Call It with Kim Raver (Part 2)

Summary

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Call It What It Is – "Call It with Kim Raver (Part 2)"

Podcast: Call It What It Is
Hosts: Jessica Capshaw, Camilla Luddington (absent), Sarah Drew
Guest: Kim Raver
Airdate: October 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode continues an in-depth and refreshingly candid conversation with Kim Raver, best known for her role as Teddy Altman on Grey's Anatomy. Hosted by real-life BFFs Jessica Capshaw (Arizona Robbins) and Sarah Drew (April Kepner), the discussion centers on the evolution of Teddy’s character, the intricacies of portraying and directing pivotal storylines, experiences working with fellow actors, empowerment and growth behind the camera, and the realities of acting—including those close calls with major Hollywood roles.

Throughout, the trio shares emotional memories, backstage anecdotes, and thoughtful reflections on professional resilience, women supporting women, and personal milestones—making it a must-listen for both Grey's fans and anyone interested in the entertainment world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Handling Fan Questions and Season Finale Spoilers

• The episode opens with the hosts rapidly fielding fan questions for Kim, especially about the jaw-dropping Grey's season finale and the fate of key characters.
  • On Surviving the Finale:

    "I'm always worried." – Kim Raver [03:13]

  • The group praises the showrunner (Meg) for keeping both cast and audiences surprised and emotionally on edge after 22 seasons.

2. Teddy’s “I Choose Me” Moment

• The group unpacks Teddy’s powerful monologue and turning point—her decision to end her relationship with Owen and choose herself.
  • Kim on the Monologue:

    "For her in that moment, to say I choose me is a pivotal game changer moment, and I just love it. Also for women and for the fans out there, to see that you can...in a vulnerable moment and in a solid, clear moment to be able to say I choose me." – Kim Raver [04:26]

  • The significance for female viewers: Courage, personal boundaries, and the importance of trusting oneself—even when facing the unknown.

3. Chemistry and Collaboration with Sophia Bush

• Listeners ask about Kim’s relationship with Sophia Bush, both on and off set.
  • Both actors felt instant chemistry, making their on-screen partnership smooth (and raising the dramatic stakes in the ongoing love triangle with Owen).
  • Kim describes directing herself in love scenes with Sophia Bush, balancing professionalism with creative freedom and control:

    "I was completely in my body as Teddy. But I also was able to have this overhead director view, but then like drop back in. It was an incredible experience." – Kim Raver [10:47]

4. Directing Grey’s Anatomy: From Shadowing to Calling the Shots

• Kim shares her journey from actor to director, the mentorship she received (especially from Debbie Allen), and how directing changed her approach to acting.
  • On Learning from Debbie Allen:

    "To really be shadowing Debbie Allen is a true gift. It's a class. So that when I was given that opportunity, I felt really prepared." – Kim Raver [27:06]

  • The importance of advocating for oneself and the unique challenges faced by women seeking expanded roles in the industry:

    "I feel like me and my female friends, we are learning to ask...Being able to voice that we want to be bigger and expand and do more." – Kim Raver [29:46]

  • Kim describes fighting for a key scene as a director, with the crew rallying behind her to get the perfect shot:

    "The entire crew, like, lifted up these huge lights, and everyone is, like, running up the stairs...We got that shot and that shot, they used it, like, in all of, like, the publicity. And it just. It. It was, for me, something that was so important." – Kim Raver [21:45]

5. Behind the Scenes: Real Life Friendships and Set Dynamics

• Fans are curious about Kim’s real-life relationship with Kevin McKidd (Owen). Their off-screen rapport—complete with "I got you" moments during tough days—is built on years of collaboration and mutual support.

  • "The amount of, you know, 4:30am and my kid has the flu and hasn't slept through the night, and I'm...I don't know my dialogue. Like, I got you. Like, the amount of I got yous even. Not even spoken. I got you." – Kim Raver [24:45]

• The hosts recount hilarious moments of Kim auditioning for directing by shadowing Debbie Allen—Jessica lamenting how Kim became suddenly “unavailable” for off-set gossip:

  • "She was not open for me...it was literally like a toddler, you know, trying to get into the bathroom when you're in the bathroom." – Jessica Capshaw [38:48]

6. Empowering Women, Rejection, and Grit in the Industry

• The conversation shifts to how women can get in their own way by not asking for what they want, and the realities of hearing "no" in show business.

  • "If you hear a no, how are you going to turn that no into a yes if it's something that you really want? ...Our whole business. 99.9% of the time is rejection." – Kim Raver [31:56]

• Sarah and Jessica discuss the psychology of “nepo babies” and carving your unique path, irrespective of famous family or industry pressure.

7. Rapid Fire: Fun with Fan Questions

(from 45:22 onward)

• Did Kim have a say in the open marriage plotline?
  • Yes—both Kim and Kevin McKidd protected their characters’ emotional truth, pushing for mature, considered storytelling around the topic. [47:45]
• Music on Teddy’s Playlist:
  • Kim is presently inspired by Jessie Murph, a young country/rap/rock singer-songwriter. [48:32]
• Costume Details:
  • Subtle wardrobe choices reflect Teddy’s emotional state (though scrubs limit options!). Scrub caps and clogs are discussed at length, much to fans' delight. [50:32]
• What’s next for Teddy?
  • Kim is excited to see what happens in Teddy's "free fall" after she chooses herself: "What's she gonna do?" [53:17]
• When did Teddy know open marriage wouldn’t work?
  • Both Kim and Jessica agree it was the painful moment Teddy saw the emotional intimacy between Owen and Nora: “This was a terrible mistake. This is not saving." [54:13]
• Roles that got away:
  • Kim was close to roles in "Last of the Mohicans" and "Minority Report," providing candid insight into the heartbreaks and near-misses common to actors.
  • The group reflects on how even big stars (like Scarlett Johansson) rarely get their first choice parts—resilience is key. [60:10]

8. Women Supporting Women & Authentic Praise

• The trio gets heartfelt about the importance of women openly complimenting and supporting one another.

