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[00:00]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
[00:03]
B
I'm Jessica Capshaw.
[00:04]
A
And I'm Camilla Ludington. And welcome to another episode of We Ride Adonis. Jessica, you're looking so summery today.
[00:14]
B
Oh, my gosh. It's because it's hotter than the face of the fucking sun out there. It is hot. It is the kind of New York hot where I. Which has happened. If you just saw me before I sat down, it's like, it's so hot that you have to kind of like, even if you wear deodorant, you have to get some paper towels every once in a while and just like. Yeah, put them under there. Like, put your. Clap your wings down, secure the paper towel, and just let it stay there for a minute.
[00:38]
A
Yeah. I just need people to know that when Jessica first came on the lazumi. Yeah. I was like, how is that? How does that dress work? And I didn't realize those were just two paper towels sprawling out of the armpits. I was like, are those straps? Like, what are those? Where can I buy that?
[00:54]
B
No, no, no. They were. They're. They're armpit. Their armpit accessories. No, I don't know what to tell you about that. Yeah, no, it's really hot. It's summer. It's. Is it midsummer yet?
[01:08]
A
Listen, for me, and I've seen this online. I'm. I. I was very encouraged to see that people were like, July 5th, summer's done.
[01:15]
B
I was like, great, I'm ready for Halloween.
[01:18]
A
But it's Summerween.
[01:20]
B
Oh, I can't with Halloween. I'm not there. I can't just stop you. No.
[01:24]
A
Jessica, do you know what I did, like, yesterday just to make myself feel like your face.
[01:28]
B
Oh, gosh.
[01:30]
A
Just like, I didn't decorate for Halloween.
[01:33]
B
I'm worried you're gonna say you did.
[01:35]
A
I did go to Michael's, literally, just to walk around because our stuff is out. It's almost like. It's like taking a Xanax.
[01:42]
B
Like, foreplay for you.
[01:44]
A
Xanax. I do need to walk around Michael's to see the Halloween decor.
[01:47]
B
I think it's like, foreplay. I think you just get yourself a little excited.
[01:51]
A
Yeah, it is a little foreplay.
[01:53]
B
It's a little exciting. You just, like, let you. You know, it's a couple smooches. It's a little kissing, a little kiss. And then when you. When you turn the corner and you go down row, aisle six, and it has just, like, a couple of Halloween things, it's like. Yeah, it's like some heavy Petting.
[02:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. Yeah, yeah, sure.
[02:13]
B
It goes. But you're not ready to go all the way.
[02:17]
A
I mean, to be honest, can I
[02:19]
B
tell you, I am ready, though. I was going to say I'm ready to go all the way and I'm not ready for you to go all the way.
[02:24]
A
I know. I don't think a lot of people are, but I'm just telling you that I am someone who's like, let's go close off.
[02:29]
B
I was going to say clothes on. It's a clothes on. Makeup for me. Foreplay. It's a foreplay.
[02:34]
A
If you ready. If you go out. When you go out and you see some fall Halloween stuff, does it not excite you? Because I do know it's your favorite season. No, spring is actually. But like, I do know you love fall.
[02:42]
B
I do love fall. But I told it. But you and I are we part ways about Halloween? It's just what it is. Anyways, let's get back to summer and armpit sweat.
[02:54]
A
Okay.
[02:54]
B
It's very hot. I guess we are in the middle of it. Have I. I've. There's been camp. There's been jobs. I have kids that are old enough to have jobs and who has a job? Well, Luke has been working for a long time. He was very. Yeah. I don't know if you know this about me. I had a job as soon as I could get a job as soon as I could get the work permit. When you're 15 or whatever because you have to get a special permit. I had a job. I was hostessing at Chin Chin on Salmon Sani Boulevard.
[03:26]
A
No, you were not a hostess.
[03:28]
B
Yes, I was. Yes, I was. I loved it so much. I loved. I wanted to make my own money. I wanted the responsibility. I wanted all of that. So anyways, evidently that's in the jeans there. And Luke got a job on a. On a charter fishing boat, like on a day tripper because he the most passionate and most talented sport fisherman. So here we are, mid summer. We've got kids going to camp. Are yours is in camp?
[03:56]
A
Yes, they are in camp. And Hayden, we've had sort of like not an argument, but there's been a lot of discussion because she's very frustrated with me this summer. Oh, she wants. She's nine and she wants to go to sleepaway camp. And it's been a big topic of conversation because some of her friends are. Her other friends are going from her school and there's a lot that are not. And I've put Her in normal day camps, the art camp, the drama, whatever it is. Right now she's off to this other camp in the hills, and they do all the things they do, the archery and all that stuff. Right. But she's like, I'm ready. I don't think she's ready. But I also know that I. I am not ready. And I'm not ready for so many reasons. And I think that I want to definitely get into it because there's a little discourse online about sleepaway camp. But I know that Josie went to sleepaway camp. Yes, I know, because I talked to you on a very long drive.
[05:02]
B
Yes. When? Yeah, I did. When I very long drive to go get there.
[05:08]
A
I have five hours to talk. Usually we're like. We have 15 minutes. You're like, I have an entire day
[05:15]
B
to talk about my extraction plan for Josie.
[05:20]
A
Yeah. Can you tell us about the extraction?
[05:22]
B
Well, okay. I mean, listen, I think we can go back and forth on this one. First question I have, let's get curious. Were you a sleepaway camp person? Did you enjoy. Did you go to one and did you enjoy it? I was.
[05:33]
A
Okay, listen, I wanted to go to sleepaway camp so bad in America. I dreamt I saw. Because we, like, listen, we, like, are feeding on American media all the time. Right.
[05:46]
B
To find your long lost twin sister, like, in the parent trap.
[05:49]
A
Exactly. Exactly. And I was gonna find her. And that camp was Camp America. This is the only name of the camp that I ever knew in my life and that they were gonna send me to Camp America. And there'd be canoes and archery, and I'd be in, like, a little wood cabin and. And, like, making friends. And I wanted Americana. And my parents said, you know what? You do get to go to camp here in England.
[06:15]
B
Oh, great.
[06:15]
A
It's gonna be a Bible camp. Oh, and let me tell you. Let me tell you. There were new canoes at that camp. There was no archery. I was waiting. No, I wanted the parent trap.
[06:27]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
[06:27]
A
I did not want.
[06:28]
B
And then send you out. Like, maybe you could build an ark. It was like church tinkering church for a week.
[06:33]
A
You know, I thought I would be up in a tree. Yeah. You know, zip lining.
[06:39]
B
Right. But you weren't.
[06:41]
A
We weren't. But the zip lining, archery, canoeing camps, that's what Hayden wants to go to. Like, that is. And so I understand that urge.
[06:53]
B
Yeah.
[06:53]
A
Like, I. By the way, I was the kid that always wanted to go to boarding school.
[06:57]
B
Yep.
[06:57]
A
I was all about sleeping away from home. She's not that kid though. And so that's where this is like a little, it's just a little different. But then I don't know. But, but I know that Josie went.
[07:11]
B
I. Yes, I know. And, and it's just not a straight line for most. I think it is for some, but I just don't think it is for most.
[07:19]
A
Okay, so then my question back to you is, did you go to camp?
[07:24]
B
Yes, I did. And I, when I was younger, I did not like it.
[07:30]
A
How young?
[07:31]
B
Those, it's those tween years where you're like, you don't have your driver's license yet, you don't have real agency and you can't, I mean you can get a job when you're 15, but you can't get like a real job because again, you don't have a driver's license. So anyways, there was a summer where. And I was always looking to do like the, I wanted to do the mature thing. I wanted to like always be doing the thing that was like more adulty. And there was, and it was right around the time that I had, you know, I had really not wanted to want to be an actress because that seemed so predictable. Cliche. Yeah, like my mom was an actress. I was in this family where, you know all of this film and it was like, that would be just so predictable and you know, I'm gonna be different and unique and I'm going to go do other things anyways. I was feeling all that at the same time that I couldn't deny that I really, really loved telling stories and I loved performing, if you will. But it was more in, in the way of telling stories. And I thought, oh fuck it. Like I'm, I can't get a real job this summer. I'm old enough to not be homesick if I go away and I'm going to look for like an arts program to go. And I had a friend that was similarly interested, although she was interested in music. And we decided to go to a six week long program at a school that. And it was going to be all, you know, music and the, and singing and everything else. And I had the time of my life because the campus was a really nice, like it almost felt like I was at college again, checking the box of I'm adult.
[09:08]
A
Yeah.
[09:09]
B
And I went and it was like whatever it was, it was my, it was what I thought it was. It was what I thought it could be. It was like I was in the movie Fame. Like we were dancing on tables at lunchtime and singing and people were meeting up to, you know, scene study and choreographed dances. And there were, you know, it was just. It wasn't campy. It was more like. It was more like college, I guess. But it was sleepaway camp, and I had the best time ever, and I learned so much. And I really did enjoy not having to get into a car and not having to go, you know, far. And you had all your meals together and these were your ride or dies. And the craziest thing was my camp best friend that came out of that was named Jenny, and she lived. I lived in Los Angeles, and she lived in Rye, New York, which was very exotic to me. And we stayed friends for so long and followed each other through all sorts of different parts of life and then kind of lost touch. And I was watching TV because everybody was saying that they really liked this show called Jane the Virgin. It was. I don't know when it was, but it was a while ago. And I'm watching it and I'm looking at the titles, and I was like, jenny. And Jenny Snyder Ehrman is. Has become. And now we're in touch again. But she is, like this huge producer and showrunner. She did Jane the Virgin. She does Matlock now. She's. She's incredible. And she's. She's still my best friend from Camp Jenny. And we.
[10:35]
A
Oh, my God, that's so cute.
[10:37]
B
We're so cute girls.
[10:39]
A
Wait, I do have a comment on this, because I do think, okay, I. Growing up, I did not do sports. I did theater. There is something if you are a theater kid or you or you're wondering what it's like that, like, I know people make fun of it, but that, like, we're in theater together and it's like, you're all yummy with everybody. It's real.
[11:01]
B
I know it's real.
[11:03]
A
I don't know what it is that. That chemistry of, like, theater kids together doing it.
[11:08]
B
It's the vulnerability. Just if the vulnerability is so bonding because you don't even have to call
[11:15]
A
performing in front of, like, what is that? Like, we're all, like. And we're all, like, so supported. I mean, it really is because you're cracking yourself open.
[11:23]
B
You're cracking yourself open, and you're trying, you know, you're daring greatly. You're. You have. You in your mind, even though you probably not really. You have. You have. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose, so you just go. Go for it. And when you go for it, if you make a mistake, chances are you're Gonna learn. And if you don't make a mistake, you are on top of the world. Like the feeling that you have when you, like for an athlete, I mean, I don't. For a gymnast, it's like sticking the landing. Or when you know you've done a scene, you know, that you've been working on in your class and then you do it and you see the audience have the reaction that you wanted to have. Like, there's, there's no greater high. You're just like, you're electric. You just feel so.
[12:07]
A
Yeah.
[12:07]
B
Incredible. And so I think that when you have that with a group of people and you're doing it day in, day out, you just. How could you not be very bonded?
[12:18]
A
Okay, I take it back. That would have been my favorite camp. Screw the canoes, screw the zipline.
[12:23]
B
Yeah.
[12:24]
A
Camilla, little Camilla would have loved theater camp.
