancing with the Stars [04:56 - 07:28]

Jenna discusses the exhilaration of winning the competition and the subsequent emotional challenges when the season concludes. She reflects on the intense bonds formed with dance partners and the difficulty of transitioning back to everyday life after such a high-stress, collaborative environment.

• Jenna Johnson [06:08]:

  "I'm so grateful I was able to, first of all, meet Joey, go through that wild ride together, have an incredible win in that moment."

• Jessica Capshaw [06:20]:

  "Where is the trophy?"

3. The Highs and Lows of Competition [07:28 - 10:50]

Jenna elaborates on the emotional rollercoaster of competing on the show—moving from the euphoria of winning to the depression that follows the competition's end. She emphasizes the transient but profound connections formed during the three-month stint and the constant cycle of high expectations and subsequent letdowns each season.

• Jenna Johnson [07:28]:

  "It's a wild experience because you have all of that high, and then inevitably, you're like, in this deep depression because it's all over."

• Jenna Johnson [09:03]:

  "It's a wild boot camp experience that bonds you."

4. Partnership Dynamics and Intimacy [10:50 - 14:20]

The conversation delves into the unique intimate dynamics between dance partners on the show. Jenna explains how holding hands and close physical interactions are essential for trust and performance, even though they are not romantic relationships. This professional intimacy often leads to strong, platonic friendships.

• Jenna Johnson [13:04]:

  "We're holding hands because we are a team. It is such an intimate visual."

• Jenna Johnson [13:39]:

  "We are dragging our partner around the floor. We're like, hey, come over here."

5. Balancing Personal Life and Competition [14:20 - 17:46]

Jenna discusses how she manages her personal life, particularly her role as a mother, while competing on the show. She highlights the support from her husband, Val, who understands the demands of the competition and helps her stay grounded and focused.

• Jenna Johnson [16:38]:

  "Don't leave with any regrets of looking back and being like, that was such a short amount of time that I could have fully committed to."

• Jenna Johnson [18:03]:

  "Val is really great about seeing what he's doing with his partner and that they are safe and sure of their relationships."

6. Selecting Dance Partners and Competitive Edge [17:46 - 21:42]

Jenna explains the challenges of being paired with both novice and professional dancers on the show. She shares her experiences of having to continually prove herself, especially when paired with contestants who already have dance experience, emphasizing that professionalism and adaptability are key to success.

• Jenna Johnson [19:06]:

  "I have not had a football player yet. I keep throwing his name out because I think he would be so fun."

• Jenna Johnson [20:03]:

  "If you are a female contestant, I think it's hard. You're putting yourself in a very uncomfortable situation."

7. Navigating Camaraderie and On-Set Behaviors [22:37 - 24:28]

Camille raises a question about the potentially annoying behaviors of other couples on the show, wondering if they sometimes try to steal the spotlight. Jenna responds by emphasizing the importance of maintaining a positive environment and focusing on the collective goal of performing well, regardless of others' antics.

• Camille Luddington [22:43]:

  "Some people are annoying up there when they're standing there waiting and trying to grab the moment."

• Jenna Johnson [23:29]:

  "As long as all of us are having a good time... do whatever you got to do."

8. Pre-Performance Rituals and Mental Preparation [37:01 - 40:29]

Jenna shares her pre-performance rituals, including a unique superstition about putting on her right shoe before her left and the importance of physical warm-ups like planks with her partner. She also discusses the mental strategies she employs, such as positive affirmations and prayer, to maintain focus and a positive mindset before performances.

• Jenna Johnson [37:17]:

  "I always have to put my right ballroom shoe on before my left."

• Jenna Johnson [38:01]:

  "I say a prayer and then positive affirmations. I read what nerves can be positive or negative, just whatever you tell yourself."

9. Inspirational Advice and Personal Growth [46:14 - 49:49]

In a heartfelt exchange, Jenna offers advice to her younger self, emphasizing the importance of self-trust and recognizing one's unique worth. She addresses societal pressures, particularly those faced by women, advocating for self-celebration and resilience against comparison.

• Jenna Johnson [46:39]:

  "I would just tell her to trust herself and to not forget why she's special."

• Jenna Johnson [47:13]:

  "Comparison is the thief of joy. It just is."

10. Closing Remarks and Future Plans [49:40 - End]

The episode concludes with warm sentiments and plans for future interactions. Jenna expresses her eagerness to return to the show and continue her journey, while Jessica and Camille commend her dedication and passion.

• Jenna Johnson [43:35]:

  "I would love to be a performer."

• Camille Luddington [50:52]:

  "She said football star. Well, she's a football star, but could have been anyone."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jenna Johnson [04:56]:

  "We're here to navigate the highs and lows of life together."

• Jenna Johnson [09:03]:

  "It's an insane boot camp experience that bonds you."

• Jenna Johnson [16:38]:

  "Don't leave with any regrets of looking back and being like, that was such a short amount of time that I could have fully committed to."

• Camille Luddington [38:58]:

  "You’re going to program it as excitement or will you categorize it as fear? Excitement gets you on your toes."

• Jenna Johnson [46:39]:

  "I would just tell her to trust herself and to not forget why she's special."

---

Conclusion

In this engaging episode of "Call It What It Is," Jenna Johnson provides an in-depth look into the life of a competitive dancer on Dancing with the Stars. Through candid discussions about partnership dynamics, personal challenges, and mental preparation, the episode offers valuable insights into balancing high-stakes competition with personal life. Jessica and Camille facilitate a warm and thoughtful conversation, making it both informative and inspiring for listeners who may be navigating similar challenges in their own lives.