  • "You guys genuinely are so. It's like you find these beautiful, like, the sparkle in people, and you. You support that. And I just. It's really. It's really amazing." – Kim Raver [39:49]

  • Sarah underscores how saying positive things fosters connection and empowerment. [41:12]

9. Dream Crossover & Light-Hearted Close

• They joke about a possible "Grey’s Anatomy"/"911 Nashville" crossover and what it would be like to appear in both worlds. [61:27]
• Sarcastic banter and camaraderie run throughout, with ongoing references to shenanigans, Paris trips, and the unique, supportive dynamic among the show's women.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Making Brave Choices:

  "To be able, in a vulnerable moment and in a solid, clear moment, to be able to say 'I choose me.' ... It's not retaliation, it's not anger. It's such a simple thing of, I need to go get my together, and I need to put myself first to do that."
  – Kim Raver [05:22]

• On Directing Herself in a Love Scene:

  "She was like, what's happening? We were like mid kiss. And I was like, you know what? I just had a thought...But I wasn't watching myself. I was completely in my body as Teddy."
  – Kim Raver [10:55]

• On Rejection:

  "Our whole business. 99.9% of the time is rejection...How do we mental health protect ourselves?"
  – Kim Raver [31:56]

• On Open Marriages Storyline:

  "I just wanted to be sure Teddy had learned from her mistake...I felt really heard. The concerns that Kevin and I had, and I think that Teddy and Owen's relationship is a very evolved and mature relationship."
  – Kim Raver [45:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:00 – Finale spoilers & "who survives?"
• 04:26 – The power of Teddy’s “I choose me” scene
• 07:25 – Emotional responses to the monologue
• 09:09 – Chemistry with Sophia Bush, directing love scenes
• 10:47 – Directing oneself: inside and outside the scene
• 18:24 – Are you directing more episodes?
• 21:45 – Behind-the-scenes story: fighting for the perfect shot
• 24:45 – Real-life rapport with Kevin McKidd
• 27:06 – How Kim shadowed Debbie Allen to learn directing
• 29:46 – Women learning to ask for what they want
• 31:56 – Handling rejection, building resilience
• 38:48 – Jessica’s frustration when Kim was “shadowing”
• 45:22 – Rapid fire: Open marriage storyline, music, costume details
• 53:17 – What’s next for Teddy
• 54:13 – The moment Teddy knew the open marriage wasn’t working
• 55:31 – Audition stories and roles lost
• 60:10 – Reflection on never being the “first choice;” Scarlett Johansson anecdote
• 61:27 – Crossover and closing banter

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode mixes laughter, hard truths, genuine admiration, and relatable anecdotes about both the creative process and personal growth. It provides a window into the emotional labor behind long-running TV storytelling and the quiet strength behind women-led creative teams. Fans leave with new appreciation for the closeness of the Grey’s cast, the craft behind their work, and Kim Raver’s vulnerability, hard-won wisdom, and humor.

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Perfect For:

• Grey’s Anatomy fans
• Aspiring actors, directors, creatives
• Anyone seeking honestly about resilience, rejection, and female empowerment
• Listeners who love real-life friendship intertwined with showbiz

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Transcript

[Jessica Capshaw]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Kim Raver]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Chris Pine]

Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Josh Clark]

Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Pine]

People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the wild west of medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Sarah Drew]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper.

[Kim Raver]

AI Built for marketers.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna.

[Podcast Guest (Unidentified)]

When I was broken and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint. I was robbed. All these horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Call it what It Is with Jessica.

[Kim Raver]

Capshaw and Camille Luddington, an iHeartRadio PODC. Hello, hello, hello, hello, Call It Crew.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And welcome to another episode of Call it what It Is, part two of our special guest, Kim Raver. Okay, we have a ton of fan questions that we haven't even gotten to yet. Because we do it. We let the Call it crew know that you are coming.

[Kim Raver]

And.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And they have a lot.

[Sarah Drew]

They've got Questions? Yeah, they got questions. Rapid fire, baby.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, you're not gonna be able to answer this. And I know because I'm part of the show. I just wanna know who survives. Lol. But that's obviously a spoiler. It was a great finale. My jaw dropped. Were you worried, Kim, at the end?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, you're. I'm always.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm always worried.

[Kim Raver]

Right?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I talk about this whole time.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We can't talk about this. To be honest.

[Kim Raver]

We can't talk about it. I will say Meg does such an incredible job of. Whoa. That was. That was good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That was kind of sexy, though.

[Kim Raver]

I was way too deep. No, I was, like, a little turned on.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I was a little bit turned on.

[Kim Raver]

All of a sudden I was like, use that voice of organically making all of us, meaning the fans and the audience, terrified to see what is going to happen. And the premiere and again, 22 seasons. And I. I was blown away by it. When we were reading it, I was like, wow. So that's all I'll say.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, so this is what they said. They opened their marriage to be with other people. Teddy and Owen. Owen slept with someone. She didn't. Teddi chooses herself in the finale and breaks up with Owen. What is ahead for Teddi's character after her I choose me moment? Did you love that moment for her?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, I loved that monologue. I loved it so much.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I loved it in the table read.

[Kim Raver]

I thought it was. I mean, it's so good written. It's so. Also, as women, I just. I think it was such a great thing to put out there for this character in particular. I feel like. Well, first of all, what I was gonna say is for women, that as a woman, Teddy, in this relationship is saying, I choose me, and I'll kind of go around with that. I think Teddi is a type of person who's been through so much trauma that she has really, you know, continuously always done things for other people all the time at her own expense. And I think for her in that moment, to say I choose me is a pivotal game changer moment, and I just love it. Also for women and for the fans out there, to see that you can. You know, it's interesting. It's like we're. We're told a lot in just. I feel like the stratosphere. Right? Like, you know, I don't know. There's just so. There's so much noise and there's a lot to navigate as women and so to be able. In a vulnerable moment and in a Solid, clear moment to be able to say I choose me. I just feel like it's such a beautiful thing and it's not retaliation, it's not anger. It's such a simple thing of I need to go. Like, I felt like in that moment Teddi was saying I need to go get my together and I need to put myself first to do that. And I don't know what that is. I am literally jumping off a cliff in free fall. But I'm trusting myself enough that, like, I got me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love this so much. I. I can see I'm picturing tattoos. Kim, the I choose me. We've been talking about me getting a.

[Kim Raver]

Tattoo, but maybe I will make the.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I choose me tattoo. I loved that in the table read, you were sat next to me when you did that monologue and I. And you were so emotional doing it and it made me, everyone around us, so emotional. And I remember us having the discussion of, like, what does that mean to her?

[Kim Raver]

Like right after.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And I think fans will be just really excited for, for the storyline and to see what that means to her and her kind of like figuring out what it means to her as the season goes on. I love that you said it's almost like you in free Fall that you don't even know necessarily what that looks like. I just think that's so relatable.

[Sarah Drew]

I think those pivotal moments where you, where you have to gather courage, that almost feels otherworldly.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, right.

[Sarah Drew]

Because, I mean, when we were talking to Mel Robbins, it's like the reason why 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 works is because you're like, you gotta have a countdown to that. Because it's not, it doesn't feel natural. Like choosing you in the weirdest way doesn't feel natural. It feels like you should. Like we were taught women sort of like sightness or like we're supposed to. We're supposed. That's actually not what our natural state. Our natural state is, is being of service. And by the way, all these things can be true right at the same time. But being of service or whatever, but, but we don't actually live in a natural state of being in service to ourselves. And so, God, I mean, the courage to say that out loud and not. Not be wary or, or worried about.

[Kim Raver]

Judgment and also to not know like that to me is what is so interesting. It's we, we like to make or I like to make choices when I know what that outcome is going to be. Right. So for Teddy to be able to make this choice in the complete Unknown. Yeah. And when he has been her person, he has, you know, and he might still be. We don't know. That's also what's so great. But the free fall without knowing. And I think that that journey is. And to sort of answer one of those questions, that's. I think what is gonna be really fun about Teddy's journey forward.