[12:27]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I actually think Poppy would love theater
[12:31]
A
and I would love that.
[12:33]
B
That's why she would.
[12:35]
A
She's the right age now. Yeah.
[12:37]
B
Yeah.
[12:38]
A
Well, a little, like, I do think that little bit older, like, tweeny age
[12:41]
B
that you're saying you're gonna have to anti Camilla. This one. You're gonna have to pull her aside
[12:46]
A
and be like, so I'm gonna listen. I got pop star's cell phone number. I do think American camps, it's like, this is just my opinion. People are gonna come at me in the comments. It's. They're too long. You don't need a six week away from mom and dad camp.
[13:01]
B
Okay. But here's what I think is actually where you can discern what your path should be. And it goes. This is going to go back to Hayden. I, I think that anyone who goes to sleepaway camp, any child that goes to sleepaway camp, I believe that it actually has to start with that child wanting to go. And if your child wants to go, then I think you try it. And you don't pick the seven week camp. You pick the one week sleepaway camp, the two week sleepaway camp. And I have so much respect for the ones that are like, yeah, I'll go and not even know anyone. Right. But I also think it might be nice to go with a friend, you know, have a little camaraderie.
[13:44]
A
There's no way in hell Hayden's going without a friend. No.
[13:48]
B
Yeah. Okay.
[13:48]
A
So she's not that kid, which is amazing. I was not that kid either.
[13:53]
B
If they want to go, I think that sleepaway camp actually, and, and it's expensive. I think that it's a gift. I genuinely think that it's a gift if you want to go and. And your parents, you know, can. Can afford to send you. I think it's a gift. I just. It's not a gift that I want.
[14:12]
A
Okay, well, Josie wanted to go.
[14:15]
B
She wanted. She didn't want to go. She wanted to go. She. She. There was a lot of flip flopping and then she got really excited about it. And then, you know, notoriously, the first week is, you know, laden with homesickness. And from what I hear from other people, you're just meant to push through that and then the second week gets better. It was meant to be something I don't.
[14:35]
A
Are you allowed to like. Right. See, this is what I don't like to like. I would love her to like, be able to take a little apple watch or something, but they're like no communication. We only send mail by pigeons. It's like, why. Why would I like to know that they're fine? I think it would help.
[14:51]
B
Oh, no, I don't think it does. I think that, that. I think it keeps. That it's. It keeps that tethering to home. And I think when you're at camp, you kind of got to be. You got to. You can't go half camp. You got to go full camp. You are.
[15:04]
A
But I feel like you are full camp. Like, if you had gotten to be able to call your mom every night, you might have enjoyed sleeping.
[15:11]
B
No, I think, I think that when you're truly homesick, having the connection again actually makes the longing worse.
[15:19]
A
I don't know. I think, I disagree. I think I would feel better if I was like, I just get to talk to her later tonight so that you could. Because sometimes you need the reassurance, right? And you need you. I would need. I would have needed my mom to be like, come on, you got this. Don't worry. There's nothing going on at home. It's super boring. See how you're. You know.
[15:37]
B
But maybe.
[15:37]
A
But maybe that's also a kid to kid. A kid to kid basis situation right now. Goes for a sleepover. She needs to. She needs to have a little nighttime call with me. Even if it's like, hey, it's going great. Gotta go.
[15:52]
B
Yeah.
[15:52]
A
It's like she still needs to give me a little call.
[15:56]
B
Yeah. Well, I'm just gonna stick with. I'm stick with my original sentiment. If your kid wants to go to camp, then I think they go to camp.
[16:03]
A
They go full.
[16:03]
B
And then they're gonna come back and say, Whether or not they liked it or not. And there's. I know plenty of kids who you go for the first, you know, little moment, and they become hardcore campers, and then they want to go every year, and then they, you know, end up staying the whole summer. And for a lot of parents, they. I think it's kind of a little bit bananas that, like, think about your school year. Like, you. There's a place that the kids go all day long, and in the summer, you. You just don't. Like.
[16:35]
A
What are your. If.
[16:36]
B
If your parents have jobs, what are you supposed to do? And, I mean, I know what I did. I was like, you know, I stayed in AC and I watched the soap operas with my grandma and ate Haagen Dazs out of the carton. That's what I did.
[16:49]
A
Finally dream.
[16:52]
B
Exactly. Why would you try and pry me from that situation and send me love? That campground was the best. Pulling the beautiful little Montel Williams, restless little. You are the father as the World Turns. All of it. And then we wrap up the evening with Wheel of Fortune. It was amazing.
[17:08]
A
Incredible.
[17:09]
B
I could not go outside all day long.
[17:11]
A
I'm not homesick at Grandma's.
[17:13]
B
This is never.
[17:15]
A
But I can tell you something.
[17:16]
B
Yeah.
[17:17]
A
It's a pr. It's. It's. It's. You're fortunate to go to Grandma's.
[17:20]
B
Yes.
[17:20]
A
I did not have Grandma's to go to, and a lot of people do not have a Grandma's to go to.
[17:25]
B
This is my point. So camp becomes the thing that you go to. And if you love it, I say, great. And if you don't. I don't know. I have to say. And Luke was bringing this up the other day, because Luke was like, I don't remember. I don't remember you, like, giving me a big choice in this matter. It was like I was going to camp, and it feels like Josie's got all these choices. Like, typical.
[17:43]
A
Well, what was Joyce's. What. What happened with Josie? So she went to camp, and she was only able to communicate with the pigeon letters. And then what happened?
[17:52]
B
And it's.
[17:52]
A
Well.
[17:53]
B
And they also have it set up. It was. It's a. It's a. What was a wonderful camp. They did the best they could. She was just. She was just homesick. She was homesick, and she couldn't. And then it was a little bit like.
[18:03]
A
Did you get. Did you get a response that was
[18:05]
B
like, I miss you. I love you. I miss you. I want to come home. I'm so sorry, because I know I was so heartbre. Because it was like, I know that, you know, that you all put so much time and effort and money into this, but I'm just so very, very sad and very, very missing my family. And I just really don't want to be here anymore. So if you could get here in, like, I'm about 30 minutes, that would be great. I'll be standing by the front, and I'll pack up my bunk. I'll pack up my bunk, and we'll be ready to go. It was totally a we ride it dawn moment. I mean, she was calling and she was. And. And. And. And I. You know, you. You sort of, like, check in with yourself, and you're like, listen, you have to let your kids be in tough stuff and look at them and be like, just like what you said your mom would say, like, you got this. You can do this. Right? It's. I believe in you. You can do this.
[18:50]
A
I have a question about this, because I think probably there's a ton of people going through this this summer. You get the first letter. The first letter is like, hey, great. Loved it. Been here an hour. I'm over it. Come and get me now. How many times do you let the letters that are like SOS that signal to the sky? Like, how many times are you.
[19:09]
B
Well, that was what was different about this camp than the. The others that Luke and even Poppy went to, which was that they did not have the connectivity piece. They didn't have the app where you could, like, you know, this one was where, you know, if there was a picture taken of her at camp, they did the facial recognition, and you and the app, you'd get a notification like, there's a new picture of Josie. And then we'd all sit around pissed.
[19:31]
A
In every picture, was she just looking at the camera?
[19:33]
B
Well, that was the funny part. We all looked at her and we were like. And she was doing her smile, but. But it was definitely her happy ish. It was not happy. It was happy ish. But then we were sort of like, it's gonna. It's gonna get better. It's gonna get better. And. And then it. It just didn't. And. And I think that there was a little bit of, you know, she went with friends who were sort of having a similar experience of wanting to go home. And then it was a little bit like. Then once they think it's.
[20:02]
A
It went down like dominoes.
[20:03]
B
It did. Because once they think it's possible, then you're. Then your hoes, and it's almost impossible As a parent, to be like, I see your extreme sadness and homesickness and I'm going to ignore it.
[20:17]
A
Yeah.
[20:18]
B
Or I'm just gonna say, no, I'm not picking you up.
[20:20]
A
Or.
[20:20]
B
It was really. I have to say, it was really tough. I mean, you know, it was, it was tough. And it was just. Yeah, it was tough. And then, and then of course, I got myself laughing because I was like. Then it became, you know, like, was I hang gliding in? Was it, Was it a. Was I. Was I going to chop her in? Was I going to. It was going to be a full. Under the, under the COVID of night extraction.
[20:41]
A
Tom Cruise.
[20:42]
B
Yeah, I was, I was mission. I was like, I was, I was going to. Yeah. Yeah.
[20:46]
A
How many days did she last?
[20:47]
B
8.
[20:49]
A
That's a long time to. If you're, I think if you're not feeling it by day eight.
[20:53]
B
Yeah.
[20:53]
A
Like it's extraction time.
[20:55]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
[20:55]
A
That seems really fair.
[20:57]
B
Yeah. And my. And she's just a sweet, sweet, sweet human. And she actually really is very in touch with her feelings and she was so happy. And she got in the car and I'm sitting in the front and we had like the full download and we're processing. And. And I did say to her, and I had said to her the whole time, I was like, listen. Oh, that's what I did. I did send her a letter. That was the firm. The firm. The firm mom letter that was listening. Courage is being scared and doing it anyway. So being scared is not the thing to. To worry about right now. Be scared. That's okay. Be scared. Find your courage. Do it anyway. And don't worry about the time or money or whatever. Like, that's, that's our, that's the adult's job. And we, we do things and we, we manage ourselves and we create opportunities and then they. Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. So don't worry about that. Like, check. Don't worry about us. Find your courage and then do me a favor. Don't worry about getting through the next three weeks. Worry about getting. Or think about getting through tomorrow. And like, tomorrow do something a little different. Spend a little time with someone else instead of that. Like, try. Because I think what you're trying to say to your kids is try. Like, I don't. Because I only care that you try. And, and, and, and the kids are put in all these different situations where, you know, all day long. And it's hard. I think it's hard to be a kid. You know, like all the negotiations and your brain developing at warp speed and everything else. And it's like, it's. It's hard to be a kid, and it's hard to navigate so much, you know, all at once and. And be so young. And so I just sort of invited her to understand that it was hard to do it anyway, and then. And then see how she felt. Um, and. And also I think that the thing that is really important for me or that I hope that. That the kids know, is, like, you're given these opportunities, but the art, like, love and care of you doesn't. Isn't actually focused on the outcome. You know, like, if you get first or tenth, there'll be a different feeling that comes with those two placements. Right. For you, but it won't. It won't be for me. You know, like, that's. You tried. So anyways, it was just. It was. She tried, and it wasn't her thing. And so we. In the car, we. We talked a lot about that. Because it didn't. Because I didn't want it to be. I didn't want her to walk away feeling like she failed.
[23:32]
A
Because in just a week.
[23:34]
B
Yeah. Well, I was focused on, like, that's a success.
[23:38]
A
Totally.
[23:38]
B
Anyways, she got over it. Then we were like, you know, listening to, like, you know, Up With People rock and having a great old time. And then I hear her little voice in the back seat say, mom, can you turn down the music for a second? And I said, yeah. And I turned down the music, and I turned around, and her little face, she is. Oh, my God, it'll make me cry. She's full weeping. And she looks at me and she says, I'm just so happy to be home. I was like, well, I'm really happy. I mean, because of course. I mean, like, of course I missed her, but it wasn't. It was. It wasn't about me. This was about her.