Transcript

[Jenna Johnson]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

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[Jessica Capshaw]

It what it is with Jessica Capshaw.

[Camille Luddington]

And Camille Ludington an iHeartRadio podcast. Well, hello, hello, hello, hello, Call it crew.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is. Jessica Captcha. How are you feeling today?

[Camille Luddington]

Well, it's raining in New York City and so I'm feeling a bit damp.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Other than that.

[Camille Luddington]

Other than that. We have Jenna Johnson on today, and you know that I'm a huge Dancing with the Stars fan, so I've been really looking forward to this day. We've been trying to get her on since the. The. The season was actually still active and our schedules have just not aligned, but now they have, and I could not be more excited to have this gorgeous, talented guest.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Be honest. Are you wearing. Because we can't see you wearing jazz shoes. Just in case.

[Camille Luddington]

Just so we're clear, I look down at my feet preemptively when you said, are you?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. Cuz, you know, cuz maybe you throwing them on in case you need to show her some moves.

[Camille Luddington]

We all know that I'm not showing anyone any.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Just a quick audition. Just.

[Camille Luddington]

Can you imagine if I just decided to lay it down?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Like, she would log off. She would. The zoom would end or.

[Camille Luddington]

Just one more thing. Should I. Just one more. Just want to show you one more thing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

One more move.

[Camille Luddington]

What about this one more thing, Ms. Johnson?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, my God. Okay, just. Just do me a favor and just take a deep breath before she comes in and just like, you know, be a little bit cool. Okay?

[Camille Luddington]

You want me to play this cool? When have I ever played anything cool?

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, but this time I'm. It's a special request. And yes, bring her in.

[Camille Luddington]

All right, fine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Hi.

[Camille Luddington]

We've been trying to get you on for so long because I am a tried and true Dancing with the Stars fan.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's die hard, Jenna. She's die hard.

[Camille Luddington]

I am. And you're the second. You're the. You're our second guest. We had Julianne first. Oh, no, I adore her. And then. And we were trying to get you on when the show was still actually, you know, happening. Um, so thank you for being here with us.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We're so excited to be here.

[Jenna Johnson]

Thanks for having me.

[Camille Luddington]

How do you feel? How. How has the wind sunk in? How do you. Do you. Are you feeling still like a winner? Are you riding just as high? What have you done with all that winning this?

[Jessica Capshaw]

And where is the trophy?

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

You guys, do you want to see something?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, we do.

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. You're.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, it's not. But no.

[Jenna Johnson]

So.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, my God, this is. Look at all those mirror What?

[Jenna Johnson]

And this is a rocket that was in my freestyle. So it's just like a little corner of.

[Camille Luddington]

Am I counting five there?

[Jessica Capshaw]

No more. Oh, it's five.

[Jenna Johnson]

Three are vowels, two are mine.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, we need to add some more to yours.

[Jenna Johnson]

I would love that.

[Camille Luddington]

And also, look how gorgeous you are, guys. I'm such a nerd because I just love the show so much, and like the rest of America, when I walk. When you watch the show, you're like, oh, I'm sure they're. It's like, what. What everyone gets. Like, they can't possibly be that cute in real life. And then you see them in real life and you're like, yeah, they are.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Thank you.

[Camille Luddington]

You're that good.

[Jenna Johnson]

Thank you.

[Camille Luddington]

You went from being just you to wow.

[Jenna Johnson]

Wow. I appreciate that. Welcome to my home. Welcome to MTV Cribs. No, it. It's been amazing. Obviously, I just. You. You ride this cloud of just happiness, exhaustion, relief. But I just felt like I had such an incredible partner, so I was just so grateful. But then it's so wild because you have all of that high, and then inevitably, you're like, in this deep depression because it's all over. You've just created this insane bond with somebody for three months. You spend every day together. You're like each other's teammate. You go through very high stress situations together, and then it's just done. And you're like, that experience is over. That. That purpose is over. It's just. It's a wild. And it happens every year. So you would think that we would know how to, like, deal with it or expect it, but every year is so hard because the person that you meet or your partner is somebody new. And so, yeah, it's. It's wild. I just. Again, but I'm trying to stay with the positives of. I'm just so grateful I was able to, first of all, meet Joey, go through that wild ride together, have incredible win in that moment. It was just a dream come true. So I'm. I'm so beyond grateful. Obviously, you know, there's, like, rumblings of the new season coming up and all of this stuff, and so that anxiety sets in of, like, oh, my goodness, I want to be competitive. I want to have another incredible season. But you know what? I'm grateful at this time.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So I have a question before it gets announced to us and the world, who is on Dancing with the Stars, right? Like, who's gonna be on the next season? When do you guys find out? Because often for us on, like, Grey's Anatomy. Something will be announced and we won't have even heard about it. It'll be like, this person's joining the cast. I'm like, they are.

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I haven't read that. So how much do you know and how long before it gets announced?

[Jenna Johnson]

We don't know any of that stuff.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't know. You're finding out with the world.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes. So they really tried to keep it very hush hush. And I totally get that. They don't want leaks. But then from like, when we meet our partners to when the whole cast is announced, we probably know for like maybe a week before you guys know, because we always do a reveal on Good Morning America. They really keep everything so secretive. They want our reactions to be genuine. They don't want things getting announced or revealed beforehand. They want that Good Morning America revealed to be like, here it is.