[Sarah Drew]

Oh, that's exciting.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We got a lot of questions about Sophia Bush.

[Kim Raver]

A lot.

[Sarah Drew]

We had her on the show too. And she had the best things to say about you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She did, she did, yes. People are curious if you hang out in real life because they saw pictures of you recently together. I think it's the night before party.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, my God, we had so much fun. Yeah, it was so much fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Did you feel instant chemistry with her?

[Kim Raver]

Yes. So it was.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She said the same thing, by the way.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, she did, yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise she's. I'd be like, wow, she's a really.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm like, she didn't say she had a. She has zero character, Kim.

[Kim Raver]

I adore her. I am blown away by her. I just think she's so smart. She's such a. She came in. You know, it is hard to come onto our show. It is such a tight group and it is a train, a fast moving train. I mean, we are just like, you know, shooting and it's not, you know, like a new show that's sort of finding its legs and, you know, we move fast. And she just. She stepped on that bullet train, man, and just flew. And what's so incredible is I had a big load to carry because I'm also. I was directing that episode where we also had a huge love scene where, you know, and she is such a collaborator too. Like, I just felt she was so supportive in. Cause I was very specific on what my vision was for that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I wanna know more about that. Directing yourself in a love scene with also someone that is a new love interest.

[Kim Raver]

Right, Right, Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

How?

[Kim Raver]

What?

[Jessica Capshaw]

How do you do it?

[Kim Raver]

It's so funny. How do you do it?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you giving yourself notes like Kim, more passion?

[Kim Raver]

No, I literally was watching the dailies and there's a moment I had the overhead camera and we're like kissing and making. And I went, wait, wait, hang on, hold on one second. She was like, what's happening? We were like mid kiss. And I was like, you know what? I just had a thought. And this was like a direct. Yes. No. Yes. In the middle. You can't. But it was so. And she was like, I got it. Yes. It was so hilarious. And it was a needed note. Like I was almost. But I wasn't watching myself. That is what is. It's funny. Cause in an interview I said it was like an out of body experience, but it wasn't an out of body experience, meaning in the sense that I was completely in my body. I was completely in my body as Teddy. But I felt so comfortable and so relaxed that I also was able to have this overhead director view, but then like drop back in. It was an incredible experience. And also maybe because maybe this is the type A, right? Like I had so much control. Cause I was the one catching it. Right? Like I felt. Now listen, we had an intimacy coordinator. Everything was mapped out. It was all choreographed. But what was so amazing also is for me, the directing thing, what is just blowing my mind is that I can read the script. I can imagine what I see. And you know, when we come in as actors and a director, they'll sort of, you know, stand here, do this. But for me, the first time I sat at the monitor and what I had imagined in my head, I saw it unfolding the way I had imagined. It was such a. It was just magical for me. And so the same. So she just. Working with her is really. There's such a trust and a freedom. And it's interesting because I have a similar trust and freedom with Kevin.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Kim Raver]

And to be able to have that just means that you can do your homework and then you can come and just play ball. And that also is, you know, if you're guesting on another show, you know, you're coming into someone else's show. And I. That is, that. That's just a different game. So to be able to kind of be relaxed and feel like comfortable. And I just, I just love her. I just think she's an amazing collaborator. She has so much experience. She's so sm. Um, she's. She's. And, and she's. She's a neighbor. We, we. You know, so it's.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know people don't know this. They literally are neighbors in real life.

[Kim Raver]

She gave me honey for Christmas, I think, last year. And it was the bees that are like in our neighborhood. It's. It's really. I just. I love that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love it. I have to say that I. So we obviously I read the script and then I wasn't there when you guys were shooting any of your stuff together last season. And then I watched, I caught the episode and I was like, oh, shit. They have a lot of chemistry. And I was like, owen, watch out. I would be worried if I was Owen. We'll have to see though. I can't say anymore but last season I was watching and I was. I was very nervous.

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[Sarah Drew]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Kim Raver]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Kim Raver]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Kim Raver]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or.

[Jay Shetty]

Burn or any of that other stuff.

[Kim Raver]

That y' all said.

[Sarah Drew]

They literally made me say that I.

[Kim Raver]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Jessica Capshaw]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Chris Pine]

Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

[Sarah Drew]

Foreign.

[Josh Clark]

Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff youf Should Know True crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Pine]

People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the wild west of American medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Sarah Drew]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper.

[Kim Raver]

AI Built for marketers.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Are you directing more episodes this season?

[Kim Raver]

I am, I am coming up, which I'm really excited about. I, you know, I would have loved.

[Sarah Drew]

To have been there for you to direct. I never got to be there with you as a director.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's amazing.

[Kim Raver]

You're so sweet.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I bet you are amazing, though.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, you're so sweet.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love, I mean, I do love it when actors direct. I think it's like this really incredible experience because you just have that like language. But you are very special.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, I, I feel so lucky. I mean, again, to be able to direct the actors on our show. Everyone is so talented. And I'm not just saying that.

[Sarah Drew]

They really are.

[Kim Raver]

Everyone really is so talented. There's a, you know, I was talking about with someone, you know, there is technique to all of the stuff that we have to do and then to be able to. And I, look, I know that that's our job and the fans are probably like, well, yeah, that's your job. But to be able to kind of within the technique to after all these years to sort of really, you know, live and breathe in that. And I, and everyone is so generous to, you know, I love coming up and sort of saying, hey, take if you want this note. Great, here it is. Yeah. And I, and I, I feel the excitement from cast members to be like, yeah, okay, let's try that. Or yeah, you know, so that, that's, that's great.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And has it changed the way that you interact with a director?

[Kim Raver]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

As an actor.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Because now you've been on the other side, right. And you know, when they're coming in with a note and. Okay, how so? I'm so interested.

[Kim Raver]

That's interesting. I don't know how to put it into words. Yeah, I don't know how to put it into words. It's more of just. There is directing. Look, I always understood that there's so many parts to it, but it is such a multifunctional, dimensional multitasking. But on. Talk about, like, Bullet Train, because, again, TV is so fast. You have to make these split, like, decision, like, really fast. Even though everything is set up and everything is prepared. And you have to know when to, like, you know, guard your. The babies that you're like, I have to shoot. I mean, for example, there was one. I mean, this is not answering your question, but that's okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm in now. I'm in with it.

[Kim Raver]

There was this one shot of Shonda Chandra that I absolutely.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I was like, she was on it.