[24:18]
A
So I do have to say that, like, your. Your home life and her home life with her sisters and her brother, like, it is so yummy and cozy.
[24:31]
B
Yeah.
[24:31]
A
That it would be hard to leave. I understand why it'd be hard to leave that.
[24:36]
B
Yeah.
[24:37]
A
And.
[24:38]
B
And she's a family girl, you know, she really loves.
[24:41]
A
Yeah.
[24:41]
B
You know, and she's the. She's the youngest, so she's a little caboose. She, like, you know, and she's always. She's. She's definitely. Definitely like the. The. The sort of like, unassuming mayor. Like, she. She just, like, she knows everything because she's sitting there I mean, absolutely. Like, whenever anybody's like, where's the. She's like, here it is. Because she's sitting there watching and looking and listening, and she's, like, figuring out her. Her how. How to slide in. And we're in a weird summer because the biggers are starting to, like, bigger, and they want to go do other stuff, and it's not where she's at. And so wait, when.
[25:17]
A
When does, like, the urge to go to sleepaway camp, like, stop. Is Poppy, like, no, I'm not going to sleep away camp.
[25:23]
B
Poppy went to sleepaway camp one time in her life. It was the most miserable experience of her life, according to her. She hated every single second of it. She cried herself. Wait, what's the pot?
[25:32]
A
Now I have to have the Poppy story. Eve, too. Did Eve go?
[25:36]
B
Eve was like. Eve's Eve. It was like. Was it my favorite? No. Was it my least favorite? No. Like, Eve just is like, I got it done.
[25:47]
A
Yeah, I checked.
[25:48]
B
I checked the box.
[25:49]
A
What was poppy story?
[25:51]
B
Um.
[25:53]
A
Oh, God.
[25:55]
B
Poppy went with Eve. And it was a camp in Maine. And by the way, I, I, I. There's nowhere in Maine that's easy to get to. Have you ever tried to go to Maine?
[26:06]
A
No, but I want to. Like, in my dreams. I'm in Maine because it's one of
[26:10]
B
the most beautiful places on the planet. And I think probably the reason it remains the most beautiful one of the most beautiful places on the planet is because we haven't ruined it by a bunch of people going there because it's nearly impossible to get to.
[26:22]
A
Okay?
[26:22]
B
So you have to take, like, a plane to a bus, to a ferry,
[26:25]
A
to a. Oh, my God.
[26:27]
B
Paddleboard to a canoe to it. It's unbelievable. Yes. Yes. It was Covid. It was like the girls were gonna go up to camp. They were gonna have a normal summer because it had been so not normal. And they went. And Poppy, like, almost. Honestly, Poppy, from the minute we got there, was allergic to camp. She went to go put on the little. The life preserver that you had to wear to go from the boys camp, where we dropped Luke off, to the girls camp. And it was over her shirt. And during the course of the eight minute boat ride, her entire body burst out in hives. And she was smiling because she was so excited about this idea of camp. But at the same time, her body was like comedy movie. It had been lit up. It was on fire with hives. And I'm like, you know me. So I'm like, it's okay.
[27:17]
A
We're Gonna.
[27:18]
B
We're gonna fix problems. We got this, like, no big deal. There's a camp store. We're gonna get a new T shirt. Must be your T shirt that she's worn 95 times in her life and not made her a little better. Yeah. We're just gonna be fine. It'll be fine. So I. And I'm still. And I know I'm about to leave her, which is going to be hard. And so we take off the. Anyways, it was the first day of 10 days, maybe 14 days that she did not like. So. Yeah. So. And then we. But it was wild because we. We picked her up and she had all these amazing stories, and then the day after she got home, she was like, actually, everything I told you when you picked me up was just because I was so happy to be home, and I hated every single second of that. And I will never go back to sleepaway camp in my life. And we were like, oh, my.
[27:58]
A
Like, she was riding the high. Yeah. Of being picked up. So she was like, we did this and this. And then it's. Overnight it sunk in that she absolutely hit a camp.
[28:06]
B
Or it was like Stockholm syndrome. Like, maybe they just convinced her that it was, like, it was great. But then once that wore, the real story was there, and she was like, absolutely not. So maybe Josephine was like, you know, my sister's not a sleepy person. Maybe I'm not a sleepwear person. So anyways, all I know is sleepaway camp turned into. For the.
[28:25]
A
The Capshaw kids.
[28:27]
B
These. These. No, these little Gavigans do not want to do that.
[28:31]
A
They don't wanna. They don't want to do it.
[28:33]
B
Yeah, they're good. So what do you think about Hayden? I mean, does that. Does that inform anything for you?
[28:38]
A
I mean, I think that. To be honest, I think she'll have a similar experience. I think that she really wants to go. I think she likes the idea of going. And she's heard stories. I think the reality of it is going to be really tough for her. Both my kids are big homebodies, too. They love being home. They love being cozy. They love, like, a movie night with the pot. You know, like, there's love, the family and the dogs, and they miss it. All right. I. I find this such an interesting conversation because sleepovers. Just sleeping over at a friend's house, which we all did when we were younger, has become such a polarizing topic of, like, are you now letting your kids do it or not? And what I've seen online, which is like a Little confusing to me is that there's people that are like, absolutely, I do not let my kid have a sleepover, but I'll let them go to sleepaway camp. Like, I'm okay with that. My, my problem is actually the opposite. With families that I think that I really know and trust me, I'm okay. But with sleepaway camp, that's where my like safety paranoia alert as a parent, like, goes off. There's so many kids there. There's counselors. How do they know everyone's safe? Like background checks are they doing on these five year olds? It's less whether she is having fun. It's whether, like, God, you just brought
[29:52]
B
out so much anxiety in me. Yes, yes.
[29:54]
A
All those things that, that's the part that like, I stress about.
[29:57]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. I don't. Do you think that our parents ever thought about safety and sleepovers?
[30:06]
A
I don't think my, I don't think my parents thought about safety and sleepovers. My mom definitely thought about safety in that way, but I just didn't. I think the sleepover thing just didn't register. And I understand, but I find it interesting when I see people saying, and it's a lot, it seems like a lot of people that are like, sleepovers, absolutely fucking not. But sleepaway camp, like, that's fine.
[30:26]
B
So interesting.
[30:27]
A
Yeah, I, with.
[30:28]
B
I remember when Luke started having sleepovers. I think I only did it once, but I remember asking like, if there were weapons in the house.
[30:37]
A
That's not a weird thing.
[30:38]
B
Yeah.
[30:38]
A
I like to go in there like I'm the FBI and I'm like, do
[30:43]
B
you do like a pre visit?
[30:44]
A
I don't. I, I'm. I can sniff it out in the moment. You know what I mean? Like, Hayden's showing up with a sleeping bag. I'm like casing the joint.
[30:51]
B
I just see you in like extreme oversized Ray Bans and like arms crossed. Just kind of strolling through the helm.
[30:59]
A
Strolling through, strolling through. If I could bring my own flashlight to do one of these.
[31:03]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would.
[31:05]
A
Yeah, I, I understand. For your own safety, to make that choice for your family. I get that.
[31:11]
B
Well, I guess. What do you all think?
[31:13]
A
But this is when I'm like, then this transfers to me to like sleepaway camp. Like, okay, there's like, am I trusting these, what, 18 year old kids? I know with my kids.
[31:24]
B
Like, but then I'm like, there's danger everywhere. And if you, if I, if I go down that rabbit hole, then I'm not Then my. Then I'm not doing anything, and neither are any of my kids 100%, and I can't do that.
[31:35]
A
I have to. This is what I have to reckon with as a parent because I'm like, I don't want to take away the potential of her having this incredible time at sleepaway camp.
[31:44]
B
Yeah, yeah.
[31:45]
A
And. And I'm definitely choosy about sleepovers, and they've been fewer and far between. And I think it's different when you're, like, a teenager and you're, like, hanging out and you're 16 and you're going over at your friend's house. But I don't. I also don't want her to miss out on things because I've decided that I'm an investigator in Dateline and I need a case to join out.
[32:08]
B
Right, right, right, right. I know, I know. I. I don't know. I don't know. When you start pulling your.
[32:14]
A
I genuinely want to hear from everybody in the. In this because I, I think I need, like, a collective conversation on it because I don't know what's up, what's down, what's right, what's wrong, where. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't tell if I'm paranoid or if, like, camp really is, like. No, that is the safer way to, like, for kids to go have fun in a sleepover situation.
[32:36]
B
Yeah. I don't know. Well, and I think the sleepaway. The very compelling part of sleepaway camp in this day and age is that it's screen free. It's. That it's, it's, you know, that you're not. That you're not. You're gonna have a chance to just be and have fun. And it's all baked in there on one campus. And so all of your opportunities for fun are relational and with real people. And that's really exciting to some kids. I just went on a roller coaster of anxiety with talking about all those different variables. And your dateline really is showing through.
[33:10]
A
I know, I know.
[33:11]
B
Dateline is like.
[33:12]
A
But, like, these are the things that I think about. I'm riding at dawn to case the joint of the camp.
[33:17]
B
Like, well, here we are.
[33:19]
A
Here we are. I mean, we did. This is us. It's been a roller coaster, you guys. Listen, I'm. I'm letting people in on, like, my own parenting insecurities on this, and I. And I don't want to prevent her from not having these experiences. And especially when she's telling me she's ready. I don't I truly don't think she's ready, but I think next summer she could be ready. And I'm gonna have to, like, seriously just tequila my way through it.
[33:46]
B
No, you're gonna find a really great place, and you're gonna. And you're gonna ask all the questions, and there are some, you know, some really wonderful sleepaway camps, and you're just gonna do. You're gonna do your homework, and you're gonna be the great mom that you are, and you're gonna set her up for success, and then you're gonna see what happens.
[34:01]
A
Yeah.
[34:03]
B
And there might be.
[34:04]
A
Maybe I need, like, a girls trip with you at the same time. I drop her off, and then, like, we head to, like, somewhere, and, you know, I'm with you, and I can. You can unspiral me.
[34:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I. I remember. I'm. I'm sure I've talked about this with you before, but I remember maybe it was like, 10 or 12 years ago, this book came out called how to Raise an Adult, and it rocked me because it really is. It's an incredible book, but it's really about, like, even though there are babies and there are. There are little. Our little beings, and there are children forever, they're. We're raising them to be adults and to be on their own. And so there are all these just, like, threshold moments where they have an opportunity to test themselves and then be able to trust themselves more because they know they can do something that's hard and. Or separate. And. And. And. And that's wonderful. And that's what you really want, you know, for them.
[35:12]
A
Yeah, I love it. I just remembered that, like, this is part of, like, helping them fly from the nest. Talk to me about this next summer.
[35:21]
B
Just remind me. I know it.
[35:23]
A
Everyone, we want to hear from you guys. I actually, really, seriously, like, I need to hear from you guys. I need to hear from the collective. I want to hear your stories. I want to know how your kids are feeling when they come back. Are you guys having the same, like, spiraling that I'm having when they leave or the thoughts of them leaving, or,
[35:39]
B
by the way, if we've got some campers out there, please tell us all the ways in which camp has made your life.
[35:46]
A
Yes.
[35:46]
B
Wonderful, horrible, positive, negative, and neutral.
[35:49]
A
Give it to us 100%.