[Camille Luddington]

Do you feel like. Because, I mean, again, I'm sort of a. I guess I'm a Dancing with the Stars late bloomer. Like, I didn't. I didn't come to the show early seasons. I knew it and I. Every time I would see it, I would really be. I would be just so. I honestly, I would be very impressed by just where you start with people and where those people end. Like the.

[Jessica Capshaw]

In terms of. There's hope for us, Jess.

[Jenna Johnson]

There's hope.

[Camille Luddington]

There's none for me. There's. There might be for you. There's none for me. Let's. I just want to call it what it is.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. Okay, let's do that.

[Camille Luddington]

These feet will not be on that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't think you could do a little foxtrot?

[Camille Luddington]

In no world. I could be foxy and trot.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I think Jenna could teach you to foxtrot.

[Jenna Johnson]

You understand what my job description is, y' all. I know somebody who doesn't know how to dance. How to dance.

[Camille Luddington]

I know, I know, I know. And really, you don't know me, but I'm the. I'm the farthest thing from negative. So I promise you I'm not just like faux. There's no faux humility here. There's real experience of feeling like I can see a dance step shown to me. I can. I can see. Someone can draw it out. They can video it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It just doesn't translate into your body.

[Camille Luddington]

It. That part of my brain, it doesn't stick.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, that's why they're there.

[Camille Luddington]

We digress.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes, I was sort of a. You know, I would watch it from afar, but then it was my daughters that really were like, they became mega fans. And then I sat down long enough between doing all the things that you do with when you have four kids, and I sat down long enough to watch a little bit more. And then there was a moment. It was a tipping point. And I was in. And then I was in for the dancing as much as I was the storytelling because there's. It's so human. And so you. You all do such an incredible job. And those editors who. Are there awards for that? Do those editors get awards? Because the way that you. That they slice and dice and give you all that. What must be hours of footage. Hours and hours, and they condense it.

[Jenna Johnson]

Isn't some of this live when we perform? It's all live.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. So, like, they're. They're editing on the job, which is.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah, but they're also editing all the rehearsals. And then someone's got an injury. And I'm telling you, I know editing. They're definitely, like, making a out of it. Like, the injury could be, like, me, it's fine. But like, they're gonna make it seem like an emergency room visit is imminent.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I like, that's what makes me in.

[Jenna Johnson]

I think that's why Dancing with the Stars is so special, is because you really get these two worlds of where it feels sport, where the. They are athletes showing up, but then it's also mixed with artistry. So I think that's why there's, like, so much risk of there could be injuries or going into this lift. How is that gonna go? You know, so there's all the. Always this, like, high risk, but then you paint it with this artistry and the intimacy and the sensuality of it all. And partners, all of that. And it just. It's so unique. Like, there is nothing else like that.

[Camille Luddington]

Let's talk about the sensuality for just a second, shall we?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I knew you were going to jump on it, Jess.

[Jenna Johnson]

Let's get into it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She said the magic word for Jess's next question. Okay, go on, Jess.

[Camille Luddington]

You all really make it seem intimate and very sensual. And you are. And you are married to a dancer. And so he's creating his chemistry with his partner. You're creating your chemistry with your partner. Y' all are definitely selling it. Like, I'm. I'm like, how are they even? Do they have. Do they have the same bedrooms? Are they sleeping in the same house? Like, how do you go home after your husband just watched you do that dance? Right. It's unbelievable.

[Jenna Johnson]

I. You know, this is one of my favorite questions because everybody always has it. And it's. I understand. I think the best way for me to explain this is if you were to watch a movie, would you want to watch a scene? And do you want to cry or do you want to feel real, raw emotion? And the answer for me is always yes. So they're doing their job. If they came, delivered the lines, there was no emotion behind it. There wasn't any commitment to the character. You wouldn't believe it. And that's why people walk away with Oscar nominations and Oscar trophies.

[Camille Luddington]

Okay, yeah, but hold on. I'm interrupting. I'm only interrupting because, again, I watch the show. It's not just the dancing that. That makes me feel like you guys are all in. It's when you're listening to your feedback. It's when I think that's the part where, as a partner, I'd be like, did you need to hold her hand, like, the whole time that you were listening to how you guys did today?

[Jenna Johnson]

So funny, because those things for us don't stir because of course not. Since I was 8 years old, I've been partnered with a boy, and he's been my teammate. And we've been on the same goal of we're going to go out on the dance floor, we're going to smash and sell these routines, and we're partners. So when we walk around the dance floor or walk around, we're holding hands because we are a team. So. And we forget as dancers. Like, that is such an intimate visual.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's part of it. Yes.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

But for us, we're, like, dragging our partner around the floor. We're like, hey, come over here.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And it must be easier to be married to someone who gets it.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Because they're not in the audience. I think they're probably not in the audience. Right.

[Camille Luddington]

But Joey's fiance showed up week after week after week, and I remember being like, he's not a professional.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know, but. But I'm imagining. And you can speak to this, Jenna, that this experience, because it's only three months is like, in your experience as a dancer in overdrive. And that intimacy that doesn't have to be romantic as teammatey is just, like, insane. It's an insane boot camp experience that bonds you.