[Kim Raver]

No, no, no, no. That I absolutely knew. I just. It was two seasons ago, and she's on the balcony and the sun is setting. And for me, it's kind of an homage to a lot of times in the early episodes, you see men standing on. And I really wanted Chandra Wilson. I felt. I feel like. I just thought it was really important for many reasons. And we were on location, and it just kind of kept coming down to, you know, I don't think we're gonna be able to do this. This is not gonna happen. And I just. I mean, bless our producers, because I just kept pushing them to the limit. I mean, it was from. I think it was like, 3:20. And I had to kind of give up the set. And they're like, kim, we're really sorry, but we're not gonna be able to do this. They're like, the sun sets. I think he said, like, 4:15. And I said, oh, no, no. The sun sets at 4:36. He goes, 4:36? I said, yeah, 4:36. He said, well, I already sent Kate Walsh. And I literally. Julie, the writer comes out of the mist of all of these. Cause we're a huge crew. And she's like, I think we can get this shot. And I was like, yes, I think we can get this shot. And literally, the producer takes the walkie talkie, and he goes, turn Kate Walsh's van around now. And the entire crew, like, lifted up these huge lights, and everyone is, like, running up the stairs. And our dp, Jeanne, amazing. She was like, get that light there. Throw this thing there. Like, I mean, the Entire crew, like, came together. And, I mean, I was changing my shoes and putting. I swear, I think I was, like, putting on Teddi's dress because I was in the scene too, like, as we were running up the stairs and we got that shot and that shot, they used it, like, in all of, like, the publicity. And it just. It. It was, for me, something that was so important. And then as another, you know, it.

[Sarah Drew]

Was a worthy fight you fought. It was a worthy night.

[Kim Raver]

You have to know when you can't get it right, when it's too expensive, when it's not going to work, when, you know, when you can't. And so I think for that moment, for example, as an actor and that you see a director, you know, running up the stairs, you know, carrying a crew person because she wants that show instead of, you know, like, there's no lollygagging there. Like, I will sprint up those stairs now for a director. Because I understand. Yes.

[Sarah Drew]

Isn't that interesting?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes.

[Kim Raver]

Whereas not to say that I was, like, going back to my trailer. No, no.

[Sarah Drew]

But you understand it in a different way.

[Kim Raver]

You understand it in a different.

[Sarah Drew]

You understand being a parent differently when you're become a parent, right?

[Kim Raver]

Yes. Yes.

[Sarah Drew]

I have a question, because I just think that so many. I don't know if this is on the list of things, but I think it's just also. Because I was there for it. I'm kind of zigging. I'm not zagging. I'm just gonna. You came for Christina Yang's character, but you were brought by Owen Hunt. How has your relationship with Kevin slash Owen Hunt? That's been a long journey. Like, what is your relationship with him like in real life?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah. His fans want to know this. They want to know if you guys are close in real life.

[Kim Raver]

We are. I mean, we've spent so many hours and so many days and so many years and so many, you know, family thing. Like, I mean, the amount of, you know, 4:30am and my kid has the flu and hasn't slept through the night, and I'm.

[Sarah Drew]

I don't.

[Kim Raver]

I don't know my dialogue. Like, I got you. Like, the amount of I got yous even. Not even spoken. I got you. It's just been. It's really just such a blessing. I mean, and he's such a good actor, and he's so. I mean, he has directed so many episodes. Yeah.

[Sarah Drew]

More than Chandra.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah. More than Chandra. More than Rob Corn. Like, the most episodes of anybody.

[Kim Raver]

And he's so great of any person. Yes, Any person.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Any person. Oh, you thought we were talking about actors. No, I'm talking about any director ever of Grace.

[Sarah Drew]

Yeah, I remember when he directed his very first episode.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't remember which one that was. I think it was before me.

[Kim Raver]

And so, I mean, you know, I would. When I knew I wanted to start doing. I mean, I could talk three hours about Debbie Allen. How unbelievably gracious and incredible and what a mentor. And I mean, just. And also, I'll just talk briefly because I know that you guys have to. But, like, I mean, also, the incredible thing about mentorship and about Debbie Allen is, you know, when women finally get the opportunity to do something that they've been clamoring to do, to have the craft down, thanks to Debbie, is a huge thing. Because I do think that. Not on. I just think outside in the world, in this business, we are judged more when we finally do get that opportunity, because there's been less opportunity for us to do it. And so Debbie took the time and the effort and the clarity and the knowledge, and she is so generous in imparting that and making sure, you know, you don't just get an episode on Grey's. It is a long process, and it's only until you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can you speak to that a little bit, because we've never actually talked about.

[Kim Raver]

That on the show. It's just.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're shadowing.

[Kim Raver]

You're shadowing. You are. You are. And shadowing means you are not to be getting in the way. You are not to be sort of seen. You are there to observe. And I felt like I was doing, like, a UCLA film course because it's so extensive and so incredible, and you're looking at things in a very different way than. Yes. I've been watching it over the X amount of years that I've been doing this from the sidelines as an actor. But to really be shadowing Debbie Allen is a true gift. It's a class. So that. So that. When you. When I was given that opportunity, I felt really prepared because how did that work?

[Sarah Drew]

Cause I'm curious is, did you go to. Do you go to the producers and say, I'm interested in directing? And then they say, amazing, because obviously, who wouldn't want you to. And here's what. Here's the class. Here are the classes you have to take, if you will. Like, this is how long. This is how many episodes we need you to shadow. This is like, how does that work?

[Kim Raver]

I think it works differently for. For each individual. You know, I had Put together.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You had already directed.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah, I had already directed. I had put together several books and sold them and produced and got them, made them as films. One was the Alyssa Milano, and that was amazing. And so I had already had it a little bit. A little bit, but not to the extent of Shadow. And I think. So what's the protocol? What's the procedure again? I think it's different for every person. For me, I started talking about it with Debbie, and for me, it's really about this beauty of getting to expand as a creative and to be able to take what I have as an actor and be able to kind of blow that up and out and more. And I just find it so exciting. So I started talking about that with her, and I had to sort of keep on trying to find a spot to shadow because there's even. You even have to wait your turn to shadow. There are many people who want to shadow for great reasons. And so it's. Again, just because you're on the show doesn't mean it's automatic.

[Sarah Drew]

They wouldn't let me direct.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don't know that. Yeah, you don't know that.

[Sarah Drew]

No, I'm saying. No, I'm saying. I'm saying it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, you actually asked, and they said, get out of here.

[Sarah Drew]

Bye. Turn around. No, no, I did not ask, but I. No, I was just saying I don't think. Yeah, that was not something that I. I didn't ask.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, but see, that. That's really. I didn't ask. Right. That's an. But that. That sentence is really important, I think, because I think that's. For me at least, I feel like me and my female friends, we are learning to ask. Yeah, but. And to. To. To feel, to kind of find what is it that I want to do? Do I want to do that? How do I want to do that? And being able to voice that we want to be bigger and expand and do more. And I know you, Capsha, you are someone who puts in the work, both of you. So it's about, what is it that I want and what is the work that I have to do to a. To get brave enough to do the ask and then to follow through in that. But that's also for me, with women, that I'm really trying to just be a sounding board. And because I see with other friends of mine that my sister, too, you know, this incredible. And Debbie Allen, I mean, like, look at how she. All of the incredible things she does, you know, and we have kids, right? Like, and she has kids. So it's sometimes you think, oh, I wanna ask, but then I've got the kid, like, and there's all of the reasons why we can't. And they're all very valid. But in the moment when you. When one feels. Or when I felt ready to do it, my kids were older, that's like another thing. But I love that sentence of I didn't ask. Well, then I have to think about, okay, why am I not asking? Do I really want to do it? Oh, yeah, I really want to do it. And sort of what? Like, and then sounding it with my female friends of how I want to build out this chapter in my life as my kids are getting older kind of thing. And making those asks because what's the worst?