Summary6 min read

We Ride at Dawn (ish) — “Parent Trap: Sleepaway Camps”

Hosted by Jessica Capshaw & Camilla Luddington
Episode Date: July 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This candid episode sees Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington navigating the hot-button topic of sleepaway camps: the childhood rite of passage, its emotional roller coasters, and the anxieties it triggers for parents and kids alike. Both hosts share personal stories—hilarious, harrowing, and heartwarming—about summer camps past and present, their own children’s experiences, and the deeply personal calculus every family makes about readiness, independence, and safety.

Tone: Warm, funny, and honest, laced with nostalgia and very real parenting anxieties.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Surviving Summer (00:03–02:53)

Opening banter about the “face-of-the-fucking-sun” heat and Jessica’s paper towel armpit trick to combat summer sweat.
- Memorable moment: Camilla mistakes Jessica’s underarm paper towels for “armpit accessories.”
Early pivot to the summer theme: kids at camp (day and sleepaway), jobs, and the seasons shifting too quickly.
- Jessica recounts her early start in working: “I had a job as soon as I could get a job, as soon as I could get the work permit.” (03:08, Jessica)

The “Parent Trap” Camp Dream vs. Reality (03:55–07:11)

Camilla discusses her daughter Hayden’s wish to attend sleepaway camp, wrestling between her child’s desire and her own (the parent’s) not being ready.
- Hayden’s push comes from seeing friends go, even though Camilla thinks she isn’t ready: “She’s not that kid though...I am not ready. And I’m not ready for so many reasons.” (04:37, Camilla)
Camilla’s own childhood dreams of American-style “Parent Trap” camp (canoes, archery, cabins)—the reality: “Bible camp” in England with no canoes and plenty of disappointment.
- “I did not want [that]. I wanted Parent Trap.” (06:26, Camilla)
Jessica admits camp experiences are often not a straight line—some kids love it, others don’t.

Nostalgia & Camp Friendships (09:08–12:17)

Jessica found her stride at a six-week summer arts program, feeling mature, independent, and creatively fulfilled.
- This camp fostered bonds: “You’re all, like, so supported. It really is because you’re cracking yourself open.” (11:15, Camilla)
Notable relationship: Jessica remains in touch with her camp bestie, now showrunner Jenny Snyder Urman.
- “She's still my best friend from Camp Jenny.” (10:35, Jessica)
Camilla wishes she’d gone to theater camp (“Screw the canoes, screw the zipline...little Camilla would have loved theater camp.” [12:22])

Sleepaway Camp: Who’s It Really For? (13:01–17:20)

Key insight: Sleepaway camp must be child-driven. “If your child wants to go, then I think you try it. And you don’t pick the seven-week camp.” (13:01, Jessica)
- Small, friend-inclusive, shorter experiences are best for first-timers. Most kids aren’t likely to attend alone.
Parents reflect on their own summers when not at camp—Jessica relished “soap operas with my grandma and Haagen Dazs out of the carton.” (16:48)
The privilege of having options: Many kids don’t have family caretakers nearby—camp fills that gap.