[Jenna Johnson]

You're in a bubble. You are.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

And it is a weird social experiment, and you have no time to really, like, lightly get into things because like you said, there are only three months of this. But somebody also gets eliminated week after week after week. So honestly, like, day one, week one, I am breaking the ice and all of the barriers of, like, this is going to be super weird and really intense. We're going to be in each other's space, but as soon as we break that, like, that wall, that's when we're going to create magic of, like, there's going to be trust, there's going to be friendship, there's going to be bond. Like, we're probably not going to like each other all of the time because I'm going to be yelling at you, I'm going to be in your face. I'm going to like. I bet so much from you. So, yeah, there's a vulnerability. There is, I guess you could say an intimacy in that experience because it is a very tight knit relationship. But that's all about just having chemistry with your partner. And I think all of us as pros understand that that is a necessity to do well on the show. Not just because of how it looks, but because of that trust with your partner. You know?

[Camille Luddington]

No, I get, I get that when.

[Jenna Johnson]

People vibe and when they don't, it translates whether you're in the skybox, whether you're getting wars in the rehearsal packages. So again, it is a very. It is hard, I think, for people's significant others that aren't in the industry or aren't dancers to like, see Joel. But for me, I always try to make them part of it, to make them feel like nothing's hidden, if that makes sense.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, yes.

[Jenna Johnson]

I would always be like, with Joey, like, go show Kelsey our videos. Like, we'll do rehearsal. Go show her what we learned today. Show her this new trick that we did so it doesn't feel like something.

[Camille Luddington]

That'S very smart of you as a partner.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I have a question that's a little spicy.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't have to name names.

[Jenna Johnson]

Okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

At all. Because you can't. But have you ever had a partner and the significant other. There are some, some vibes that like, you're feeling like. I'm not sure they're understanding that this intimacy is just for the show.

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, I have had situations where it's been sad watching as a partner, my partner's significant other put extra stress on them.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

You know, that causes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Because that gets in your head.

[Jenna Johnson]

I'm sure that's like a lot of the times of. Because yeah, it, it helps them not be so committed and they're torn and they want to be respectful to, like, you know, all sides. For me, I always try to be like, listen, this is three months. And then you will never have this ever again. You'll never have this opportunity. So. So for me, I'm always just like, don't leave with any regrets of, like, looking back and being like, that was such a short amount of time that I could have, like, fully committed to. And again, I think you have to respect your spouse or your significant other first. But you need to also explain to them, like, I will never have this opportunity again. So if I don't commit in my Argentine Tango or if I don't commit in my. It might affect this experience, getting eliminated.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But also, it's just a dance.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yeah. And it's just.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I mean, like, it's not. It is just a dance. It's like us going to work and performing, like, a love scene. At the end of the day, we come home. Like, that's our job for, like, that day.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes. And I think it is really, really helpful that my husband is on the show as well.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

Because I think it helps even see what he's doing with his partner and that are, like, so safe and sure of our relationships that we want each other to thrive. So I think that's also helpful. And, like, Val comes into my rehearsal a ton and helps my partner out and feel good. Gives him pointers, looks helpful. He's the best.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Jessica, do you feel like Val could help you with your.

[Camille Luddington]

No, no. No one can help me.

[Jenna Johnson]

Anyone can help you. It would be Valentine if.

[Jessica Capshaw]

When. When you guys get people announced, Right. So they announce somebody tomorrow, right?

[Jenna Johnson]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you or is it not okay? Are you ever texting producers and be, like, mine? Or is that just, like, not something you can do? Can you never be, like, here's why I really want this person?

[Jenna Johnson]

No, that would be really fun. I'm sure we could do it, but I don't think it would have any.

[Camille Luddington]

Do you have a dream partner? Is there someone who you've been, like, watching something, listening to something, or thinking, like, oh, my God, it would be so amazing to be partners with that person.

[Jenna Johnson]

I am shocked every year with who I get, and I always just, like, end up having the best time. So I really trust, like, our casting director. So far, I would say I have not had a football player.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, that's fun.

[Jenna Johnson]

So. And I think that they're just so incredible on the show. They understand, like, that work ethic and the time and effort that goes into being great. So I think they always really do well on the show. I have, so I haven't had one of those yet. Jason Kelsey. I just keep throwing his name out because I Think be so fun.

[Camille Luddington]

I saw him from across the room at Up Fronts the other day.

[Jenna Johnson]

I just think he liked the vibe where he doesn't take things too.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah, he seems very relaxed.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes. Where I think he would be down to, like, rip off his shirt.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah. I think.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, my God. Jenna, you and Jason, Kelsey. Yes. This needs to happen.

[Jenna Johnson]

I would just be down for, like, a really fun person who's just down for the experience.

[Camille Luddington]

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

I'm dancing. It's not that serious at the end of the day.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes.

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh. So I think he would have.

[Camille Luddington]

Love it.

[Jenna Johnson]

Such great energy.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Do you side eye? Because I do. Guys have professional dancers come and be contestants on the show. I'm like, why? And if you're in competition with those people, is it frustrating when you're like, I got a football player and I'm so excited. But, like, why do you have this incredible professional dancer that I'm now competing against? I don't understand.

[Camille Luddington]

How's that allowed?