[Sarah Drew]

Well, yeah, because you're likely to 100% not get answers for questions you don't ask.

[Kim Raver]

Right. Or you might get an answer that you don't want to hear a no. Right. And I feel like a no in this business has been. I mean, my big thing that I keep telling my kids, they hear it all the time. I'm like, okay, well, if you hear a no, how are you going to turn that no into a yes if it's something that you really want? Now, that's not like, no, you can't have that for dinner. That's not what I'm talking about. Right. And then having a whole conversation with them about what that is. It's our whole business. 99.9% of the time is rejection. Yeah. So it's. How do we mental health protect ourselves? How do we. And that's why I love sports, because I think that sports, it's a constant. You're constantly up against something blocking you. And how do you prepare yourself? How do you train yourself? How do you then turn that no or that block into a yes if you really want it?

[Sarah Drew]

Well, and I think there's many different professions where this happens, but I think there's something beautiful about how quickly it happens, so you don't have to think. It's like, you win fast and you lose fast. You know, in sports, in auditions, usually, sometimes in business, you know, like, it's actually, it's very helpful to me to have it happen quickly because then you are actually really asked to recover, which, of course, builds that muscle, which is the resilience, which is where you find out if you have the grit. Right. Like, how much can. How many no's can I hear? How many and how many notes can I turn into yeses? And also, like, how many times does the no actually remind me that I didn't really want it or you have to really want something very badly to want to turn the no into a yes. Yeah, I know. And I actually. I think.

[Kim Raver]

I think.

[Sarah Drew]

I think also for directing, I also think that in my family, I feel like other people occupy that space.

[Kim Raver]

I hear that, and I understand, but. And that's a bit. That's a. That's a big one, right? That's a big. Who are we following? You know, who do we feel that we're following?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Just. You almost feel like you can't. Like you can't do it because of that.

[Kim Raver]

Like, almost like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Well, your dad is your dad. He's like, you know.

[Sarah Drew]

Yeah, no, no. I actually. I say this to my kids all the time because they're. They're too.

[Kim Raver]

They're.

[Sarah Drew]

I mean, they're not yet at the age where they would actually make a decision in a direction of a career. Right. But they talk about that because one of them asked, I think it was Josie, and she's only nine. So she was like, what's a Nepo, baby?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, my God, that's really funny.

[Sarah Drew]

She really didn't know. And so she was like, what's a Nepo, baby? And I was trying to explain it. And both of you know how careful I am with my words with my children and my mindfulness around it and all that. And I was like, hmm. And we ended up getting. I don't know exactly what words I use, but we ended up getting to the part that I really believe in, which really made me feel bad a lot in the beginning of my career, where people would be like, well, you come from this, or you. You had all this, or you have access to this, or you could do anything you want or whatever. Whatever someone was imagining about me. And then my lived experience of being like. And no one's doing, like, you can't do this thing for someone. Like, they have you to do it yourself. Even if you have access, you still have to do it yourself.

[Kim Raver]

Right.

[Sarah Drew]

And so we got to the part that was like, it makes a lot of sense to me that people do what their parents do. You know, it actually makes sense to me that you have a role model that's doing something and you see a path forged, or you see the way something's done or that you are inspired by it or you think it's great or whatever it is. So, you know, when I look at the storytellers in my family, I think, it's not that I don't want to Direct. Because I think it's more like.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I've.

[Sarah Drew]

Seen it done so beautifully. I know exactly what I've had a front row seat to, watching what goes into it. And it's actually not the pull I feel to story. It's not the vantage point that I feel in story. I want to be a part of a different aspect of the story. Also, I talk too much. I would pull those actors aside and be like, okay, so let me tell you. And the DP would be like, we gotta go, Kapsha.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We gotta go.

[Sarah Drew]

I wouldn't have got the shot, you know? God, you didn't make your day.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah, but you were.

[Sarah Drew]

Shut up.

[Kim Raver]

Stop banging on to go to what you just said. I mean, I still. Yes. And I still feel like the voice that you have is very different than the path that you feel that you would have to follow in. Right. I understand everything that you're saying, and that makes total sense.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And.

[Kim Raver]

That'S a big one to carry. Right. But it also goes to. Did you guys feel like in the beginning of your career, before you were working, it's that thing of finding your voice or who you were or how do you get noticed or in those auditions? And I think that that's. You realize, like, oh, I have to. I have to tell my. Like, my voice, my vision, my. Which is hard when you're starting out. You know, my eldest is a painter, and, you know, his finding his voice, his creative voice. And so I think what I. I guess what I'm trying to say is your vision, voice, like, I want to.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Hear a different signature to it.

[Kim Raver]

You know what I mean? And.

[Sarah Drew]

And whether you.

[Kim Raver]

I mean, if you don't. If that's not the kind of medium that you want to do, that's a totally different thing. Right. If you're.

[Jessica Capshaw]

If we're ready for Capshaw, director.

[Kim Raver]

Yes, exactly.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We want to see it.

[Kim Raver]

We support it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

We support it.

[Kim Raver]

We want to hear it and see it.

[Sarah Drew]

I love it. Thank you, ladies. I feel supported.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can I just make this about me for a second?

[Sarah Drew]

Yes, please, Please.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I really hated it when Kim was shadowing because.

[Sarah Drew]

Why?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, yeah, this was really funny.

[Jessica Capshaw]

When I see Kim Raber on set, I always have a lot to talk.

[Sarah Drew]

Oh, yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And we just.

[Sarah Drew]

It wasn't open for business.

[Kim Raver]

She was not open for me.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Shuttered. I would come up to her. I would see her. Right. I would see her.

[Kim Raver]

I'm trying to be a shot. I'm trying to. Literally, I'm trying.

[Sarah Drew]

I'm living in shadows.

[Kim Raver]

I. I'm hiding Hiding behind like this. I see her from the distance coming. You tell the story.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It was so annoying. I was like, I have things to tell you. And so I come up like, hey, Kim. Oh, my God. Okay, so last night. And she'd be like this. No, I can't. She wouldn't even speak in a regular voice. She'd be like this.

[Kim Raver]

I'm not here. I'm not here.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, but, Kim. No, but, Kim. It was literally like a toddler. You know when they talk about toddlers, like, trying to get into the bathroom when you're in the bathroom, like, holding.