The Extraction Story: When It Doesn't Work Out (17:43–24:41)

Jessica shares the saga of her daughter Josie’s sleepaway camp:
- Homesickness kicked in after the first week, despite initial excitement.
- Camp enforced minimal parent contact—Jessica sees pros and cons (“When you’re truly homesick, having the connection again actually makes the longing worse.” [15:11])
- Josie’s emotional letters and lackluster “happy-ish” photos signaled real distress: “I miss you. I love you. I want to come home. If you could get here in, like, about thirty minutes, that would be great.” (18:05)
- Jessica describes plotting “extraction,” joking about hang-gliding in “full Mission Impossible,” and ultimately extracting Josie after eight days.
  - “If you're not feeling it by day eight...it's extraction time.” (20:53, Camilla)
- Jessica’s take: The key is not to let kids feel like failures; success is in trying.
  - “The art, like, love and care of you isn’t actually focused on the outcome...You tried. So anyways, she tried, and it wasn’t her thing.” (23:12, Jessica)
- Heartfelt moment: Josie weeps in relief upon returning home, “I’m just so happy to be home.” (23:31, Jessica)

Different Kids, Different Experiences (25:16–28:31)

Jessica retells the stories of her other children:
- Poppy (went with sister Eve): “It was the most miserable experience of her life...She cried herself.” (25:23)
- Eve was indifferent (“Was it my favorite? No. Was it my least favorite? No. Like, Eve just is like, I got it done.” [25:36])
- Poppy’s “allergic to camp” story includes literal hives on arrival at a Maine camp. Despite trying to “fix” it, nothing worked—she hated every moment. After return, admits: “Everything I told you when you picked me up was just because I was so happy to be home, and I hated every single second.” (27:58)

Parental Anxieties: Safety and Readiness (28:38–33:46)

Camilla raises a key parenting anxiety: ironically, some parents ban sleepovers but are fine with sleepaway camp. She feels inversely, citing safety and background check worries.
- “That’s the part that, like, I stress about.” (29:56, Camilla)
Jessica and Camilla recall their parents being less paranoid about safety, musing over their own hyper-vigilance casing sleepover “like the FBI.”
- “You do like a pre visit?” (30:43, Jessica)
- “I like to go in there like I’m the FBI.” (30:38, Camilla)

Balancing Protection and Independence (33:09–35:49)

The pull between fear and letting children grow:
- Camilla: “I don’t want to take away the potential of her having this incredible time at sleepaway camp.” (31:34)
Jessica summarizes the reward of camp: “The very compelling part...is that it’s screen-free. All of your opportunities for fun are relational and with real people.” (32:35)
Camilla reflects on whether she’s too anxious, wants collective advice from listeners.

Closing Reflection & Call for Community Stories (35:11–35:49)

Jessica references “How to Raise an Adult,” reinforcing that parenting’s aim is to foster independence through small but challenging “threshold moments.”
- “We’re raising them to be adults and to be on their own...so there are all these threshold moments where they have an opportunity to test themselves.” (35:11, Jessica)
Both hosts solicit advice and stories from listeners about camp—good, bad, or neutral.

Notable Quotes & Moments With Timestamps

On camp readiness:

“If your child wants to go, then I think you try it. And you don’t pick the seven-week camp...I have so much respect for the ones that are like, yeah, I’ll go and not even know anyone.” (13:01, Jessica)
On parenting anxieties:

“My problem is actually the opposite. With families that I think I really know and trust, maybe I’m okay. But with sleepaway camp, safety paranoia alert as a parent goes off.” (29:39, Camilla)
On childhood nostalgia:

“The best camp was watching soap operas with my grandma and eating Haagen Dazs out of the carton.” (16:48, Jessica)
On the heartbreak and extraction:

“I miss you...I’m just so very, very sad and very, very missing my family. If you could get here in, like, thirty minutes, that would be great.” (18:05, Jessica as Josie)

“I’m just so happy to be home.” (23:31, Josie — relayed by Jessica)
On letting kids fail and try:

“You tried. So anyways, she tried, and it wasn’t her thing...I didn’t want her to walk away feeling like she failed.” (23:12, Jessica)
On collective parenting struggle:

“I genuinely want to hear from everybody in this...I can’t tell if I’m paranoid or if camp really is the safer way for kids to have fun.” (32:13, Camilla)

Listener Call to Action

Both hosts encourage community engagement:

Send in stories, advice, and experiences about sleepaway camp—especially about readiness, homesickness, safety concerns, or why camp was pivotal (or not).
Camilla: “I need to hear from the collective. I want to know: are you guys having the same spiraling that I’m having?” (35:22)

In Essence:
A heartfelt, refreshingly honest, and often funny conversation that explores how much of camp is about a child’s readiness versus a parent’s letting go. Parenting, they remind us, is less about outcomes and more about brave attempts—by both kids and parents—to do something new...and maybe, to just survive the summer intact.