[Jenna Johnson]

I've had both. I've had both. I've had somebody with no experience, and I've won with them last season with Joey, and then I've had somebody like Jojo Siwa. Who isn't.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

You know, people felt some type of way about that, but it's a completely different battle with somebody like Joey. You're invested in the journey and his, like, evolve. Becoming a dancer. With Jojo, we had to really bring it every week of, like, do the best routine possible and make magic and have moments and all of that stuff. So there's a lot of pressure when you have a dancer or somebody who already has dance experience. I wouldn't say that that's the easier route. Sometimes it's harder because you're having to, like, overly prove that they deserve to be there. You know, I've had both. Each journey is very, very different.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But, like, are you really get. If you're a great dancer and you're technically fantastic, you're not getting marked down in the same way that, like, Joey would. Right. And that's what. At the end of the day, sort of that ends up being a huge part of the competition.

[Jenna Johnson]

But that's where the expectations really get to you. And it. It kind of feels unfair. Like, well, I've. For them, they've never done ballroom before. Yes, they may have, like, danced, but ballroom and partnering is very different than just, like, jazzing by yourself. So in a sense, they are learning something new. So they should have that same sort of grace when it comes to being A beginner in ballroom dance.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't know because. I don't know if I agree with that. Just because I feel like you can make. When dancers just carry themselves in a certain way, you put Jessica against, like, Nicole from the Pussycat Dolls. Like, they're. Whether Ball is the first time she's ever done. She's going to make it look beautiful. There are certain ways you carry yourself. There's certain, like, flexibility that you have.

[Jenna Johnson]

It might be a leg up when it comes to the dancing, but people also fall in love with the story.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's true. That's true.

[Camille Luddington]

You know, I have a question from a fan perspective.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes.

[Camille Luddington]

When you guys are all up there rooting, you know, cheering each other on, I really do completely buy the camaraderie and that everybody really is rooting for everybody else. But I'm just gonna call it what it is. Some people are annoying up there when they're standing there waiting and they're, like, trying to get in front of each other and, like, they're. What do you mean? They're, like, looking at the camera and they're, like, trying to, like, grab that moment.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you saying that another couple are trying to sort of steal the moment from somebody else or, like, grab the attention?

[Camille Luddington]

They're. Yes, they're definitely trying to grab the attention because they're all on, like, the balcony. That's. I've never been to the ballroom, so I'm imagining it's a balcony.

[Jenna Johnson]

The skybox. Yes.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes. There we go. Okay, so the question is, are people as annoying as they look sometimes?

[Jenna Johnson]

I'm going to say that I am not that person, so.

[Camille Luddington]

I know you're not. That's why I'm asking you where.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's wondering if you're annoyed by other people who.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes. I would like to know if you find them annoying.

[Jenna Johnson]

Personalities are fun, so if people.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, that's a great answer.

[Jenna Johnson]

Go for it.

[Camille Luddington]

I know, but your face kind of said it looked annoying. It was a little.

[Jenna Johnson]

I'm. As long as all of us are having a good time and, you know, we're staying on the air, do whatever you got to do.

[Camille Luddington]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You know what, as it adds to the spice, Jess, because there's people like you watching being like, they're so annoying and it's getting you to talk about it, right? Like, yeah, maybe you have a love hate relationship with the skybox where they're.

[Jenna Johnson]

Being seen and they're getting more votes.

[Camille Luddington]

See, that's another reason why I shouldn't go on the show, because I would be terrible at that. I would literally do no attention stealing of promotion.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you kidding? You're a Leo.

[Jenna Johnson]

Leo.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She would be up there hamming away God. I don't think I would, though.

[Jenna Johnson]

Honestly though, it's also sometimes on show days you're so exhausted from the week that sometimes I'm just like too tired and I'm like, if I'm praying in my heart that we get through our dance or if I've already danced, I'm like, thank goodness. And I'm just exhausted. So maybe that's why I'm not eager to get extra screen time.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah, well, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go ahead and say I think you're a class act and that's why you don't do it.

[Jenna Johnson]

Thank you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't need to do it. You got those mirror balls.

[Camille Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Luddington]

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[Camille Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Who would you like for Val as a partner?

[Jenna Johnson]

I love when Val is inspired and excited so I just want him to have somebody that that gives him good energy. I think for women we are a lot more intimidated when it comes to this space. Guys tend to be like, yeah, whatever, I'll put my arm out. You know, they don't take it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

If you are a female contestant, I think it's hard. It's like you're putting yourself in a very uncomfortable situation. So always those people that have come in and just been like open and excited and fall in love with dance, he is so inspired by, I would say somebody like Ginger Z. They were partners and I have just never seen him be so in love with dance.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

Showing up with her, she was just invested in in the show, in doing an amazing job and it was just so fun to see their relationship grow and she's like near and dear to our family now.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, I love that.

[Jenna Johnson]

She was incredible. Somebody like Tamar Braxton was really fun for him. He was partnered with Normani Corday and they dance superstars together.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, that's hard to compete against.

[Jenna Johnson]

You know what's crazy, though, for Normani, that's when she was still with Fifth Harmony and they had just announced they were going on their Asian leg of their tour. So he was flying back and forth from Asia the whole season with her. Sometimes they would have, like two days to rehearse. One time they rehearsed in a hotel lobby, like insane.

[Camille Luddington]

What?

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes. But she was just incredible. And then somebody like Sochi, they just had such an epic relationship. He loved the show. She loved the experience. They had such a great bond. So, yeah, anytime that he just like.

[Camille Luddington]

Vibes with somebody and yeah, it really showed. This, that season was incredible and it really showed. And he does have a smile. You both do. But he has a smile that could just light up a room.

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, yeah.

[Camille Luddington]

You know, when you see his happiness, it's like, I would love to see.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You with Jason, Kelsey and him with Kylie Kelsey, and so you're married couple with married couple. That would be fun.