[Kim Raver]

On to your leg.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes. I gotta tell you, it was. I hate it. It's the most annoying because I want to talk to her and she won't talk to me.

[Kim Raver]

I would do one of those things where you, like, where you kind of, like, your eyes get wide and you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Kind of shake your head and I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm not. But I'd be like, yes. Yeah.

[Kim Raver]

Because I had very. I had very.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You were being very professional.

[Sarah Drew]

Yes, I know. Well, also, I feel like when the three of us get together when we're not working, there's some shenanigans.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, there.

[Sarah Drew]

Oh, yeah, yeah, we're shenanigany. We've been. You know, if we hearken back to Paris, you know, there could have been, like, a.

[Kim Raver]

So much fun.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, we could have.

[Sarah Drew]

Well, because I don't know if everybody knows this, but Kim Raver speaks French like a French person.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Sarah Drew]

Is that the right way to say. It's not like an American speaking French, speaks French like, she's a French person. So we all got to be in Paris together, and we went to say.

[Kim Raver]

Something about the two of you to your crew, your amazing fans. The way you guys compliment and are so generous. That's not. That is this. This thing that they do is not just for, like, the people that are your guests. It is really such. It's such an incredible thing and such an amazing lesson for women, supporting women. You guys genuinely are so. It's like you find these beautiful, like, the sparkle in people, and you. You support that. And I just. It's really. It's really amazing. It's really. I love you, Kim.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're easy to support, though.

[Sarah Drew]

You are. Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

She's easy to support you.

[Sarah Drew]

I love. But I love. But I love that you said that, because I do think it's worth calling people into the conversation about why not? That's how I feel about that, you know, like, why not? When you see something that you admire about someone or that you even in that moment go like wow, I couldn't do that or I don't think I could do that or I really like that. You know, it's like it's so. It, it can be so easy to just say it.

[Kim Raver]

I love it. No, I know.

[Sarah Drew]

And, and it's like not saying it on some level. I think it, it robs you of the opportunity to connect.

[Kim Raver]

Foreign.

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[Kim Raver]

Customers.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Sarah Drew]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Kim Raver]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Kim Raver]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Kim Raver]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or.

[Jay Shetty]

Burn or any of that other stuff.

[Kim Raver]

That y' all said.

[Sarah Drew]

They literally made me say that I.

[Kim Raver]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Sarah Drew]

They made me say that I poured.

[Kim Raver]

Gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Kim Raver]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Chris Pine]

Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in The Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava For Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Josh Clark]

Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff youf Should Know True Crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna.

[Podcast Guest (Unidentified)]

When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint. I was robbed. All these horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay, I'm gonna rapid fire some questions.

[Sarah Drew]

Okay.

[Jessica Capshaw]

People wanna know if you had a say in the Open Marriage plotline.

[Kim Raver]

Good question. I felt very protective of Teddy, and I think Kevin felt very protective of Owen because our characters had been through so much. And I'll try to make this rapid fire. So Meg was incredible. We would actually go because we were shooting a scene right next door to the set of Joe's Bar. So we would go and sit down and we had, like, a couple conversations in there. As this storyline was evolving, I just. For me, it felt super important that it wasn't just like, ha, ha, open marriage. Like, we're just, Teddy's gonna have an affair again. And I really wanted it to be that Teddi had learned from her mistake of having the affair and that this was a very specific Both parties agreeing to it. And after having kind of gone through therapy, because there are people who do have open marriages that totally work for them. I mean, that is, you know, not something that works for me. So I wanted to be very mindful of that. Teddi had actually evolved and grown because I knew that it was gonna be a very complicated storyline, and Meg was incredible about it, and I felt really heard the concerns that Kevin and I had, and I think that Teddy and Owen's relationship is a very, like, evolved and mature relationship. And I think it's really cool that on the show that we can touch base on different types of relationships. And I thought, for me, I wanted to kind of justify that her love was so deep for Owen that at that point when open marriage came up, that it was either they were gonna break up or they had to try something because they had been fighting for two years at this point. And I think we needed something really different storyline so that we weren't kind of doing the same fighting. So, yes, the writers were incredibly generous in hearing and kind of amalgamating what. What. How that storyline was.

[Jessica Capshaw]

It was one of my favorite storylines last season.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I think it's super compelling. I've said that to you almost every Tavern. I really love it.

[Kim Raver]

You have amazing instincts, too, in terms of.

[Sarah Drew]

She does.

[Kim Raver]

Incredible. Incredible.

[Sarah Drew]

Crazy.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah, you really have. Amazing.

[Sarah Drew]

She's got such a good sense of story and, like, what it. She can just come up with stuff out of nowhere.

[Kim Raver]

I know. I know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I think it's really good. I think it's being told really well, and I think I'm excited for you guys to see what happens next season, too.

[Sarah Drew]

Okay, what's your next one? Rapid Fire.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What is one song on Teddy's playlist?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, that's good. I do listen to a lot of music for. Sort of for her. Yeah, for prep.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Kim Raver]

I'm trying to think of what reason.

[Sarah Drew]

Or when you're shadowing and you need a Camilla to go away. I'm listening.

[Kim Raver]

I'm listening. Just not to you. Um, you know, this is not Teddy. I just started listening to. Do you know Jessie Murph?

[Jessica Capshaw]

No. Who is that?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, my God. She's incredible.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You know who this is?

[Kim Raver]

She is un. She's. I think, like, 20, of course. And her. I mean, her lyrics are. You know, it. I. It's not something I think we. She's just. She's incredible.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Is there a particular song that we can look up, Furio?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, I don't know. I have to look at my phone. I started listening to her, but she's. She's incredible.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Kim Raver]

She's. I don't know if it's. If it's. It's this amazing mix, and you go to Nashville. I. I never would have thought.

[Sarah Drew]

I'm here right now.

[Kim Raver]

You are?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah.

[Sarah Drew]

That's what she is.

[Kim Raver]

Yay. It's this amazing mix of, like, country, but Also she has rap and then there's also like rock. It's. It's. It's. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's. She's amazing. I love her.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Kim Raver]

I want to meet her and just be like, where do you. How do you write your lyrics? Right. So good.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. I love it.

[Kim Raver]

New.

[Jessica Capshaw]

New person to listen to. I loved this question. Are there little. Because I don't know the answer to this. Are there little changes in Teddy's scrubs, hair or post call hoodies or I guess outfits on the show? That show where she's at emotionally?

[Kim Raver]

Oh, like. Yeah. I mean, we definitely try to rummel is our costume. She's just wardrobe designer. She's amazing. And there are very subtle distinctions of sort of. We talk about it. I sort of say, oh, well, Teddy's feeling very vulnerable at this point, so let's work with this. And within sort of what Teddy's look is. I'm trying to like. So do you want specifics of like what I don't know.

[Jessica Capshaw]

This is fan question.