Loading summary

Transcript219 lines

[00:00]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
[00:03]
B
I'm Jessica Capshaw.
[00:04]
A
And I'm Camilla Ludington. And welcome to another episode of We Ride Adonis. Jessica, you're looking so summery today.
[00:14]
B
Oh, my gosh. It's because it's hotter than the face of the fucking sun out there. It is hot. It is the kind of New York hot where I. Which has happened. If you just saw me before I sat down, it's like, it's so hot that you have to kind of like, even if you wear deodorant, you have to get some paper towels every once in a while and just like. Yeah, put them under there. Like, put your. Clap your wings down, secure the paper towel, and just let it stay there for a minute.
[00:38]
A
Yeah. I just need people to know that when Jessica first came on the lazumi. Yeah. I was like, how is that? How does that dress work? And I didn't realize those were just two paper towels sprawling out of the armpits. I was like, are those straps? Like, what are those? Where can I buy that?
[00:54]
B
No, no, no. They were. They're. They're armpit. Their armpit accessories. No, I don't know what to tell you about that. Yeah, no, it's really hot. It's summer. It's. Is it midsummer yet?
[01:08]
A
Listen, for me, and I've seen this online. I'm. I. I was very encouraged to see that people were like, July 5th, summer's done.
[01:15]
B
I was like, great, I'm ready for Halloween.
[01:18]
A
But it's Summerween.
[01:20]
B
Oh, I can't with Halloween. I'm not there. I can't just stop you. No.
[01:24]
A
Jessica, do you know what I did, like, yesterday just to make myself feel like your face.
[01:28]
B
Oh, gosh.
[01:30]
A
Just like, I didn't decorate for Halloween.
[01:33]
B
I'm worried you're gonna say you did.
[01:35]
A
I did go to Michael's, literally, just to walk around because our stuff is out. It's almost like. It's like taking a Xanax.
[01:42]
B
Like, foreplay for you.
[01:44]
A
Xanax. I do need to walk around Michael's to see the Halloween decor.
[01:47]
B
I think it's like, foreplay. I think you just get yourself a little excited.
[01:51]
A
Yeah, it is a little foreplay.
[01:53]
B
It's a little exciting. You just, like, let you. You know, it's a couple smooches. It's a little kissing, a little kiss. And then when you. When you turn the corner and you go down row, aisle six, and it has just, like, a couple of Halloween things, it's like. Yeah, it's like some heavy Petting.
[02:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. Yeah, yeah, sure.
[02:13]
B
It goes. But you're not ready to go all the way.
[02:17]
A
I mean, to be honest, can I
[02:19]
B
tell you, I am ready, though. I was going to say I'm ready to go all the way and I'm not ready for you to go all the way.
[02:24]
A
I know. I don't think a lot of people are, but I'm just telling you that I am someone who's like, let's go close off.
[02:29]
B
I was going to say clothes on. It's a clothes on. Makeup for me. Foreplay. It's a foreplay.
[02:34]
A
If you ready. If you go out. When you go out and you see some fall Halloween stuff, does it not excite you? Because I do know it's your favorite season. No, spring is actually. But like, I do know you love fall.
[02:42]
B
I do love fall. But I told it. But you and I are we part ways about Halloween? It's just what it is. Anyways, let's get back to summer and armpit sweat.
[02:54]
A
Okay.
[02:54]
B
It's very hot. I guess we are in the middle of it. Have I. I've. There's been camp. There's been jobs. I have kids that are old enough to have jobs and who has a job? Well, Luke has been working for a long time. He was very. Yeah. I don't know if you know this about me. I had a job as soon as I could get a job as soon as I could get the work permit. When you're 15 or whatever because you have to get a special permit. I had a job. I was hostessing at Chin Chin on Salmon Sani Boulevard.
[03:26]
A
No, you were not a hostess.
[03:28]
B
Yes, I was. Yes, I was. I loved it so much. I loved. I wanted to make my own money. I wanted the responsibility. I wanted all of that. So anyways, evidently that's in the jeans there. And Luke got a job on a. On a charter fishing boat, like on a day tripper because he the most passionate and most talented sport fisherman. So here we are, mid summer. We've got kids going to camp. Are yours is in camp?
[03:56]
A
Yes, they are in camp. And Hayden, we've had sort of like not an argument, but there's been a lot of discussion because she's very frustrated with me this summer. Oh, she wants. She's nine and she wants to go to sleepaway camp. And it's been a big topic of conversation because some of her friends are. Her other friends are going from her school and there's a lot that are not. And I've put Her in normal day camps, the art camp, the drama, whatever it is. Right now she's off to this other camp in the hills, and they do all the things they do, the archery and all that stuff. Right. But she's like, I'm ready. I don't think she's ready. But I also know that I. I am not ready. And I'm not ready for so many reasons. And I think that I want to definitely get into it because there's a little discourse online about sleepaway camp. But I know that Josie went to sleepaway camp. Yes, I know, because I talked to you on a very long drive.
[05:02]
B
Yes. When? Yeah, I did. When I very long drive to go get there.
[05:08]
A
I have five hours to talk. Usually we're like. We have 15 minutes. You're like, I have an entire day
[05:15]
B
to talk about my extraction plan for Josie.
[05:20]
A
Yeah. Can you tell us about the extraction?
[05:22]
B
Well, okay. I mean, listen, I think we can go back and forth on this one. First question I have, let's get curious. Were you a sleepaway camp person? Did you enjoy. Did you go to one and did you enjoy it? I was.
[05:33]
A
Okay, listen, I wanted to go to sleepaway camp so bad in America. I dreamt I saw. Because we, like, listen, we, like, are feeding on American media all the time. Right.
[05:46]
B
To find your long lost twin sister, like, in the parent trap.
[05:49]
A
Exactly. Exactly. And I was gonna find her. And that camp was Camp America. This is the only name of the camp that I ever knew in my life and that they were gonna send me to Camp America. And there'd be canoes and archery, and I'd be in, like, a little wood cabin and. And, like, making friends. And I wanted Americana. And my parents said, you know what? You do get to go to camp here in England.
[06:15]
B
Oh, great.
[06:15]
A
It's gonna be a Bible camp. Oh, and let me tell you. Let me tell you. There were new canoes at that camp. There was no archery. I was waiting. No, I wanted the parent trap.
[06:27]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
[06:27]
A
I did not want.
[06:28]
B
And then send you out. Like, maybe you could build an ark. It was like church tinkering church for a week.
[06:33]
A
You know, I thought I would be up in a tree. Yeah. You know, zip lining.
[06:39]
B
Right. But you weren't.
[06:41]
A
We weren't. But the zip lining, archery, canoeing camps, that's what Hayden wants to go to. Like, that is. And so I understand that urge.
[06:53]
B
Yeah.
[06:53]
A
Like, I. By the way, I was the kid that always wanted to go to boarding school.
[06:57]
B
Yep.
[06:57]
A
I was all about sleeping away from home. She's not that kid though. And so that's where this is like a little, it's just a little different. But then I don't know. But, but I know that Josie went.
[07:11]
B
I. Yes, I know. And, and it's just not a straight line for most. I think it is for some, but I just don't think it is for most.
[07:19]
A
Okay, so then my question back to you is, did you go to camp?
[07:24]
B
Yes, I did. And I, when I was younger, I did not like it.
[07:30]
A
How young?
[07:31]
B
Those, it's those tween years where you're like, you don't have your driver's license yet, you don't have real agency and you can't, I mean you can get a job when you're 15, but you can't get like a real job because again, you don't have a driver's license. So anyways, there was a summer where. And I was always looking to do like the, I wanted to do the mature thing. I wanted to like always be doing the thing that was like more adulty. And there was, and it was right around the time that I had, you know, I had really not wanted to want to be an actress because that seemed so predictable. Cliche. Yeah, like my mom was an actress. I was in this family where, you know all of this film and it was like, that would be just so predictable and you know, I'm gonna be different and unique and I'm going to go do other things anyways. I was feeling all that at the same time that I couldn't deny that I really, really loved telling stories and I loved performing, if you will. But it was more in, in the way of telling stories. And I thought, oh fuck it. Like I'm, I can't get a real job this summer. I'm old enough to not be homesick if I go away and I'm going to look for like an arts program to go. And I had a friend that was similarly interested, although she was interested in music. And we decided to go to a six week long program at a school that. And it was going to be all, you know, music and the, and singing and everything else. And I had the time of my life because the campus was a really nice, like it almost felt like I was at college again, checking the box of I'm adult.
[09:08]
A
Yeah.
[09:09]
B
And I went and it was like whatever it was, it was my, it was what I thought it was. It was what I thought it could be. It was like I was in the movie Fame. Like we were dancing on tables at lunchtime and singing and people were meeting up to, you know, scene study and choreographed dances. And there were, you know, it was just. It wasn't campy. It was more like. It was more like college, I guess. But it was sleepaway camp, and I had the best time ever, and I learned so much. And I really did enjoy not having to get into a car and not having to go, you know, far. And you had all your meals together and these were your ride or dies. And the craziest thing was my camp best friend that came out of that was named Jenny, and she lived. I lived in Los Angeles, and she lived in Rye, New York, which was very exotic to me. And we stayed friends for so long and followed each other through all sorts of different parts of life and then kind of lost touch. And I was watching TV because everybody was saying that they really liked this show called Jane the Virgin. It was. I don't know when it was, but it was a while ago. And I'm watching it and I'm looking at the titles, and I was like, jenny. And Jenny Snyder Ehrman is. Has become. And now we're in touch again. But she is, like this huge producer and showrunner. She did Jane the Virgin. She does Matlock now. She's. She's incredible. And she's. She's still my best friend from Camp Jenny. And we.
[10:35]
A
Oh, my God, that's so cute.
[10:37]
B
We're so cute girls.
[10:39]
A
Wait, I do have a comment on this, because I do think, okay, I. Growing up, I did not do sports. I did theater. There is something if you are a theater kid or you or you're wondering what it's like that, like, I know people make fun of it, but that, like, we're in theater together and it's like, you're all yummy with everybody. It's real.
[11:01]
B
I know it's real.
[11:03]
A
I don't know what it is that. That chemistry of, like, theater kids together doing it.
[11:08]
B
It's the vulnerability. Just if the vulnerability is so bonding because you don't even have to call
[11:15]
A
performing in front of, like, what is that? Like, we're all, like. And we're all, like, so supported. I mean, it really is because you're cracking yourself open.
[11:23]
B
You're cracking yourself open, and you're trying, you know, you're daring greatly. You're. You have. You in your mind, even though you probably not really. You have. You have. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose, so you just go. Go for it. And when you go for it, if you make a mistake, chances are you're Gonna learn. And if you don't make a mistake, you are on top of the world. Like the feeling that you have when you, like for an athlete, I mean, I don't. For a gymnast, it's like sticking the landing. Or when you know you've done a scene, you know, that you've been working on in your class and then you do it and you see the audience have the reaction that you wanted to have. Like, there's, there's no greater high. You're just like, you're electric. You just feel so.
[12:07]
A
Yeah.
[12:07]
B
Incredible. And so I think that when you have that with a group of people and you're doing it day in, day out, you just. How could you not be very bonded?
[12:18]
A
Okay, I take it back. That would have been my favorite camp. Screw the canoes, screw the zipline.
[12:23]
B
Yeah.
[12:24]
A
Camilla, little Camilla would have loved theater camp.