[Camille Luddington]

That would be interesting.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, that could be cute.

[Jenna Johnson]

So down.

[Camille Luddington]

All right, abc, we just threw that out there for you. Yeah. And your hosts are also so incredible. Yeah, Love them. Love them. So we, we did an episode last week about. Well, it was technically about mom guilt.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We're trying to find a new name for Jenna because we're.

[Camille Luddington]

I know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Calling it mom guilt.

[Jenna Johnson]

You know what it is what it is. Like that. That is what we feel.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, we're trying to.

[Camille Luddington]

Well, we were talking about whether or not that is what we feel or that's what people tell us to feel. Right. Like we should feel guilty. Whereas, like, what is the value exchange of being a working person? And like, how do you explain it to your kids? Because you're not going to. You're not going to do something, you know, for your own benefit solely. Right. It might include your own benefit, but it's not. There's like, guilty seems like something that you would, you know, feel after you did something that was just for yourself. And obviously working is for your whole family. But when you are in like a three month stint, that sounds as intense as the one you're describing. Do you. Do you favor that Rome comes to work sometimes? Do you favor that he stays where he is and keeps his. His. Like, I'm someone who keeps. I keep My kids schedule constant and then I'm the variable that comes in and out. Yeah, I mean obviously there's times when they come to me, but how do you work that?

[Jenna Johnson]

Yeah, it is really difficult and hard and being a new mom and a new working mom and also his schedules are changing and things. So I think this last season was, was interesting to navigate. I don't think the word guilt necessarily has to have a negative connotation to it because I think, I think that means that you care. If you are feeling these things, that means that you do care and your heart is torn in two different places. And that's definitely what I did feel this, this last season. Days that he would come to set were so fun and would give me like this reset and be like, oh my goodness. Okay, I'm stressed about these two eights in my foxtrot, but I have this bubbly little boy just looking at me for, for everything. And that, that gave me so much purpose. But at the end of the day too, I know that I'm also in a very stressed environment and I don't want to put that on him. So I would like do maybe every two weeks he would come to set on a show day, you know, or if I was knew that I was going to be having a more like light hearted day, I'd have him come. But he's just always a breath of fresh air. He always gives me that sense of like grounding and purpose. And even if I would have the longest, worst rehearsal, so stressed out, I'd come home and just nothing else mattered. And that's something that I've loved about being a mom. Where before I would take that stress from work and bring it home and just like fester on it and just sit on it and let it ruin the rest of my evening. But as a mom, you don't have time for that. Like you don't have opportunity. Just no, you need to do dinner, bedtime, bath time, bottle, clean the house, you know. So I've loved that. Even though it's chaotic and sometimes I feel like I don't have a second to like breathe myself. It really, it's really what I need. And he just, yeah, he is the best. I've loved being a mother. Obviously it has its days where I'm like, man, I, I missed out on this or I could have showed up so much better in that regard. I was just exhausted. But I love a challenge and I think you always have to like challenge yourself and evolve and it's okay if you have A rough day. Like, you'll show up better tomorrow. Um, but I think also Val is. Is really great about. He is just such an incredible dad. And so I think I'm constantly inspired by the way that he shows up for our son and for our relationship and our marriage. So I'm just constantly inspired by him, I think. And that also helps navigating parenthood.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, I love that so much. If you had. This is a trippy question, but if you had a time machine and Your son was 21 tomorrow and he wanted to be on the next season of Dancing with the Stars, who would you partner him with? And it can't be you.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, she comes up with such good questions.

[Jenna Johnson]

I would say Daniela. She is an absolute force to be reckoned with. She is just a powerhouse. And I think she is super creative. I know that she is a good teacher. And I think that sometimes the biggest battle on our show is being a good teacher. You can be an incredible dancer.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

But you need to know how to game plan when A, B, C doesn't work. You need to know how to come up with a new option. And you don't need to know how to dissect dance and teach it to somebody that has no idea what they're doing. And she is that. So I would. I would say Daniella.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, I love that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it.

[Camille Luddington]

Who would you partner me with if I ever did it?

[Jenna Johnson]

Val.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Val.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, there we go again.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you kidding me?

[Jenna Johnson]

He is the best teach, teacher, teammate, coach. He is amazing.

[Camille Luddington]

I'll never say never. Never say never.

[Jenna Johnson]

You never.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I mean, come on, we're ABC Family. Like, I. I would love that.

[Camille Luddington]

I'm gonna if I can. And this is, this is a hope if I can. With schedules and everything else. I am dying to get there for one of the live.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She wants to see Sacramento Alive taping.

[Camille Luddington]

I know I really wanted to and it didn't work out timing wise. Cause I had just been in LA and I couldn't turn it around and bring them back again this last time, this last season. But I. And I told Julianne, I'm like, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it there. I'm gonna be in that ballroom. I really am.

[Jenna Johnson]

It's a different. It's so, so magical seeing the sets of.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, it's gorgeous. And you all do an incredible job. Also on your socials, like, I love getting the peek behind the, you know, behind the curtain. Do you have any, like, pre show things that you do, like rich superstitions do you have like, any of that kind of stuff?