[Sarah Drew]

You have a follow up question for the fan?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I do, yeah.

[Sarah Drew]

No, I'm saying let's get a follow up question for that fan.

[Kim Raver]

No, but there's definitely. I don't know if there's.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, but I think, I think that's. That's the answer that you're going into wardrobe fittings and you are having the conversation about where she's at emotionally on her journey and then it's reflected in what you're wearing.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah. Because I think with. With scrubs, not as much.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No. Of course.

[Sarah Drew]

All we have is our scrub cap.

[Kim Raver]

Really?

[Sarah Drew]

And shoes.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah. Which on the scrub cap has been a really big story point.

[Sarah Drew]

Yes.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah. Which is great.

[Sarah Drew]

I'd like to point out that you look good in a scrub cap.

[Kim Raver]

Thank you.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I know. It's a very particular thing. It's like an egg. No, you don't.

[Kim Raver]

I do. I haven't. Good. You do.

[Sarah Drew]

Remember when you would. Did you ever, like, do the. Do my. Does the scrub cap go inside my ears or.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You have an inside or outside? I like my ears tucked.

[Kim Raver]

I think mine are out.

[Sarah Drew]

I mean, you guys, is that funny that you don't know off the top of your head?

[Kim Raver]

I. I'm. They're out. They're out.

[Sarah Drew]

I think.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Why is me crazy.

[Kim Raver]

Very specific. I need. I want. I like it when it's square. Yep, yep.

[Sarah Drew]

No, I'm the same way. I'm the same. And sometimes they. With your scrub caps, like though. Because they're cotton. So they wash them I mean, my guests, they dry clean them, but they have a couple of them.

[Kim Raver]

Would you even notice if yours was weird?

[Jessica Capshaw]

I don't. Oh, if it's weird.

[Kim Raver]

If it's like. If it's all, like. Like, I don't know. I would be like, it's different, it's different, it's different.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, I don't know if my. It's been pressed or not for the day, but, yes, I look like an absolute. One of our producers. I look like an egg that's been. And that's like the band aid that's been put on top.

[Kim Raver]

You're so beautiful. You could have a paper bag over you.

[Sarah Drew]

So true.

[Kim Raver]

No, I mean, she comes in and you just look amazing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, no, not true, but thank you.

[Kim Raver]

Yes.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay.

[Sarah Drew]

I'm trying. Have you only ever had one scrub cap or have you had.

[Kim Raver]

No, just one. I won't let it go. It's the whole Allison thing. I can't.

[Sarah Drew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm fans. I would like to know if I've had more than one. I think I've had two. I think I started with the Holly Hobby.

[Jessica Capshaw]

What is the Holly Hobby?

[Sarah Drew]

It was like a patchwork quilt of pink.

[Kim Raver]

Stop it.

[Sarah Drew]

No, I'm not joking. It was like squares.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Looking at it right now.

[Kim Raver]

It's really cute. And also, you look so beautiful. You have. You have ears in. You have ears.

[Sarah Drew]

Do I have ears in?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, you're a tuck.

[Sarah Drew]

But then I moved into a solid pink floral.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, interesting.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah.

[Sarah Drew]

And I always tried to get shoes that had a little lift on them, so that's why I wore the. The clogs.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, the clogs.

[Kim Raver]

You were.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You did wear the clogs. Okay, I have more questions real quick. What is one thing you're still dying to explore for Teddy that we haven't seen yet?

[Kim Raver]

That's a good question, I think. Where? Just this. What's happening in this free fall? What is it?

[Sarah Drew]

What's she gonna do?

[Kim Raver]

What's she gonna do?

[Jessica Capshaw]

It's good. We gotta get you back home when we can talk more about everything.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

All right, last question. Do you want to pick the last question? Do you have the list, Jess?

[Sarah Drew]

No, I'm loving that you're doing it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. Okay. I thought you didn't. Okay.

[Sarah Drew]

I mean, I have it, but I'm loving that you're doing it.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Very last question. When did Teddi know the open marriage wasn't working?

[Kim Raver]

I mean, I think going into it, she's like, oh, boy, this could blow up stuff but we're, we're not. It's, that's what I said before. It's, it's, it either it can save us or the relationship is dying. So I think, as a fan, I.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Have an opinion about this answer.

[Kim Raver]

I think it's, Let me check and then I want to hear this.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I want to compare.

[Kim Raver]

I mean, oh, God, that's, I mean, I feel like when Teddi saw Owen.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That'S what I think.

[Kim Raver]

That moment with her, she was like, oh, fuck, this was a terrible mistake. This is not saving. Sh. Know. But you know what's so interesting?

[Jessica Capshaw]

You're talking about the moment when Teddy's at the wedding and Owen's. Are you talking about the moment?

[Kim Raver]

And she walks in and she's like, I have good news. I solved the problem. And she sees Nora. Yes. And, and, and Owen. Like, like, like the loving, holding, caressing, like, holding. It was like, so intimate.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah. It was unnecessary.

[Kim Raver]

It was unnecessary.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

[Kim Raver]

I, I'm angry for Teddy. Yeah, I'm angry for Teddy because Teddy, like, let me justify it. I think, really? That wasn't the rule. That wasn't the rule.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That wasn't the agreement.

[Kim Raver]

There was no, like, intimacy falling in love. There was like, you know, I'm like, I am getting hot too.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I see. It's a dangerous game.

[Sarah Drew]

Listen, it can work for others. There's no shade being thrown at anyone who this works for. Right. But I, I, I agree. I mean, I, I even just, just the. Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough sell.

[Kim Raver]

It didn't. Yeah, I think that moment. Yeah, that, that was a, that's a crushing moment.

[Sarah Drew]

Didn't you ever see that Woody Harrelson, Demi Moore, Robert Redford movie, Indecent Proposal?

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kim Raver]

I auditioned for that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You did?

[Kim Raver]

I was, like, close to that. That, like, that would have been really scary to actually have to have done.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Wait, I have to ask an actor question. Before you go. What is one role that you lost out on that you're like, look back on?

[Sarah Drew]

Such a good question.

[Kim Raver]

That is a really good question. I mean, early ear, early. Hi, son. We're early.

[Sarah Drew]

Early in the olden wheel days. Wagon wheel days.

[Kim Raver]

Some coffee. I mean, one of my first big, big auditions that I was super close to, that was crushing. Your fan base is not even gonna know who.

[Jessica Capshaw]

That's how far back it was a silent movie.

[Kim Raver]

This. That was like, it's black and white.

[Sarah Drew]

You guys just be quiet.

[Kim Raver]

That's what happens on set all day.

[Sarah Drew]

Yeah, I'm glad She can do it to you.

[Kim Raver]

You know what? She thinks she's that.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, I know. I know.

[Kim Raver]

I'm on Talk about women supporting women now. I don't even want to say it.

[Sarah Drew]

Not her.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Okay. What is the movie?