[12:27]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I actually think Poppy would love theater
[12:31]
A
and I would love that.
[12:33]
B
That's why she would.
[12:35]
A
She's the right age now. Yeah.
[12:37]
B
Yeah.
[12:38]
A
Well, a little, like, I do think that little bit older, like, tweeny age
[12:41]
B
that you're saying you're gonna have to anti Camilla. This one. You're gonna have to pull her aside
[12:46]
A
and be like, so I'm gonna listen. I got pop star's cell phone number. I do think American camps, it's like, this is just my opinion. People are gonna come at me in the comments. It's. They're too long. You don't need a six week away from mom and dad camp.
[13:01]
B
Okay. But here's what I think is actually where you can discern what your path should be. And it goes. This is going to go back to Hayden. I, I think that anyone who goes to sleepaway camp, any child that goes to sleepaway camp, I believe that it actually has to start with that child wanting to go. And if your child wants to go, then I think you try it. And you don't pick the seven week camp. You pick the one week sleepaway camp, the two week sleepaway camp. And I have so much respect for the ones that are like, yeah, I'll go and not even know anyone. Right. But I also think it might be nice to go with a friend, you know, have a little camaraderie.
[13:44]
A
There's no way in hell Hayden's going without a friend. No.
[13:48]
B
Yeah. Okay.
[13:48]
A
So she's not that kid, which is amazing. I was not that kid either.
[13:53]
B
If they want to go, I think that sleepaway camp actually, and, and it's expensive. I think that it's a gift. I genuinely think that it's a gift if you want to go and. And your parents, you know, can. Can afford to send you. I think it's a gift. I just. It's not a gift that I want.
[14:12]
A
Okay, well, Josie wanted to go.
[14:15]
B
She wanted. She didn't want to go. She wanted to go. She. She. There was a lot of flip flopping and then she got really excited about it. And then, you know, notoriously, the first week is, you know, laden with homesickness. And from what I hear from other people, you're just meant to push through that and then the second week gets better. It was meant to be something I don't.
[14:35]
A
Are you allowed to like. Right. See, this is what I don't like to like. I would love her to like, be able to take a little apple watch or something, but they're like no communication. We only send mail by pigeons. It's like, why. Why would I like to know that they're fine? I think it would help.
[14:51]
B
Oh, no, I don't think it does. I think that, that. I think it keeps. That it's. It keeps that tethering to home. And I think when you're at camp, you kind of got to be. You got to. You can't go half camp. You got to go full camp. You are.
[15:04]
A
But I feel like you are full camp. Like, if you had gotten to be able to call your mom every night, you might have enjoyed sleeping.
[15:11]
B
No, I think, I think that when you're truly homesick, having the connection again actually makes the longing worse.
[15:19]
A
I don't know. I think, I disagree. I think I would feel better if I was like, I just get to talk to her later tonight so that you could. Because sometimes you need the reassurance, right? And you need you. I would need. I would have needed my mom to be like, come on, you got this. Don't worry. There's nothing going on at home. It's super boring. See how you're. You know.
[15:37]
B
But maybe.
[15:37]
A
But maybe that's also a kid to kid. A kid to kid basis situation right now. Goes for a sleepover. She needs to. She needs to have a little nighttime call with me. Even if it's like, hey, it's going great. Gotta go.
[15:52]
B
Yeah.
[15:52]
A
It's like she still needs to give me a little call.
[15:56]
B
Yeah. Well, I'm just gonna stick with. I'm stick with my original sentiment. If your kid wants to go to camp, then I think they go to camp.
[16:03]
A
They go full.
[16:03]
B
And then they're gonna come back and say, Whether or not they liked it or not. And there's. I know plenty of kids who you go for the first, you know, little moment, and they become hardcore campers, and then they want to go every year, and then they, you know, end up staying the whole summer. And for a lot of parents, they. I think it's kind of a little bit bananas that, like, think about your school year. Like, you. There's a place that the kids go all day long, and in the summer, you. You just don't. Like.
[16:35]
A
What are your. If.
[16:36]
B
If your parents have jobs, what are you supposed to do? And, I mean, I know what I did. I was like, you know, I stayed in AC and I watched the soap operas with my grandma and ate Haagen Dazs out of the carton. That's what I did.
[16:49]
A
Finally dream.
[16:52]
B
Exactly. Why would you try and pry me from that situation and send me love? That campground was the best. Pulling the beautiful little Montel Williams, restless little. You are the father as the World Turns. All of it. And then we wrap up the evening with Wheel of Fortune. It was amazing.
[17:08]
A
Incredible.
[17:09]
B
I could not go outside all day long.
[17:11]
A
I'm not homesick at Grandma's.
[17:13]
B
This is never.
[17:15]
A
But I can tell you something.
[17:16]
B
Yeah.
[17:17]
A
It's a pr. It's. It's. It's. You're fortunate to go to Grandma's.
[17:20]
B
Yes.
[17:20]
A
I did not have Grandma's to go to, and a lot of people do not have a Grandma's to go to.
[17:25]
B
This is my point. So camp becomes the thing that you go to. And if you love it, I say, great. And if you don't. I don't know. I have to say. And Luke was bringing this up the other day, because Luke was like, I don't remember. I don't remember you, like, giving me a big choice in this matter. It was like I was going to camp, and it feels like Josie's got all these choices. Like, typical.
[17:43]
A
Well, what was Joyce's. What. What happened with Josie? So she went to camp, and she was only able to communicate with the pigeon letters. And then what happened?
[17:52]
B
And it's.
[17:52]
A
Well.
[17:53]
B
And they also have it set up. It was. It's a. It's a. What was a wonderful camp. They did the best they could. She was just. She was just homesick. She was homesick, and she couldn't. And then it was a little bit like.
[18:03]
A
Did you get. Did you get a response that was
[18:05]
B
like, I miss you. I love you. I miss you. I want to come home. I'm so sorry, because I know I was so heartbre. Because it was like, I know that, you know, that you all put so much time and effort and money into this, but I'm just so very, very sad and very, very missing my family. And I just really don't want to be here anymore. So if you could get here in, like, I'm about 30 minutes, that would be great. I'll be standing by the front, and I'll pack up my bunk. I'll pack up my bunk, and we'll be ready to go. It was totally a we ride it dawn moment. I mean, she was calling and she was. And. And. And. And I. You know, you. You sort of, like, check in with yourself, and you're like, listen, you have to let your kids be in tough stuff and look at them and be like, just like what you said your mom would say, like, you got this. You can do this. Right? It's. I believe in you. You can do this.
[18:50]
A
I have a question about this, because I think probably there's a ton of people going through this this summer. You get the first letter. The first letter is like, hey, great. Loved it. Been here an hour. I'm over it. Come and get me now. How many times do you let the letters that are like SOS that signal to the sky? Like, how many times are you.
[19:09]
B
Well, that was what was different about this camp than the. The others that Luke and even Poppy went to, which was that they did not have the connectivity piece. They didn't have the app where you could, like, you know, this one was where, you know, if there was a picture taken of her at camp, they did the facial recognition, and you and the app, you'd get a notification like, there's a new picture of Josie. And then we'd all sit around pissed.
[19:31]
A
In every picture, was she just looking at the camera?
[19:33]
B
Well, that was the funny part. We all looked at her and we were like. And she was doing her smile, but. But it was definitely her happy ish. It was not happy. It was happy ish. But then we were sort of like, it's gonna. It's gonna get better. It's gonna get better. And. And then it. It just didn't. And. And I think that there was a little bit of, you know, she went with friends who were sort of having a similar experience of wanting to go home. And then it was a little bit like. Then once they think it's.
[20:02]
A
It went down like dominoes.
[20:03]
B
It did. Because once they think it's possible, then you're. Then your hoes, and it's almost impossible As a parent, to be like, I see your extreme sadness and homesickness and I'm going to ignore it.
[20:17]
A
Yeah.
[20:18]
B
Or I'm just gonna say, no, I'm not picking you up.
[20:20]
A
Or.
[20:20]
B
It was really. I have to say, it was really tough. I mean, you know, it was, it was tough. And it was just. Yeah, it was tough. And then, and then of course, I got myself laughing because I was like. Then it became, you know, like, was I hang gliding in? Was it, Was it a. Was I. Was I going to chop her in? Was I going to. It was going to be a full. Under the, under the COVID of night extraction.
[20:41]
A
Tom Cruise.
[20:42]
B
Yeah, I was, I was mission. I was like, I was, I was going to. Yeah. Yeah.
[20:46]
A
How many days did she last?
[20:47]
B
8.
[20:49]
A
That's a long time to. If you're, I think if you're not feeling it by day eight.
[20:53]
B
Yeah.
[20:53]
A
Like it's extraction time.
[20:55]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
[20:55]
A
That seems really fair.
[20:57]
B
Yeah. And my. And she's just a sweet, sweet, sweet human. And she actually really is very in touch with her feelings and she was so happy. And she got in the car and I'm sitting in the front and we had like the full download and we're processing. And. And I did say to her, and I had said to her the whole time, I was like, listen. Oh, that's what I did. I did send her a letter. That was the firm. The firm. The firm mom letter that was listening. Courage is being scared and doing it anyway. So being scared is not the thing to. To worry about right now. Be scared. That's okay. Be scared. Find your courage. Do it anyway. And don't worry about the time or money or whatever. Like, that's, that's our, that's the adult's job. And we, we do things and we, we manage ourselves and we create opportunities and then they. Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. So don't worry about that. Like, check. Don't worry about us. Find your courage and then do me a favor. Don't worry about getting through the next three weeks. Worry about getting. Or think about getting through tomorrow. And like, tomorrow do something a little different. Spend a little time with someone else instead of that. Like, try. Because I think what you're trying to say to your kids is try. Like, I don't. Because I only care that you try. And, and, and, and the kids are put in all these different situations where, you know, all day long. And it's hard. I think it's hard to be a kid. You know, like all the negotiations and your brain developing at warp speed and everything else. And it's like, it's. It's hard to be a kid, and it's hard to navigate so much, you know, all at once and. And be so young. And so I just sort of invited her to understand that it was hard to do it anyway, and then. And then see how she felt. Um, and. And also I think that the thing that is really important for me or that I hope that. That the kids know, is, like, you're given these opportunities, but the art, like, love and care of you doesn't. Isn't actually focused on the outcome. You know, like, if you get first or tenth, there'll be a different feeling that comes with those two placements. Right. For you, but it won't. It won't be for me. You know, like, that's. You tried. So anyways, it was just. It was. She tried, and it wasn't her thing. And so we. In the car, we. We talked a lot about that. Because it didn't. Because I didn't want it to be. I didn't want her to walk away feeling like she failed.
[23:32]
A
Because in just a week.
[23:34]
B
Yeah. Well, I was focused on, like, that's a success.
[23:38]
A
Totally.
[23:38]
B
Anyways, she got over it. Then we were like, you know, listening to, like, you know, Up With People rock and having a great old time. And then I hear her little voice in the back seat say, mom, can you turn down the music for a second? And I said, yeah. And I turned down the music, and I turned around, and her little face, she is. Oh, my God, it'll make me cry. She's full weeping. And she looks at me and she says, I'm just so happy to be home. I was like, well, I'm really happy. I mean, because of course. I mean, like, of course I missed her, but it wasn't. It was. It wasn't about me. This was about her.