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes, I do. I. This is so weird, but I always have to put my right shoe, my right ballroom shoe on before my left. It's just like the thing that I. The show. And like, even when the dressers are doing a quick change with me, I'm like, no, it has to be the right shoe first. So that's something. That's just a weird one. But for me, I love to stay in my zone. So as much as I love to cheer on other people and like, watch, I know that it's not going to be good for my focus. So I kind of venture off with my partner and I want us to like, stay in the zone so we always do a warmup together. I'm really big about planks. I think that they're so good to do.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh my God, this is my worst nightmare.

[Camille Luddington]

My mother can do a five minute plank.

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[Jenna Johnson]

That's amazing. Well, yeah, I usually try to do like a two to three minute plank with my partner. So we'll do that. We'll go through the dance a little bit and then as soon as we're going like back backstage, say we're next up. I always take a second by myself to like calm my breathing. I say a prayer and then positive affirmations. I read this thing that nerves either can be negative or positive just in whatever you tell yourself. So instead of being like, I'm so scared. I'm so nervous that we're not going to do like, you know, putting it in that. I always am like, I am so excited. I have the excited. I'm so excited. I know that I'm prepared. I know that I've done all of that I can and I'm just going to go dance now. So I think like, the mindset that you have yourself in also helps.

[Camille Luddington]

I think that what you just said.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Is, is so powerful for so many people is really cool.

[Camille Luddington]

I feel exactly the same way. Your little guy is too little to do this with. But I have people that don't feel so little anymore. And they have started entering into worlds that can feel, like, scary. Like I have to do something, I have to be something that's maybe bigger or. Or I haven't developed the courage for yet. And I say exactly the same thing because it is, it feels so true. Is that that feeling? You really can choose how you program it. You're going to program as. Are you going to program it as excitement or will you categorize it as fear? And the fear kind of makes you go back on your heels and the excitement gets you on your toes and it's like, where are you more nimble? Where are you more ready for flexibility? Where are you more ready to receive? It's, it's in being excited, it's not in being scared. And I think that's incredible. Incredible nerves.

[Jenna Johnson]

I mean, we should all have them. That's great. That means again, that means that you care, but it's just really how you decipher. Like am I going to take this in the nervous route and doubt myself and question things and that's when you start making mistakes. I feel whenever I'm on the things where that always is what happens. So I always try to put be like, oh, I'm sorry. So excited, so scared. But very excited to go show up and go do what we've been practicing. Like, it's, it's awesome. So yeah, that's kind of my little ritual.

[Camille Luddington]

I love that.

[Jenna Johnson]

Then hope for the best.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Jenna Johnson]

Go out there.

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Camille Luddington]

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[Jessica Capshaw]

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[Scott Patterson]

Hey, it's Scott Patterson from the I am all in Again podcast with Scott Patterson. And I've got great news for my fellow Gilmore Girls fans. The show has a brand new home on Start tv, a national TV network celebrating strong smart women and in iconic dramas. You can watch Gilmore Girls every weekday at 5pm 4 Central and again at 11pm 10 Central. With new episodes airing each day. It's perfect whether you're discovering it for the first time or ready to fall back in love with Stars Hollow. Start TV is easy to find. Stream it, catch it on cable or satellite, or watch it free over the air. Head to starttv.com to see how to watch where you live.

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[Jessica Capshaw]

Would you like to be a judge one season instead of a dancer?

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, you know, for me, I still. I would love that. But I always have wanted to be a performer, so I'm going to try to drag out this dare. As long as that. As long as my body can.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Jenna Johnson]

And then. Then I can see myself as, like a judge. But for me, I just. I have so many goals and dreams that I would love to do still in this space. I would really love to do Broadway one day. So I feel like, well, like, you're.

[Camille Luddington]

You're an incredible actress too.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're the whole package. So, like, I can see that for you. Like, I would cast you in two seconds and all of the things.

[Jenna Johnson]

Thank you. But, yeah, I still just feel like such a performer that I don't feel that, like, authority of sitting. I feel like I would have a hard time sitting. Honestly, I would be like, oh, out there. I want to do this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, you'd have FOMO for the dance floor. Yes.

[Jenna Johnson]

But I love giving feedback again, that, like, teacher inside of me. Yeah, I love that. But for right now, I just. I would love to be a performer.

[Camille Luddington]

Well, we. We all love watching you perform.

[Jenna Johnson]

Thank you.

[Camille Luddington]

When do you start the new season?

[Jenna Johnson]

Well, the season starts September, usually. I technically haven't been picked up yet. None of us have. We usually don't find out if we're back on the season until. Until, like, end of August, September. So fingers crossed that happens with.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, that's the way. Yeah, yeah. With TV shows, you gotta wait for that pickup too, personally.

[Jenna Johnson]

But, yeah, that's when it starts is it will be back this fall. They just announced season 34. So exciting. So crazy. 34 seasons.

[Camille Luddington]

That's more than Grey's Anatomy.

[Jenna Johnson]

Well, this year is also special because they're celebrating 20 years on air.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Wow.

[Jenna Johnson]

20 year anniversary this year. So wild.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I see you adding your third mirror ball to that ledge.

[Jenna Johnson]

I love a little manifestation.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, I see it for you.

[Camille Luddington]

It's already done. That's the manifesting trick. It's already been done. It's already yours. You already have a third one.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So we're excited to watch you win next season.

[Camille Luddington]

Exactly. And I will be there. Camilla, will you come with me? Will you be my date?

[Jenna Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you kidding? Yes.

[Camille Luddington]

Me and the girls.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So we'll bring our daughters. Yeah, let's bring the girls.

[Camille Luddington]

Okay. We'll be in the.