[Kim Raver]

It was the Last of the Mohicans.

[Sarah Drew]

That's a massive movie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You think people don't know what that is? Daniel Day Lewis.

[Kim Raver]

She's trying to make up for it now. She's trying to get him.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, but I. I was expecting.

[Kim Raver]

I wanted to work with Daniel Day Lewis. No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. That was, like, the first.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, I'm shocked that you think that people. I mean, maybe younger generations don't know what that is.

[Sarah Drew]

You don't know what that is for sure.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You don' of it.

[Kim Raver]

But I've never seen it. See, they definitely have to look that up.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, yeah. I'm right on the heels, guys. I'm right on the heels.

[Kim Raver]

How about you? How about you guys? What was something.

[Sarah Drew]

I got a lot.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I'm trying to. I can't even. I've definitely. I mean, I have roles that I miss. Oh, you.

[Sarah Drew]

Are you the one that said, like, the last thing you. I feel like you, like, straight shot to Grey's Anatomy.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No, I wasn't straight shot. I did a lot of, like, auditioning for a lot of CW stuff that I really would have had fun. I would have had a blast doing, but I didn't have, like, a Last of the Mohicans.

[Sarah Drew]

No, no, those are two. Kim has two movies that were definitely. I mean. Yeah, those are big ones. Those are big ones. I'm happy for you, Kim.

[Kim Raver]

Well, I didn't get. Okay, yes, but.

[Sarah Drew]

Yes, but you're saying there was a chance.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Did you get to read with him?

[Kim Raver]

No, but I. It was.

[Sarah Drew]

I don't. I think I would have pooched my pants. That would be too intimidating. The times where I've gotten like, be careful what you wish for. Because the times that I've gotten so close to things that I actually had to go do the thing that was like, the thing right before getting it, when it was like, reading with the person or flying to the city and you're just like, wait, I just remembered one.

[Jessica Capshaw]

But can you say it or.

[Kim Raver]

No. You're gonna make fun of me. You're gonna be like. You're just dropping names.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No. Are you kidding?

[Kim Raver]

I was flown out. The Tom Cruise movie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Which one?

[Sarah Drew]

That would be exciting. Mission Impossible?

[Kim Raver]

No. Minority Report.

[Sarah Drew]

Oh, I'm aware.

[Kim Raver]

Yeah. See, you got, like. No, no, no, no, no.

[Sarah Drew]

Don't worry.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I.

[Sarah Drew]

No, no, no. I was not really in that movie.

[Jessica Capshaw]

No way. But.

[Sarah Drew]

Wow.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Did you test for her dad?

[Kim Raver]

I met with him. I had an unbelievable. Why do I not know this? Amazing, amazing. I don't know, because maybe I didn't want to, like, talk about it. I just remembered it. Oh, my gosh. I know. I. I met your dad and I met Tom Cruise and that was.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Wow.

[Sarah Drew]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kim Raver]

But that's the type of thing where it was like, so, like. I mean, a. Just your dad and like, Tom. That was the thing that was so crushing that it's like, do I keep. Do I keep going in this business? Yes.

[Sarah Drew]

That would be the ultimate affirmation. If you can end up in that room, you are just a second away from it.

[Kim Raver]

I know. And that's where like, I talk to my kids about grit. Like, enough of those rejects. And you just feel like, you know, like you're never. It's never gonna happen kind of thing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Oh, you just talked about the White Lotus. That's what you talked about recently.

[Sarah Drew]

I did. I talked about this last season, the White Lotus. But I also think that they're. I think that for a big. I mean, it sounds clever, but I say it all the time, but it's for a big part of my career. I have felt like there's been so many times, whereas I felt like it was between me and the girl who gets it. Like, I was always the second runner up.

[Kim Raver]

And.

[Sarah Drew]

And to have to experience that and then like, pull yourself up again and be like, the fact that I got that far is actually the proof that I will succeed. But I gotta keep going. And that's the hard part. But that's incredible.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I love that Scarlett Johansson has talked about this. She said that she's made a career, and of course, she's made the biggest career out of not being the first choice. And she's often like the third or four.

[Kim Raver]

And. And.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And she's the one that's ended up in the gig. And I always think about that because there's something to be said when they. Well, this person said no to it. So now they're coming to, you know.

[Kim Raver]

Which is also really hard. Right? Because you're like, wait, do I want to be. You're like, yes, I do. Yeah.

[Jessica Capshaw]

ScarJo's like, you do?

[Kim Raver]

You do.

[Jessica Capshaw]

You definitely end up an Avenger.

[Sarah Drew]

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Because you never know where you're gonna end up. I'm really happy that I ended up with you two. This has Been so much fun.

[Kim Raver]

I know this has been amazing.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Kim, will you please come back on the show? Because this season is bonkers.

[Kim Raver]

Bonkers.

[Jessica Capshaw]

And once we can really break down some of this, Stu fans are gonna.

[Kim Raver]

Like, some of them have a hundred more questions. Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you. Finally. I know.

[Sarah Drew]

And you don't. Kim, you probably don't know, but, you know, since we do promote shows here, 911 Nashville is now. I know.

[Kim Raver]

Congratulations.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I didn't even congratulate you.

[Kim Raver]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sarah Drew]

No need for congratulations. We now are. We're now reunited, so we air for God.

[Kim Raver]

That's so great. And Chris is so great. It's just great. A great cast.

[Sarah Drew]

We will be a lead in.

[Kim Raver]

And.

[Sarah Drew]

And I think that, you know, I don't know, you know, you never know what happens in the. In the Gray's universe or the 911 universe.

[Kim Raver]

But, you know, who knows?

[Sarah Drew]

If there couldn't be a crossover. We need Doctors. Sure.

[Kim Raver]

That would be amazing. That would be amazing. I would.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Can you imagine that night when you're in. If you were in two episodes? Like, that would be. Has it ever been done? I don't want to know if that's ever been done before as two different characters.

[Kim Raver]

Oh, that's so cool. That's right. How would that happen? Would you just be like, I'm not Arizona.

[Sarah Drew]

Or, you know, or Joe and Teddy go on a girls weekend to Nashville and we run into each other, you know, at a honky tonk.

[Kim Raver]

We. Oh, my God, that's so good. We have been pitching her, Joe and Teddy, just so like, we have. We have so much.

[Jessica Capshaw]

Yes, I would. I'd watch that in the Maldives.

[Kim Raver]

In Paris with a lot of wine. Teddy and Jen.

[Jessica Capshaw]

I like it. Okay, Kim, we're gonna let you go next time. Let's call it. Jess. Let's call it the end of the episode.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years until a local housewife, wife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Kim Raver]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Chris Pine]

Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Josh Clark]

Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary hotel heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff you should know true crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna.

[Podcast Guest (Unidentified)]

When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed. All these horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Pine]

People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the wild west of American medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Sarah Drew]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper.

[Kim Raver]

AI built for marketers. This is an iHeart podcast.