[24:18]
A
So I do have to say that, like, your. Your home life and her home life with her sisters and her brother, like, it is so yummy and cozy.
[24:31]
B
Yeah.
[24:31]
A
That it would be hard to leave. I understand why it'd be hard to leave that.
[24:36]
B
Yeah.
[24:37]
A
And.
[24:38]
B
And she's a family girl, you know, she really loves.
[24:41]
A
Yeah.
[24:41]
B
You know, and she's the. She's the youngest, so she's a little caboose. She, like, you know, and she's always. She's. She's definitely. Definitely like the. The. The sort of like, unassuming mayor. Like, she. She just, like, she knows everything because she's sitting there I mean, absolutely. Like, whenever anybody's like, where's the. She's like, here it is. Because she's sitting there watching and looking and listening, and she's, like, figuring out her. Her how. How to slide in. And we're in a weird summer because the biggers are starting to, like, bigger, and they want to go do other stuff, and it's not where she's at. And so wait, when.
[25:17]
A
When does, like, the urge to go to sleepaway camp, like, stop. Is Poppy, like, no, I'm not going to sleep away camp.
[25:23]
B
Poppy went to sleepaway camp one time in her life. It was the most miserable experience of her life, according to her. She hated every single second of it. She cried herself. Wait, what's the pot?
[25:32]
A
Now I have to have the Poppy story. Eve, too. Did Eve go?
[25:36]
B
Eve was like. Eve's Eve. It was like. Was it my favorite? No. Was it my least favorite? No. Like, Eve just is like, I got it done.
[25:47]
A
Yeah, I checked.
[25:48]
B
I checked the box.
[25:49]
A
What was poppy story?
[25:51]
B
Um.
[25:53]
A
Oh, God.
[25:55]
B
Poppy went with Eve. And it was a camp in Maine. And by the way, I, I, I. There's nowhere in Maine that's easy to get to. Have you ever tried to go to Maine?
[26:06]
A
No, but I want to. Like, in my dreams. I'm in Maine because it's one of
[26:10]
B
the most beautiful places on the planet. And I think probably the reason it remains the most beautiful one of the most beautiful places on the planet is because we haven't ruined it by a bunch of people going there because it's nearly impossible to get to.
[26:22]
A
Okay?
[26:22]
B
So you have to take, like, a plane to a bus, to a ferry,
[26:25]
A
to a. Oh, my God.
[26:27]
B
Paddleboard to a canoe to it. It's unbelievable. Yes. Yes. It was Covid. It was like the girls were gonna go up to camp. They were gonna have a normal summer because it had been so not normal. And they went. And Poppy, like, almost. Honestly, Poppy, from the minute we got there, was allergic to camp. She went to go put on the little. The life preserver that you had to wear to go from the boys camp, where we dropped Luke off, to the girls camp. And it was over her shirt. And during the course of the eight minute boat ride, her entire body burst out in hives. And she was smiling because she was so excited about this idea of camp. But at the same time, her body was like comedy movie. It had been lit up. It was on fire with hives. And I'm like, you know me. So I'm like, it's okay.
[27:17]
A
We're Gonna.
[27:18]
B
We're gonna fix problems. We got this, like, no big deal. There's a camp store. We're gonna get a new T shirt. Must be your T shirt that she's worn 95 times in her life and not made her a little better. Yeah. We're just gonna be fine. It'll be fine. So I. And I'm still. And I know I'm about to leave her, which is going to be hard. And so we take off the. Anyways, it was the first day of 10 days, maybe 14 days that she did not like. So. Yeah. So. And then we. But it was wild because we. We picked her up and she had all these amazing stories, and then the day after she got home, she was like, actually, everything I told you when you picked me up was just because I was so happy to be home, and I hated every single second of that. And I will never go back to sleepaway camp in my life. And we were like, oh, my.
[27:58]
A
Like, she was riding the high. Yeah. Of being picked up. So she was like, we did this and this. And then it's. Overnight it sunk in that she absolutely hit a camp.
[28:06]
B
Or it was like Stockholm syndrome. Like, maybe they just convinced her that it was, like, it was great. But then once that wore, the real story was there, and she was like, absolutely not. So maybe Josephine was like, you know, my sister's not a sleepy person. Maybe I'm not a sleepwear person. So anyways, all I know is sleepaway camp turned into. For the.
[28:25]
A
The Capshaw kids.
[28:27]
B
These. These. No, these little Gavigans do not want to do that.
[28:31]
A
They don't wanna. They don't want to do it.
[28:33]
B
Yeah, they're good. So what do you think about Hayden? I mean, does that. Does that inform anything for you?
[28:38]
A
I mean, I think that. To be honest, I think she'll have a similar experience. I think that she really wants to go. I think she likes the idea of going. And she's heard stories. I think the reality of it is going to be really tough for her. Both my kids are big homebodies, too. They love being home. They love being cozy. They love, like, a movie night with the pot. You know, like, there's love, the family and the dogs, and they miss it. All right. I. I find this such an interesting conversation because sleepovers. Just sleeping over at a friend's house, which we all did when we were younger, has become such a polarizing topic of, like, are you now letting your kids do it or not? And what I've seen online, which is like a Little confusing to me is that there's people that are like, absolutely, I do not let my kid have a sleepover, but I'll let them go to sleepaway camp. Like, I'm okay with that. My, my problem is actually the opposite. With families that I think that I really know and trust me, I'm okay. But with sleepaway camp, that's where my like safety paranoia alert as a parent, like, goes off. There's so many kids there. There's counselors. How do they know everyone's safe? Like background checks are they doing on these five year olds? It's less whether she is having fun. It's whether, like, God, you just brought
[29:52]
B
out so much anxiety in me. Yes, yes.
[29:54]
A
All those things that, that's the part that like, I stress about.
[29:57]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. I don't. Do you think that our parents ever thought about safety and sleepovers?
[30:06]
A
I don't think my, I don't think my parents thought about safety and sleepovers. My mom definitely thought about safety in that way, but I just didn't. I think the sleepover thing just didn't register. And I understand, but I find it interesting when I see people saying, and it's a lot, it seems like a lot of people that are like, sleepovers, absolutely fucking not. But sleepaway camp, like, that's fine.
[30:26]
B
So interesting.
[30:27]
A
Yeah, I, with.
[30:28]
B
I remember when Luke started having sleepovers. I think I only did it once, but I remember asking like, if there were weapons in the house.
[30:37]
A
That's not a weird thing.
[30:38]
B
Yeah.
[30:38]
A
I like to go in there like I'm the FBI and I'm like, do
[30:43]
B
you do like a pre visit?
[30:44]
A
I don't. I, I'm. I can sniff it out in the moment. You know what I mean? Like, Hayden's showing up with a sleeping bag. I'm like casing the joint.
[30:51]
B
I just see you in like extreme oversized Ray Bans and like arms crossed. Just kind of strolling through the helm.
[30:59]
A
Strolling through, strolling through. If I could bring my own flashlight to do one of these.
[31:03]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would.
[31:05]
A
Yeah, I, I understand. For your own safety, to make that choice for your family. I get that.
[31:11]
B
Well, I guess. What do you all think?
[31:13]
A
But this is when I'm like, then this transfers to me to like sleepaway camp. Like, okay, there's like, am I trusting these, what, 18 year old kids? I know with my kids.
[31:24]
B
Like, but then I'm like, there's danger everywhere. And if you, if I, if I go down that rabbit hole, then I'm not Then my. Then I'm not doing anything, and neither are any of my kids 100%, and I can't do that.
[31:35]
A
I have to. This is what I have to reckon with as a parent because I'm like, I don't want to take away the potential of her having this incredible time at sleepaway camp.
[31:44]
B
Yeah, yeah.
[31:45]
A
And. And I'm definitely choosy about sleepovers, and they've been fewer and far between. And I think it's different when you're, like, a teenager and you're, like, hanging out and you're 16 and you're going over at your friend's house. But I don't. I also don't want her to miss out on things because I've decided that I'm an investigator in Dateline and I need a case to join out.
[32:08]
B
Right, right, right, right. I know, I know. I. I don't know. I don't know. When you start pulling your.
[32:14]
A
I genuinely want to hear from everybody in the. In this because I, I think I need, like, a collective conversation on it because I don't know what's up, what's down, what's right, what's wrong, where. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't tell if I'm paranoid or if, like, camp really is, like. No, that is the safer way to, like, for kids to go have fun in a sleepover situation.
[32:36]
B
Yeah. I don't know. Well, and I think the sleepaway. The very compelling part of sleepaway camp in this day and age is that it's screen free. It's. That it's, it's, you know, that you're not. That you're not. You're gonna have a chance to just be and have fun. And it's all baked in there on one campus. And so all of your opportunities for fun are relational and with real people. And that's really exciting to some kids. I just went on a roller coaster of anxiety with talking about all those different variables. And your dateline really is showing through.
[33:10]
A
I know, I know.
[33:11]
B
Dateline is like.
[33:12]
A
But, like, these are the things that I think about. I'm riding at dawn to case the joint of the camp.
[33:17]
B
Like, well, here we are.
[33:19]
A
Here we are. I mean, we did. This is us. It's been a roller coaster, you guys. Listen, I'm. I'm letting people in on, like, my own parenting insecurities on this, and I. And I don't want to prevent her from not having these experiences. And especially when she's telling me she's ready. I don't I truly don't think she's ready, but I think next summer she could be ready. And I'm gonna have to, like, seriously just tequila my way through it.
[33:46]
B
No, you're gonna find a really great place, and you're gonna. And you're gonna ask all the questions, and there are some, you know, some really wonderful sleepaway camps, and you're just gonna do. You're gonna do your homework, and you're gonna be the great mom that you are, and you're gonna set her up for success, and then you're gonna see what happens.
[34:01]
A
Yeah.
[34:03]
B
And there might be.
[34:04]
A
Maybe I need, like, a girls trip with you at the same time. I drop her off, and then, like, we head to, like, somewhere, and, you know, I'm with you, and I can. You can unspiral me.
[34:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I. I remember. I'm. I'm sure I've talked about this with you before, but I remember maybe it was like, 10 or 12 years ago, this book came out called how to Raise an Adult, and it rocked me because it really is. It's an incredible book, but it's really about, like, even though there are babies and there are. There are little. Our little beings, and there are children forever, they're. We're raising them to be adults and to be on their own. And so there are all these just, like, threshold moments where they have an opportunity to test themselves and then be able to trust themselves more because they know they can do something that's hard and. Or separate. And. And. And. And that's wonderful. And that's what you really want, you know, for them.
[35:12]
A
Yeah, I love it. I just remembered that, like, this is part of, like, helping them fly from the nest. Talk to me about this next summer.
[35:21]
B
Just remind me. I know it.
[35:23]
A
Everyone, we want to hear from you guys. I actually, really, seriously, like, I need to hear from you guys. I need to hear from the collective. I want to hear your stories. I want to know how your kids are feeling when they come back. Are you guys having the same, like, spiraling that I'm having when they leave or the thoughts of them leaving, or,
[35:39]
B
by the way, if we've got some campers out there, please tell us all the ways in which camp has made your life.
[35:46]
A
Yes.
[35:46]
B
Wonderful, horrible, positive, negative, and neutral.
[35:49]
A
Give it to us 100%.