[Jenna Johnson]

You guys should come on like a Disney night or something too. That's also.

[Camille Luddington]

Oh, don't say Disney. Don't say Disney twice to this one.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't understand. Jenna, you said the magic.

[Camille Luddington]

Neil Patrick Harris. I've never seen two people more excited to be at Disneyland. Oh, my God.

[Jenna Johnson]

I love it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it. Jenna, thank you so much for joining us. Will you come back on when the season starts and you're deep in it and we can pick your brain on how it's going?

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes, it'll be so. It'll be so fun to see who I'm partnered with and we can chat all the way.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes. Wait, I have one more question because I think you're very wise. I don't ask everybody this, but I think you have some real wisdom in there. Here's my question for you. What would you, if you could talk about time machine, go back in time, what would you tell your 17 year old self? What had you not learned yet that you. That you value so greatly?

[Jenna Johnson]

Now I think my worth and not having this, having this anxiety of having to be somebody else to be somewhere or to make it somewhere. And I actually, shortly after I was 17, joined the show and when I did, I was just constantly trying to be somebody else because I looked up to them. They were all pros. I was on troop. So yeah, I think that until I learned to really value all that I had to give, that's when I started to really make a difference and make an impact and that's when I really started to shine. So I think that if I were to go back to my 17 year old self, I would just tell her to trust herself and to not forget why she's Special?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. I love that you just said, like, not forget that she's special because I think that as women we do this thing where we sort of like, we. We can say that we're great, but, like, we. Then we sort of like, you know, want to underplay it.

[Jenna Johnson]

There's a lot of pressure that we have, I think, as women, obviously, and in the society right now, like, for me, comparison is the thief of joy. It just is.

[Camille Luddington]

Are you.

[Jenna Johnson]

In my head, I. I've always. That's been one of my favorite quotes. And I just. I really think it's so true. And when we live in a world where we're just constantly scrolling and seeing how gorgeous and how amazing and how, yeah, unique these other women are, instead of being like, tearing ourselves down because of it, we can celebrate that first of all, others accomplishments, others beauty. But we cannot forget, negate why we are so magnificent and special and beautiful and what we have to offer.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So, oh, my God, what a way to end.

[Jenna Johnson]

I love that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it so much.

[Camille Luddington]

I know. And I think that it's also. It's like, it's the acknowledging of the human feeling, like the neurobiological need to envy or covet or be jealous or think, like, I want that other thing. Like, that's normal. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not a bad person for that. While you're scrolling, it's then what you do with the thought, like, do you then make it a negative. Have it. Let it have a negative impact on yourself? Like, I'm not enough? Do you let it make a negative impact on someone else by tearing them down? Or do you just see the thought, see the judgment, see the whatever it is that monkey minds in your head and then go like, yeah, okay. Thank you for your service and like, no, thank you. I think that person's gorgeous, right? She works so hard or she has that natural shine. I don't know. But it's like, it's. It's really human to. To have all those feelings and. And I think that, you know, what you just said is true. It's what you do with them.

[Jenna Johnson]

I completely agree.

[Camille Luddington]

Thank you so much for coming on.

[Jessica Capshaw]

So much for coming and call it what it is.

[Jenna Johnson]

So nice to meet you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This will be the first of many, hopefully.

[Jenna Johnson]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, so come back and talk to us when the season starts and when you're on your journey to winning again.

[Camille Luddington]

Yes.

[Jenna Johnson]

I love it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We'll see you in the audience. We'll be front row screaming to go. All right, thank you so much.

[Camille Luddington]

I. I feel like I just want to be friends with her.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know. I need you guys to never meet, because I think you could be best friends, and that's not going to work for me. I'm not down with a third. No. But I will sit in the audience with you. You said Disney night, and I'm, like, already there in my Mickey Mouse ears. Are you kidding?

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah. Yeah, you make. You wear the. The ears. I'll wear the hands. We'll sit in the front row. I'm gonna be there. You're gonna be there, and it's gonna be magical and special. I can't wait until the. They announce the contestants. And we will be sitting front row for ABC's 34th season of Dancing with the Stars, and they will be celebrating their 20th year on air.

[Jessica Capshaw]

God, I hope it's Jason Kelsey. When she said that name, I was like, oh, my.

[Camille Luddington]

She said football star.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, she's a football star, but could have been anyone. But when she said Jason, Kelsey, I was like, beyond.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah. And I was. I tried to say, but I didn't get it out. I was at the. The ABC upfronts, and I actually saw Bruno in person and Alfonso, and I had to, like, not nerd out and go up to them. And then I saw Jason Kelsey from across the room because it was also espn. They were doing their up fronts, and he was there. There were so many athletes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

How tall is he?

[Camille Luddington]

I don't know, because he was. He was far across the room. I couldn't tell from that perspective.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You didn't make a Beeline? A Kelsey Beeline?

[Camille Luddington]

No. It was wonderful to be with her, and I'm super excited for the new. The new season.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. She's super talented. I. And I. I. I really did love her being like, I'm special because I think that as women, we've learned to, like, not say those adjectives about ourselves and describe ourselves that way. And I'm like, yes, you are. Yeah, you should be saying that about yourself.

[Camille Luddington]

I know the whole, like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And they're just the cutest family ever.

[Camille Luddington]

Yeah, they're real cute.

[Jessica Capshaw]

All right.

[Camille Luddington]

Okay, well, let's call it the end of the episode.